Re: Powergen 10% + 30% <rant>
elyob
"Dave" <da...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:96mmc2t91m0hnr3fh...@4ax.com...
> Just had this price hike detals from Powergen. The much advertised (!)
> rise in
> basic rate IS indeed "only" another 10%. (Since last April that is),
>
> However closer inspection shows that their standing charge per day has
> increased
> in a single step by a staggering 30 PERCENT. From 34p to 49p per day (They
> presumably don't put in monthly figures because it looks even more
> outragious an
> increase, from c. £10,20 to c. £14,40).
>
> Actually, increasing the daily rate EVECTIVELLY PENALISES USERS WHO TRY TO
> SAVE
> MONEY BY USING LESS ELECTRICITY. This is truely outrageous in term of any
> "Green" policy and imho a very devious way of gaining more revenue.
>
> I'm off to uswitch NOW. btw Anyone know if there's any body worth writing
> a
> complaint to - some Ombudsman maybe or DEFRA perhaps? Probably a waste of
> time
> but maybe a good way to let off steam.
>
> btw please don't tell me we've had cheap supply from the North sea for
> years and
> all the rest of it - I know that already. I also know of this incompetenet
> governments energy plans and general policy methodology of retro-action.
> I've
> even hear that next year bills *may* come down when the new piplines from
> Holland and ? come on stream. Yeah and pigs might fly. As I see it Nuclear
> is
> the ONLY way to secure our future power supply and stop the Russkies
> turning off
> the tap when they want.
Money Saving Expert website is recommending "Don't Switch Now".
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1103281560,22751,
Mark
"elyob" <newsp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:44cb6117$1...@news1.homechoice.co.uk...
I am with EDF energy and have just had a letter with the tarrif increases
first 225 per quarter 11.35p then 7.65p for electricity inc vat
and for gas first 1465 per quarter 2.619p then 1.902p. I used uswitch and
was getting -£180 savings. At first I thought I could save £180 then noticed
it was a minus figure.
Mark
Andy Hall
>
> "elyob" <newsp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:44cb6117$1...@news1.homechoice.co.uk...
>>
>>>
>>
>> Money Saving Expert website is recommending "Don't Switch Now".
>>
>> http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1103281560,22751,
>
> I am with EDF energy and have just had a letter with the tarrif
> increases first 225 per quarter 11.35p then 7.65p for electricity inc
> vat
> and for gas first 1465 per quarter 2.619p then 1.902p. I used uswitch
> and was getting -£180 savings. At first I thought I could save £180
> then noticed it was a minus figure.
> Mark
It would certainly make sense to wait until all the players have played
their hands before jumping supplier.
Last time this happened, a switch from supplier would have resulted in
an apparent £250 pa saving. That was until the following week when it
would have been a £5 one. I wouldn't waste my time for that amount.
Andrew Gabriel
Dave <da...@127.0.0.1> writes:
> I'm off to uswitch NOW. btw Anyone know if there's any body worth writing a
> complaint to - some Ombudsman maybe or DEFRA perhaps? Probably a waste of time
> but maybe a good way to let off steam.
The Government. What's happening now has been accurately predicted
for the last 30 years, due to the energy policy followed over that
period. Oh, and it gets a lot worse than it is now, both in price
but more seriously in quality (continuity) of supply. The UK has
enjoyed a high quality electricity supply for the last ~50 years,
but that's just come to an end (for multiple reasons).
--
Andrew Gabriel
Andy Hall
Gabriel) said:
Do you mean in terms of continuity, availability, price stability,... ??
What's your prediction on where it goes from here?
Mary Fisher
"Andrew Gabriel" <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:44cb8c99$0$634$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk...
> In article <96mmc2t91m0hnr3fh...@4ax.com>,
> Dave <da...@127.0.0.1> writes:
>> I'm off to uswitch NOW. btw Anyone know if there's any body worth writing
>> a
>> complaint to - some Ombudsman maybe or DEFRA perhaps? Probably a waste of
>> time
>> but maybe a good way to let off steam.
>
> The Government.
