Follow up from Kent Police
Champ
Sedan trip, I was stopped by the police on the M20. The main reason
they stopped me was that they ran a check on my numberplate (having ot
within about 10 feet of me to read it, because it's so small, ahem),
and the bike didn't show up on the insurance register. The roadside
conversation was quite robust, and I was warned that the bike could be
impounded if I couldn't demonstrate that I was insured. Eventually,
after I gave them the number plate of another of my bikes, that did
show up on the register, they let me go with a producer.
This pissed me off at the time, and when I got home I wrote a letter
to the Kent Police "Professional Standards" department. I got a
letter back saying an officer would call to discuss. Which he did
today.
So, I had quite a friendly chat with a Sgt Galvin, and he explained
that people without insurance always lie and say they have, and some
robust questioning is usually required to get to the truth. This, I
think, is fair enough. They can call insurance company hotlines from
the roadside; however, to do this, you need to remember who you are
insured with. As I explained, having got quotes from a dozen web
sites when I renewed a couple of months earlier, I really couldn't
remember who I'd finally gone with, and anyway, it was a broker server
- it turns out that MasterQuote mostly places with Equity Red Star,
but I would never have known that without checking the paperwork.
The problem here is that the insurance database is voluntary. While
it may be 99% reliable, it's not 100%. If things had gone very badly,
and my vehicle had been impounded, it was explained they would
probably hve taken me to a train station. On later demonstrating that
I had insurance, I would have been able to claim costs (train fare
home, and back to collect the bike), but not anything for
inconvenience (which may have been considerable, and perhaps involving
a day off work).
I'm ambivalent about this. As Sgt Galvin explained, the old "producer"
mechanism meant that known scrotes drove around without insurance for
ages before they were eventually taken to court. This new mechanism
gets them off the road immediately. But, it will result in some false
positives, and a lot of inconvenience for those involved. Sgt Galvin
did say that they've not yet had an occurence of actually wrongly
impounding a vehicle, but admitted that it could happen.
If you want to make sure it doesn't happen to you, then carry your
insurances docs with you, or, as an alternative, the name of the
insurer, policy number and renewal date.
--
Champ
ZX10R
GPz750turbo
My advice as your attorney is to buy a motorcycle
Ace
>If you want to make sure it doesn't happen to you, then carry your
>insurances docs with you,
It's compulsory in most parts of Europe anyway, as well as your
license, and I really can't understand why anyone would have an issue
with it.
>or, as an alternative, the name of the
>insurer, policy number and renewal date.
Sounds like more hassle than just carrying the certificate, although I
suppose if you've only just renewed/changed it'd be a good idea.
--
_______
.'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`
Ace
>On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:39:14 +0100, Champ <ne...@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>If you want to make sure it doesn't happen to you, then carry your
>>insurances docs with you,
>
>It's compulsory in most parts of Europe anyway, as well as your
>license, and I really can't understand why anyone would have an issue
>with it.
Bad form and all, but I realised that's not true. The driving licence
is required, yes, but in Suisse (and similar in Germany, IIRC) where
the "licence plate" is state-issued, you don't normally have a
separate insurance certificate. Your insurer is marked on your
registration document, which is in fact a vehicle licence and is also
compulsory to carry, and failure to renew will result in the licence,
and plates, being withdrawn.
Actually makes much more sense, if you think about it.
Champ
>On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:39:14 +0100, Champ <ne...@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>If you want to make sure it doesn't happen to you, then carry your
>>insurances docs with you,
>
>It's compulsory in most parts of Europe anyway, as well as your
>license, and I really can't understand why anyone would have an issue
>with it.
I have 3 vehicles (4 until recently). That's quite a lot of paper to
wedge into one's wallet, which is bulbous enough as it is with all the
other shit (license, countless pieces of plastic, reciepts...oh, and
some money).
wessie
4ax.com:
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:39:14 +0100, Champ <ne...@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>If you want to make sure it doesn't happen to you, then carry your
>>insurances docs with you,
>
> It's compulsory in most parts of Europe anyway, as well as your
> license, and I really can't understand why anyone would have an issue
> with it.
>
>>or, as an alternative, the name of the
>>insurer, policy number and renewal date.
>
> Sounds like more hassle than just carrying the certificate, although I
> suppose if you've only just renewed/changed it'd be a good idea.
>
One of the things I liked about renewing my insurance with Ebike was the
possibility to print off a cover note as soon as the credit card
transaction was complete. This option is also available if I add/change the
bike(s) covered using their web interface.
--
wessie at tesco dot net
BMW R1150GS
Buzby
"Ace" <see...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:mjkf92dn4grcivh1m...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:48:09 +0200, Ace <see...@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:39:14 +0100, Champ <ne...@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>If you want to make sure it doesn't happen to you, then carry your
>>>insurances docs with you,
>>
>>It's compulsory in most parts of Europe anyway, as well as your
>>license, and I really can't understand why anyone would have an issue
>>with it.
