Rivnut bottle mount seized
Mark
I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to loosen
the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a couple of
weeks ago and now it's seized!
Ideas?!
Cheers,
Mark
Paul - xxx
Drill, angle grinder, welder ... I guess a lot depends on how much of the
rivnut is available.
--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
sothach
Drill + easyout would be my choice. Get a good quality new bit, HSS
or Cobalt if its a SS screw, as large as possible, centre-punch as
accurately as possible, lash some grease on it and drill slowly and
accurately. Use the correct sized easyout for the hole and should pop
out a treat.
Copper-grease is a good idea when reassembling, especially for steel
screw in an ally thread.
David Martin
It will just spin the rivnut.
You need to try something smart first like superglue or epoxy to fix
the rivnut in place. Then you have a fighting chance of being able to
get some purchase on the bolt.
So:
1. glue around the rivnut. superglue runs well so may be the one of
choice as it will flow into the gap between the rivnut and frame.
2. When this has set, penetrating oil is your friend. leave to soak in.
3. now you have a fighting chance of getting th ebolt out.
..d
jtaylor
"sothach" <philli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132922464.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
This won't work if the rivnut is loose on the hole in the frame - it'll just
spin.
If the bolt _not_ stainless, you might be able to build a dam out of wax and
dissolve the bolt with nitic acid. This is not a procedure for the faint of
heart or unsteady hands. HNO3 is bad stuff - but it won't attack aluminium.
It _will_ attack lots of other things, including flesh.
Myself, I'd use a good penetrating oil and some heat.
Well, no,actually; I wouldn't have got an aluminium frame to begin with....
David Martin
jtaylor wrote:
> If the bolt _not_ stainless, you might be able to build a dam out of wax and
> dissolve the bolt with nitic acid. This is not a procedure for the faint of
> heart or unsteady hands. HNO3 is bad stuff - but it won't attack aluminium.
oxidising layer on the Alu, such as mercury salts.
> It _will_ attack lots of other things, including flesh.
Very definitely. Not something to be played with lightly (if at all).
> Myself, I'd use a good penetrating oil and some heat.
>
> Well, no,actually; I wouldn't have got an aluminium frame to begin with....
"If I were going there I wouldn't start from here".
..d
sothach
> It will just spin the rivnut.
> You need to try something smart first like superglue or epoxy to fix
> the rivnut in place. Then you have a fighting chance of being able to
> get some purchase on the bolt.
>
> So:
> 1. glue around the rivnut. superglue runs well so may be the one of
> choice as it will flow into the gap between the rivnut and frame.
Is superglue super enough for that kind of torque? I think I'd get one
of the band-on bottle cage holders at this stage...
Peter B
"Mark" <ma...@JUNKTHISBITmir.stevecole.org> wrote in message
news:slrndodvjs...@mir.stevecole.org...
Any chance you could fit two Jubilee clips around the downtube either side
of the seized bolt and close enough together to sit on the rivnuts face?
(oo, err missus)
This may apply sufficient force to grip the rivnut while you try and remove
the bolt wuth pliers or a screw extractor.
--
Pete
http://uk.geocities.com/pet...@btinternet.com/Stuff
John Wilton
If the rivnut is aluminium then heating the assembly may crack the
rivnut-bolt interface. The problem is getting enough heat into it to let
the differential thermal expansion do its job without damaging the paint etc
John
B.G. Finlay
: "If I were going there I wouldn't start from here".
: ..d
Completely off-topic ... were you in Tescos (Kingsway) last night at
about 10pm? Wasn't sure if it was you so didn't say 'hi' incase I
looked even more of a tit that usual.
Blair
Matt B
news:slrndodvjs...@mir.stevecole.org...
Depends what the desired end result is, given that the rivnut is now,
presumably, useless, even with the bolt out.
1. Cosmetic treatment to remove usightly bolt:
a. Saw/grid/file away the protruding part.
b. Fill/paint/tape over to conceal.
or
2. Removal of rivnut completely:
a. Saw/grind/file down to a reasonably flat and square surface just proud
of the frame.
b. Tightly apply strong sticky tape (duct tape or similar) and ensure it
is well stuck around the rivnut, rubbing round firmly with thumbnail, or
whatever.
c. Carefully centre-punch the centre of the stump.
d. Drill a pilot hole into the bolt, about 1/4 inch deep, starting with a
small bit, and then stepping up in increments up to a bit about the same
size as the bolt outside diameter, using sharp bits, and a fast drill, and
applying light pressure to minimize torque on the rivnut.
e. If you think you can reuse the rivnut you'll now need to pick out
what's left of the bolt thread.
otherwise...
f. Using a bit about the same diameter as the flange of the rivnut
carfully countersink the hole until the flange of the rivnut comes off - and
the body of the rivnut, with what's left of the bolt, falls dutifully inside
the frame :-)
--
Matt B
John Everett
I recently had this very same problem on an aluminium-framed Vitus
992. I addressed it by grinding the head off the bolt, allowing me to
remove the bottle cage. With the cage out of the way I could hold the
rivnut with a small Vise-Grip (mole wrench?) and back what was left of
the bolt out with a pair of pliers.
