On some Gita verses
Avinash Sathaye
Strictly speaking, the enclosed file is not related to yogavasishtha. However, it is a detailed commentary on five verses on Gita that I composed and I have also added detailed comments on them for a general audience.
It can certainly be related to some of the philosophy that we all think about.
I hope you find it interesting.
All comments, including editorial suggestions are welcome.
-- -- With Best Regards, Avinash Sathaye Web: www.msc.uky.edu/sohum
Krishnanand Mankikar
puṇyaṁ parahitakaraṇaṁ nityaṁ pāpaṁ parapīḍājanakaṁ yat
Is this there in the Geeta or is this your summation of the Geeta thoughts?
Regards
Krishnanand.
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JF
|
Dear Avinash!
Thank you for the beautiful verses and commentary. As a matter of habit, I noted a few typos while perusing the text. You should be able to locate them using a search function.
paryers - prayers
devotion. here - devotion. Here
with only with - with only (or only with)
action. of course - action. Of course
achive - achieve
experts.. - experts. (heading)
doen - done
The contents is nice reading. It is also nice for a change to find a short text which is rich in content, yet illustrated with appropriate "modern" examples.
May I suggest that you publish it on e.g. Scribd (www.scribd.com)? (If you wish, I can do it for you).
Hari Om
Vasishtha-fan
|
Avinash Sathaye
The last verse is certainly not from Gita.
As I wrote in my comments, it is often ascribed to Vyasa - this is what they say:
aSTAdazapurANAnAm sAraM vyAsena kIrtitam |
paropakAraH puNyAya pApAya parapIDanam ||
Also, as a response to Vasishtha-Fan, I will resend a corrected version. The last one had many typos which are now fixed.
On 10/31/2010 1:31 PM, Krishnanand Mankikar wrote:
Very well written, Avinash Ji.Many thanks for sharing.A doubt--puNyaM
puṇyaṁ parahitakaraṇaṁ nityaṁ pāpaṁ parapīḍājanakaṁ yat
Is this there in the Geeta or is this your summation of the Geeta thoughts?
Regards
Krishnanand.
Avinash Sathaye
Thank you for your kind words.
I was, in fact relying on WORD when it told me that there were no spelling errors!
I forgot that WORD 2007+ has the habit of deciding that certain passages are in a different language and hence omits them from proof reading.
I also need to wait a few days before I can proof read what I write, since otherwise I usually read what I meant to write(:-)).
Feel free to post the corrected version on scribd.
If you find more mistakes, let me know and I can fix them.
If you would prefer the WORD file, I would be happy to send it too.
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Krishnanand Mankikar
Vidyananda Sarasvati
Thanks a lot for sharing.
I would like to add some about popular notion of "many paths to the
truth" :o))). Actually, here is no "many" ways, the way is one only -
and it is understanding, and it is not one of the "many" ways - but
you DO need to understand to directly experience the truth.
Everything else which is called "many roads" is just a preparatory
steps for this one path. Whether one comes by road of bhakti, or by
road of karma yoga, finally, to arrive to destination, one need to
UNDERSTAND. It is often compared to as if you would want to conquer a
mountain Everest. On the base of the mountain "base camp" is
organized. To get there, yes, here are many paths. Many people from
different places come by different means to this camp. After they got
here, they get an experienced guide, and climb to the top, and here is
just one way to reach the top from the base camp.
"Many ways" - pranayama, hatha yoga etc, bhakti, karma - serve the
same purpose, purification of the mind, making it not the sole
importance point in life, where it relates to everything through the
lens of "I" and "mine". Bhakti means "I love someone", karma means "I
do something", - in both cases love and actions are being purified,
mind being purified, yet this division "I am different from..." (my
beloved, my goal, my action, from what I am trying to change) is never
questioned. So, however close it can bring you to your goal, you
always remain different from smth. Division remains, limitation
remains - and it means you still feel away from unlimited truth.
...Unlimited truth means you are already included :o)))). It means you
are that truth, you are unlimited, and here is no division between you
and whatever. You are what you seek. Overwise the truth would remain
limited. When such questioning begins, it means you have arrived at
base camp and begin your ascend to the top. By the only road which
leads to the top, - understanding. If you have freedom to choose, it
means you still yet to arrive to the base camp, and then, yes, you can
choose between train, car, plane or bike to get there. Once your heart
and mind is ready, you don't have a choice but to follow path of
gyana.
