First car recommendations?

[gremlin_95]

Hi all,

I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what
recommendations and advice people on here would give? It will be used
for a lot motorway driving (commuting) due to the nature of the
apprenticeship I should soon be getting :)

I was looking at the Polo and Lupo from VW, the diesel versions as these
seem to give better economy for longer journeys?

I am not looking to buy new simply because I couldn't afford it.

Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for me.
Not worried about 'street cred' as such. I know insurance is going to be
quite expensive though :(

--
David

[ARWadsworth]

I am so glad I am not in your position:-(

What sort of mileage are you looking at per year?

--
Adam

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me>,

gremlin_95 <daw**dseed@g**ail.com> writes:
> Hi all,
>
> I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what

> I know insurance is going to be
> quite expensive though :(

If you're under 25, I would start by looking for insurance
you can afford. That might be as far as you get.

If you can negotiate a company car (even in exchange for a
large reduction in wages), that might also work out much
cheaper.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Doctor Drivel]

"gremlin_95" <daw**dseed@g**ail.com> wrote in message
news:ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me...

> Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for me.

Buy a Toyota or Honda. The rest can't touch them.

[Davey]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:48:33 +0000 (UTC)
and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

> In article <ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me>,
> gremlin_95 <daw**dseed@g**ail.com> writes:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what
>
> > I know insurance is going to be
> > quite expensive though :(
>
> If you're under 25, I would start by looking for insurance
> you can afford. That might be as far as you get.
>
> If you can negotiate a company car (even in exchange for a
> large reduction in wages), that might also work out much
> cheaper.
>

On an apprenticeship? That would be, um, unlikely.
--
Davey.

[gremlin_95]

4 days a week to work - 32.1 miles each way if I take the A6 and A508,
41.4 if I use the M1 and 43.1 if I use the M1 and A14, no clue which one
I would use?! All similar timings.

College, 1 day a week - 31.6 miles each way using the A46, 39.2 miles
using the M1 and 33.7 miles using the A6 and M1.

What do you think would be better?

Given this, the mileage would probably be around 10608 a year?
>


--
David

[fred]

In article <ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me>, gremlin_95
<daw**dseed@g**ail.com> writes

It's been a while since I've been in that place but I would avoid the
brands (like VW) that have inflated 'value added' or popularity based
price differentials. If you want VeeDub type quality differentials, look
at alternate brands based on the same chassis and parts that have lower
brand image such as Seat or lower, search for VAG group common chassis
or similar terms.

Similarly avoid brands with inflated servicing costs, particularly those
that require specialist tools for servicing (notably Citroen), and self
service or get it serviced in the back streets from a carefully chosen
garage.

While I would normally put Toyotas in the high service cost band I have
one rellie who bought a 6-12mth old ex driving school Yaris a few years
back and is very happy with it, no probs on longish trips. Another has
had no probs with a similar Corsa (although watch out for inflated
purchase price due to laddish popularity).

As another has said, get a list of cars in the lowest insurance groups
and make your first choice from them, if you're young then the ongoing
savings there will likely outweigh most savings in initial purchase
price.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

[fred]

In article <ji6c7h$kjf$1...@dont-email.me>, Andrew Gabriel
<and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> writes

>In article <ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me>,
> gremlin_95 <daw**dseed@g**ail.com> writes:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what
>
>> I know insurance is going to be
>> quite expensive though :(
>
>If you're under 25, I would start by looking for insurance
>you can afford. That might be as far as you get.
>

Top, car insurance group listings are available.

>If you can negotiate a company car (even in exchange for a
>large reduction in wages), that might also work out much
>cheaper.
>

I think the tax on benefits in kind associated with company car
provision far outweigh any saving achieved, that was certainly the case
when I made choices on such matters.

