Metal Conduit
Anna Kettle
conduit which is pretending to be skirting. The oak skirting is a
decorative covering to metal conduit cos my electrician says that the
wires need to be in metal conduit so I've been googling around but all
I've come up with is round cross section conduit like screwfix pg 353.
I'd like to find a slightly larger rectangular cross section conduit
so I can easily fix it to the back of my skirting. Can anyone help?
Anna
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repair and conservation
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642
The Wanderer
> I want to run my electricity cables and central heating pipes in oak
> conduit which is pretending to be skirting. The oak skirting is a
> decorative covering to metal conduit cos my electrician says that the
> wires need to be in metal conduit so I've been googling around but all
> I've come up with is round cross section conduit like screwfix pg 353.
>
>
> I'd like to find a slightly larger rectangular cross section conduit
> so I can easily fix it to the back of my skirting. Can anyone help?
Mini trunking?
--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net
Ian Stirling
> I want to run my electricity cables and central heating pipes in oak
> conduit which is pretending to be skirting. The oak skirting is a
> decorative covering to metal conduit cos my electrician says that the
> wires need to be in metal conduit so I've been googling around but all
> I've come up with is round cross section conduit like screwfix pg 353.
>
>
> I'd like to find a slightly larger rectangular cross section conduit
> so I can easily fix it to the back of my skirting. Can anyone help?
I can't address the regulatory aspects of this.
What I'm doing at the moment - insulating the whole house bit by bit,
and also making a 5cm*5cm wiring conduit along the bottom of the wall, I
simply am using some 2mm steel I happened to have lying around behind
the skirting board.
The3rd Earl Of Derby
> I want to run my electricity cables and central heating pipes in oak
> conduit which is pretending to be skirting. The oak skirting is a
> decorative covering to metal conduit cos my electrician says that the
> wires need to be in metal conduit so I've been googling around but all
> I've come up with is round cross section conduit like screwfix pg 353.
>
>
> I'd like to find a slightly larger rectangular cross section conduit
> so I can easily fix it to the back of my skirting. Can anyone help?
>
Page 353? not all of us have a catalogue.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
Newshound
"The3rd Earl Of Derby" <al...@h.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vhm5h.50921$r61....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Owain
> I want to run my electricity cables and central heating pipes in oak
> conduit which is pretending to be skirting. The oak skirting is a
> decorative covering to metal conduit cos my electrician says that the
> wires need to be in metal conduit so I've been googling around but all
> I've come up with is round cross section conduit like screwfix pg 353.
> I'd like to find a slightly larger rectangular cross section conduit
> so I can easily fix it to the back of my skirting. Can anyone help?
I don't think you'll be able to run cables and pipes in the same conduit.
What you want is metal *trunking* at skirting level, with round metal
conduit drops/risers up to individual accessories. This is normally
wired using "singles" and you have to take care that the singles are
completely mechanically protected and that all sections of the trunking
are electrically continuous and bonded to earth.
The number and size of singles/cables you can run in trunking/conduit is
prescribed by the IEE Regulations.
An industrial electrician will be more familiar with the system.
TLC list galvanised trunking in 2" x 2" 3" x 3" 4" x 4" and 6" x 6" sizes
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Trunking_Galv_Index/index.html
Owain
The3rd Earl Of Derby
Good for you,however whats the point of having a catalogue when you can
browse on line?
ps I did say not all of us.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
Dave Plowman (News)
How did you manage to avoid that?
--
*The first rule of holes: If you are in one, stop digging!
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
The3rd Earl Of Derby
> In article <vhm5h.50921$r61....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> The3rd Earl Of Derby <al...@h.co.uk> wrote:
>> Page 353? not all of us have a catalogue.
>
> How did you manage to avoid that?
I give them an iffy name and address. :-)
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
The3rd Earl Of Derby
> In article <vhm5h.50921$r61....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> The3rd Earl Of Derby <al...@h.co.uk> wrote:
>> Page 353? not all of us have a catalogue.
>
> How did you manage to avoid that?