I don't think it's worth complaining to them. They don't listen to anything
we say.
> What's happening now has been accurately predicted
> for the last 30 years,
I'd have said longer than that. Our oldest is going on for 50 and she was
under ten when I first heard such forecasts.
> due to the energy policy followed over that
> period. Oh, and it gets a lot worse than it is now, both in price
> but more seriously in quality (continuity) of supply. The UK has
> enjoyed a high quality electricity supply for the last ~50 years,
> but that's just come to an end (for multiple reasons).
Indeed. So we have to make our own arrangements.
I've just baked enough bread for four weeks in a stone bread oven Spouse
built last year, using one firing of waste timber. If I'd used the domestic
fan oven it would have taken several days. Spouse is currently having a
bath, having been made filthy by cutting up a neighbour's felled apple tree.
We'll use the wood for making things and firing the oven in a year or so. He
doesn't like baths, prefers a shower, but has accepted that no grid power
will be used for a bath, unlike a shower, because of our solar water heater
with pv pump.
Now I realise that such solutions (only two of what we do) aren't possible
for everyone but I'm sure that everyone can make changes to his/her life so
that power use is reduced. That would save money, which should be a spur!
Mary
>
> --
> Andrew Gabriel
The Medway Handyman
>>
>> The Government.
>
> I don't think it's worth complaining to them. They don't listen to
> anything we say.
How very true Mary. And then they wonder why the election turnouts are so
low.
--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257
Guy King
from "The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> contains
these words:
> > I don't think it's worth complaining to them. They don't listen to
> > anything we say.
> How very true Mary. And then they wonder why the election turnouts are so
> low.
Worse, they keep pretending to ask, then look all hurt when we still
fail to take them seriously. It's 'cos their attempts to listen are so
patently just glamour.
--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Colin Wilson
I swapped to Equigas and Equipower a couple of months ago, no standing
charge, a fixed rate per unit with no "tiered" charge bands, and its a
non-profit organisation (they use Southern to handle all the billing
etc)
They *are* listed on uswitch, but you need to make sure you tick
"include social tariffs" and "suppliers you can't swap to through us"
Sylvain VAN DER WALDE
"The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:M1Nyg.108958$wl.3...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Mary Fisher wrote:
>
>>>
>>> The Government.
>>
>> I don't think it's worth complaining to them. They don't listen to
>> anything we say.
>
lack of action is due as much (if not more) to the incompetent and uncaring
_Civil Service_.
Sylvain.
Andy Wade
> I swapped to Equigas and Equipower a couple of months ago, no standing
> charge, a fixed rate per unit with no "tiered" charge bands, and its a
> non-profit organisation (they use Southern to handle all the billing
> etc)
Me too, nearly a year ago now, and no more price rises in that time -
can't help thinking there must be some big ones coming up soon...
Another advantage is that you aren't penalised if you don't wish to pay
by DD.
How have you found the service from Southern Electric?
--
Andy
meow...@care2.com
> Just had this price hike detals from Powergen. The much advertised (!) rise in
> basic rate IS indeed "only" another 10%. (Since last April that is),
>
> However closer inspection shows that their standing charge per day has increased
> in a single step by a staggering 30 PERCENT. From 34p to 49p per day (They
> presumably don't put in monthly figures because it looks even more outragious an
> increase, from c. £10,20 to c. £14,40).
>
> Actually, increasing the daily rate EVECTIVELLY PENALISES USERS WHO TRY TO SAVE
> MONEY BY USING LESS ELECTRICITY. This is truely outrageous in term of any
> "Green" policy and imho a very devious way of gaining more revenue.
>
> I'm off to uswitch NOW. btw Anyone know if there's any body worth writing a
> complaint to - some Ombudsman maybe or DEFRA perhaps? Probably a waste of time
> but maybe a good way to let off steam.
>
> btw please don't tell me we've had cheap supply from the North sea for years and
> all the rest of it - I know that already. I also know of this incompetenet
> governments energy plans and general policy methodology of retro-action. I've
> even hear that next year bills *may* come down when the new piplines from
> Holland and ? come on stream. Yeah and pigs might fly. As I see it Nuclear is
> the ONLY way to secure our future power supply and stop the Russkies turning off
> the tap when they want.
