Kawasaki KLF300 Quad - It's broke!
Linus Surguy
Hi,
Can anyone on here help, or point me in the best place for some on-line
assistance before I give up and get an expert in.
I have been offered a Kawasaki KLF300 Quad to use for some chores, on the basis
that it is broke at the moment, but if I get it working then can treat it as my
own.
Now the problem(s):
It has been standing for quite a long time (years).
It might have been worked on by someone else to get it going.
Symptoms:
Once power is applied (battery was flat), engine turns but does not fire.
Compression is present, and spark present.
If petrol poured straight into cylinder and then engine turned over still no
real life, no proper firing, but some muffled pops.
Carb was checked and found to be bunged up with syrup like stuff - presumbly old
dead petrol, but a bit mysterious. Fully cleaned and rebuilt, but still it wont
go.
Fuel is getting to cylinder now because plug wet.
Guesses:
I presume now that the timing must be completely wrong, but presumably it is all
electronic? Is there any scope for adjustment?
What else could be wrong?
Any ideas on what I should do next?!
Many thanks for any and all help!
Linus
--
Linus Surguy http://telesave.world.co.uk - Up to 94% off BT!
UK: 2.8/1.7/1.5p USA:3p Germany 3p Australia:4p Ireland:4p
AnyOne ForAPint
news:3bef9a1e....@10.0.0.3...
>
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone on here help, or point me in the best place for some on-line
> assistance before I give up and get an expert in.
>
> Symptoms:
>
> Once power is applied (battery was flat), engine turns but does not fire.
> Compression is present, and spark present.
> If petrol poured straight into cylinder and then engine turned over still
no
> real life, no proper firing, but some muffled pops.
>
> Carb was checked and found to be bunged up with syrup like stuff -
presumbly old
> dead petrol, but a bit mysterious. Fully cleaned and rebuilt, but still it
wont
> go.
>
> Fuel is getting to cylinder now because plug wet.
You are me AICMFF non working GPZ500 engines
--
Any1
Salt corroded FZS600 BOTAFOF#24 BOTAFOT#98
"There isn't anything that if fiddled with long enough can't be broken
permanently"
Mark G Phillips
<Any14aPi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Linus Surguy" <li...@world.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:3bef9a1e....@10.0.0.3...
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can anyone on here help, or point me in the best place for some on-line
>> assistance before I give up and get an expert in.
>>
><snip>
>> Symptoms:
>>
>> Once power is applied (battery was flat), engine turns but does not fire.
>> Compression is present, and spark present.
>> If petrol poured straight into cylinder and then engine turned over still
>no
>> real life, no proper firing, but some muffled pops.
>>
>> Carb was checked and found to be bunged up with syrup like stuff -
>presumbly old
>> dead petrol, but a bit mysterious. Fully cleaned and rebuilt, but still it
>wont
>> go.
>>
>> Fuel is getting to cylinder now because plug wet.
>
>
>You are me AICMFF non working GPZ500 engines
>
Nah, should be me, 'cos I need a free GPZ500 engine. [1]
Mark.
[1] Although I'll probably have to buy one with my redundancy dosh,
when it comes through.
--
Kawasaki GPZ 500S.... now at 52,000 miles plus.
Now in need of some TLC in the engine department.
Stewart Hargrave
li...@world.co.uk (Linus Surguy) thusly:
>
>Hi,
>
>Can anyone on here help, or point me in the best place for some on-line
>assistance before I give up and get an expert in.
>
>I have been offered a Kawasaki KLF300 Quad to use for some chores, on the basis
>that it is broke at the moment, but if I get it working then can treat it as my
>own.
>
>Now the problem(s):
<snip>
Don't know this vehicle *at all*. But...
I would be concerned about the battery. A battery that has been flat
for a long time may well be useless. Deceptively, it may hold enough
charge to turn the engine over for a while, but as that application
uses up a lot of output, there may not be enough juice in a weak
battery to provide an effective spark. Just 'cos you can see a spark
with the plug out doesn't mean it will be happening under the adverse
conditions of compression. Also, once your plugs have got wet they
have to be *thoroughly* dried to make them work again. I stick the
ends in the flame of my gas cooker for a minute or so. Spark plugs can
also mysteriously go "off".
Also consider the petrol - if that is several years old it will have
lost much of its combustibility.
Beyond this, you need to work your way through the fundamentals of
internal combustion engines. You need fuel/air mix, compression,
ignition and exhaust, and these things all have to happen at the right
times.