Send head office an email informing them you wish to be taken off their
mailing list for their catalogue,and that you will pick one up if and when
you need one.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
Anna Kettle
<owain...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> wrote:
>Anna Kettle wrote:
>> I want to run my electricity cables and central heating pipes in oak
>> conduit which is pretending to be skirting. The oak skirting is a
>> decorative covering to metal conduit cos my electrician says that the
>> wires need to be in metal conduit so I've been googling around but all
>> I've come up with is round cross section conduit like screwfix pg 353.
>> I'd like to find a slightly larger rectangular cross section conduit
>> so I can easily fix it to the back of my skirting. Can anyone help?
>I don't think you'll be able to run cables and pipes in the same conduit.
Yes the electrician looked dubious about that too. It seems like a
daft rule to me cos I'm not planning to make the pipes leak but if
they _have_ to be seperate then I will run the pipes outside the metal
conduit and inside the oak one ... Thats always assuming ther aren't
more regulations demanding that piping be run in a metal conduit ...
>What you want is metal *trunking* at skirting level, with round metal
>conduit drops/risers up to individual accessories. This is normally
>wired using "singles" and you have to take care that the singles are
>completely mechanically protected and that all sections of the trunking
>are electrically continuous and bonded to earth.
I dont know what 'singles' are - I'm guessing that is the description
of a there and back pair of electrical cables?
How does this fit in with the rule that cabling can be completely
unprotected so long as it runs straght up /down/right/left of a
socket?
Actually I dont want to bury the cable directly into in the plaster
but I thought perhaps I'd run it in plastic pipe (cheaper than metal?)
so a second cable can be dropped down the pipe when a few years down
the line I discover a desperate need for a new set of cabling. I'm
particularly keen to NOT have to cut out the plaster and make good
when that day comes
>The number and size of singles/cables you can run in trunking/conduit is
>prescribed by the IEE Regulations.
I just had a look at the guide to the regulations and I dont think I
will have any problems there
>An industrial electrician will be more familiar with the system.
I wonder if there is an industrial electrician reading this who would
like to add their twopennorth?! I'm sticking with my electrician to do
the work cos I trust him to do a good job
>TLC list galvanised trunking in 2" x 2" 3" x 3" 4" x 4" and 6" x 6" sizes
>http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Trunking_Galv_Index/index.html
Aha the 2*2 looks possible and now I know that the magic words are
'galvanised trunking'
Thanks for your help Owain
For those with a desire to look, the screwfix online page with the
conduit is:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R2CF2252E
Andy Wade
> I want to run my electricity cables and central heating pipes in oak
> conduit which is pretending to be skirting. The oak skirting is a
> decorative covering to metal conduit cos my electrician says that the
> wires need to be in metal conduit so I've been googling around but all
> I've come up with is round cross section conduit like screwfix pg 353.
Your electrician is saying the cables need to in conduit because the
area behind a skirting isn't one of the "safe zones." Enclosure in
earthed metal conduit is only one of a number of options. Another would
be to have the cables more than 50 mm behind the surface of the wall,
but that might not be practical either.
> I'd like to find a slightly larger rectangular cross section conduit
> so I can easily fix it to the back of my skirting. Can anyone help?
All metal conduit is round, the standard sizes being 16, 20, 25, 32, 38,
50 and 63 mm (O/D). Metal trunking starts at 50 x 50 mm, AFAIK, which
may be too large.
Another option would be to wire in something other than twin and earth
cable. A cable type which includes an earthed metal covering over the
live conductors avoids the need for any further protection. There's a
prescribed list of acceptable cable types given (by BS number) in Reg.
522-06-06 of the wiring regs. Mineral insulated (MICC, aka "pyro") is
one acceptable type and might be rather fitting in your fine historic
residence. It provides a very high degree of fire safety and looks well
on the surface of exposed beams. Just a thought, anyway.
--
Andy
fred
y...@freeukisp.co.uk> writes
>For those with a desire to look, the screwfix online page with the
>conduit is:
>http://makeashorterlink.com/?R2CF2252E
>
You realise that's plastic, yeah? Annoyingly they don't state the material
anywhere in the description.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla
Owain
>>>Page 353? not all of us have a catalogue.
