Re: Alan J Flavell, RIP
Andy Mabbett
Found on uk.railway; such sad news.
The page referred to is:
<http://www.physics.gla.ac.uk/pipermail/psitg/2006/000053.html>
In message <ant24205...@Polly.LOGAN.LOCAL>, Iain Wilkie Logan
<iain...@enterprise.net> writes
>Sadly I have to report that the following appeared on the
>'comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html' newsgroup today:
>
>********************
>
> From: Dr J R Stockton <repl...@merlyn.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: Alan J Flavell, RIP
> X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.21beta
>
>In comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html message <O9SDh.1524$v65.1435@read
>er1.news.saunalahti.fi>, Sat, 24 Feb 2007 09:53:39, Jukka K. Korpela
><jkor...@cs.tut.fi> posted:
>
>>> By the way, where's Alan - retired? He could have checked that page
>>> much more fully than most people here.
>>
>>No idea. I tried to contact him after I noticed that his web pages are
>>gone (and don't exist in webarchive.org) but got no response so far. I
>>have bad feelings about this.
>
>Googling Alan Flavell's Department for his name has found a reference to
>his funeral, which must have been either on 2006-12-11 or rather shortly
>after.
>
>********************
>
>I'd some contact with Alan in regard to my own website, and our mutual
>interest in the BAHN railway simulator program. I wondered where he'd gone as
>I'd enjoyed his postings.
>
>You'll be missed Alan,
>
>All the best,
>
>Iain
>
>Worth a visit: <http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/> 'Free Our Data Campaign'
>
--
Andy Mabbett
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Krustov
<Andy Mabbett>
<Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:39:44 +0000>
<$gdlBvTw...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
> Found on uk.railway; such sad news
>
Cant remember if i liked or disliked the guy - but i certainly recognise
the name .
Will sink a cold one on his behalf tomorrow night .
Molly Mockford
<usenet...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote in
<$gdlBvTw...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:
>Found on uk.railway; such sad news.
Thank you for passing on that news, Andy. I'd been worried about Alan
since last year, when he stopped posting, and my e-mail enquiries went
unanswered. I knew he hadn't been well, but didn't realise quite how
serious it must have been.
The loss of his web pages is what Alan would have hated most. We had
been in discussion over them - I'd offered him hosting for them when he
retired. If anybody has an archive of them, please contact me (the
Reply-To address works) and I will gladly continue with that plan.
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
Doug Paulley
<nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
>The loss of his web pages is what Alan would have hated most.
They were a mine of information. It is very sad; I am sad that he has
died.
>We had
>been in discussion over them - I'd offered him hosting for them when he
>retired. If anybody has an archive of them, please contact me (the
>Reply-To address works) and I will gladly continue with that plan.
Unfortunately none of his pages seem to have hit the Wayback Machine.
I wonder if an approach to Glasgow Uni's Physics Department might come
up with something.
--
http://www.kingqueen.org.uk
to email me remove .lartsspammers
Molly Mockford
<nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote in
<fSiK96Ui...@molly.mockford>:
>The loss of his web pages is what Alan would have hated most. We had
>been in discussion over them - I'd offered him hosting for them when he
>retired. If anybody has an archive of them, please contact me (the
>Reply-To address works) and I will gladly continue with that plan.
Thanks to Martin Clark for letting me know that Alan's pages are indeed
on the Wayback Machine at archive.org. I'm taking a copy now, and hope
to have them back in regular webspace within a short while. Watch this
space.
And what *you* can all do for Alan, if you will, is this: once those
pages are back up on the web, LINK TO THEM. Make his pages sit high and
proud in Google, so that all newcomers asking the right questions can
easily find the right answers. Between us, we should be able to get
them right up there and ensure that all his hard work was not wasted.
Doug Paulley
<nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
>Thanks to Martin Clark for letting me know that Alan's pages are indeed
>on the Wayback Machine at archive.org. I'm taking a copy now, and hope
>to have them back in regular webspace within a short while. Watch this
>space.
