Surveillance...TV prog.
Mick Whittingham
communication, be it phone, telex, fax or email.
They even mentioned the two big NO NO words.
E-c_h-e_l-o_n and B-u_r-n_i-n_g b-u_s-h.
I'll have to go, some one is knocking at the front door.................
--
Mick Whittingham
'and I will make it a felony to drink small beer.'
William Shakespeare, Henry VI part 2.
Eddie Deguello
>
> Anyone see that programme on how big brother monitors *every* bit of
> communication, be it phone, telex, fax or email.
No, but anyway...
> They even mentioned the two big NO NO words.
> E-c_h-e_l-o_n and B-u_r-n_i-n_g b-u_s-h.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Just what, exactly, is the problem with that word? We use something that
goes by that name for some low-level hardware communication stuff[1].
Are they going to start confiscating our source code?
(And while you're at it: what's with the other words as well?)
> I'll have to go, some one is knocking at the front
> door.................
Have a look out the window - if there's a Big Black Helicopter parked on
your lawn, then you're *really* in trouble...
[1] Or something like that... I do software, not hardware.
--
Eddie mailto:ed...@deguello.demon.co.uk
VFR800 ICQ#37423335
GPz550 (For sale/breaking) KotWGW(hon,rtd) TTotM(04/99)
"You're pretty uptight, for a naked chick"
darsy
<ed...@deguello.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>(And while you're at it: what's with the other words as well?)
If you really don't know, see:
http://home.icdc.com/~paulwolf/
Err, what's tha**NO CARRIER**
Eddie Deguello
Ah, I see. Or rather, *they* see. Everything.
I'll have a proper look later, but I didn't see anything about B******
B***.
What's that? A ride in your car, you say? Well, alright, but...
<fx: muffled thuds>
darsy
<ed...@deguello.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Ah, I see. Or rather, *they* see. Everything.
Of course, if you really want to get into the conspiracy thing, you'll
believe the whole Echelon thing and all it's exposers (Hagar et al)
and the EU report are all part of a larger conspiracy that only three
or four people know about.
--
darsy TCP#0.FF#1.SSC#1.VBC#3 SZR660 ex-GSF1200Nx TheVoiceOfReason
Simon Robbins
Great... what chance does freedom and democracy really have when faced with
that. I guess the greater question is, is whether or not it's better to live
in ignorance of the things our governments will do to "protect" us.
Si.
dog
> >Ah, I see. Or rather, *they* see. Everything.
>
> Of course, if you really want to get into the conspiracy thing, you'll
> believe the whole Echelon thing and all it's exposers (Hagar et al)
> and the EU report are all part of a larger conspiracy that only three
> or four people know about.
and, of course, those 3 or 4 people are all part of a larger conspiracy that
only 0.375 people know about, and so forth.
--
dog
zx7r-p4 bmf#10572 nt#270825982g
"si on monte là-dessus, on se tue!" "génial!"
darsy
>sculpsit darsy:
>> >Ah, I see. Or rather, *they* see. Everything.
>>
>> Of course, if you really want to get into the conspiracy thing, you'll
>> believe the whole Echelon thing and all it's exposers (Hagar et al)
>> and the EU report are all part of a larger conspiracy that only three
>> or four people know about.
>
>and, of course, those 3 or 4 people are all part of a larger conspiracy that
>only 0.375 people know about, and so forth.
...and eventually you end up with the entire conceptual noosphere as a
figment in the imagination of an 5 year-old autistic child living in
22nd century Burma.
Of have I had too much coffee today?
Richard Smith
Heh. You actually think that's coffee?
--
Richard Smith GSX550ES "The Ould Sod" DIAABTCOD#2
Simon Robbins
darsy wrote in message <8f00as43btkbap6bs...@4ax.com>...
>If you really don't know, see:
>
>http://home.icdc.com/~paulwolf/
>
One more point of paranoia. It appears that shortly after deterimining that
the NSA needed to be held accountable for it's intelligence gathering in
Europe the entire European Government (Bangermann, et al) are removed from
office...
Si.
Mick Whittingham
<ed...@deguello.demon.co.uk> writes
>darsy wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:22:10 +0000, Eddie Deguello
>> <ed...@deguello.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >(And while you're at it: what's with the other words as well?)
>>
>
>
>B***.
>
the world, all talking to each other in one big net. It is in England at
a place called g-C_h-Q. It's sole use is to spy on us, they say it's for
all coms traffic but primarily us. Every major telephone exchange in the
UK is wired to it via a place called:
'T_h-E h_O-L_e i-N t-H_e G-r_O-u_N-d'
an underground BT establishment in the middle of London. Any BT guy hear
*could* confirm that.
Mark Kelsall
>
> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:52:54 +0000, Mick Whittingham
> <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Anyone see that programme on how big brother monitors *every* bit of
> >communication, be it phone, telex, fax or email.
> >
> >E-c_h-e_l-o_n and B-u_r-n_i-n_g b-u_s-h.
> >
>
> manage to divert every single internet packet in the UK via Menwith
> Hill *and* process every single one of them looking for mentions of
> Echelon and the like?
There are so many point that you can tap into internet traffic... When
the ATM voice over IP thingy gets going.. it will be easier. :(
--
Mark...
Bandit 600 (Not binned ... yet!)
Mark Kelsall
> B888888 B888 it the largest collection of Amdahl Crays (sp) anywhere in
> the world, all talking to each other in one big net. It is in England at
> a place called g-C_h-Q. It's sole use is to spy on us, they say it's for
> all coms traffic but primarily us. Every major telephone exchange in the
> UK is wired to it via a place called:
> 'T_h-E h_O-L_e i-N t-H_e G-r_O-u_N-d'
> an underground BT establishment in the middle of London. Any BT guy hear
> *could* confirm that.
<Ericsson guy mode>
I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.....
</Ericsson guy mode>
Mick Whittingham
<docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:52:54 +0000, Mick Whittingham
><Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Anyone see that programme on how big brother monitors *every* bit of
>>communication, be it phone, telex, fax or email.
>>
>>They even mentioned the two big NO NO words.
>>E-c_h-e_l-o_n and B-u_r-n_i-n_g b-u_s-h.
>>
>>I'll have to go, some one is knocking at the front door.................
>
>Okay. MI5 can't even get their website to work right, and somehow they
>manage to divert every single internet packet in the UK via Menwith
>Hill *and* process every single one of them looking for mentions of
>Echelon and the like?
Every communication, by radio (Mendwith and G-C-H-Q) or wire (Bt's Hole
in the ground and G-C-H-Q) between major cities and / or centres of
'technical excellence', be it to each other and or out of this country
are monitored.
Antony Espindola
>
> Anyone see that programme on how big brother
> monitors *every* bit of communication, be it
> phone, telex, fax or email.
...and the US only relaxed it's encryption
laws because the NSA can now crack 128bits in
realtime?
You've been watching too much Matrix, old boy.
--
Antony. Far Up! Far Out! Far More!
RVF400RR :-) Nobody Does it Better
----------------------------------------------------------
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather,
than screaming in terror like his passengers.- Jim Harkins
----------------------------------------------------------
-----------> http://www.Horrible.Demon.co.uk/ <-----------
Alan W. Frame
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:44:10 +0000, docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk
> (Doc Gonz0) wrote:
>
> >They may be diverted, but monitored? By whom?
[]
> I had no idea how low my figures were. The London Internet Exchange
> (www.linx.org) handles an average of 300M/*sec* - that's 25
> tera-fucking-bytes per day of internet traffic *alone* in the UK. And
> this excludes intra-ISP movements (mail to someone on the same ISP)
> and the traffic which travels through Manchester and the
> AOL/Compuserve/Netscape On-Line backbones. So. Who wants to start
> sifting through that lot?
So, hiding my messages to the effect that "the dying swan has returned
her library book" PGP-encyypted the header of what claims to be a bad
pic of a chrome-encrusted Harley in alt.binaries.picture.motorcycles is
unlikely do be detected?
Hail Eris!
--
99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 85 Guzzi V65TT, 74 MV Agusta 350
"Evqr gb klmml, klmml gb Evqr" SI # 7.067 DoD#1930
Next World Superbike: April 2, South Africa, Kyalami.
Next Bike Grand Prix: March19, South Africa, Welkom.
Alan W. Frame
[]
> RSA encryption is, apparently, easily crackable - a 16 year old Irish
> schoolgirl (!) managed to find a hole in the algorithm. It still takes
> a *shitload* of processor time, but a *lot* less than it did with
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> brute-force methods.
Apropos of nothing, SETI@Home[0] seems to be doing about 11-12
teraFLOPs/sec or >1000 years of CPU time, *every day*, ATM...
rgds, Alan
[0] <http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/totals.html>
--
99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 85 Guzzi V65TT, 74 MV Agusta 350
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI # 7.067 DoD#1930
Mark Kelsall
>
SNIP
>
> Tapping is one thing - anyone with a sniffer can do it. But
> interpreting it? In real time? Come on now, there are intelligent
> people here, with actual knowledge of networking and computers. Surely
> I can't be the only one to see the absurdity of the idea?
A TCP/IP driven ATM router has to look at every packet (no networking
manual at hand.. :( someone's nicked it. :o(( ) and with some of the kit
we are testing out... it's no big deal.. It does take processing
power... lots... and lots.. (Mmmmmm AXD 301...) If you know what sort of
thing you want to listen for and where.. it's easy. :):):)
Distribute the load over a lot of switches/routers ect.. it's no
problem.
Mark Kelsall
>
> RSA encryption is, apparently, easily crackable - a 16 year old Irish
> schoolgirl (!) managed to find a hole in the algorithm. It still takes
> a *shitload* of processor time, but a *lot* less than it did with
> brute-force methods. But it's all a bunch of arse. The government (US
> or UK) can't find their arses with both hands and a map, and they're
> meant to be capable of this?
The best sort.. is the sort you write yourself. Nice new algorithm for
tunnelled IP anyone. ;)
Bastard Bear
>
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:20:20 +0000, Antony Espindola
> <Ant...@Netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >Mick Whittingham wrote:
> >>
> >> Anyone see that programme on how big brother
> >> monitors *every* bit of communication, be it
> >> phone, telex, fax or email.
> >
> >...and the US only relaxed it's encryption
> >laws because the NSA can now crack 128bits in
> >realtime?
> >
> >You've been watching too much Matrix, old boy.
>
> schoolgirl (!) managed to find a hole in the algorithm. It still takes
> a *shitload* of processor time, but a *lot* less than it did with
> brute-force methods. But it's all a bunch of arse. The government (US
> or UK) can't find their arses with both hands and a map, and they're
> meant to be capable of this?
You're failing to take into account the "infinite monkeys" approach.
They may not be smart, but by f*ck do they have some resources [1]
[1] Er ... not that I know [2]
[2] I have never had anything to do with the NSA [3]
[3] Especially not my step-brother [4]
[4] Oh bollox! oh well; might as well send some family greetings since
they'll all be listening now ... hi Rick! hope you're doing well ...
--
Bastard Bear
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Bears
TART#1 UKRMHRC#8 GHPOTHUF#4 HB#2 TCP#1a DIAABTCOD#4 ZX-9R
"This week, I are been mostly Giving It Rhubarb"
Simon Robbins
Doc Gonz0 <docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:84p0asohahng43cll...@4ax.com...
