The Guidebook
Mark Ian Rainsley
I've been writing up my own river guide website. So far I've written
about 20 pages and various guff, and it's ready to go on the
net....once I figure FTP out. The only bit I need to write now is the
river guides themselves. I'll be able to include about 100 rivers
from my own experience, and hopefully people will add their own
knowledge (reading this, Mr Sladden?).
Below is an excerpt from the site. *PLEASE* READ THIS AND LET ME KNOW
WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS IDEA. WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE INCLUDED? HAS
SOMEONE ELSEWHERE DONE THIS ALREADY????? ANY SUGGESTIONS? ETC.
When complete, it'll lurk on www.guidebook.free-online.co.uk
Cheers, Mark R.
________________________________________________________________
Excerpt follows....
Erm...What is it?
It's an attempt at a Guidebook to UK Rivers, hopefully being
constantly updated.
Erm...Isn't it a bit shabby?
I admit, it isn't exactly a visual feast. But I'm working this all
out as I go along, bear with me.
If you want a professionally produced paddling website, head off to
Pork Kayaking (LINK) as they
seem to know what they're doing.
Erm...Aren't there loads of Guidebooks around already?
Yep...but they don't always cover everything (okay, excepting Chris
Sladden's 'Welsh Rivers'
Guide) , they get out of date quickly, and most unforgivably...they
cost money! I've put this
together as my paddling friends and I have often found it difficult
to get information on rivers
in many areas of the UK, despite the innumerable Guidebooks for sale
in the shops. Plenty of
the rivers in here ARE well documented, but hopefully this Guide will
be able to add the
'human touch'...people's own opinions and experiences of the various rivers.
Erm...Is the info here reliable?
No! Not in the slightest sense. Anything you read here is the
completely untrustworthy and
biased opinion of whoever wrote it. Inspect, inspect, inspect!!
Anyone who paddles rivers
relying completely on Guidebook descriptions will get what is coming,
anyway...
Erm...There isn't actually much here, is there?
Not yet, I do have a life you know. But you could make my life easier
by emailing your own
additions, comments or amendments. At some point I'll figure out how
to creat a 'Template'
for Guidebook submissions. Photos would also be appreciated if they
show the character of
the river or if they're just plain cool.
Otterman
You seem to be right on the mark. Access = Free & Free = Access.
For a great example of a structure for such a site check out Bill
Tuthill's California Creakin' site at:
http://reality.sgi.com/tut/
The map is particularly impressive, as is the index by Classification
(or Grade).
Peace
--
Lon Yarbrough
A.K.A. Otterman
http://www.jps.net/lon
home of "Otter: River Bliss Being"
"Every moment on the river, when all is well, is precious."
-- Charlie Walbridge
Matt Gillam
>net....once I figure FTP out. The only bit I need to write now is the
FTP is a doddle once you understand it, mail me & we'll talk about it to get
you started.
>Below is an excerpt from the site. *PLEASE* READ THIS AND LET ME KNOW
>WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS IDEA. WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE INCLUDED? HAS
>SOMEONE ELSEWHERE DONE THIS ALREADY????? ANY SUGGESTIONS? ETC.
Just a few quick comments (cos I've got to go to work).
1. Excellent idea, I've been thinking about this for sometime too.
2. Do not underestimate the amount of work involved and do not rush in.
Every minute thinking time will save you 10 minutes work time.
3. My approach to this would be to first build an index of rivers without
too much detail and publish that, so it gives people keywords to start
searching on. Then you could link these to resources across the net. Most of
the data we want is already out there somewhere, it's finding it that is the
tricky bit. Then add in your comments and reviews as supplements. This also
saves reinventing the wheel eg noone is going to do a better job than Chris
has already done on the Welsh Rivers so they may as well buy the book. What
is needed is a searchable index of rivers so folks have start point for the
'where can I go this weekend' questions with basic info like location,
grades, alternatives.
------
Matt G
Check Out My Whitewater Kayak Stats Page - What are people saying about your
boat?
http://www.interestingtimes.net/paddle/kayak_stats.htm
Jerry Murland
would be great to have a website that contains up-to-the-minute info about
rivers from paddlers who are actually out there paddling the stuff
eg....'the gorge in the Rawthey is blocked by a sodding great tree....'
A lot of work though, is there any way of getting the rest of us to help
with this project?
Jerry Murland
Matt Gillam wrote in message ...
Mark Ian Rainsley
from Mark Ian Rainsley <markra...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> I've been writing up my own river guide website.
Okay, it's now up and running...I THINK.
All that is there so far is about 25 pages of various guff, and only
one river guide.'.of the Moriston, as that's been discussed this week.
Can u please try it and see if it is working for me?
www.guidebook.free-online.co.uk
If it is, any comments welcome....
--
Mark Rainsley, Southbourne, UK
'I'd begun to distinguish a plain sheep from a pretty one....'