>
> Bad form and all, but I realised that's not true. The driving licence
> is required, yes, but in Suisse (and similar in Germany, IIRC) where
> the "licence plate" is state-issued, you don't normally have a
> separate insurance certificate. Your insurer is marked on your
> registration document, which is in fact a vehicle licence and is also
> compulsory to carry, and failure to renew will result in the licence,
> and plates, being withdrawn.
>
> Actually makes much more sense, if you think about it.
It'll never catch on here precisely for that reason.
Ace
>On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:48:09 +0200, Ace <see...@virgin.net> wrote:
>>It's compulsory in most parts of Europe anyway, as well as your
>>license, and I really can't understand why anyone would have an issue
>>with it.
>
>I have 3 vehicles (4 until recently). That's quite a lot of paper to
>wedge into one's wallet, which is bulbous enough as it is with all the
>other shit (license, countless pieces of plastic, reciepts...oh, and
>some money).
It's not very much, really. Just three A5 bits of paper to add to your
collection. I also have to carry passport and Swiss ID card, so I need
a large wallet anyway (heh), but with all that crap it's too big to
fit in eother breast pocket of my leathers; fortunately it's got two
separate bits, so I can have cards+money in one side and documents in
the other.
Bear
> If you want to make sure it doesn't happen to you, then carry your
> insurances docs with you, or, as an alternative, the name of the
> insurer, policy number and renewal date.
"papers please".
--
Bear
Pip
wrote:
>One of the things I liked about renewing my insurance with Ebike was the
>possibility to print off a cover note as soon as the credit card
>transaction was complete. This option is also available if I add/change the
>bike(s) covered using their web interface.
I insured the car with SwiftCover, who are similarly online-only. I
d/l the certificate, reduced it to tiny print size and printed it.
Folded once, it is the size of a credit card but obviously thinner.
I was inspired by an insurer a couple of years ago, who provided a
credit card-sized piece of plastic printed with my insurance details
on one side and recovery service details on the reverse. If only they
all did that.
--
Pip: B12
wessie
news:n7mf92psivgmjairp...@4ax.com:
That was Eagle Star: I remember confusing a clerk in the Post Office
with it. IIRC they stopped doing it after Zenith took them over although
ICBW as they have not provided a competitive quote in many years.
Champ
wrote:
Quite so.
Of course, driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right
(unlike, say, walking down the street). We do need to have a licence,
insurance, etc. I'm not sure how I feel at the moment about having to
demonstrate that immediately when questioned.
steve auvache
>On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:15:18 +0100, Bear <bastard...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:39:14 +0100, Champ said ...
>>
>>> If you want to make sure it doesn't happen to you, then carry your
>>> insurances docs with you, or, as an alternative, the name of the
>>> insurer, policy number and renewal date.
>>
>>"papers please".
>
>Quite so.
>
>Of course, driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right
>(unlike, say, walking down the street).
Walking down the street is only your right if you are going about your
lawful business.
> We do need to have a licence,
>insurance, etc. I'm not sure how I feel at the moment about having to
>demonstrate that immediately when questioned.
I know how I feel.
--
steve auvache
one step closer to The Perfect Date.
muddy
Bear <bastard...@gmail.com> wrote:
We are required to carry proof of insurance and license - or you become
a pedestrian.
--
Mike
DL1000 Combat Touring Special
UKRMMA#22
Bear
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:15:18 +0100, Bear <bastard...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:39:14 +0100, Champ said ...
> >
> >> If you want to make sure it doesn't happen to you, then carry your
> >> insurances docs with you, or, as an alternative, the name of the
> >> insurer, policy number and renewal date.
> >
> >"papers please".
>
> Quite so.
>
> Of course, driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right
> (unlike, say, walking down the street). We do need to have a licence,
> insurance, etc. I'm not sure how I feel at the moment about having to
> demonstrate that immediately when questioned.
I love the way they try to "fix" one issue (the fact that having no
insurance is not heavily punished, nor pursued) by the heavy handed
application of another regime.
--
Bear
Bandit
>
>
It's called operation 'Rustproof' and I work on the contract to collect
& store them in my local city. An average week see's 30-50 cars pulled
off the road in our catchment area with approx 1 in 5 being reclaimed
within the 7 days (1), after 7 days they're scrapped (2). It's been
running for over a year and generally it's working very well.
Locally, the driver 'usually' gets the option of 7 days to reclaim, in
which case if an offence of licence/insurance/MOT has been committed
then they will be reported to CPS for prosecution. If they immediately
disclaim the vehicle then 'usually' they won't be reported. They work it
this way because the more points the scrotes have on their licence the
less likely they are to ever be legal in the future.