And it does not mean karma yoga or bhakti yoga got sidelined, no, -
you DO need them to get to the point where gyana yoga may begin. These
are necessary preliminary steps. Which are good to bring you to some
point, but not further. To go further, you need different means.
...This is what I have heard from my masters and how I see it is
working. Whole Gita can be considered from this angle, too, and here
is no contradictions. Gyana and other paths are not parallel paths,
but - first many paths, and after, then you are ready - gyana (or
vidya) takes you to the top. Best bhakta or karmayogi will have to
understand to get to the Truth. It just a matter of time of one life
or many lives.
Om NamaH Shivaya!
Love & Om,
VA
On 10/27/10, Avinash Sathaye begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
JF
|
Dear Avinash,
- yes, I would prefer it in Word.
There was a small formatting error (I suppose): In one of the first lines: By Avinash Sathaye the two parts of your name are in different fonts.
I'll send you a link when it is published on Scribd.
Vasishtha-fan
|
Avinash Sathaye
I had not noticed the discussion presented in this message.
Here are my responses.
I both agree and disagree.
I agree with the point that all these so-called roads are only preparatory - to purify your mind - cittazuddharthyam is the common term. Ultimately, the knowledge is the only step that matters.
All the roads are "good practices", but neither necessary nor sufficient for the ultimate goal.
I disagree with the analogy of climbing a mountain. This implies a long arduous path with steady progress towards a definite goal.
There is no "path" to knowledge. It just happens, in an instant, without warning and/or premonition. It may or may not affect the outward behavior. Nothing guarantees it, nothing precludes it.
There is no such thing as things you "need to" do, like karma yoga or Bhakti or Yoga or whatever. One clever way this is described goes thus:
You are advised to do these things which keep you from being involved in routine life, so that your mind has a different outlet to express itself and you can get out of the rut. Some may argue that doing pUjA is useless activity, but at least it keeps you from doing other activities harmful to your mind and body!
it is only supposed to give you free and quiet time to think.
I strongly disagree with the claim that any specific thing is necessary - like Karma Yoga or Bhakti.
They are only needed for the ones who think they are needed. They don't carry you closer to any goals, for the goal is not in any specific direction or at a specific distance.
One finds a definite boundary described between the rest of the world and the turIya avasthA. One knows it is there, there is no recipe to cross it. You have to patiently wait to cross over. We are going through the story of a miserly kirATa in
nirvANa prakaraNa right now. This penny pincher spent three days searching for a penny he accidentally lost in a forest.
He did not find the penny, but found the cintAmaNi - leading to perfect happiness.
Such is the nature of true knowledge, yv declares:
As kirATa obtained the precious gem by continuous search for a penny, likewise the AtmajJAna is obtained by heard advice!
One seeks something and finds something else, after great effort.
y60085.23-24.
Vidyananda Sarasvati
Dear Avinash,
:o))))))
Topic of road or no road to "That" is a very interesting one.
Actually, it makes a difference between mystical approach and
traditional. The very existence of tradition shows here is a method,
which works time after time without fail in the guru-shishya
parampara. Actually, YV belongs somewhere in between - it is practical
mystical book! :o)))
Let me explain. Yes, here is not "way" to Brahman, because it is
everything, everywhere, not to be acquired or rejected, not to be seen
by mind or senses, nor known, nor unknown, eye of the eye, mind of the
mind, etc. He is right here and now, and so, no "way" is required. It
can be revealed anytime :o))). And it is never revealed to a person
with unclean mind. The only thing between "limited me" and "unlimited
Brahman" is my misunderstanding. I see only Brahman, I feel only
Brahman, I eat and I am only Brahman, yet I see everything as
different from me. The ONLY thing between me and Brahman is my
misunderstanding, and only this does not let me wholly and gloriously
BE it. I understand many things, but I understand them wrongly!
Sometime in childhood or before I make a wrong assumption (not without
parents help, of course) about me being different from everything
else, and after that my whole life is based on this deep intellectual
assumption without me being aware of it, - whole knowledge based on
wrong assumption will be also wrong (only if you want to know Brahman,
of course! :o)))) ).