[Newshound]

VWs should be reliable but not so cheap to fix if they go wrong. Most
things Japanese are likely to be as reliable and cheaper; no problem
with Toyota or Honda, but I've also had good Nissans and Daihatsus, and
Which talk highly of low end Mazdas. But TBH the large volume stuff is
mostly pretty good: Focus, Astra, etc. Avoid higher spec stuff,
particularly French. One of my kids is having endless trouble with a Pug
307 fancy diesel.

My mechanic says steer clear of common rail, go for slightly older
stuff. I'm currently running a 1.4 diesel Astra estate which I bought
with about 80k on an 03 plate (Isuzu engine) for less than £3k, gives
almost 60 mpg on urban or motorway, and looks like running forever.

Either go for something very cheap, so that you can throw it away if it
gets silly (don't forget that it's likely to be worth £150 just for
scrap), or something respectable and boring.

If insurance is a big issue, look at low rating things like Micras,
Pandas, etc.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:48:33 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> If you're under 25, I would start by looking for insurance you can
> afford. That might be as far as you get.

WHS. Putting two and two togther (gremlin_95 & apprenticeship) we
might be looking at a 17 year old. Half saw on the telly the other
night possibly Superscrimpers that if a youngster adds an older
person as a named driver to their insurance the premium drops.

Maybe worth looking at the policies that fit a box to the car and
monitor how well (or not), when and where you drive and adjust the
premium accordingly.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[NT]

http://www.gizmag.com/the-100-most-reliable-cars-of-the-last-decade-in-order/5657/


NT

[Fredxx]

Is it worth going to your local broker to find out what car you can have
for the insurance you can afford?

[tony sayer]

In article <6c515238830b0d88...@tioat.net>, Doctor Drivel
<inv...@not-for-mail.invalid> scribeth thus

Electric ones of course;)...
--
Tony Sayer

[Fredxx]

Taxable benefits don't take into account the insurance premium for a
teenager, so might be a cost effective solution.

[Rick]

On 23/02/2012 9:15 PM, gremlin_95 wrote:

>
> Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for me.
> Not worried about 'street cred' as such. I know insurance is going to be
> quite expensive though :(
>

My Triumph Herald was a good choice.

[gremlin_95]

On 23/02/2012 21:48, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> In article<ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me>,
> gremlin_95<daw**dseed@g**ail.com> writes:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what
>> I know insurance is going to be
>> quite expensive though :(
> If you're under 25, I would start by looking for insurance
> you can afford. That might be as far as you get.
>
> If you can negotiate a company car (even in exchange for a
> large reduction in wages), that might also work out much
> cheaper.

Thanks, I am 17 so insurance is very expensive, I am looking for part
time work at the moment to save as much as I can so I don't have to make
my parents pay every penny etc ...
>


--
David

[gremlin_95]

They do have company cars at the place and any employees with a license
can drive them if required at work but IIRC you aren't given one till
you have been working there for a long time.

--
David

[Newshound]

IMHO most things with 80k miles on them, if they look reasonably tidy
and havn't been mucked around with by boy racers, will probably be OK
for the next 40k with no more than petrol, tyres, and the occasional
battery or exhaust. You might have to replace the cam belt and one set
of brakes.

As for routing, I would go by time, but for you cost might be the
driver. There's probably not much in it, all depends on the average
speed and amount of stop-start on the different routes.

[gremlin_95]

On 23/02/2012 22:37, fred wrote:
> In article <ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me>, gremlin_95
> <daw**dseed@g**ail.com> writes
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what
>> recommendations and advice people on here would give? It will be used
>> for a lot motorway driving (commuting) due to the nature of the
>> apprenticeship I should soon be getting :)
>>
>> I was looking at the Polo and Lupo from VW, the diesel versions as these
>> seem to give better economy for longer journeys?
>>
>> I am not looking to buy new simply because I couldn't afford it.
>>
>> Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for me.
>> Not worried about 'street cred' as such. I know insurance is going to be
>> quite expensive though :(
>>
> It's been a while since I've been in that place but I would avoid the
> brands (like VW) that have inflated 'value added' or popularity based
> price differentials. If you want VeeDub type quality differentials,
> look at alternate brands based on the same chassis and parts that have
> lower brand image such as Seat or lower, search for VAG group common
> chassis or similar terms.