In your situation, and should it happen to anyone else, assuming you are
fully legal . . . then ask that you be given a HORT1 producer to present
your documents at a local police station, if you are the registered
keeper this should'nt pose much of a problem, it's the way it's always
traditionally been done. If they deny you this option, contact a
solicitor immediately there at the roadside, if you have no means of
doing this and the Police won't do it on your behalf then insist that
you are arrested ! (3)
Legally, the system is (possibly) full of holes and hasn't been fully
tested by the courts. While they do have the right to seize your vehicle
if an offence has been comitted they haven't neccessarily satisfied the
law that an offence has been committed, to understand this you might
need a solicitor.
I wouldn't let my bike/car be transported off, you can do more damage to
a bike with a ratchet strap than a 50mph slide down the road, when you
point out this damage at the garage when you collect it you will be told
to 'fuck off' sonny. Personally I use a purpose built cradle on my
flatbed for bikes, I had to beg for it and mine is the only vehicle that
carries one, none of my colleagues gives a flying fuck and you'd wince
if you saw what happens to most bikes back at the yard.
(1) That'll be £105 + £12 per day storage please.
(2). The Police insist ALL vehicles are scrapped (crushed not broken for
parts) regardless of value, however one or two have been re-registered.
(3) You're calling their bluff this way, hopefully they will then take
an easier option but if not you now have access to a duty solicitor.
TOG@toil
> I have 3 vehicles (4 until recently). That's quite a lot of paper to
> wedge into one's wallet, which is bulbous enough as it is with all the
> other shit (license, countless pieces of plastic, reciepts...oh, and
> some money).
I have six, and do carry most of the insurance documents, yes, simply
because it makes life easier if one is stopped.
I make space by not carrying any money.
zym...@technologist.com
TOG@toil wrote:
> Champ wrote:
> > Ace wrote:
> >
>
> > I have 3 vehicles (4 until recently). That's quite a lot of paper to
> > wedge into one's wallet, which is bulbous enough as it is with all the
> > other shit (license, countless pieces of plastic, reciepts...oh, and
> > some money).
>
>
> I have six, and do carry most of the insurance documents, yes, simply
> because it makes life easier if one is stopped.
>
HTH :-)
Paul.
prawn
Heh. I think you're going to implode with a self-parody overload.
--
p LotR#9 BotM#1
Higgins@work
Bandit wrote:
> Champ wrote:
<stuff about insurance>
>
> It's called operation 'Rustproof' and I work on the contract to collect
> & store them in my local city. An average week see's 30-50 cars pulled
> off the road in our catchment area with approx 1 in 5 being reclaimed
> within the 7 days (1),
> (1) That'll be £105 + £12 per day storage please.
Who pays that then? The fully insured owner?
--
John
'00 SV650S
Steve Parry
news:k9jf929pvjipc1b18...@4ax.com...
> Regular readers may remember that on the way back from the TOGTours
> Sedan trip, I was stopped by the police on the M20. The main reason
> they stopped me was that they ran a check on my numberplate (having ot
> within about 10 feet of me to read it, because it's so small, ahem),
> and the bike didn't show up on the insurance register. The roadside
> conversation was quite robust, and I was warned that the bike could be
> impounded if I couldn't demonstrate that I was insured. Eventually,
> after I gave them the number plate of another of my bikes, that did
> show up on the register, they let me go with a producer.
>
<snip>
Photocopies of the originals under the seat?
--
Steve Parry
K100RS SE & F650
and a 520i SE Touring for comfort
Cane
> Regular readers may remember that on the way back from the TOGTours
> Sedan trip, I was stopped by the police on the M20.
You should be done for wasting police time.
Martin Coogan
news:4497e1d0$0$22110$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> Champ wrote:
> >
> >
>
>
> It's called operation 'Rustproof' and I work on the contract to collect &
> store them in my local city. An average week see's 30-50 cars pulled off
> the road in our catchment area with approx 1 in 5 being reclaimed within
> the 7 days (1), after 7 days they're scrapped (2). It's been running for
> over a year and generally it's working very well.
>
>
> (2). The Police insist ALL vehicles are scrapped (crushed not broken for
> parts) regardless of value, however one or two have been re-registered.
By who? Nice little earner for someone, or nice and legal with market value
going to the appropriate quarter? Presumably not if all are supposedly
scrapped.
Martin.
antonye
>
> That was Eagle Star: I remember confusing a clerk in the Post Office
> with it. IIRC they stopped doing it after Zenith took them over although
> ICBW as they have not provided a competitive quote in many years.
Yes, it was Eagle Star and a damn good idea. Zurich (spit) took
over ES and went back to A4 pieces of paper.
--
Antony
Champ
You challenging Hog for Most Right Wing UKRMer?
antonye
Exactly. No wonder they don't have time to attend burglaries
when they're off giving nasty bikers a stern talking to.
