reverse littering?
Carl D
window, and a pedestrian picked it up and threw it back in
and kept walking. The car was waiting to enter a roundabout,
so neither person in the car could do anything about it (and
I hope they learned something).
Did the ped do anything illegal?
What if it had been a fag end (fire hazard)?
Would it matter if it was the driver or a passenger?
Kate XXXXXX
driveway and emptied his ashtray overboard... I was out in the garden
doing something, so I wandered over with the dustpan and brush and swept
up the butts and ash. I knocked on the passenger window, and when he
opened it, I tipped the fag ends onto his swanky leather passenger seat
and said: I believe these belong to you! He turned puce and drove off...
I have also returned dog poop to the owner in a similar manner when left
on my lawn.
No come-back either time. Not sure how you stand doing this on the
public highway.
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Steve Firth
> On 17/04/2011 15:00, Carl D wrote:
>> Yesterday I saw a passenger drop some litter out of a car
>> window, and a pedestrian picked it up and threw it back in
>> and kept walking. The car was waiting to enter a roundabout,
>> so neither person in the car could do anything about it (and
>> I hope they learned something).
>>
>> Did the ped do anything illegal?
>>
>> What if it had been a fag end (fire hazard)?
>>
>> Would it matter if it was the driver or a passenger?
>>
>>
> No idea. But many moons ago some erk stopped his exec motor on my
> driveway and emptied his ashtray overboard... I was out in the garden
> doing something, so I wandered over with the dustpan and brush and swept
> up the butts and ash. I knocked on the passenger window, and when he
> opened it, I tipped the fag ends onto his swanky leather passenger seat
> and said: I believe these belong to you! He turned puce and drove off...
About a decade ago I was cupping the hedge and a couple stopped in the lane
outside the house, changed baby's nappy then pushed the used one into my
hedge. I had a shovel to hand so I picked up the nappy and dropped it
through the open sunroof of the car. The driver shouted that I was "F'ing
disgusting". I pointed out that they started it. They drove off at high
speed - I bet someone else got the package later on.
GP Hardy
> Yesterday I saw a passenger drop some litter out of a car window, and a
> pedestrian picked it up and threw it back in and kept walking....
>
> Did the ped do anything illegal?
I can't help with your question, but I figured that as my query is on the
same subject, I'd tag it onto your thread:
Can an individual take over the identity of litterer with regard to a
specific piece of discarded rubbish?
Last week I was looking after someone else's dog, and one of his habits was
to grab any litter we came across, such as crisp packets and plastic cups.
If I discard the litter after grabbing it off him, does that mean I'm now
the litterer?
(It was on a beach - a couple of times in other places, there was a
litterbin available to dispose of his collection properly.)
Doctor Dave
I think that anybody intending to prosecute this would have to stretch
the point a long way to get anywhere close to seeing this as illegal.
The pedestrian was returning property to its rightful owner.
If it was a lit fag end, then a charge of criminal damage becomes much
more viable as does civil liability for any resultant damage.
Ste
wrote:
>
> No idea. But many moons ago some erk stopped his exec motor on my
> driveway and emptied his ashtray overboard... I was out in the garden
> doing something, so I wandered over with the dustpan and brush and swept
> up the butts and ash. I knocked on the passenger window, and when he
> opened it, I tipped the fag ends onto his swanky leather passenger seat
> and said: I believe these belong to you! He turned puce and drove off...
>
> I have also returned dog poop to the owner in a similar manner when left
> on my lawn.
So the exec tipped the ashes out of his car onto your driveway, and
you waited until he opened up the window and then threw them back in
the car. Applying that principle, how do I complete the following
sentence: the dog excreted a stool onto your lawn, and you waited
until the _blank_ opened up and you then put the stool back in the
_blank_?
Doctor Dave
I would have thought not:
"If anyone throws down, drops or otherwise deposits in, into or from.
any place to which this section applies, and leaves any thing
whatsoever in such circumstances as to cause, or contribute to, or
tend to lead to, the defacement by litter of any place to which this
section applies, he shall........be guilty of an offence"
You would argue that the defcement or the contribution to it had
already taken place. Theoretically, as the litter does not belong to
you, you don't have the right to take it away.
gaz
It would have made a great Youtube moment...
alan.holmes
"Ste" <ste_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:554d7400-1528-4c10...@v16g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
Just spread it on the dogs back!