> >
> Oh, don't be so gullible...
Oh, come on. It's much more fun than being cynical! That way I can blame all
the world's ills on "them"!
Si.
Eddie
>
> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 22:18:00 +0000, alan....@acm.org (Alan W. Frame)
> wrote:
>
> >Apropos of nothing, SETI@Home[0] seems to be doing about 11-12
> >teraFLOPs/sec or >1000 years of CPU time, *every day*, ATM...
>
Something in the order of 1.6 million, IIRC.
Although how many of those are *active* is another thing altogether...
--
Eddie a.k.a. Mr. Happy mailto:ed...@deguello.demon.co.uk
VFR800 ICQ#37423335
GPz550 (For sale/breaking) KotWGW(hon,rtd) TTotM(04/99)
"Excuse me for being ignorant"
darsy
<Richar...@cs.com> wrote:
>darsy wrote in message <9oi0as4on2vo0tfgb...@4ax.com>...
>>Of have I had too much coffee today?
>
>Heh. You actually think that's coffee?
Look, I've told you before - the world really *does* revolve around
me.
darsy
(Doc Gonz0) wrote:
>I had no idea how low my figures were. The London Internet Exchange
>(www.linx.org) handles an average of 300M/*sec* - that's 25
>tera-fucking-bytes per day of internet traffic *alone* in the UK. And
>this excludes intra-ISP movements (mail to someone on the same ISP)
>and the traffic which travels through Manchester and the
>AOL/Compuserve/Netscape On-Line backbones. So. Who wants to start
>sifting through that lot?
The Illuminati.
Doh!
Neal Champion
>Anyone see that programme on how big brother monitors *every* bit of
>communication, be it phone, telex, fax or email.
>
>They even mentioned the two big NO NO words.
>E-c_h-e_l-o_n and B-u_r-n_i-n_g b-u_s-h.
>
>I'll have to go, some one is knocking at the front door.................
So, if I embed "Echelon" & "Burning bush" in the sig of all my emails,
will that annoy them?
Champ
--
Kawasaki ZX9RC2, H1B (in bits), Marin Rocky Ridge, Burton Custom 60 & SuperModel 74, Jackson Soloist
...but surely I'm more than a list of consumer durables!
Vanity Publishing at www.champ.org.uk BOF#2 (ass.)
Mick Whittingham
<docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:28:09 +0000, Mick Whittingham
><Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In article <qro0asga3g1a878oo...@4ax.com>, Doc Gonz0
>><docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>>On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:52:54 +0000, Mick Whittingham
>>>
>
>They may be diverted, but monitored? By whom? There are, IIRC, 75
>million phone lines in this country. I'd guesstimate 10 calls from
>each line per day, of 2 minutes average length. Assuming that 25% of
>them are data (fax or modem) with an average bandwidth of 30kbps, and
>the rest voice calls at about 10kbps (Note that these numbers are
>almost certainly *way* low, and don't encompass leased line and
>satellite data uplinks, which are probably twice as big again as the
>phone system). So, that's (quick and probably wildly inaccurate
>calculation) 850 gigabytes of raw data *per day*.
Yup plus some. But only from major cities and centres of technical
excellence between each other and in and out of the country.
>
>Anyone care to calculate exactly how much processing power it would
>take to monitor that in real-time (excluding the time needed to decode
>fax and modem communications) for a list of keywords?
I think currently at GC they have 24(?) Amdahl Crays working on it each
with tetra bytes of temporary storage.
>And then the
>amount of manpower required to check the leads that the system throws
>up?
The selection would have to be greatly automated and or selective in
area or topic I would think. But no problem with man power they have a
vast group of people in the UK and the US that is used.
>Even if it were possible to do (which I sincerely doubt), how much
>money would it cost?
The UK budget is *vast* plus there is a huge input from the US of A for
use of the equipment and data. Until you have seen these places they
exist only in James Bond films. An insight occurs when the
decommissioned building comes up for sale.
e.g..: The one in Ash in Kent is an eye opener:
Single story flat roofed temporary building, has RAF on the front
entrance. If you enter the building and have a conducted tour you would
not realise that the door to one room is to the lift section and 40
subterranean floors all with very thick floors between them. i.e. I'm
talking a St Paul Cathedral underground with only the top 10 feet
sticking out.
Or look out for:
Or Rootham Hill Kent which *must* be hollow (I saw what came out) with
it's transmitter on top not on a map. Or the hole in the ground with
village on top with the big dishes not shown on a map next to Hucking
(one of the most abused road signs in Kent).
Blean Kent, so how do they get over a hundred staff into a little hut
next to the big mast. And why if a light aircraft tries to land at the
adjacent private strip outside the permitted times does it fall out of
the sky with electical failure.
Between the A290 and 291 north of Tyler hill does a national power grid
have to go to a small brick building in the middle of a field that a
*lot* of people disappear into when a local farmer digs up the comms
lines to it.
Or the tunnel on the new part of the A229 that has no reason with huge
doors half way down it and kilowatts of power available from the
national grid.
Just Mick being observant.
Oh sh*t there goes the door again.
Mick Whittingham
<docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:20:20 +0000, Antony Espindola
><Ant...@Netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>Mick Whittingham wrote:
>>>
>>
>>You've been watching too much Matrix, old boy.
Did like the bird in the tight cat suite Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
>
>RSA encryption is, apparently, easily crackable - a 16 year old Irish
>schoolgirl (!) managed to find a hole in the algorithm. It still takes
>a *shitload* of processor time, but a *lot* less than it did with
>brute-force methods.
They use brute-force with a shit load of processing capability.
>But it's all a bunch of arse. The government (US
>or UK) can't find their arses with both hands and a map,
True.
>and they're
>meant to be capable of this?
They don't, they get clever people from industry to do the clever bits
for them. They in turn charge them shit loads of money which we all
provide.
Richard Smith
>On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 17:21:37 -0000, "Richard Smith"
><Richar...@cs.com> wrote:
>
>>darsy wrote in message <9oi0as4on2vo0tfgb...@4ax.com>...
>
>>>Of have I had too much coffee today?
>>
>>Heh. You actually think that's coffee?
>
>Look, I've told you before - the world really *does* revolve around
>me.
Diet not going too well then? "Darsy the Barycentre" :o)
Bastard Bear
SNIP
> I think currently at GC they have 24(?) Amdahl Crays working on it each
> with tetra bytes of temporary storage.
^^^^^
They keep tropical fish?
... in their underpants?
drury@schema.freeserve.co.uk Phil Drury
Mick Whittingham <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:OjrdfJAe...@mjwc.demon.co.uk...
> Did like the bird in the tight cat suite Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Furniture for sozzled pets being used by our feathered friends ?
Phil D
Mick Whittingham
<champ...@totalise.co.uk> writes
>Mick Whittingham <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> did tap out :
>
>>Anyone see that programme on how big brother monitors *every* bit of
>>communication, be it phone, telex, fax or email.
>>
>>They even mentioned the two big NO NO words.
>>E-c_h-e_l-o_n and B-u_r-n_i-n_g b-u_s-h.
>>
>>I'll have to go, some one is knocking at the front door.................
>
>So, if I embed "Echelon" & "Burning bush" in the sig of all my emails,
>will that annoy them?
>
Burning Bush is a herb found is England that was traditionally used (and
still is in parts) to induce a miscarriage up to about 3 months.
One wonders who chooses the names and why.
dog
> Burning Bush is a herb found is England that was traditionally used (and
> still is in parts) to induce a miscarriage up to about 3 months.
>
> One wonders who chooses the names and why.
clearly somebody believed that this form of abortion was a miracle of
biblical proportions. can't think why ;-)
Kira Brown
Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
> In article <uu11ascgij8hfd4ue...@4ax.com>, Doc Gonz0
> <docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:28:09 +0000, Mick Whittingham
>> <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <qro0asga3g1a878oo...@4ax.com>, Doc Gonz0
>>> <docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:52:54 +0000, Mick Whittingham
>>>> <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>
>> They may be diverted, but monitored? By whom? There are, IIRC, 75
>> million phone lines in this country. I'd guesstimate 10 calls from
>> each line per day, of 2 minutes average length. Assuming that 25% of
>> them are data (fax or modem) with an average bandwidth of 30kbps, and
>> the rest voice calls at about 10kbps (Note that these numbers are
>> almost certainly *way* low,
They are. About five million of the phone lines in this country are ISDN
lines with a bandwidth of 128kbits/sec, and all phone lines actually use
64kbits/sec to carry voice around the exchange. There are closer to 100
million phone lines in this country, though a lot of them spend a lot of
time idle.
BT have a fair few Gbits/sec *just* for voice across the Atlantic. There
are terabits per second of voice and data traffic floating around Ealing and
Telehouse. and that's before you start ont eh microwave linkes and the
satbounce uplinks.
>> So, that's (quick and probably wildly inaccurate
>> calculation) 850 gigabytes of raw data *per day*.
I'd say it was probably closer to 4Tbytes a day.
> Yup plus some. But only from major cities and centres of technical
> excellence between each other and in and out of the country.
The HEP centre at Liverpool generates 2Tbytes of data a day all on its own.
*duh* THINK, guys.
>> Anyone care to calculate exactly how much processing power it would
>> take to monitor that in real-time (excluding the time needed to decode
>> fax and modem communications) for a list of keywords?
You need a P2-266 to do reasonably accurate voice decode. Let's say that at
any given time it's decoding a million phone calls (the BT network is
capable of sustaining ten times that, but we'll say a million.)
There ain't that much CPU power in any set of hands anywhere. Even if you
buy Crays to do it (and it would be foolish; vector processors like Y-MP
don't fare well on this sort of serial work) you'd need a hundred thousand
of them.
> I think currently at GC they have 24(?) Amdahl Crays working on it each
> with tetra bytes of temporary storage.
Nowhere near enough.
> The UK budget is *vast* plus there is a huge input from the US of A for
> use of the equipment and data. Until you have seen these places they
> exist only in James Bond films. An insight occurs when the
> decommissioned building comes up for sale.
The computer industry would have noticed someone buying a hundred kay of
Crays, matey...
kira.
darsy
<Ant...@Netscape.net> wrote:
>You've been watching too much Matrix, old boy.
ObWe'reAllLivingALie:
Anyone follow any of this?
William Grainger
darsy <da...@sticky.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:20:20 +0000, Antony Espindola
><Ant...@Netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>You've been watching too much Matrix, old boy.
>
>ObWe'reAllLivingALie:
>
>http://www.timecube.com
>
>Anyone follow any of this?
>
Not really, no.
I can imagine a Daily Star type review of it. Something along
the lines of 'Pwooorrrr. What a nutter!'
But I did laugh at "Pedant humans are stupid and evil."
Did anyone else think of Dan?
--
Will
CX 500C
IMC #10
Euain F. Drysdale
> There ain't that much CPU power in any set of hands anywhere. Even if you
> buy Crays to do it (and it would be foolish; vector processors like Y-MP
> don't fare well on this sort of serial work) you'd need a hundred thousand
> of them.
>
What about the newer crays- T3E and the likes. Scalar processors
(Alphas aren't they)- thousands in a machine (well something over 500
in the one they let us play on and I am sure that is far from top of
the line!). A job like this would parallelise well (no need to share
data between the different jobs). Wouldn't take _that_ many to
somewhere in the right ballpark.
