Sutton Coldfield problems tonight ?

[p.j....@btinternet.com]

I wonder if anyone is having the same problems as I and my neighbours
are experiencing.

BBC2 channell is TXing ITV and the ITV frequency is just 'snow' ie. no
TX.

Just wondering if any guys out there have more info !

Cheers :)

[Ben A L Jemmett]

p.j....@btinternet.com wrote:
> I wonder if anyone is having the same problems as I and my neighbours
> are experiencing.
>
> BBC2 channell is TXing ITV and the ITV frequency is just 'snow' ie. no
> TX.

I believe that's pretty much what happens in the 'intermediate' stage
of digital switchover. I think Sutton Coldfield started DSO recently
and completes later this week, and in between the two switchover dates
BBC 2 disappears to make room for the BBC digital multiplex.

Here (receiving off Oxford) BBC 2 disappeared and Channel 4 started
transmitting on BBC 2's frequency last week for the same reason.

--
Regards,
Ben A L Jemmett.
http://flatpack.microwavepizza.co.uk/

[p.j....@btinternet.com]

I have just double checked, SC is not TXing BBC2 ??
Any thoughts about this, hope it's fixed soon, but it is an
interesting glitch. ITV is being TXed on chan 40 at the moment !!

[p.j....@btinternet.com]

On Sep 19, 10:10 pm, "Ben A L Jemmett"
<newsgro...@microwavepizza.co.uk> wrote:

I'm watching on the 'old' anologue channels, Does the new digital
update affect these anologue frequencies ??
Thanks for your reply :)

[Mark Carver]

p.j....@btinternet.com wrote:

> I have just double checked, SC is not TXing BBC2 ??
> Any thoughts about this, hope it's fixed soon, but it is an
> interesting glitch. ITV is being TXed on chan 40 at the moment !!

Yes, that's how it's been since Sept 7th, and is correct. The high power BBC A
mux took Ch 43, so ITV moved to BBC 2's vacated position, Ch 40.

It's all detailed here:-

<http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/transmitternetwork/tools__and__resources/almanac/installer_newsletters_transmitter_groups2009_pdfs/Sutton_Coldfield_and_Fenton_1MO_100811_final.pdf>

I wouldn't worry, in just over 24 hours from now, all of Sutton Coldfield's
analogue TV transmissions will be gone forever.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

[Mark Carver]

p.j....@btinternet.com wrote:

> I'm watching on the 'old' anologue channels, Does the new digital
> update affect these anologue frequencies ??

Have you taken any notice at all of the literature Digital UK have presumably
stuffed through your letterbox over the last 6 months ?

[Andy Burns]

p.j....@btinternet.com wrote:

>> BBC2 channell is TXing ITV and the ITV frequency is just 'snow' ie. no
>> TX
>

> I'm watching on the 'old' anologue channels, Does the new digital
> update affect these anologue frequencies ??

Yes!!

BBC2 analogue was switched off permanently nearly two weeks ago, ITV1
analogue moved temporarily to BBC2's old channel (as you are seeing),
after midnight tomorrow all your analogue stations will be gone for
good, if you haven't yet got an STB for each TV you actually use, I
suggest you should pop down to the shops tomorrow ...

[p.j....@btinternet.com]

On Sep 19, 10:27 pm, Andy Burns <usenet.aug2...@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote:

Very many thanks for the most informitave replies guys ;-)

Mark - NO!! I've not read any info about this, but thanks, I
appreciate your reply.

I'm not much of a TV 'animal' and I rarely turn it on unless there is
something I really want to watch. Most of my viewing is 'on demand
etc ' . I must say that I have waiting for this moment so that I can
cancell my Direct Debit for the TV Licence ;-)

Watching Live TV is not a great interest to me and I have some close
friends where I can view interesting live news, should I wish :)

Many thanks guys for your replies, I am now much better informed, I
appreciate it, Cheers :)

[J G Miller]

On Monday, September 19th, 2011 at 14:40:17 -0700, P.J. Ashby wrote:

> I'm not much of a TV 'animal' and I rarely turn it on unless there is
> something I really want to watch.

Do your neighbors also ignore the information pushed through their
letterbox?

[Bill Wright]

In my experience of attempting to contact residents of schemes using
communal TV systems pretty well everyone ignores information pushed
through their letter box. The when the system changes to a different
transmitter they besiege the housing office and demand to know why they
were not warned.

Bill

[Guess]

"Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9dpqf5...@mid.individual.net...