Alan
Geoff Berrow
<dave-chr...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> (It was on a beach - a couple of times in other places, there was a
>> litterbin available to dispose of his collection properly.)
>
>I would have thought not:
>
>"If anyone throws down, drops or otherwise deposits in, into or from.
>any place to which this section applies, and leaves any thing
>whatsoever in such circumstances as to cause, or contribute to, or
>tend to lead to, the defacement by litter of any place to which this
>section applies, he shall........be guilty of an offence"
>
>You would argue that the defcement or the contribution to it had
>already taken place. Theoretically, as the litter does not belong to
>you, you don't have the right to take it away.
I remember a few years ago, climbing Ben Nevis with my dog. He loved
to carry a bottle or a stick but there is a shortage of those on Ben
Nevis. Anyway, he found a drinks carton and was happily carrying that
up, dropping it every now and again and then going back for it. On
one occasion a public spirited walker coming down saw the carton (but
didn't see that my dog had been carrying it), picked it up and put it
in his rucksack. I couldn't bring myself to say "Can my dog have his
litter back?"
He found a discarded scarf later so was happy again. :-)
--
Geoff Berrow (Put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs www.4theweb.co.uk/rfdmaker
Adam Funk
> Kate XXXXXX <ka...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>> No idea. But many moons ago some erk stopped his exec motor on my
>> driveway and emptied his ashtray overboard... I was out in the garden
>> doing something, so I wandered over with the dustpan and brush and swept
>> up the butts and ash. I knocked on the passenger window, and when he
>> opened it, I tipped the fag ends onto his swanky leather passenger seat
>> and said: I believe these belong to you! He turned puce and drove off...
>
> About a decade ago I was cupping the hedge and a couple stopped in the lane
> outside the house, changed baby's nappy then pushed the used one into my
> hedge. I had a shovel to hand so I picked up the nappy and dropped it
> through the open sunroof of the car. The driver shouted that I was "F'ing
> disgusting". I pointed out that they started it. They drove off at high
> speed - I bet someone else got the package later on.
Good for you! I wish more people (including myself --- I'm not really
"confrontational") did things like this; eventually these people would
get the message that littering is not acceptable behaviour.
Neil Williams
> the car. Applying that principle, how do I complete the following
> sentence: the dog excreted a stool onto your lawn, and you waited
> until the _blank_ opened up and you then put the stool back in the
> _blank_?
Good job I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read that... :)
Neil
--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK
Steve Firth
TBH I wish I could do it more often. The village I live in is just about
far enough from McDonalds for drivers and passengers to have finished
their greasburgers and sugar water. So they throw the packaging out of
the window and it builds up in large drek-drifts in the centre of the
village. Every so often the Parish Council appeals to residents to go
and pick the stuff up - usually there's enough rubbish to fill a skip
almost all of it fast food wrapping from the one source. It makes one
wonder if McDonalds could be made to pay for the collection of the
rubbish they create.
Mr. Benn
news:353333332324747178.147653%steve%-mallo...@news.individual.net...
Excellent! I'm not as bold as that. A few months ago I was visiting the
local shops. As I was arriving on foot, I saw a woman throw an empty
cigarette box out of her car window. I picked it up almost as soon as it
had hit the ground and put it into a bin that was almost directly in front
of the car! Some people are so lazy and inconsiderate.
GB
> TBH I wish I could do it more often. The village I live in is just
> about far enough from McDonalds for drivers and passengers to have
> finished their greasburgers and sugar water. So they throw the
> packaging out of the window and it builds up in large drek-drifts in
> the centre of the village. Every so often the Parish Council appeals
> to residents to go and pick the stuff up - usually there's enough
> rubbish to fill a skip almost all of it fast food wrapping from the
> one source. It makes one wonder if McDonalds could be made to pay for
> the collection of the rubbish they create.
Well, they might get the message if you return it. To do that, you'd need to
bag it up of course, but then you'd want to keep the bags for future use.
So, you'd have no option but to empty all this stuff out on the floor of
their store. Be extra careful that no dog turds get mixed up with the
McOffallburgers stuff.