Chances are the problem isn't really that the bolt is seized, but that
the rivnut is loose.
jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3
John Everett
<ma...@JUNKTHISBITmir.stevecole.org> wrote:
Oh yes...follow-up to my previous post:
Then off to the local Cannondale dealer who should have a rivnut tool
to reset the loose rivnut.
Simon Brooke
('notchec...@hotmail.com') wrote:
Dear man, this is a Cannondale, show some respect!
To start at the beginning: have you now knackered the rivnut so much it
has to come out anyway? If not, try degreasing the area thoroughly and
epoxying the rivnut in place, giving the epoxy plenty of time to cure,
and then /gently/ try the bolt again. This isn't particularly likely to
work but it's worth a try.
Failing that I would be trying the angle grinder, but /very/ carefully,
trying to take the top off the rivnut without touching the tube. A drill
isn't going to work as the rivnut will just rotate in the hole. You
REALLY do not want to touch the tube with an angle grinder!
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
See one nuclear war, you've seen them all.
John Everett
<si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>in message <3uoeg7F...@individual.net>, Paul - xxx
>('notchec...@hotmail.com') wrote:
>
>> Mark came up with the following;:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
>>> rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
>>> the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to
>>> loosen the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a
>>> couple of weeks ago and now it's seized!
>>>
>>> Ideas?!
>>
>> Drill, angle grinder, welder ... I guess a lot depends on how much of
>> the rivnut is available.
>
>Dear man, this is a Cannondale, show some respect!
>
>To start at the beginning: have you now knackered the rivnut so much it
>has to come out anyway? If not, try degreasing the area thoroughly and
>epoxying the rivnut in place, giving the epoxy plenty of time to cure,
>and then /gently/ try the bolt again. This isn't particularly likely to
>work but it's worth a try.
How do you know the rivnut is knackered? It's probably just loosened
in its hole. All you need to do (as I mentioned in a previous post to
this thread) is have it reset (tightened) using the appropriate tool.
Most C'dale dealers (at least here in the U.S.) have the tool.
I've found that (again, here in the U.S.) aircraft mechanics typically
also have rivnut tools. I've had a bottle cage rivnut reset at a local
FBO (Fixed Base Operator), the aircraft equivalent of an automobile
service station, found at one's local airport (aerodrome?).
Bottle cage screws are typical M5x0.8. This is so close to a 10-32
that in practice there's no real difference. The A&P (Airframe and
Powerplant mechanic) who tightened my loose bottle cage rivnut used a
10-32 mandrel. That was at least nine years ago and the rivnut is
still holding.
David Martin
Guilty as charged. Had to pick a few bits up on my way back from
Broughty Ferry. Bit of a cold biting wind.
..d
Alexander Rice
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:07:54 -0000, Mark
> <ma...@JUNKTHISBITmir.stevecole.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi
>>
>>I have an aluminium-framed Cannondale bike with a bolt seized into the
>>rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't grab
>>the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able to loosen
>>the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a couple of
>>weeks ago and now it's seized!
>
>
> Oh yes...follow-up to my previous post:
>
> Then off to the local Cannondale dealer who should have a rivnut tool
> to reset the loose rivnut.
You could actually do this yourself by screwing a nut onto an
appropriately sized bolt, dropping a washer on top and screwing it into
the rivnut. To tighten the rivnut all you do is unscrew the nut hard
against the rivnut whilst holding the bolt still.
Come to think of it if you've got some threads projecting out of the
rivnut already you might be able to tighten the rivnut then remove the
bolt afterwards.
Alex
Chris Gerhard
>>
>> Then off to the local Cannondale dealer who should have a rivnut tool
>> to reset the loose rivnut.
>
> You could actually do this yourself by screwing a nut onto an
> appropriately sized bolt, dropping a washer on top and screwing it into
> the rivnut. To tighten the rivnut all you do is unscrew the nut hard
> against the rivnut whilst holding the bolt still.