Oh good, I am glad. I couldn't find them on the Wayback Machine for
some reason.
PeterMcC
<fLrarYDH...@molly.mockford>
> At 11:10:26 on Sun, 25 Feb 2007, Molly Mockford
> <nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote in
> <fSiK96Ui...@molly.mockford>:
>
>> The loss of his web pages is what Alan would have hated most. We had
>> been in discussion over them - I'd offered him hosting for them when
>> he retired. If anybody has an archive of them, please contact me
>> (the Reply-To address works) and I will gladly continue with that
>> plan.
>
> Thanks to Martin Clark for letting me know that Alan's pages are
> indeed on the Wayback Machine at archive.org. I'm taking a copy now,
> and hope to have them back in regular webspace within a short while.
> Watch this space.
>
> And what *you* can all do for Alan, if you will, is this: once those
> pages are back up on the web, LINK TO THEM. Make his pages sit high
> and proud in Google, so that all newcomers asking the right questions
> can easily find the right answers. Between us, we should be able to
> get them right up there and ensure that all his hard work was not
> wasted.
Good on you, Molly.
Alan struck me as the ideal Usenet poster: possessor of an enormous depth of
knowledge, ready with help for newbies and experts alike and always measured
in his response even to those who were not. His contribution will be missed;
it's good to know that the one that he's already made will not be lost.
--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.
Richard Watson
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:10:26 +0000, Molly Mockford
> <nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> The loss of his web pages is what Alan would have hated most.
Although I crossed swords with Alan on a few occasions (something which,
I think it would be fair to say, was quite easy to do without trying too
hard) I think he made a considerable contribution to the world of web
authoring and it will be poorer for his passing.
> I wonder if an approach to Glasgow Uni's Physics Department might come
> up with something.
>
I sent an email to the postmaster at the physics dept earlier today and
I've just had a response. Apparently he wasn't aware that the pages were
no longer visible and is making appropriate enquiries.
I will post again if there's more news - it would be ideal if they could
be restored to their tradition place.
--
Richard Watson
"Mail delay is sometimes happened. If, unfortunately, it is happened to
you, please be patience."
Dr J R Stockton
25 Feb 2007 11:10:26, Molly Mockford <nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk>
posted:
>
>The loss of his web pages is what Alan would have hated most. We had been
>in discussion over them - I'd offered him hosting for them when he retired.
>If anybody has an archive of them, please contact me (the Reply-To address
>works) and I will gladly continue with that plan.
Pages now via The Internet Archive, though not necessarily the latest?
<http://web.archive.org/web/20060426010624/ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/>
--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. REPLYyyww merlyn demon co uk Turnpike 6.05.
Web <URL:http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html> -> Timo Salmi: Usenet Q&A.
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No Encoding. Quotes precede replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Mail no News.
Richard Watson
> I will post again if there's more news - it would be ideal if they could
> be restored to their tradition place.
>
I've just had a response from someone again (I didn't realise they
worked at weekends in academia!!).
One problem they have is that there's a rather nasty page that links to
his old url. They have suggested putting up some pages and wanted to
know which were most important. Here's part of my response to their email:
> I'm aware of the rather nasty site which you mention, as I found it
> today while looking for Alan's pages. Perhaps the best solution to this
> could be to reinstate the actual pages so that people will link directly
> to them (and I know many who will) and this will then rise to the top of
> google.
>
> Possibly someone could write a fresh home page indicating that the
> original author has now died but keep the existing links to other pages.
> Maybe that way the sad individual will be shamed into removing or at
> least amending his link.
>
> I'm sure myself and other members of the usenet community would be only
> to pleased to help if manpower is required.
I'm sure they may appreciate your thoughts so if anyone has any, I'll be
happy to pass them on.
Thanks,
Molly Mockford
in <45e1ab63$0$8750$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>:
>Alan struck me as the ideal Usenet poster: possessor of an enormous
>depth of knowledge, ready with help for newbies and experts alike and
>always measured in his response even to those who were not.