Brian Wilson, 'Blazing Paddles'.
Mark Ian Rainsley
from "Jerry Murland" <mur...@clara.net> contains these words:
> A lot of work though, is there any way of getting the rest of us to help
> with this project?
> Jerry Murland
Be careful what you wish for....but yes, PLEEZ SEND ME STUFF!
Anything will do, it'll make this thing become useable so much faster.
Below are the some of guidelines for contributions that I've put on
the site so far....
___________________________________________________________________________
It's up to you how what format you send me info in, but here are some
SUGGESTIONS to make my
life easier.
Indicate whether you wish to be credited for this info
If so, do you want your email address/ website etc. included?
Indicate whether you wish the info to go in AS YOU HAVE WRITTEN IT
Try to cover as many of the following things as possible,
ideally in this order...
NAME OF RIVER
REGION
PUT-INS/ TAKE-OUT OF SECTION DESCRIBED
APPROX LENGTH/ TIME NEEDED
ANY ACCESS CONSIDERATIONS YOU ARE AWARE OF
WATER LEVEL INDICATORS
GRADING (AT DIFFERENT LEVELS, IF YOU KNOW)
MAJOR HAZARDS/ FALLS
GENERAL DESCRIPTION
PERSONAL EXPERIENCES OF THE RIVER (TALL STORIES WELCOME!)
ANYTHING ELSE??
Of course, PHOTOS to back up your info would be just splendid.
HOPEFULLY, I will figure out how to produce a fancy Template for
these contributions. But for
now, I'm afraid you'll have to use old fashioned email....my email
address for contributions is...
comm...@guidebook.free-online.co.uk
CLICK HERE TO EMAIL ME
________________________________________________________
LOOKING FORWARD TO ALL OF YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS......
Thanks in advance....
Mark Ian Rainsley
from "Jerry Murland" <mur...@clara.net> contains these words:
> ..'the gorge in the Rawthey is blocked by a sodding great tree....'
> A lot of work though, is there any way of getting the rest of us to help
> with this project?
> Jerry Murland
Okay Jerry, I haven't paddled the Rawthey.
Read the guidelines in my other post....and get typing!
And the rest of you...what are you all sitting around for??
Cheers....
Mark Ian Rainsley
in developing this.
The message <F1wJ2.34938$Eb....@nnrp2.clara.net>
from "Jerry Murland" <mur...@clara.net> contains these words:
> >2. Do not underestimate the amount of work involved and do not rush in.
No kidding, my girlfriend is packing her cases and I've only been
doing this for a couple of nights.
> >3. My approach to this would be to first build an index of rivers without
> >too much detail and publish that, so it gives people keywords to start
> >searching on. Then you could link these to resources across the net. Most
> of
> >the data we want is already out there somewhere, it's finding it that is
> the
> >tricky bit.
Anyone able to suggest any good sources of info/ links???
> Then add in your comments and reviews as supplements. This also
> >saves reinventing the wheel eg noone is going to do a better job than Chris
> >has already done on the Welsh Rivers so they may as well buy the book. What
> >is needed is a searchable index of rivers so folks have start point for the
> >'where can I go this weekend' questions with basic info like location,
> >grades, alternatives.
> >
> >
> >------
> >Matt G
Jerry Murland
Jerry Murland
Mark Ian Rainsley wrote in message <199903222...@zetnet.co.uk>...
>The message <199903212...@zetnet.co.uk>
> from Mark Ian Rainsley <markra...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> I've been writing up my own river guide website.
>
>Okay, it's now up and running...I THINK.
>
>All that is there so far is about 25 pages of various guff, and only
>one river guide.'.of the Moriston, as that's been discussed this week.
>
>Can u please try it and see if it is working for me?
>
>www.guidebook.free-online.co.uk
>
>If it is, any comments welcome....
>
Matt Gillam
>Great idea Mark, long overdue, Matt's suggestions sound very sensible. It
>would be great to have a website that contains up-to-the-minute info about
>rivers from paddlers who are actually out there paddling the stuff
You already have it, you're reading it now.
>A lot of work though, is there any way of getting the rest of us to help
>with this project?
I think the volume of work involved is the reason most projects of this type
never get off the ground (and all credit to those that do). Hence the best
thing to do is keep it very simple to start off with.
Maintaining a big website of static pages is a big job. You want to change
the page design, you going to go through and edit every one of 50 pages? I
would do this in a database driven way - an Access (or whatever) database
held offline wiht all the master data and a macro that regenerates pages
with the hit of a button. But then I am a programmer and actually have
already used this technique for another project. The key is that the data is
held in a core and the pages are regenerated very easily. To change the page
design you edit the macro (once) and regenerate the pages, so it can grow
organically. No big bang with lots of effort.
I would guess the best way people can contribute is with content and visits.
