wild garlic overdose? (long)
old dobbin
sight of one who's muzzle and chin that was rather 'orangey' in colour.
He is a copper chestnut gelding with flaxen mane and tail white stripe
and a pink nose. The other two, a liver chestnut gelding with flaxen
mane and tail, white stripe and pink nose and a completely chestnut TB
mare with black nose, showed no such symptoms. On closer inspection I
saw a single drip of blood from each nostril and the nose and muzzle
area was covered in weepy 'pustules' exuding a small amount of clear
fluid. There was no sign of injury or distress/pain, and he was alert
and keen for apple and carrot as usual. Puzzled , I cleaned him up and
put some 'savlon' on the affected areas (as that was all I had with me)
and decided to check him again at 10-30pm. On visiting later, he was
his happy normal self and no sign of any blood so I administered some
more 'savlon'.
I have seen sunburn/windburn and 'rainburn' affect horses over the years
but this did not fit any of those causes....bourne out by their
environmental conditions, they had been in the field for two weeks with
plenty of shelter. Today when I arrived, I saw Rocky, the gelding in
question, standing and munching happily in the middle of a rough part of
the field, partly brambled with high coarse grass. I looked to see what
he was eating so avidly and found he was consuming a large quantity of
wild garlic...some of which he had pulled up root and all! The other
two seemingly ignored this 'delicacy' and had not apparently eaten any.
I reasoned that the garlic (in large amounts) was the cause of his
condition or at least a contributory factor somehow. Rocky's condition
had not worsened but neither had it eased, so this time it was cleaned
and 'dermisol' applied liberally. As a precaution I removed the
remaining garlic.
I'm awaiting the vet to call me back to discuss the matter, but I would
be most interested to know if anyone has had similar experiences with
horses and wild garlic?
My thoughts are:
1) he consumed so much that he overdosed on it, producing a direct
allergic or toxic reaction or;
2) somehow it has reacted indirectly and increased the photosensitivity
of the pink areas of his face to produce a sort of false 'sunburn' or
sensitivity to wind or rain or;
3) the extra salivation caused by the strong garlic is acidic and been
transferred to his muzzle and chin by 'licking of chops'! or;
4) acid rain!???
I'm really puzzled by this one, has anyone got any suggestions?
Thanks,
Mike
Janet Sanderson
I have a lot of wild garlic in one of our fields, it borders the edge of the
field, the horses do not get too close because of the electric fence line
but they have never been effected by it. I did however have a chestnut
gelding
with flaxen tail etc, and he had a similar problem with his muzzle - was
told it was "grass warts" it went away on its own.
I thought Garlic was supposed to be good for horses, I put it in
the chickens water to get rid of worms.
Janet
"old dobbin" <m.l...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:3CF7D988...@virgin.net...
Carol Lambe
from playing in field, if they exert themselves too much, or from stress.
More common in thin skinned types - v common with racehorses. Chestnuts do
seem to have thinner skin. I have had horses devour whole banks of wild
garlic and never had any adverse effects except a case of the huffs when the
stuff stopped growing.
Had a gelding once who bled under stress. That's all there is to it really,
and if you're not bottoming them out physically, you'll probably not notice
any difference in their performance. Try some probiotic feed - Equilibra
seems to calm down horses which are hard on themselves.
Good luck
Carol
MandieandPEE
donkey. No idea why only donkeys set him off but he would turn himself
completely inside out, get totally stressed and then have a nose bleed. Didnt
help that he was white. Looked far worse with red splodges. Five minutes down
the road and he was always back to his usual chilled self.
Mandie
Fiona
Janet Sanderson wrote
> I thought Garlic was supposed to be good for horses,
Me too, but I don't know about huge quantities.
> I put it in the chickens water to get rid of worms.
Doesn't it flavour the eggs? We use Ivermectin for ours, but you can't eat
the eggs for a few days after unless you want to be wormed!
Fiona
Sue Taylor
Wild parsnip can cause this problem. It has the opposite effect to suntan
lotion and causes sunburn if you brush up against it and then expose
yourself to sunlight. It is hog weed-like with a red/green hairy stalk.
Sue
"Fiona" <fiona.tyson@@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:ii8L8.50260$wd3.8...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Marie Fischer
> went to the field to see my three last evening and was greeted by
> the sight of one who's muzzle and chin that was rather 'orangey' in
> colour. He is a copper chestnut gelding with flaxen mane and tail
> white stripe and a pink nose. The other two, a liver chestnut
> gelding with flaxen mane and tail, white stripe and pink nose and a
> completely chestnut TB mare with black nose, showed no such
> symptoms. On closer inspection I saw a single drip of blood from
> each nostril and the nose and muzzle area was covered in weepy
> 'pustules' exuding a small amount of clear fluid. There was no
> sign of injury or distress/pain, and he was alert and keen for
> apple and carrot as usual.
