OT: Why Consoles are Killing Sims (for now)
Joe M.
PC shooter) is $49.99 US for the Xbox. I think this explains why so many
game publishers and developers are clamoring to capture a share of the
console market and abandoning (temporarily) niche PC markets.
Serious Sam is an 18 months old PC game that sold for $19.99 from DAY ONE on
the PC (it currently sells for $6.99). Yes, $19.99 was it's HIGHEST price
ever. The sequel, Serious Sam: The Second Encounter, was released a few
months ago and sold for $19.99. Serious Sam represented a simple, fun, good
looking shooter. It may lack the depth and length of $40-50 PC shooters,
but at $20 it was a well priced value.
I choked on my morning coffee when I stumbled upon the $49.99 pre-order
price for an old PC port than never sold for more than 20 bucks and could be
bought today on the PC for about the cost of a Star Bucks Venti Caramel
Macchiato and 2 Krispy Kreme donuts. This partly explains why Papyrus is
going console, the West Bros. couldn't get WSC published (Total Immersion
Racing is a $50 Xbox title that WSC "coulda' been"), Falcon 5 will never see
the light of day, etc.
I'm not claiming this is the death of our hobby (flight/racing). It is
another frustrating obstacle that will reduce the frequency and quantity of
PC simulations.
PS-I'm also warning Xbox owners to save $43 and buy SS for the PC. It will
run on a fairly old system so don't worry about hardware requirements.
--
Joe Marques
Larry
It's no secret that the high-end side of the PC industry is totally game
driven. If the desire for PC gaming whithers, then one has to wonder what
will become of the PC itself...
-Larry
"Joe M." <NoEma...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
news:MjZk9.329189$AR1.14...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Krofun
Once the product was released, then the price was dropped. I've pre-ordered
a couple of games this way and that has been the case. The games I ordered
dropped to $34.99 when released, different than the pre-order price given.
Not sure if this is the way it works or not, just an observation.
"Joe M." <NoEma...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
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Scott©
"Joe M." <NoEma...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
news:MjZk9.329189$AR1.14...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> PC shooter) is $49.99 US for the Xbox. I think this explains why so many
> game publishers and developers are clamoring to capture a share of the
> console market and abandoning (temporarily) niche PC markets.
>
> Serious Sam is an 18 months old PC game that sold for $19.99 from DAY ONE on
> the PC (it currently sells for $6.99). Yes, $19.99 was it's HIGHEST price
> ever. The sequel, Serious Sam: The Second Encounter, was released a few
> months ago and sold for $19.99. Serious Sam represented a simple, fun, good
> looking shooter. It may lack the depth and length of $40-50 PC shooters,
> but at $20 it was a well priced value.
>
Actually, Serious Sam for the Xbox is both versions of the game.
Scott B. Husted
because you only have 2 or 3 configurations maximum to worry about.
With PC games, I would think, you have all the worries about drivers and
compatibility issues.
That being said, I haven't owned a console since the original Sega Genesis.
--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ# 4395450
http://www.Husted.cc
"Joe M." <NoEma...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
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MadDAWG
The girlfriend liked Zelda.
MadDAWG
MiGMan
--
Regards
Peter "MiGMan" Inglis - mig...@migman.com
MiGMan's Flight Sim Museum - www.migman.com - subscribe -
www.migman.com/subscribe.htm
Combatsim.com members get a special deal! -
www.migman.com/ref/offers/combatsim.htm
HOTAS COUGAR preferred retailer - www.migman.com/hw/control/tm/cougar.htm
"Joe M." <NoEma...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
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> I'm posting to my two favorite sim groups after seeing that Serious Sam (a
> PC shooter) is $49.99 US for the Xbox. I think this explains why so many
> game publishers and developers are clamoring to capture a share of the
> console market and abandoning (temporarily) niche PC markets.
<<snip>
Simon Robbins
Larry <no...@none.com> wrote in message
news:0wZk9.34244$IL6.2...@news2.east.cox.net...
> If the desire for PC gaming whithers, then one has to wonder what
> will become of the PC itself...
Placed into a square case with Microsoft stamped on the outside...
Si
callsignviper
"Scott©" <som...@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:sUZk9.1323$p03.754@fe01...
>
> "Joe M." <NoEma...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
> news:MjZk9.329189$AR1.14...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> > I'm posting to my two favorite sim groups after seeing that Serious Sam
(a
> > PC shooter) is $49.99 US for the Xbox. I think this explains why so
many
> > game publishers and developers are clamoring to capture a share of the
> > console market and abandoning (temporarily) niche PC markets.
> >
> > Serious Sam is an 18 months old PC game that sold for $19.99 from DAY
ONE on
> > the PC (it currently sells for $6.99). Yes, $19.99 was it's HIGHEST
price
> > ever. The sequel, Serious Sam: The Second Encounter, was released a few
> > months ago and sold for $19.99. Serious Sam represented a simple, fun,
good
> > looking shooter. It may lack the depth and length of $40-50 PC
shooters,
> > but at $20 it was a well priced value.
> >
>
> Actually, Serious Sam for the Xbox is both versions of the game.
>
From Babbage's website: Serious Sam Gold (XBox) = $49.99 with ETA 12
November 2002.
From Babbage's website: Serious Sam Gold (PC) = $29.99 with ETA 21 January
2003.
From Babbage's website: Serious Sam (Original(PC)) = $6.99 available now.
Why would I pay $30 OR $50 when I can buy BOTH games (PC version) for under
$22 ($6.99 (SS1) + $14.99 (SS2))? Actually I think I bought both versions
when they were on sale for $9.99 each (several months apart, of course) so
it was slightly less than $20.
Makes me wonder about the mentality of the average console game buyer. Have
they no concept of bargain hunting and/or simply refusing to pay exorbitant
prices for products?
--
callsignviper
The truth is out there. You just have to look in the right places and ask
the right questions.
Dave Cook
news:an29ac$355$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
Yeah, it's called the XBox. Didn't Uwe say someone is running Unix on one
already?
- Dave
Dave Cook
news:3M2l9.424350$kp.12...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
>
> Makes me wonder about the mentality of the average console game buyer. Have
> they no concept of bargain hunting and/or simply refusing to pay exorbitant
> prices for products?
Heh. The only concept is how they can get mom or dad to whip out the credit
card.
- Dave
Dusty Rhodes
>
> Makes me wonder about the mentality of the average console game buyer.
Have
> they no concept of bargain hunting and/or simply refusing to pay
exorbitant
> prices for products?
>
>
> --
> callsignviper
LMAO, Well I look at the prices I paid for the sims I had to pay for and I
agree. UNTIL........I look at the thousands of dollars I have spent to
upgrade my computer and peripherals in the name of flight simming. Now who
is the intelligent one? LOL
Dusty Rhodes
magnulus
"callsignviper" <callsignviper_r-e...@attbi.com> wrote in
message news:3M2l9.424350$kp.12...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
>
Have
> they no concept of bargain hunting and/or simply refusing to pay
exorbitant
> prices for products?
>
>
Some console gamers don't have a PC capable of playing those kinds of
games.
I have a PS2, but I pretty much keep it around just to play Japanese games
(Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo 3) and occasionally a fighting or lightgun
game. For any game that's available on the PC, I get the PC version because
it's usually cheaper and will look better on a monitor.
PositiveG
them" mentality.
The average console gamer is reported to be 27, so asking for money from mom
at that age would be quite sad. Not sure where that stat came from, but
I've seen it several times.
I would imagine that the 'smart' console gamer would A) First rent the game,
then B) make a purchasing decision based on that. Depending on the console
they'll probably go right to Z) Burn it!
If they decide to buy, they tend to pay more (well at least for Xbox games)
for new releases. 1 year old Xbox games are around 1/3rd to cost of new
(example PGR and Azurik, etc).
Now keep in mind that the console games "system" probably cost 1/5th to
1/10th that of the PC gamers.
====================================================
"Dave Cook" <da...@NOSPAMcook.name> wrote in message
news:zR2l9.3685$Rt5.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
: "callsignviper" <callsignviper_r-e...@attbi.com> wrote in
:
:
Goy Larsen
Dave Cook wrote:
>
> Yeah, it's called the XBox. Didn't Uwe say someone is running Unix on one
> already?
There is some sort of competition going on about installing Linux on it,
can't remember the particulars though, was some restrictions as to how
much you could modify it
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--
Milhouse
prize. The big prizes, though, are out there for those who can do it with
relatively minimal mods - the biggest is for someone who can make a bootable
CD that will install it without a single hardware mod to the XBox.
Milhouse
"Goy Larsen" <sa...@metatus.com> wrote in message
news:3D94CD4B...@metatus.com...
Philster
play sims after N2003 comes out. Maybe that can finally convince me to put
money in some real racing action :)
--
Philippe "Philster" Sergerie
"Joe M." <NoEma...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
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Charles Doane
callsignviper wrote:
> "Scott©" <som...@somewhere.com> wrote in message
> news:sUZk9.1323$p03.754@fe01...
>
>>"Joe M." <NoEma...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
>>news:MjZk9.329189$AR1.14...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
>>
>>>It may lack the depth and length of $40-50 PC
>>> shooters, but at $20 it was a well priced value.
>> Actually, Serious Sam for the Xbox is both versions of the game.
> (snip)
>
> From Babbage's website: Serious Sam Gold (XBox) = $49.99 with ETA 12
> November 2002.
>
> From Babbage's website: Serious Sam Gold (PC) = $29.99 with ETA 21 January
> 2003.
>
> From Babbage's website: Serious Sam (Original(PC)) = $6.99 available now.
>
>
> Why would I pay $30 OR $50 when I can buy BOTH games (PC version) for under
> $22 ($6.99 (SS1) + $14.99 (SS2))? Actually I think I bought both versions
> when they were on sale for $9.99 each (several months apart, of course) so
> it was slightly less than $20.
>
> Makes me wonder about the mentality of the average console game buyer. Have
> they no concept of bargain hunting and/or simply refusing to pay exorbitant
> prices for products?
Makes me wonder about the PC gamers, myself. Have they no concept of the
value of game time? The reason that PC games are cheaper (in some cases,
not in all as PSX games are often in the $10 range now) is that PC games
are largely a do-it-yourself proposition. The $20 you save isn't any
bargain if it takes an hour to get the game working. The PC gamer does a
whole lot of the work himself; work which console games take care of.
The last game I bought for XBox was Sega GT 2002, along with the Mad Catz
MC2 wheel setup (nice wheel, btw). From the time I got home with the
goods to the time I was playing the game with the wheel working perfectly
was just about 10 minutes flat. You can't do that sort of thing on a
PC at all. If you put a wheel on a PC then you get to install the drivers,
play 20 questions with "Install Shield", and then you get to do the same
thing with the new game. Moreover, there's no guarantee that the game will
even work with that peripheral after you've spent the better part of an
hour jumping through hoops.
I quit PC gaming long ago. The last PC game I ever bought was Duke Nukem3D,
and after fighting with that game for days trying to tweak every setting
just right, something snapped. I bit my lip, tasted blood and promptly
smashed my keyboard (I hated that keyboard anyway). I will not ever fight
to make my entertainment work again. I want entertainment that works for
ME, not the other way around.
Every other form of entertainment gives immediate gratification.
Would anyone put up with a music CD that ran Install Shield? HECK NO!
Would anyone put up with a movie DVD that installed drivers? HECK NO!
Most folks don't even like renting videotapes that haven't been rewound.
Console games are part of the same line of reasoning. Put them in and
they work just like they're supposed to, no muss, no fuss, no grief.
It's PC gamers who are the nutcases paying for recreation and bringing
home aggravation. I don't call that any bargain at all. You save your
$20, PC gamers. You'll be needing that money for therapy.
--
Oh, oh. Here come those crazy aliens again. Help me, Elllleeot!
Help me get home! (Atari 2600 E.T. manual, worst game ever made)
magnulus
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3D94FCE...@mindspring.com...
> Every other form of entertainment gives immediate gratification.
>
> Would anyone put up with a music CD that ran Install Shield? HECK NO!
> Would anyone put up with a movie DVD that installed drivers? HECK NO!
> Most folks don't even like renting videotapes that haven't been rewound.
> Console games are part of the same line of reasoning. Put them in and
> they work just like they're supposed to, no muss, no fuss, no grief.
>
So what you are saying is that console gamers are lazy and/or retarded?
> It's PC gamers who are the nutcases paying for recreation and bringing
> home aggravation. I don't call that any bargain at all. You save your
> $20, PC gamers. You'll be needing that money for therapy.
>
I can't remember the last time I had any big problems with my computer
getting games to run. It must have been over a year ago. All that stuff
you are brining up is old, tired arguements.
Bob Perez
<snip history of problems running PC games>
> I quit PC gaming long ago. The last PC game I ever bought was Duke
Nukem3D,
LOL well no wonder all you can recount are horror stories of playing PC
games, ROFL! You might want to consider waking up to the 21st century and
trying out the 8 or 9 versions of Windows that have come out since then.
Life is pretty good on the PC gaming side now. Sheesh. (rolls eyes)
--
Bob Perez
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they
quit playing."
- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
Charles Doane
magnulus wrote:
> "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3D94FCE...@mindspring.com...
>
>>Every other form of entertainment gives immediate gratification.
>>
>>Would anyone put up with a music CD that ran Install Shield? HECK NO!
>>Would anyone put up with a movie DVD that installed drivers? HECK NO!
>>Most folks don't even like renting videotapes that haven't been rewound.
>>Console games are part of the same line of reasoning. Put them in and
>>they work just like they're supposed to, no muss, no fuss, no grief.
> So what you are saying is that console gamers are lazy and/or retarded?
No, I'm saying that they want to have FUN! You've heard of that, right?
FUN? Where you enjoy what you're doing? Have a pleasant experience?
There's NOTHING pleasant about fighting with a setup program that can't
even detect what freakin' sound card you have. Why in the heck should
I have to know that I'm running a Soundblaster 32 with an IRQ of 7 and
an IO address of 220? I WANT TO PLAY A GAME. I'm on my free time, I'm
looking for something to do, and playing "how well do you know your PC's
config" is not my idea of a game. I WANT TO PLAY A GAME!
No, I don't want to fill out a survey.
No, I don't want to register online.
No, I don't want to install Adobe Acrobat reader.
No, I don't want to receive e-mail offers.
No, I don't want to get a trial subscription to a sucky magazine.
I WANT TO PLAY THE DAMNED GAME! Is that too much to ask? I want to
take the disc, put it in the drive, and PLAY. It's such a simple
request. Consoles have been doing that for over a decade now, but
can PC's do that? NO! They insist on pissing me off.
>>It's PC gamers who are the nutcases paying for recreation and bringing
>>home aggravation. I don't call that any bargain at all. You save your
>>$20, PC gamers. You'll be needing that money for therapy.
> I can't remember the last time I had any big problems with my computer
> getting games to run. It must have been over a year ago. All that stuff
> you are brining up is old, tired arguements.
That's total B.S.
I just bought a new monitor (plug and pray, hehehe) for my new PC. The
MONITOR (Viewsonic) came with an install disc. This is SEVEN YEARS after
Windows 95 promised Plug-and-Play, and EASY things like VGA monitors still
come with driver discs. Even worse, the "autorun" didn't even work.
Apparently Windows XP is such an upgrade that silly things like autobooting
discs are a thing of the past. I had to look at the autorun file to see
which program the damned install wanted to run, run it, and then I had to
know that Windows XP is basically a sequel to Windows 2000 which is basically
a sequel to Windows NT. Otherwise I wouldn't have known to grab the drivers
for NT. THAT SUCKS. Plus it had to restart the machine. That's PATHETIC.
I'm not technologically illiterate. Far from it, I'm a telecommunications
field technician and I'm used to fighting with broken machines all the time
(and winning), but I get PAID to do that because it's work. I don't want to
do that when I'm trying to PLAY.
If a console game worked like that the console wouldn't sell worth beans.
It's unbelievable. I can put a game into my Sega Saturn running a Hitachi
SH2 at 28 Mhz and be playing in less than a minute. I can't get this
stupid AthlonXP2000+ (supposedly better than a Pentium 4 2Ghz) to do
anything new that quickly, and it's SUPPOSED to be 70 times faster? I sure
don't see it. PC's are junkpiles next to consoles, because they're so
bogged down by all their crapola that they don't get the rubber to the road.
It's like driving a Ferrari on metal rims. It doesn't matter what's under
the hood if the power ain't getting to the user.
Charles Doane
Bob Perez wrote:
> "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3D94FCE...@mindspring.com...
>
> <snip history of problems running PC games>
>
>>I quit PC gaming long ago. The last PC game I ever bought was Duke
>
> Nukem3D,
>
> LOL well no wonder all you can recount are horror stories of playing PC
> games, ROFL! You might want to consider waking up to the 21st century and
> trying out the 8 or 9 versions of Windows that have come out since then.
> Life is pretty good on the PC gaming side now. Sheesh. (rolls eyes)
I just got to play with Windows XP. On this machine, I mean the one I'm
posting on. It sucks. I still haven't fixed my Logitech trackball (dumb
box thinks it's a PS/2 mouse), it took me great effort to get the drivers
working for my "plug and play" monitor, and I had to install my scanner.
This is 2002. Windows 95 was supposed to fix all of that. Yeah, there
has been 8 or 9 versions of Windows since then, and I've used most of
'em. There's not supposed to BE any installation anymore. So why does
everything still come with installation discs? It's pathetic.
I can honestly say that I've never had a console game ask me if I wanted
a full or a custom install. They tend to say "Press Start".
I've never had a console say "new hardware detected, would you like to
install drivers for it?". That is bar none the stupidest damned question
ever. It's not there for the LOOKS, you dumb freaking box! For a console
to match that stupidity, it would have to say "new game detected, would
you like to play it?".
PLAY IT! JUST GO AHEAD AND PLAY IT! There's nothing that pushes my
buttons like stupidity. If it's THERE, it's because I put it THERE,
so I want it THERE. Is that logic too hard to follow? Why can't a
PC get that? Consoles do. My Xbox doesn't ask about new hardware when
I plug in the joystick for a few rounds of DOA3. It just does it.
I hate PC's. Inefficient pieces of crap get beat all to hell by
consoles with less than a quarter of their power.
Lange_666th
all the different PC setups that are possible so the developers wouldn't had
to worry about that anymore.
--
Lange,
666th Black Brigade
http://www.666th.com
ICQ: 15439346
"Scott B. Husted" <mkt...@riegelfcu.org> wrote in message
news:fJ_k9.1395$Ye5.5...@nnrp1.ptd.net...
Lange_666th
Does your console run Office programs?
Does your console run drawing programs?
Does your console run music programs?
Does your console run wordprocessers?
Does your console run database programs?
Does your console run mail programs?
Does your console run video editing programs?
etc....
Nope, it doesn't, that's why it's a console.
And if you want it to do, you have to hook a keyboard up, a printer, and all
the other stuff.
And tell me then, what do you have? Yes A PC !!! with all the nice
installing driver problems etc...
There is a little effort to make when you want to run all at once.
PS:
Why should i buy a console if i can get it to run on my PC?
And even more, why should i buy a PC if i could run it on my console.
Would having one of those not be simpler then having them both?
--
Lange,
666th Black Brigade
http://www.666th.com
ICQ: 15439346
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3D94FCE...@mindspring.com...
>
>
Ruud van Gaal
<lange@pandora.-scratch_this-.be> wrote:
>Is that not what DirectX was designed in the first place? As an interface to
>all the different PC setups that are possible so the developers wouldn't had
>to worry about that anymore.
It failed there by growing a new version each version, and you still
have a lot of hardware-detection to do anyway.
But that's the glory of PC's. It's designed that way, to get more
progress, but at a bigger cost.
Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/
Ruud van Gaal
<lange@pandora.-scratch_this-.be> wrote:
...
>PS:
>Why should i buy a console if i can get it to run on my PC?
>And even more, why should i buy a PC if i could run it on my console.
>Would having one of those not be simpler then having them both?
I have both, and they both have their place. PC's for a kind of games
(like racing) and consoles for other types of games (jump & run).
The consoles are great since they're less fuss, and they play on my TV
while I sit on my couch.
The PC is nicer when it comes to more cutting edge stuff; it's more
flexible, but also it gives more headaches when trying to get a game
to run as you want.