Establish that fuel mix is getting in, the air box clear and all
ducting unobstructed, that the carb is able to vaporise and deliver
the petrol properly (jets are clear, needles free to move, float valve
working, all passageways clear, any diaphragms unsplit, all joints
airtight, cold-start enrichment functioning), check the exhaust for
obstruction - temporarily disconnecting it altogether if you have any
doubts. Also check that the inlet and exhaust valves are opening at
the right times.
But to begin with I'd be swapping batteries.
--
Stewart Hargrave
Kawasaki 1000GTR; Volvo 740;
'Elegance' was not in the design briefs
Linus Surguy
>
>Don't know this vehicle *at all*. But...
Thanks for your help so far,
<many helpful comments snipped below>
>
>I would be concerned about the battery. A battery that has been flat
>for a long time may well be useless. Deceptively, it may hold enough
>charge to turn the engine over for a while, but as that application
>uses up a lot of output, there may not be enough juice in a weak
>battery to provide an effective spark. Just 'cos you can see a spark
>with the plug out doesn't mean it will be happening under the adverse
The battery is as dead as a dead thing, however, all the time I have been
testing I have had the quad connected to a car with jump leads, so that should
have covered the battery issue.
>conditions of compression. Also, once your plugs have got wet they
>have to be *thoroughly* dried to make them work again. I stick the
>ends in the flame of my gas cooker for a minute or so. Spark plugs can
>also mysteriously go "off".
Not quite gone this far, but have used a ciggie lighter.
>Also consider the petrol - if that is several years old it will have
>lost much of its combustibility.
Drained, and replaced with brand new super-unleaded.
>Establish that fuel mix is getting in, the air box clear and all
Run without air-filter, and lid off just to make sure.
>ducting unobstructed, that the carb is able to vaporise and deliver
>the petrol properly (jets are clear, needles free to move, float valve
>working, all passageways clear, any diaphragms unsplit, all joints
>airtight, cold-start enrichment functioning)
Carb stripped, appropriate bits cleaned or blown through with airline etc etc.
> check the exhaust for
>obstruction - temporarily disconnecting it altogether if you have any
Havnt actually done this, although occasional farts of smoke have issued from
it, so I have presumed that it is ok.
>doubts. Also check that the inlet and exhaust valves are opening at
>the right times.
This is where my (lack of) experience lets me down, I have no idea how to check
and/or adjust the above, or ignition timing on this beast.
Thanks again so far!
AnyOne ForAPint
message news:3bf0471a...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:54:47 GMT, there came forth an utterance from
> li...@world.co.uk (Linus Surguy) thusly:
<snip carbon copy of current issue with GPZ engine>
<snip stuff about battery>
Battery is fine, spark is good but might try new coils just in case.
> Also consider the petrol - if that is several years old it will have
> lost much of its combustibility.
Really? The petrol has been standing for about 2 years in a container
outside (yes through winter an' all). So it might be a simple as UKP2 of
petrol?
<snip other advice>
Ace
<Any14aPi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Stewart Hargrave" <tshargrave@uk(spppamppproofed)online.co.uk> wrote in
>message news:3bf0471a...@news.cis.dfn.de...
>> Also consider the petrol - if that is several years old it will have
>> lost much of its combustibility.
>
>Really?
No, not really. This old wives' tale crops up regularly but has no
basis in fact. I've spoken to industrial chemists on this who assure
me that the composition of petrol will not noticeably change over
time.
>The petrol has been standing for about 2 years in a container
>outside (yes through winter an' all). So it might be a simple as UKP2 of
>petrol?
Well you can try it if you like, but my money's on it making no
difference.
--
Ace in Basel
955i Sprint ST, CB400F2, V70 XC & assorted pushbikes
BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, UKRMSPC#1, DFV#8
The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmfaq1.html
AnyOne ForAPint
news:3bf0f80e.549780@localhost...
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:30:48 -0000, "AnyOne ForAPint"
> <Any14aPi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Stewart Hargrave" <tshargrave@uk(spppamppproofed)online.co.uk> wrote in
> >message news:3bf0471a...@news.cis.dfn.de...
>
> >> Also consider the petrol - if that is several years old it will have
> >> lost much of its combustibility.
> >
> >Really?
>
> No, not really. This old wives' tale crops up regularly but has no
> basis in fact. I've spoken to industrial chemists on this who assure
> me that the composition of petrol will not noticeably change over
> time.