Here is nothing mysterious about my misunderstanding - it is created
by the mind, and so it can be eliminated by the mind. And -
voila!!!!!!!!! - then the ignorance which did not let me see my true
Self is removed (by conscious efforts) what which is left - is IT!!!!
Vedanta, systematic study of Upanishad presents a unique way of seeing
into the mind's way of being ignorant. This ignorance is sustained on
the fact you don't see it! Once it is seen, it disappears. You can
work with ignorance. You can eliminate ignorance. Here is absolutely
nothing mysterious about it. Once the ignorance is eliminated, Truth
is revealed, because it is self-revealing. This is a METHOD. Which
works. You don't seek a "way" to IT, you eliminate your own
misunderstanding, and Knowledge reveals itself.
Here is no way to "It", but here is a way to eliminate ignorance.
Knowledge never "happens" to a person of dirty mind. It never happens
to a person who completely engrosses himself with the things outside.
OR, to put it differently, Knowledge happens every second to everyone,
but only pure mind can leave its grip on its conclusions, recognise IT
and be and know it.
Here IS a way and here is NO way - at the same time. Self-knowledge is
the only thing in the world, which you cannot trip yourself
accidentally over. Because it is not a thing :o))). Karma and bhakti
yoga are needed to take focus of attention from ME, MINE and let loose
some of the knots. It is extremely natural process of evolution of the
mind, and in this respect they are required to get the mind to the
point of origin, eliminate the very first misconception and end the
search. If you don't mind, I'll talk about it on Nov. 26.
That miser kirATa from the story DID very consciously SEARCH for the
lost coin. Yet, his mind was in some way prepared to recognise
chintamani as well! If it were not so, he would throw cintamani aside
and continue the search for the coin. Here are also stories to this
effect in the YV. The point of the story - you NEED to put efforts,
and you NEED to recognise. The point ends here - you can find
cintamani this way (because it is an object), but will never find
Self-knowledge searching outside! :o)))
So, search is necessary, moreover, it is something you cannot stop
doing whole your life. With just patiently waiting and not doing
anything about your mind's wrong ways, nothing happens. Search is
necessary. What you find at the end is NOT what you expect :o))))!
Like that miser who found cintamani instead of his coin. Guru helps to
direct this search, and helps you throw away all unrelated things you
may find (twigs, hedgehogs, old shoes and rotten apples etc) till you
dis-cover the right thing, and this "thing" without cover of ignorance
is recognised because of its self-revelatory nature! After that, you
don't need a Guru :o))), because the search is instantly over.
If you search, and search in right direction with right understanding
and guidance, Knowledge "happens" as surely as death happens to a born
person. If you don't, knots of the heart never untie themselves by
themselves.
Here is a way to That to which no way is possible! :o)))
Love & OM,
VA
On 11/3/10, Avinash Sathaye begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
>> Love& Om,
>>
>> VA
>>
>> On 10/27/10, Avinash Sathaye begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
>> end_of_the_skype_highlighting<so...@ms.uky.edu> wrote:
>>> Dear Yogavasishtha fans,
>>>
>>> Strictly speaking, the enclosed file is not related to yogavasishtha.
>>> However, it is a detailed commentary on five verses on Gita that I
>>> composed and I have also added detailed comments on them for a general
>>> audience.
>>> It can certainly be related to some of the philosophy that we all think
>>> about.
>>>
>>> I hope you find it interesting.
>>>
>>> All comments, including editorial suggestions are welcome.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> With Best Regards,
>>> Avinash Sathaye
>>>
>>> Web:www.msc.uky.edu/sohum
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "yoga vasishtha" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email toyoga-v...@googlegroups.com.
Avinash Sathaye
Yes, this is indeed interesting. Let me continue the discussion by responding to the statements that I have something to say about.
On 11/3/2010 11:05 PM, Vidyananda Sarasvati wrote:
Avinash-> I would like to propose that there is no proof that the traditional method works as stated.Hari Om! Dear Avinash, :o)))))) Topic of road or no road to "That" is a very interesting one. Actually, it makes a difference between mystical approach and traditional. The very existence of tradition shows here is a method, which works time after time without fail in the guru-shishya parampara. Actually, YV belongs somewhere in between - it is practical mystical book! :o)))
The idea of a Guru, even a God giving enlightenment to someone is against all indications of theory.