It's the same as having an oven and a microwave. Or is that a bad
example? ;-)
Charles Doane
Lange_666th wrote:
> Agree but then you also have to consider this...
> Does your console run Office programs?
> Does your console run drawing programs?
> Does your console run music programs?
> Does your console run wordprocessers?
> Does your console run database programs?
> Does your console run mail programs?
> Does your console run video editing programs?
> etc....
You have to consider this...
Does anybody do that at home?
> Does your console run Office programs?
Silly me, I run those at the office. That's why they're Office programs.
> Does your console run drawing programs?
If it weren't for taking screenshots of error messages at work, I could
honestly say that I've never run Paint in the last five years.
> Does your console run music programs?
Silly me, I have a stereo system to play music the old-fashioned way.
I even play 8-tracks on it. Music programs can't do that.
> Does your console run wordprocessers?
I see that your spell check is running fabulously. I don't WANT a
word processor for a toy.
> Does your console run database programs?
Actually, yeah, they do. That's how they manage game saves.
> Does your console run mail programs?
No, there's a mailbox on my porch which handles my mail needs.
There's a whole bunch of nice people in the Post Office to do
that. The PC is just a source of spam.
> Does your console run video editing programs?
Oh, there's something I do every day <sarcasm>. Who in the
heck runs video editing programs for home use? Other than
kiddie porn there's no real purpose for it.
> Nope, it doesn't, that's why it's a console.
Which is exactly what I want. The RIGHT tool for the RIGHT
job. That's what consoles are.
> And if you want it to do, you have to hook a keyboard up, a printer, and all
> the other stuff.
If it was just hooking them up, I wouldn't be bothered. It's the
seemingly endless patches, registrations, and configurations that
rip the fun right out of anything associated with a PC.
> And tell me then, what do you have? Yes A PC !!! with all the nice
> installing driver problems etc...
> There is a little effort to make when you want to run all at once.
I don't deny that this is a PC. I'm about to shoot the damned thing
with my classic 1962 J.C. Higgins Model 20 12-Gauge shotgun if it comes
up with one more error message or another stupid question trying to PISS
ME OFF. This is NOT a "little effort". I had my Xbox playing games
inside of 10 minutes of opening the console's package. You can't get a
PC to do that on a bet to save your life.
> PS:
> Why should i buy a console if i can get it to run on my PC?
That's because you have to ask "if". There's no "if" in console
gaming. It's going to run, no "if" about it. I don't like "if".
Like Yoda said, "There is no Try. There is only Do, or Do Not".
To Hell with "if". I don't play with "if". My world is black
and white, and I don't accept maybe's or if's or try's. It works
or it doesn't. "IF" is the same as "doesn't" in my house.
> And even more, why should i buy a PC if i could run it on my console.
> Would having one of those not be simpler then having them both?
Simpler is the bailiwick of the console. There's no good reason to
game on a PC. It's like racing garbage trucks. They're great at
getting garbage, but they suck for most anything else.
Schooner
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3D95D0DE...@mindspring.com...
Bob Perez
> > LOL well no wonder all you can recount are horror stories of playing PC
> > games, ROFL! You might want to consider waking up to the 21st century
and
> > trying out the 8 or 9 versions of Windows that have come out since then.
> > Life is pretty good on the PC gaming side now. Sheesh. (rolls eyes)
> I just got to play with Windows XP. On this machine, I mean the one I'm
> posting on. It sucks. I still haven't fixed my Logitech trackball (dumb
> box thinks it's a PS/2 mouse), it took me great effort to get the drivers
> working for my "plug and play" monitor, and I had to install my scanner.
Charles, trust me: it's you and your hardware, it's not the system. My
routine is simple: I walk out of a store with a game, I take it home, pull
the CD out of the box, pop it into my CD tray, the autoplay comes up, I
click on "Install", and a few minutes later it's installed and I'm playing.
I have no idea what kind of hardware you're using that's giving you
problems, but if the last PC game that you bought was Duke Nukem 3D then I
can only imagine ... come into the 21st century, bud, it's nice up here!
> There's not supposed to BE any installation anymore. So why does
> everything still come with installation discs? It's pathetic.
Who says there's not supposed to be any installation? What mythology is
this? You prefer being limited to the access times of reading data off of a
CD drive, or the volume limitations of a cartridge? Not me, I prefer
installing all of the "moving parts" to my much, much faster hard drive and
enjoying this benefit every time I play the game subsequently instead of
your approach of saving the one-time installation time and then paying the
price every time you play the game. Think about it, then go out and upgrade
and get back to enjoying some real games. ;-)
--
Bob Perez
"You are so clueless, you couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season
in a field
full of horny clues even if you smeared your body with clue musk and
did the clue mating dance." -- Edward Flaherty
Mitch_A
telecom feild techs ;-) PC's are still cumbersome to use compared to a
console but technical ability isn't a prerequisite as it was just a few
short years ago (as you describe). In the world of XP and compatible
hardware all you need to do is stick the darn CD in the drive and viola,
it's running. If you expect your ancient Sound Blaster to work without
issues then your expectations far outweigh reality.
When and IF the console games reach the quality of current PC games with all
of the required accessories, as in a KB, internet connection, wheels/pedals,
hotas's, etc etc then maybe I'll plunk down my $150. Till then there isn't
any comparison of the two platforms.
I guess the bottom line is you just arent *hardcore* about the sims you use.
I would do whatever it takes to run a quality realistic Racing sim. If that
means jumping through hoops then thats what I'll do. Up till this point
there have been *NO* titles for any console that would give me any reason to
switch.
I'll steal your analolgy...
>It's like driving a Ferrari on metal rims. It doesn't matter what's under
> the hood if the power ain't getting to the user.
Mitch
When you can play Nascar 2002 on your Sega Saturn in under a minute then
come talk to us :-)
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3D95B59F...@mindspring.com...
Chris von Seggern
> I just got to play with Windows XP. On this machine, I mean the one I'm
> posting on. It sucks. I still haven't fixed my Logitech trackball (dumb
> box thinks it's a PS/2 mouse), it took me great effort to get the drivers
> working for my "plug and play" monitor, and I had to install my scanner.
I have no problems with most games under XP. The only ones that give me any
trouble whatsoever are older games that were designed and published long
before XP was even announced.
> This is 2002. Windows 95 was supposed to fix all of that. Yeah, there
> has been 8 or 9 versions of Windows since then, and I've used most of
> 'em. There's not supposed to BE any installation anymore. So why does
> everything still come with installation discs? It's pathetic.
You honestly expect *any* operating system to come with "out of the box"
drivers for every hardware device you could possibly stick in the machine?
Please. The only alternative is to provide drivers with the hardware, most
of which is now very easy to install and works well.
> I can honestly say that I've never had a console game ask me if I wanted
> a full or a custom install. They tend to say "Press Start".
Because you don't *install* a console game. It sits on the disc and runs
from there. Totally different way of doing things.
> I've never had a console say "new hardware detected, would you like to
> install drivers for it?". That is bar none the stupidest damned question
> ever. It's not there for the LOOKS, you dumb freaking box! For a console
> to match that stupidity, it would have to say "new game detected, would
> you like to play it?".
Once again, when was the last time you installed new hardware on a console?
> PLAY IT! JUST GO AHEAD AND PLAY IT! There's nothing that pushes my
> buttons like stupidity. If it's THERE, it's because I put it THERE,
> so I want it THERE. Is that logic too hard to follow? Why can't a
> PC get that? Consoles do. My Xbox doesn't ask about new hardware when
> I plug in the joystick for a few rounds of DOA3. It just does it.
Because console controllers are designed to send the same inputs to the
console, no matter what their physical form. You ever notice that your Xbox
racing wheel (if you have one) has two pedals that map to (usually) the
triggers, and still has six buttons marked the same as the standard gamepad?
The funny thing is that you people are the same ones who bitch, whine and
moan when their PC does something *without* asking. Which way do you want
it?
> I hate PC's. Inefficient pieces of crap get beat all to hell by
> consoles with less than a quarter of their power.
Oh, boy. Here we go with that one again. A console is a SINGLE-USE
machine. It plays games. That's what it does. PC's play games, browse the
web, manage spreadsheets, write documents in any of dozens of formats,
maintain and/or query databases, handle your email, write code, provide
scheduling, design machinery, prepare taxes, read newsgroups, and thousands
of other tasks, usually without much of your intervention. They aren't
optimized and designed solely for gaming like consoles are.
I own an Xbox. I like it. I have nothing against consoles. But to bash
PC's for not being consoles is just plain stupid. Many people don't feel
like dealing with the occasional headaches you get from PC games, which is
one reason they play console games. That's fine. You yourself sound like
somebody who would be better off with an Xbox and a Webtv.
Chris
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002
Chris von Seggern
>
>
> Lange_666th wrote:
> > Agree but then you also have to consider this...
> > Does your console run Office programs?
> > Does your console run drawing programs?
> > Does your console run music programs?
> > Does your console run wordprocessers?
> > Does your console run database programs?
> > Does your console run mail programs?
> > Does your console run video editing programs?
> > etc....
>
> You have to consider this...
> Does anybody do that at home?
Yes, plenty of people do. Join the 21st century.
> > Does your console run Office programs?
>
> Silly me, I run those at the office. That's why they're Office programs.
The irrelevancy of this argument aside, PC's are often used as tools in the
home as well as the office. They aren't *just* for gaming.
> > Does your console run drawing programs?
>
> If it weren't for taking screenshots of error messages at work, I could
> honestly say that I've never run Paint in the last five years.
So your usage pattern determines what everybody else needs too? I use Paint
all the time on my home PC.
> > Does your console run music programs?
>
> Silly me, I have a stereo system to play music the old-fashioned way.
> I even play 8-tracks on it. Music programs can't do that.
You still have an 8-track player? You *are* a technophobe, aren't you?
> > Does your console run wordprocessers?
>
> I see that your spell check is running fabulously. I don't WANT a
> word processor for a toy.
That's the whole point, genius. A PC isn't just a toy like a console is.
It's a TOOL as much as a toy.
> > Does your console run database programs?
>
> Actually, yeah, they do. That's how they manage game saves.
When was the last time you ran Access, SQL Server, or an Oracle database
from your Xbox?
> > Does your console run mail programs?
> No, there's a mailbox on my porch which handles my mail needs.
> There's a whole bunch of nice people in the Post Office to do
> that. The PC is just a source of spam.
Effective as it is, the USPS can't get a message to the other side of the
globe inside of five minutes. And if you know how to take a few simple
protective steps, you can stop most of the spam.
> > Does your console run video editing programs?
> Oh, there's something I do every day <sarcasm>. Who in the
> heck runs video editing programs for home use? Other than
> kiddie porn there's no real purpose for it.
I can name two people (one friend and one relative) who do this, just off
the top of my head. Just because *you* don't run this kind of software
doesn't mean other people don't find it useful.
> > Nope, it doesn't, that's why it's a console.
>
> Which is exactly what I want. The RIGHT tool for the RIGHT
> job. That's what consoles are.
This much is true. If all you want is to play games, consoles are the way
to go. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, if you want full
access to the widest range of gaming experiences, PC gaming is where it's
at. Some genres (like flight sims, for example) are pretty much nonexistent
in the console world.
> > And if you want it to do, you have to hook a keyboard up, a printer, and
all
> > the other stuff.
>
> If it was just hooking them up, I wouldn't be bothered. It's the
> seemingly endless patches, registrations, and configurations that
> rip the fun right out of anything associated with a PC.
The only registered piece of software on my PC is XP itself. Everything
else is legally-licensed gaming, productivity and utility software that I
have no need to register. Patching is just a fact of life with PC's, but it
really isn't that big a chore.
> > And tell me then, what do you have? Yes A PC !!! with all the nice
> > installing driver problems etc...
> > There is a little effort to make when you want to run all at once.
>
> I don't deny that this is a PC. I'm about to shoot the damned thing
> with my classic 1962 J.C. Higgins Model 20 12-Gauge shotgun if it comes
> up with one more error message or another stupid question trying to PISS
> ME OFF. This is NOT a "little effort". I had my Xbox playing games
> inside of 10 minutes of opening the console's package. You can't get a
> PC to do that on a bet to save your life.
Sure I can. I do it all the time. Here's an idea. Instead of shooting the
PC, why not just package it up and ship it to me? I'd be glad to take the
horrible Satanic evil nasty beats-you-up-and-takes-your-lunch-money thing
off your hands.
> > PS:
> > Why should i buy a console if i can get it to run on my PC?
>
> That's because you have to ask "if". There's no "if" in console
> gaming. It's going to run, no "if" about it. I don't like "if".
> Like Yoda said, "There is no Try. There is only Do, or Do Not".
> To Hell with "if". I don't play with "if". My world is black
> and white, and I don't accept maybe's or if's or try's. It works
> or it doesn't. "IF" is the same as "doesn't" in my house.
Oof. I hope you don't have children. Their lives must be hell. And
console games *can* puke. I've had my Xbox hang on me before. It's rare,
but it's not impossible.
> > And even more, why should i buy a PC if i could run it on my console.
> > Would having one of those not be simpler then having them both?
> Simpler is the bailiwick of the console. There's no good reason to
> game on a PC. It's like racing garbage trucks. They're great at
> getting garbage, but they suck for most anything else.
Hardly. Like I said before, there are some genres that just don't exist for
consoles. Especially in the sim world, PC's just plain can do things that
consoles can't. Consoles are great for 90% of the game types that exist,
but they aren't the be-all and end-all of electronic entertainment.
Lange_666th
--
Lange,
666th Black Brigade
http://www.666th.com
ICQ: 15439346
"Schooner" <scho...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:skkl9.102704$C8.2...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
Lange_666th
Now i don't have to reply anymore. You've said it all.
If you ever need some backup, just call me. LOL
Schooner
"Lange_666th" <lange@pandora.-scratch_this-.be> wrote in message
news:fMll9.136284$8o4....@afrodite.telenet-ops.be...
Wolfram Kuss
>all the different PC setups that are possible so the developers wouldn't had
>to worry about that anymore.
This does not work. During the testing of the last "Battle of Britain"
we did, I can not reproduce about half or even more of the problems
single testers have. As a developer you always loose much time because
you have to investigate things that occur only on one computer.
Also, I once had a problem where the gfx card could not "zoom". I was
sure it was a dumb programming mistake of me, but there was only one
line that could be the culprit (out of about 600 000) and I looked at
that for hours. I finally posted on Microsofts DirectX newsgroup. To
my surprise, the Microsoft supporte engineer told me that maybe the
gfx card is not able to zoom by a factor of two. I have a GeForce 3.
It is one of the easy DirectX commands that I would a expect a Voodoo
I / Riva TNT to do. He was right.
Bye bye,
Wolfram.
PositiveG
"Mitch_A" <naman...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:wTkl9.45$jd7.17...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
: When and IF the console games reach the quality of current PC games with
all
: of the required accessories, as in a KB, internet connection,
wheels/pedals,
: hotas's, etc etc then maybe I'll plunk down my $150. Till then there
isn't
: any comparison of the two platforms.
:
Only $150. Why not wait till they're $50 then?
I guess I'll wait till PC are 25 cents before I upgrade... ;-)
Allan Mayer
<gdo...@mindspring.com> writes:
>Lange_666th wrote:
>> Agree but then you also have to consider this...
>> Does your console run Office programs?
>> Does your console run drawing programs?
>> Does your console run music programs?
>> Does your console run wordprocessers?
>> Does your console run database programs?
>> Does your console run mail programs?
>> Does your console run video editing programs?
>> etc....
>
>You have to consider this...
>Does anybody do that at home?
Well as a matter of fact, I DO !!!!!!!
And I run all the games I want just fine..........
And Win XP runs just fine here, no crashes, CTD's/blue screens
IL 2, and Falcon 4 SP3, and Delta Force 2 all run without any
screwing around, other than I would want to do on a console.
(they have their own cheat codes, etc...)
Allan
http://members.aol.com/Thetabat/hello.html
"Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
Mitch_A
have been trying to hit since the Atari 2600.
"PositiveG" <positiv...@hotmail.com-snip> wrote in message
news:iaol9.102745$C8.2...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
PositiveG
--
====================================================
"Mitch_A" <naman...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:XYol9.918$TH5.20...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
: I meant the console's average price. That seems to be the price point
: >
: >
: >
: >
:
:
Sam Altersitz
<gdo...@mindspring.com> attempted to sound witty, but instead came out
sounding like this... :
>That's total B.S.
>I just bought a new monitor (plug and pray, hehehe) for my new PC. The
>MONITOR (Viewsonic) came with an install disc. This is SEVEN YEARS after
>Windows 95 promised Plug-and-Play, and EASY things like VGA monitors still
>come with driver discs. Even worse, the "autorun" didn't even work.
>Apparently Windows XP is such an upgrade that silly things like autobooting
>discs are a thing of the past. I had to look at the autorun file to see
>which program the damned install wanted to run, run it, and then I had to
>know that Windows XP is basically a sequel to Windows 2000 which is basically
>a sequel to Windows NT. Otherwise I wouldn't have known to grab the drivers
>for NT. THAT SUCKS. Plus it had to restart the machine. That's PATHETIC.
Most monitors are pllug and pray, moron. However, if you have drivers
for them ,then you can use your video card and the monitor to their
best abilities. Without the drivers, you often can't set the refresh
rate on monitors above 60 hz, for example.
>If a console game worked like that the console wouldn't sell worth beans.
>It's unbelievable. I can put a game into my Sega Saturn running a Hitachi
>SH2 at 28 Mhz and be playing in less than a minute. I can't get this
>stupid AthlonXP2000+ (supposedly better than a Pentium 4 2Ghz) to do
>anything new that quickly, and it's SUPPOSED to be 70 times faster? I sure
>don't see it. PC's are junkpiles next to consoles, because they're so
>bogged down by all their crapola that they don't get the rubber to the road.
>It's like driving a Ferrari on metal rims. It doesn't matter what's under
>the hood if the power ain't getting to the user.
Well, most of the bogging down in PCs comes from one place: Windows
and its bloatware. Add in that multiple other programs like to set
themselves up to auto run as soon as your PC starts, and you're losing
resources (not even taking into account how horrible Windows is at
managing resources to begin with).
Try using a different OS and see if the same bog down issues happen.
Granted, you won't find as much program support on the other OSes, but
9 out of 10 times you will find that the programs run smoother, and
the entire PC runs smoother all the time without God damn Explorer
crashing every 5 seconds.
It really doesn't matter how fast the PC is when it has Windows
running on it. Hell, as son as I get my Linux box up and running, I
won't ever need to use this Windows one ever again, unless a game I
want to play doesn't have Linux drivers.
------
Sam
Knowledge is power.
Power corrupts.
Study hard.
Be evil.
-Saying on a friend's T-shirt, author unknown to me.
Sam Altersitz
>You have to consider this...
>Does anybody do that at home?
Yes, many people do do all these things at home.
>
> > Does your console run Office programs?
>
>Silly me, I run those at the office. That's why they're Office programs.
Silly me, I suppose that's why millions of people also use them at
home for things like finishing up work (my mother makes spreadsheets
for scheduling shifts at her job on her PC, for example), or even
*gasp* just to write stuff for fun!
While most Office programs don't have a real need at the normal home,
Word or another word processor is something that every computer should
have. Hell, half the kids in college couldn't survive without a word
processing application on their PCs/laptops. I truly doubt the
libraries would let them stay in them all night to write term papers
and such, especially with thousands of other students waiting to use
those same PCs..
And yes, simple word processing programs are part of office suites.
> > Does your console run drawing programs?
>
>If it weren't for taking screenshots of error messages at work, I could
>honestly say that I've never run Paint in the last five years.
Consoles have had their drawing programs as well. Mario Paint is an
example of one. It's older, but it was on the SNES and used *gasp* a
mouse!
> > Does your console run music programs?
>
>Silly me, I have a stereo system to play music the old-fashioned way.
>I even play 8-tracks on it. Music programs can't do that.
But music programs can make lives easier. Setting up personalized
playlists without the hassle of having to remove and insert the data
medium the music is stored on is something I use extensively while I
am on my PC.
Add in the editing programs you can get, and practically anyone can
start mixing their own music. And for a hell of a lot less than going
and buying DAT players, tapes, and mixing boards and such.
> > Does your console run wordprocessers?
