Proposals for New Tagline

[villas]

The web2py tagline is currently: 'Enterprise Web Framework'.

Massimo agrees that this might be improved and this thread is to
solicit suggestions. Ideally suggestions would encapsulate the
'spirit' of web2py or stress a feature(s) and simply make it seem more
attractive to new users.

As an idea, here is one suggestion (inspired by Bruno) stressing the
productivity of web2py:

** Web2py - the Framework that gets things done! **

[Jason (spot) Brower]

Hmm..

"Twice as fast to code in than Django and four time easier."

Ok ok, it sucks, but it's true!

Let me think... how about:

Productivity by design.

Think about the page not the code!

Releiving finger ache by a factor of 2.

Bringing python and html together.

Framework for productive web applicatons.

Web application framework.

Development to the table.

Power to the python!

There's a party over here!

Truly agile.

MVC to the max!

The sensable MVC framework.

Built with MVC in mind.

Putting the fun back in to coding.

[Mengu]

what about generating such taglines and displaying them randomly?

On Mar 15, 2:54 pm, "Jason (spot) Brower" <encomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmm..
> "Twice as fast to code in than Django and four time easier."
> Ok ok, it sucks, but it's true!
> Let me think... how about:
> Productivity by design.
> Think about the page not the code!
> Releiving finger ache by a factor of 2.
> Bringing python and html together.
> Framework for productive web applicatons.
> Web application framework.
> Development to the table.
> Power to the python!
> There's a party over here!
> Truly agile.
> MVC to the max!
> The sensable MVC framework.
> Built with MVC in mind.
> Putting the fun back in to coding.
>

[Mengu]

instead of "the framework that gets things done" i suggest "get your
app done"

[Martín Mulone]

I will think a new one. Some words or ideas perhaps to include: "python", "MVC", "Full-stack", "Framework", "True MVC", "RAD", "Fast development", "Less development more creation", "Easy to learn".

2011/3/15 Mengu <whal...@gmail.com>

--

Pablo Martín Mulone (mar...@tecnodoc.com.ar)

http://www.tecnodoc.com.ar/

My blog: http://martin.tecnodoc.com.ar
Expert4Solution Profile: http://www.experts4solutions.com/e4s/default/expert/6

[Bruno Rocha]

web2py - Code Less Create More!

--

Bruno Rocha

[ About me: http://zerp.ly/rochacbruno ]

[contatog...@gmail.com]

web2py - Code Less Create More!

+1 

_____________________________________________
Gilson Filho

Web Developer
http://gilsondev.com

[Tom Atkins]

On 15 March 2011 13:43, Bruno Rocha <rocha...@gmail.com> wrote:

web2py - Code Less Create More!

+1 (and then mention 'full-stack python web framework...') 

[Massimo Di Pierro]

How about?

"rapid web development that scales"

I think we should use "rapid development" vs "agile" since the latter
sometimes has a negative connotation.

Massimo



On Mar 15, 9:36 am, Tom Atkins <minkto...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Kevin Ivarsen]

So far I like "Productivity by design".

Although it depends on what the goals of a tagline should be. If you
want to make the framework discoverable through search engines, it
might be more important to include words like python / mvc / web
framework. The web2py name by itself has the strength of being
relatively self-explanitory once you see it (it must have something to
do with web programming in python) and unique when doing searches.
Contrast with non-descriptive names with alternate meanings like
Django/Pylons/Pyramid. But if you don't yet know the name web2py yet,
a good tagline may help you discover it.

Some possible approaches (not necessarily mutually exclusive):
1. Emphasize speed and ease of development (a la "Productivity by
design")
2. Laundry list of searchable keywords (something like "A full-stack
MVC web framework in Python"
3. Emphasize that this is not just a toy web framework (perhaps an
effect of the current "Enterprise Web Framework" tagline)
4. Something playful and catchy

The Django tagline, for example, meets #1 and #4 pretty well, with
just a bit of #2. At least, I thought it was pretty good when I
started with Python web frameworks. Of course, nobody should base
their choice of technology on a tagline, but first impressions
certainly count for something.

