flat response ear plugs, yeh right
BSM
sound but do a good job of saving your ears. i wou;d never mix with them,
mixed the gig then put them in to protect my ears during the rest of the
show.
today i bought a pair of FLAT RESPONSE ear plugs, what a load of BS tried em
out and althugh they were obviosly flatter than the foam plugs them
instantly took 10 - 20k down by a lot more than any other freq. they also
claim to give a 20db attenuation. same as foam plugs, but on comparison
they didnt apear to cut as much level as the foam plugs.
are there any truly flat response ear plugs? with true 20db attenuation?
BSM
Mike Tulley
In my (limited) experience, the more attenuation they have, the less
likely they are to be flat. I have a pair of custom ear molds with
15dB attenuator inserts. They're much better than foam, and better
than the 20dB "flat response" plugs, but less than perfect.
I am told that I can get 10dB inserts for my earmolds that are even
flatter, but when we're hitting 110dBA at FOH, I prefer the 15dB
attenuation.
I still set up the mix without the plugs, then put them in for most of
the show.
Mike T.
BillHart,KarenPierce
BSM wrote:
> claim to give a 20db attenuation.
If that is a single number in big print on the package, it is a
regulatory agency "safety rating" which has all kinds of margin built in
for variables like sloppy fit or incomplete insertion, and worst case
noise spectrum vs. ear damage sensitivity. That means there is probably
no frequency attenuated as little as 20 dB and most frequencies a lot
more.
I have a pair of the generic musician's earplugs and find them rather
muffling even though better than the foamies.
I wish someone would sell something cheap (by the gross) with lower
attenuation (maybe made of less dense foam). They would probably have
to label them "For listening comfort only--not for hearing safety", and
would have a 0 or 5 dB regulatory rating even though they typically had
10 to 20 dB of attenuation. It should be a big seller at concerts
attended by people over age 30.
BH
Blind Joni
>attenuation (maybe made of less dense foam). They would probably have
>to label them "For listening comfort only--not for hearing safety", and
>would have a 0 or 5 dB regulatory rating even though they typically had
>10 to 20 dB of attenuation. It should be a big seller at concerts
>attended by people over age 30.
>
I have some swimmer plugs that fit the outside of your ear and give about 6db
reduction above 1K..which is often just enough in many situations..plus they
don't have to be inserted.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
Peter Larsen
> in the past ive just used the cheap foam ear plugs,
> completely muffle the sound but do a good job of
> saving your ears.
The yellow EAR's are god protection devices, and also quite usable for
going to a loud concert.
> i wou;d never mix with them,
That could be problematic, depending on how much hearing damage you
already have. Basically what they do is to provide you with the "rock
ears". Try getting an audiogram taken instantly after a loud concert if
you do not believe this.
You do not seem to understand the vital difference between "frequency
response" and treshold curve, nor that the brain makes a lot of
post-processing of what is heard, including that it auto-equalizes to
what appears to be probable. It has to do this because of the extreme
(20+ dB) variations in threshold response of the hearing during a normal
day.
The ears apply a constant multiband bandriding so as to able to suppress
what "just is there" and be able to detect something that is different.
This is the very mechanism of a temporary threshold shift. The sense of
hearing is a 360 degrees early warning system.
/* That mechanism also explains why some music is darn boring after
listening to quality composed music from say Noergaard's pen .... */
You should not equalize upper midrange and treble with them, and mixing
a triangle would be problematic. That said: mixing and balancing has to
do with the range between 200 and 1500 Hz, that is where it is done. If
the rest of the frequency range of the sound sources is sanely rendered,
then it will be right.
> today i bought a pair of FLAT RESPONSE ear plugs,
Audioologers do not care much for anything above 8 kHz.
> what a load of BS tried em out and althugh they were
> obviosly flatter than the foam plugs them
> instantly took 10 - 20k down by a lot more than any other freq.
It doesn't take much mass to attenuate treble and lossy mass of some
kind is required for attenuation. It makes perfect sense that you
experience it like that and you could well be right.
> they also claim to give a 20db attenuation. same as foam
> plugs, but on comparison they didnt apear to cut as much
> level as the foam plugs.
You contradict yourself. They do not cut as much level as foam plugs
because quality foam plugs tend to provide more of a threshold shift at
4 kHz and above. Their spec is:
63: 22.3; 125: 22.3; 250: 24.6; 500: 26.9;
1k: 27.4; 2k: 34.1; 4k: 41.6; 8k 40.4
A caveat: this spec probably assumes all of the plug properly inserted,
one of the risks with a plug that is not properly inserted is in my
experience treble leakage. I have however always felt that these plugs
attenuate too much for my context of use and thus shortened them as
previously described.
> are there any truly flat response ear plugs?
> with true 20db attenuation?
It is very probable that the ones you got provide a fairly linear 20 dB
threshold shift in the range from 20 Hz to 8 kHz, and that probably is
what their spec is down in the fine print. This means that you get a lot
more electrical guitar overtones at 2k5 with them than with yellow EAR
used as per manufacturers instructions, but about the same amount of
bass +/- one shovel.