>
>I see that your spell check is running fabulously. I don't WANT a
>word processor for a toy.
Didn't the Saturn have a word processing program for it? I know you
could also set up the DC to run Word as well. And both consoles had
keyboard peripherals, as well as mice.
> > Does your console run database programs?
>
>Actually, yeah, they do. That's how they manage game saves.
No, that's not how they manage game saves. They use flash RAM (for
memory cards) or a hard drive (in the Xbox's case). Database programs
are what you use when you are setting up servers, and they are what
you access each time you go to a web page. Programs like SQL, ISS,
etc. Moron.
> > Does your console run mail programs?
>
>No, there's a mailbox on my porch which handles my mail needs.
>There's a whole bunch of nice people in the Post Office to do
>that. The PC is just a source of spam.
Both the Sega Saturn and the Sega Dreamcast could and did run email
programs, as well as web applications. Try not to let it destroy you
that consoles are able to handle these simple things as well, Eugene.
> > Does your console run video editing programs?
>
>Oh, there's something I do every day <sarcasm>. Who in the
>heck runs video editing programs for home use? Other than
>kiddie porn there's no real purpose for it.
Maybe for making home movies to send to grandma and grampa? Perhaps
for just fun? There's loads of cheap editing tools out there. Next
you'll say that home video cameras are also something that no one
uses.
>> Nope, it doesn't, that's why it's a console.
>
>Which is exactly what I want. The RIGHT tool for the RIGHT
>job. That's what consoles are.
They're the right tools for their specific purposes. You can't have
an Xbox, however, and expect to run PS2 or GC software on it. As
closed source as Windows may be, consoles are even more closed source.
At least on the PC they can make the same game run no matter what sort
of hardware you have under the hood, and in many cases now the OS is
mattering less and less as well.
>If it was just hooking them up, I wouldn't be bothered. It's the
>seemingly endless patches, registrations, and configurations that
>rip the fun right out of anything associated with a PC.
No one said PCs always had to be fun, Eugene. Gaming PCs should be
fun. Dedicated servers shouldn't be fun, they should be reliable and
able to run mission critical applications at all times. Hardly any
fun involved in running mission critical applications, however.
>I don't deny that this is a PC. I'm about to shoot the damned thing
>with my classic 1962 J.C. Higgins Model 20 12-Gauge shotgun if it comes
>up with one more error message or another stupid question trying to PISS
>ME OFF. This is NOT a "little effort". I had my Xbox playing games
>inside of 10 minutes of opening the console's package. You can't get a
>PC to do that on a bet to save your life.
I can get games up and running on my PC in under 5 minutes of opening
the game's CD. Maybe if you got some better hardware, or maybe a
little actual knowledge of how you should install things, you wouldn't
have these problems.
>Simpler is the bailiwick of the console. There's no good reason to
>game on a PC. It's like racing garbage trucks. They're great at
>getting garbage, but they suck for most anything else.
Sure there is. You're just too closed minded to accept it. I can't
imagine how horrible playing certain games that are on the PC online
are going to play on Xbox Live, for example (Counter-Strike, Unreal
Championship, Star Wars Galaxies, etc.).
For some games, there is simply no better platform than the PC. For
others, there is no better platform than a console. For FPS, sims,
and RTS as well as MMOGs, the PC is the best choice. For platformers,
sports games (normal and extreme), and RPGs, the consoles are the way
to go. (Note: I say RPGs on consoles because I don't like the way
most PC RPG games play--and I don't mention racing because I can't
stand those types of games, but each person's MMV of course.)
Joe M.
"Silly me, I run those at the office. That's why they're Office programs".
Office/MS Works at HOME. You're disagreeing for the SAKE of disagreeing.
Not doing much for your credibility here.
You also sound like Charlie Brown instead of Charlie Doane. Lucy keeps
pulling the ball away at the last second; nothing works for poor Chuck. ;0)
I can count on one hand the number of technical glitches I've had with games
over the last few years. The last year with WinXP has been the best PC
gaming year ever for me. Yes, PC's CAN be a royal pain in the ass. I still
think much of it boils down to user error. What else explains my
experience, good fortune? And the same for my friend who has NO problems?
The only guy I know with PC gaming heartaches is a self-proclaimed expert
who doesn't know his ass from a hard drive. User error is the biggest cause
of troubles and sound fundamentals with a LITTLE luck is the best path to
low stress PC gaming.
I guess for every great experience like mine, there has to be an experience
like yours to even things out. ;0)
--
Joe M.
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3D95D0DE...@mindspring.com...
Charles Doane
Sam Altersitz wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 06:58:55 -0700, Charles Doane
> <gdo...@mindspring.com> attempted to sound witty, but instead came out
> sounding like this... :
>
>
>>That's total B.S.
>>I just bought a new monitor (plug and pray, hehehe) for my new PC. The
>>MONITOR (Viewsonic) came with an install disc. This is SEVEN YEARS after
>>Windows 95 promised Plug-and-Play, and EASY things like VGA monitors still
>>come with driver discs. Even worse, the "autorun" didn't even work.
>>Apparently Windows XP is such an upgrade that silly things like autobooting
>>discs are a thing of the past. I had to look at the autorun file to see
>>which program the damned install wanted to run, run it, and then I had to
>>know that Windows XP is basically a sequel to Windows 2000 which is basically
>>a sequel to Windows NT. Otherwise I wouldn't have known to grab the drivers
>>for NT. THAT SUCKS. Plus it had to restart the machine. That's PATHETIC.
>
>
> Most monitors are pllug and pray, moron. However, if you have drivers
> for them ,then you can use your video card and the monitor to their
> best abilities. Without the drivers, you often can't set the refresh
> rate on monitors above 60 hz, for example.
What monitor made in the last decade can't pull off better than 60 Hz?
I think default has been 75 Hz since back in the Windows 3.1 days.
If the PC would PICK A VIDEO CHIPSET and stay with it the PC would be
a lot more viable of an option for gaming, but as it is, it's horrible.
The power PC gamer goes and buys himself a $300 video card, the latest
and greatest, and then what? He finds that there's not but two or three
games on the planet that support the thing. So he's screwed.
The budget PC gamer goes and buys himself a $50 video card, one which
will run most of the games, and then he sees something like Doom III
coming down the pike and his video card won't support that. So he's
screwed too.
No matter which route a PC gamer takes, he's gonna get shafted.
>>If a console game worked like that the console wouldn't sell worth beans.
>>It's unbelievable. I can put a game into my Sega Saturn running a Hitachi
>>SH2 at 28 Mhz and be playing in less than a minute. I can't get this
>>stupid AthlonXP2000+ (supposedly better than a Pentium 4 2Ghz) to do
>>anything new that quickly, and it's SUPPOSED to be 70 times faster? I sure
>>don't see it. PC's are junkpiles next to consoles, because they're so
>>bogged down by all their crapola that they don't get the rubber to the road.
>>It's like driving a Ferrari on metal rims. It doesn't matter what's under
>>the hood if the power ain't getting to the user.
>
>
> Well, most of the bogging down in PCs comes from one place: Windows
> and its bloatware. Add in that multiple other programs like to set
> themselves up to auto run as soon as your PC starts, and you're losing
> resources (not even taking into account how horrible Windows is at
> managing resources to begin with).
I've always believed that to be the main reason there's never been a
good fighter on a PC. All of the software drivers cause far too much
latency to ever hope to play any game with 100 millisecond or less
timing windows.
> Try using a different OS and see if the same bog down issues happen.
> Granted, you won't find as much program support on the other OSes, but
> 9 out of 10 times you will find that the programs run smoother, and
> the entire PC runs smoother all the time without G%^ damn Explorer
> crashing every 5 seconds.
I wouldn't mind doing that except for the fact that practically all
documents I work with tend to be in a Microsoft format (ie. DOC or
MDB) and I need to view those.
> It really doesn't matter how fast the PC is when it has Windows
> running on it. Hell, as son as I get my Linux box up and running, I
> won't ever need to use this Windows one ever again, unless a game I
> want to play doesn't have Linux drivers.
Which probably means that all of your old games are junk and you won't
be able to play them. Which is par for the course on a PC. I don't
know why people even bother claiming that PC's are backwards compatible.
They really aren't, and the more specialized the app the less likely it
will be supported in the future. Games are pretty specialized apps when
it comes right down to it, so they're among the least likely to work in
the future.
magnulus
"Bob Perez" <b...@DELETETHISplanetperez.com> wrote in message
news:upbmhmi...@news.supernews.com...
> Who says there's not supposed to be any installation? What mythology is
> this?
The irony is, of course, the XBox cache's data to the hard disk, in some
cases large amounts. The difference between this and "installation" is
purely semantics.
magnulus
> When and IF the console games reach the quality of current PC games with
all
> of the required accessories, as in a KB, internet connection,
wheels/pedals,
> hotas's, etc etc then maybe I'll plunk down my $150. Till then there
isn't
> any comparison of the two platforms.
>
Consoles already have keyboards, but I can say from experience they are
not that useful like on a PC. You can get racing wheels for a console, too.
I'm not a big racing fan, but I have Gran Turismo 3 for my PS2 that I bought
on sale and I like playing it. I just use a gamepad.
The graphics are great, but they are a lot more jaggy than what I'd get on a
PC and sometimes my eyes get tired of looking at the murky image.
No HOTAS on a console, yet. I can't see a sim with that steep of a
learning curve ever selling to a mass market audience. Playstation had a
port of Gunship 2000 that was great, though, and the gamepad had alot of
shift functions built in.
> When you can play Nascar 2002 on your Sega Saturn in under a minute then
> come talk to us :-)
>
You can run it on PS2, and I assume there's an XBox version (I rented it,
wasn't real thrilled with PS2 version, too much jaggies). The PC version is
pretty much the same game, BTW.
Charles Doane
Sam Altersitz wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 08:55:10 -0700, Charles Doane
> <gdo...@mindspring.com> attempted to sound witty, but instead came out
> sounding like this... :
>
>
>>You have to consider this...
>>Does anybody do that at home?
> Yes, many people do do all these things at home.
I seriously doubt that. Nobody is buying $300 video cards for word
processing and spread sheets.
>>>Does your console run Office programs?
>>
>>Silly me, I run those at the office. That's why they're Office programs.
>
>
> Silly me, I suppose that's why millions of people also use them at
> home for things like finishing up work (my mother makes spreadsheets
> for scheduling shifts at her job on her PC, for example), or even
> *gasp* just to write stuff for fun!
Most people actually finish up work AT work. That's what the place is
for. I'm sure employers just LOVE having employees finish up the job
off the clock using their own resources, but it's a very bad idea and
it opens a window of potential liability. For example, if the employer
*did* pay her for her time making those spreadsheets, then those belong
to the employer, and they're on HER computer. What happens if they
part ways (she quits, gets fired, laid off, etc.) and the employer
wants his property back (or destroyed)? Think that could get ugly?
There's an old saying about mixing business and pleasure. I don't.
> While most Office programs don't have a real need at the normal home,
> Word or another word processor is something that every computer should
> have. Hell, half the kids in college couldn't survive without a word
> processing application on their PCs/laptops. I truly doubt the
> libraries would let them stay in them all night to write term papers
> and such, especially with thousands of other students waiting to use
> those same PCs..
>
> And yes, simple word processing programs are part of office suites.
If the kids couldn't survive in college without a word processor then
they shouldn't BE in college until they can. That's the reason there
are so many nearly illiterate people coming out of colleges with a
diploma that should rightfully be awarded to their laptop PC.
It's like handing a calculator to a kid before they learn to do math
on paper or in their head. It turns them into useless slugs unless
a machine is around to help them.
>>>Does your console run drawing programs?
>>
>>If it weren't for taking screenshots of error messages at work, I could
>>honestly say that I've never run Paint in the last five years.
> Consoles have had their drawing programs as well. Mario Paint is an
> example of one. It's older, but it was on the SNES and used *gasp* a
> mouse!
Yeah, I remember that one. It was the Nintendo Bargain Bin speed king
until Hey You Pikachu dethroned it for the title of quickest clearance
Nintendo title ever made. Nobody liked it.
>>>Does your console run music programs?
>>
>>Silly me, I have a stereo system to play music the old-fashioned way.
>>I even play 8-tracks on it. Music programs can't do that.
>
>
> But music programs can make lives easier. Setting up personalized
> playlists without the hassle of having to remove and insert the data
> medium the music is stored on is something I use extensively while I
> am on my PC.
Oh. My. GAWD.
You would probably just fall over dead if you were actually faced with
a record player then. How lazy can you be? And wasn't it you just
one post ago saying that you wanted to run Linux because opening a
bunch of apps bogs down the machine?
I never set up personalized playlists. I like music arranged by
people who know what they're doing. I'm not a music arranger.
A CD is not so much work that it's going to break my arm changing one
every 40 minutes or so. I don't even need to do that. I've got a
6-CD cartridge changer, so that's good for 4 hours and then I just
plug in another cartridge for another 4 hours. I've got three of
them so I could run 12 solid hours of music changing cartridges a
total of twice. And that's without bogging down any PC.
> Add in the editing programs you can get, and practically anyone can
> start mixing their own music. And for a hell of a lot less than going
> and buying DAT players, tapes, and mixing boards and such.
>
>
>>>Does your console run wordprocessers?
>>
>>I see that your spell check is running fabulously. I don't WANT a
>>word processor for a toy.
>
>
> Didn't the Saturn have a word processing program for it? I know you
> could also set up the DC to run Word as well. And both consoles had
> keyboard peripherals, as well as mice.
That does nothing to change the fact that I don't want a word
processor as a toy. If the Saturn DID have a word processor, I sure
wouldn't buy it, and as for the DC, running Word on a box that has
no printer port is pretty much an exercise in futility.
>>>Does your console run database programs?
>>
>>Actually, yeah, they do. That's how they manage game saves.
>
>
> No, that's not how they manage game saves. They use flash RAM (for
> memory cards) or a hard drive (in the Xbox's case). Database programs
> are what you use when you are setting up servers, and they are what
> you access each time you go to a web page. Programs like SQL, ISS,
> etc. Moron.
Dummy, the flash RAM does NOTHING to manage itself and neither does a
hard drive. They use FILE ALLOCATION TABLES. Read the word TABLES
again. TABLES TABLES TABLES. Get it? Got it? Now WHAT ELSE uses
tables? HELLO DATABASE PROGRAM!!!
Before you go calling someone else a moron, you'd best have your ducks
in a row or you're gonna look the part of the fool yourself.
>>>Does your console run mail programs?
>>
>>No, there's a mailbox on my porch which handles my mail needs.
>>There's a whole bunch of nice people in the Post Office to do
>>that. The PC is just a source of spam.
>
>
> Both the Sega Saturn and the Sega Dreamcast could and did run email
> programs, as well as web applications. Try not to let it destroy you
> that consoles are able to handle these simple things as well, Eugene.
So what? Do you realize that the two consoles you named CRASHED AND
BURNED? Both of them died early deaths. Looks like their 'net ability
did about jack-point-squat to help their sales. Nobody WANTS a console
to do those things. The Xbox won't. It's going closed network, so you
can forget E-mail on that. The GC probably won't get any browser or
e-mail app ever. The only one left is PS2, and that thing doesn't have
any HDD yet to even be remotely useful for that. Besides, a PS2 ($199)
plus the HDD ($130) and the Network adapter ($40) brings you up to a
total of $369. You could buy a PC that would kick it's butt for doing
e-mail and web for about that much.
>>>Does your console run video editing programs?
>>
>>Oh, there's something I do every day <sarcasm>. Who in the
>>heck runs video editing programs for home use? Other than
>>kiddie porn there's no real purpose for it.
>
>
> Maybe for making home movies to send to grandma and grampa? Perhaps
> for just fun? There's loads of cheap editing tools out there. Next
> you'll say that home video cameras are also something that no one
> uses.
Yeah, like there are a whole lot of old geezers with PC's capable of
watching home movies on. That's why home video cameras tend to use
videotape. Gramps might actually HAVE a VCR. Maybe.
Besides, home movies aren't supposed to look like Spielberg made it.
>>>Nope, it doesn't, that's why it's a console.
>>
>>Which is exactly what I want. The RIGHT tool for the RIGHT
>>job. That's what consoles are.
>
>
> They're the right tools for their specific purposes. You can't have
> an Xbox, however, and expect to run PS2 or GC software on it. As
> closed source as Windows may be, consoles are even more closed source.
That's one of the best things about consoles. With them being so
closed, the software is made by invitation only. That's why there's
such a better signal to noise ratio on console games as opposed to
PC ones.
> At least on the PC they can make the same game run no matter what sort
> of hardware you have under the hood, and in many cases now the OS is
> mattering less and less as well.
No, on the PC *you* can make the same game run. They expect the end
user to do a lot of work. Tons of work tracking down patches, doing
the installation, answering configuration questions and making sure
that the drivers are all up to date.
>>If it was just hooking them up, I wouldn't be bothered. It's the
>>seemingly endless patches, registrations, and configurations that
>>rip the fun right out of anything associated with a PC.
>
>
> No one said PCs always had to be fun, Eugene.
Way to miss the point. PC's are NEVER fun. They're frustration
personified, they drive users into mad rages, they cause mental
anguish and distress, and they're the reason that IT professionals
have the most illegal drug abuse of any profession.
> Gaming PCs should be fun.
No, they should be shot.
> Dedicated servers shouldn't be fun, they should be reliable and
> able to run mission critical applications at all times. Hardly any
> fun involved in running mission critical applications, however.
>
>
>>I don't deny that this is a PC. I'm about to shoot the damned thing
>>with my classic 1962 J.C. Higgins Model 20 12-Gauge shotgun if it comes
>>up with one more error message or another stupid question trying to PISS
>>ME OFF. This is NOT a "little effort". I had my Xbox playing games
>>inside of 10 minutes of opening the console's package. You can't get a
>>PC to do that on a bet to save your life.
>
>
> I can get games up and running on my PC in under 5 minutes of opening
> the game's CD. Maybe if you got some better hardware, or maybe a
> little actual knowledge of how you should install things, you wouldn't
> have these problems.
5 minutes is at least 4 minutes too long, and my hardware likely kicks
your hardware's patootie. Can you beat an AthlonXP2000+?
I know how to do it. What I hate is having to.
>>Simpler is the bailiwick of the console. There's no good reason to
>>game on a PC. It's like racing garbage trucks. They're great at
>>getting garbage, but they suck for most anything else.
>
>
> Sure there is. You're just too closed minded to accept it. I can't
> imagine how horrible playing certain games that are on the PC online
> are going to play on Xbox Live, for example (Counter-Strike, Unreal
> Championship, Star Wars Galaxies, etc.).
I like online gaming on consoles because that's the best way to get
AWAY from the horrid, rude, foulmouthed jerks that make up the vast
majority of the PC crowd. I tried Quake on a friend's PC for about
5 minutes and I'd already had insults about my mother at least a
dozen times, saw at least 50 profanities, and received a threat
to "haxor" my (actually my friend's) machine. So I said screw it.
You will never, ever, see me join any online game with PC gamers
around and no language filters.
Online games can only be as good as the quality of the online gamers,
and in the case of the PC, that's very low quality indeed.
> For some games, there is simply no better platform than the PC. For
> others, there is no better platform than a console. For FPS, sims,
> and RTS as well as MMOGs, the PC is the best choice.
You just named four genres I don't like.
> For platformers,
> sports games (normal and extreme), and RPGs, the consoles are the way
> to go. (Note: I say RPGs on consoles because I don't like the way
> most PC RPG games play--and I don't mention racing because I can't
> stand those types of games, but each person's MMV of course.)
--
Charles Doane
Joe M. wrote:
> Charles, your responses here are simply silly. No other way to put it.
> "Silly me, I run those at the office. That's why they're Office programs".
> I'll estimate a MINIMUM of 90% of all PC owners have some variation of MS
> Office/MS Works at HOME. You're disagreeing for the SAKE of disagreeing.
> Not doing much for your credibility here.
I'll estimate a MINIMUM of 100% of all PC owners have some apps that they
never use. This isn't about what people have, it's what they USE that
matters. Is a dedicated gaming PC going to have a printer attached?
Is it going to have a scanner attached? Of course not; those things are
for general purpose machines, not specialty ones.