Kevin

[Jonathan Lundell]

On Mar 15, 2011, at 8:12 AM, Kevin Ivarsen wrote:
>
> So far I like "Productivity by design".

I do too. It speaks to web2py's strongest point.

I'm not happy with 'enterprise' because to me it reeks of Enterprise Java ("Java is the new COBOL").

I'd be happier with 'scales' if we had deployed, large-scale apps to demonstrate. I'm sure it's possible, but we need to be able to point to them.

[Bruno Rocha]

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Jonathan Lundell <jlun...@pobox.com> wrote:

On Mar 15, 2011, at 8:12 AM, Kevin Ivarsen wrote:
>
> So far I like "Productivity by design".

I do too. It speaks to web2py's strongest point.

I'm not happy with 'enterprise' because to me it reeks of Enterprise Java ("Java is the new COBOL")

+ 1 to "web2py web framework - Productivity by design" 

[Tom Atkins]

changing my +1 - now liking "Productivity by design"!

[VP]

Web2py: The Web Framework for Pragmatists with Deadlines.


(Don't ask how I came up with that. :-))

[Anthony]

I haven't come up with any great tagline ideas of my own yet, but as we generate ideas, it might be useful to first think about some of the distinctive attributes and goals of web2py and its community. Here are some things I think about when I think of web2py:

• Easy (to set up, learn, use, distribute, and deploy)
• Rapid development, productive, efficient, compact, concise
• Feature-packed, comprehensive
• Secure
• Stable (backwards compatible)
• User-focused
• Innovative
• Well integrated
• Actively developed, constantly improving, frequent releases, fast bug fixes, responsive to user needs
• Friendly, open, welcoming, helpful, supportive
• Professional, mature, serious
• It's for everyone, from beginner (wizard, plugin_wiki) to expert

The book preface also provides some good inspiration: http://www.web2py.com/book/default/chapter/00

 

We should also be mindful of different potential audiences we may want to target, which may include small or solo web dev companies; internal web developers within larger organizations; web-based businesses; non-Python professional developers (e.g., coming from PHP, Java); beginners who are new to web dev and/or Python; entrepreneurs; managers within organizations or external clients who have to approve the use of the framework; instructors who are teaching web dev; etc. Different types of users will care more about different sets of attributes.

I think one challenge that web2py has in terms of communication is that it is appealing both to beginners and to professionals/experts. The problem is, when you advertise how easy and simple something is for beginners, experts might assume it is going to be too basic or constraining to meet their needs. On the other hand, if you advertise how powerful, flexible, and productive something is for experts, beginners might assume it will be too difficult and overwhelming for them. web2py has managed a great feat by being very easy but also very comprehensive, powerful, and flexible. It's got something for everyone.

Anyway, those are just some things to think about. So far, I think my favorite proposal has been:

• "Productivity by Design"

Here are some other options:

• "web2py - The Web framework for Django users with deadlines."
• "web2py - Why are you reading this tagline? You could have built a web app by now!"

Finally, although the term "enterprise" is sometimes misunderstood and even mocked, it clearly appeals to some potential users because it suggests that the framework is serious, stable, secure, professional, well-supported, etc. So, even if we're dropping "enterprise" from the tagline, I think we should still strive to communicate that aspect of the framework and community.

 

Best,

Anthony

[pbreit]

I like both "Productivity by design" and "Rapid development that scales".

Also note that Django and Rails, at least, also have a short description.

Django

The Web framework for perfectionists with deadlines

Django makes it easier to build better Web apps more quickly and with less code.

Rails

Web development that doesn't hurt

RoR is an open-source web framework that's optimized...

[Bruno Rocha]

web2py

Productivity by design

web2py is an open-source full stack web framework for rapid development that scales

[Martín Mulone]

+1

2011/3/15 Bruno Rocha <rocha...@gmail.com>

[Massimo Di Pierro]

LOL

[mart]

Just throwing in my 2 cents worth,

Personally, I kind of like the that it says Enterprise, but as
mentioned here, depends on who's reading it. This is my first try in
world if open source so the experience may speak to me differently
than let's say the younger crowed who may be growing up with it. So my
take on it as well as the enthousiasme I may have for it is in fact
telling of previous experiences. When I have to get up in front of
folks (usually at a much higher pay grade ;) ) and talk about where I
want to take my projects and how I want to handle the releases of
their software, I tend to speak about "what's exciting about web2py"
and much less about "how it will help us be more productive".
Somethings tend to be the same (at least that how I see it), I never
would have sold the idea or even have gotten as far with convincing
my current employer to dump and trash all current processes and
associated resources & tools without showing conviction and
excitement. I sold them on this because i relied on what I liked about
web2py and what could inspire me, which is something I never would
have been able to to do any other way.