--
Euain Drysdale
Displaced Scotsman with a Bandit 600 =)
and a Peugeot 205 Diesel =(
e-mail: drysdale_at_storm_dot_ag_dot_rl_dot_ac_dot_uk
**** Desperately seeking inspiration for a .sig =) ****
Bastard Bear
>
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:20:20 +0000, Antony Espindola
> <Ant...@Netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >You've been watching too much Matrix, old boy.
>
> ObWe'reAllLivingALie:
>
> http://www.timecube.com
>
> Anyone follow any of this?
Wow!
And I thought *I* knew some strange folk :-)=
I liked the quote "GOD IS CORNERED AS A QUEER." that was ... original.
The temptation to e-mail him and ask "so what time is it now, then?" was
great, but I resisted as I don't want to be mailbombed as a heretic :-)=
Mick Whittingham
writes
>Mick Whittingham wrote:
>
>SNIP
>
>> I think currently at GC they have 24(?) Amdahl Crays working on it each
>> with tetra bytes of temporary storage.
>
>They keep tropical fish?
>
>... in their underpants?
Mick Whittingham
<ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes
>In article JTVczCAl...@mjwc.demon.co.uk, Mick Whittingham
>Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
>> In article <uu11ascgij8hfd4ue...@4ax.com>, Doc Gonz0
>> <docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:28:09 +0000, Mick Whittingham
>>> <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <qro0asga3g1a878oo...@4ax.com>, Doc Gonz0
>>>> <docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:52:54 +0000, Mick Whittingham
>>>>> <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>
>*duh* THINK, guys.
>
>>> Anyone care to calculate exactly how much processing power it would
>>> take to monitor that in real-time (excluding the time needed to decode
>>> fax and modem communications) for a list of keywords?
>
>You need a P2-266 to do reasonably accurate voice decode. Let's say that at
>any given time it's decoding a million phone calls (the BT network is
>capable of sustaining ten times that, but we'll say a million.)
The same methods are used as are used with modern sonar and radar
scanning. You have to get rid of the clutter first. That's after you've
become selective over what you scan. That's the front end. Then you use
poly-morphic processing to optimise the way all the processing power is
used and the impossible become possible.
>
>There ain't that much CPU power in any set of hands anywhere. Even if you
>buy Crays to do it (and it would be foolish; vector processors like Y-MP
>don't fare well on this sort of serial work) you'd need a hundred thousand
>of them.
It aint dun like that.
Thank goodness your not the guy who specifies the equipment on my
projects. I couldn't afford your purchase bill.
>
>> I think currently at GC they have 24(?) Amdahl Crays working on it each
>> with tetra bytes of temporary storage.
>
>Nowhere near enough.
More than enough to do what they are doing.
>
>
>> The UK budget is *vast* plus there is a huge input from the US of A for
>> use of the equipment and data. Until you have seen these places they
>> exist only in James Bond films. An insight occurs when the
>> decommissioned building comes up for sale.
>
>The computer industry would have noticed someone buying a hundred kay of
>Crays, matey...
But not 24 over 6 years. The Met office have purchased that many a
year.
>
>kira.
Mark Kelsall
>
> In article JTVczCAl...@mjwc.demon.co.uk, Mick Whittingham
> Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
> > In article <uu11ascgij8hfd4ue...@4ax.com>, Doc Gonz0
> > <docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> >> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:28:09 +0000, Mick Whittingham
> >> <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article <qro0asga3g1a878oo...@4ax.com>, Doc Gonz0
> >>> <docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> >>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:52:54 +0000, Mick Whittingham
> >>>> <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>
> >> million phone lines in this country. I'd guesstimate 10 calls from
> >> each line per day, of 2 minutes average length. Assuming that 25% of
> >> them are data (fax or modem) with an average bandwidth of 30kbps, and
> >> the rest voice calls at about 10kbps (Note that these numbers are
> >> almost certainly *way* low,
>
> They are. About five million of the phone lines in this country are ISDN
> lines with a bandwidth of 128kbits/sec, and all phone lines actually use
> 64kbits/sec to carry voice around the exchange. There are closer to 100
> million phone lines in this country, though a lot of them spend a lot of
> time idle.
>
> BT have a fair few Gbits/sec *just* for voice across the Atlantic. There
> are terabits per second of voice and data traffic floating around Ealing and
> Telehouse. and that's before you start ont eh microwave linkes and the
> satbounce uplinks.
>
> >> So, that's (quick and probably wildly inaccurate
> >> calculation) 850 gigabytes of raw data *per day*.
>
> I'd say it was probably closer to 4Tbytes a day.
>
> > Yup plus some. But only from major cities and centres of technical
> > excellence between each other and in and out of the country.
>
> The HEP centre at Liverpool generates 2Tbytes of data a day all on its own.
>
>
> >> Anyone care to calculate exactly how much processing power it would
> >> take to monitor that in real-time (excluding the time needed to decode
> >> fax and modem communications) for a list of keywords?
>
> You need a P2-266 to do reasonably accurate voice decode. Let's say that at
> any given time it's decoding a million phone calls (the BT network is
> capable of sustaining ten times that, but we'll say a million.)
>
> buy Crays to do it (and it would be foolish; vector processors like Y-MP
> don't fare well on this sort of serial work) you'd need a hundred thousand
> of them.
>
> > with tetra bytes of temporary storage.
>
> Nowhere near enough.
>
> > use of the equipment and data. Until you have seen these places they
> > exist only in James Bond films. An insight occurs when the
> > decommissioned building comes up for sale.
>
> The computer industry would have noticed someone buying a hundred kay of
> Crays, matey...
>
Don't Sun own Cray now?? If so, I'll be buying a 2nd hand Cray in
another 10-15 years. ;) We have an emulator running on a Starfire
system... quite good it is too.
Mark Kelsall
>
> In article <B4C73B91.527E%ki...@linuxgrrls.org>, Kira Brown
> <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes
> >Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
> >
> >> In article <uu11ascgij8hfd4ue...@4ax.com>, Doc Gonz0
> >> <docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> >>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:28:09 +0000, Mick Whittingham
> >>> <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In article <qro0asga3g1a878oo...@4ax.com>, Doc Gonz0
> >>>> <docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> >>>>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:52:54 +0000, Mick Whittingham
> >>>>> <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>
>
> >*duh* THINK, guys.
> >
> >>> Anyone care to calculate exactly how much processing power it would
> >>> take to monitor that in real-time (excluding the time needed to decode
> >>> fax and modem communications) for a list of keywords?
> >
> >You need a P2-266 to do reasonably accurate voice decode. Let's say that at
> >any given time it's decoding a million phone calls (the BT network is
> >capable of sustaining ten times that, but we'll say a million.)
>
> scanning. You have to get rid of the clutter first. That's after you've
> become selective over what you scan. That's the front end. Then you use
> poly-morphic processing to optimise the way all the processing power is
> used and the impossible become possible.
> >
> >buy Crays to do it (and it would be foolish; vector processors like Y-MP
> >don't fare well on this sort of serial work) you'd need a hundred thousand
> >of them.
>
> Thank goodness your not the guy who specifies the equipment on my
> projects. I couldn't afford your purchase bill.
> >
> >> with tetra bytes of temporary storage.
> >
> >Nowhere near enough.
>
> >
> >
> >> use of the equipment and data. Until you have seen these places they
> >> exist only in James Bond films. An insight occurs when the
> >> decommissioned building comes up for sale.
> >
> >The computer industry would have noticed someone buying a hundred kay of
> >Crays, matey...
>
> year.
Mmmm.. keep an eye on StarBridge (www.starbridge.com) systems.. Got lots
of good stuff! A little different from the ol' Crays. ;)
Mark Kelsall
>
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:20:20 +0000, Antony Espindola
> <Ant...@Netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >You've been watching too much Matrix, old boy.
>
> ObWe'reAllLivingALie:
>
> http://www.timecube.com
>
> Anyone follow any of this?
>
Sort of..
< makes sign of holy time cube >
Mark Kelsall
>
> In article <7231assqq0a1qfis3...@4ax.com>, Doc Gonz0
> <docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> >On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:20:20 +0000, Antony Espindola
> ><Ant...@Netscape.net> wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>
> >>You've been watching too much Matrix, old boy.
>
Yeh.. but it's a shame the cat suit is only made of PVC and not latex.
;)
> >
> >RSA encryption is, apparently, easily crackable - a 16 year old Irish
> >schoolgirl (!) managed to find a hole in the algorithm. It still takes
> >a *shitload* of processor time, but a *lot* less than it did with
> >brute-force methods.
> They use brute-force with a shit load of processing capability.
A friend said...
"You can use perl to show up the (basic) weaknesses in PGP... quite
quickly infact. An even quicker method is to have a look at the source
code."
> >But it's all a bunch of arse. The government (US
> >or UK) can't find their arses with both hands and a map,
> True.
LOL... true..ish.. Only in the event of a GPS DoS attack. :)
> >and they're
> >meant to be capable of this?
> They don't, they get clever people from industry to do the clever bits
> for them. They in turn charge them shit loads of money which we all
> provide.
>
Ex army, navy .. ect.. are the safest bet.. good work if you can get it
too.
Mark Kelsall
> >
> >[]
> >> RSA encryption is, apparently, easily crackable - a 16 year old Irish
> >> schoolgirl (!) managed to find a hole in the algorithm. It still takes
> >> a *shitload* of processor time, but a *lot* less than it did with
> >> brute-force methods.
> >
> >Apropos of nothing, SETI@Home[0] seems to be doing about 11-12
> >teraFLOPs/sec or >1000 years of CPU time, *every day*, ATM...
> >
> As a matter of interest, how many clients do they have now?
Too many so I hear!! (sending duplicate data blocks out ect...)
Wolf
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:50:11 +0000, docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk
> (Doc Gonz0) wrote:
>
> >I had no idea how low my figures were. The London Internet Exchange
> >(www.linx.org) handles an average of 300M/*sec* - that's 25
> >tera-fucking-bytes per day of internet traffic *alone* in the UK. And
> >this excludes intra-ISP movements (mail to someone on the same ISP)
> >and the traffic which travels through Manchester and the
> >AOL/Compuserve/Netscape On-Line backbones. So. Who wants to start
> >sifting through that lot?
>
> fact. Much more fun to spread the paranoia fruit bat...
... said the paranoid fruit case. (;-[)>
--
Wolf. Rover V8 3500cc automatic "Vampire" trike [pending] : ICQ 54520747
UKRMHRC#1 : MIB#2 : HB#1 : BOG#2 : BBIWYMC#3 : GHPOTHUF#13 : NABD : Gof5
Wolf's Trike Site :- http://web.ukonline.co.uk/andrew.mott/contents.html
Skull Spark Joker : Mickey Mouse With A Chainsaw : Tattooed Beat Messiah
Kira Brown
Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
> The same methods are used as are used with modern sonar and radar
> scanning. You have to get rid of the clutter first. That's after you've
> become selective over what you scan. That's the front end. Then you use
> poly-morphic processing to optimise the way all the processing power is
> used and the impossible become possible.
They're a completely different class of problems; I know this, because I
wrote DSP software for a year that drives phased-array sonar scanners in a
manufacturing environment.