> You also sound like Charlie Brown instead of Charlie Doane. Lucy keeps
> pulling the ball away at the last second; nothing works for poor Chuck. ;0)
I could always get it to work. I just shouldn't HAVE to. That's what I
find to be completely unreasonable. That's the unacceptable aspect of
gaming on the PC. It's supposed to be the entertainer, and I'm supposed
to be the entertainee. There's not much entertaining going on while
watching some stupid "% Installation Complete" bar slowly creep by, and
then (I *swear* the bastards do this on purpose) when it FINALLY gets to
99% complete, it stays there for about five minutes MOCKING you.
> I can count on one hand the number of technical glitches I've had with games
> over the last few years. The last year with WinXP has been the best PC
> gaming year ever for me. Yes, PC's CAN be a royal pain in the ass. I still
> think much of it boils down to user error. What else explains my
> experience, good fortune? And the same for my friend who has NO problems?
Oh puhleaze. Is that the Windows XP I just spent 15 Minutes downloading a
24 MEGABYTE Service Pack 1 for today? It was THAT screwed up! UNBELIEVABLE.
How big was Windows 3.1? It couldn't have been MUCH more than 24 MB.
I know I had it running on a '286 with a 40MB HDD.
So, there were as many PATCHES as the entire SIZE of Win3.1! How screwed up
is that? Good thing I didn't try that on a 56K dialup. Even so, it took
about half an hour just to fix WinXP on this box and get the updater to stop
bitching at me every time it boots up.
I don't know about your 'good fortune'. Try this: Install the LucasArts
game "Full Throttle" and get it to run on your XP machine. I tried it
yesterday, and ALMOST have it working. I had to LIE to the thing and tell
it I had a Soundblaster 16 to get any sound out of it, and the sound is
pretty crappy but at least playable. I don't think you could do any better.
Legacy support on sound cards has always been pretty pathetic.
I keep hoping that "Full Throttle" comes to a console because I'd buy it
in a heartbeat. I've already played the whole game, but it'd be nice to
see what something like the XBox could do with it and not have to fight
to get the program even running with sound and a framerate over 20.
It's pitiful that the best machine I ever had running it was a Pentium90.
Of course, that wasn't legacy support. That was the kind of machine it
was made for back in 1994.
> The only guy I know with PC gaming heartaches is a self-proclaimed expert
> who doesn't know his ass from a hard drive. User error is the biggest cause
> of troubles and sound fundamentals with a LITTLE luck is the best path to
> low stress PC gaming.
>
> I guess for every great experience like mine, there has to be an experience
> like yours to even things out. ;0)
Yeah, well I'm not like your friend. I don't make user errors, and I do
know one of the things WinXP SP1 does. Windows Media Player had a bug
which affects AthlonXP chips because it looks for "GenuineIntel" in the
CPU to enable support for the SSE (3D NOW in Athlon-speak) command set.
So, unless you download that service pack you take a 20% performance hit
you don't need to take due to WMP not running SSE on a chip that does it.
I mess with PC's all the time at work. I don't like doing it, but I'm
getting paid so as long as the checks clear, I can't complain about that.
What I CAN complain about is when I happen to be the one doing the paying.
I will not fight a stupid machine to try and get entertainment out of the
dumb box. Not with every currently viable console in the USA sitting in
my living room waiting to do the job hassle-free.
Chuck C.
Chuck, you are either a GREAT troll, or just one seriously dumb MF. Please
let us know what Tel-com you work for, if you're their tech, thats one
company I dont want to rely on.
Or, I might just be able to explain all the bitterness. You're wife
cheated on you in an online chatroom on the computer while you were
downstairs playing on your kiddie game, didn't she??
Chuck
--
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Benjamin Franklin
The Doctor
Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Makes me wonder about the PC gamers, myself. Have they no concept of the
>value of game time? The reason that PC games are cheaper (in some cases,
>not in all as PSX games are often in the $10 range now) is that PC games
>are largely a do-it-yourself proposition. The $20 you save isn't any
>bargain if it takes an hour to get the game working. The PC gamer does a
>whole lot of the work himself; work which console games take care of.
>
>The last game I bought for XBox was Sega GT 2002, along with the Mad Catz
>MC2 wheel setup (nice wheel, btw). From the time I got home with the
>goods to the time I was playing the game with the wheel working perfectly
>was just about 10 minutes flat. You can't do that sort of thing on a
>PC at all. If you put a wheel on a PC then you get to install the drivers,
>play 20 questions with "Install Shield", and then you get to do the same
>thing with the new game. Moreover, there's no guarantee that the game will
>even work with that peripheral after you've spent the better part of an
>hour jumping through hoops.
>
>I quit PC gaming long ago. The last PC game I ever bought was Duke Nukem3D,
>and after fighting with that game for days trying to tweak every setting
>just right, something snapped. I bit my lip, tasted blood and promptly
>smashed my keyboard (I hated that keyboard anyway). I will not ever fight
>to make my entertainment work again. I want entertainment that works for
>ME, not the other way around.
Is there some special MSWindows version of DN3D?
The IBM version worked without a problem.
(too slow for my computer, though)
>Every other form of entertainment gives immediate gratification.
>
>Would anyone put up with a music CD that ran Install Shield? HECK NO!
>Would anyone put up with a movie DVD that installed drivers? HECK NO!
>Most folks don't even like renting videotapes that haven't been rewound.
>Console games are part of the same line of reasoning. Put them in and
>they work just like they're supposed to, no muss, no fuss, no grief.
>
>It's PC gamers who are the nutcases paying for recreation and bringing
>home aggravation. I don't call that any bargain at all. You save your
>$20, PC gamers. You'll be needing that money for therapy.
Well that's what you get for using MSWindows!
I never had any of these weird problems on my IBM PC clone.
Not all PC users are using MSWin! Some are Linux or FreeBSD users.
(Linux, myself)
I just use MS-DOS for games.
I mostly use Linux for the Internet and some Unix text games.
And Apple and Sony make PCs too.
(you know that Sony sells Linux for their PlayStation 2, right?)
The bad thing about game systems is that you can't use add-on levels.
This makes game like Doom and Quake and Unreal Tournament kind of crappy.
And at least the PSX2 lets you use USB devices and run Linux/Unix software.
I still don't know how Unreal Tournament is going to be played on the X-Box.
Longhorn
"Sam Altersitz" <unclet...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3d9643f3...@news.nj.comcast.giganews.com...
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 06:58:55 -0700, Charles Doane
> <gdo...@mindspring.com> attempted to sound witty, but instead came out
> sounding like this... :
>
> >That's total B.S.
> >I just bought a new monitor (plug and pray, hehehe) for my new PC. The
> >MONITOR (Viewsonic) came with an install disc. This is SEVEN YEARS after
> >Windows 95 promised Plug-and-Play, and EASY things like VGA monitors
still
> >come with driver discs. Even worse, the "autorun" didn't even work.
> >Apparently Windows XP is such an upgrade that silly things like
autobooting
> >discs are a thing of the past. I had to look at the autorun file to see
> >which program the damned install wanted to run, run it, and then I had to
> >know that Windows XP is basically a sequel to Windows 2000 which is
basically
> >a sequel to Windows NT. Otherwise I wouldn't have known to grab the
drivers
> >for NT. THAT SUCKS. Plus it had to restart the machine. That's
PATHETIC.
>
> Most monitors are pllug and pray, moron. However, if you have drivers
> for them ,then you can use your video card and the monitor to their
> best abilities. Without the drivers, you often can't set the refresh
> rate on monitors above 60 hz, for example.
yup, I have to say you are correct.
>
> >If a console game worked like that the console wouldn't sell worth beans.
> >It's unbelievable. I can put a game into my Sega Saturn running a
Hitachi
> >SH2 at 28 Mhz and be playing in less than a minute. I can't get this
> >stupid AthlonXP2000+ (supposedly better than a Pentium 4 2Ghz) to do
> >anything new that quickly, and it's SUPPOSED to be 70 times faster? I
sure
> >don't see it. PC's are junkpiles next to consoles, because they're so
> >bogged down by all their crapola that they don't get the rubber to the
road.
> >It's like driving a Ferrari on metal rims. It doesn't matter what's
under
> >the hood if the power ain't getting to the user.
>
> Well, most of the bogging down in PCs comes from one place: Windows
> and its bloatware.
No, sorry, Windows can hardly be callsed bloatware on an Athlon XP2000+ PC
unless you're willing to call just about every other *nix or Linux OS runing
the X Windowing system/X Windows (w/ KDE, GNOME, etc) bloatware too. Even
more amusing is that the arguably most popular of the bunch, KDE, is nothing
more than a copy of the old Windows GUI. If you don't believe me, please,
be my guess and try it out for yourself. Try running Windows on the same
hardware you run Linux or *nix with X Windows, you'll find the PC will
perform/run just about the same under both enviornments. If you really want
to see your Linux system choke, try using Star Office, then we can talk
about bloatware.
>Add in that multiple other programs like to set
> themselves up to auto run as soon as your PC starts, and you're losing
> resources
...you do know you can turn these off, right?
>(not even taking into account how horrible Windows is at
> managing resources to begin with).
Are you insane? Only the now essentially discontinued Win 9x OSs were
horrible at managing resources and thats when compared to the likes of
NT/2000/XP/.Net. Windows NT4,2000,XP, and .Net all manage system resources
remarkably well.
>
> Try using a different OS and see if the same bog down issues happen.
It will.
> Granted, you won't find as much program support on the other OSes, but
> 9 out of 10 times you will find that the programs run smoother,
lol, not really, personally, I find Netscape crashes the most on systems
running Linux.
>and
> the entire PC runs smoother all the time without God damn Explorer
> crashing every 5 seconds.
...that is unfortunate you're running into these problems as Explorer rarely
crashes on Windows systems w/ an NT kernel. Hell, if we're going to be
intellecutally honest here, Explorer rarely crashes on a well maintained Win
9x system, its just that the likely hood of it crashing under win
nt/2k/xp/.net is much much smaller. Although better Explorer crashes in Win
than X crashing in *nix/linux which unfortunately, frequently does happen.
>
> It really doesn't matter how fast the PC is when it has Windows
> running on it.
This really doesn't make sense. You could just as easily say it doesn't
matter how fast the PC is when any other non Win OS is running on it.
>Hell, as son as I get my Linux box up and running, I
> won't ever need to use this Windows one ever again,
Honestly I always giggle when I hear people say this, in no time at all
they're back to using Windows. Who knows, maybe you'll be the overwhelming
odds and it will be true in your case. Good luck
>unless a game I
> want to play doesn't have Linux drivers.
By in large you'll be limited to Open GL games, and its too bad for you that
Direct X's popularity is on the rise and arguably more popular than Open GL
is now a days.
PositiveG
At least I haven't noticed any cached data left behind after the game was
removed.
I haven't noticed any impact the number of blocks free either. Like for
ripping CDs into it.
--
====================================================
"magnulus" <magn...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:_vyl9.5679$IO5.2...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
:
: "Bob Perez" <b...@DELETETHISplanetperez.com> wrote in message
:
:
:
Charles Doane
Chuck C. wrote:
> snip
>
> Chuck, you are either a GREAT troll, or just one seriously dumb MF. Please
> let us know what Tel-com you work for, if you're their tech, thats one
> company I dont want to rely on.
Don't worry about it, you couldn't afford my services anyway as they're
$150 per hour with a 4-hour minimum. If you even call me you're out
$600. Of course, a lot of that is to pay for the test equipment I use.
The SONET BERT set alone costs over $45,000.
> Or, I might just be able to explain all the bitterness. You're wife
> cheated on you in an online chatroom on the computer while you were
> downstairs playing on your kiddie game, didn't she??
Actually, no, my ex was so computer illiterate that she called the
exterminator to try and get rid of the mouse. Tell her to click on
a screen icon and she'd look for Harrison Ford. She couldn't type,
either. She thought Caps Lock was in the medicine cabinet for child
safety, and she thought Tab was the diet soda in the refrigerator.
Once she asked me for a calculator and I handed her my HP Scientific
with RPN just to watch the antics of her trying to figure that one out.
After that she never wanted to see anything with an "enter" key again.
Probably the stupidest thing that ever happened to my technophobic ex
was the time the power went out and I was gone for a week. She
couldn't set the clock on the microwave, and it won't work unless the
clock is set so she kept on running over to the 7-11 to use theirs.
Believe me, there are some super technological illiterati in this
world and my ex was one of the worst. She wouldn't get on a chat
room and if she wanted to she couldn't ever figure out how to do it.
Charles Doane
The Doctor wrote:
> In article <3D94FCE...@mindspring.com>,
> Charles Doane <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>I quit PC gaming long ago. The last PC game I ever bought was Duke Nukem3D,
>>and after fighting with that game for days trying to tweak every setting
>>just right, something snapped. I bit my lip, tasted blood and promptly
>>smashed my keyboard (I hated that keyboard anyway). I will not ever fight
>>to make my entertainment work again. I want entertainment that works for
>>ME, not the other way around.
>
>
> Is there some special MSWindows version of DN3D?
> The IBM version worked without a problem.
> (too slow for my computer, though)
DN3D used some DOS4GW, proprietary to itself. It has it's own OS, mainly
because at the time MS-DOS still suffered from the 640K RAM limitation.
You could have 4 MB of RAM but so far as MS-DOS was concerned, you had
640K. Which makes backwards compatability moot because if there aren't
any updates for modern equipment (it has no idea what PCI or AGP is) then
there's no chance of it running.
Guess what my solution to the DN3D problem was? I bought the SATURN
version. No muss, no fuss, and I like the control scheme on the good
old NiGHTs pad better anyway.
>>Every other form of entertainment gives immediate gratification.
>>
>>Would anyone put up with a music CD that ran Install Shield? HECK NO!
>>Would anyone put up with a movie DVD that installed drivers? HECK NO!
>>Most folks don't even like renting videotapes that haven't been rewound.
>>Console games are part of the same line of reasoning. Put them in and
>>they work just like they're supposed to, no muss, no fuss, no grief.
>>
>>It's PC gamers who are the nutcases paying for recreation and bringing
>>home aggravation. I don't call that any bargain at all. You save your
>>$20, PC gamers. You'll be needing that money for therapy.
>
>
> Well that's what you get for using MSWindows!
You mean the OS that's required for most commercial PC games this side
of 1996?
> I never had any of these weird problems on my IBM PC clone.
> Not all PC users are using MSWin! Some are Linux or FreeBSD users.
> (Linux, myself)
> I just use MS-DOS for games.
> I mostly use Linux for the Internet and some Unix text games.
> And Apple and Sony make PCs too.
> (you know that Sony sells Linux for their PlayStation 2, right?)
Not to me they're not selling any Linux. So, basically, you're stuck
with suck-patootie games that are either six years old or text-based.
Yip-yip-yahoo. No thanks, I'll just play my consoles.
> The bad thing about game systems is that you can't use add-on levels.
Says who? Even the DC does that with PSO. I've downloaded and played
more than a few quests, as well as new ones online.
> This makes game like Doom and Quake and Unreal Tournament kind of crappy.
Since I don't particularly like those games (even though I have them all
for consoles) I don't play them much anyway. Apparently, looking through
my game shelves, I was so COMPLETELY underwhelmed by the prospect of
playing UT that it's still sitting on the shelf in the wrapper waiting
for me to get around to playing it. Which I probably never will, as I
consider FPS games to be about as much fun as your average sunburn.
It's just there to complete the collection of online DC games, that's all.
> And at least the PSX2 lets you use USB devices and run Linux/Unix software.
Only if the app supports it, and more than a few don't. Try running Namco's
Ridge Racer V with the Logitech GT Force USB Wheel and see what happens.
I'll tell you what happens. NOTHING! IT WON'T WORK! If you want Force
Feedback w/ RRV then you need the hard-to-find JogCon (I have one, but that's
beside the point).
> I still don't know how Unreal Tournament is going to be played on the X-Box.
Probably the same way it was on Dreamcast. Not that I care, as the game looks
pretty stupid to me. The cover has some stupid-looking robot wearing a punk
dreadlock hairdo holding the most ridiculous-looking chainsaw I've ever seen.
Screw that idiocy. I'd rather play Beach Spikers online.
Joe M.
>
>
> Chuck C. wrote:
> > snip
> >
> > Chuck, you are either a GREAT troll, or just one seriously dumb MF.
Please
> > let us know what Tel-com you work for, if you're their tech, thats one
> > company I dont want to rely on.
>
<whips out cock>
> Don't worry about it, you couldn't afford my services anyway as they're
> $150 per hour with a 4-hour minimum. If you even call me you're out
> $600. Of course, a lot of that is to pay for the test equipment I use.
> The SONET BERT set alone costs over $45,000.
<puts cock away>
Hmm, I'm still not impressed.
> > Or, I might just be able to explain all the bitterness. You're wife
> > cheated on you in an online chatroom on the computer while you were
> > downstairs playing on your kiddie game, didn't she??
>
> Actually, no, my ex was so computer illiterate that she called the
> exterminator to try and get rid of the mouse. Tell her to click on
> a screen icon and she'd look for Harrison Ford. She couldn't type,
> either. She thought Caps Lock was in the medicine cabinet for child
> safety, and she thought Tab was the diet soda in the refrigerator.
Ouch. It's almost impossible to string together 4 horrible jokes.
> Once she asked me for a calculator and I handed her my HP Scientific
> with RPN just to watch the antics of her trying to figure that one out.
> After that she never wanted to see anything with an "enter" key again.
>
I bet you used that HP to calculate your 4 hour fee mentioned earlier.
C'mon, admit it?
> Probably the stupidest thing that ever happened to my technophobic ex
> was the time the power went out and I was gone for a week. She
> couldn't set the clock on the microwave, and it won't work unless the
> clock is set so she kept on running over to the 7-11 to use theirs.
>
Make that 5 horrible jokes.
> Believe me, there are some super technological illiterati in this
> world and my ex was one of the worst. She wouldn't get on a chat
> room and if she wanted to she couldn't ever figure out how to do it.
>
It's not hard to see why she's your EX-wife. Spousal abuse is grounds for
divorce. ;0)
BTW, was "illiterati" a typo or a pseudo-intellectual abuse of Latin plural?
--
Joe M.
Sam Altersitz
<ProjectBlackcomb__@so_hot_mail__.c0m> attempted to sound witty, but
instead came out sounding like this... :
>No, sorry, Windows can hardly be callsed bloatware on an Athlon XP2000+ PC
>unless you're willing to call just about every other *nix or Linux OS runing
>the X Windowing system/X Windows (w/ KDE, GNOME, etc) bloatware too. Even
>more amusing is that the arguably most popular of the bunch, KDE, is nothing
>more than a copy of the old Windows GUI. If you don't believe me, please,
>be my guess and try it out for yourself. Try running Windows on the same
>hardware you run Linux or *nix with X Windows, you'll find the PC will
>perform/run just about the same under both enviornments. If you really want
>to see your Linux system choke, try using Star Office, then we can talk
>about bloatware.
Let's see, I checked my friend's Windows XP folder. 1.41 GB. Now,
even you can't honestly say that XP requires such a large
footprint/disk space requirement to run. When you start adding all
the other 'features' that MS throws into their OSes, however, that's
where the large footprint/disk space requirement comes in.
I know you like to say how that's all functionality, but in all
honesty an OS does not need many of the programs that come bundled in
Windows to be functional. But the bundling of IE into the Windows OS
(which can't be removed) is not necessary, it's just another tactic to
ensure marketshare in the Internet browser market. The bundling of
Outlook/Outlook Express is not necessary for the OS to function (and
given how Outlook/Express are the easiest email clients to hit with
viruses, I'd say their inclusion hurts the OS more than helps it).
The bundling of the WMP isn't necessary. Etc. Especially when you
consider that 2k/XP is supposed to be a server OS as well. There's
absoulutely no need for half or more of those programs in a server OS.
That's bloatware. Things bundled into the OS that are not necessary
for the OS to perform it's job, and in some cases which hinder the
OS/make the OS vunerable to malicious code/attack..
>...you do know you can turn these off, right?
Yes. But in most cases it is only after the install. They don't
often inform you that they are putting themselves into the system
tray. It's easy enough to turn them off, but some of them
automatically go back into the system tray as soon as you open the
program (the Real Player is notorius for this, hence one reason why I
don't use it).