AFAIK the power supply companies dont owe you anything, they tell you
their prices and you can choose to buy from them or not, just like any
other business. I cant see any cause for complaint. Sure its annoying
that energy costs are rising, but thats the way life is, and its not
due to the suppliers doing anything wrong.
Yes we need eelctricity and gas, just as we do food, water, clothes,
housing and so on. All these are supplied by an assortment of competing
suppliers.
The reason people dont listen to complaints is because so many of them
are valueless, and they just get fed up reading the same old crap.
Maybe someone needs to develop some kind of system to automatically
weed genuine complaints from all the junk. Perhaps start with a tickbox
list of 'what are you complaining about', price rises, a staff
incident, power cuts, etc.
NT
Colin Wilson
> How have you found the service from Southern Electric?
I've had no cause to contact them - and the bills are the clearest i've
ever seen !
http://www.coreutilities.co.uk/equigas1.jpg
http://www.coreutilities.co.uk/equigas2.jpg
http://www.coreutilities.co.uk/equipower1.jpg
http://www.coreutilities.co.uk/equipower2.jpg
elyob
"Andy Hall" <an...@hall.nospam> wrote in message
news:44cb...@nt1.hall.gl...
Sad thing is, uSwitch make up to £50 for every jump. Each jump pushes my
cost up.
Weatherlawyer
meow...@care2.com wrote:
> The reason people dont listen to complaints is because so many of them
> are valueless, and they just get fed up reading the same old crap.
> Maybe someone needs to develop some kind of system to automatically
> weed genuine complaints from all the junk. Perhaps start with a tickbox
> list of 'what are you complaining about', price rises, a staff
> incident, power cuts, etc.
Not quite.
The reason is that Thatcherism can't be undone. At least the utility
was a cohesive unit when it was a national asset. As soon as the
abortion was awarded to her asset stripping cronies, the valuable bits
were hived off and all the property sold if it could realise the cash
that paid for the aquisition.
Now the various channels including the complaints dept -which of course
is underfunded, are burdened with a top heavy management channel where
comunications were comprehensive.
And that is where the waste comes from and where the standing charge
goes.
Remember that art appreciator that knocked the face off the idol of
Margaret Thatcher and was fined or imprisoned for it? I wish he'd
knocked the real version in her smirk. And got a medal.
This Tone the Clone crook and monkey pleaser, is not the sort of person
that is likely to do anything about it. He has sooooo much sleaze
gungeing up everything he does and there is no viable alternative.
Sack the lot before we have to hang the bastards. Sure we'd have a
shambles but at least the anarchy would not be organised.
Andy Wade
>>How have you found the service from Southern Electric?
>
> I've had no cause to contact them - and the bills are the clearest i've
> ever seen !
They screwed-up my gas transfer by sending a wrong meter reading to BG.
That took quite a few phone calls to sort out - each blaming the other
- until I got the refund I was due from BG.
The web site is crap and it took a few e-mails before I could register
successfully for the on-line service (initially it wouldn't accept the
customer a/c numbers I was given).
In their favour though, e-mails to customerservice@ are answered
reasonably promptly, and now things have settled down there are no great
problems, and the prices are good.
Estimated bills have been way off the mark, but I guess that's to be
expected for the first year when they've no history to go on. Or does
your new supplier get usage history from your old as part of the
transfer process?
I was surprised to find that their gas bills use a different calculation
methodology to BG: Southern apply the volume conversion factor (VCF)
first, to give an adjusted consumption in m^3 (to two decimal places),
which they then multiply by the calorific value (to 4 DP) to get the kWh
used (2 DP), whereas BG give an unadjusted m^3 consumption figure (to 1
DP) then apply both the VCF and the CV (the latter rounded to 1 DP) in a
single step to get kWh, which they truncate to the next lowest integer.
OK, it only makes a few pence difference to a bill, but I would have
expected the calculation method to be standardised across all suppliers.