You can't trim the clutter in a monitoring capacity without decoding the
speech first. If you use a smart algo that recognises calls people make
that are harmless (I'm unlikely to be seditious while ordering a pizza :-)
and disregards them, you're unlikely to be able to trim by a factor of more
than ten to one. Even so, you're going to need more along the lines of a
hundred thousand node array- two thousand big Crays ought to do it, or you
could buy twenty five thousand commodity PCs and make a cluster of them.
That, mind you, is a possibility. They could buy that many PCs without
getting noticed too much. but it's unlikely that they would.
>> There ain't that much CPU power in any set of hands anywhere. Even if you
>> buy Crays to do it (and it would be foolish; vector processors like Y-MP
>> don't fare well on this sort of serial work) you'd need a hundred thousand
>> of them.
> It aint dun like that.
It ain't dun at all.
> Thank goodness your not the guy who specifies the equipment on my
> projects.
I'm not a guy at all :-P
> I couldn't afford your purchase bill.
You couldn't afford my consultancy fee, matey boy.
>>
>>> I think currently at GC they have 24(?) Amdahl Crays working on it each
>>> with tetra bytes of temporary storage.
>>
>> Nowhere near enough.
>
> More than enough to do what they are doing.
Evidently, but what they are doing isn't decoding every phone call in the
UK.
>> The computer industry would have noticed someone buying a hundred kay of
>> Crays, matey...
>
> But not 24 over 6 years. The Met office have purchased that many a
> year.
24 T3Es is not going to decode that many conversations.
kira.
Mark Godfrey
>
[snip]
>
> What about the newer crays- T3E and the likes. Scalar processors
> (Alphas aren't they)- thousands in a machine (well something over 500
Indeed they are.
Very fast CPU's, let me tell you!
> in the one they let us play on and I am sure that is far from top of
> the line!). A job like this would parallelise well (no need to share
> data between the different jobs). Wouldn't take _that_ many to
> somewhere in the right ballpark.
Considering the new crays have bucketloads of Alpha's / Cray...
--
Mark in P'boro (KH125,Z400) // ma...@cyberware.co.uk
TPPFATUICG#6 IMC#17 // ma...@imagine.org.uk
Mark Godfrey
>
[snip]
> A TCP/IP driven ATM router has to look at every packet (no networking
Nope - it looks at the TCP dst address & MAC address, and routes
it appropriately. There's no need for it to look at anything else.
Routers work at Layer 3 of the IP stack, not level 7.
> manual at hand.. :( someone's nicked it. :o(( ) and with some of the kit
> we are testing out... it's no big deal.. It does take processing
> power... lots... and lots.. (Mmmmmm AXD 301...) If you know what sort of
> thing you want to listen for and where.. it's easy. :):):)
Hrm. Only because it /can/ handle 155Mbits/sec...
That's a lot of asynchronous packets.
> Distribute the load over a lot of switches/routers ect.. it's no
> problem.
See my top comment.
Mark Godfrey
>
> In article <7231assqq0a1qfis3...@4ax.com>, Doc Gonz0
> <docg...@theclinic.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> >On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:20:20 +0000, Antony Espindola
> ><Ant...@Netscape.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Mick Whittingham wrote:
> >>>
> >>
> >>You've been watching too much Matrix, old boy.
>
> Did like the bird in the tight cat suite Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
<AOL>
Me, too!
</AOL>
She's called Trinity, btw :)
Antony Espindola
>
> RSA encryption is, apparently, easily crackable -
> a 16 year old Irish schoolgirl (!) managed to find
> a hole in the algorithm.
No - she managed to create a new formula, using simple
matrices, that meant better encryption and a lot
faster too.
> But it's all a bunch of arse. The government (US
> or UK) can't find their arses with both hands and
> a map, and they're meant to be capable of this?
True. I had a look at the GCHQ site and wouldn't
get out of bed for the wages they were offering!
--
Antony. Far Up! Far Out! Far More!
RVF400RR :-) Nobody Does it Better
----------------------------------------------------------
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather,
than screaming in terror like his passengers.- Jim Harkins
----------------------------------------------------------
-----------> http://www.Horrible.Demon.co.uk/ <-----------
Antony Espindola
>
> Burning Bush is a herb found is England that was
> traditionally used (and still is in parts) to
> induce a miscarriage up to about 3 months.
>
> One wonders who chooses the names and why.
I could only guess that it's probably something
close to what it felt like.
I'll get me coat.
Dr Ivan D Reid, muSR Facility
>What about the newer crays- T3E and the likes. Scalar processors
>(Alphas aren't they)- thousands in a machine (well something over 500
>in the one they let us play on and I am sure that is far from top of
>the line!). A job like this would parallelise well (no need to share
>data between the different jobs). Wouldn't take _that_ many to
>somewhere in the right ballpark.
2048 in the one at Lausanne. Let's see, my PC does 1 GIPS + 1 Gflop;
IIRC the SPEC numbers for the latest Alphas are approximately 3 times
my 500 MHz 21164 at the same clock speed, so a 2048-processor Cray with
1 GHz clock could see around 12,000 GIPS + Gflops. I/O might be a problem...
--
Ivan Reid, Paul Scherrer Institute, CH. http://musr0.psi.ch/ ivan...@psi.ch
GSX600F, RG250WD. SI=2.66 "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484
JKLO# 003, 005 WP7# 3000 UKMC#00009
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".
Mick Whittingham
<mark.k...@virgin.net> writes
>Doc Gonz0 wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 22:18:00 +0000, alan....@acm.org (Alan W. Frame)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >[]
>> >> RSA encryption is, apparently, easily crackable - a 16 year old Irish
>> >> a *shitload* of processor time, but a *lot* less than it did with
>> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> brute-force methods.
>> >
>> >Apropos of nothing, SETI@Home[0] seems to be doing about 11-12
>> >teraFLOPs/sec or >1000 years of CPU time, *every day*, ATM...
>> >
>> As a matter of interest, how many clients do they have now?
>
>Too many so I hear!! (sending duplicate data blocks out ect...)
I heard that send out duplicate blocks if an answer is not returned over
a set period. As they get more and more people joining, they *are*
altering what they are looking for within the same monitored period.
Just some thing I read in 'Astronomy'.
This means they must have control over what the parameters are that you
use in processing at home. (I guess).
Mick Whittingham
<ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes
>In article 9LURleAg...@mjwc.demon.co.uk, Mick Whittingham
>Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
>>
>> The same methods are used as are used with modern sonar and radar
>> scanning. You have to get rid of the clutter first. That's after you've
>> become selective over what you scan. That's the front end. Then you use
>> poly-morphic processing to optimise the way all the processing power is
>> used and the impossible become possible.
>
>They're a completely different class of problems; I know this, because I
>wrote DSP software for a year that drives phased-array sonar scanners in a
>manufacturing environment.
I've only worked on military and aerospace applications. I think you'll
find the methods are in a different league.
I base this on the following:
My outfit 'fixed' L****a's software that was meant to locate and
calculate trajectory of incoming fragmenting bodies from re-entering
space craft.
It didn't when we first got it.
That is a shit load of processing in real time from multiple radar
inputs. The radar tracking being also controlled by the software.
>
Oh and Logica's mess they left an Attitude Heading and Reference System
in, for Airbus. Took 2 years that one. But not massive on the
processing front.
>You can't trim the clutter in a monitoring capacity without decoding the
>speech first. If you use a smart algo that recognises calls people make
>that are harmless (I'm unlikely to be seditious while ordering a pizza :-)
>and disregards them, you're unlikely to be able to trim by a factor of more
>than ten to one. Even so, you're going to need more along the lines of a
>hundred thousand node array- two thousand big Crays ought to do it, or you
>could buy twenty five thousand commodity PCs and make a cluster of them.
There you go again, you have to be more selective over what you monitor.
>
>That, mind you, is a possibility. They could buy that many PCs without
>getting noticed too much. but it's unlikely that they would.
You could have suggested that SETI was the NSA using home PCs for their
processing work :-)
>
>>> There ain't that much CPU power in any set of hands anywhere. Even if you
>>> buy Crays to do it (and it would be foolish; vector processors like Y-MP
>>> don't fare well on this sort of serial work) you'd need a hundred thousand
>>> of them.
>> It aint dun like that.
>
>It ain't dun at all.
As the first assumption is incorrect the rest falls apart.
>
>> Thank goodness your not the guy who specifies the equipment on my
>> projects.
>
>I'm not a guy at all :-P
I work internationally, everyone is a 'guy' regardless of sex and has
been since the 80s. Refer to yourself as a girl in an international
engineering environment and you will be asked to put the coffee on. Two
of my best guys in software design for advanced control with orbiting
and aerial bodies in close proximity were Helen and Diana.
>
>> I couldn't afford your purchase bill.
>
>You couldn't afford my consultancy fee, matey boy.
You obviously don't know who I am, or what I do and how much I pay my
people.
BUT you could be right I always open to being corrected. The max I pay
for software design, in England for long term contracts is 78 an hour,
for short term (less than 2 months) the max is 165 an hour, but there
are additional hotel perks for the short term work.
Now when you get abroad it's a different ball park.
You can earn real money there.
>
>>>
>>>> I think currently at GC they have 24(?) Amdahl Crays working on it each
>>>> with tetra bytes of temporary storage.
>>>
>>> Nowhere near enough.
>>
>> More than enough to do what they are doing.
>
>Evidently, but what they are doing isn't decoding every phone call in the
>UK.
*Zing got it* but they can and the soft ware drives what, where and to
what density it is done. The whole thing is fluid as is the multiple use
of processors in 'polymorphic processing'. Marconi used to have the
patent on it which I believe they flogged off in the 90s. You'll find my
name on the original application from Marconi in the 70s.
I also admit to not having design any *real* software since the 80s. I
get other people to do it for me.
>
>
>>> The computer industry would have noticed someone buying a hundred kay of
>>> Crays, matey...
>>
>> But not 24 over 6 years. The Met office have purchased that many a
>> year.
>
>24 T3Es is not going to decode that many conversations.
>
As your first assumption is incorrect the rest falls apart.
Kira Brown
Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
> In article <B4C78D2D.5319%ki...@linuxgrrls.org>, Kira Brown
> <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes
>>
>> They're a completely different class of problems; I know this, because I
>> wrote DSP software for a year that drives phased-array sonar scanners in a
>> manufacturing environment.
>
> I've only worked on military and aerospace applications. I think you'll
> find the methods are in a different league.
This said sonar array was originally a 65k element pahased array, driven by
a farm of 12 twin P2-266es (the fastest we could get at the time) with an
SGI thing of some kind as the visualisation and rendering server. At the
time, the cluster was one of the biggest of its kind anywhere.
We were looking for flaws in large stainless-steel castings. where 'flaw'
was any bubble and even patches of incorrect crystalline growth. (you can't
beat 8MHz sonar for picking this stuff up, it's truly excellent, and it can
get your contact lenses clean too :-)
We eventually replaced all of the computer boxes with a single 250k gate
FPGA. It was faster than the 24 pentytwos, but only at doing a butterfly
FFT...
> My outfit 'fixed' L****a's software that was meant to locate and
> calculate trajectory of incoming fragmenting bodies from re-entering
> space craft.
It's a totally different class of problems to monitoring phone calls.
> There you go again, you have to be more selective over what you monitor.
Thought you said they were monitoring all email and phone traffic earlier.
Must have been my imagination.