--
Antony
pe...@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk
In theory I would guess the registered keeper.
Back a while I had to 'sieze' a car with a misfiring alarm. Very
exciting as the local police were not up to speed on the new
legislation and I had to get a fax from the DoE (now DEFRA) to convince
them I had the power to do it.
The Noise and Statutory Nuisance Act is all geared round the registered
keeper *at the time the vehicle is removed*.
The big joke in this case is who the pug 306 turned out to be
registered to - my lips are sealed.
Anyway, the pikeys who don't insure won't be able (or want) to pay for
the storaqe, so that's another probably dodgy motor off the road. Might
also encourage people to properly notify sale of vehicles to DVLA.
As to the 'papers please' aspect. I don't see the problem in this
applying to a vehicle rather than a person. Role on taxing by 'plate'
and insurance disc display say I.
--
Pere Fisher 'out to lunch'
Cane
> >> Regular readers may remember that on the way back from the TOGTours
> >> Sedan trip, I was stopped by the police on the M20.
> >
> >You should be done for wasting police time.
>
> You challenging Hog for Most Right Wing UKRMer?
No, just pointing out that it's middle class, middles aged, Guardian
reading wets like you creating a mountain of police paperwork over a
total non event that prevents the police force effectively tackling
real crime.
Cane
Well he admitted that his number plate was illegal.
antonye
BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!
--
Antony
Cane
Force him to read the Daily Mail!
Bandit
>
>>(2). The Police insist ALL vehicles are scrapped (crushed not broken for
>>parts) regardless of value, however one or two have been re-registered.
>
>
> By who? Nice little earner for someone, or nice and legal with market value
> going to the appropriate quarter? Presumably not if all are supposedly
> scrapped.
>
> Martin.
>
>
By the recovery co' to recover their unpaid costs. Scrap value ATM is
phenomenal, approx £90 for a heavy car, £6 each for alloy wheels (less
tyres), upto £60 for a cat. If the vehicle is worth £1k+ then it makes
sense to re-register it & flog it. We currently have a £10k Audi going
thru this process !
It's a perk of the job, none of us has ever bought petrol or tyres for
our cars, eBay is full of our bumpers, headlights, wing mirrors etc. One
chap I work with has a feedback of over 1000, on a good week our wages
are irrelevant, we'd happily do it for nothing.
Bandit
> Bandit wrote:
>
>>(1) That'll be £105 + £12 per day storage please.
>
>
>
> Who pays that then? The fully insured owner?
>
You pay us to get your wheels released, we don't care where the money
comes from. No money = no vehicle. If the Police have made a mistake you
argue with them after you've paid us, unless you want to keep paying £12
a day for storage while you argue.
Champ
As my original posy says, if the vehicle has been impounded in error,
then the police will pay compensation to cover costs (but not
inconvenience).
Champ
Ooh, ok, you're serious :-)
It's middle-class, middle-aged, Independent-reading wets like me who
ensure that the police don't overstep the mark and we don't end up
living in a police state.
hth.
Champ
No! Not that! Anything but that...
Cane
> >> >> Regular readers may remember that on the way back from the TOGTours
> >> >> Sedan trip, I was stopped by the police on the M20.
> >> >
> >> >You should be done for wasting police time.
> >>
> >> You challenging Hog for Most Right Wing UKRMer?
> >
> >No, just pointing out that it's middle class, middles aged, Guardian
> >reading wets like you creating a mountain of police paperwork over a
> >total non event that prevents the police force effectively tackling
> >real crime.
>
> Ooh, ok, you're serious :-)
Bored ;-)
> It's middle-class, middle-aged, Independent-reading wets like me who
> ensure that the police don't overstep the mark and we don't end up
> living in a police state.
Heh, we read the same paper.
steve auvache
Oh come on man, there are limits.
Besides if he is truly as liberal as you believe he will be reading it
all ready in order to gain a balanced view.
Ace
>antonye wrote:
>> > Well he admitted that his number plate was illegal.
>>
>> BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!
>
>Force him to read the Daily Mail!
I say! Steady on, old chap.
--
_______
.'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`
steve auvache
>On 20 Jun 2006 05:41:40 -0700, "Cane" <Cane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Champ wrote:
>>
>>> >> Regular readers may remember that on the way back from the TOGTours
>>> >> Sedan trip, I was stopped by the police on the M20.
>>> >
>>> >You should be done for wasting police time.
>>>
>>> You challenging Hog for Most Right Wing UKRMer?
>>
>>No, just pointing out that it's middle class, middles aged, Guardian
>>reading wets like you creating a mountain of police paperwork over a
>>total non event that prevents the police force effectively tackling
>>real crime.