--
Andy
meow...@care2.com
> meow...@care2.com wrote:
> > The reason people dont listen to complaints is because so many of them
> > are valueless, and they just get fed up reading the same old crap.
> > Maybe someone needs to develop some kind of system to automatically
> > weed genuine complaints from all the junk. Perhaps start with a tickbox
> > list of 'what are you complaining about', price rises, a staff
> > incident, power cuts, etc.
>
> Not quite.
>
> The reason is that Thatcherism can't be undone. At least the utility
> was a cohesive unit when it was a national asset. As soon as the
> abortion was awarded to her asset stripping cronies, the valuable bits
> were hived off and all the property sold if it could realise the cash
> that paid for the aquisition.
>
> Now the various channels including the complaints dept -which of course
> is underfunded, are burdened with a top heavy management channel where
> comunications were comprehensive.
I know thuggie matcher changed the game, but now the utilities are
competing companies, somewhat like other business sectors, and I'm not
seeing anything different about gas & lec compared to other sectors
that warrants complaint. I think its just a case of people wanting to
be given sweets and moaning when theyre not. The moan is so widespread
that people have come to think it has some kind of real validity.
> And that is where the waste comes from and where the standing charge
> goes.
>
> Remember that art appreciator that knocked the face off the idol of
> Margaret Thatcher and was fined or imprisoned for it? I wish he'd
> knocked the real version in her smirk. And got a medal.
reckon theres a long queue for that one. Probably for all politicians.
The more work they put in, the more theyre disliked.
> This Tone the Clone crook and monkey pleaser, is not the sort of person
> that is likely to do anything about it. He has sooooo much sleaze
> gungeing up everything he does and there is no viable alternative.
>
> Sack the lot before we have to hang the bastards. Sure we'd have a
> shambles but at least the anarchy would not be organised.
Its a real problem. I think its just part of the duopoly game British
politics is. The 2 parties just hand power back and forth between them,
duopolitically. Oh, the dodgy word alarm's gone off, gotta run.
NT
Colin Wilson
> > I've had no cause to contact them - and the bills are the clearest i've
> > ever seen !
> They screwed-up my gas transfer by sending a wrong meter reading to BG.
> That took quite a few phone calls to sort out - each blaming the other
> - until I got the refund I was due from BG.
That`s not always the fault of the supplier - the meter readers are
often employed by the host REC or subcontracted to the lowest bidder,
not the supplier...
> The web site is crap and it took a few e-mails before I could register
> successfully for the on-line service (initially it wouldn't accept the
> customer a/c numbers I was given).
For Southern ? - I had no problems transferring via Ebico - it just took
a little longer than I expected from start to finish.
> Estimated bills have been way off the mark, but I guess that's to be
> expected for the first year when they've no history to go on. Or does
> your new supplier get usage history from your old as part of the
> transfer process?
AFAIK they don't get anything to work from - I was asked how much i'd
like to set my payments to, and I picked what I felt was a slightly
artificially high figure to begin with.
Jason
> the ONLY way to secure our future power supply and stop the Russkies
> turning off
> the tap when they want.
Don't bet on it. The places where the Uranium ore is mined, can just as
easily tell us to take a hike, or sell to a higher bidder (e.g. China).
-- JJ
Andy Wade
[Wrong meter reading sent]
> That`s not always the fault of the supplier - the meter readers are
> often employed by the host REC or subcontracted to the lowest bidder,
> not the supplier...
No, this was my own (correct) reading sent to SE and which they used for
starting my Equigas account. SE then sent a different reading (50 meter
units (i.e. 5000 ft^3) /higher/ through the EDI system to BG, resulting
in me getting charged twice for thirty-odd quid's worth of gas...
[Crap web site]
> For Southern ? - I had no problems transferring via Ebico - it just took
> a little longer than I expected from start to finish.
As I said, the problems were only with registering on the SE web site,
which is entirely optional of course. The transfer itself was fine,
_except_ for the wrong gas meter reading being sent.