Personally, i find I care a lot less abut being productive and MUCH
more about being excited about being productive. I like web2py, and I
like python, I like that i can start something and quickly see things
happen and I really like that I can take time to think about changing
things around, scaling other things upwards, etc, and I can do this
because web2py has a community where one can login post a question and
get quick answers (as well as good exchanges that make me think).

Given the choice, that's what I would rely on to tag web2py... i would
choose something that sounds exciting, has community and something
that inspires... (all the great technical details are without a doubt
impressive and great, but that would put me in "shopping mode" as
opposed relying on impression. so I would ask a question instead...

"what inspires you?"

Who wouldn't look twice at a t-shirt with a big red tree on it that
aks a question like that?

anyways,

That's it,
Mart :)

On Mar 15, 12:56 pm, Anthony <abasta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I haven't come up with any great tagline ideas of my own yet, but as we
> generate ideas, it might be useful to first think about some of the
> distinctive attributes and goals of web2py and its community. Here are some
> things I think about when I think of web2py:
>

>    - Easy (to set up, learn, use, distribute, and deploy)
>    - Rapid development, productive, efficient, compact, concise
>    - Feature-packed, comprehensive
>    - Secure
>    - Stable (backwards compatible)
>    - User-focused
>    - Innovative
>    - Well integrated
>    - Actively developed, constantly improving, frequent releases, fast bug

>    fixes, responsive to user needs

>    - Friendly, open, welcoming, helpful, supportive
>    - Professional, mature, serious
>    - It's for everyone, from beginner (wizard, plugin_wiki) to expert

>
> The book preface also provides some good inspiration:http://www.web2py.com/book/default/chapter/00
>
> We should also be mindful of different potential audiences we may want to
> target, which may include small or solo web dev companies; internal web
> developers within larger organizations; web-based businesses; non-Python
> professional developers (e.g., coming from PHP, Java); beginners who are new
> to web dev and/or Python; entrepreneurs; managers within organizations or
> external clients who have to approve the use of the framework; instructors
> who are teaching web dev; etc. Different types of users will care more about
> different sets of attributes.
>
> I think one challenge that web2py has in terms of communication is that it
> is appealing both to beginners and to professionals/experts. The problem is,
> when you advertise how easy and simple something is for beginners, experts
> might assume it is going to be too basic or constraining to meet their
> needs. On the other hand, if you advertise how powerful, flexible, and
> productive something is for experts, beginners might assume it will be too
> difficult and overwhelming for them. web2py has managed a great feat by
> being very easy but also very comprehensive, powerful, and flexible. It's
> got something for everyone.
>
> Anyway, those are just some things to think about. So far, I think my
> favorite proposal has been:
>

>    - "Productivity by Design"

>
> Here are some other options:
>

>    - "web2py - The Web framework for Django users with deadlines."
>    - "web2py - Why are you reading this tagline? You could have built a web

[Massimo Di Pierro]

I do not think the tagline should be a question.

[danto]

(...tldr)

Web2Py: Productivity by Design
Python Integrated Web Framework

[mwolfe02]

+1 Productivity by design

On Mar 15, 2:13 pm, danto <web2py.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/3/15 mart <msenecal...@gmail.com>

[Kevin Ivarsen]

I don't know how to fit it in elegantly, but wanted to offer the idea
of relating Python's "batteries included" mantra to web2py. That's one
thing that struck me about web2py early on - it gives you a lot of
nice features right off the bat.

Kevin

[mikech]

I like the idea of rotating taglines.  

Instant gratification   comes to mind.