>
Thank you Alex, I've just tightened the rivnut on My Pricipia using this
technique.
--chris
Simon Brooke
('jeve...@earthlink.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net') wrote:
>>Dear man, this is a Cannondale, show some respect!
>>
>>To start at the beginning: have you now knackered the rivnut so much it
>>has to come out anyway? If not, try degreasing the area thoroughly and
>>epoxying the rivnut in place, giving the epoxy plenty of time to cure,
>>and then gently try the bolt again. This isn't particularly likely to
>>work but it's worth a try.
>
> How do you know the rivnut is knackered? It's probably just loosened
> in its hole. All you need to do (as I mentioned in a previous post to
> this thread) is have it reset (tightened) using the appropriate tool.
> Most C'dale dealers (at least here in the U.S.) have the tool.
Fair enough, but until he's got the bolt out of the rivnut he won't be
able to get a rivnut tool into it.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; making jokes about dyslexia isn't big, it isn't clever and
;; it isn't furry.
Mark
> in message <3uoeg7F...@individual.net>, Paul - xxx
> ('notchec...@hotmail.com') wrote:
>> Mark came up with the following;:
>>> the rivnut bottle mount, which itself is loose in the frame. I can't
>>> grab the rivnut securely enough with needle-nosed pliers to be able
>>> to loosen the now-mangled bolt. Argh! I only undid the bloody bolt a
>>> couple of weeks ago and now it's seized!
>>>
>>> Ideas?!
>>
>> Drill, angle grinder, welder ... I guess a lot depends on how much of
>> the rivnut is available.
>
> Dear man, this is a Cannondale, show some respect!
>
> To start at the beginning: have you now knackered the rivnut so much
> it has to come out anyway? If not, try degreasing the area thoroughly
> and epoxying the rivnut in place, giving the epoxy plenty of time to
> cure, and then /gently/ try the bolt again. This isn't particularly
> likely to work but it's worth a try.
It's not completely knackered -- I gave up on trying to hold it in place
and posted my original message before I fully buggered it up. However,
it's mildly chewed around the edges so a new one would look nice and
might stay seated for longer.
> Failing that I would be trying the angle grinder, but /very/
> carefully, trying to take the top off the rivnut without touching the
> tube. A drill isn't going to work as the rivnut will just rotate in
> the hole. You REALLY do not want to touch the tube with an angle
> grinder!
Yes, I can well imagine. My father's into making models and has a
variety of miniature grinder tools which might do the job in a more
controllable manner than a 11,000rpm Bosch monster. Luckily the rivnut
is loose enough to insert a sheet of something hard between the flange
and downtube to offer some protection.
My next worry is whether I'll be able to retrieve the rivnut from the
inside of the downtube, presumably via an opening to the BB shell or
headtube. I'll take out the BB (needs replacing anyway) and have a look
for a suitable hole.
In replies to other posts: I do know that you can tighten rivnut with a
nut, bolt and washer; I was trying to remove the bottle mount bolt in
order to do so. It worked like a charm on the seat tube mount.
Cheers,
Mark
Tony Raven
>
> Come to think of it if you've got some threads projecting out of the
> rivnut already you might be able to tighten the rivnut then remove the
> bolt afterwards.
>
Presumably if the bolt is still in the Rivnut as in the OP's case, you
can take the head off the bolt, thread the nut on from the top and then
hold the body of the bolt with mole grips or a slot cut in the end while
you tighten up the rivnut with the nut.
--
Tony
"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
Simon Brooke
('ma...@JUNKTHISBITmir.stevecole.org') wrote:
> My next worry is whether I'll be able to retrieve the rivnut from the
> inside of the downtube, presumably via an opening to the BB shell or
> headtube.
You will. This won't be a problem at all. It will just fall down into the
bottom bracket shell all by itself, once you've taken the top off it.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
The Conservative Party now has the support of a smaller proportion of
the electorate in Scotland than Sinn Fein have in Northern Ireland.
Mark
> Alexander Rice wrote:
>>
>> Come to think of it if you've got some threads projecting out of the
>> rivnut already you might be able to tighten the rivnut then remove
>> the bolt afterwards.
>
> Presumably if the bolt is still in the Rivnut as in the OP's case, you
> can take the head off the bolt, thread the nut on from the top and
> then hold the body of the bolt with mole grips or a slot cut in the
> end while you tighten up the rivnut with the nut.
There's not enough of the thread showing to be able to do this. I think
I'm going to take the bolt head off and grind/file away the lip so the
old rivnut drops into the tube then replace it with a new one.
Cheers all,
Mark