> Good for you,however whats the point of having a catalogue when you can
> browse on line?
Because unless you've got a laptop it's rather awkward balancing a PC
screen on one's knees in bed.
Owain
Owain
>>I don't think you'll be able to run cables and pipes in the same conduit.
> Yes the electrician looked dubious about that too. It seems like a
> daft rule to me cos I'm not planning to make the pipes leak but if
> they _have_ to be seperate then I will run the pipes outside the metal
> conduit and inside the oak one ... Thats always assuming ther aren't
> more regulations demanding that piping be run in a metal conduit ...
I was thinking that the central heating pipes will be too warm to run
cables next to.
>>What you want is metal *trunking* at skirting level, with round metal
>>conduit drops/risers up to individual accessories. This is normally
>>wired using "singles" and you have to take care that the singles are
>>completely mechanically protected and that all sections of the trunking
>>are electrically continuous and bonded to earth.
> I dont know what 'singles' are - I'm guessing that is the description
> of a there and back pair of electrical cables?
"singles" are insulated single wires in different colours, instead of
Twin&Earth which is single wires in a thick outer sheath.
> How does this fit in with the rule that cabling can be completely
> unprotected so long as it runs straght up /down/right/left of a
> socket?
up-down-left-right does not include behind the skirting boards.
>>An industrial electrician will be more familiar with the system.
> I wonder if there is an industrial electrician reading this who would
> like to add their twopennorth?! I'm sticking with my electrician to do
> the work cos I trust him to do a good job
Metal trunking and conduit installations need a high level of manual
skills to do a workpersonlike job.
>>TLC list galvanised trunking in 2" x 2" 3" x 3" 4" x 4" and 6" x 6" sizes
>>http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Trunking_Galv_Index/index.html
> Aha the 2*2 looks possible and now I know that the magic words are
> 'galvanised trunking'
There are other types. I think the Houses of Parliament were wired in
copper conduits because it doesn't rust.
As Andy Wade points out other cable forms might be more suitable, in
particular MICC which is very suitable for high temp use; one needs to
be aware that heat is conducted along the cable though and to ensure
that the terminations at the accessories are not too hot from conducted
heat.
Owain
The3rd Earl Of Derby
>
> For those with a desire to look, the screwfix online page with the
> conduit is:
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?R2CF2252E
>
> Anna
Well even if I had a catalogue I'll be damned if I'd pick it to have a look
at what you're on about.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
The3rd Earl Of Derby
You should see if someone you know works in a hospital...them wheelie
bedside tables are a must for this type of senario.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
gort
> As Andy Wade points out other cable forms might be more suitable, in
> particular MICC which is very suitable for high temp use; one needs to
> be aware that heat is conducted along the cable though and to ensure
> that the terminations at the accessories are not too hot from conducted
> heat.
>
> Owain
But MICC also needs a good skill level to ensure correct termination which
a lot of people don't have these days.
Dave
Andy Burns
> Page 353? not all of us have a catalogue.
IME as soon as you've bought anything from Screwfix, they seem
determined to send you a larger annual volume of catalogues, flyers and
special offers than the Yellow Pages ...
David Hansen
Tansy...@freeukisp.co.uk (Anna Kettle) wrote this:-
>I dont know what 'singles' are - I'm guessing that is the description
>of a there and back pair of electrical cables?
>
>How does this fit in with the rule that cabling can be completely
>unprotected so long as it runs straght up /down/right/left of a
>socket?
In a cable the current carrying wires are insulated and then bound
up in mechanical protection of some sort. In the typical Twin &
Earth cable this mechanical protection is provided by the outer
sheath (it only provides limited mechanical protection, but it
provides enough for many applications). It can thus be run without
further mechanical protection, in the appropriate places.