[Anthony]

I like "Productivity by Design" because it sounds catchy and includes the word "Productivity", but I'm sort of wondering what we mean with "by design". Does that imply we didn't accidentally create a productive framework but have done so with forethought "by design"? Or perhaps that web2py achieves productivity by promoting a particular design to its web apps? I want it to be meaningful because it sounds cool, but it seems a little murky to me.

 

Anthony

On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 3:49:47 PM UTC-4, mwolfe02 wrote:

+1 Productivity by design

On Mar 15, 2:13 pm, danto <web2p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/3/15 mart <msene...@gmail.com>

[Joe Barnhart]

IMNSHO, "Productivity by Design" sucks.

It is vague, wishy-washy, and banal. It could be said of every web
development tool from Apache to Zope. It fails to capture any of
web2py's essential advantages.

Massimo's offer of "rapid web development that scales" is closer to
the mark because it at least mentions one totally unique feature --
the fact that web2py scales from memory-stick to datacenter. (This is
what brought it to my attention first.)

Another unique feature of web2py is "it's Python all the way
down" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down for
the cosmological reference). Again, this is a totally unique property
of web2py that no other environment can claim. I find it liberating
that I only need to become proficient in Python (all right, and a
little JS) to get my job done.

Finally, the security model of web2py is vastly stronger than its
peers. Massimo has done more to make web2py resistant to hacks,
attacks, and vulnerabilities than any other platform that I'm familiar
with.

The familiar saw that web2py is more "productive" than other platforms
is the most difficult to prove and the quickest to start flame wars.
Who can say which platform is more "productive?" It is totally
subjective. Someone skilled in Java development, who has never seen
Python in his short life will probably not be more "productive" in
web2py. Sad, but true.

So how about: "web2py: scalable, pure python, and secure"

-- Joe B.

[Pystar]

+1

[Jonathan Lundell]

On Mar 15, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>
> how about "designed for productivity"?

Productivity. Security. Community.

[psikahtik]

Web2py: The python framework for speed, security and scalability.

[pbreit]

I think "python all the way down" invites controversy since the main criticism of web2py is that it is not pythonic.

[Robert Kooij]

•  Try to avoid vagueness or bad marketing terms. Be factual.
  
  
• Would not try to use more than three properties. (secure, scalabale, fast, easy to learn, productive, great community etc.) Pick the three that are most important.
  
  
• Let's not forget the obvious, explain the name a bit more, it's mainly to lure in people who see it for the first time. Previous poster said "speed", "security" and "scalability". But of what? Mention web development! That's what we are all here for! And as rapid as we can! :)

web2py: secure & scalable python framework for rapid web development

[Robert Kooij]

If it's all too boring, we could spice things up! :)

web2py: making web development sexy since 2007.

[rochacbruno]

We were in the same issue to choose the new logo. Had a votation and from a list with 94 logos we ended with the most simple and compact.

Today, I think everyone agrees that the logo is good enought.

I really think we need to drop "enterprise" so what about just dropping it?

As simple enought as web2py is.

I mean: lets drop it and leave just:
Web2py web framework.

When a new phrase for tagline come up here naturally. It can be included.

[Anthony]

I suppose we don't need a tagline at all. I think it only appears near the top of the home page and on the book cover, so it's not exactly ubiquitous. Not all frameworks have a tagline. We could just stick with a descriptive summary sentence on the home page, which is currently:

"Free open source full-stack framework for rapid development of fast, scalable, secure and portable database-driven web-based applications. Written and programmable in Python."

I suppose we could tweak that a bit, but it's not bad.

 

Of course, if we come up with a great tagline, we should use it -- but no tagline is probably better than a mediocre (or controversial) one.

 

Anthony

[Massimo Di Pierro]

I agree. I will remove it with the next commit.

On Mar 15, 9:50 pm, Anthony <abasta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I suppose we don't need a tagline at all. I think it only appears near the
> top of the home page and on the book cover, so it's not exactly ubiquitous.
> Not all frameworks have a tagline. We could just stick with a descriptive
> summary sentence on the home page, which is currently:
>
> "Free open source full-stack framework for rapid development of fast,

> scalable, secure <http://www.web2py.com/book/default/chapter/01#security>and portable database-driven web-based applications. Written and
> programmable in Python <http://www.python.org>."