>
>Ooh, ok, you're serious :-)
>
>It's middle-class, middle-aged, Independent-reading wets like me who
>ensure that the police don't overstep the mark and we don't end up
>living in a police state.
Actually it isn't. The independant-reading wets like you are our
biggest threat. If you need to know who best represents our chances of
continuing to live freely it is us Radio 4 listeners.
Martin Coogan
OK, so the re-registering and selling on is done by the recovery co. "to
defray costs." Surely if the police insist all seized vehicles are scrapped,
then this can't be above board? Why not set their rates properly in the
first place, knowing the current salvage market?
As to the "perks", I used to work in motor insurance :(
The dodginess of some people involved therein and salvage dealers,
kickbacks, re-registering stolen / recovered undamaged cars and paying fuck
all for them etc. used to make me sick. Usually people who were extremely
well paid too. Dirty thieving fuckers.
No offence to you like - some might call it thieving though.
Martin.
Champ
I listen to Radio 4 as well as reading the Independent. Sometimes at
the same time.
Paul Carmichael
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:39:14 +0100, Champ <ne...@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>If you want to make sure it doesn't happen to you, then carry your
>>insurances docs with you,
>
>
> It's compulsory in most parts of Europe anyway, as well as your
> license, and I really can't understand why anyone would have an issue
> with it.
>
>
>>or, as an alternative, the name of the
>>insurer, policy number and renewal date.
>
>
> Sounds like more hassle than just carrying the certificate, although I
> suppose if you've only just renewed/changed it'd be a good idea.
>
Here (in spain) you have to carry proof of payment for your insurance,
as well as the certificate.
--
Paul.
CBR1100XX SuperBlackbird
BOTAFOT #4
BOTAFOF #30
MRO #24
OMF #15
UKRMMA #30
Buy this house: http://personales.ya.com/wibbleypants/main.htm
This will be ready soon:
http://personales.ya.com/wibbleypants/bb_in_andalucia_spain.htm
steve auvache
I can see the panic setting in all ready.
You read the Independent, you will be first against the wall. No amount
of mitigation will be accepted.
Paul Carmichael
> As my original posy says
Cute.
Bandit
>
> OK, so the re-registering and selling on is done by the recovery co. "to
> defray costs." Surely if the police insist all seized vehicles are scrapped,
> then this can't be above board? Why not set their rates properly in the
> first place, knowing the current salvage market?
A well staffed & equipped recovery co' is not financially viable at the
current set rates. That's why the insurance co's are presented with
bills of upto £1500 to recover a comprehensively insured RTA, extra man,
Hiab, granules, clean up etc.
On Rustproof the set rate is £105 for the recovery and £12pd storage, we
average 1 in 5 cars being reclaimed, if the rates were set 'properly'
then that 1 car has to pay for the other 4. £500 to reclaim your car?
Dial in the fact that a lot of the owners are walking away from the cars
because they aren't £worth paying the fee's and you're looking at
possibly moving the figures to 1 in 8 not reclaiming, £800 to reclaim
your car?
A spiralling circle of 'properly' set rates !
>
> As to the "perks", I used to work in motor insurance :(
>
> The dodginess of some people involved therein and salvage dealers,
> kickbacks, re-registering stolen / recovered undamaged cars and paying fuck
> all for them etc. used to make me sick. Usually people who were extremely
> well paid too. Dirty thieving fuckers.
All of which is allowed to happen by the insurance co's themselve's.
>
> No offence to you like - some might call it thieving though.
>
> Martin.
>
Why should I be offended, I don't work in the insurance business !
steve auvache
>Champ wrote:
>>
>>
>
>
>It's called operation 'Rustproof' and I work on the contract to collect
>Locally, the driver 'usually' gets the option of 7 days to reclaim, in
>which case if an offence of licence/insurance/MOT has been committed
>then they will be reported to CPS for prosecution. If they immediately
>disclaim the vehicle then 'usually' they won't be reported. They work it
>this way because the more points the scrotes have on their licence the
>less likely they are to ever be legal in the future.
My old mate Pikey Maffewes used to run a neat little scam with that one.
He used to go round on day 6 and lift them off the street and take them
straight to the crusher. Nice and unofficial like and as a percentage
of the wrecks were dealt with by their owners on day one anyway, the
blokes with the council contract were none the wiser.
Martin Coogan
> Martin Coogan wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, so the re-registering and selling on is done by the recovery co. "to
>> defray costs." Surely if the police insist all seized vehicles are
>> scrapped, then this can't be above board? Why not set their rates
>> properly in the first place, knowing the current salvage market?
>
> A well staffed & equipped recovery co' is not financially viable at the
> current set rates. That's why the insurance co's are presented with bills
> of upto £1500 to recover a comprehensively insured RTA, extra man, Hiab,
> granules, clean up etc.