--
Murphy's ultimate law is that if something that could go wrong doesn't,
it turns out that it would have been better if it had gone wrong.
Jethro
reading this, I thought that whatever sanctions the litterer would
have had against the litteree would be offset by the fact that they
would have to effectively admit their guilt, before taking any action.
However, AIUI, the law doesn't work on a "two wrongs make a right"
principle. So the litteree could well find themselves on a charge of
criminal damage ....
Ian Jackson
<%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
>
>
>TBH I wish I could do it more often. The village I live in is just about
>far enough from McDonalds for drivers and passengers to have finished
>their greasburgers and sugar water. So they throw the packaging out of
>the window and it builds up in large drek-drifts in the centre of the
>village. Every so often the Parish Council appeals to residents to go
>and pick the stuff up - usually there's enough rubbish to fill a skip
>almost all of it fast food wrapping from the one source. It makes one
>wonder if McDonalds could be made to pay for the collection of the
>rubbish they create.
Well, you could put all the McDonalds rubbish into sacks, descend on
McDonalds unannounced, and empty the whole lot in their eating area. I'm
sure it would be appreciated! You could then suggest that, if they
didn't want a repetition, they might like to make a reasonable regular
donations to the Parish Council funds. [Or would that be blackmail?]
--
Ian
Adam Funk
> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2011-04-17, Steve Firth wrote:
>> > About a decade ago I was cupping the hedge and a couple stopped in the lane
>> > outside the house, changed baby's nappy then pushed the used one into my
>> > hedge. I had a shovel to hand so I picked up the nappy and dropped it
>> > through the open sunroof of the car. The driver shouted that I was "F'ing
>> > disgusting". I pointed out that they started it. They drove off at high
>> > speed - I bet someone else got the package later on.
BTW, that would've made a great "youtube moment", as someone else said
in his thread. (Pre-response to pedants: yes, I saw "a decade ago" up
there.)
>> Good for you! I wish more people (including myself --- I'm not really
>> "confrontational") did things like this; eventually these people would
>> get the message that littering is not acceptable behaviour.
>
> TBH I wish I could do it more often. The village I live in is just about
> far enough from McDonalds for drivers and passengers to have finished
> their greasburgers and sugar water. So they throw the packaging out of
> the window and it builds up in large drek-drifts in the centre of the
> village. Every so often the Parish Council appeals to residents to go
> and pick the stuff up - usually there's enough rubbish to fill a skip
> almost all of it fast food wrapping from the one source. It makes one
> wonder if McDonalds could be made to pay for the collection of the
> rubbish they create.
Here's an idea I just came up with: amend trademark law to let
councils fine trademark-owners some high amount for every piece of
trademark-bearing litter they collect. This would make
litter-collection profitable for local authorities; probably hit the
big corporate brands harder than small, local businesses; and motivate
them to educate their customers.
To avoid wasting councils' money on litigation, such a law would need
to state that registering or continuing to hold a trademark waives any
right of appeal over the fines (if you don't like it, no trademark for
you).
Jethro
But you'd just find companies using anonymous packaging.
Kate XXXXXX
> Steve Firth wrote:
>> TBH I wish I could do it more often. The village I live in is just
>> about far enough from McDonalds for drivers and passengers to have
>> finished their greasburgers and sugar water. So they throw the
>> packaging out of the window and it builds up in large drek-drifts in
>> the centre of the village. Every so often the Parish Council appeals
>> to residents to go and pick the stuff up - usually there's enough
>> rubbish to fill a skip almost all of it fast food wrapping from the
>> one source. It makes one wonder if McDonalds could be made to pay for
>> the collection of the rubbish they create.
>
>
> Well, they might get the message if you return it. To do that, you'd need to
> bag it up of course, but then you'd want to keep the bags for future use.
> So, you'd have no option but to empty all this stuff out on the floor of
> their store. Be extra careful that no dog turds get mixed up with the
> McOffallburgers stuff.
>
BartC
news:i7pt78x...@news.ducksburg.com...
> Here's an idea I just came up with: amend trademark law to let
> councils fine trademark-owners some high amount for every piece of
> trademark-bearing litter they collect. This would make
> litter-collection profitable for local authorities; probably hit the
> big corporate brands harder than small, local businesses; and motivate
> them to educate their customers.