It is like claiming kirATa found cintAmaNI because he was searching for the penny with such vigor, so let us search for pennies!
Whatever benefit is derived from the traditional method comes from the disciple's faith that it is going to help and thus his own Chit acting accordingly.
One of the reason I like yv so much is that it brings out all such thoughts repeatedly and clearly. It kind of resonates with what I think on my own.
Let me explain. Yes, here is not "way" to Brahman, because it is everything, everywhere, not to be acquired or rejected, not to be seen by mind or senses, nor known, nor unknown, eye of the eye, mind of the mind, etc. He is right here and now, and so, no "way" is required. It can be revealed anytime :o))). And it is never revealed to a person with unclean mind.
I strongly disagree here on two grounds:
1. First of all, the definition of a "dirty" mind is shaky at best, and it is not clear why it would hinder with the realization that you are not the mind, that you are not bound by the mind and you are indeed far superior to it!
Notice, I am intntionally using the word realization and not revealation. The idea of revelation already presupposes
an external God who is offering you Grace and help you understand.
2. Given the fact that the mind is part of avidyA, the transient world, how would its cleanliness be relevant. If you are discarding it altogether? Indeed, the "trick" of jIvanmukti is to detach from the mind and not own up to its virtues or vice!
I often like to quote Shankaracharya who stated that puNyamapi pApAya bhavati - even puNya acts like pApa, in the sense that it binds you with the Good Karma it generates. My paraphrase is the tongue in cheek comment
"no good deed goes unpunished". :-)
The only thing between "limited me" and "unlimited Brahman" is my misunderstanding. I see only Brahman, I feel only Brahman, I eat and I am only Brahman, yet I see everything as different from me. The ONLY thing between me and Brahman is my misunderstanding, and only this does not let me wholly and gloriously BE it. I understand many things, but I understand them wrongly! Sometime in childhood or before I make a wrong assumption (not without parents help, of course) about me being different from everything else, and after that my whole life is based on this deep intellectual assumption without me being aware of it, - whole knowledge based on wrong assumption will be also wrong (only if you want to know Brahman, of course! :o)))) ).
I notice a mixture of true and untrue statements in this. Of course, this is only caused by the necessity to verbalize what we mean.
There is nothing between "limited me" and "Brahman" , for the "limited me" does not exist. Thus, there is no
"my understanding". You are only as bound as you wish to be! After all, we should not forget that the whole world is being dreamed by the Brahman and is being observed, without obstruction to the pure bliss.
As a corollary, there is no good or bad knowledge, they are all bad except the one, which cannot be taught or learnt or talked about or reasoned. That is the one which just "is"!
Here is nothing mysterious about my misunderstanding - it is created by the mind, and so it can be eliminated by the mind.
Or you may leave it alone to play with itself and take on the role of the observer, the jIvanmukta.
And - voila!!!!!!!!! - then the ignorance which did not let me see my true Self is removed (by conscious efforts) what which is left - is IT!!!! Vedanta, systematic study of Upanishad presents a unique way of seeing into the mind's way of being ignorant. This ignorance is sustained on the fact you don't see it! Once it is seen, it disappears. You can work with ignorance. You can eliminate ignorance. Here is absolutely nothing mysterious about it. Once the ignorance is eliminated, Truth is revealed, because it is self-revealing. This is a METHOD. Which works. You don't seek a "way" to IT, you eliminate your own misunderstanding, and Knowledge reveals itself. Here is no way to "It", but here is a way to eliminate ignorance. Knowledge never "happens" to a person of dirty mind. It never happens to a person who completely engrosses himself with the things outside. OR, to put it differently, Knowledge happens every second to everyone, but only pure mind can leave its grip on its conclusions, recognise IT and be and know it.
We just had s big election and I would like to offer this analogy.
Our Mind is like to politicians we elect to run this world. We vote for it, elect it and grant it the power to rule.
It , in turn makes laws and tells us if we are behaving properly or improperly and causes all kinds of events - good or bad - to happen.