I agree completely. Invariably patient with those who were genuinely in
search of knowledge, but with no time to waste on fuckwits and cluebies,
he was always generous with his expertise whenever it was wanted.
High-quality coding wasn't Alan's job; it was his hobby, one amongst a
number of interests; and yet he knew far more about it than many -
maybe most - professionals. Intelligent and knowledgeable and witty and
warm: you couldn't really ask for more in a man!
>His contribution will be missed; it's good to know that the one that
>he's already made will not be lost.
I've finished downloading his pages now. Ironically, my ripper won't
work on archive.org, itself probably the biggest web site ripper there
is! So I've had to save each page individually. It'll take a few days
to pull them into a coherent structure, and add the very necessary site
map (there is so much material there I'd never come across before!), but
it won't be long before his work is back up on the web again.
I'd like to think he knew. :-(
Molly Mockford
<doug.paulley....@kingqueen.org.uk> wrote in
<jf73u29hhano633u6...@4ax.com>:
>I wonder if an approach to Glasgow Uni's Physics Department might come
>up with something.
Alan did not much care for the low regard which he felt the University
had for his pages on HTML. He said that the University's official web
site once had a "tiny" link to his (absolutely crucial) pages on alt
text, but a "new broom" removed even that. I'd be disinclined to rely
on the University to restore, or maintain, his site - although if they
have any versions which are later than those archived on the Wayback
Machine (last updated 26 April 2006) I'll very happily add them to the
mirror I'll be putting in place. And if they do decide to restore his
pages, then that can only be a bonus, since the more that his work is
seen by web authors, whether new or experienced, the better.
Andy Mabbett
<nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk> writes
>I've finished downloading his pages now. Ironically, my ripper won't
>work on archive.org, itself probably the biggest web site ripper there
>is! So I've had to save each page individually. It'll take a few days
>to pull them into a coherent structure
Just as long as you've got the pictures of the cow and the canoe...
Martin Clark
>I've finished downloading his pages now. Ironically, my ripper won't
>work on archive.org, itself probably the biggest web site ripper there
>is! So I've had to save each page individually. It'll take a few days
>to pull them into a coherent structure, and add the very necessary site
>map (there is so much material there I'd never come across before!),
>but it won't be long before his work is back up on the web again.
I trust you'll post a URL here, Molly, when it is ready!
--
Martin Clark
Molly Mockford
<EQj7Afho...@getta.life>:
Yes indeed - see Message-ID: <fLrarYDH...@molly.mockford>!
Molly Mockford
<usenet...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote in
<9MxlKAFA...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:
>Just as long as you've got the pictures of the cow and the canoe...
I got them. How much are you going to pay to be allowed to see them?
;-}
Spartanicus
>mirror I'll be putting in place. And if they do decide to restore his
>pages, then that can only be a bonus, since the more that his work is
>seen by web authors, whether new or experienced, the better.
Note the possibility that SEs may penalize the ranking of identical web
content that is found in multiple places.
http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=35769
Quality guidelines - specific guidelines
[...]
Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially
duplicate content.
--
Spartanicus
Andy Mabbett
<nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk> writes
>At 00:07:28 on Mon, 26 Feb 2007, Andy Mabbett <usenet200309@pigsonthewi
>ng.org.uk> wrote in <9MxlKAFA...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:
>
>>Just as long as you've got the pictures of the cow and the canoe...
>
>I got them. How much are you going to pay to be allowed to see them?
>;-}
I don't need to see them - I've got the alt text.
Andy Dingley
<nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
>Alan did not much care for the low regard which he felt the University
>had for his pages on HTML.
Whatever he felt about that, chances are that the university still
retain copyright on them. Before putting up copies of them anywhere, it
would be vital to have the university release them to the public domain
first (details on creative commons, blah, blah, blah).