I am on Fenton Transmitter which is also going through DSO and I have NOT
had any information through the letter box at all so it does not surprise me
that some people do not know about the DSO which was two weeks ago and
tomorrow night. I have seen it in the local paper though but many people
don't have it around here.
Where I live we had more information about Winter Hill DSO last year
telling us we MUST retune on a certain date and yet we are extreme border
for it, and I do mean extreme, yet within 3 miles of Fenton nothing!!

Iain

[J G Miller]

On Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 at 00:45:06h +0100, Bill Wright explained:

> In my experience of attempting to contact residents of schemes using
> communal TV systems pretty well everyone ignores information pushed
> through their letter box.

This does of course assume that the people can read, or at least have
a reading comprehension to understand such technical matters.

Maybe voice mail alerts would be more effective?

> The when the system changes to a different transmitter they besiege
> the housing office and demand to know why they were not warned.

I wonder if some days you ask yourself "why do we bother?"

[Bill Wright]

J G Miller wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 at 00:45:06h +0100, Bill Wright explained:
>
>> In my experience of attempting to contact residents of schemes using
>> communal TV systems pretty well everyone ignores information pushed
>> through their letter box.
>
> This does of course assume that the people can read, or at least have
> a reading comprehension to understand such technical matters.

Well, in a YOI functional illiteracy is 40 to 60%, so I doubt if if it's
much different on the estates.

We have tried replacing one analogue channel with a PC-originated
Powerpoint playout. That worked pretty well but it was a faff.

>
> Maybe voice mail alerts would be more effective?

We don't have their phone numbers. They change phones as fast as they
change sex partners.

>
>> The when the system changes to a different transmitter they besiege
>> the housing office and demand to know why they were not warned.
>
> I wonder if some days you ask yourself "why do we bother?"

I think everyone dealing with the GBP has moments when they wonder that.

Bill

[Dave Liquorice]

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 08:45:21 +0100, Guess wrote:

> Where I live we had more information about Winter Hill DSO last year
> telling us we MUST retune on a certain date and yet we are extreme
> border for it, and I do mean extreme, yet within 3 miles of Fenton
> nothing!!

We had a little bit of stuff when Caldbeck went a couple(?) of years
back, we actually switch sometime next year... We are geographically
located in the Border TV area but the local four channel only relay
(the only terrestial signal available for most around here) is a
relay of Pontop Pike...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[p.j....@btinternet.com]

Hiya JG,

appreciate your reply, however, I am listed under :
http://www2.royalmail.com/you-home/controlling-your-mail

This is where you can ask Royal Mail to stop delivering 'junk' mail to
your address.
This is probably why I have recieved no information through my letter
box :)

By the way I can read and write very well otherwise I would not have
got my MSc.
Any problems with this post are due to 'typos' or whaterver it is
called and as long as my message is understood I cant be bothered to
spell cheque !

Thanks for the replies on this guys, including those 'sarcastic'
camments. By the way the only info I have seen is on TV 'You will
need to retune your freeview box'

Also for what it's worth, I have been involved with RF TX & RX for
many years so I know my onions LOL !

Thanks,

Pete

[Jerry]

"Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9dpqf5...@mid.individual.net...

: p.j....@btinternet.com wrote:
:
: > I'm watching on the 'old' anologue channels, Does the new
digital
: > update affect these anologue frequencies ??
:
: Have you taken any notice at all of the literature Digital UK
have presumably
: stuffed through your letterbox over the last 6 months ?

:

...and on that subject, anyone care to speculate on the
'rational' for Digital UK or who ever to plaster DVB-T channels
with on screen DOGs informing the viewer that they need to plan a
switch to DVB receivers - talk about preaching to the converted,
duh!
--
Regards, Jerry.

[J G Miller]

On Wednesday, September 21st, 2011 at 11:07:26h -0700, P.J. Ashby wrote:

> On Sep 19, 11:50 pm, J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote:
>> On Monday, September 19th, 2011 at 14:40:17 -0700, P.J. Ashby wrote:
>> > I'm not much of a TV 'animal'  and I rarely turn it on unless there
>> > is something I really want to watch.
>>
>> Do your neighbors also ignore the information pushed through their
>> letterbox?

> This is probably why I have recieved no information through my letter box

You did not answer the question.

It did not ask if you ignored or received the information,
but asked if your neighbors ignored the information.