The only crucial antidote to it, is like the existence of "election". It gives us a chance to throw it out. (Unfortunately the analogy ends here, since in it, we replace one mind with another(:-))
What you are describing as a dirty or corrupt mind, might be similar to an administration which has suspended elections and suspended the law. The only action left in such situation is an open rebellion, of course. The usual "good actions" of cittazuddhi are comparable to keeping the Government ethical and transparent, so our elections can stay meaningful. A better government is one which governs less - or needs to govern less.
Here IS a way and here is NO way - at the same time. Self-knowledge is the only thing in the world, which you cannot trip yourself accidentally over. Because it is not a thing :o))). Karma and bhakti yoga are needed to take focus of attention from ME, MINE and let loose some of the knots. It is extremely natural process of evolution of the mind, and in this respect they are required to get the mind to the point of origin, eliminate the very first misconception and end the search. If you don't mind, I'll talk about it on Nov. 26.
Yes, we shall talk about this and other matters. I have not yet made an announcement, but I will make one to initiate a discussion!
That miser kirATa from the story DID very consciously SEARCH for the lost coin. Yet, his mind was in some way prepared to recognise chintamani as well! If it were not so, he would throw cintamani aside and continue the search for the coin. Here are also stories to this effect in the YV. The point of the story - you NEED to put efforts, and you NEED to recognise. The point ends here - you can find cintamani this way (because it is an object), but will never find Self-knowledge searching outside! :o)))
This conventional explanation of predestiny is the daivavAda that yv criticized severely in early sargas,
So, search is necessary, moreover, it is something you cannot stop doing whole your life. With just patiently waiting and not doing anything about your mind's wrong ways, nothing happens. Search is necessary. What you find at the end is NOT what you expect :o))))! Like that miser who found cintamani instead of his coin. Guru helps to direct this search, and helps you throw away all unrelated things you may find (twigs, hedgehogs, old shoes and rotten apples etc) till you dis-cover the right thing, and this "thing" without cover of ignorance is recognised because of its self-revelatory nature! After that, you don't need a Guru :o))), because the search is instantly over. If you search, and search in right direction with right understanding and guidance, Knowledge "happens" as surely as death happens to a born person. If you don't, knots of the heart never untie themselves by themselves.
We shall talk, indeed(:-))
Vidyananda Sarasvati
On 11/4/10, Avinash Sathaye begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
end_of_the_skype_highlighting <so...@ms.uky.edu> wrote:
> *Avinash-> I would like to propose that there is no proof that the
> traditional method works as stated.
>
> The idea of a Guru, even a God giving enlightenment to someone is
> against all indications of theory.
> It is like claiming kirATa found cintAmaNI because he was searching for
> the penny with such vigor, so let us search for pennies!
> Whatever benefit is derived from the traditional method comes from the
> disciple's faith that it is going to help and thus his own Chit acting
> accordingly.
>
> One of the reason I like yv so much is that it brings out all such
> thoughts repeatedly and clearly. It kind of resonates with what I think
> on my own.
> *
YV is good because it states many points for all minds :o))) ! And one
point he makes - you DO search! WIthout search, you continue to live
in duality. Belief in Guru is required only to start looking into the
mind, and see for yourself how baseless are its conclusions are.
>> Let me explain. Yes, here is not "way" to Brahman, because it is
>> everything, everywhere, not to be acquired or rejected, not to be seen
>> by mind or senses, nor known, nor unknown, eye of the eye, mind of the
>> mind, etc. He is right here and now, and so, no "way" is required. It
>> can be revealed anytime :o))). And it is never revealed to a person
>> with unclean mind.
> *Avinash->
> I strongly disagree here on two grounds:
> 1. First of all, the definition of a "dirty" mind is shaky at best, and
> it is not clear why it would hinder with the realization that you are
> not the mind, that you are not bound by the mind and you are indeed far
> superior to it!
>
> Notice, I am intntionally using the word realization and not
> revealation. **The idea of revelation already presupposes
> an external God who is offering you Grace and help you understand.
>
> 2. Given the fact that the mind is part of avidyA, the transient world,
> **how would its cleanliness be relevant. If you are discarding it
> altogether? Indeed, the "trick" of jIvanmukti is to detach from the mind
> and not own up to its virtues or vice!