[Anthony]

Note, it also appears as the <title> in the HTML <head> and vertically on the side of the page in the online book: http://www.web2py.com/book/.

On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 11:03:14 PM UTC-4, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:

I agree. I will remove it with the next commit.

[Luther Goh Lu Feng]

'Elegance through simplicity'

[Jason (spot) Brower]

I wanted it to mean as much as possible. It was intended to mean you can be productive and it was thought out with experienced hands when created.

On 15 Mar 2011 22:13, "Anthony" <abas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I like "Productivity by Design" because it sounds catchy and includes the word "Productivity", but I'm sort of wondering what we mean with "by design". Does that imply we didn't accidentally create a productive framework but have done so with forethought "by design"? Or perhaps that web2py achieves productivity by promoting a particular design to its web apps? I want it to be meaningful because it sounds cool, but it seems a little murky to me.
>  

> Anthony

>
> On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 3:49:47 PM UTC-4, mwolfe02 wrote:
>>
>> +1 Productivity by design
>>

>> On Mar 15, 2:13 pm, danto <web2p...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 2011/3/15 mart <msene...@gmail.com>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >

[Nik]

Here's my tounge in cheek proposal:
Web2py: puts the fun back in coding -- and extra time for playing with
taglines ...

[Anthony]

OK, that makes sense. :)

On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 11:56:17 PM UTC-4, encompass wrote:

I wanted it to mean as much as possible. It was intended to mean you can be productive and it was thought out with experienced hands when created.
On 15 Mar 2011 22:13, "Anthony" <abas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I like "Productivity by Design" because it sounds catchy and includes the word "Productivity", but I'm sort of wondering what we mean with "by design". Does that imply we didn't accidentally create a productive framework but have done so with forethought "by design"? Or perhaps that web2py achieves productivity by promoting a particular design to its web apps? I want it to be meaningful because it sounds cool, but it seems a little murky to me.
>  
> Anthony
>
> On Tuesday, March 15, 2011 3:49:47 PM UTC-4, mwolfe02 wrote:
>>
>> +1 Productivity by design
>>

>> On Mar 15, 2:13 pm, danto <web2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 2011/3/15 mart <msen...@gmail.com>

[luismurciano]

Here's mine, just for fun.

Web2py
{{=response.subtitle}}

Its an original tagline :P

[DenesL]

The easier
friendlier
always backward compatible
framework
that makes
secure pro web development
a joy.

(too many good things to say, so little space).

[Massimo Di Pierro]

how about "designed for productivity"?

On Mar 15, 2:49 pm, mwolfe02 <michael.joseph.wo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[villas]

I think the most important point is to get developers to try it. What
could achieve that? Grab their attention and inspire them to install
it. Why not 'sell' it like any other product using a tried and tested
formula. The byline leads into the marketing to make a compelling
case for any developer to try it...

------------------------

Spend 5 mins - to double your time!

Speed up your development cycle with web2py. This python framework
provides everything you need to build secure, fully featured apps. A
full installation takes less than five minutes and you will see
immediate results in your browser using the built-in IDE. It could be
the best investment of time you ever made.

Web2py is fully functional with Google App Engine and your application
easily uploaded to this highly-scalable, fully hosted service, free
of charge!

The cost to you is only five minutes of your time, but the benefits
will be immense. Take these 3 easy steps...

Step 1 Download from http://www.web2py.com
Step 2 Install and run
Step 3 Go to http://127... and create your new app (based on a
template)

...and see for yourself - web2py is simply more productive, by design!

[mwolfe02]

> IMNSHO, "Productivity by Design" sucks.
>
> It is vague, wishy-washy, and banal.  It could be said of every web
> development tool from Apache to Zope.  It fails to capture any of
> web2py's essential advantages.

I disagree. I think it speaks to the very thing that sets web2py
apart from every other Python framework. That "thing" is Massimo's
_design_ decision that "Don't Repeat Yourself" trumps "Explicit is
Better than Implicit".

Django in particular celebrates the fact that it strives to follow the
rule "Explicit is Better than Implicit" above all others. It's a good
rule to follow. There's nothing wrong with following it. It just
means that you end up repeating yourself an awful lot when you build a
web application because you do a lot of the same things over and over.