> if anyone has had similar experiences with horses and wild
> garlic?
no experiences, but some stuff i found:
http://ags.frycomm.com/handouts/2002/docs/alt-med.pdf:
garlic: spontaneous bleeding with heavy use.
http://www.sacredcircle2k.com/adversreaceh.html:
Garlic - Signs and Symptoms: Contact dermatitis,
gastrointestinal upset, nausea, increased number
of white blood cells as determined by lab studies,
precipitous blood pressure drop (faintness, cold
sweat, paleness, rapid pulse), skin eruptions.
http://www.herbmed.org/Herbs/Herb140.htm
lists some articles about contact dermatitis/skin
problems caused by garlic (look under Adverse
Effects & Toxicity).
there is/was some discussion whether garlic is
poisonous in the same way as onions (causing
anemia), but to my knowledge it was never proved.
a good article about this is:
http://www.horseandfarmmagazine.com/garlic-toxic.html
--
marie
old dobbin
one....secondly an update on the situation....
after having removed all the wild garlic....just in case it was the
problem...and after consultation with my vet who confirmed it was an
allergic reaction, i continued with the cream. however...the problem
continued and got worse.......speading as an angry 'rash' under his chin
and nearly halfway up his nose.......under his white hair. i had
decided that the drops of blood were due to a burst blood vessel....the
farmer next door had put a load of calves in the field next to my horses
but i hadn't seen them, as, when i was there they were over a rise and
out of sight. rocky loves cows (!) and goes mad when they are in the
field next to him...he loves to put his head over the fence ...and lets
the cows lick his nose...and then gets all exited and gallops round. we
wondered if the cows had aggravated his condition by their licking.
anyway i decided that it would be best to remove rocky to another field
altogether and brought him back nearer home. his condition continued to
worsen despite regular applications of cream, the 'rash' continued to
increase in size.....forming very thick scabs which cme off as the cream
was applied, leaving raw flesh exposed. there was no real weeds in the
field i had put him or any cows adjacent and i was even more puzzled.
a livery i have happened to have her vet call and i decided to ask him
to have a look. he confirmed it certainly was an allergic reaction,
most likely to some plant toxin. i asked him if he could
advise/prescribe any treatment..so he gave rocky a cortisone injection
and gave me some hydro cortisone cream to apply twice a day...since then
rocky's condition has slowly started to improve. the vet came and had a
look at the field rocky had been in and we noticed that willow...the
other gelding with a little bit of pink nose, had just started to show
slight signs of the same affliction! on close inspection of the field
we noticed that the horses had pushed into bushes and had consumed large
amounts of cow parsley.....every plant had been stripped. the vet
concluded that this was the most likely cause, certainly i had never
seen any reaction to meadow sweet which the horses eat with relish every
year. once again the remaining cow parsley was eradicated, quite why
they're eating it is a mystery...theres plenty of good grazing in the
field...they've never touched it before!
so.....it would seem that the cows caused rocky to burst a blood vessel
which was coincidental with an allergic reaction to a plant
toxin.....most probably cow parsley consumed in large quantities....the
wild garlic was a red herring.....the vet/s both said it would have only
done them good.......as my vet said..in old fashioned terms..'a good
physic!'
lastly..does anyone know of a good site that has good pictures and
descriptions of british weeds? i've only found american sites so far.
old dobbin
Mike
Sue Rogers
> amounts of cow parsley.....every plant had been stripped.
This plant group (cow parsley, hogweed, giant hogweed) does tend to
contain skin irritants which work in conjunction with sun and cause
blistering effect to humans as well as horses.
Children use the hollow stems in late summer (when they're dried/gone to
seed) as peashooters but can get blisters around their mouths if the
stems are still sappy and not completely dried.
Hemlock is the deadliest one of the group as that contains a poison
which can be fatal to humans and animal.
Giant hogweed is always advertised as the worst skin irritant but cow
parsley is just as bad according to one website I looked at.
If you get a plant book, they're all fairly similar, differences being
subtle in terms of leaf shape, plant height, stem colour, floret and
seed shape. I think wild carrot, henbane are two others of similar
shape and possibly same family.