That would encourage to maintainers to put work in.
Anyway Mark, it's your baby, whatdya wannado next?
vin...@eauxvives.org
> Maintaining a big website of static pages is a big job. You want to change
> the page design, you going to go through and edit every one of 50 pages? I
> would do this in a database driven way - an Access (or whatever) database
this is the solution which we chose for our (slowly) upcoming french
riverguide. What we have is an access database with dynamic queries (ASP),
which allows visitors to enter new data in the guide. Please have a look at
it, although up till now it's only in french In fact, we use the same
technique for other info such as water levels. This can be constantly updated
by the visitors, and allows, as it has been suggested, to contain
'up-to-the-minute info about rivers from paddlers who are actually out there
paddling' For example, one paddler paddled the Gresse last weekend and
updated info in that river today. We hope to make an english translation if
there is a need for it. The address is
http://www.eauxvives.org/rivieres/rivieres.asp
Vincent
http://www.eauxvives.org
Whitewater Mailing lists, Forums, Rivers....
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Mark Ian Rainsley
from "Jerry Murland" <mur...@clara.net> contains these words:
> All i can find Mark is the home page of Zednet ......am i missing something?
Yep, me to...sorry about the remature announcement.
Any experts able to help?
I have bunged all the files in the right folder on their server,
including the all important index.htm to start it off.
But I still get the 'free-online' crap coming up when I log in, not
my website....?
(long exasperated noise)
Keith Meredith
keyboard and created:
> www.guidebook.free-online.co.uk
Sorry Mark - it's taken me to a page telling me all about the benefits of
using free-online!
Keep trying
Best wishes
Keith
--
__ _ _ @ + me...@argonet.co.uk "I took | Water Ramblers
|\/| |_ |_) |_) \/ /\ up canoeing instead of climbing | Canoe Club
| | |__ | \ | \ / \__/ when I realised I could swim | On the R. Ouse
but not fly!" |at Harrold, Beds
Craig West
>I have bunged all the files in the right folder on their server,
>including the all important index.htm to start it off.
Is everything definitely in lower case? That's the easiest mistake to make.
Craig
Jerry Murland
Jerry Murland
Mark Ian Rainsley wrote in message <199903222...@zetnet.co.uk>...
>Thanks for the advice Matt, I'll be in touch the moment I hit a wall
>in developing this.
>
>The message <F1wJ2.34938$Eb....@nnrp2.clara.net>
> from "Jerry Murland" <mur...@clara.net> contains these words:
>
>> >2. Do not underestimate the amount of work involved and do not rush in.
>
>No kidding, my girlfriend is packing her cases and I've only been
>doing this for a couple of nights.
>
>> >3. My approach to this would be to first build an index of rivers
without
>> >too much detail and publish that, so it gives people keywords to start
>> >searching on. Then you could link these to resources across the net.
Most
>> of
>> >the data we want is already out there somewhere, it's finding it that is
>> the
>> >tricky bit.
>
>Anyone able to suggest any good sources of info/ links???
>
>> Then add in your comments and reviews as supplements. This also
>> >saves reinventing the wheel eg noone is going to do a better job than
Chris
>> >has already done on the Welsh Rivers so they may as well buy the book.
What
>> >is needed is a searchable index of rivers so folks have start point for
the
>> >'where can I go this weekend' questions with basic info like location,
>> >grades, alternatives.
>> >
>> >
>> >------
>> >Matt G
>
>
Keith Meredith
keyboard and created:
> But I still get the 'free-online' crap coming up when I log in, not
> my website....?
This is where it costs you 1ukp/min to find out what's wrong... unless you
can find an email address for help...
Matt Gillam
>riverguide. What we have is an access database with dynamic queries (ASP),
>which allows visitors to enter new data in the guide. Please have a look at
Nice site, good luck with it.
How about splitting
>it, although up till now it's only in french In fact, we use the same
>technique for other info such as water levels. This can be constantly
updated
>by the visitors, and allows, as it has been suggested, to contain
>'up-to-the-minute info about rivers from paddlers who are actually out
there
>paddling' For example, one paddler paddled the Gresse last weekend and
>updated info in that river today. We hope to make an english translation if
>there is a need for it. The address is
>http://www.eauxvives.org/rivieres/rivieres.asp
I am still not convinced all the fancy programming is necessary to make a
site user-updatable.
It seems like reinventing the wheel when uk.r.b.p already does the same job
well.
Also it is easy enough to put a Usenet link on a web site via Dejanews.
To make it more international friendly but without any translation work you
could use icons etc to indicate hazards and items to note liw get0in abd
take-out points.
Please explain your grading system?
>
>Vincent
>http://www.eauxvives.org
>Whitewater Mailing lists, Forums, Rivers....
Good to see you here. Maybe this should be eu.rec.boats.paddle?