>Are you insane? Only the now essentially discontinued Win 9x OSs were
>horrible at managing resources and thats when compared to the likes of
>NT/2000/XP/.Net. Windows NT4,2000,XP, and .Net all manage system resources
>remarkably well.
Glad to see it only got them 9 tries to get that right. But since I'm
not running the NT kernel, nor are the majority of home users, the
fact that Windows is horrible at managing resources still stands for
most people.
>lol, not really, personally, I find Netscape crashes the most on systems
>running Linux.
And IE crashes the most on systems running Windows. The point being?
>...that is unfortunate you're running into these problems as Explorer rarely
>crashes on Windows systems w/ an NT kernel. Hell, if we're going to be
>intellecutally honest here, Explorer rarely crashes on a well maintained Win
>9x system, its just that the likely hood of it crashing under win
>nt/2k/xp/.net is much much smaller. Although better Explorer crashes in Win
>than X crashing in *nix/linux which unfortunately, frequently does happen.
I think I'll be running most of my programs from the command line,
rather than GUIs. I always liked command lines better, even back in
DOS days.
However I went for a remarkably long time with very few crashes (over
a year with fewer than 10 crashes) until about a month an a half ago.
Right after downloading one of theose damn 'critical updates' from MS
for Windows. Now I can have Explorer crash itself, literally,
multiple times within seconds (as soon as I close the first illegal
operation message, another one pops up, and sometimes a third), and
this happens EVERY SINGLE DAY now, with no exceptions. And while I am
doing such resource intensive things like clicking on a link in a web
page, or clicking on the back button in the browser (normally in IE).
It's possible that this has happened because I am running the first
edition of Windows 98 on this machine. However other people I know
are having simmilar problems and they run Win98SE. I'm more inclined
to think MS is releasing bad code to try and get people to see the
'need' to upgrade to XP. All the people I know with these crashing
problems had them start after downloading a few recent critical update
packages.
Of course you won't beleive MS would do this. But then you also
probably didn't think MS was using unfair, and illegal, business
practices for years either.
>This really doesn't make sense. You could just as easily say it doesn't
>matter how fast the PC is when any other non Win OS is running on it.
Unless 2k/XP has fixed the over reliance of virtual memory in Windows,
the system will inevitably slow itself down soon enough.
>Honestly I always giggle when I hear people say this, in no time at all
>they're back to using Windows. Who knows, maybe you'll be the overwhelming
>odds and it will be true in your case. Good luck
Possibly. But after all the crap I deal with on Windows, even going
back to DOS would be an improvement for me.
>By in large you'll be limited to Open GL games, and its too bad for you that
>Direct X's popularity is on the rise and arguably more popular than Open GL
>is now a days.
Ah, but I prefer OpenGL and Glide over DirectX anyway. And most of
the games I play support them as well (and in some cases are
programmed in one of them first, and ported to DirectX).
Uncle Fester
>
>
> Chuck C. wrote:
>
>> snip
>>
>> Chuck, you are either a GREAT troll, or just one seriously dumb MF.
>> Please let us know what Tel-com you work for, if you're their tech,
>> thats one company I dont want to rely on.
>
>
> Don't worry about it, you couldn't afford my services anyway as they're
> $150 per hour with a 4-hour minimum. If you even call me you're out
> $600. Of course, a lot of that is to pay for the test equipment I use.
> The SONET BERT set alone costs over $45,000.
<Snort>
For somebody without the sense to use a legacy soundcard for an 8 yr old
game!
> Actually, no, my ex was so computer illiterate that she called the
> exterminator to try and get rid of the mouse. Tell her to click on
> a screen icon and she'd look for Harrison Ford. She couldn't type,
> either. She thought Caps Lock was in the medicine cabinet for child
> safety, and she thought Tab was the diet soda in the refrigerator.
>
> Once she asked me for a calculator and I handed her my HP Scientific
> with RPN just to watch the antics of her trying to figure that one out.
> After that she never wanted to see anything with an "enter" key again.
>
> Probably the stupidest thing that ever happened to my technophobic ex
> was the time the power went out and I was gone for a week. She
> couldn't set the clock on the microwave, and it won't work unless the
> clock is set so she kept on running over to the 7-11 to use theirs.
And she was the brains of the family. <g>
--
Fester
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they
are free. -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
http://www.hermes-press.com/police_state.htm
Uncle Fester
>
>
> The Doctor wrote:
>>
>> Well that's what you get for using MSWindows!
>
>
> You mean the OS that's required for most commercial PC games this side
> of 1996?
Funny. Unreal Tournament 2003 has both versions (Linux & Windows) on
it's cd's. Look for it to become a pattern.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/21/1341249&mode=thread&tid=127
>> I never had any of these weird problems on my IBM PC clone.
>> Not all PC users are using MSWin! Some are Linux or FreeBSD users.
>> (Linux, myself)
>> I just use MS-DOS for games.
>> I mostly use Linux for the Internet and some Unix text games.
>> And Apple and Sony make PCs too.
>> (you know that Sony sells Linux for their PlayStation 2, right?)
>
>
> Not to me they're not selling any Linux. So, basically, you're stuck
> with suck-patootie games that are either six years old or text-based.
> Yip-yip-yahoo. No thanks, I'll just play my consoles.
Remember, this guy is too lazy to tweak anything. One of those
gnat-sized attention spanned folk who can only grasp instant
gratification without any effort expended.
Text-based or 6 yr old games only on Linux. Let's see... Unreal
Tournament, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament 2003, SimCity 3000, SiN, Soldier
of Fortune, Railroad Tycoon 2, Mind Rover, Deus Ex... Yeah, sure buddy.
Charles Doane
Joe M. wrote:
> "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3D973E4F...@mindspring.com...
>
>>
>>Chuck C. wrote:
>>
>>>snip
>>>
>>>Chuck, you are either a GREAT troll, or just one seriously dumb MF.
>>
> Please
>
>>>let us know what Tel-com you work for, if you're their tech, thats one
>>>company I dont want to rely on.
>>
>
> <whips out cock>
I'm actually sterile, thank-you-very-much.
>>Don't worry about it, you couldn't afford my services anyway as they're
>>$150 per hour with a 4-hour minimum. If you even call me you're out
>>$600. Of course, a lot of that is to pay for the test equipment I use.
>>The SONET BERT set alone costs over $45,000.
>
>
> <puts cock away>
Haven't used it in 15 years anyway.
> Hmm, I'm still not impressed.
Of course not. That's because you're just looking for a blind flamewar
with somebody a lot better at it than you'll ever be.
>>>Or, I might just be able to explain all the bitterness. You're wife
>>>cheated on you in an online chatroom on the computer while you were
>>>downstairs playing on your kiddie game, didn't she??
>>
>>Actually, no, my ex was so computer illiterate that she called the
>>exterminator to try and get rid of the mouse. Tell her to click on
>>a screen icon and she'd look for Harrison Ford. She couldn't type,
>>either. She thought Caps Lock was in the medicine cabinet for child
>>safety, and she thought Tab was the diet soda in the refrigerator.
> Ouch. It's almost impossible to string together 4 horrible jokes.
I managed to do it though, so you'd best be impressed. I can do the
almost impossible. In fact the only reason anything is "almost"
impossible is that I can do it.
>>Once she asked me for a calculator and I handed her my HP Scientific
>>with RPN just to watch the antics of her trying to figure that one out.
>>After that she never wanted to see anything with an "enter" key again.
> I bet you used that HP to calculate your 4 hour fee mentioned earlier.
> C'mon, admit it?
I don't even see that money. It's not my test equipment. I just know
how to use it. That's what I'm paid for.
>>Probably the stupidest thing that ever happened to my technophobic ex
>>was the time the power went out and I was gone for a week. She
>>couldn't set the clock on the microwave, and it won't work unless the
>>clock is set so she kept on running over to the 7-11 to use theirs.
> Make that 5 horrible jokes.
No, that was a true story. She was so stupid that she didn't even
think about the fully functional oven in the apartment. It was
nice in a way, as there wasn't any oven cleaning to get the deposit
back. Her idea of a home cooked meal was Swanson.
>>Believe me, there are some super technological illiterati in this
>>world and my ex was one of the worst. She wouldn't get on a chat
>>room and if she wanted to she couldn't ever figure out how to do it.
> It's not hard to see why she's your EX-wife. Spousal abuse is grounds for
> divorce. ;0)
She abused me a heck of a lot more. I had to live with a moron.
How many times do you have to show somebody how to use the VCR before it
qualifies as abuse? I wasn't in any marriage, I was conned into assisted
living.
> BTW, was "illiterati" a typo or a pseudo-intellectual abuse of Latin plural?
I don't make typos very often. My grasp of the English language is well above
average, and I don't bother with spell checkers as my spelling is usually far
superior to any machine's. I say what I mean. If your reading comprehension
is not up to the task, then that is a problem of yours, not mine.
Charles Doane
Uncle Fester wrote:
> Charles Doane wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Well that's what you get for using MSWindows!
>>
>>
>>
>> You mean the OS that's required for most commercial PC games this side
>> of 1996?
> Funny. Unreal Tournament 2003 has both versions (Linux & Windows) on
> it's cd's. Look for it to become a pattern.
> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/21/1341249&mode=thread&tid=127
That would be the game I bought from a bargain bin a YEAR ago for the DC
and never wanted to play enough to even break the wrapper? THAT P.O.S.?
FPS games are slow, they're made to forgive latency, and they're brain
dead friendly. The games are sloppy and the players are rude. Screw it.
>>> I never had any of these weird problems on my IBM PC clone.
>>> Not all PC users are using MSWin! Some are Linux or FreeBSD users.
>>> (Linux, myself)
>>> I just use MS-DOS for games.
>>> I mostly use Linux for the Internet and some Unix text games.
>>> And Apple and Sony make PCs too.
>>> (you know that Sony sells Linux for their PlayStation 2, right?)
>>
>>
>>
>> Not to me they're not selling any Linux. So, basically, you're stuck
>> with suck-patootie games that are either six years old or text-based.
>> Yip-yip-yahoo. No thanks, I'll just play my consoles.
>
> Remember, this guy is too lazy to tweak anything.
Lazy doesn't have anything to do with it. When I put a game on, that's
MY TIME, and I'm paying to be entertained. It should be a done deal.
If an oil change went the way PC games usually do, it'd be like this:
Customer: I'm here to pick up my car. You changed the oil, right?
Mechanic: Well, we drained it but we didn't know which brand to use.
Customer: If I'd have cared, I'd have told you in the first place.
Mechanic: Nope, you have to pick a favorite! We need you to pick!
Customer: Oh, for the love of Pete! Valvoline, OKAY? Does THAT work?
Mechanic: This is a Pennzoil shop. We don't have Valvoline.
Customer: Then put Pennzoil into the car! I DON'T CARE! DO IT!
Mechanic: Thank you! Your car will be ready in another hour.
Customer: <seriously thinks about busting a cap in mechanic ass>
I'm paying OTHER PEOPLE to do something for me when I buy a game.
Either they can do the job, or they can't. If I have to lift so
much as one finger to help them, then they can't, they're incompetent,
and I don't want to do business with them at all.
> One of those gnat-sized attention spanned folk who can only grasp instant
> gratification without any effort expended.
No effort expended? MY BUTT! How do *you* get $50 without any effort?
That money is EARNED, and anybody who wants some of it has to do some
EARNING too. I paid my dues in cold hard cash. I'm the boss, it works
for me. It's a machine, it's MY machine, and I'm supposed to be the one
receiving pleasure.
> Text-based or 6 yr old games only on Linux. Let's see... Unreal
> Tournament, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament 2003, SimCity 3000, SiN, Soldier
> of Fortune, Railroad Tycoon 2, Mind Rover, Deus Ex... Yeah, sure buddy.
Name a game I actually want to play.
Something like Swingerz Golf for the Gamecube?
Dave Henrie
> >>
> >> Well that's what you get for using MSWindows!
> >
> >
> > You mean the OS that's required for most commercial PC games this side
> > of 1996?
Isn't it also the OS for Sega Dreamcast and Xbox?
dave henrie
Uncle Fester
>
>
> Uncle Fester wrote:
>
>> Charles Doane wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Doctor wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well that's what you get for using MSWindows!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You mean the OS that's required for most commercial PC games this side
>>> of 1996?
>>
>
>> Funny. Unreal Tournament 2003 has both versions (Linux & Windows) on
>> it's cd's. Look for it to become a pattern.
>> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/21/1341249&mode=thread&tid=127
>
>
> That would be the game I bought from a bargain bin a YEAR ago for the DC
> and never wanted to play enough to even break the wrapper? THAT P.O.S.?
> FPS games are slow, they're made to forgive latency, and they're brain
> dead friendly. The games are sloppy and the players are rude. Screw it.
It's a new release. Doesn't matter though, don't change the subject.
Either: A) it's a commercial release this side of 1996 not requiring
Windows or B) it is not. Personal feelings/opinion are irrelevant.
See?
>
> > One of those gnat-sized attention spanned folk who can only grasp
> instant
>
>> gratification without any effort expended.
>
>
> No effort expended? MY BUTT! How do *you* get $50 without any effort?
> That money is EARNED, and anybody who wants some of it has to do some
> EARNING too. I paid my dues in cold hard cash. I'm the boss, it works
> for me. It's a machine, it's MY machine, and I'm supposed to be the one
> receiving pleasure.
Uh-huh. (I'm a mechanic. Doesn't take me long to fleece someone like
you for $50) :-)
>
>> Text-based or 6 yr old games only on Linux. Let's see... Unreal
>> Tournament, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament 2003, SimCity 3000, SiN,
>> Soldier of Fortune, Railroad Tycoon 2, Mind Rover, Deus Ex... Yeah,
>> sure buddy.
>
>
> Name a game I actually want to play.
> Something like Swingerz Golf for the Gamecube?
I rest my case.
Irrelevant personal opinion in an attempt to change the focus once
again. These are all commercial releases, post '96, & not text based.
Although I don't see any harm in a good text based adventure now & then.
;-)
Chris Townsend
system as a point of pride speaks volumes. Hell, 8-tracks were 15+ years
gone and a bad joke back when you were trying to figure out how to get Duke
to run on Winders. Your observations are some of the funniest stuff I have
read in ages. Hate to think of you trying to set up even a simple home
theater system, or for that matter navigating through a DVD menu.
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3D95D0DE...@mindspring.com...
>
>
> Lange_666th wrote:
> > Agree but then you also have to consider this...
> > Does your console run Office programs?
> > Does your console run drawing programs?
> > Does your console run music programs?
> > Does your console run wordprocessers?
> > Does your console run database programs?
> > Does your console run mail programs?
> > Does your console run video editing programs?
> > etc....
>
> You have to consider this...
> Does anybody do that at home?
>
> > Does your console run Office programs?
>
> Silly me, I run those at the office. That's why they're Office programs.
>
> > Does your console run drawing programs?
>
> If it weren't for taking screenshots of error messages at work, I could
> honestly say that I've never run Paint in the last five years.
>
> > Does your console run music programs?
>
> Silly me, I have a stereo system to play music the old-fashioned way.
> I even play 8-tracks on it. Music programs can't do that.
>
> > Does your console run wordprocessers?
>
> I see that your spell check is running fabulously. I don't WANT a
> word processor for a toy.
>
> > Does your console run database programs?
>
> Actually, yeah, they do. That's how they manage game saves.
>
> > Does your console run mail programs?
>
> No, there's a mailbox on my porch which handles my mail needs.
> There's a whole bunch of nice people in the Post Office to do
> that. The PC is just a source of spam.
>
> > Does your console run video editing programs?
>
> Oh, there's something I do every day <sarcasm>. Who in the
> heck runs video editing programs for home use? Other than
> kiddie porn there's no real purpose for it.
>
> > Nope, it doesn't, that's why it's a console.
>
> Which is exactly what I want. The RIGHT tool for the RIGHT
> job. That's what consoles are.
>
> > And if you want it to do, you have to hook a keyboard up, a printer, and
all
> > the other stuff.
>
> If it was just hooking them up, I wouldn't be bothered. It's the
> seemingly endless patches, registrations, and configurations that
> rip the fun right out of anything associated with a PC.
>
> > And tell me then, what do you have? Yes A PC !!! with all the nice
> > installing driver problems etc...
> > There is a little effort to make when you want to run all at once.
>
> I don't deny that this is a PC. I'm about to shoot the damned thing
> with my classic 1962 J.C. Higgins Model 20 12-Gauge shotgun if it comes
> up with one more error message or another stupid question trying to PISS
> ME OFF. This is NOT a "little effort". I had my Xbox playing games
> inside of 10 minutes of opening the console's package. You can't get a
> PC to do that on a bet to save your life.
>
> > PS:
> > Why should i buy a console if i can get it to run on my PC?
>
> That's because you have to ask "if". There's no "if" in console
> gaming. It's going to run, no "if" about it. I don't like "if".
> Like Yoda said, "There is no Try. There is only Do, or Do Not".
> To Hell with "if". I don't play with "if". My world is black
> and white, and I don't accept maybe's or if's or try's. It works
> or it doesn't. "IF" is the same as "doesn't" in my house.
>
> > And even more, why should i buy a PC if i could run it on my console.
> > Would having one of those not be simpler then having them both?
>
> Simpler is the bailiwick of the console. There's no good reason to
> game on a PC. It's like racing garbage trucks. They're great at
> getting garbage, but they suck for most anything else.
>
>
Chris Townsend
about the same vintage. I learned at an early age I don't care for hunting
except for those pesky and dangerous Skeet. Remembering my first and only
Duck hunt with my father and a friend. It could have been an episode of the
3 stooges with the exception that we all knew and respected the safety rules
of firearms.
"Chris von Seggern" <cv...@nospam.attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Iyll9.435954$kp.12...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
>
> "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3D95D0DE...@mindspring.com...
> >
> >
> > Lange_666th wrote:
> > > Agree but then you also have to consider this...
> > > Does your console run Office programs?
> > > Does your console run drawing programs?
> > > Does your console run music programs?
> > > Does your console run wordprocessers?
> > > Does your console run database programs?
> > > Does your console run mail programs?
> > > Does your console run video editing programs?
> > > etc....
> >
> > You have to consider this...
> > Does anybody do that at home?
>
> Yes, plenty of people do. Join the 21st century.
>
> > > Does your console run Office programs?
> >
> > Silly me, I run those at the office. That's why they're Office
programs.
>
> The irrelevancy of this argument aside, PC's are often used as tools in
the
> home as well as the office. They aren't *just* for gaming.
>
> > > Does your console run drawing programs?
> >
> > If it weren't for taking screenshots of error messages at work, I could
> > honestly say that I've never run Paint in the last five years.
>
> So your usage pattern determines what everybody else needs too? I use
Paint
> all the time on my home PC.
>
> > > Does your console run music programs?
> >
> > Silly me, I have a stereo system to play music the old-fashioned way.
> > I even play 8-tracks on it. Music programs can't do that.
>
> You still have an 8-track player? You *are* a technophobe, aren't you?
>
> > > Does your console run wordprocessers?
> >
> > I see that your spell check is running fabulously. I don't WANT a
> > word processor for a toy.
>
> That's the whole point, genius. A PC isn't just a toy like a console is.
> It's a TOOL as much as a toy.
>
> > > Does your console run database programs?
> >
> > Actually, yeah, they do. That's how they manage game saves.
>
> When was the last time you ran Access, SQL Server, or an Oracle database
> from your Xbox?
>
> > > Does your console run mail programs?
>
> > No, there's a mailbox on my porch which handles my mail needs.
> > There's a whole bunch of nice people in the Post Office to do
> > that. The PC is just a source of spam.
>
> Effective as it is, the USPS can't get a message to the other side of the
> globe inside of five minutes. And if you know how to take a few simple
> protective steps, you can stop most of the spam.
>
> > > Does your console run video editing programs?
>
> > Oh, there's something I do every day <sarcasm>. Who in the
> > heck runs video editing programs for home use? Other than
> > kiddie porn there's no real purpose for it.
>
> I can name two people (one friend and one relative) who do this, just off
> the top of my head. Just because *you* don't run this kind of software
> doesn't mean other people don't find it useful.
>
> > > Nope, it doesn't, that's why it's a console.
> >
> > Which is exactly what I want. The RIGHT tool for the RIGHT
> > job. That's what consoles are.