[Consumption history]
> AFAIK they don't get anything to work from - I was asked how much i'd
> like to set my payments to, and I picked what I felt was a slightly
> artificially high figure to begin with.
I hate these rolling monthly DD schemes, where you end up paying them in
advance most of the time. As I said, one of the attractions of
Equipower & Equigas is that you can pay quarterly bills (always in
arrears of the actual consumption) by BACS or whatever without being
penalised on the price. I'll accept estimated readings if the bill's
within about ten quid of reality, otherwise they get revised readings -
this at least assures that they should build up an accurate usage
history to base future estimates on.
--
Andy
Mary Fisher
"Andy Wade" <spamb...@ajwade.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:44cde1bc$0$26592$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>
>
> I hate these rolling monthly DD schemes, where you end up paying them in
> advance most of the time.
When I was quoted a DD payment for (metered) water and more recently for
electricity which I considered too high I said I wasn't prepared to pay that
much and that if it weren't lowered I'd cancel the DD and go back to
quarterly payments. The payments were lowered to what I suggested and
they've been pretty accurate so far. When the price rises I'll accept that
the payments will have to increase too but it must still be proportionate.
Now that I'm in credit I'm going to change my payments to the phone company.
I'm very keen on DD for everything because it means I never forget to pay
and never have debts or worries (that's a constant nag as well as being
expensive) but I'm not prepared to pay over the odds.
DD is far preferable to the companies than quarterly payments so it's worth
negotiating - NOT arguing!
Mary
Jim Alexander
"Andy Wade" <spamb...@ajwade.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:44cde1bc$0$26592$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
> advance most of the time. As I said, one of the attractions of Equipower
> & Equigas is that you can pay quarterly bills (always in arrears of the
> actual consumption) by BACS or whatever without being penalised on the
> price. I'll accept estimated readings if the bill's within about ten quid
> of reality, otherwise they get revised readings - this at least assures
> that they should build up an accurate usage history to base future
> estimates on.
This started off as a rant about Powergen but that's not my experience.
Feed in meter readings from time to time or after a statement and you get an
accurate statement. Orginally paying too much but no problem getting a
refund. Now my monthly payment is about right. Be surprised if you
couldn't get your monthly payment right if you tried. For the moment
Powergen is about the cheapest (Equipower and Equigas excepted). Not had
any notification (yet) of an increase and no evidence of a press release on
the subject though an increase soon wouldn't surprise me. If there is I
won't rant but make a balanced decision. Well not BG whatever the fugures
indicate.
Jim A
marvelus
wrote:
>
>Sad thing is, uSwitch make up to £50 for every jump. Each jump pushes my
>cost up.
>
>
Probably biased towards the supplier who gives the best commision,
rather than cheapest prices, too.
Andy Wade
> Feed in meter readings from time to time or after a statement and you get an
> accurate statement. Orginally paying too much but no problem getting a
> refund. Now my monthly payment is about right. Be surprised if you
> couldn't get your monthly payment right if you tried.
Sorry, you've missed my point completely - I wasn't talking about
getting monthly payments right, I was talking about not wanting to pay
that way at all.
> For the moment Powergen is about the cheapest
Not for electricity round here (East Anglia), where they taken over as
the default supplier (Eastern Electricity -> TXU Energi -> Powergen).
They're the most expensive.
> [...] Well not BG whatever the fugures indicate.
Now who's being irrational? I never had any problem with BG, as default
gas supplier, until their prices started to go off the scale.
What is worth ranting about (IMHO) is the lack of clear visible
published tariffs in this industry. Go to most suppliers' Web sites and
look for their price lists. Usually you can't find any, just useless
'savings calculators' and stuff like that. Where they do exist the
tariffs tend to be well buried in the site without obvious navigation.
--
Andy
Colin Wilson
> rather than cheapest prices, too.
I wish i`d kept their original comments about Ebico !
Mary Fisher
> Jim Alexander wrote:
>
>> Feed in meter readings from time to time or after a statement and you get
>> an accurate statement. Orginally paying too much but no problem getting
>> a refund. Now my monthly payment is about right. Be surprised if you
>> couldn't get your monthly payment right if you tried.