What you do not understand, and what makes the wording "frequency
response" totally misleading in the context of earplugs is the mechanism
of recruitment. Simply explained: if it gets some few, 5 probably, dB
above the hearing threshold in a "critical band" (magic wording, go
google!) then the brain can make full use of the signal and no loss is
apparent, but getting used to it time is. The effect of this is that
sounds just about the threshold appear to get drastically louder for the
first few dB above the threshold, they go very rapidly from not at all
detected to quality hifi.
Especially now that I am getting deafer by age and after a few
"unpleasant sonic events" I have to start wearing the yellow EAR's well
ahead of getting into noise if I want to be able to hear speech well. If
you want to benefit optimally from earplugs, the allow a full hour of
"low noise" acclimatisation" and then keep them in for the duration of
the noise exposure. It is possible that it is extremely unsafe to remove
them for short periods while in the noise *because* wearing the plugs to
me appear to disable the hearings own protection mechanisms.
> BSM
Oh, this gets a x-post to alt.support.tinnitus, pleas remove the x-post
if you follow up for one newsgroup only. I do not currently read
alt.support.tinnitus, so do not expect me to follow up there.
Oh2, please note that I am not a qualified audiologist or sumthing, I'm
just me. Some of the above could be incorrect or incorrectly rendered,
mind you: this is usenet ...
Seasons Greetings & Kind regards
Peter Larsen
--
***************************************************************
* \\\\\\\ Quality Ascii handcrafted by Peter Larsen /////// *
* \\\\\\\ My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk /////// *
*********************************************************
E. Hill
These are just the filters (that snap onto your custom molded plug):
http://www.earinc.com/p2-specialty-musician-filt.php
You can get them flat to about -15 dB. I've learned to mix with them, even
with the -25 dB set. Just depends on the situation, and how familiar I am
with the material.
Eric
Leon Trotsky
"BSM" <bsm...@btopenworld.com> wrote in
news:bs9thn$ofj$1...@titan.btinternet.com:
>
> today i bought a pair of FLAT RESPONSE ear plugs, what a load of BS
>
>
> are there any truly flat response ear plugs? with true 20db
> attenuation?
>
>
> BSM
>
>
The BEST earplugs are Silly Putty. Don't laugh, it works great, totally
flat response and infinately variable as to how much gain reduction you
want. If you don't live in the United States, you probably won't know what
Silly Putty is, but its a kids toy, it's silicon putty. Available for
about $2 in any kids store. Lasts virtually forever.
Mike Tulley
wrote:
I think he's puttying us on. The stuff melts and flows when you warm
it in your hands. I'm not sure that current medical science is ready
to try to remove Silly Putty from deep inside my ears. I know I'm not
ready to explain it to the ER triage nurse! After they finally stopped
laughing, they would probably send me to the back of the line for
being stupid.
I have some 15dB ear plugs that are, well, far from perfect, but
better than going deaf.
Mike T.
Leon Trotsky
news:innr80lcg17bce04m...@4ax.com:
>>The BEST earplugs are Silly Putty. Don't laugh, it works great,
>>totally flat response and infinately variable as to how much gain
> I think he's puttying us on. The stuff melts and flows when you warm
> it in your hands. I'm not sure that current medical science is ready
> to try to remove Silly Putty from deep inside my ears. I know I'm not
> ready to explain it to the ER triage nurse! After they finally stopped
> laughing, they would probably send me to the back of the line for
> being stupid.
>
No I'm not putting you on, and it never has melted on me in 15+ years of
using it. You must be confusing Silly Putty with something else.
Also, you don't jam it in your ears, you sort of make a donut shape or a
"U" shape and press it onto your ear canal so its not closing off the ear
canal, but simply making the opening smaller. It allows the same sound
frequencies to come in but just at a lower volume.
It is very very simple to adjust, you just pull it out or push it in a tiny
bit to control the volume. It works wonders. Don't knock it until you
have tried it.
Mike Tulley
wrote:
>Mike Tulley <mkt...@invalid.telusplanet.net> wrote in
Well, I'll admit that it's been a long time since I handled Silly
Putty! Does it sound good enough that I won't be constantly popping my
ear plugs out to hear what the mix REALLY sounds like?
Mike T.
Battleax
"Leon Trotsky" <tro...@kremlin.ru> wrote in message
news:Xns94D9F1E4284B...@199.45.49.11...
The problem with silly-putty is that it's an excellent medium for habouring
bacteria. Add to this ear wax and skin cells from your ear and it becomes
even worse. Impossible to clean once it's all folded in.
B
Leon Trotsky
news:OIudnVDMBtS...@magma.ca:
> The problem with silly-putty is that it's an excellent medium for
> habouring bacteria. Add to this ear wax and skin cells from your ear
> and it becomes even worse. Impossible to clean once it's all folded
> in. B
Well, you know you don't keep it for five years! Also, if you shower and
wash your ears well you won't have all that gunk getting in the Silly
Putty!
You just tear off a tiny piece, use it for a week or two, then discard it.
The container holds about an ounce of silly putty and lasts me for about 3
months before I have used it all up. Great deal for only $2.
13online
Good people.
Cheers.
In article <Xns94D9F1E4284B...@199.45.49.11>,