>
> This much is true. If all you want is to play games, consoles are the way
> to go. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, if you want full
> access to the widest range of gaming experiences, PC gaming is where it's
> at. Some genres (like flight sims, for example) are pretty much
nonexistent
> in the console world.
>
> > > And if you want it to do, you have to hook a keyboard up, a printer,
and
> all
> > > the other stuff.
> >
> > If it was just hooking them up, I wouldn't be bothered. It's the
> > seemingly endless patches, registrations, and configurations that
> > rip the fun right out of anything associated with a PC.
>
> The only registered piece of software on my PC is XP itself. Everything
> else is legally-licensed gaming, productivity and utility software that I
> have no need to register. Patching is just a fact of life with PC's, but
it
> really isn't that big a chore.
>
> > > And tell me then, what do you have? Yes A PC !!! with all the nice
> > > installing driver problems etc...
> > > There is a little effort to make when you want to run all at once.
> >
> > I don't deny that this is a PC. I'm about to shoot the damned thing
> > with my classic 1962 J.C. Higgins Model 20 12-Gauge shotgun if it comes
> > up with one more error message or another stupid question trying to PISS
> > ME OFF. This is NOT a "little effort". I had my Xbox playing games
> > inside of 10 minutes of opening the console's package. You can't get a
> > PC to do that on a bet to save your life.
>
> Sure I can. I do it all the time. Here's an idea. Instead of shooting
the
> PC, why not just package it up and ship it to me? I'd be glad to take the
> horrible Satanic evil nasty beats-you-up-and-takes-your-lunch-money thing
> off your hands.
>
> > > PS:
> > > Why should i buy a console if i can get it to run on my PC?
> >
> > That's because you have to ask "if". There's no "if" in console
> > gaming. It's going to run, no "if" about it. I don't like "if".
> > Like Yoda said, "There is no Try. There is only Do, or Do Not".
> > To Hell with "if". I don't play with "if". My world is black
> > and white, and I don't accept maybe's or if's or try's. It works
> > or it doesn't. "IF" is the same as "doesn't" in my house.
>
> Oof. I hope you don't have children. Their lives must be hell. And
> console games *can* puke. I've had my Xbox hang on me before. It's rare,
> but it's not impossible.
>
> > > And even more, why should i buy a PC if i could run it on my console.
> > > Would having one of those not be simpler then having them both?
>
> > Simpler is the bailiwick of the console. There's no good reason to
> > game on a PC. It's like racing garbage trucks. They're great at
> > getting garbage, but they suck for most anything else.
>
> Hardly. Like I said before, there are some genres that just don't exist
for
> consoles. Especially in the sim world, PC's just plain can do things that
> consoles can't. Consoles are great for 90% of the game types that exist,
> but they aren't the be-all and end-all of electronic entertainment.
>
> Chris
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002
>
>
Chris von Seggern
>
> > Funny. Unreal Tournament 2003 has both versions (Linux & Windows) on
> > it's cd's. Look for it to become a pattern.
> > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/21/1341249&mode=thread&tid=127
>
> That would be the game I bought from a bargain bin a YEAR ago for the DC
> and never wanted to play enough to even break the wrapper? THAT P.O.S.?
> FPS games are slow, they're made to forgive latency, and they're brain
> dead friendly. The games are sloppy and the players are rude. Screw it.
Charlie-boy, you're such an idiot. Let's set aside the fact that you're
thinking of a different game, since UT2003 isn't even out yet. Let's
instead focus on your logic and your spectacular display of ignorance
regarding your subject.
First of all, if you never wanted to play the game, why did you buy it?
Personally, I find my money is better spent if I save it for games that I
want to play.
Second, how the hell can you know whatever you bought was a POS if you never
even cracked the cellophane? Was the box ugly or something? Or is it just
maybe possible that the misconceptions you're so staunchly defending here
led you to an unjustified conclusion?
And finally, it's obvious you know next to nothing about the FPS genre. I'm
assuming that the game you're thinking of was the original Unreal
Tournament. That game was anything but slow. I was running it on a PII 333
with a Voodoo3. As long as I didn't try to max the detail settings, it ran
VERY smoothly. On the Athlon 700 I upgraded to, it was like oiled glass
even with everything turned up. Nothing slow about it. And it was *not*
made to forgive latency. As someone who played this game over a dialup
connection for a long time, I can certify that ping was a big issue in this
(and any other modern shooter) title. Skill is definitely more important,
but if two players are of equal ability, the one with the lower ping will
win 90% of the time or more. You'd know this if you'd bothered to play any
of the games you're bashing.
<snip>
> Lazy doesn't have anything to do with it. When I put a game on, that's
> MY TIME, and I'm paying to be entertained. It should be a done deal.
If you're looking for such passive entertainment, might I suggest TV? You
don't have to do anything at all. No messing around with those inconvenient
consoles, with their hard-to-use gamepads and the game discs you have to
make sure you put in right-side-up. You can just sit back, turn the brain
off, and vegetate for as much of YOUR TIME as you want. Sounds like it's
much more your speed.
> If an oil change went the way PC games usually do, it'd be like this:
>
> Customer: I'm here to pick up my car. You changed the oil, right?
> Mechanic: Well, we drained it but we didn't know which brand to use.
> Customer: If I'd have cared, I'd have told you in the first place.
> Mechanic: Nope, you have to pick a favorite! We need you to pick!
> Customer: Oh, for the love of Pete! Valvoline, OKAY? Does THAT work?
> Mechanic: This is a Pennzoil shop. We don't have Valvoline.
> Customer: Then put Pennzoil into the car! I DON'T CARE! DO IT!
> Mechanic: Thank you! Your car will be ready in another hour.
> Customer: <seriously thinks about busting a cap in mechanic ass>
>
> I'm paying OTHER PEOPLE to do something for me when I buy a game.
> Either they can do the job, or they can't. If I have to lift so
> much as one finger to help them, then they can't, they're incompetent,
> and I don't want to do business with them at all.
Are you really this incapable of distinguishing between a product and a
service? When you take your car to the mechanic for an oil change, they
have YOUR vehicle right there in front of them. They know exactly what
year, make and model it is, and have references (if needed) to tell them
exactly what filter to use, where everything is located, etc. Of course
they can do it without your intervention. If you really want to draw a
parallel between oil changes and game development, it'd be more accurate to
suppose you were to call the mechanic several months before the oil change
was to be performed and tell him you wanted some work done on an
unidentified vehicle that may have two, three or four wheels, might be
gas-powered, electric or a hybrid, and might have been manufactured in any
country on the planet to any standard (or none at all) in existence. Then
you'd expect him to provide you with incredibly detailed instructions,
perfect to the letter, on exactly how this was to be accomplished, including
how many times to turn what kind of wrench and what size coveralls you
should wear while doing the work.
> > One of those gnat-sized attention spanned folk who can only grasp
instant
> > gratification without any effort expended.
>
> No effort expended? MY BUTT! How do *you* get $50 without any effort?
> That money is EARNED, and anybody who wants some of it has to do some
> EARNING too. I paid my dues in cold hard cash. I'm the boss, it works
> for me. It's a machine, it's MY machine, and I'm supposed to be the one
> receiving pleasure.
With this kind of belligerence, it's no surprise you only receive pleasure
from machines :)
> > Text-based or 6 yr old games only on Linux. Let's see... Unreal
> > Tournament, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament 2003, SimCity 3000, SiN, Soldier
> > of Fortune, Railroad Tycoon 2, Mind Rover, Deus Ex... Yeah, sure buddy.
>
> Name a game I actually want to play.
> Something like Swingerz Golf for the Gamecube?
Irrelevant. Your personal taste in games has nothing to do with what's at
issue here, which is the suitability of the PC platform for gameplay. Knock
down straw men all you want, but it won't prove anything.
Longhorn
> On Sun, 29 Sep 2002 12:29:25 -0400, "Longhorn"
> <ProjectBlackcomb__@so_hot_mail__.c0m> attempted to sound witty, but
> instead came out sounding like this... :
>
> >No, sorry, Windows can hardly be callsed bloatware on an Athlon XP2000+
PC
> >unless you're willing to call just about every other *nix or Linux OS
runing
> >the X Windowing system/X Windows (w/ KDE, GNOME, etc) bloatware too.
Even
> >more amusing is that the arguably most popular of the bunch, KDE, is
nothing
> >more than a copy of the old Windows GUI. If you don't believe me,
please,
> >be my guess and try it out for yourself. Try running Windows on the same
> >hardware you run Linux or *nix with X Windows, you'll find the PC will
> >perform/run just about the same under both enviornments. If you really
want
> >to see your Linux system choke, try using Star Office, then we can talk
> >about bloatware.
>
> Let's see, I checked my friend's Windows XP folder. 1.41 GB. Now,
> even you can't honestly say that XP requires such a large
> footprint/disk space requirement to run.
Windows 2000 will take just over a gig of space on hard drive. With the
graphic/multimedia extras, XP just takes slightly more space on a HD than
2000.
>When you start adding all
> the other 'features' that MS throws into their OSes, however, that's
> where the large footprint/disk space requirement comes in.
Here it becomes evident you are completely unaware how much hd space a
standard GNU/Linux installation takes up. Standard Linux installations (w/
Xwin, KDE & Gnome, etc) take up just about as much space as a standard
2000/Xp installation. Linux installations actually take up more HD space
than Windows if you start installing all of the bells&whisles and "features"
that Linux installation discs are jam packed with.
You seem to be under some impression that the market demands the utmost bare
essentials in an OS for a PC to "run," this is hardly the case. The market
essentially demands/requires an Internet enabled OS. Win, Mac, Linux, etc
are all Internet ready OS's, they come with browswers, email clients and the
proper software/files to establish basic Internet connections. Also a
barebones Windows installation doesn't come with a whole lot extra
"featurs," as you like to call them. A barebones Windows 2000/XP
installation will include the OS, IE, Outlook Express/messenger, media
player, a few accessories (calculator, notepad/wordpad, paint, simple games,
etc) and system tools. That is basically it.
>
> I know you like to say how that's all functionality, but in all
> honesty an OS does not need many of the programs that come bundled in
> Windows to be functional.
Again, a barebones Windows installation doesn't come with all that many
programs "bundled" in. The programs Windows is bundled with are arguably
needed for the OS to be functional *especially* in todays
Internet/Multimedia world. You're singling out Windows here for no
particular reason other than general bias. If you're going to be
intellectually honest you'd have to single out just about every other viable
OS outhere since they offer "extra" programs which aren't absolutely
essential to run a computer. When will you start griping about how the Mac
or standard Linux installations come with sooooo many bundled programs which
are not necessary to have a functional OS?
>But the bundling of IE into the Windows OS
> (which can't be removed) is not necessary,
I and many others believe the browser is an integral part of any modern
operating system. You don't seem to be angry at Apple for including IE in
Mac OS 9 & X.
> it's just another tactic to
> ensure marketshare in the Internet browser market.
no, not entirely true. MSFT won the "browswer wars" with IE 4, Netscape's
offerings were arguably inferior to that of MSFT, this holds true to this
day. Netscape 3 vs IE3 was debateable. Anything before IE 3, Netscape
clearly offered a superior product.
> The bundling of
> Outlook/Outlook Express is not necessary for the OS to function
What are you talking about? Almost everyone now who is using Windows 2000
or Windows XP is some kind of a network or has some kind of an Internet
connection. The market demands their OS feature some type of email client.
The Mac OS, GNULinux OS, etc all have some sort of email client, why are you
singling out MSFT here? I mean it is obvious youre bias against MSFT but
you're not even making a decent point anymore.
(and
> given how Outlook/Express are the easiest email clients to hit with
> viruses,
Wrong again. Technically Outlook is more susceptible to viruses than OE but
these viruses only affect users who have notoriously low security settings.
I have been use both Outlook and OE for *years* never once have I been a
victim of a malicous email virus.
>I'd say their inclusion hurts the OS more than helps it).
Well pretty much everyone else in the business world would say you're dead
wrong. Outlook is arguably the most functional personal email client on the
planet today, millions and millions of people use it today and find other
email clients sub par in comparison. MSFT truly has a winner with Outlook,
people absolutely adore it, hence its popularity. Notice how Outlooks isn't
bundled with Windows either, people pay good money to use it, and for good
reason too. OE on the other is essentially just a basic email client, one
could do better, I simply use it as a basic news reader.
> The bundling of the WMP isn't necessary.
Are you kidding me, in todays DVD, mp3, mpeg consuming world? A functional
high quality media player is absoultey important in a mulitmedia PC. Do you
single out Apple for including Quicktime in the Mac or the dozesns of Linux
distros for offering many media players in many standard Linux
installations? Doesn't look like it. The hypocrisy of your post Sam is
very evident.
>Etc. Especially when you
> consider that 2k/XP is supposed to be a server OS as well.
Huh? Windows 2000 Professional, Windows XP Home Edition, and Windows XP
Professional are supposed to be server OS's? Come on Sam, you can do better
than that, you're not even trying anymore here. The only supported widely
available server OS's MSFT has today are Windows 2000 server, advanced
server, and data center.
>There's
> absoulutely no need for half or more of those programs in a server OS.
>
Well that certainly is debatable. It all depends on what type of
media/files the computer is primarily dealing with.
>
> That's bloatware.
No it isn't, it isn't slowing down the overall performance of the OS and
essentially just about *every* gripe you've had about Windows so far can be
said about a standard Mac OS setup and a standard Linux setup. The all
include these features you apparently detest so much. Its time to come up
with a real argument Sam.
>Things bundled into the OS that are not necessary
> for the OS to perform it's job,
If I bought a new Windows powered PC ( or a PC with any other OS for that
fact) and I couldn't automatically get it on the net, browse websites, get
my email, read my newsgroups, and listen/watch various types of media files,
I would say the OS doesn't have the necessary files to perform its job. As
it stands now Windows has exactly what it needs to perform its job.
> and in some cases which hinder the
> OS/make the OS vunerable to malicious code/attack..
Not if you know anything about correct decent security/permission policies.
>
> >...you do know you can turn these off, right?
>
> Yes. But in most cases it is only after the install. They don't
> often inform you that they are putting themselves into the system
> tray. It's easy enough to turn them off, but some of them
> automatically go back into the system tray as soon as you open the
> program (the Real Player is notorius for this, hence one reason why I
> don't use it).
Sounds like you're complaining about installing crappy software on your
machine. You're supposed to be bashing Windows here, remember ;) lol
>
> >Are you insane? Only the now essentially discontinued Win 9x OSs were
> >horrible at managing resources and thats when compared to the likes of
> >NT/2000/XP/.Net. Windows NT4,2000,XP, and .Net all manage system
resources
> >remarkably well.
>
> Glad to see it only got them 9 tries to get that right.
...and yet still MSFT was leagues ahead of the competition. Apple anyone?
>But since I'm
> not running the NT kernel, nor are the majority of home users,
adoption doesn't happen over night. Millions and millions of people, both
business and home users, are already using an NT version of Windows.
>the
> fact that Windows is horrible at managing resources still stands for
> most people.
Well this is all your opinion. Windows 9x is horrible at managing resources
in comparions to a *nix style OS or an NT variant yes, but that is as far as
it goes. The fact is most home computer users don't know enough about
computers in general to know Win 9x ( or anything before Mac OS X) isn't the
best at managing resouces. This is the sad fact of the avg computer user.
>
> >lol, not really, personally, I find Netscape crashes the most on systems
> >running Linux.
>
> And IE crashes the most on systems running Windows. The point being?
The point is you originally said programs run smoother on other OS's. This
is not necessarily true as Netscape crashes many more times for me under
Linux than in Windows. Since UNIX support was recently dropped, IE is only
supported on Windows and Mac, playing the numbers alone of course IE will
crash more often on systems running Windows than the Mac. It is still
arguably the best browser on the planet.
>
> >...that is unfortunate you're running into these problems as Explorer
rarely
> >crashes on Windows systems w/ an NT kernel. Hell, if we're going to be
> >intellecutally honest here, Explorer rarely crashes on a well maintained
Win
> >9x system, its just that the likely hood of it crashing under win
> >nt/2k/xp/.net is much much smaller. Although better Explorer crashes in
Win
> >than X crashing in *nix/linux which unfortunately, frequently does
happen.
>
> I think I'll be running most of my programs from the command line,
> rather than GUIs. I always liked command lines better, even back in
> DOS days.
Hey thats cool, run programs from the command line, just make sure said
programs will not need to run in an X Windows (KDE, Gnome, etc) enviorment
or your out of luck. Not to mention just about 99.9% of any worthwhile
*nix/Linux app needs to run under X.
>
> However I went for a remarkably long time with very few crashes (over
> a year with fewer than 10 crashes) until about a month an a half ago.
> Right after downloading one of theose damn 'critical updates' from MS
> for Windows. Now I can have Explorer crash itself, literally,
> multiple times within seconds (as soon as I close the first illegal
> operation message, another one pops up, and sometimes a third), and
> this happens EVERY SINGLE DAY now, with no exceptions. And while I am
> doing such resource intensive things like clicking on a link in a web
> page, or clicking on the back button in the browser (normally in IE).
>
That certainly is a shame, sounds like a few files needed to run Win 9x/IE
properly are corrupt. These stability issues are a thing of the past with
NT/2000/XP, and the upcomming .Net.
> It's possible that this has happened because I am running the first
> edition of Windows 98 on this machine. However other people I know
> are having simmilar problems and they run Win98SE. I'm more inclined
> to think MS is releasing bad code to try and get people to see the
> 'need' to upgrade to XP. All the people I know with these crashing
> problems had them start after downloading a few recent critical update
> packages.
Honestly, this has to be one of the worst (and at the same time amusing)
conspiracy theories I've heard in a while.
> Of course you won't beleive MS would do this.
Sadly, of course you would.
>But then you also
> probably didn't think MS was using unfair, and illegal, business
> practices for years either.
The Gov't found MSFT broke the law...honestly, who cares? I feel sorry for
all those lost tax dollars spent on the trial. Considering the govts lousy
case against MSFT, it somes as no suprise that MSFT barely even got a slap
on the wrist.
>
> >This really doesn't make sense. You could just as easily say it doesn't
> >matter how fast the PC is when any other non Win OS is running on it.
>
> Unless 2k/XP has fixed the over reliance of virtual memory in Windows,
> the system will inevitably slow itself down soon enough.
Don't you get it yet? That is what I'm saying, Windows 2000/XP doesn't
become inexplicably slow for no apparent reason. Those were all DOS/legacy
issues. I've seen Win 2k computers with uptimes of over a year and it is
still as responsive as the first day it was booted.
>
> >Honestly I always giggle when I hear people say this, in no time at all
> >they're back to using Windows. Who knows, maybe you'll be the
overwhelming
> >odds and it will be true in your case. Good luck
>
> Possibly. But after all the crap I deal with on Windows, even going
> back to DOS would be an improvement for me.
lol, sure thing.
>
> >By in large you'll be limited to Open GL games, and its too bad for you
that
> >Direct X's popularity is on the rise and arguably more popular than Open
GL
> >is now a days.
>
> Ah, but I prefer OpenGL and Glide over DirectX anyway. And most of
> the games I play support them as well (and in some cases are
> programmed in one of them first, and ported to DirectX).
Great, this works out in your favor then.
magnulus
"PositiveG" <positiv...@hotmail.com-snip> wrote in message
news:p9Gl9.105035$C8.2...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> Really? I haven't seen any cache to a great degree, I wish they would.
> At least I haven't noticed any cached data left behind after the game was
> removed.
>
> I haven't noticed any impact the number of blocks free either. Like for
> ripping CDs into it.
>
A review of DOA3 I read mentioned it caches a large amount of data to the
hard disk the first time a player runs the game.
My point is it's generally much better to store data on a hard disk over a
CD or DVD-ROM- access times are much shorter. And on a PC, this is called
"installing".
Charles Doane
Xbox, yes. DC was an option, mostly used for ports from PC. Sega
released Sega Rally Championship 2 to show off what WinCE could do,
and it was, well, less than completely spectacular compared to
games like Vanishing Point and Metropolis Street Racer (Project
Gotham Racing to Xbox).