>
> I often like to quote Shankaracharya who stated that puNyamapi pApAya
> bhavati - even puNya acts like pApa, in the sense that it binds you with
> the Good Karma it generates. My paraphrase is the tongue in cheek comment
> "no good deed goes unpunished".:-)
>
> *
Yes, punya binds to heaven :o))), and it is also transitory. By dirty
mind I mean mind which is strongly attached to external objects in
belief they are real. Belief in reality of objects basically means
belief in the reality of the mind itself. If THEY are real, mind is
real, too! Mind believing in its own reality will never even think
about trying to detach from itself! Such a mind does not let recognise
the unchanging, because it is too much enchanted by changing.
Importance of clean mind is stressed in YV, too, and in Upanishads as
well. You need mind to discard the mind! And only mind, which is ready
to question itself, can do it. Cleanniness of the mind is not a final
goal, but only a stepping stone.
>> The only thing between "limited me" and "unlimited
>> Brahman" is my misunderstanding. I see only Brahman, I feel only
>> Brahman, I eat and I am only Brahman, yet I see everything as
>> different from me. The ONLY thing between me and Brahman is my
>> misunderstanding, and only this does not let me wholly and gloriously
>> BE it. I understand many things, but I understand them wrongly!
>> Sometime in childhood or before I make a wrong assumption (not without
>> parents help, of course) about me being different from everything
>> else, and after that my whole life is based on this deep intellectual
>> assumption without me being aware of it, - whole knowledge based on
>> wrong assumption will be also wrong (only if you want to know Brahman,
>> of course! :o)))) ).
>>
> *Avinash->
> I notice a mixture of true and untrue statements in this. Of course,
> this is only caused by the necessity to verbalize what we mean.
>
> There is nothing between "limited me" and "Brahman" , for the "limited
> me" does not exist. Thus, there is no
> "my understanding". You are only as bound as you wish to be! After all,
> we should not forget that the whole world is being dreamed by the
> Brahman and is being observed, without obstruction to the pure bliss.
>
> As a corollary, there is no good or bad knowledge, they are all bad
> except the one, which cannot be taught or learnt or talked about or
> reasoned. That is the one which just "is"!
>
:o))) The limits of using language, for proper understanding, should
be defined. If here is "no good or bad knowledge", here is no "mixture
of true and untrue statements", too ;o)). If we talk from the point of
view of Brahman, yes, here is no world, no limited me, and no "my
understanding", - Brahman does not have any problems and we have
nothing to discuss further. :o))) Books are not written for Brahman,
YV including.
Everyone starts his journey to non-dual from duality, feeling as a
limited person, and only such person needs understanding, needs
explanations using limited language.
From limited language, pointers can be build up which point in
"direction" of non-dual. And here, although all words are limited,
they can be used to dismantle wrong notions, only to be thrown out
later, of course, - case of one thorn used to prick out the splinter
and be discarded.
>> Here is nothing mysterious about my misunderstanding - it is created
>> by the mind, and so it can be eliminated by the mind.
> *Avinash-> Mind does not have the power to erase misunderstanding. You
> have the power to eliminate the mind, to erase its effects.
> Or you may leave it alone to play with itself and take on the role of
> the observer, the jIvanmukta.
>
To take on the role of observer, you require mind work first. No mind
- no jivanmukta.
> *
>> And -
>> voila!!!!!!!!! - then the ignorance which did not let me see my true
>> Self is removed (by conscious efforts) what which is left - is IT!!!!
>> Vedanta, systematic study of Upanishad presents a unique way of seeing
>> into the mind's way of being ignorant. This ignorance is sustained on
>> the fact you don't see it! Once it is seen, it disappears. You can
>> work with ignorance. You can eliminate ignorance. Here is absolutely
>> nothing mysterious about it. Once the ignorance is eliminated, Truth
>> is revealed, because it is self-revealing. This is a METHOD. Which
>> works. You don't seek a "way" to IT, you eliminate your own
>> misunderstanding, and Knowledge reveals itself.
>>
>> Here is no way to "It", but here is a way to eliminate ignorance.