Molly Mockford
wrote in <m657u214d4ig5o5sb...@4ax.com>:
>Whatever he felt about that, chances are that the university still
>retain copyright on them. Before putting up copies of them anywhere, it
>would be vital to have the university release them to the public domain
>first (details on creative commons, blah, blah, blah).
Fair point. I'll write to them and clear it with them.
Richard Watson
> At 14:35:30 on Sun, 25 Feb 2007, Doug Paulley
> <doug.paulley....@kingqueen.org.uk> wrote in
> <jf73u29hhano633u6...@4ax.com>:
>
>> I wonder if an approach to Glasgow Uni's Physics Department might come
>> up with something.
>
> Alan did not much care for the low regard which he felt the University
> had for his pages on HTML.
It seems that now they are worried about the pages going out of date,
which is why they've been removed.
However I hear it's likely that they are going to pass them on to you
:-)
Has anyone seen an obituary - or know enough to write one?
Molly Mockford
<tinne...@doilywood.org.uk> wrote in
<sr6dnaSPvpbFP3vY...@eclipse.net.uk>:
>However I hear it's likely that they are going to pass them on to you
I hope so. I had one e-mail from them yesterday, to which I replied,
but I haven't heard from them today. I think they had no inkling of how
highly Alan's work was regarded by his peers.
Richard Watson
> At 09:53:58 on Thu, 1 Mar 2007, Richard Watson
> <tinne...@doilywood.org.uk> wrote in
> <sr6dnaSPvpbFP3vY...@eclipse.net.uk>:
>
>> However I hear it's likely that they are going to pass them on to you
>
> I hope so. I had one e-mail from them yesterday, to which I replied,
> but I haven't heard from them today. I think they had no inkling of how
> highly Alan's work was regarded by his peers.
I enquired about whether there was an obituary available - I have to
confess that I don't know much about Alan aside from what we saw here.
Apparently none is available. Does anyone know enough to write one?
Perhaps a collaboration with someone at the university could be in order.
Andy Mabbett
<tinne...@doilywood.org.uk> writes
>I enquired about whether there was an obituary available - I have to
>confess that I don't know much about Alan aside from what we saw here.
>
>Apparently none is available. Does anyone know enough to write one?
It might be better to wrote a Wikipedia page on Alan, to which others
can add as and when they see fit.
Dr J R Stockton
1 Mar 2007 20:34:44, Molly Mockford <nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk>
posted.
I've been asked to post the following to comp.infosystems.www.authoring.
html but it seems appropriate to include uk.net.web.authoring where I
can still see the thread.
---------------------
Excuse me for suddenly popping up unannounced in this forum, but as an
old friend of Alan Flavell's (since 1960) I can provide some of the
answers to various people's questions. Most of the following came from
Alan himself, with some extra notes provided by his sister. He didn't
want it widely known while he was still alive, but I guess there is no
harm in revealing it now.
Early in 2005 he was found to be suffering from myeloma -- a type of
bone cancer which is currently incurable, though treatment can extend
life for several years. He was selected for the intensive pathway of a
relatively new treatment; in his own words: "i.e. for 'younger / fitter
patients' LOL". He responded well, and was hoping that he would survive
long enough for newer, more effective treatments to be developed.
It wasn't to be. In August he fell and broke his leg (presumably the
cancer had damaged the bone structure). From then on he went downhill
fast, with total kidney failure and the cancer raging out of control --
even his consultant expressed his shock at the speed it happened. He
died on the 30th November 2006, and I lost a very good friend.
See:
<www.myeloma.org.uk/frmsets/fshome.htm>
<www.ukmf.org.uk/documents/myeloma9.pdf>
Since I don't have access to much of the Glasgow University site, and I
would like to ask anybody who does whether the University posted an
obituary? Does anyone know whether any local newspaper did? And, did
anyone attend the funeral? I would be grateful for all and any
information.
BTW, in January this year I downloaded Alan's pages with HTTRACK. So
there is in fact an extra copy available, which may be more up-to-date
than the April 2006 version mentioned in the forum.
Keith Wilkinson
kawail...@yahoo.com
------
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