>
> Sorry, you've missed my point completely - I wasn't talking about getting
> monthly payments right, I was talking about not wanting to pay that way at
> all.
It's called thread drift. You MUST have seen it before - or even contributed
... in fact you started a drift :-)
>
Mary
Dave Liquorice
>> For the moment Powergen is about the cheapest
>
> Not for electricity round here (East Anglia), where they taken over as
> the default supplier (Eastern Electricity -> TXU Energi -> Powergen).
> They're the most expensive.
And amongst the most expensive for here (Cumbria). Starting with NORWEB
then TXU etc... Our main supplier is Scotish Power online with standing
charge. The less used supplies are on Equipower (no standing charge at
all not even a "hidden one"(*) and a fixed reasonable price for what you
use).
Quite just now from Powergen of 14.931p/unit 1st 900. 9.261p for the
rest.
Scottish Power just gone up to 7.19p/unit.
Equipower 7.8p/unit for normal tarrif.
Equipower 2.73 - 9.19p/unit for E7.
2p/unit price difference doesn't seem much but at an average of 22
units/day that's £165/year!
(*) The vast majority of the "no standing charge" accounts charge you
significantly more for the first X units/qtr. It's odd that the price
difference between the first X units and the rest multiplied by the
number of units at the higher price equals the standing charge...
--
Cheers new...@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
Dave Liquorice
> Probably biased towards the supplier who gives the best commision,
> rather than cheapest prices, too.
Not when I looked you can see the details of the tarrifs being offered.
Of course not all suppliers may be listed but you can always use other
"switch" sites that are about to check. But be aware that there is only 2
or 3 actual databases about and many different switch sites just offer
slightly different looking interfaces to the same underlying data. A
decent site will say who their data source is.
Andy Wade
> (*) The vast majority of the "no standing charge" accounts charge you
> significantly more for the first X units/qtr. It's odd that the price
> difference between the first X units and the rest multiplied by the
> number of units at the higher price equals the standing charge...
Very true, and you could say it's a complete con, although there can
still be circumstances in which you gain - when, for example, your
summer gas consumption is almost zero because you use electricity for
water heating in the summer.
--
Andy
Dave Liquorice
> Very true, and you could say it's a complete con, although there can
> still be circumstances in which you gain - when, for example, your
> summer gas consumption is almost zero because you use electricity for
> water heating in the summer.
Wouldn't have thought using lecky at nearly 10p/unit would be ever more
economic than gas at less than 5p/unit. However not having mains gas it
is not a calculation I have ever even thought about doing....
Jonathan Schneider
> Very true, and you could say it's a complete con, although there can
> still be circumstances in which you gain - when, for example, your
> summer gas consumption is almost zero because you use electricity for
> water heating in the summer.
About two thirds of my leccy usage is night-rate (immersion, washing,
drying though am using the big orange thermonuclear ball at the
moment) even when I'm working at home. I've been wondering if, in a
different house I could generate a few hundred watts during the day
and make the large daytime component of my leccy bill disappear.
The tricky bit is whether to have a fancy mains-feeding inverter, for
which Powergen might give you a measly 3p/kWh or just have seperate
rings for things like fridge, computer, telly.
Jon
Andy Wade
> Wouldn't have thought using lecky at nearly 10p/unit would be ever more
> economic than gas at less than 5p/unit.
Well in my case the comparison is night-rate electric at 2.75 p/kWh
against gas at 1.85 p/kWh (both +VAT). So the gas only wins if burnt at
over about 65% efficiency. Since I have an ancient cast iron open flue
boiler and long 28mm gravity primary circuit to the cylinder I doubt
that the overall efficiency is that high. One day it will get replaced
by something more modern, but until then I'll continue to heat a
cylinderfull each morning on the E7, then top it up during the day if
necessary using gas.
--
Andy
Andy Wade
> About two thirds of my leccy usage is night-rate (immersion, washing,
> drying though am using the big orange thermonuclear ball at the
> moment) even when I'm working at home. I've been wondering if, in a
> different house I could generate a few hundred watts during the day
> and make the large daytime component of my leccy bill disappear.