>> Knowledge never "happens" to a person of dirty mind. It never happens
>> to a person who completely engrosses himself with the things outside.
>> OR, to put it differently, Knowledge happens every second to everyone,
>> but only pure mind can leave its grip on its conclusions, recognise IT
>> and be and know it.
>>
> *Avinash-> Again, I repeat, the mind has all powers only by being
> described as having them.
> We just had s big election and I would like to offer this analogy.
>
> Our Mind is like to politicians we elect to run this world. We vote for
> it, elect it and grant it the power to rule.
> It , in turn makes laws and tells us if we are behaving properly or
> improperly and causes all kinds of events - good or bad - to happen.
>
> The only crucial antidote to it, is like the existence of "election". It
> gives us a chance to throw it out. (Unfortunately the analogy ends here,
> since in it, we replace one mind with another(:-))
>
> What you are describing as a dirty or corrupt mind, might be similar to
> an administration which has suspended elections and suspended the law.
> The only action left in such situation is an open rebellion, of course.
> The usual "good actions" of cittazuddhi are comparable to keeping the
> Government ethical and transparent, so our elections can stay
> meaningful. A better government is one which governs less - or needs to
> govern less.
>
> *
"Pure mind" here is government which understands its real transitory
character (from election to election) and so easily says good by to
all attributes of power then it's term is over; and "unclean mind" is
one which readily and greedily engages in governing forgetting it is
only for a few years and taking next elections as a personal insult.
In first case, mind can try to understand who's the real power is, in
second, its only occupation is hoarding more and more notions.
>> Here IS a way and here is NO way - at the same time. Self-knowledge is
>> the only thing in the world, which you cannot trip yourself
>> accidentally over. Because it is not a thing :o))). Karma and bhakti
>> yoga are needed to take focus of attention from ME, MINE and let loose
>> some of the knots. It is extremely natural process of evolution of the
>> mind, and in this respect they are required to get the mind to the
>> point of origin, eliminate the very first misconception and end the
>> search. If you don't mind, I'll talk about it on Nov. 26.
>>
> *Avinash->
> Yes, we shall talk about this and other matters. I have not yet made an
> announcement, but I will make one to initiate a discussion!
> *
>> That miser kirATa from the story DID very consciously SEARCH for the
>> lost coin. Yet, his mindwas in some way prepared to recognise
>> chintamani as well! If it were not so, he would throw cintamani aside
>> and continue the search for the coin. Here are also stories to this
>> effect in the YV. The point of the story - you NEED to put efforts,
>> and you NEED to recognise. The point ends here - you can find
>> cintamani this way (because it is an object), but will never find
>> Self-knowledge searching outside! :o)))
>>
> *Avinash-> That is the kind of explanation that yv seems to frown upon.
> It only ascribes the discovery to pure chance!
> This conventional explanation of predestiny is the daivavAda that yv
> criticized severely in early sargas,
> *
The whole crowd was here, laugthing at the kirATa, but only one who
searched got his reward. Whole second chapter of YV is the praise of
personal efforts. What comes by chance without efforts and
understanding, also goes by chance as easily. Here is another tale of
cintamani to that effect.
The truth is where seemingly opposites make sense simultaneously or
simultaneously lose the sense. :o)))
LOve & OM,
VA
>> So, search is necessary, moreover, it is something you cannot stop
>> doing whole your life. With just patiently waiting and not doing
>> anything about your mind's wrong ways, nothing happens. Search is
>> necessary. What you find at the end is NOT what you expect :o))))!
>> Like that miser who found cintamani instead of his coin. Guru helps to
>> direct this search, and helps you throw away all unrelated things you
>> may find (twigs, hedgehogs, old shoes and rotten apples etc) till you
>> dis-cover the right thing, and this "thing" without cover of ignorance
>> is recognised because of its self-revelatory nature! After that, you
>> don't need a Guru :o))), because the search is instantly over.
>>
>> If you search, and search in right direction with right understanding
>> and guidance, Knowledge "happens" as surely as death happens to a born
>> person. If you don't, knots of the heart never untie themselves by
>> themselves.
>>
> *Avinash->
> We shall talk, indeed(:-))
> *
>> Here is a way to That to which no way is possible! :o)))
>>
>> Love& OM,