>. I realize that there are those who have full control over that sort of thing and have no real problem with it. And statistically, those people seem to be in the TD category. Don't worry, I don't think humans are comfortable at all with those ICE spaghettis graph. In fact ICE programming is facing the same problem that classic coding. If you don't organize your graph using compounds with good names, comments etc..., it will be very difficult to understand how things work. The creator of those spaghettis compounds is not smarter than you. It is just that as ICE is an interactive tool, he can "code" and see the results at the same time. This is good in absolute but it is also very bad as most of the time the "ICE designer" will dive in its graph without planning things too much. When things start to give nice results, the compound will be saved on disk and when its creator will re-open it two months later, the only thing he will want to do is run very far from its workstation :). I'm the first one doing this mistake on lot of compounds and I'm trying to improve this area. I'm thinking about writing something on how to plane and organize your work when doing ICE programming, but it is something that need time, so can't say when I will be able to do it. Cheers, Guillaume From: softimage-bounces@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Tim Crowson Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:25 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Ice Tutorials I really didn't mean to sound like I was complaining. I fully realize that the problem is more with me than with ICE, simply because my mind doesn't work "programmatically" the way ICE needs it to. And as I said in another reply, I fully agree that it takes very creative people to come up ICE solutions. There's no hating going on here at all. In fact, ICE continues to impress, and the latest modeling tools it offers in 2012 are going to suck me right in! At the very least, compounds make ICE more approachable for idiots like me. When I open up a compound and see half a dozen arrays and a bunch of math nodes with noodles crisscrossing like a web, I can't help but feel a bit intimidated. But that's fully my problem and shortcoming. I realize that there are those who have full control over that sort of thing and have no real problem with it. And statistically, those people seem to be in the TD category. Tim Crowson Asset Artist [http://www.magneticdreams.com/md_logo.gif] Magnetic Dreams Animation Studio, Inc. 2525 Lebanon Pike, Building C. Nashville, TN 37214 Ph 615.885.6801 | Fx 615.889.4768 | www.magneticdreams.com tim@magneticdreams.com ________________________________ From: "Matt Lowery" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:17 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Ice Tutorials I here what you saying and for the most part I agree. However with the exception of a few truely exceptional people, most artist are not great logical thinkers. A logical mind is what's really needed to understand the maths and programming logic in ICE, that's the conundrum. To use your chisel and stone analogy, ICE is a bit like showing a sculptor a fantastic new 'wonder' chisel that makes sculpting way easier. But then instead of giving him the new 'wonder' chisel, you give him the component parts of the machine that makes the 'wonder' chisel and ask him to figure out how to put the machine together to make the chisel.... m@ Sam J. Bowling wrote: > I see this complaint about so many time, but there are tons of > artistic things done with ICE. I see people complaining about 3d > programs not being artist friendly, yet there are tons of artistic > renderings produced on a daily basis. Are the people who create these > not artists? I think what most of these people are trying to say it > that it's not easy, but by that definition, most art work would not be > artist friendly. > > I would consider a hammer and a chisel and a slab of stone, or working > with clay much less artist friendly. After all it you make one wrong > cut with your chisel, you have to start over, or if you don't wrap you > clay project up well enough it will dry out, but it I make a wrong > change all I have to do is hit undo. Most artists didn't master their > art over night, of even in a few weeks, and I bet if anyone put as > much effort into learning ICE as they did into learning the other > aspects of art, they would be able to use ICE as proficiently as they > use any of their other tools. > > > At 06:03 AM 4/12/2011, you wrote: >> I'm of the opinion of that although ICE has that word "creative" in >> it, it really is for TDs, and not very artist-friendly (at least not >> without the help of a TD first!). Paul's videos make things so easy >> to understand. I wish there was more content like that out there! >> >> +1 for Pooby! >> >> >> *Tim Crowson >> */Asset Artist >> / >> http://www.magneticdreams.com/md_logo.gif >> * >> Magnetic Dreams Animation Studio, Inc. >> *2525 Lebanon Pike, Building C. Nashville, TN 37214 >> *Ph* 615.885.6801 | *Fx* 615.889.4768 | www.magneticdreams.com >> >> tim@magneticdreams.com >> >> >> >> *From*: "Rob Wuijster" >> *Sent*: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 2:23 AM >> *To*: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >> *Subject*: Re: Ice Tutorials >> >> Yes, >> >> Paul's ICE videos are excellent, and his way of explaining things >> make ICE less 'complicated'... >> >> Not sure if this was posted before, but the direct link is >> http://vimeo.com/user4895541/videos if people are interested. >> >> Rob >> >> \/-------------\/----------------\/ >> >> On 4/12/2011 07:36 AM, Sam J. Bowling wrote: >>> I recently ran across some great ICE tutorials from Paul Smith. The >>> "Zombie outbreak" set are great and very well done and thinking of >>> them as Zombies and Humans instead of particles seems to really help >>> keep me interested. I can already think of a lot of uses for the >>> things he covers in this set and it's all a lot easier than I would >>> have imagined. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sam J. Bowling >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3565 - Release Date: 04/11/11 >>> >> -- >> Sam J. Bowling >>