[MB]

On 19/09/2011 22:28, Mark Carver wrote:
> p.j....@btinternet.com wrote:
>
>> I'm watching on the 'old' anologue channels, Does the new digital
>> update affect these anologue frequencies ??
>
> Have you taken any notice at all of the literature Digital UK have
> presumably stuffed through your letterbox over the last 6 months ?
>
>

Perhaps you need to check where he lives. It is quite possible that he
is not considered to be in the Sutton Coldfield service area by the
Digital UK computers so not received anything through his letterbox.

[Mark Carver]

Well, possible, but unlikely IMHO. Sutton Coldfield and Oxford are the
last two transmitters in the Central regional to undergo DSO, and Oxford
completes that process next week.

All other neighboring regions where SC is receivable (and likely to be
used by the same street) have also switched. So, by definition, where
ever he lives, he should have had had something about DSO stuffed
through his door by now, even if it was unrelated to SC itself.

[J G Miller]

On Thursday, September 22nd, 2011 at 16:08:14h +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

> So, by definition, where ever he lives, he should have had had
> something about DSO stuffed through his door by now, even if it
> was unrelated to SC itself.

Unless it was counted as junk mail and not delivered, but that does
seem rather unlikely.

But that would not be a reason for his neighbors not to receive
anything in their mailboxes.

The probability of a whole neighborhood receiving nothing, although
possible, is highly unlikely, and furthermore in analog switchoff
areas there has been much publicity about the even in local media
eg radio and newspapers and posters and events, so the probability
of everybody in the neighborhood being aware from any of the other
sources is highly unlikely unless these people are all hermits
(cue Monty Python clip).

As for people complaining that it was a shock for analog TV to
be "just shutdown" whilst they were watching after midnight,
what did they expect?

[MB]

I think the people here overestimate ordinary people's knowledge and
interest in the matter. He could be watching Sutton from physically in
an area that has already switched over so both not received any
publicity and not see any. It could be that his neighbours all watch
satellite - more likely if an area with poor reception from any
terrestrial site. It's not uncommon for people to have no idea where
their TV signal comes from.

I spoke to a few people around DSO time who did not have much idea what
was happening. One family had been told by a dealer previously that
they would not get any terrestrial TV when analogue went off, he was
obviously biased because trying to sell them satellite systems. They
took quite some convincing that their relay station, that was literally
across the road from them, would be getting digital.

[Bill Wright]

J G Miller wrote:

> As for people complaining that it was a shock for analog TV to
> be "just shutdown" whilst they were watching after midnight,
> what did they expect?
>

When a communal system has suffered a breakdown and I subsequently turn
up to fix it, a common complaint is, "Why didn't the council warn us?"

If they complain that they are missing a programme I tell them to nip in
and record it, so they can watch it later when the aerial's working again.

Bill

[hwh]

Might as well sell them a 3D aerial while you're at it!

gr, hwh

[J G Miller]

On Thursday, September 22nd, 2011 at 18:53:29h +0100, MB wrote:

> It could be that his neighbours all watch satellite

You did not read what the original poster wrote --

QUOTE

I wonder if anyone is having the same problems as I and
my neighbours are experiencing.

UNQUOTE

How would his neighbors be experiencing the same problem if
they were all watching on satellite as you suggest?

> It's not uncommon for people to have no idea where
> their TV signal comes from.

It is not uncommon for people to have no idea.

[Jerry]

"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
news:j5g1gf$vq8$1...@dont-email.me...

: On Thursday, September 22nd, 2011 at 18:53:29h +0100, MB wrote:
:
: > It could be that his neighbours all watch satellite
:
: You did not read what the original poster wrote --
:
: QUOTE
: I wonder if anyone is having the same problems as I and
: my neighbours are experiencing.
: UNQUOTE

<snip>

...and how do you know that the OPs neighbour doesn't *normally*
watch via satellite (or indeed DVB-T) but, upon being asked by
the OP, then tried to watch BBC2 via analogue and thus confirmed
the problem and having watched via satellite for the last 10
years didn't bother with any of the DSO bumf that was feed
through the letter box - like you wouldn't if you had already DSO
your receivers?!

[Zero Tolerance]

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:12:47 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG>
wrote:

>As for people complaining that it was a shock for analog TV to
>be "just shutdown" whilst they were watching after midnight,
>what did they expect?

There was a time when something like that would have been preceded by
an on-air announcement for people watching at the time, and perhaps a
'This service has closed - to continue watching [take such and such an
action]' information caption radiated for a decent amount of time
(weeks at least)

Nowadays there are no announcements and the channel just pulls the
plug in the middle of a programme, because of the rather bad attitude
that it just doesn't matter.