Charles Doane
Uncle Fester wrote:
> Charles Doane wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Uncle Fester wrote:
>>
>>> Charles Doane wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Doctor wrote:
>>>>
>> That would be the game I bought from a bargain bin a YEAR ago for the DC
>> and never wanted to play enough to even break the wrapper? THAT P.O.S.?
>> FPS games are slow, they're made to forgive latency, and they're brain
>> dead friendly. The games are sloppy and the players are rude. Screw it.
>
>
>
> It's a new release. Doesn't matter though, don't change the subject.
> Either: A) it's a commercial release this side of 1996 not requiring
> Windows or B) it is not. Personal feelings/opinion are irrelevant.
My point was never that there were NO new releases supporting Linux.
I'm saying that they're few and far between. You're not going to
disprove that by waving around one stupid game and saying "see! SEE!"
at me. The fact that there's been "A" commercial release is not in
contention. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that the library is
spartan at best.
<snip>
> Uh-huh. (I'm a mechanic. Doesn't take me long to fleece someone like
> you for $50) :-)
Not like I care, since I've made more than that with a 10 minute phone
call just last week.
>>> Text-based or 6 yr old games only on Linux. Let's see... Unreal
>>> Tournament, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament 2003, SimCity 3000, SiN,
>>> Soldier of Fortune, Railroad Tycoon 2, Mind Rover, Deus Ex... Yeah,
>>> sure buddy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Name a game I actually want to play.
>> Something like Swingerz Golf for the Gamecube?
>
>
>
> I rest my case.
The one you don't have? I'm sure it appreciates the down time.
> Irrelevant personal opinion in an attempt to change the focus once
> again. These are all commercial releases, post '96, & not text based.
Compared to what the PSX got since '96, it's a JOKE.
> Although I don't see any harm in a good text based adventure now & then.
Nope, Zork was cool. The parsing was hard to get used to, but the game
was solid.
Charles Doane
Chris Townsend wrote:
> LOL! The fact that you mention the ability to run 8 tracks on your "Stereo"
> system as a point of pride speaks volumes. Hell, 8-tracks were 15+ years
> gone and a bad joke back when you were trying to figure out how to get Duke
> to run on Winders. Your observations are some of the funniest stuff I have
> read in ages. Hate to think of you trying to set up even a simple home
> theater system, or for that matter navigating through a DVD menu.
8 tracks kick butt. They were just underappreciated. There's a satisfaction
in feeling that cartridge kick into place and hearing those belts wind that
can't be duplicated in any other music media.
BTW, I'm running a Dolby Pro-Logic system. Pioneer based, with Pioneers
up front and Advent minis in the rear. Advent subwoofer handles the bass.
You couldn't stand in my living room with it cranked. It would kill you.
It's knocked pictures off of my walls and things off of tables. I went a
little crazy with Mechwarrior 2 (Sega Saturn) and got the cops called to
my house investigating a neighbor's report of World War III.
My stereo ain't half-bad. I'll probably update it as soon as the standards
settle down a bit more.
Charles Doane
Chris von Seggern wrote:
>>>Funny. Unreal Tournament 2003 has both versions (Linux & Windows) on
>>>it's cd's. Look for it to become a pattern.
>>>http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/21/1341249&mode=thread&tid=127
>>
>>That would be the game I bought from a bargain bin a YEAR ago for the DC
>>and never wanted to play enough to even break the wrapper? THAT P.O.S.?
>>FPS games are slow, they're made to forgive latency, and they're brain
>>dead friendly. The games are sloppy and the players are rude. Screw it.
>
>
> Charlie-boy, you're such an idiot. Let's set aside the fact that you're
> thinking of a different game, since UT2003 isn't even out yet. Let's
> instead focus on your logic and your spectacular display of ignorance
> regarding your subject.
It's a sequel to a game I don't want to play even with it sitting on my
shelf in my house.
> First of all, if you never wanted to play the game, why did you buy it?
> Personally, I find my money is better spent if I save it for games that I
> want to play.
I don't care about money. That's not a worry of mine. I just wanted a
complete collection of Seganet games. That was a Seganet game, so in the
interests of my complete collection, I had to have it. I don't want to
play it, though.
> Second, how the hell can you know whatever you bought was a POS if you never
> even cracked the cellophane? Was the box ugly or something? Or is it just
> maybe possible that the misconceptions you're so staunchly defending here
> led you to an unjustified conclusion?
The box is extremely ugly, and I hate FPS games. The only one that ever
came close to changing my mind was HALO, but that's not a typical FPS game
by a long shot. Somebody actually thought that one through and there's not
quite as much stupidity to the "plot" (aka excuse to blast everything).
> And finally, it's obvious you know next to nothing about the FPS genre. I'm
> assuming that the game you're thinking of was the original Unreal
> Tournament. That game was anything but slow. I was running it on a PII 333
> with a Voodoo3. As long as I didn't try to max the detail settings, it ran
> VERY smoothly. On the Athlon 700 I upgraded to, it was like oiled glass
> even with everything turned up. Nothing slow about it. And it was *not*
> made to forgive latency. As someone who played this game over a dialup
> connection for a long time, I can certify that ping was a big issue in this
> (and any other modern shooter) title. Skill is definitely more important,
> but if two players are of equal ability, the one with the lower ping will
> win 90% of the time or more. You'd know this if you'd bothered to play any
> of the games you're bashing.
I *HATE* the FPS genre.
The BOTS are idiots. The AI sucks. A 12-year-old can beat them (often does).
The HUMINT online players are rude bastards. They're online for one reason,
and that's to be mean. I've played Quake III Arena on the DC several times
and the players aren't smart, they're just agressive. Run around a corner
and they're stupid enough to run right around that corner after you.
Spinfire a rocket into any corner you pass and you'll nail the dummy.
They're extremely simple-minded games, basically kiddie games to go with
the teenaged target audience they're made for, and I don't think that
beating up on foul-mouthed kiddies is a lot of fun. I play games at least
40 hours per week, I have 25 years of experience at it, and the kiddies
don't stand the chance of a glass of water at a chili cook-off of beating
me. All I get is cussing from 'em, not gameplay. If I want people to
cuss at me, I can go to the homeless shelter with a "Vote Republican"
T-shirt on. I don't need to log on to a room full of kiddies playing on
their daddy's machine to get disrespect. Screw that.
>>Lazy doesn't have anything to do with it. When I put a game on, that's
>>MY TIME, and I'm paying to be entertained. It should be a done deal.
> If you're looking for such passive entertainment, might I suggest TV? You
> don't have to do anything at all. No messing around with those inconvenient
> consoles, with their hard-to-use gamepads and the game discs you have to
> make sure you put in right-side-up. You can just sit back, turn the brain
> off, and vegetate for as much of YOUR TIME as you want. Sounds like it's
> much more your speed.
I don't watch TV much at all. I've watched two episodes of Seinfeld.
I've never watched any episode of "Friends" or "Ally McBeal" and I only
know they existed because they make the news. I've never watched one
single "Survivor", and the only reason I ever watched "Walker" was
because I was senior-sitting my dying (now dead) great aunt and she
wanted to watch it with me. I thought it sucked. Phony-baloney
plastic-banana formulaic white-hat vs. black-hat spewage. It's fun
when it's interactive, but it's not worth watching.
>>If an oil change went the way PC games usually do, it'd be like this:
>>
>>Customer: I'm here to pick up my car. You changed the oil, right?
>>Mechanic: Well, we drained it but we didn't know which brand to use.
>>Customer: If I'd have cared, I'd have told you in the first place.
>>Mechanic: Nope, you have to pick a favorite! We need you to pick!
>>Customer: Oh, for the love of Pete! Valvoline, OKAY? Does THAT work?
>>Mechanic: This is a Pennzoil shop. We don't have Valvoline.
>>Customer: Then put Pennzoil into the car! I DON'T CARE! DO IT!
>>Mechanic: Thank you! Your car will be ready in another hour.
>>Customer: <seriously thinks about busting a cap in mechanic ass>
>>
>>I'm paying OTHER PEOPLE to do something for me when I buy a game.
>>Either they can do the job, or they can't. If I have to lift so
>>much as one finger to help them, then they can't, they're incompetent,
>>and I don't want to do business with them at all.
>
>
> Are you really this incapable of distinguishing between a product and a
> service? When you take your car to the mechanic for an oil change, they
> have YOUR vehicle right there in front of them. They know exactly what
> year, make and model it is, and have references (if needed) to tell them
> exactly what filter to use, where everything is located, etc.
No, they don't. I drive a 1984 Ford Bronco II. Almost every mechanic
asks if it's a 4WD. ALL 1984 Ford Bronco II's are 4WD. It wasn't an
option. You'll never see a 2WD 1984 Bronco II. There weren't any made.
The question is therefore IGNORANT.
I was driving a 1964 Corvair in New Jersey, and (in case most don't know)
New Jersey outlaws self-service gas pumps. That's right, you have to have
some MORON pump your gas for you. So I pull into a service station in a
very cherry 1964 red Corvair convertible (top down) and a kid comes running
out to fill it up. The idiot walks around the car TWICE looking for the
gas cap and then asks me where it is. Driver's side fender, about 2 feet
from the guy you're asking, moron. Worse, it was about 3 feet from the
PUMP! Gee, silly me, parks with the gas cap next to the pump. Stupid kid.
And New Jersey law says that I have to let him touch a classic car?
That's the kind of crapola that makes me hate the east coast.
> Of course
> they can do it without your intervention. If you really want to draw a
> parallel between oil changes and game development, it'd be more accurate to
> suppose you were to call the mechanic several months before the oil change
> was to be performed and tell him you wanted some work done on an
> unidentified vehicle that may have two, three or four wheels, might be
> gas-powered, electric or a hybrid, and might have been manufactured in any
> country on the planet to any standard (or none at all) in existence. Then
> you'd expect him to provide you with incredibly detailed instructions,
> perfect to the letter, on exactly how this was to be accomplished, including
> how many times to turn what kind of wrench and what size coveralls you
> should wear while doing the work.
No, that doesn't fly. Namco had Soul Calibur available at DC's launch.
Namco had Tekken Tag Tourney available at PS2's launch. The recently
released game "Perfect Dark" for the GC had been in development nearly
three years, LONG before anyone knew what a GC was.
>> > One of those gnat-sized attention spanned folk who can only grasp
>
> instant
>
>>>gratification without any effort expended.
>>
>>No effort expended? MY BUTT! How do *you* get $50 without any effort?
>>That money is EARNED, and anybody who wants some of it has to do some
>>EARNING too. I paid my dues in cold hard cash. I'm the boss, it works
>>for me. It's a machine, it's MY machine, and I'm supposed to be the one
>>receiving pleasure.
> With this kind of belligerence, it's no surprise you only receive pleasure
> from machines :)
I'm a misanthrope. I base my life on the premise that everyone I meet is
stupider than me. It works well, because most of the time I'm right.
>>>Text-based or 6 yr old games only on Linux. Let's see... Unreal
>>>Tournament, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament 2003, SimCity 3000, SiN, Soldier
>>>of Fortune, Railroad Tycoon 2, Mind Rover, Deus Ex... Yeah, sure buddy.
>>
>>Name a game I actually want to play.
>>Something like Swingerz Golf for the Gamecube?
>
>
> Irrelevant. Your personal taste in games has nothing to do with what's at
> issue here, which is the suitability of the PC platform for gameplay. Knock
> down straw men all you want, but it won't prove anything.
Oh, is that it? Cool, I can do that.
Explain to me why I see adapters to use PS2 controllers on PC USB ports, but
there isn't any such beast going the other way around?
PC gaming sucks. They want controllers? They rob consoles with adaptors.
PC gaming blows. They want games? They rob consoles with emulators.
To heck with PC gaming! All roads of piracy lead through PC's and PC Gamers
are the ENEMY, they are the cause of everything bad concerning gaming.
This is war, and consoles are beating PC patootie every single day.
Allan Mayer
<gdo...@mindspring.com> writes:
>She abused me a heck of a lot more. I had to live with a moron.
>How many times do you have to show somebody how to use the VCR before it
>qualifies as abuse? I wasn't in any marriage, I was conned into assisted
>living.
Out of curiousity, just why then did you marry her ????????
And BTW, if these truely are the reasons that you left, you are the
one at fault.
Allan
http://members.aol.com/Thetabat/hello.html
"Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
Allan Mayer
<gdo...@mindspring.com> writes:
>My stereo ain't half-bad. I'll probably update it as soon as the standards
>settle down a bit more.
Not half good either......
Guess really good sound quality does not matter to you that much..
(The Advent speakers are not that bad though)
You want to hear really loud, you should hear my system sometime.
But then my turntable alone would buy most of your equipment :)
OCT
news:<3D986109...@mindspring.com>...
> <snip>...I play games at least
> 40 hours per week, I have 25 years of experience at it,...
You really are quite sad, aren't you?
So sad, that in your 30s (at least) you're actually chuffed to be
spending more time than most kids playing video games. And than a few
more hours a week in a newsgroup arguing over weather one genre of
games is inferior to another, or babbling on about piracy.
OCT
Billy J. Dancefloor
>> [I]t's no surprise you only receive pleasure from machines.
> I'm a misanthrope.
yeah, a misanthrope who supposedly plays in golf foursomes on the
weekend.
> I base my life on the premise that everyone I meet is stupider
> than me.
that's ignorance, not misanthropy.
> It works well, because most of the time I'm right.
i bet your breath reeks of cheetos and steak'ums this very minute.
Goy Larsen
While this thread was slightly amusing at first, it's now gotten to be
nothing but a waste of bandwidth, so could you all please stop cross
posting and leave each NG to handle their own "misanthropes", whatever
that may be....a fancier word for misfits perhaps ?
Thx in advance
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--
Wayne Bradley
haven't bought a PC game since Duke Nukem 3D then you are not exactly up to
speed on PC gaming. PC gaming changed with the advant of an OS call Win95.
You should try it!
Hmmm... Wondering if you posted with your tongue in your cheek?
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3D94FCE...@mindspring.com...
>
>
> callsignviper wrote:
> > "Scott©" <som...@somewhere.com> wrote in message
> > news:sUZk9.1323$p03.754@fe01...
> >
> >>"Joe M." <NoEma...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
> >>news:MjZk9.329189$AR1.14...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> >>
> >>>It may lack the depth and length of $40-50 PC
> >>> shooters, but at $20 it was a well priced value.
>
> >> Actually, Serious Sam for the Xbox is both versions of the game.
>
> > (snip)
> >
> > From Babbage's website: Serious Sam Gold (XBox) = $49.99 with ETA 12
> > November 2002.
> >
> > From Babbage's website: Serious Sam Gold (PC) = $29.99 with ETA 21
January
> > 2003.
> >
> > From Babbage's website: Serious Sam (Original(PC)) = $6.99 available
now.
> >
> >
> > Why would I pay $30 OR $50 when I can buy BOTH games (PC version) for
under
> > $22 ($6.99 (SS1) + $14.99 (SS2))? Actually I think I bought both
versions
> > when they were on sale for $9.99 each (several months apart, of course)
so
> > it was slightly less than $20.
> >
> > Makes me wonder about the mentality of the average console game buyer.
Have
> > they no concept of bargain hunting and/or simply refusing to pay
exorbitant
> > prices for products?
>
> Makes me wonder about the PC gamers, myself. Have they no concept of the
> value of game time? The reason that PC games are cheaper (in some cases,
> not in all as PSX games are often in the $10 range now) is that PC games
> are largely a do-it-yourself proposition. The $20 you save isn't any
> bargain if it takes an hour to get the game working. The PC gamer does a
> whole lot of the work himself; work which console games take care of.
>
> The last game I bought for XBox was Sega GT 2002, along with the Mad Catz
> MC2 wheel setup (nice wheel, btw). From the time I got home with the
> goods to the time I was playing the game with the wheel working perfectly
> was just about 10 minutes flat. You can't do that sort of thing on a
> PC at all. If you put a wheel on a PC then you get to install the
drivers,
> play 20 questions with "Install Shield", and then you get to do the same
> thing with the new game. Moreover, there's no guarantee that the game
will
> even work with that peripheral after you've spent the better part of an
> hour jumping through hoops.
>
> I quit PC gaming long ago. The last PC game I ever bought was Duke
Nukem3D,
> and after fighting with that game for days trying to tweak every setting
> just right, something snapped. I bit my lip, tasted blood and promptly
> smashed my keyboard (I hated that keyboard anyway). I will not ever fight
> to make my entertainment work again. I want entertainment that works for
> ME, not the other way around.
>
> Every other form of entertainment gives immediate gratification.
>
> Would anyone put up with a music CD that ran Install Shield? HECK NO!
> Would anyone put up with a movie DVD that installed drivers? HECK NO!
> Most folks don't even like renting videotapes that haven't been rewound.
> Console games are part of the same line of reasoning. Put them in and
> they work just like they're supposed to, no muss, no fuss, no grief.
>
> It's PC gamers who are the nutcases paying for recreation and bringing
> home aggravation. I don't call that any bargain at all. You save your
> $20, PC gamers. You'll be needing that money for therapy.
>
>
Wayne Bradley
write, lazy and dumb.
I suggest you steer clear of those new fangled contracptions call vcr's.
Those have more then 6 buttons too.
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3D95B59F...@mindspring.com...
>
>
> magnulus wrote:
> > "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:3D94FCE...@mindspring.com...
> >
> >>Every other form of entertainment gives immediate gratification.
> >>
> >>Would anyone put up with a music CD that ran Install Shield? HECK NO!
> >>Would anyone put up with a movie DVD that installed drivers? HECK NO!
> >>Most folks don't even like renting videotapes that haven't been rewound.
> >>Console games are part of the same line of reasoning. Put them in and
> >>they work just like they're supposed to, no muss, no fuss, no grief.
>
> > So what you are saying is that console gamers are lazy and/or
retarded?
>
> No, I'm saying that they want to have FUN! You've heard of that, right?
> FUN? Where you enjoy what you're doing? Have a pleasant experience?
> There's NOTHING pleasant about fighting with a setup program that can't
> even detect what freakin' sound card you have. Why in the heck should
> I have to know that I'm running a Soundblaster 32 with an IRQ of 7 and
> an IO address of 220? I WANT TO PLAY A GAME. I'm on my free time, I'm
> looking for something to do, and playing "how well do you know your PC's
> config" is not my idea of a game. I WANT TO PLAY A GAME!
>
> No, I don't want to fill out a survey.
> No, I don't want to register online.
> No, I don't want to install Adobe Acrobat reader.
> No, I don't want to receive e-mail offers.
> No, I don't want to get a trial subscription to a sucky magazine.
>
> I WANT TO PLAY THE DAMNED GAME! Is that too much to ask? I want to
> take the disc, put it in the drive, and PLAY. It's such a simple
> request. Consoles have been doing that for over a decade now, but
> can PC's do that? NO! They insist on pissing me off.
>
> >>It's PC gamers who are the nutcases paying for recreation and bringing
> >>home aggravation. I don't call that any bargain at all. You save your
> >>$20, PC gamers. You'll be needing that money for therapy.
>
> > I can't remember the last time I had any big problems with my computer
> > getting games to run. It must have been over a year ago. All that
stuff
> > you are brining up is old, tired arguements.
>
> That's total B.S.
> I just bought a new monitor (plug and pray, hehehe) for my new PC. The
> MONITOR (Viewsonic) came with an install disc. This is SEVEN YEARS after
> Windows 95 promised Plug-and-Play, and EASY things like VGA monitors still
> come with driver discs. Even worse, the "autorun" didn't even work.
> Apparently Windows XP is such an upgrade that silly things like
autobooting
> discs are a thing of the past. I had to look at the autorun file to see
> which program the damned install wanted to run, run it, and then I had to
> know that Windows XP is basically a sequel to Windows 2000 which is
basically
> a sequel to Windows NT. Otherwise I wouldn't have known to grab the
drivers
> for NT. THAT SUCKS. Plus it had to restart the machine. That's
PATHETIC.
>
> I'm not technologically illiterate. Far from it, I'm a telecommunications
> field technician and I'm used to fighting with broken machines all the
time
> (and winning), but I get PAID to do that because it's work. I don't want
to
> do that when I'm trying to PLAY.
>
> If a console game worked like that the console wouldn't sell worth beans.