> Refer to yourself as a girl in an international
> engineering environment and you will be asked to put the coffee on.
Ask me to put the coffee on and you'll be asked to fuck off :-)
>> You couldn't afford my consultancy fee, matey boy.
>
> You obviously don't know who I am, or what I do and how much I pay my
> people.
Naw; it was a throwaway line :-)
> BUT you could be right I always open to being corrected. The max I pay
> for software design, in England for long term contracts is 78 an hour,
> for short term (less than 2 months) the max is 165 an hour,
I've worked for 500 ukp an hour before. That was doing emergency tech work
for Nissan. (I didn't get to see any of that money, it all went to my boss.
Who was tucked up in bed snug and safe at the time, the bastard. While I
crawled around finding a cable break.)
>> Evidently, but what they are doing isn't decoding every phone call in the
>> UK.
>
> *Zing got it* but they can and the soft ware drives what, where and to
> what density it is done. The whole thing is fluid as is the multiple use
> of processors in 'polymorphic processing'.
Buzzword. What you mean is 'selectively choosing what to look at'.
> Marconi used to have the
> patent on it which I believe they flogged off in the 90s. You'll find my
> name on the original application from Marconi in the 70s.
You'll find my name (or at least, my initials and surname) on one of the
patents from the mid nineties on the use of reconfigurable gate arrays in
signal processing applications. Though all *I* did was to take the work the
theoretical guys had done and make it work...
> I also admit to not having design any *real* software since the 80s. I
> get other people to do it for me.
Can you get someone else to finish off this modbus driver for me please? I'm
really fucked off with it right now.
>>
>> 24 T3Es is not going to decode that many conversations.
>>
> As your first assumption is incorrect the rest falls apart.
>
Er, it wasn't my first assumption. It was your first assertion, that all
phne traffic in the UK is monitored and decoded. It is *not*.
I can pick up my phone and shout 'BURNING BUSH!' into it as much as I like
and *nobody* is going to hear it.
kira.
coming_ba...@my-deja.com
Kira Brown <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> wrote:
> In article oKOEFYAL...@mjwc.demon.co.uk, Mick Whittingham
> Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
> > In article <B4C78D2D.5319%ki...@linuxgrrls.org>, Kira Brown
> > <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes
> >>
> >> They're a completely different class of problems; I know this,
because I
> >> wrote DSP software for a year that drives phased-array sonar
scanners in a
> >> manufacturing environment.
> >
> > I've only worked on military and aerospace applications. I think
you'll
> > find the methods are in a different league.
>
> We eventually replaced all of the computer boxes with a single 250k
gate
> FPGA. It was faster than the 24 pentytwos, but only at doing a
butterfly
> FFT...
whoopie do - no surprise, FPGAs will be good on specific task functions,
hardware beats the crap out of software in this situation, *EVERY* time.
> > My outfit 'fixed' L****a's software that was meant to locate and
> > calculate trajectory of incoming fragmenting bodies from re-entering
> > space craft.
>
> It's a totally different class of problems to monitoring phone calls.
Really ?
there has to be some similarities.
>
> > There you go again, you have to be more selective over what you
monitor.
>
> Thought you said they were monitoring all email and phone traffic
earlier.
> Must have been my imagination.
>
> > Refer to yourself as a girl in an international
> > engineering environment and you will be asked to put the coffee on.
Nice place you come from - we usually ask 'em to get their kit off :-)
>
> Ask me to put the coffee on and you'll be asked to fuck off :-)
See - this ones getting the picture.
>
> >> You couldn't afford my consultancy fee, matey boy.
> >
> > You obviously don't know who I am, or what I do and how much I pay
my
> > people.
>
> Naw; it was a throwaway line :-)
>
> > BUT you could be right I always open to being corrected. The max I
pay
> > for software design, in England for long term contracts is 78 an
hour,
> > for short term (less than 2 months) the max is 165 an hour,
Gizza job.
(wonder why softies get paid so much to screw it up time and again ?
Hardware engineers get paid to do it right - first time :-)
--
H.J.
aka CBAY.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
VFR Bloke
(ki...@linuxgrrls.org) gave forth with a sudden burst of eloquence, thus:
[snipperoony]
> You can't trim the clutter in a monitoring capacity without decoding the
> speech first. If you use a smart algo that recognises calls people make
> that are harmless (I'm unlikely to be seditious while ordering a pizza :-)
> and disregards them, you're unlikely to be able to trim by a factor of more
> than ten to one. Even so, you're going to need more along the lines of a
> hundred thousand node array- two thousand big Crays ought to do it, or you
> could buy twenty five thousand commodity PCs and make a cluster of them.
>
> That, mind you, is a possibility. They could buy that many PCs without
> getting noticed too much. but it's unlikely that they would.
Ahem. Are we still talking about BT here? 'Cause if we are, then Trust
Me [tm], they do and they do. DAMHIK,IJD, OK?
--
|Rik R. - UKRMHRC#10 - VFR800FI-W - DC#1 *Remove the spamtrap to email*
|# You don't believe me | "Experience is the worst teacher.
|That the scenery | It always gives the test first
|Could be a cold-blooded killer. | and the instruction afterward."
Mick Whittingham
>In article oKOEFYAL...@mjwc.demon.co.uk, Mick Whittingham
>Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
>> In article <B4C78D2D.5319%ki...@linuxgrrls.org>, Kira Brown
>> <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes
>>
>> I've only worked on military and aerospace applications. I think you'll
>> find the methods are in a different league.
>
>
>> My outfit 'fixed' L****a's software that was meant to locate and
>> calculate trajectory of incoming fragmenting bodies from re-entering
>> space craft.
>
>It's a totally different class of problems to monitoring phone calls.
I used the example as an application of handling multiple inputs in a
fluid environment. And I mean a lot of inputs, the attention you gave
the sampling changes all the time. Theory had it, it was from 1cmsq
upwards from what was left of a 500 ton at lift off vehicle.
>
>
>> There you go again, you have to be more selective over what you monitor.
>
>Thought you said they were monitoring all email and phone traffic earlier.
>Must have been my imagination.
From what they term 'sights of technical excellence', yes. Plus comms
traffic from this country to others, mostly those countries that are of
interest.
>
>> Refer to yourself as a girl in an international
>> engineering environment and you will be asked to put the coffee on.
>
>Ask me to put the coffee on and you'll be asked to fuck off :-)
Ah, I like spirit in a girl :-)
>
>>> You couldn't afford my consultancy fee, matey boy.
>>
>> You obviously don't know who I am, or what I do and how much I pay my
>> people.
>
>Naw; it was a throwaway line :-)
>
>
>> BUT you could be right I always open to being corrected. The max I pay
>> for software design, in England for long term contracts is 78 an hour,
>> for short term (less than 2 months) the max is 165 an hour,
>
>I've worked for 500 ukp an hour before. That was doing emergency tech work
>for Nissan. (I didn't get to see any of that money, it all went to my boss.
>Who was tucked up in bed snug and safe at the time, the bastard. While I
>crawled around finding a cable break.)
That's the difference. It's what I pay, what I charge on the other hand
, I embarrass my self at times.
>
>
>>> Evidently, but what they are doing isn't decoding every phone call in the
>>> UK.
>>
>> *Zing got it* but they can and the soft ware drives what, where and to
>> what density it is done. The whole thing is fluid as is the multiple use
>> of processors in 'polymorphic processing'.
>
>Buzzword. What you mean is 'selectively choosing what to look at'.
Polymorphic processing is still in use today by huge number crunchers
like Cray who I think got the patent off of Marconi. It was initially
developed to enable much faster processing for radar and ECM when 16k
was a lot of 'core' and clock rates were in Ks. A system uses multiple
processors with a command system that allocates what processors are used
by ability or availability. By using the technique with today's
equipment processing speed are truly amazing.
>
>> Marconi used to have the
>> patent on it which I believe they flogged off in the 90s. You'll find my
>> name on the original application from Marconi in the 70s.
>
>You'll find my name (or at least, my initials and surname) on one of the
>patents from the mid nineties on the use of reconfigurable gate arrays in
>signal processing applications. Though all *I* did was to take the work the
>theoretical guys had done and make it work...
And the company gets the profit..... Sounds like we have both been
there.
>
>> I also admit to not having design any *real* software since the 80s. I
>> get other people to do it for me.
>
>Can you get someone else to finish off this modbus driver for me please? I'm
>really fucked off with it right now.
What frightens me is I picked up the SCOS listings the other day,
(Spaceborne Computer Operating System) for SpaceLab, which I was
responsible for.
Didn't understand a thing.
>
>>>
>>> 24 T3Es is not going to decode that many conversations.
>>>
>> As your first assumption is incorrect the rest falls apart.
>>
>
>Er, it wasn't my first assumption. It was your first assertion, that all
>phne traffic in the UK is monitored and decoded. It is *not*.
Again the ability is there. The choice is from what they term 'sights of
technical excellence'. Plus comms traffic from this country to others,
mostly those that are of interest.
>
>I can pick up my phone and shout 'BURNING BUSH![1]' into it as much as
I like
>and *nobody* is going to hear it.
Depends where you are and who you are phoning. You have to dial first,
it's those little buttons on the front :-)
>
[1] Plus see my comment on the anti abortionists on another thread.
Melanie Rhianna Lewis
Mick Whittingham <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> writes:
> BUT you could be right I always open to being corrected. The max I pay
> for software design, in England for long term contracts is 78 an hour,
> for short term (less than 2 months) the max is 165 an hour, but there
> are additional hotel perks for the short term work.
Similar contract rates I would charge as a bastard accountant.
Unfortunately as a mere employee I didn't get that as salary. When I went
back to college, with the agreement of my old employer I did a contract at
no where near those rates but still managed to earn in 6 hours what was my
weekly earnings as an employee. It paid my way through my MSc.
Melanie
--
======================================================================
Melanie Rhianna Lewis mel...@defaid.demon.co.uk
'An it hurt none, do what thou wilt' http://www.defaid.demon.co.uk
Remove penis to reply - BAB DOGMUK ICKLEBIKES TCP - GS550 MZ125
======================================================================
Mick Whittingham
<Rik_...@spamless.hotmail.com> writes
>Possibly under the influence of cosmic rays, Kira Brown
>(ki...@linuxgrrls.org) gave forth with a sudden burst of eloquence, thus:
>
>[snipperoony]
>> You can't trim the clutter in a monitoring capacity without decoding the
>> speech first. If you use a smart algo that recognises calls people make
>> that are harmless (I'm unlikely to be seditious while ordering a pizza :-)
>> and disregards them, you're unlikely to be able to trim by a factor of more
>> than ten to one. Even so, you're going to need more along the lines of a
>> hundred thousand node array- two thousand big Crays ought to do it, or you
>> could buy twenty five thousand commodity PCs and make a cluster of them.
>>
>> That, mind you, is a possibility. They could buy that many PCs without
>> getting noticed too much. but it's unlikely that they would.
>
>Ahem. Are we still talking about BT here? 'Cause if we are, then Trust
>Me [tm], they do and they do. DAMHIK,IJD, OK?
Software term '13ed' so not to cause offence:
Shpxnqhpx. [1]
Are we agreeing?
[1] Why is it I have heard this expression more in a SW environment than
any where else?
Mick Whittingham
<g...@gmartin.demon.co.uk> writes>It all makes perfect sense to me.