Digital UK are plastering helpful advertising around pre-switchover
areas which basically say "YOUR TV CHANNELS WILL DISAPPEAR SOON" but
offer exactly NO explanation about why or what to do. Well done,
gents. Bonuses all round for another 'impactful' campaign.

The apparent state of the entire broadcast industry is that nobody
gives a fuck. Furthermore, that there is nobody left who even knows
HOW to give a fuck.

--

[Bill Wright]

J G Miller wrote:

> It is not uncommon for people to have no idea.

Also common is for people to lots of firmly-held ideas which are wrong.

Bill

[Mark Carver]

On 23/09/2011 00:41, Zero Tolerance wrote:

> There was a time when something like that would have been preceded by
> an on-air announcement for people watching at the time, and perhaps a
> 'This service has closed - to continue watching [take such and such an
> action]' information caption radiated for a decent amount of time
> (weeks at least)

To be slightly fair, for the Sutton Coldfield and Emley switch offs,
there were announcements on BBC 1 and 2 at the end of the final full
programmes to be transmitted. For BBC 1 and 2 Black Hill, BBC Scotland
made similar announcements, and for BBC 1 Wenvoe BBC Wales did this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er4UyIqC2s4

But they are exceptions, all the other sites so far have just had the
plug pulled, (ITV/4/5 mid programme) with no announcements. It might
well be difficult for a caption to be radiated in most cases, because
usually the three of the main four or five analogue UHF allocations, are
redeployed straight away for the new post DSO muxes. However, in all
cases so far, C5 analogue's allocation (usually UHF Ch 35 and 37)
just gets switched off. It may not need to at all sites, so there would
be some mileage I feel in C5 analogue radiating a caption after DSO for
a few days explaining where it, and the other four have buggered off to ?

[Bill Wright]

Mark Carver wrote:


> It may not need to at all sites, so there would
> be some mileage I feel in C5 analogue radiating a caption after DSO for
> a few days explaining where it, and the other four have buggered off to ?
>

But they don't care any more.

Bill

[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:41:21 GMT, Zero Tolerance wrote:

>> As for people complaining that it was a shock for analog TV to
>> be "just shutdown" whilst they were watching after midnight,
>> what did they expect?
>
> There was a time when something like that would have been preceded by
> an on-air announcement for people watching at the time, and perhaps a
> 'This service has closed - to continue watching [take such and such an
> action]' information caption radiated for a decent amount of time
> (weeks at least)

Way back when DSO was starting I thought the analogue channels
between the first and second stages of DSO from a given Tx had a
caption superimposed telling people to get off their arses and set up
a digi box of some sort as at date/time the transmission they where
watching would cease.

I think we have another 12 months or so before DSO here, not that we
have watched analogue for years with Freesat from Sky and now
Freesat. In fact the only time the set has been tuned to analogue was
to set it up or when Arqiva ask me to check if channel x is missing
or is there anything wrong with ...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <4e7bc579...@enews.newsguy.com>, Zero Tolerance

<Ze...@0spam.want.no.spam.zzz> writes:
>On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:12:47 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG>
>wrote:
>
>>As for people complaining that it was a shock for analog TV to
>>be "just shutdown" whilst they were watching after midnight,
>>what did they expect?
>
>There was a time when something like that would have been preceded by
>an on-air announcement for people watching at the time, and perhaps a
>'This service has closed - to continue watching [take such and such an
>action]' information caption radiated for a decent amount of time
>(weeks at least)

I thought that when DSO was first planned, it was the intention to have
just such on-screen captions for the last few days.

>
>Nowadays there are no announcements and the channel just pulls the
>plug in the middle of a programme, because of the rather bad attitude
>that it just doesn't matter.
>
>Digital UK are plastering helpful advertising around pre-switchover
>areas which basically say "YOUR TV CHANNELS WILL DISAPPEAR SOON" but
>offer exactly NO explanation about why or what to do. Well done,
>gents. Bonuses all round for another 'impactful' campaign.

Yes, just giving alarm (and playing into the hands of unscrupulous,
especially satellite sellers).