Singles don't have any mechanical protection (the limited mechanical
protection provided by the insulation is discounted because the
material is there for insulation). So they are enclosed in the
mechanical protection of conduit or trunking. This protection must
extend all along the run of the singles.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
Anna Kettle
<owain...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> wrote:
>Anna Kettle wrote:
>>>I don't think you'll be able to run cables and pipes in the same conduit.
>> Yes the electrician looked dubious about that too. It seems like a
>> daft rule to me cos I'm not planning to make the pipes leak but if
>> they _have_ to be seperate then I will run the pipes outside the metal
>> conduit and inside the oak one ... Thats always assuming ther aren't
>> more regulations demanding that piping be run in a metal conduit ...
>
>I was thinking that the central heating pipes will be too warm to run
>cables next to.
I see what you mean. I can run the heating pipes in a void below the
skirting to keep them away from the wires. I had planned to put the
cable there too until my electrician told me I needed trunking.
Trunking wouldnt fit in the void cos it comes in straight sections and
my house doesnt
>>>What you want is metal *trunking* at skirting level, with round metal
>>>conduit drops/risers up to individual accessories. This is normally
>>>wired using "singles" and you have to take care that the singles are
>>>completely mechanically protected and that all sections of the trunking
>>>are electrically continuous and bonded to earth.
>> I dont know what 'singles' are - I'm guessing that is the description
>> of a there and back pair of electrical cables?
>
>"singles" are insulated single wires in different colours, instead of
>Twin&Earth which is single wires in a thick outer sheath.
>
>> How does this fit in with the rule that cabling can be completely
>> unprotected so long as it runs straght up /down/right/left of a
>> socket?
>
>up-down-left-right does not include behind the skirting boards.
So can I do trunking behind the skirting boards and then normal cable
from that to the sockets?
>>>An industrial electrician will be more familiar with the system.
>> I wonder if there is an industrial electrician reading this who would
>> like to add their twopennorth?! I'm sticking with my electrician to do
>> the work cos I trust him to do a good job
>
>Metal trunking and conduit installations need a high level of manual
>skills to do a workpersonlike job.
Hm. I was planning to do that bit myself. Am I asking too much? It
wont be visible
>>>TLC list galvanised trunking in 2" x 2" 3" x 3" 4" x 4" and 6" x 6" sizes
>>>http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Trunking_Galv_Index/index.html
>> Aha the 2*2 looks possible and now I know that the magic words are
>> 'galvanised trunking'
>
>There are other types. I think the Houses of Parliament were wired in
>copper conduits because it doesn't rust.
>
>As Andy Wade points out other cable forms might be more suitable, in
>particular MICC which is very suitable for high temp use; one needs to
>be aware that heat is conducted along the cable though and to ensure
>that the terminations at the accessories are not too hot from conducted
>heat.
If I move the heating pipe elsewhere (ie 50mm away) then I wont have a
requirement for high temperature use which might simplify the choices
continued ...
Anna Kettle
<spamb...@ajwade.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>Anna Kettle wrote:
>
>> I want to run my electricity cables and central heating pipes in oak
>> conduit which is pretending to be skirting. The oak skirting is a
>> decorative covering to metal conduit cos my electrician says that the
>> wires need to be in metal conduit so I've been googling around but all
>> I've come up with is round cross section conduit like screwfix pg 353.
>
>Your electrician is saying the cables need to in conduit because the
>area behind a skirting isn't one of the "safe zones." Enclosure in
>earthed metal conduit is only one of a number of options. Another would
>be to have the cables more than 50 mm behind the surface of the wall,
>but that might not be practical either.
No that cant be managed
>
>> I'd like to find a slightly larger rectangular cross section conduit
>> so I can easily fix it to the back of my skirting. Can anyone help?
>
>All metal conduit is round, the standard sizes being 16, 20, 25, 32, 38,
>50 and 63 mm (O/D). Metal trunking starts at 50 x 50 mm, AFAIK, which
>may be too large.
50mm*50mm is a tad large so maybe I should look again at round c/s.