>
> To avoid wasting councils' money on litigation, such a law would need
> to state that registering or continuing to hold a trademark waives any
> right of appeal over the fines (if you don't like it, no trademark for
> you).
That's not addressing the real problem, which is that some people think it's
perfectly acceptable to throw junk out of a car window, or to litter the
streets.
Attitudes have to change.
(That places like fast-food outlets produce a large amount of waste
packaging (considering the mountain of the stuff you end up with after even
a small snack) is another matter; you buy a drink in a beautifully
engineered and produced plastic bottle, spend 2 minutes drinking the
contents, then the bottle spends 1000 to 1000000 years, not decaying, but
being ground into smaller and smaller pieces of plastic. Eventually, since
plastic floats, the oceans will be covered with it.)
--
Bartc
Roland Perry
2011, BartC <b...@freeuk.com> remarked:
>you buy a drink in a beautifully engineered and produced plastic
>bottle, spend 2 minutes drinking the contents, then the bottle spends
>1000 to 1000000 years, not decaying, but being ground into smaller and
>smaller pieces of plastic. Eventually, since plastic floats, the oceans
>will be covered with it.)
Unless you recycle your plastic bottles (with the council) which our
household invariably does.
--
Roland Perry
Ian Jackson
<rol...@perry.co.uk> writes
Our council only accepts* plastics type 1, 2 and 3. Unfortunately, a lot
of large packaging is type 5 (polypropylene) , and it really grieves me
to have to throw this in the dustbin. This is the sort of stuff when, as
a youth making model aircraft and the like, I would have given my right
arm to have so readily-available.
*Mind you, for all I know, they simply dump the lot in landfill!
There's a list of plastic types and other information on this website:
<http://www.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?docume
ntID=574&pageNumber=2>
--
Ian
Roland Perry
Apr 2011, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>you buy a drink in a beautifully engineered and produced plastic
>>>bottle, spend 2 minutes drinking the contents, then the bottle spends
>>>1000 to 1000000 years, not decaying, but being ground into smaller
>>>and smaller pieces of plastic. Eventually, since plastic floats, the
>>>oceans will be covered with it.)
>>
>>Unless you recycle your plastic bottles (with the council) which our
>>household invariably does.
>
>Our council only accepts* plastics type 1, 2 and 3. Unfortunately, a
>lot of large packaging is type 5 (polypropylene) , and it really
>grieves me to have to throw this in the dustbin. This is the sort of
>stuff when, as a youth making model aircraft and the like, I would have
>given my right arm to have so readily-available.
How much polypropylene is used to make drink bottles?
--
Roland Perry
BartC
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:n9ZgdfAm...@perry.co.uk...
Yes, recycling makes everything alright! But it still seems an awful lot of
trouble to go to, first to manufacture the product, then to get it to the
recycling place, then to chop it up and reprocess it, then get it back to
the manufacturer, all for a single 200 or 250ml drink.
(I used to have these visions of a hypothetical 100-page free newspaper with
a circulation of one. That is, a considerable staff would be involved in
writing it, creating those roller blocks, printing it, even on 100% recycled
newsprint, delivering it to that one address in town. Who of course don't
read it and put it straight in the cycling bin. The council then drives
their vehicle all the way to the house to collect it, send it to the pulping
plant, eventually some of it gets back to the same printers.
And all repeated week after week. But 'recycling' means that it all makes
complete sense! I mention this because I once had *four* free weekly
newspapers delivered, all quite hefty, that non-one ever bothered reading!)
--
Bartc
Roland Perry
>>>you buy a drink in a beautifully engineered and produced plastic bottle,
>>>spend 2 minutes drinking the contents, then the bottle spends 1000 to
>>>1000000 years, not decaying, but being ground into smaller and smaller
>>>pieces of plastic. Eventually, since plastic floats, the oceans will be
>>>covered with it.)
>>
>> Unless you recycle your plastic bottles (with the council) which our
>> household invariably does.
>
>Yes, recycling makes everything alright! But it still seems an awful lot of
>trouble to go to, first to manufacture the product, then to get it to the
>recycling place, then to chop it up and reprocess it, then get it back to
>the manufacturer, all for a single 200 or 250ml drink.