Matt Gillam
Ring me or send me your ftp server, uid and password and I will have a look
at it.
You can probably change your password later if it's bothering you.
Trust me I'm a developer.
Mark Ian Rainsley wrote in message <199903231...@zetnet.co.uk>...
>The message <4MzJ2.35108$Eb....@nnrp2.clara.net>
> from "Jerry Murland" <mur...@clara.net> contains these words:
>
>> All i can find Mark is the home page of Zednet ......am i missing
something?
>
>Yep, me to...sorry about the remature announcement.
>
>
>Any experts able to help?
>
>I have bunged all the files in the right folder on their server,
>including the all important index.htm to start it off.
>
>But I still get the 'free-online' crap coming up when I log in, not
>my website....?
>
>(long exasperated noise)
Charlie Wood
> Yep, me to...sorry about the remature announcement.
>
>
> Any experts able to help?
>
> I have bunged all the files in the right folder on their server,
> including the all important index.htm to start it off.
I'm no expert but...
The address you gave seems to be correct but when free-online's name server
resolves it it comes out the same as 'www.free-online.net' which is where
the free online chaff comes from.
It must know about the 'guidebook' account as if you try something random
it fails to resolve. It looks like they haven't linked your hostname
(www.guidebook.free...) to the correct bit of their server and the default
is to show the free online guff.
According to the web pages you can email tech suuport on
'sup...@free-online.net' though I wouldn't hold my breath.
spud paddlers do have their uses! ;-)
--
charlie wood Spider Software Limited
+44 (0)131 475 7028 o/ 8 John's Place
http://www.spider.com/ ___#___ Edinburgh EH6 7EL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Veni Vidi Natavi
vin...@eauxvives.org
> I am still not convinced all the fancy programming is necessary to make a
> site user-updatable.
> To make it more international friendly but without any translation work you
> could use icons etc to indicate hazards and items to note liw get-in and
> take-out points.
how about writing an english template which queries the same database but only
reports the fields that do not require translation (such as put-in, take-out,
cotation, etc...)?
this is easy to do (this is the beauty of dynamic queries!)
> Please explain your grading system?
we will post a separate message on this subject. We use the grading created by
Pierre Peschier from the Cevennes connexion. It's kinda like the Addison
grading system (except that it was invented several years before, even Corran
admits it:-) and takes into account the 'danger' factor
> Good to see you here. Maybe this should be eu.rec.boats.paddle?
good idea :-) in fact, I believe that quite a few frenchmen read this NG but
are afraid to post...
Vincent
http://www.eauxvives.org
Whitewater Mailing lists, Forums, ....
Jez
> Trust me I'm a developer.
I nearly fell off my chair when I read this! :-)
Jez
jerem...@covance.com (Reading, England)
"I don't care who's son you are, you're not walking on my water!"
Matt Gillam
>"Matt Gillam" <ma...@newmail.net> wrote:
>
>> Trust me I'm a developer.
>
>I nearly fell off my chair when I read this! :-)
>
>Jez
Did you wake up?
Mark Ian Rainsley
from Keith Meredith <me...@argonet.co.uk> contains these words:
> This is where it costs you 1ukp/min to find out what's wrong... unless you
> can find an email address for help...
Yup, I tried their email support and got a one sentence answer. So I
souped up my phonebill today and called them. They believe that it
should now all be working as of 4 am tomorrow.
So here we go, launch attempt #2 is announced!
www.guidebook.free-online.co.uk
Keith Meredith
keyboard and created:
> So here we go, launch attempt #2 is announced!
> www.guidebook.free-online.co.uk
No luck, still!
Mark Ian Rainsley
Most definitely in 'development' stage though; many of the links need
fiddling with.
Bear with me....
I'm now going 'out'. Wonder how I'll cope with real life.
--
Mark Rainsley, Southbourne, UK
'I'd begun to distinguish a plain sheep from a pretty one....'
Brian Wilson, 'Blazing Paddles'.
--
Craig Addison
Craig Addison, Poole, Dorset.
Jerry Murland
background, it does make for some strained reading ............
Enjoyed the writing 'bit' , perhaps you could include writing bits from
other paddlers ??
Jerry Murland
Craig Addison wrote in message
<36FAD159...@caddison.free-online.co.uk>...
Andrew Heaward
hard to read!
Keep up the good work
Andrew
Jerry Murland wrote in message ...
Keith Meredith
and created:
> No luck, still!
Whoopee - it worked this morning - well done Mark!
Mark Ian Rainsley
...now I'm back from my hols I'll try to get some work done on it.
Seems the first thing to do is change the colours, which have been
vilified by all and sundry!!!
Well my girlfriend liked them.
I will announce whenever I make an update. Bet you can't handle the suspense.
--
Mark Rainsley, Southbourne, UK
Now in Development...
'The Guidebook'
www.guidebook.free-online.co.uk