Would it be too expensive to get my own trunking made up by a metal
fabricator at say 25mm*50mm? I think it would be within the regs cos I
just had a look at the wiring reg you suggested thankyou and it says
"be enclosed in an earthed conduit trunking or ducting satisfying the
requirements of these regulations for a protective conductor or be
mechanically protected sufficient to prevent penetration of the cable
by nails, screws and the like"
>Another option would be to wire in something other than twin and earth
>cable. A cable type which includes an earthed metal covering over the
>live conductors avoids the need for any further protection. There's a
>prescribed list of acceptable cable types given (by BS number) in Reg.
>522-06-06 of the wiring regs. Mineral insulated (MICC, aka "pyro") is
>one acceptable type and might be rather fitting in your fine historic
>residence. It provides a very high degree of fire safety and looks well
>on the surface of exposed beams. Just a thought, anyway.
Yes I've seen MICC It was used on a job I was working on earler in the
year and it blended very well with the old timbers but the
electricians who were installing it had been on a special course and I
expect they charged the client an arm and a leg. I dont think my
electrician has any experience of using it so although in theory it
sounds like a great option, as Dave says I dont think it will be a
goer ...
but perhaps something like
http://tpwcc.com/flexishield.html
would be OK. So far as I can see the metal is just there for
mechanical protection and otherwise it is just normal cable
Is this the answer?!
Anna
>
>--
>Andy
David Hansen
Tansy...@freeukisp.co.uk (Anna Kettle) wrote this:-
>Trunking wouldnt fit in the void cos it comes in straight sections and
>my house doesnt
Perhaps you need to describe your house in a bit more detail. For
example, why does the cabling need to come up from skirting level?
>>Metal trunking and conduit installations need a high level of manual
>>skills to do a workpersonlike job.
>
>Hm. I was planning to do that bit myself. Am I asking too much? It
>wont be visible
Whether it is visible or not is irrelevant. What is important is
that there is little chance of people being electrocuted or the
house catching fire. If your electrician is prepared to verify that
your workmanship is good enough then there is no problem. The
workmanship of enclosures must be verified as part of the inspection
process.
Owain
> Trunking wouldnt fit in the void cos it comes in straight sections and
> my house doesnt
hititwivanammer! (the trunking, not the house).
> So can I do trunking behind the skirting boards and then normal cable
> from that to the sockets?
Probably - in T&E. You'd need to grommet (at least, I'd prefer a gland)
the trunking where the cables exit.
>>Metal trunking and conduit installations need a high level of manual
>>skills to do a workpersonlike job.
> Hm. I was planning to do that bit myself. Am I asking too much? It
> wont be visible
Visibility doesn't matter, but you would need pipe bending, screwing,
and metal-bashing skills. You also need to understand how to ensure
electrical continuity including bonding across joins and to removable lids.
Accessibility does matter though - there are regulations about
mantaining access to cables in conduit/trunking either by removable
lids/inspection points or by drawing the cables out - you can't pull
cables round IIRC more than two 90deg bends or equivalent.
Owain
Owain
> but perhaps something like
> http://tpwcc.com/flexishield.html
> would be OK. So far as I can see the metal is just there for
> mechanical protection and otherwise it is just normal cable
Looks interesting
It's not clear how you would terminate it into the boxes whilst
maintaining continuity of the screen - or whether that is necessary
given there is also a stranded copper CPC (earth)
Owain
Owain
>>As Andy Wade points out other cable forms might be more suitable, in
>>particular MICC
> a lot of people don't have these days.
At least with MICC it's *only* the terminations, the actual cable runs
are quite like microbore CH pipe.
With MICC though you really do need a megger to test every segment as
you go.
Owain
fred
5...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> writes
that in the usual way at outlets will maintain the connection. I think I'd
prefer to back the skirting with earthed plate to provide a degree of
armouring and reduce the likelihood of damage rather than this sort of
approach.
gort
> At least with MICC it's *only* the terminations, the actual cable runs
> are quite like microbore CH pipe.
>
> With MICC though you really do need a megger to test every segment as
> you go.
>
> Owain
Agreed, ever seen MICC burn/explode through incorrect ratings ?, I have
and that was in a explosive situation as well!!. ( no I did'nt install it).
Dave