> On Rustproof the set rate is £105 for the recovery and £12pd storage, we
> average 1 in 5 cars being reclaimed, if the rates were set 'properly' then
> that 1 car has to pay for the other 4. £500 to reclaim your car?
> Dial in the fact that a lot of the owners are walking away from the cars
> because they aren't £worth paying the fee's and you're looking at possibly
> moving the figures to 1 in 8 not reclaiming, £800 to reclaim your car?
>
> A spiralling circle of 'properly' set rates !
It's a difficult business to be profitable in, I'm sure. I think there'd be
a stink if these supposedly seized and destroyed vehicles started popping up
for sale, which they apparently are, despite the supposed police policy of
total destruction. We're not too far from a dodgy police officer seeing a
car he fancies, doing his utmost to nick the driver and doing a deal with
the recovery company. Of course that would never happen...
>
>>
>> As to the "perks", I used to work in motor insurance :(
>>
>> The dodginess of some people involved therein and salvage dealers,
>> kickbacks, re-registering stolen / recovered undamaged cars and paying
>> fuck all for them etc. used to make me sick. Usually people who were
>> extremely well paid too. Dirty thieving fuckers.
> All of which is allowed to happen by the insurance co's themselve's.
Some of them probably, but not on the scale it used to happen I'm sure. Too
many accountants nowadays asking "well how much did we get for that piece of
salvage?" And the police are allowing it to happen now as well, from what
you have said.
>> No offence to you like - some might call it thieving though.
> Why should I be offended, I don't work in the insurance business !
Good point. You and your colleagues /are/ making serious money privately
from nicking stuff though, aren't you? :)
Technically anyway - I'm sure the company you work for doesn't explicitly
say you are allowed to do it.
If the bits would otherwise be crushed, I suppose you are performing a
public service by recycling, and will in due course receive an O.B.E.
Just yanking your chain really, dunno what I would do to sort it out, but
it's not at all ideal, is it? I can see that crushing a valuable vehicle is
just stupidly wasteful, yet that's what we are supposed to believe happens
in theory.
Martin.
Bandit
>
> Some of them probably, but not on the scale it used to happen I'm sure. Too
> many accountants nowadays asking "well how much did we get for that piece of
> salvage?" And the police are allowing it to happen now as well, from what
> you have said.
>
The Police want every vehicle scrapped to stop the circle of low value
cars being put back on the road so uninsured/unlicenced drivers can't
buy them cheaply then walk away from them when they're pulled over. The
recovery contracts for rustproof are specifically vague where 'disposal'
of the vehicles is mentioned. It would not be in anyones interests to
put a £200 banger back on the road as much as it would not be in anyones
interests to crush a £10k Audi.
>
>>>No offence to you like - some might call it thieving though.
>
>
>>Why should I be offended, I don't work in the insurance business !
>
>
> Good point. You and your colleagues /are/ making serious money privately
> from nicking stuff though, aren't you? :)
>
> Technically anyway - I'm sure the company you work for doesn't explicitly
> say you are allowed to do it.
Where do you get 'nicking' from? If the car isn't reclaimed or it's
disclaimed it becomes the property of the recovery co'. My boss allows
us to strip bits because if the owner isn't paying then he wants the
scrap value, that means light stuff like bumpers, lights etc are OK to
remove, engines are not. This is treated pretty much like a £bonus for
us. I'd imagine that if the boss wanted the revenue from the bits we
strip he'd employ someone to strip & sell them, thus cancelling out any
money he thought he might make.
>
> If the bits would otherwise be crushed, I suppose you are performing a
> public service by recycling, and will in due course receive an O.B.E.
>
> Just yanking your chain really, dunno what I would do to sort it out, but
> it's not at all ideal, is it? I can see that crushing a valuable vehicle is
> just stupidly wasteful, yet that's what we are supposed to believe happens
> in theory.
>
> Martin.
>
It happens for the press so they can report it, locally an 04 Focus was
ceremoniously crushed for the photo opportunity.
Kevin Weller
> One of the things I liked about renewing my insurance with Ebike was the
> possibility to print off a cover note as soon as the credit card
> transaction was complete. This option is also available if I add/change the
> bike(s) covered using their web interface.
That's true for a new policy but I'm pretty sure you can't print a revised
cover note when the policy is amended.
--
Kevin
wessie
news:VA.0000007...@nospam.invalid:
If I go to the Ebike "your account" section I can print off a cover note
without making any alterations: 3 weeks after taking out the policy. My
assumption is that the facility would still be there if I altered bike
details (IIRC someone told me they had done this either in the oub or on
another forum).
--
wessie at tesco dot net
BMW R1150GS
DoetNietComputeren
> I insured the car with SwiftCover, who are similarly online-only. I
> d/l the certificate, reduced it to tiny print size and printed it.
> Folded once, it is the size of a credit card but obviously thinner.