>
>See, the Earth isn't round, it's a cube and a cube has four
>corners....oh wait, but it doesn't....bugger....anyway, 'cos the Earth
>is a cube, so people live on one of the four corners and most people
>don't.
No it's not, it's a disc sitting on the top of four elephants standing
on a giant turtle.
Kira Brown
coming_ba...@my-deja.com wrote:
> whoopie do - no surprise, FPGAs will be good on specific task functions,
> hardware beats the crap out of software in this situation, *EVERY* time.
No shit, Sherlock. That's why we did it that way. (The 24 P2s and PSU
wouldn't have fitted inside the sensor head casing :-)
> (wonder why softies get paid so much to screw it up time and again ?
> Hardware engineers get paid to do it right - first time :-)
Bollocks do you. I'm always having to fix in my drivers the fuckups of you
wanker hardware engineers. You think that just because you've documented
the brokenness, it disappears... *grumble*
kira.
Kira Brown
Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
> In article <B4C86349.540B%ki...@linuxgrrls.org>, Kira Brown
> <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes
>> In article oKOEFYAL...@mjwc.demon.co.uk, Mick Whittingham
>> Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
>>
>>> Refer to yourself as a girl in an international
>>> engineering environment and you will be asked to put the coffee on.
>>
>> Ask me to put the coffee on and you'll be asked to fuck off :-)
>
> Ah, I like spirit in a girl :-)
I like spirits in my coffee. So there you go.
As a professional whizzkid, I tend to be (1) the only girl on a project team
consisting of excessively macho industrial ee types, (2) outranking all of
them and (3) younger than the lot... so I have to throw my weight around a
bit or they get all insubordinate :-)
> Polymorphic processing is still in use today by huge number crunchers
> like Cray who I think got the patent off of Marconi.
MUPPET (processor I designed; got prototyped a bit and then I got a real job
:-) did this by dynamically reconfiguring FPGAs to suit job type at hand.
It was neat as hell, and it never worked properly :-)
>> Can you get someone else to finish off this modbus driver for me please? I'm
>> really fucked off with it right now.
Fucking modbus fucking shite is still not fucking working.
> What frightens me is I picked up the SCOS listings the other day,
> (Spaceborne Computer Operating System) for SpaceLab, which I was
> responsible for.
>
> Didn't understand a thing.
I know that feeling. I've been sat here all day trying to decode some
software I wrote just before Christmas, while I was in hospital and full of
painkillers... morphine does funny things to C code, and I cannot remember
*any* of it.
Will someone please tell me why I did all this indexed register access in
this specific order? and why if I change the order it blows up? when the
data sheet says there's no dependency between *any* of them?
Wah!
kira.
Mark Kelsall
>
> I heard that send out duplicate blocks if an answer is not returned over
> a set period. As they get more and more people joining, they *are*
> altering what they are looking for within the same monitored period.
>
> Just some thing I read in 'Astronomy'.
>
Cool.. sorts that one out. :)
> This means they must have control over what the parameters are that you
> use in processing at home. (I guess).
> >
>
You've got more control than that over a Windows pc. ;)
Mark Kelsall
>
> Mark Kelsall wrote:
> >
> [snip]
>
> > A TCP/IP driven ATM router has to look at every packet (no networking
>
> Nope - it looks at the TCP dst address & MAC address, and routes
> it appropriately. There's no need for it to look at anything else.
> Routers work at Layer 3 of the IP stack, not level 7.
>
You seem to be using the old OSI model there :) ... there are actually
bits of networking kit that can process up to OSI level [567] or the
application layer on TCP/IP (level4).
>
> Hrm. Only because it /can/ handle 155Mbits/sec...
> That's a lot of asynchronous packets.
An Ericsson AXE 301 can handle from 10Gbits/sec to 160Gbits/sec.. (wiv
Terabit rates possible very soon. :o)) (This was from my companies
website today.)
>
> > Distribute the load over a lot of switches/routers ect.. it's no
> > problem.
>
> See my top comment.
>
Ok then... a big computer acting as a bridge then. ;)
I'll get my jacket...
Molly Fletcher
coming_ba...@my-deja.com writes:
> (wonder why softies get paid so much to screw it up time and again ?
> Hardware engineers get paid to do it right - first time :-)
LOL! Yeah right.
--
============================================================================
Molly Fletcher mo...@ee.bath.ac.uk
Computer Support M.Fle...@bath.ac.uk
Electronic & Electrical Engineering
University of Bath http://www.bath.ac.uk/~eesmf
============================================================================
Windy
<Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>B888888 B888 it the largest collection of Amdahl Crays (sp) anywhere in
>the world, all talking to each other in one big net. It is in England at
>a place called g-C_h-Q.
When I was working in the removals trade, we shifted a number of
bods from London to Gloucestershire in the space of a few months.
All very circumspect about what they did for a living but I was
always asked to arrange for the account to be sent to .....
GCHQ, PO Box ***, Cheltenham.
Used to make I larf.
--
~*~*~*~* W I N D Y *~*~*~*~
NGG#13-BOCW#1-BOG#0-COC#1-TCP#4-TGH-HRHTart-DOGMUK
Zephyr 1100 (Mr Al)
FIND THE UKRM FAQ at
http://www.windfalls.u-net.com/ukrm/ukrmfaq1.html
Craig Orson Oakland (COO I)
news:B4C8BA2E.54AF%ki...@linuxgrrls.org...
: I know that feeling. I've been sat here all day trying to decode some
: software I wrote just before Christmas, while I was in hospital and full
of
: painkillers... morphine does funny things to C code, and I cannot
remember
^^^^^^^^
Yeow- what for, an accident (must have been serious)? Or did you follow
Melanie "Remove penis to reply" into surgery...
--
Craig O. Oakland
``\\\{PS#1}///''; owns rides and maintains a MuZ Skorpion Sport; a Vespa
P200E Polini 212cc
"I've gort a loverley bunch of coconuts..."
Craig Oakland
: In article 87vhc7$q...@gap.cco.caltech.edu, Craig Orson Oakland (COO I)
: dotacio...@st-helena.zzn.com wrote:
:
: > Kira Brown <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> wrote in message
: > news:B4C8BA2E.54AF%ki...@linuxgrrls.org...
: >
: > : [hospital]
: > Yeow- what for, an accident (must have been serious)?
:
: Er, correction of a birth defect, actually. (Actually, the same surgeon
and
: ward as Molly was in three weeks earlier... surgery just a touch
different
: though. If you want to feel really depressed, have a look at www.isna.org
: and see how fucked up *I* was...)
Which particularly? if you don't mind telling...
: kira.
The tone of my earlier comment wasn't totally serious, but *HELLO* I am
sober now...
Let me take a moment to reflect on what a synchronous week this has been.
There.
Very much related to this, going back to about the time I was back doing
school full time (er uh late '70's) I'll never forget about an article I
read at the time about a botched circumcision. The parents were influenced
to raise the child as a girl, and have him fully "converted"[1]. It was one
mistake after another from then on...
Even as a know-nothing student back then I had enough sense to think the way
they were going about this, reading between the lines, this was a bad
idea...
Well that person is 34 now, with a wife and three adopted children, and he,
his twin brother (!) and mother have decided to come out to speak of their
experiences, in fact the other night on the telly, there *he* was...
I can fully appreciate, understand, and empathize with the amount of rage
this young man has had- still *has*- in his life.
In short, a simply amazing amount of quackery[1] went unreported and
unchecked (wasn't this supposed to be science[2]?) as some psychiatrist
fucked up on hubris and ego kept telling the academic community how great
the subject was doing- which was in fact the baldest of bald-faced lies.
[1] the (ahem) good Dr.s' supposition being that sex is determined by
nurture not nature, a tragically mistaken diagnosis in this case.
[2] yeah, right
--
COO I
Now, Smoother *and* Deadlier...
Craig Oakland
: Long, depressing, and somewhat selfcentred, so ignore it if you will:: > If you want to feel really
: > depressed, have a look at www.isna.org : and see how fucked up *I*
was...)
: > Which particularly? if you don't mind telling...
:
: invoved had carefully destroyed all the records of the surgery I was
: subjected to in the first 24 hours of my life. Neither were my parents
: consulted. Apparently they do this to stop it from prejudicing the child
in
: later life... pah!
"SIr, I put it to you that the act of torching your files is tantamount to
an admission of guilt. What say you?!"
: From the looks of the scars, now thankfully gone :-), the Man in Brighton
: said it looked like some reconstruction work had gone on. From the fact
: that I have a 46XY karyotype but testosterone levels too low to pick up on
a
: normal test (and that'll pick up the 0.2 nmols/l that normal women have),
we
: can assume that I have some kind of genetic abnormality that stops me
making
: the stuff. I must have had *some* androgens chucked at me during
gestation,
: though, or I'd not have ended up inbetweeny, but as the isna page
explains,
: there are other places these can come from, including the mother.
:
: This is all detective work and I've been carefully destroying all the
: evidence of it that I can :-)
:
: All of which explains why I have joint and bone deformities and a nasty
case
: of osteoporosis- thankfully being reversed by some heavy duty HRT as we
: speak... and the fact that since I started said HRT in 1998 I've been
: having a crack at an adult puberty (since I didn't have one when I was 12,
: that is). It's great, I'm actually mature enough to behave myself in pubs
: and I *do* want to go out, and I *do* have the money to do it. When I'm
not
: paying surgeons, that is. Which I will be doing for a large portion of
the
: next decade.
:
: > The tone of my earlier comment wasn't totally serious, but *HELLO* I am
sober
: > now...
:
: Yes, nice, isn't it.
:
: > Very much related to this, going back to about the time I was back doing
: > school full time (er uh late '70's) I'll never forget about an article
I read
: > at the time about a botched circumcision. The parents were influenced
to
: > raise the child as a girl, and have him fully "converted"[1]. It was
one
: > mistake after another from then on...
:
: Well, yes. If you've got a male brain, then having a female body is going
: to be a bit of a bummer. If you've got a female brain then having a male
: body isn't good either. And if you've got a fully paid-up female brain
and
: a body that doesn't know what the hell it's doing but has been cut and
: stitched into a male shape, well, you're basically up shit creek.
:
: Fortunately in my case I wasn't too badly butchered by the original
surgery-
: but there are some real horror stories out there...
: > In short, a simply amazing amount of quackery[1] went unreported and
: You'd be shocked. Really. One in fifty thousand births (estimated; there
: are no hard figures on this) in this country receives surgery for some
form
: of intersex condition and only about a tenth of this with the knowledge
: (never mind the consent) of the parents.
In light of this, it's easy to imagine that much goes on in hospital that we
never hear about.
: In my case I was whisked away from my mother and I only reappeared 24
hours
: later in an intensive care baby unit having had a blood transfusion and on
a
: ventilator. The notes had disappeared from the file and the doctors were
: evasive, according to my mum's diary...
: Yes, I am bitter about this. It's wasted a hell of a lot of my time.
: > unchecked (wasn't this supposed to be science[2]?)
:
: What happened to peer review?
Peers? Dr. Money?
Actually there is a junior researcher who was aware of the facts, but held
his tongue.
: > as some psychiatrist fucked up on hubris and ego kept telling the
academic
: > community how great the subject was doing- which was in fact the baldest
of
: > bald-faced lies.