>
>The apparent state of the entire broadcast industry is that nobody
>gives a fuck. Furthermore, that there is nobody left who even knows
>HOW to give a fuck.
>

(Unfortunately, that won't have the result of them dying out!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

# 10^-12 boos = 1 picoboo # 2*10^3 mockingbirds = 2 kilo mockingbird
# 10^21 piccolos = 1 gigolo # 10^12 microphones = 1 megaphone
# 10**9 questions = 1 gigawhat

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <9e2mro...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
<mark....@invalid.invalid> writes:
[]

>But they are exceptions, all the other sites so far have just had the
>plug pulled, (ITV/4/5 mid programme) with no announcements. It might
>well be difficult for a caption to be radiated in most cases, because
>usually the three of the main four or five analogue UHF allocations,
>are redeployed straight away for the new post DSO muxes. However, in
>all cases so far, C5 analogue's allocation (usually UHF Ch 35 and 37)
>just gets switched off. It may not need to at all sites, so there would
>be some mileage I feel in C5 analogue radiating a caption after DSO for
>a few days explaining where it, and the other four have buggered off to
>?
>

At first I was puzzled what you were saying, then I realised you meant
_after_ the changeover. But there's no good reason I can see why a
caption should not be added for a few days _before_. (Other than the
inability to GAF, that is.)

[Mark Carver]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> At first I was puzzled what you were saying, then I realised you meant
> _after_ the changeover. But there's no good reason I can see why a
> caption should not be added for a few days _before_. (Other than the
> inability to GAF, that is.)

Well the captions are supposed to be there before, from 6 months before DSO,
they are not permanent, AIUI they appear for 2 or 3 mins at a time, but with
increasing regularity as the DSO date nears. I've yet to see one, but I only
tune to analogue out of morbid curiosity, so the chance of seeing one is about
the same as a NASA satellite landing on me.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <9e5jpc...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver

<mark....@invalid.invalid> writes:
>J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> At first I was puzzled what you were saying, then I realised you
>>meant _after_ the changeover. But there's no good reason I can see
>>why a caption should not be added for a few days _before_. (Other
>>than the inability to GAF, that is.)
>
>Well the captions are supposed to be there before, from 6 months before
>DSO, they are not permanent, AIUI they appear for 2 or 3 mins at a
>time, but with increasing regularity as the DSO date nears. I've yet to
>see one, but I only tune to analogue out of morbid curiosity, so the
>chance of seeing one is about the same as a NASA satellite landing on me.
>

Does anyone have the gen. on what the duration and frequency (-ies)
actually is (are) supposed to be? Once a day, hour, ...?

[Mark Carver]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <9e5jpc...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver

>> Well the captions are supposed to be there before, from 6 months
>> before DSO, they are not permanent, AIUI they appear for 2 or 3 mins
>> at a time, but with increasing regularity as the DSO date nears. I've
>> yet to see one, but I only tune to analogue out of morbid curiosity,
>> so the chance of seeing one is about the same as a NASA satellite
>> landing on me.
>>
> Does anyone have the gen. on what the duration and frequency (-ies)
> actually is (are) supposed to be? Once a day, hour, ...?

Don't know, but I was told they are separately addressable, and triggerable by
the broadcasters themselves, so presumably that means Red Bee fire off the
Beeb's and C4's, and the Chiswick and Leeds playout centres look after ITV's ?

When, and how often who knows ?

[J G Miller]

On Saturday, September 24th, 2011 at 05:35:30h +0100, J. P. Gilliver explained:

> (and playing into the hands of unscrupulous, especially satellite sellers).

Boeing

<http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/>

and Hughes?

<http://www.hughes.COM/Pages/Default.aspx>

And remember, it is not just the price of the satellite,
it is the cost of the insurance as well.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <j5kqlq$eoh$3...@dont-email.me>, J G Miller <mil...@yoyo.ORG>
writes:

<grin> All right, SAJ, but really you know I was using the word in what
is now (one of) its common meanings, so I meant sellers of satellite
television receiving equipment (and, really, contracts).

I wonder if anyone's going to claim on the insurance you mention over
the one that's coming down today (probably down by now) ... (-:

[J G Miller]

On Saturday, September 24th, 2011 at 18:35:55h +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

> I wonder if anyone's going to claim on the insurance you mention over
> the one that's coming down today (probably down by now) ... (-:

The last report from AP is that nobody knows yet where it landed

<http://www.sltrib.COM/sltrib/world/52633468-68/satellite-nasa-space-debris.html.csp>

And the insurance I was thinking of was with regard to launch and
deployment failure which is the most critical aspect of satellite
management as far as I am aware.