Massimo designed web2py from the very beginning with a different rule
(and goal) in mind: "Don't Repeat Yourself." The result is that you
can be more productive if for no other reason than you are writing
less code (because you don't have to repeat yourself so much).

The point I'm trying to make here is that "Productivity by Design" is
not vague or wishy-washy (at least in this particular case). It works
as a tagline, a mission statement, and a history lesson, all in three
simple (yet very meaningful) words.

My two cents.
- Mike

[LightOfMooN]

for me web2py is
"Easy and Power" :)

[Jason Brower]

It's nice to see people are getting my point of the tag-line. To me it's
simple to the point and brings all goals of the product together in a
few words.
So many things, to many to tag line, are made for our productivity. It
scratches more itches in web development than others.
BR,
Jason

[Massimo Di Pierro]

I like this bue we do not need "and". We could just go for "Easy,
Powerful, Secure"

[Joe Barnhart]

Mike --

I think if we are creating a tagline to differentiate web2py vs.
django, we've already lost sight of the bigger war.

As I said in my (deliberately provocative) statement, every web
framework ever created could claim "productivity" by the inherent
"design" of the framework. There's nothing in that statement that
even begins to convey the power of web2py, nor does it excite me or
tempt me to try it.

On the other hand, the fact I could run it by simply downloading it
onto a memory stick DID tempt me to try it. I was amazed and
intrigued by a complete web development framework that could live on a
stick and be made to run on any windoze, linux or mac computer.

A claim of "productive" is the emptiest statement we could possibly
make for web2py. Let's try to focus on advantages unique to web2py
and see if we can't recruit more converts.

-- Joe B.

On Mar 17, 6:19 am, mwolfe02 <michael.joseph.wo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > IMNSHO, "Productivity by Design" sucks.
>
> > It is vague, wishy-washy, and banal.  It could be said of every web
> > development tool from Apache to Zope.  It fails to capture any of
> > web2py's essential advantages.
>

[villas]

>> does it excite me or tempt me to try it.

+1 Joe

I really think the tagline should lead people into the idea of trying
the framework. For instance, to use Joe's example, 'A complete
framework and webserver on a stick', might intrigue me enough to try
it.

As marketeers we were always taught 'Attention, Interest, Desire,
Action'. We should treat this exercise as a classic example of trying
to 'market' web2py, not 'explain' it.

The tagline is the 'attention' part. We then have to build 'interest'
in the next few sentences.

IMO the 'desire' to use the framework will only come after the
install. We have to get to that point.

The idea that we should just 'sum up' the framework in a few words
misses the point. We should be grabbing the 'attention' with a
specific purpose!

-D

[VP]

I think the essence of web2py can be summarized in one word:
Pragmatic.

Many design decisions and advantages of web2py can be traced to this
word. Web2py ignores typical design patterns of python frameworks to
come up with something quite unique. This word justifies the
existence of web2py in the Python world, at the same time it gives a
compelling reason to attracts new comers.

So there is: Web2py: The Pragmatic Framework.

[pbreit]

Is "rapid development that scales" still on the table?

[annet]

Some time ago I built a web application in which we left room for
users to enter a tagline, since most users struggled to come up with a
tagline, we provided them with the following description:

A tagline is a slogan in which you state what your company/product/
service does or is and in what in differs from your competitors
company/product/service.

To me web2py is a 'web framework' and compared to its competitors I
think it is very 'straightforward'.


Kind regards,

Annet.

[rochacbruno]

I notice that "enterprise" still appears in <title> http://twitpic.com/4awuyv

Will it be removed? I am removing it from portuguese translation.

[Jason (spot) Brower]

And THIS is why we get a bad rap. :D
It's the stereotypical truth. :)

[AdamF]

Hi,

I've read all the discussion about the tagline... and unfortunately I cannot agree with most of the votes. But maybe it's because I am coming from enterprise world and I have a different perspective...

For me if you put enterprise in the tagline that means only a few things; it's a mature, production-ready, stable and high quality, proven software. Thats because enterprise companies avoid investing in betas or experimental solutions - they do prefer a stable, proven software even if it's not so cheap.