:
: ...because the subject was screwed up totally. Glad to see he's doing
: better now, though. As am I :-)
Will hoist a few to you come Fiday night cheers!
: Okay, so we've got a couple of TS types, there's me (I'm IS *and* TS, if
: such a thing is possible, since I have 'male' on my birth cert)... any
other
: variants on transgender we can fit in?
I might have my suspicions but I'm no grass ;^}
FYI, here's one report about the case file
http://news.excite.com/news/uw/000208/university-education-14
This report is prior to his public appearances so doesn't mention him by
name
--
Craig Oakland n.d.g. (COO I)
rides owns maintains 1995 MuZ Skorpion[1], a lovely teal color; 1979 Vespa
P200E Polini 212cc
[1] see at http://home.pacbell.net/oioioioi/muz.htm
Mick Whittingham
> Kira Brown <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> wrote:
>> In article oKOEFYAL...@mjwc.demon.co.uk, Mick Whittingham
>> Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> > <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes
>> >>
>
>Gizza job.
>(wonder why softies get paid so much to screw it up time and again ?
>Hardware engineers get paid to do it right - first time :-)
>
What I've (or my company) made a killing on is fixing or rewriting the
software that supposedly top SW houses write.
Quote an example, to fill a German contract won by TRW, they recruited
off of the streets in CA people who had no experience at all and put
them on a 4 week course before being shipped to D-land.
Oh boy what a mess.
One guy who I would drink with was training to be a minister of the
church when he was recruited. He was one of the only ones who stayed
behind when TRW bailed out. He was also one of the only Americans who
would keep up with the amount Europeans drink.
Mick Whittingham
Lewis <mel...@defaid.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <oKOEFYAL...@mjwc.demon.co.uk>,
> Mick Whittingham <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> BUT you could be right I always open to being corrected. The max I pay
>> for software design, in England for long term contracts is 78 an hour,
>> for short term (less than 2 months) the max is 165 an hour, but there
>> are additional hotel perks for the short term work.
>
>Similar contract rates I would charge as a bastard accountant.
>Unfortunately as a mere employee I didn't get that as salary. When I went
>back to college, with the agreement of my old employer I did a contract at
>no where near those rates but still managed to earn in 6 hours what was my
>weekly earnings as an employee. It paid my way through my MSc.
>
>Melanie
It's out there if you want to do it but to charge high rates so that I
can pay those hourly rates mean the guys have to be good.
What p*ssed me off in the end doing it myself, was you were always
called in when there SW went wrong. Sh*t software written by people with
alternative agendas, ie 'if I make it complicated enough they think I'm
clever and they won't take my job away'.
The SW I've dumped, some of which did work but was not annotated
correctly or fully, was enormous. But often it was quicker to include
extra SW in the re-write just so you knew what was going on so that your
SW was update-able and fixable if it did go wrong.
Wingeing permies who don't know what a full days work is, who complain
at you being there, try to hinder you when your asking for information.
Always arrive before the boss and leave after him. No bloody work done
between though.
Ops rant over.
Wolf
> On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:59:14 +0000, Mick Whittingham
> <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >B888888 B888 it the largest collection of Amdahl Crays (sp) anywhere in
> >the world, all talking to each other in one big net. It is in England at
> >a place called g-C_h-Q.
>
> When I was working in the removals trade
... as a box van.
--
Wolf. Rover V8 3500cc automatic "Vampire" trike [pending] : ICQ 54520747
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Bastard Bear
>
> Windy <wi...@windfalls.net> wrote in message news:i8e6as874rkj8cv56...@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:59:14 +0000, Mick Whittingham
> > <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >B888888 B888 it the largest collection of Amdahl Crays (sp) anywhere in
> > >the world, all talking to each other in one big net. It is in England at
> > >a place called g-C_h-Q.
> >
> > When I was working in the removals trade
>
> ... as a box van.
I always assumed she was some form of packing ...
.. like bubble wrap, but for cookers, refrigerators, etc :-)=
--
Bastard Bear
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Bears
TART#1 UKRMHRC#8 GHPOTHUF#4 HB#2 TCP#1a DIAABTCOD#4 ZX-9R
"This week, I are been mostly Giving It Rhubarb"
Kira Brown
> Kira Brown <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> wrote in message
> news:B4C8BA2E.54AF%ki...@linuxgrrls.org...
>
> : [hospital]
> Yeow- what for, an accident (must have been serious)?
Er, correction of a birth defect, actually. (Actually, the same surgeon and
ward as Molly was in three weeks earlier... surgery just a touch different
though. If you want to feel really depressed, have a look at www.isna.org
and see how fucked up *I* was...)
kira.
Wolf
> Wolf wrote:
> >
> > Windy <wi...@windfalls.net> wrote in message news:i8e6as874rkj8cv56...@4ax.com...
> > > On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:59:14 +0000, Mick Whittingham
> > > <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > >B888888 B888 it the largest collection of Amdahl Crays (sp) anywhere in
> > > >the world, all talking to each other in one big net. It is in England at
> > > >a place called g-C_h-Q.
> > >
> > > When I was working in the removals trade
> >
> > ... as a box van.
>
> I always assumed she was some form of packing ...
>
> .. like bubble wrap, but for cookers, refrigerators, etc :-)=
More like those small polystyrene bits ...
... loads of it, and damned annoying ...
... spilling out all over the place ...
... when you're trying to get in the box.
Kira Brown
Long, depressing, and somewhat selfcentred, so ignore it if you will:
In article ugLo4.2662$Tc.1...@typhoon-la.pbi.net, Craig Oakland
dota...@removethisbit.email.com wrote:
> Kira Brown <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> wrote in message
> news:B4C913DB.55B0%ki...@linuxgrrls.org... : If you want to feel really
> depressed, have a look at www.isna.org : and see how fucked up *I* was...)
> Which particularly? if you don't mind telling...
It's hard to say. We only had the aftermath to look at- since the doctors
invoved had carefully destroyed all the records of the surgery I was
subjected to in the first 24 hours of my life. Neither were my parents
consulted. Apparently they do this to stop it from prejudicing the child in
later life... pah!
From the looks of the scars, now thankfully gone :-), the Man in Brighton
In my case I was whisked away from my mother and I only reappeared 24 hours
later in an intensive care baby unit having had a blood transfusion and on a
ventilator. The notes had disappeared from the file and the doctors were
evasive, according to my mum's diary...
Yes, I am bitter about this. It's wasted a hell of a lot of my time.
> unchecked (wasn't this supposed to be science[2]?)
What happened to peer review?
> as some psychiatrist fucked up on hubris and ego kept telling the academic
> community how great the subject was doing- which was in fact the baldest of
> bald-faced lies.
...because the subject was screwed up totally. Glad to see he's doing
better now, though. As am I :-)
Okay, so we've got a couple of TS types, there's me (I'm IS *and* TS, if
such a thing is possible, since I have 'male' on my birth cert)... any other
variants on transgender we can fit in?
kira.
Melanie Rhianna Lewis
Kira Brown <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes:
> I know that feeling. I've been sat here all day trying to decode some
> software I wrote just before Christmas, while I was in hospital and full of
> painkillers... morphine does funny things to C code, and I cannot remember
> *any* of it.
>
> Will someone please tell me why I did all this indexed register access in
> this specific order? and why if I change the order it blows up? when the
> data sheet says there's no dependency between *any* of them?
Don't complain. It works. I'm still trying to figure some code I wrote
while at the worst of my illness [1] a couple of days ago. I once wrote a
dissassembler in assembler while suffering with sever food poisoning and a
high fever. I never did fully work out how I managed it!
Melanie
[1] Yes boys and girls Melanie has been ill all week with a nasty virus.
This may explain her performance on Saturday night. Something she has
never ever done before on the night (The throwing up not the getting
rediculously trashed). I'm usually ill well in to the following day.
Melanie Rhianna Lewis
Kira Brown <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes:
> I must have had *some* androgens chucked at me during gestation,
> though, or I'd not have ended up inbetweeny, but as the isna page explains,
> there are other places these can come from, including the mother.
Quite possibly. My Mum has always been poorly all of her life due to been
a pretty sever asthma sufferer amoung other things. Her personal hormone
balance has been screwed by all the drugs she takes.
I find it fairly significant that middle sister had to have surgery to
conceive and even then it was a shock. And that younger sister hasn't had
a period since her teens (even then intermittently) and is now prescribed
a pill which is essentially 30ug of Oestrogen together with 40mg of
cyprotone acetate. Sounds familiar? These are higher doses than I'm on.
(Actually I'm not on androgen blockers).
> All of which explains why I have joint and bone deformities and a nasty case
> of osteoporosis- thankfully being reversed by some heavy duty HRT as we
> speak... and the fact that since I started said HRT in 1998 I've been
> having a crack at an adult puberty (since I didn't have one when I was 12,
> that is). It's great, I'm actually mature enough to behave myself in pubs
> and I *do* want to go out, and I *do* have the money to do it. When I'm not
> paying surgeons, that is. Which I will be doing for a large portion of the
> next decade.
I can sympathise. My knees are completely buggered [2] and have been
since my teens and my jaw is not right either. I have a pretty good
feeling that it will be shown that there is no such thing as a 'real' TS.
It's all variations on the IS theme.
> Okay, so we've got a couple of TS types, there's me (I'm IS *and* TS, if
> such a thing is possible, since I have 'male' on my birth cert)... any other
> variants on transgender we can fit in?
More than a couple of TS types here [1]. I blame it all on the NDs.
Melanie
[1] On face value. I, for one, have never bothered to do the research.
I'd still have the same shit etc, but it has always intregued me that
combined with the above info that I never really needed androgen blockers
and developed so well with such a low does of hormones in the early
stages.
[2] Hence my blimp like shape. I would really like to use excercise and
burn it off my knees are screwed after walking the dog. [3] [4] Swiming
is good but it's too damn cold at the North Bristol Baths in winter.
[3] This is so frustrating to someone who ran down Ben Nevis as a young
thing.
[4] ObBike: It also precludes me from riding a sports bike as I'd be
crippled by the end of the ride. Even DAS was a trial because of my
height and my knees and a GS500.
Kira Brown
dota...@removethisbit.email.com wrote:
> Kira Brown wrote in message
> : ...because the subject was screwed up totally. Glad to see he's doing
> : better now, though. As am I :-)
>
> Will hoist a few to you come Fiday night cheers!
Bah, now you all know the secrets of my Murky Past. Well, some of them,
anyway.
kira.
Kira Brown
mel...@defaid.demon.co.uk wrote:
> In article <B4C8BA2E.54AF%ki...@linuxgrrls.org>,
> Kira Brown <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes:
>
>> I know that feeling. I've been sat here all day trying to decode some
>> software I wrote just before Christmas, while I was in hospital and full of
>> painkillers... morphine does funny things to C code, and I cannot remember
>> *any* of it.
>>
>> Will someone please tell me why I did all this
>
> Don't complain. It works.
Yes, but I need to change the behaviour... Why'd I be trying to modify it if
it was right, eh?
Hey ho. It's all going in a big plastic box until Monday at the earliest...
> I'm still trying to figure some code I wrote
> while at the worst of my illness [1] a couple of days ago.
I'm prepared to bet I was more spaced when I wrote this indexed register
bumfoolery than you were when you wrote whatever it was you wrote...
kira.