Most of those drinks are extremely poor value for money, especially when
bought retail. So the whole exercise is somewhat wasteful.
--
Roland Perry
Ian Jackson
<rol...@perry.co.uk> writes
Drink bottles are normally #1 (PET).
--
Ian
Adam Funk
Right, but you're not among the people littering them!
Adam Funk
> "Adam Funk" <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote in message
> news:i7pt78x...@news.ducksburg.com...
>
>> Here's an idea I just came up with: amend trademark law to let
>> councils fine trademark-owners some high amount for every piece of
>> trademark-bearing litter they collect. This would make
>> litter-collection profitable for local authorities; probably hit the
>> big corporate brands harder than small, local businesses; and motivate
>> them to educate their customers.
>>
>> To avoid wasting councils' money on litigation, such a law would need
>> to state that registering or continuing to hold a trademark waives any
>> right of appeal over the fines (if you don't like it, no trademark for
>> you).
>
> That's not addressing the real problem, which is that some people think it's
> perfectly acceptable to throw junk out of a car window, or to litter the
> streets.
>
> Attitudes have to change.
True. And I'm not sure how to do that successfully.
But I like the idea of making it profitable for councils to clear
litter at fast food's expense.
Humbug
wrote:
None, usually.
They tend to be made of a variety of polythene, Polyethylene
Terephthalate (PET).
--
HUmbug
Steve Firth
> They tend to be made of a variety of polythene, Polyethylene
> Terephthalate (PET).
Isn't that a variety of nylon? (DARFC).
BartC
"Adam Funk" <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote in message
news:b8q088x...@news.ducksburg.com...
> On 2011-04-19, BartC wrote:
>> That's not addressing the real problem, which is that some people think
>> it's
>> perfectly acceptable to throw junk out of a car window, or to litter the
>> streets.
>>
>> Attitudes have to change.
>
> True. And I'm not sure how to do that successfully.
As people get older, they do tend to become more considerate. But then you
get a new generation just as bad!
>
> But I like the idea of making it profitable for councils to clear
> litter at fast food's expense.
Is it really the fast-food company's fault?
In the case of rubbish thrown out of cars, perhaps they should be fitted
with bins, although they are likely to be completely filled with the remains
of just one take-away meal for two.
--
Bartc
Adam Funk
> TBH I wish I could do it more often. The village I live in is just about
> far enough from McDonalds for drivers and passengers to have finished
> their greasburgers and sugar water. So they throw the packaging out of
> the window and it builds up in large drek-drifts in the centre of the
> village. Every so often the Parish Council appeals to residents to go
> and pick the stuff up - usually there's enough rubbish to fill a skip
> almost all of it fast food wrapping from the one source. It makes one
> wonder if McDonalds could be made to pay for the collection of the
> rubbish they create.
Can the litter problems that fast food outlets inevitably create be
used as grounds to reject planning permission?
Roland Perry
Apr 2011, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> remarked:
>Can the litter problems that fast food outlets inevitably create be
>used as grounds to reject planning permission?
Yes, lots of aspects need to be considered, including problems with
smells and fumes, litter or excessive late night noise, the possibility
of parking and/or traffic difficulties with associated congestion and
inconvenience.
--
Roland Perry
Mark Goodge
typed:
Yes, it can. More generally, the effects on the surrounding area (including
noise from customers as well as litter) is relevent in any planning
application for either change of use to takeaway food or construction of a
new takeaway. And the planning authorities have the power to impose
conditions on the establishment which can include a duty to pick up litter
dropped by their customers[1]. But the problem with drive-ins, such as
McDonalds, is that their customers may well be outside the area controlled
by the planning authority by the time they dump the litter, which makes
such clauses very hard to enforce or police.
[1] See, for example
http://www.worcester.gov.uk/fileadmin/assets/pdf/Environment/planning/ldf/spd/Leaflet_Takeaway_Food_Outlets.pdf
Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
John
<use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> But the problem with drive-ins, such as
> McDonalds, is that their customers may well be outside the area
> controlled
> by the planning authority by the time they dump the litter, which makes
> such clauses very hard to enforce or police.
>
I used to work by the roadside and most of the rubbish from cars gets
dumped where the situation changes from urban to countryside, as well as
behind street furniture and shrubbery.