> I was inspired by an insurer a couple of years ago, who provided a
> credit card-sized piece of plastic printed with my insurance details
> on one side and recovery service details on the reverse. If only they
> all did that.
Oh good plan. I'll recommend that as a gap in the market to our
applications marketing team. Thanks.
--
Dnc
B1200 - +30bhp ~|~ ZZR1100 - faster when upright
V2300 - flat cap and rug ~|~ A6 2.5TDi V6 Quattro Sport
MIB#26 two#54(soiled) UKRMMA#26 BOTAFOT#153 X-FOT#003
Kevin Weller
> If I go to the Ebike "your account" section I can print off a cover note
> without making any alterations: 3 weeks after taking out the policy. My
> assumption is that the facility would still be there if I altered bike
> details (IIRC someone told me they had done this either in the oub or on
> another forum).
From the eBike FAQ:
'I have just made some mid-term adjustments to my policy but I can't seem
to print out a new cover note online-why?
The online cover facility is currently only available on a new policy. '
I too could print out a cover note when I first took out the policy but
once I'd made changes I couldn't. That's a pity as if I could I'd then know
I'd have a copy of the cover note ready for when I pick the bike up
tomorrow rather than hoping the person I spoke to in eBike remembers that
he promised to email it to me tomorrow.
--
Kevin
Martin Coogan
> Martin Coogan wrote:
>
>>
>> Some of them probably, but not on the scale it used to happen I'm sure.
>> Too many accountants nowadays asking "well how much did we get for that
>> piece of salvage?" And the police are allowing it to happen now as well,
>> from what you have said.
>>
>
> The Police want every vehicle scrapped to stop the circle of low value
> cars being put back on the road so uninsured/unlicenced drivers can't buy
> them cheaply then walk away from them when they're pulled over. The
> recovery contracts for rustproof are specifically vague where 'disposal'
> of the vehicles is mentioned. It would not be in anyones interests to put
> a £200 banger back on the road as much as it would not be in anyones
> interests to crush a £10k Audi.
Quite. But it sounds like we're reliant on the recovery companies for that
decision rather than the police, who have to account for their actions. So
at a guess there /may/ be borderline cars that are going back into
circulation - at least there's nothing to stop that happening, from what I
understand from your posts.
>>>>No offence to you like - some might call it thieving though.
>>
>>
>>>Why should I be offended, I don't work in the insurance business !
>>
>>
>> Good point. You and your colleagues /are/ making serious money privately
>> from nicking stuff though, aren't you? :)
>>
>> Technically anyway - I'm sure the company you work for doesn't explicitly
>> say you are allowed to do it.
>
> Where do you get 'nicking' from? If the car isn't reclaimed or it's
> disclaimed it becomes the property of the recovery co'. My boss allows us
> to strip bits because if the owner isn't paying then he wants the scrap
> value, that means light stuff like bumpers, lights etc are OK to remove,
> engines are not. This is treated pretty much like a £bonus for us. I'd
> imagine that if the boss wanted the revenue from the bits we strip he'd
> employ someone to strip & sell them, thus cancelling out any money he
> thought he might make.
Fairy Nuff, they do explicitly allow it, so I take back "nicking" and
apologise :)
>> If the bits would otherwise be crushed, I suppose you are performing a
>> public service by recycling, and will in due course receive an O.B.E.
>>
>> Just yanking your chain really, dunno what I would do to sort it out, but
>> it's not at all ideal, is it? I can see that crushing a valuable vehicle
>> is just stupidly wasteful, yet that's what we are supposed to believe
>> happens in theory.
> It happens for the press so they can report it, locally an 04 Focus was
> ceremoniously crushed for the photo opportunity.
Hmmm. Presumably it was a banger; if not, why would they crush a saleable
car?
I looked at the regulations, which appear to say the owner gets the proceeds
of the disposal, less the charges. Bit tricky if it's crushed!
Anyway, thanks for the info, it was interesting.
Martin.
Pip
<doesnotcompu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Pip wrote:
>> I was inspired by an insurer a couple of years ago, who provided a
>> credit card-sized piece of plastic printed with my insurance details
>> on one side and recovery service details on the reverse. If only they
>> all did that.
>Oh good plan. I'll recommend that as a gap in the market to our
>applications marketing team. Thanks.
Please feel free to take all credit/brickbats forthcoming ;-)
--
Pip: B12
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember Ace <see...@virgin.net> saying
something like:
>>It's compulsory in most parts of Europe anyway, as well as your
>>license, and I really can't understand why anyone would have an issue
>>with it.
>
>Bad form and all, but I realised that's not true. The driving licence
>is required, yes, but in Suisse (and similar in Germany, IIRC) where
>the "licence plate" is state-issued, you don't normally have a
>separate insurance certificate. Your insurer is marked on your
>registration document, which is in fact a vehicle licence and is also
>compulsory to carry, and failure to renew will result in the licence,
>and plates, being withdrawn.