>
> The tricky bit is whether to have a fancy mains-feeding inverter, for
> which Powergen might give you a measly 3p/kWh or just have seperate
> rings for things like fridge, computer, telly.
Here's the obvious answer (not)
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/1f01fc72-2005-11db-9913-0000779e2340.html
(Prices from about £9k, apparently, according to R4 last night.)
--
Andy
manat...@hotmail.com
Andy Wade wrote:
>
> Here's the obvious answer (not)
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/1f01fc72-2005-11db-9913-0000779e2340.html
>
> (Prices from about £9k, apparently, according to R4 last night.)
For the FT website subscription or the panels ;-)
MBQ
Andrew Gabriel
Andy Hall <an...@hall.nospam> writes:
> On 2006-07-29 17:28:09 +0100, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew
> Gabriel) said:
>> The Government. What's happening now has been accurately predicted
>> for the last 30 years, due to the energy policy followed over that
>> period. Oh, and it gets a lot worse than it is now, both in price
>> but more seriously in quality (continuity) of supply. The UK has
>> enjoyed a high quality electricity supply for the last ~50 years,
>> but that's just come to an end (for multiple reasons).
>
> Do you mean in terms of continuity, availability, price stability,... ??
All.
At the beginning of the 1970's, our electricity came mainly from
our own coal, with well over 300 years of reserves known, so
we were completely self-sufficient in electricity supply. Ten
years later, we were no longer mining coal, but importing it.
Then came the sell off and split up of the CEGB. The CEGB's
remit had been to provide a highly reliable electricity supply,
and indeed we had one of the most reliable supplies in the
world under the control of the CEGB. Following the sale of the
generating plant, the remit became maximum profit. That's not
consistant with keeping generating plant in reserve for
emergency backup, and such plant was decomissioned. Also,
within 8 years of privitisation, the UK electricity generated
from gas went from nearly 0% to 40%. This was mostly done by
companies who purchased cheap low efficiency gas generators,
and signed up for cheap gas contracts which allowed the gas
companies to cut them off if there was a shortage. Combine
this with the privitisation of the gas industry, which similarly
resulted in scrapping nearly all the country's gas storage
capacity (down to just 3 day's worth at one point). This was
fine until we had a cold winter, and there wasn't enough gas
capacity to supply domestic heating and the gas generators,
and we came very close to rolling blackouts. This did alarm
the government, who up until then had ignored all warnings
about loss of generation contingency.
Gas storage capacity has been increased to about 11 days now
(contrast with 75 days in Germany, which they still consider
far too little and are expanding). We've had a few more
incidents of being right on the very edge of rolling backouts
due to insufficient electricity generation in the last few
years, where we've been withing minutes of initiating load
shedding (blacking out large areas to maintain stability of
supply to the remainder).
Another factor, which has shown up recently in Soho, is the
lack of maintenance to things like redundant electricity feeds,
resulting in extended power outages when failures occur and
backup facilities are no longer operational. One issue here
is that maintenance to infrastructure used to be done during
the summer when consumption was lower, but in many areas of
the country, consumption is now higher in the summer than the
winter due to air conditioning load, making finding usable
maintenance windows harder.
> What's your prediction on where it goes from here?
It's just a matter of time before we cross over our peak
generation capacity on some cold winter's day and chunks of
the UK get cut off, as the baseline consumption is rising each
year. Alternatively, failure of just one large power station
could trigger this. We needed to start building replacement
nuclear or coal plants over 10 years ago. Also, expect to see
more smaller areas get hit by power cuts as the network
increasingly suffers from aging kit and lack of maintenance.
We are currently stuck with a system based on a leagacy of
dirt cheap gas. Look what's happened to prices now that we
are no longer self-sufficient in gas, and bear in mind that
we are still 90% self-sufficient, currently importing only 10%
of consumption. This will rise to 40% in the next 3-4 years,
so just imagine where gas and electricity prices are likely to
go.
--
Andrew Gabriel