> It's unbelievable. I can put a game into my Sega Saturn running a Hitachi
> SH2 at 28 Mhz and be playing in less than a minute. I can't get this
> stupid AthlonXP2000+ (supposedly better than a Pentium 4 2Ghz) to do
> anything new that quickly, and it's SUPPOSED to be 70 times faster? I
sure
> don't see it. PC's are junkpiles next to consoles, because they're so
> bogged down by all their crapola that they don't get the rubber to the
road.
> It's like driving a Ferrari on metal rims. It doesn't matter what's under
> the hood if the power ain't getting to the user.
Wayne Bradley
>
> "Mitch_A" <naman...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:wTkl9.45$jd7.17...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> > When and IF the console games reach the quality of current PC games with
> all
> > of the required accessories, as in a KB, internet connection,
> wheels/pedals,
> > hotas's, etc etc then maybe I'll plunk down my $150. Till then there
> isn't
> > any comparison of the two platforms.
> >
>
> Consoles already have keyboards, but I can say from experience they are
> not that useful like on a PC. You can get racing wheels for a console,
too.
> I'm not a big racing fan, but I have Gran Turismo 3 for my PS2 that I
bought
> on sale and I like playing it. I just use a gamepad.
> The graphics are great, but they are a lot more jaggy than what I'd get on
a
> PC and sometimes my eyes get tired of looking at the murky image.
>
> No HOTAS on a console, yet. I can't see a sim with that steep of a
> learning curve ever selling to a mass market audience. Playstation had a
> port of Gunship 2000 that was great, though, and the gamepad had alot of
> shift functions built in.
>
> > When you can play Nascar 2002 on your Sega Saturn in under a minute then
> > come talk to us :-)
> >
>
> You can run it on PS2, and I assume there's an XBox version (I rented
it,
> wasn't real thrilled with PS2 version, too much jaggies). The PC version
is
> pretty much the same game, BTW.
Ah... no you can't! Papy does not have a console game out at this time.
You consolers have lotsa smarts don't yah?
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:3D95B59F...@mindspring.com...
> > >
> > >
Wayne Bradley
Shut the hell up man. You are absolutley clueless. Your arguements had
validity about 7 years ago. And even those supposed "facts" are wrong. Just
quite down while your behind.
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3D96B373...@mindspring.com...
>
>
> Sam Altersitz wrote:
> > On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 06:58:55 -0700, Charles Doane
> > <gdo...@mindspring.com> attempted to sound witty, but instead came out
> > sounding like this... :
> >
> >
> >>That's total B.S.
> >>I just bought a new monitor (plug and pray, hehehe) for my new PC. The
> >>MONITOR (Viewsonic) came with an install disc. This is SEVEN YEARS
after
> >>Windows 95 promised Plug-and-Play, and EASY things like VGA monitors
still
> >>come with driver discs. Even worse, the "autorun" didn't even work.
> >>Apparently Windows XP is such an upgrade that silly things like
autobooting
> >>discs are a thing of the past. I had to look at the autorun file to see
> >>which program the damned install wanted to run, run it, and then I had
to
> >>know that Windows XP is basically a sequel to Windows 2000 which is
basically
> >>a sequel to Windows NT. Otherwise I wouldn't have known to grab the
drivers
> >>for NT. THAT SUCKS. Plus it had to restart the machine. That's
PATHETIC.
> >
> >
> > Most monitors are pllug and pray, moron. However, if you have drivers
> > for them ,then you can use your video card and the monitor to their
> > best abilities. Without the drivers, you often can't set the refresh
> > rate on monitors above 60 hz, for example.
>
> What monitor made in the last decade can't pull off better than 60 Hz?
> I think default has been 75 Hz since back in the Windows 3.1 days.
> If the PC would PICK A VIDEO CHIPSET and stay with it the PC would be
> a lot more viable of an option for gaming, but as it is, it's horrible.
>
> The power PC gamer goes and buys himself a $300 video card, the latest
> and greatest, and then what? He finds that there's not but two or three
> games on the planet that support the thing. So he's screwed.
>
> The budget PC gamer goes and buys himself a $50 video card, one which
> will run most of the games, and then he sees something like Doom III
> coming down the pike and his video card won't support that. So he's
> screwed too.
>
> No matter which route a PC gamer takes, he's gonna get shafted.
>
> >>If a console game worked like that the console wouldn't sell worth
beans.
> >>It's unbelievable. I can put a game into my Sega Saturn running a
Hitachi
> >>SH2 at 28 Mhz and be playing in less than a minute. I can't get this
> >>stupid AthlonXP2000+ (supposedly better than a Pentium 4 2Ghz) to do
> >>anything new that quickly, and it's SUPPOSED to be 70 times faster? I
sure
> >>don't see it. PC's are junkpiles next to consoles, because they're so
> >>bogged down by all their crapola that they don't get the rubber to the
road.
> >>It's like driving a Ferrari on metal rims. It doesn't matter what's
under
> >>the hood if the power ain't getting to the user.
> >
> >
> > Well, most of the bogging down in PCs comes from one place: Windows
> > and its bloatware. Add in that multiple other programs like to set
> > themselves up to auto run as soon as your PC starts, and you're losing
> > resources (not even taking into account how horrible Windows is at
> > managing resources to begin with).
>
> I've always believed that to be the main reason there's never been a
> good fighter on a PC. All of the software drivers cause far too much
> latency to ever hope to play any game with 100 millisecond or less
> timing windows.
>
> > Try using a different OS and see if the same bog down issues happen.
> > Granted, you won't find as much program support on the other OSes, but
> > 9 out of 10 times you will find that the programs run smoother, and
> > the entire PC runs smoother all the time without G%^ damn Explorer
> > crashing every 5 seconds.
>
> I wouldn't mind doing that except for the fact that practically all
> documents I work with tend to be in a Microsoft format (ie. DOC or
> MDB) and I need to view those.
>
> > It really doesn't matter how fast the PC is when it has Windows
> > running on it. Hell, as son as I get my Linux box up and running, I
> > won't ever need to use this Windows one ever again, unless a game I
> > want to play doesn't have Linux drivers.
>
> Which probably means that all of your old games are junk and you won't
> be able to play them. Which is par for the course on a PC. I don't
> know why people even bother claiming that PC's are backwards compatible.
> They really aren't, and the more specialized the app the less likely it
> will be supported in the future. Games are pretty specialized apps when
> it comes right down to it, so they're among the least likely to work in
> the future.
Wayne Bradley
may explode otherwise you dolt!
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3D95BB5F...@mindspring.com...
>
>
> Bob Perez wrote:
> > "Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:3D94FCE...@mindspring.com...
> >
> > <snip history of problems running PC games>
> >
> >>I quit PC gaming long ago. The last PC game I ever bought was Duke
> >
> > Nukem3D,
> >
> > LOL well no wonder all you can recount are horror stories of playing PC
> > games, ROFL! You might want to consider waking up to the 21st century
and
> > trying out the 8 or 9 versions of Windows that have come out since then.
> > Life is pretty good on the PC gaming side now. Sheesh. (rolls eyes)
>
> I just got to play with Windows XP. On this machine, I mean the one I'm
> posting on. It sucks. I still haven't fixed my Logitech trackball (dumb
> box thinks it's a PS/2 mouse), it took me great effort to get the drivers
> working for my "plug and play" monitor, and I had to install my scanner.
>
> This is 2002. Windows 95 was supposed to fix all of that. Yeah, there
> has been 8 or 9 versions of Windows since then, and I've used most of
> 'em. There's not supposed to BE any installation anymore. So why does
> everything still come with installation discs? It's pathetic.
>
> I can honestly say that I've never had a console game ask me if I wanted
> a full or a custom install. They tend to say "Press Start".
> I've never had a console say "new hardware detected, would you like to
> install drivers for it?". That is bar none the stupidest damned question
> ever. It's not there for the LOOKS, you dumb freaking box! For a console
> to match that stupidity, it would have to say "new game detected, would
> you like to play it?".
>
> PLAY IT! JUST GO AHEAD AND PLAY IT! There's nothing that pushes my
> buttons like stupidity. If it's THERE, it's because I put it THERE,
> so I want it THERE. Is that logic too hard to follow? Why can't a
> PC get that? Consoles do. My Xbox doesn't ask about new hardware when
> I plug in the joystick for a few rounds of DOA3. It just does it.
>
> I hate PC's. Inefficient pieces of crap get beat all to hell by
> consoles with less than a quarter of their power.
Wayne Bradley
"magnulus" <magn...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:71Wl9.86172$5M3.3...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
Charles Doane
Wayne Bradley wrote:
> Ah... It is quite obvious that you are talking out of your ass. If you
> haven't bought a PC game since Duke Nukem 3D then you are not exactly up to
> speed on PC gaming. PC gaming changed with the advant of an OS call Win95.
> You should try it!
>
> Hmmm... Wondering if you posted with your tongue in your cheek?
Hey there, you PC guru! Why don't you check my headers? I'm not
forging them, that's really Windows NT 5.1, aka Windows XP.
I keep up with OSes, I just don't do it for pleasure. I've already
got Service Pack 1 installed, but I can't say that it was fun doing
it. I HATE PC's! I hate being asked where to go when I'm the
passenger. I've installed every single Windows product made this
side of Windows 2.0, and not one of them have been fun.
So far this machine has been one seriously stable platform. Heck,
I can't honestly say I've ever seen a Windows XP crash.
Considering all I've done to this machine, that's saying something.
I think a lot of the credit goes to not playing any damned games.
My Lara (a self-built PC after my Pentium90 smoked) worked GREAT
after I fired her from gaming. She's still going strong and she
does a great job running on Windows98SE. That machine was never
down for one single day in five years and she's still running.
For a PC, that's pretty impressive. My 1978 Atari VCS has a better
track record, but I digress.
The point is, games screw up PC's. I'm pretty much the maintenance
guy for my Mom's 400Mhz Celeron with 128 MB of RAM (I built that
machine) and EVERY TIME she calls me for help fixing the stupid
box it's because she downloaded a game or bought some cheapie
collection at CompUSA. I *never* have to fix Lara, and Lara is
WAY inferior to a Celeron. But I don't *game* on Lara, either.
Therefore, PC instability is a function of trying to play games on
them. Anybody wanting a stable PC will fire it from gaming.
I know it worked for me.
Call this Windows XP with an AMDXP2000+ fired from gaming. I've
got better platforms, ones that won't crash when they see a game.
magnulus
"Wayne Bradley" <wayneb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:anagr6$h54$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu...
> Yeah and the X-box is not installing or caching! So whats your point?
>
But it does cache data to the hard disk. Or do you think you need 10
gigabytes just to store game saves?
Karl Forsberg
<SNIP>
> No, I'm saying that they want to have FUN! You've heard of that, right?
> FUN? Where you enjoy what you're doing? Have a pleasant experience?
> There's NOTHING pleasant about fighting with a setup program that can't
> even detect what freakin' sound card you have. Why in the heck should
> I have to know that I'm running a Soundblaster 32 with an IRQ of 7 and
> an IO address of 220? I WANT TO PLAY A GAME. I'm on my free time, I'm
> looking for something to do, and playing "how well do you know your PC's
> config" is not my idea of a game. I WANT TO PLAY A GAME!
>
Let me guess: You have just crawled out from beneath the rock under
which you have been sleeping for most of the last decade.
<SNIP>
>
Charles Doane
HEY man! Don't be dissin' sleeping under rocks until you've tried it!
A nice warm boulder retains the heat of the day all night long, and
there's nothing that can match it for firmness. Rocks are natural,
they have no cholesterol and they do not stain! They even make good
pets! So don't delay, make a rock yours today. They're a limited
natural resource you cannot take for granite.
Chris von Seggern
My five-year-old nephew is capable of more cogent discourse than Charlie is.
<Plonk>
Chris
"Charles Doane" <gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3D986109...@mindspring.com...
<snip>
> > Charlie-boy, you're such an idiot. Let's set aside the fact that you're
> > thinking of a different game, since UT2003 isn't even out yet. Let's
> > instead focus on your logic and your spectacular display of ignorance
> > regarding your subject.
>
> It's a sequel to a game I don't want to play even with it sitting on my
> shelf in my house.
>
> > First of all, if you never wanted to play the game, why did you buy it?
> > Personally, I find my money is better spent if I save it for games that
I
> > want to play.
>
> I don't care about money. That's not a worry of mine. I just wanted a
> complete collection of Seganet games. That was a Seganet game, so in the
> interests of my complete collection, I had to have it. I don't want to
> play it, though.
>
<snip>
> The box is extremely ugly, and I hate FPS games. The only one that ever
> came close to changing my mind was HALO, but that's not a typical FPS game
> by a long shot. Somebody actually thought that one through and there's
not
> quite as much stupidity to the "plot" (aka excuse to blast everything).
<snip>
> I *HATE* the FPS genre.
> The BOTS are idiots. The AI sucks. A 12-year-old can beat them (often
does).
> The HUMINT online players are rude bastards. They're online for one
reason,
> and that's to be mean. I've played Quake III Arena on the DC several
times
> and the players aren't smart, they're just agressive. Run around a corner
> and they're stupid enough to run right around that corner after you.
> Spinfire a rocket into any corner you pass and you'll nail the dummy.
>
> They're extremely simple-minded games, basically kiddie games to go with
> the teenaged target audience they're made for, and I don't think that
> beating up on foul-mouthed kiddies is a lot of fun. I play games at least
> 40 hours per week, I have 25 years of experience at it, and the kiddies
> don't stand the chance of a glass of water at a chili cook-off of beating
> me. All I get is cussing from 'em, not gameplay. If I want people to
> cuss at me, I can go to the homeless shelter with a "Vote Republican"
> T-shirt on. I don't need to log on to a room full of kiddies playing on
> their daddy's machine to get disrespect. Screw that.
<snip>
> No, they don't. I drive a 1984 Ford Bronco II. Almost every mechanic
> asks if it's a 4WD. ALL 1984 Ford Bronco II's are 4WD. It wasn't an
> option. You'll never see a 2WD 1984 Bronco II. There weren't any made.
> The question is therefore IGNORANT.
>
> I was driving a 1964 Corvair in New Jersey, and (in case most don't know)
> New Jersey outlaws self-service gas pumps. That's right, you have to have
> some MORON pump your gas for you. So I pull into a service station in a
> very cherry 1964 red Corvair convertible (top down) and a kid comes
running
> out to fill it up. The idiot walks around the car TWICE looking for the
> gas cap and then asks me where it is. Driver's side fender, about 2 feet
> from the guy you're asking, moron. Worse, it was about 3 feet from the
> PUMP! Gee, silly me, parks with the gas cap next to the pump. Stupid
kid.
> And New Jersey law says that I have to let him touch a classic car?
> That's the kind of crapola that makes me hate the east coast.
>
<snip>
> No, that doesn't fly. Namco had Soul Calibur available at DC's launch.
> Namco had Tekken Tag Tourney available at PS2's launch. The recently
> released game "Perfect Dark" for the GC had been in development nearly
> three years, LONG before anyone knew what a GC was.
<snip>
> I'm a misanthrope. I base my life on the premise that everyone I meet is
> stupider than me. It works well, because most of the time I'm right.
>
<snip>
> > Irrelevant. Your personal taste in games has nothing to do with what's
at
> > issue here, which is the suitability of the PC platform for gameplay.
Knock
> > down straw men all you want, but it won't prove anything.
>
> Oh, is that it? Cool, I can do that.
>
> Explain to me why I see adapters to use PS2 controllers on PC USB ports,
but
> there isn't any such beast going the other way around?
> PC gaming sucks. They want controllers? They rob consoles with adaptors.
> PC gaming blows. They want games? They rob consoles with emulators.
>
> To heck with PC gaming! All roads of piracy lead through PC's and PC
Gamers
> are the ENEMY, they are the cause of everything bad concerning gaming.
> This is war, and consoles are beating PC patootie every single day.
>
> --
> Oh, oh. Here come those crazy aliens again. Help me, Elllleeot!
> Help me get home! (Atari 2600 E.T. manual, worst game ever made)
>
Joe M.
> Ah... It is quite obvious that you are talking out of your ass. If you
> haven't bought a PC game since Duke Nukem 3D then you are not exactly up
to
> speed on PC gaming. PC gaming changed with the advant of an OS call
Win95.
> You should try it!
>
> Hmmm... Wondering if you posted with your tongue in your cheek?
He did post with his tongue in his cheek. It's unavoidable for someone
whose head is so far up his ass.
Charles certainly gives new meaning to the phrase tongue-in-cheek. :0)
--
Joe M.
Charles Doane
Chris von Seggern wrote:
> That's it, I'm done with this thread. This guy is obviously just a troll.
> My five-year-old nephew is capable of more cogent discourse than Charlie is.
> <Plonk>
You're the idiot who can't even trim a post you're not even responding to.
Good riddance, as you never had a good thing to say anyway.
jon
>
>
>They're a limited
> natural resource you cannot take for granite.
>
LOL.
Ohhh, you stupid stupid fucking idiot troll.....
Now you've gone and made me laugh....
ROFLMAO !!
Vern Pellerin
><gdo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>I plug in the joystick for a few rounds of DOA3. It just does it.
Try printing out your resume on an X-box. Try faxing from your X-box. Try
cropping digital photos on your X-box. Try any one of a billion things that
computers do, besides games. Due to the complexity, the computer will never
be a perfect solution for gaming. But along with some disadvantages for
gaming (lack of consistent hardware) all the incredible flexibility that a
computer has also gives it several advantages over a console, yes even for
gaming. I'm into flight sims, and I use a Thrustmaster Cougar and CH
Pro rudder pedals. Try plugging those items into your X-box and custom
programming your preferred buttons.
Charles Doane
I've got a CH Products flightstick working on the Xbox, and it's custom
programmable to boot. I use the Innovation X-connection and the CH Products
Gamestick for the PSX, which works just fine. I can run that stick on the
PSX, DC, PS2, Saturn and Xbox. It's possible to get flexibility in console
controllers if you're savvy.
The PC is a general purpose machine. That's what it's for, and that's what
it does. Games are special purpose apps which do benefit from special
equipment. A keyboard and mouse were never meant to take the punishment of
a gaming session, and they often don't fare well as a result. PC's weren't
ever designed for games, and they've never done exceptionally well at them
unless there is a bunch of special-purpose widgets thrown into it which cost
as much (or more) than a console would in the first place.
Don Burnette
Pc's kick the consoles butts when it comes to gaming.
Much more depth than a console!
Don Burnette
Don Burnette
Pc's kick the consoles butts when it comes to gaming.
Don Burnette
Pc's kick the consoles butts when it comes to gaming.
Don Burnette
Pc's kick the consoles butts when it comes to gaming.
Don Burnette
Sorry for the mulitple posts, don't know what happened there.
Don Burnette wrote:
Chris Townsend
"Don Burnette" <d.bur...@clothescomcast.net> wrote in message
news:n2tm9.353282$216.14...@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
The Enigmatic One
magn...@bellsouth.net says...
>> Would anyone put up with a music CD that ran Install Shield? HECK NO!
>> Would anyone put up with a movie DVD that installed drivers? HECK NO!
>> Most folks don't even like renting videotapes that haven't been rewound.
>> Console games are part of the same line of reasoning. Put them in and
>> they work just like they're supposed to, no muss, no fuss, no grief.
>>
>
> So what you are saying is that console gamers are lazy and/or retarded?
I don't know I'd say that...I would say that he's saying that he's lazy
and/or retarded.
-Tim
Charles Doane
Chris Townsend wrote:
> Well.............. you know, damn complicated PCs.
I think that was the "more depth" that he was talking about.
PC gamers are simpletons. Go into a video game store, and
look at who's still being sold games with the biggest, silliest,
most outlandish boxes. The box for "Return to Wolfenstein"
could have housed a family of four. Homeless people dig them
out of dumpsters to make condominiums out of. The Air Force
wants them to dump on Iraq to scare the heck out of Saddam
Hussein with. NASA is looking at them as cheap disposable
launch pads for the Space Shuttle missions. They're HUGE!
The only other form of entertaiment left coming in boxes
anywhere near that size are porn videotapes, so there you go.
That's the mentality of people who think that bigger=better.
> "Don Burnette" <d.bur...@clothescomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:n2tm9.353282$216.14...@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
>
>>Dang,
>>
>>Sorry for the mulitple posts, don't know what happened there.
>>
>>
>>
>>Don Burnette wrote:
>>
>>
>
>
>