A couple of years ago compulsory licence carrying was introduced in
Ireland. So far it's not caused me any problems - if I don't happen to
have it with me I just nip down the local cop shop with it and the name
of the requesting officer. Just like a Horti system without the Horti,
iyswim.
Insurance discs are displayed on the windscreen alongside the tax disc
and are quite easily readable with the expiry date in large digits. NCT
(MoT equivalent) disc likewise.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a
In my trousers.
Folding@Home Team UKRM http://www.tinyurl.com/jkxwv
Grimly Curmudgeon
<Spam...@nospam.invalid> saying something like:
>I too could print out a cover note when I first took out the policy but
>once I'd made changes I couldn't. That's a pity as if I could I'd then know
>I'd have a copy of the cover note ready for when I pick the bike up
>tomorrow rather than hoping the person I spoke to in eBike remembers that
>he promised to email it to me tomorrow.
Nothing to stop you modifying it yourself before print-out if you have
the original file captured. Or just scan and modify the original. It's
not as if you're trying it on - it's got the new true facts on it.
SP
> Regular readers may remember that on the way back from the TOGTours
> Sedan trip, I was stopped by the police on the M20. The main reason
> they stopped me was that they ran a check on my numberplate (having ot
> within about 10 feet of me to read it, because it's so small, ahem),
> and the bike didn't show up on the insurance register. The roadside
> conversation was quite robust, and I was warned that the bike could be
> impounded if I couldn't demonstrate that I was insured. Eventually,
> after I gave them the number plate of another of my bikes, that did
> show up on the register, they let me go with a producer.
>
<Snipperooney>
The idea of carrying your docs with you is a good one, to prove you are
insured.
*BUT* should your insurance be renewed automagically (unless you change
insurers), and your tax is due at the same time, and the DVLA tell you
that you cannot tax online because you aren't insured, but you don't
physically receive the docs until a week later.... <GGGRRR>
--
Lesley
CBR600FW
SBS#11 (with oak-leaf cluster)
BOTAFOT#101A UKRMHRC#12
BONY#54P BOB#18
Real burds don't take hormones, they rage naturally
The Older Gentleman
> TOG@toil wrote:
> > Champ wrote:
> > > Ace wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > I have 3 vehicles (4 until recently). That's quite a lot of paper to
> > > wedge into one's wallet, which is bulbous enough as it is with all the
> > > other shit (license, countless pieces of plastic, reciepts...oh, and
> > > some money).
> >
> >
> > I have six, and do carry most of the insurance documents, yes, simply
> > because it makes life easier if one is stopped.
> >
> > I make space by not carrying any money to the bar.
>
> HTH :-)
>
Editing posts is not big and not clever. I've stopped the cheque that is
winging its way towards you ;-)
--
Trophy 1200 750SS CB400F CD250 Morini 500 Sport
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
ginge
The Older Gentleman says...
> <zym...@technologist.com> wrote:
>
> > TOG@toil wrote:
> > > Champ wrote:
> > > > Ace wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I have 3 vehicles (4 until recently). That's quite a lot of paper to
> > > > wedge into one's wallet, which is bulbous enough as it is with all the
> > > > other shit (license, countless pieces of plastic, reciepts...oh, and
> > > > some money).
> > >
> > >
> > > I have six, and do carry most of the insurance documents, yes, simply
> > > because it makes life easier if one is stopped.
> > >
> > > I make space by not carrying any money to the bar.
> >
> > HTH :-)
> >
> Editing posts is not big and not clever. I've stopped the cheque that is
> winging its way towards you ;-)
And yet you still aren't going to the bar, even after the sudden
windfall.
ogden
>
> I'm ambivalent about this. As Sgt Galvin explained, the old "producer"
> mechanism meant that known scrotes drove around without insurance for
> ages before they were eventually taken to court. This new mechanism
> gets them off the road immediately. But, it will result in some false
> positives, and a lot of inconvenience for those involved. Sgt Galvin
> did say that they've not yet had an occurence of actually wrongly
> impounding a vehicle, but admitted that it could happen.
>
> If you want to make sure it doesn't happen to you, then carry your
> insurer, policy number and renewal date.
That may not help. I spent 6 months riding round with the wrong reg
number on my insurance docs (with a car and bike both on P-reg plates, I
mistakenly gave the car reg when sorting out the bike insurance). It
only came to light when I had to take my paperwork down to the local cop
shop with a producer, and I damn-near shat myself when the dibble behind
the counter refused to accept it.
Luckily only a 10 quid admin charge for amending the documents, and they
sent out new paperwork with the same cover (and dates) but the right
reg. But would have had interesting results if I'd been stood at the
side of the road in the same situation as you.
--
ogden