So if you want to attract developers like me - people with enterprise experience - leave this word in tagline. Otherwise they will choose Django only because it's more popular... 

Personally I would think about tagline that shows 3 points: enterprise quality and stability, agile development, fast learning

Regards

Adam

[Massimo Di Pierro]

That is what I always assumed.

[Richard Vézina]

And what about :

Web2py : The framework that solves the business needs

Richard

[villas]

Hi Adam,

That may be true -- for you. Web2py should target the market sector
that it wants and try to appeal to that sector.

Should web2py target an enterprise developer who has already chosen
his software strategy and often has huge investments in existing
vertical market systems and sometimes hasn't even heard of Python
(yes, really!!)?

For each one of those, there are a hundred if not a thousand small
developers who really need a simple, all-in-one framework to make
themselves productive.

I am in the second camp and know there are so many others like me.
Whenever I see the word 'enterprise' I end up dreaming about an
encapsulated, inheriting, object-orientated armageddon and wake up
screaming. But that's just me :)

-D

[pbreit]

In the non-enterprise world, it's the exact opposite. "Enterprise" implies expensive, unpleasant, old, hard to acquire/install/use, bloated, Java/.net, etc. I'd be surprised if many enterprises are even considering Django.

[Richard Vézina]

web2py : A small framework that allow you to think Big ;-)

Richard

[AdamF]

Hi,

 

>That may be true -- for you.  Web2py should target the market sector
>that it wants and try to appeal to that sector.

And thats the question that I am not able to answer: what is the real target for Web2py ?

I believe it deserves separate discussion. And I think it's much more important that the tagline itself. 

Anyway please don't underestimate the enterprise interest in Web2py. Even if it's not likely that it will be selected as main environment for some large scale business applications it still may be used for some side projects, internal tools or even as a part of some bigger solution. However when I talk about 'enterprise' I don't even think about the corporations itself, I am more interested in people. Poor developers that used to work in big companies but decided to start up a new one... thats my point: these people are very often a founders of new startups. These people are responsible for choosing technology. This is a real target.

But thats only my point of view :) I am quite new here and I may have no idea whats the real future of Web2py, where the developers want to go in next year or two, what target are they interested in... Maybe indeed its only me with my mind indoctrinated by over 10 years in corporate world :)

The bottom line is that if anyone would like to discuss how to attract new people to Web2py the tagline is IMHO the least important thing... documentation, features and web-content (blogs, tutorials, examples etc) is the path to go I think.

Cheers

Adam

[AdamF]

web2py : A small framework that allow you to think Big ;-)

Richard

Web2py: solid as rock, easy as pie ;)

I am not a native speaker so sorry if it sounds stupid ;)

Regards

Adam 

[villas]

>> And thats the question that I am not able to answer: what is the real target for Web2py?

There's only one person who initally decided the direction and the
essence of Massimo's vision is expressed in the preface to the book
and it's nice to be familiar with that.

I believe therefore web2py is about lowering barriers and giving small
developers the tools to compete with the bigger guys.

I think we should do everything we can to encourage and make it easy
for new people to try it. Those that try it will generally like it,
and in turn promote it.

* The Small Framework that allows you to think Big!
* Solid as a Rock, Easy as Py! (ok I changed the spelling of pie for
effect)

IMO those are nice ideas!

-D

[pbreit]

I would say it's not too different from Django and Rails. If you are contemplating building any type of database-driven web site/service, Web2py is definitely worth your consideration, especially if you are interested in ease-of-use.

[Jason (spot) Brower]

Yeah... Small framework big thought. Or something similar.

[G. Clifford Williams]

Thank you Adam, I agree.

*apologies for the late follow up*

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 06:23:37AM -0700, AdamF spake:

[Arun K.Rajeevan]

Productive by design is good

here goes some of my thoughts,

1. coding at thought's speed.
   
2. secure doesn't mean it's slow
   
3. fun back at web development
   
4. code less express more
5. framework for people who does things to do

[Massimo Di Pierro]

I does not. It is one of my favorites.

[JorgeRpo]

I like your number 4, with a tweak:

"CODE LESS, ACCOMPLISH MORE"