>
> >The petrol has been standing for about 2 years in a container
> >outside (yes through winter an' all). So it might be a simple as UKP2 of
> >petrol?
>
> Well you can try it if you like, but my money's on it making no
> difference.
Arse! It's so, so close to working but can I get the bastid to fire up?
No.
Any other suggestions then?
AnyOne ForAPint
news:3bf02e6...@news.ntlworld.com...
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:56:59 -0000, "AnyOne ForAPint"
> <Any14aPi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Linus Surguy" <li...@world.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:3bef9a1e....@10.0.0.3...
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Can anyone on here help, or point me in the best place for some on-line
> >> assistance before I give up and get an expert in.
> >>
<snip>
> >You are me AICMFF non working GPZ500 engines
> >
> Nah, should be me, 'cos I need a free GPZ500 engine. [1]
>
> Mark.
>
> [1] Although I'll probably have to buy one with my redundancy dosh,
> when it comes through.
If you need any advice on refitting the new engine let me know. Your
starter for 10...When ordering the new(er) engine make sure you get one with
the fly wheel attached. If you don't have Mr Kawasaki special tool blah
then it is a rit bastid to remove. And no, a standard fly-wheel puller
won't work because the edges of the bastid thing are fecking well bastid
rounded so it keeps bloody well slipping off (removing bits off you as it
does so).
Stewart Hargrave
"AnyOne ForAPint" <Any14aPi...@hotmail.com> thusly:
>"Stewart Hargrave" <tshargrave@uk(spppamppproofed)online.co.uk> wrote in
>message news:3bf0471a...@news.cis.dfn.de...
>> Also consider the petrol - if that is several years old it will have
>> lost much of its combustibility.
>
>Really? The petrol has been standing for about 2 years in a container
>outside (yes through winter an' all). So it might be a simple as UKP2 of
>petrol?
Well I'm no chemist, but it would seem to me that the easily
combustible volatile parts of petrol will all volitate[1] over time,
even in a relatively well sealed container. My practical experience of
this is my lawnmower which won't start after a winter in the shed
until I replace the petrol in it.
[1] I just made it up.
Stewart Hargrave
b.ro...@virgin.net (Ace) thusly:
>On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:30:48 -0000, "AnyOne ForAPint"
><Any14aPi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Stewart Hargrave" <tshargrave@uk(spppamppproofed)online.co.uk> wrote in
>>message news:3bf0471a...@news.cis.dfn.de...
>
>>> Also consider the petrol - if that is several years old it will have
>>> lost much of its combustibility.
>>
>>Really?
>
>No, not really. This old wives' tale crops up regularly but has no
>basis in fact. I've spoken to industrial chemists on this who assure
>me that the composition of petrol will not noticeably change over
>time.
I'm just going outside to try an experiment with an old can of petrol.
I may be some time.
Ace
Hargrave<tshargrave@uk(spppamppproofed)online.co.uk> wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:30:48 -0000, there came forth an utterance from
>"AnyOne ForAPint" <Any14aPi...@hotmail.com> thusly:
>
>>"Stewart Hargrave" <tshargrave@uk(spppamppproofed)online.co.uk> wrote in
>>message news:3bf0471a...@news.cis.dfn.de...
>
>>> Also consider the petrol - if that is several years old it will have
>>> lost much of its combustibility.
>>
>>Really? The petrol has been standing for about 2 years in a container
>>outside (yes through winter an' all). So it might be a simple as UKP2 of
>>petrol?
>
>Well I'm no chemist, but it would seem to me that the easily
>combustible volatile parts of petrol will all volitate[1] over time,
>even in a relatively well sealed container. My practical experience of
>this is my lawnmower which won't start after a winter in the shed
>until I replace the petrol in it.
When this was discussed a year or two back I took it up with my
Sister-in-law, who's a chemist (of the industrial variety) 'cos I
thought this might be an explanation for people's belief in this
phenomenon.
She reckoned that the relative volatility of the compounds within the
petrol was sufficiently close that there would be no appreciable
change over time, particularly in a sealed container.
It seems much more likely that 'Old Petrol Syndrome' is caused by a
build-up of sludge in the bottom of the tank. Impurities are normally
held in suspension in the liquid, but when left standing for a long
time they may precipitate out. Even then, a good shake ought to re-mix
it, unless it's got into the carbs/filter/tap, in which case they'll
need cleaning.