Melanie Rhianna Lewis
"Craig Oakland" <dota...@removethisbit.email.com> writes:
> [1] the (ahem) good Dr.s' supposition being that sex is determined by
> nurture not nature, a tragically mistaken diagnosis in this case.
Money and Green - To this day their paper on nurture vs nature is still
used as valid research despite how wrongly they got it. And guess who was
head of Charring Cross Gender Identity Clinic and still works there. Yes,
Dr Richard Green!
Now you know why I saw a private psych!
Melanie
Melanie Rhianna Lewis
Kira Brown <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes:
> Yes, but I need to change the behaviour... Why'd I be trying to modify it if
> it was right, eh?
Fair comment.
> I'm prepared to bet I was more spaced when I wrote this indexed register
> bumfoolery than you were when you wrote whatever it was you wrote...
Quite probably. I was with the fairies at that point of my recovery.
That probably was because I had a morphene on demand machine and I
demanded it big time.
Melanie Rhianna Lewis
Mick Whittingham <Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk> writes:
> The SW I've dumped, some of which did work but was not annotated
> correctly or fully, was enormous. But often it was quicker to include
> extra SW in the re-write just so you knew what was going on so that your
> SW was update-able and fixable if it did go wrong.
When I write a software component it is a component which will stands
alone and can be built alone or with appropriate libraries. I needed to
include a component from a colleague who doesn't seem to understand the
objectives of OO. I need the whole fecking software tree just to compile
the one component. On top of which the tree is broken so I can't build
all the bits I want to build. I've had to do wrapper classes just to be
able to use some of the code. Its a bloody nightmare.
Molly Fletcher
Kira Brown <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes:
> I know that feeling. I've been sat here all day trying to decode some
> software I wrote just before Christmas, while I was in hospital and full of
> painkillers... morphine does funny things to C code, and I cannot remember
> *any* of it.
They gave you morphine? Lucky cow. I didn't get any of that. ;-(
--
============================================================================
Molly Fletcher mo...@ee.bath.ac.uk
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~eesmf
============================================================================
Mick Whittingham
<Ant...@Netscape.net> writes
>Mick Whittingham wrote:
>>
>> Burning Bush is a herb found is England that was
>> traditionally used (and still is in parts) to
>> induce a miscarriage up to about 3 months.
>>
>> One wonders who chooses the names and why.
>
>I could only guess that it's probably something
>close to what it felt like.
>
>I'll get me coat.
>
You mean you *know* their whole system is an abortion.
Mick Whittingham
>Mi...@mjwc.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
>> In article <B4C86349.540B%ki...@linuxgrrls.org>, Kira Brown
>> <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes
>
>Will someone please tell me why I did all this indexed register access in
>this specific order? and why if I change the order it blows up? when the
>data sheet says there's no dependency between *any* of them?
>
>
Try working in HAL-S, NASA once preferred code.
I believe it is designed to make it impossible for more than one person
to work on a project at any one time.
Scenario:
Your program ceases to function any more, it is thousands of lines of
code long. The integration team want to power up the SpaceLab and can't.
You have to go round to 30 odd people and find out who has re-compiled
their work since yours stopped working. Then ask them what they did.
Because if any declared store has its attributes changed the compiler
changes the attributes of anything that, that program interfaces with.
Suddenly all your local variable are global and every bastard in the
other million lines is changing your data.
But as IBM was responsible for it this, so it was not supposed to
happen, so they wouldn't do anything about it.
In truth they new the problem and was part of a later fix.
A guy called Mick Head solved the problem by wiping out the largest IBM
system at Lemwerder from a remote terminal so that they *had* to load
the new operating system and new HAL-S compiler.
Mick Whittingham
<ki...@linuxgrrls.org> writes
>
>Long, depressing, and somewhat selfcentred, so ignore it if you will:
>
>dota...@removethisbit.email.com wrote:
>
>> Kira Brown <ki...@linuxgrrls.org> wrote in message
>> news:B4C913DB.55B0%ki...@linuxgrrls.org... : If you want to feel really
>> depressed, have a look at www.isna.org : and see how fucked up *I* was...)
>> Which particularly? if you don't mind telling...
>
>
>
>You'd be shocked. Really. One in fifty thousand births (estimated; there
>are no hard figures on this) in this country receives surgery for some form
>of intersex condition and only about a tenth of this with the knowledge
>(never mind the consent) of the parents.
>
While working at MBB's Space division (Near Munich cica 1980) I was
living in Oberpfafenhoffen (sp). I found out that the main clinic there
was used by the NAZIs to conduct experiments on sex transplants/changes
organ transplants etc. All on children and young adults from the local
concentration camp.
When the Americans over ran the place they kept the clinic open for a
further 18 months to enable the 'doctors' to complete their work and so
American doctors could study the results.
Alex Ferrier
>
> What p*ssed me off in the end doing it myself, was you were always
> called in when there SW went wrong. Sh*t software written by people with
> alternative agendas, ie 'if I make it complicated enough they think I'm
> clever and they won't take my job away'.
>
>
<Rant back on>
The number of times I've had to go on a site and interpret
some of this shit is unbelievable. Just because some smart
arsed git has coded what he considers to be a master piece
of elegant code (which is in fact a load of unintelligble
crap which at best performs to spec. in a dubious manner).
I get to spend days attempting to fix said code, justifying
the amount of time spent to a manager who has swallowed
hook line and sinker the original sinners lies, and have
to cope with said perpetrator's nose which is now out of
joint.
Me, if I get my way? I like it simple. If I can't come back
to it in a couple of months and get the gist of it from the
comments and structure of the code it aint no good.
(Actually more like 1 day in my case, memory like a sieve y'see)
As a contractor I'm used to, and can take criticism, I don't like
it but I understand the need. After all it's part of the job I
get paid for. However some of the prissy little prima donna
permies (mostly) are just absofuckinglutely unbelievable.
Once when working for a company I was in a code review meeting
with some senior managers and a group of APs. One AP in particular
was laying into everyone elses code with gusto, not even attempting
to be tactful about it. The moment his code was under discussion he
got very aggresive and after suggestions he need to do a bit of
rework on a part of it. He threw a huge wobbler, starting shouting
and then flounced out of the room in a huff. The managers reaction?
"Oh it's only Roy, he'll calm down in a bit. Besides he is one of
our best people". Ten minutes later he came back into the meeting
and resumed torpedoing everyone elses work again. No one brought
up the subject of his code again and we were obliged to use his
code with it's little 'inconsistencies' and lack of adherence
to the spec. Using his 'modified' interfaces, data types etc.
Personally I'd have given the fucker a written warning regarding
his unacceptable behaviour in the work place.
</R>
Right I'm off for a blat round mid Wales, I think it's Gixer time :->>>
--
Alex
GSXR750wv | R1150GS | Jeep Cherokee 4.0 Ltd SE
DIAABTCOD#3
Molly Fletcher
mel...@defaid.demon.co.uk (Melanie Rhianna Lewis) writes:
>> I'm prepared to bet I was more spaced when I wrote this indexed register
>> bumfoolery than you were when you wrote whatever it was you wrote...
>
> Quite probably. I was with the fairies at that point of my recovery.
> That probably was because I had a morphene on demand machine and I
> demanded it big time.
'snot fair. Everyone else got morphine how come I didn't get any?
Alex Ferrier
> Melanie Rhianna Lewis writes:
>
> > Quite probably. I was with the fairies at that point of my recovery.
> > That probably was because I had a morphene on demand machine and I
> > demanded it big time.
>
> 'snot fair. Everyone else got morphine how come I didn't get any?
>
Morphine on demand's kewl. I had it when they cut my big toe off :-)
Richard Smith
>
>[2] Hence my blimp like shape. I would really like to use excercise and
>burn it off my knees are screwed after walking the dog. [3] [4] Swiming
>is good but it's too damn cold at the North Bristol Baths in winter.
clean and warm, even in winter.
--
Richard Smith GSX550ES "The Ould Sod" DIAABTCOD#2
Melanie Rhianna Lewis
"Alex Ferrier" <al...@alex-f.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Morphine on demand's kewl. I had it when they cut my big toe off :-)
It's just posts like this which remind me why I love this group!
Mick Whittingham
<mel...@defaid.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <950269188.5788.0...@news.demon.co.uk>,
> "Alex Ferrier" <al...@alex-f.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> Morphine on demand's kewl. I had it when they cut my big toe off :-)
>
>It's just posts like this which remind me why I love this group!
>
I tend to use it as therapy, keeps you in touch with reality what ever
that is.
Windy
<Wo...@The-Clubhouse.Co.Uk> wrote:
>Windy <wi...@windfalls.net> wrote in message news:i8e6as874rkj8cv56...@4ax.com...
>>
>> When I was working in the removals trade
>
>... as a box van.
A curtain sider acherly.
--
~*~*~*~* W I N D Y *~*~*~*~
NGG#13-BOCW#1-BOG#0-COC#1-TCP#4-TGH-HRHTart-DOGMUK
Zephyr 1100 (Mr Al)
FIND THE UKRM FAQ at
http://www.windfalls.u-net.com/ukrm/ukrmfaq1.html
Windy
(Molly Fletcher) wrote:
>Everyone else got morphine how come I didn't get any?
You can have my share.
I'm allergic to the bloody stuff. :o/
dog
> When I write a software component it is a component which will stands
> alone and can be built alone or with appropriate libraries. I needed to
> include a component from a colleague who doesn't seem to understand the
> objectives of OO. I need the whole fecking software tree just to compile
> the one component. On top of which the tree is broken so I can't build
> all the bits I want to build. I've had to do wrapper classes just to be
> able to use some of the code. Its a bloody nightmare.
pull a newbie. tell them it's shit and doesn't work, and you want it to work
by last tuesday.
--
dog
zx7r-p4 bmf#10572 nt#270825982g
"si on monte là-dessus, on se tue!" "génial!"
coming_ba...@my-deja.com
"Alex Ferrier" <al...@alex-f.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Mick Whittingham wrote:
> >
> > What p*ssed me off in the end doing it myself, was you were always
> > called in when there SW went wrong. Sh*t software written by people
with
> > alternative agendas, ie 'if I make it complicated enough they think
I'm
> > clever and they won't take my job away'.
> >
> >
> > Ops rant over.
>
> <Rant back on>
>
>
> </R>
>
< sole permi response >
'ckin ell, I'm surprised any of you contractors can actually get your
heads through the door....
I've worked with some good scu^H^H^H contractors, and I've worked with
some bad ones, who think that as long as they document what they're
doing, they can do shit.
And they usually do.
What's the point of getting in a ripoff contractor in in the first place
when you have to rewrite most of his code anyway, as you find bits in
there that say "temp comment out this code, doesn't work in sim, fix it
later"...
</s. p. r.>
--
H.J.
aka CBAY.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Wolf
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:32:29 -0000, "Wolf"
> <Wo...@The-Clubhouse.Co.Uk> wrote:
>
> >Windy <wi...@windfalls.net> wrote in message news:i8e6as874rkj8cv56...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> When I was working in the removals trade
> >
> >... as a box van.
>
> A curtain sider acherly.
Flaps?
Wolf
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:15:05 +0100, mo...@eepc-mf.bath.ac.uk
> (Molly Fletcher) wrote:
>
> >Everyone else got morphine how come I didn't get any?
>
> You can have my share.
And mine.