Ah, like Seat, Skoda etc? My Dad has been driving VW's for a long time
now and has not really had any problems, hence me wanting to get one too
but I am happy to look at others based on the same chasis like you said.

>
> Similarly avoid brands with inflated servicing costs, particularly
> those that require specialist tools for servicing (notably Citroen),
> and self service or get it serviced in the back streets from a
> carefully chosen garage.

I believe it's not really the best practice to get it serviced at a main
dealer?

>
> While I would normally put Toyotas in the high service cost band I
> have one rellie who bought a 6-12mth old ex driving school Yaris a few
> years back and is very happy with it, no probs on longish trips.
> Another has had no probs with a similar Corsa (although watch out for
> inflated purchase price due to laddish popularity).
>
> As another has said, get a list of cars in the lowest insurance groups
> and make your first choice from them, if you're young then the ongoing
> savings there will likely outweigh most savings in initial purchase
> price.

The only thing I don't like about Japanese cars and some others (French
I think?) is that they don't seem to have a very heavy solid feel to
it, almost like they feel very err tinny? Like when you shut the door on
my Dads Passat, it feels heavy and makes a thud, compare this to a
Toyota I have worked on, all you get is a tiny clunk. Just a personal
thing I guess.

--
David

[gremlin_95]

Thank you, whilst on Pug, I am learning to drive in a 308 HDI...it broke
down on my first lesson, though this was just after it was serviced by
the main dealer and they apparently drained the battery,

--
David

[gremlin_95]

On 23/02/2012 22:49, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:48:33 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>
>> If you're under 25, I would start by looking for insurance you can
>> afford. That might be as far as you get.

> WHS. Putting two and two togther (gremlin_95& apprenticeship) we

> might be looking at a 17 year old. Half saw on the telly the other
> night possibly Superscrimpers that if a youngster adds an older
> person as a named driver to their insurance the premium drops.
>
> Maybe worth looking at the policies that fit a box to the car and
> monitor how well (or not), when and where you drive and adjust the
> premium accordingly.
>

My brother was a named driver for his first car (Nissan Micra 1.4 SE+
which is now sold), it definitely made it cheaper.

About the box fitted to the car, my instructor was telling me it can be
cheaper but if I was to drive after 000 - 0500* I could get a fine,
there are also other limitations.

* Whilst this shouldn't affect me too much, it is possible I will be
doing some very early starts - mostly for when I do the on-site part of
the apprenticeship for a few months.

--
David

[Mark]

gremlin_95 wrote:

> Thanks, I am 17 so insurance is very expensive, I am looking for part
> time work at the moment to save as much as I can so I don't have to make
> my parents pay every penny etc ...

any saving you may make on MPG on buying a car will be far outweighed by the
insurance cost for a young driver in the first year.
so pick your first car by it’s insurance rating
see
http://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2007/06/top-ten-cars-for-teens-cheapest-
young.html

[gremlin_95]

Very interesting read, thank you.

--
David

[Nightjar]

On 23/02/2012 22:49, Dave Liquorice wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:48:33 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>
>> If you're under 25, I would start by looking for insurance you can
>> afford. That might be as far as you get.
>

> WHS. Putting two and two togther (gremlin_95& apprenticeship) we

> might be looking at a 17 year old. Half saw on the telly the other
> night possibly Superscrimpers that if a youngster adds an older
> person as a named driver to their insurance the premium drops.

That requires that the named driver is a regular user of the car. If
not, it is misrepresentation of material details, which will invalidate
the insurance.

Colin Bignell

[Nightjar]

So was mine, although I did have to build it myself from two separate
cars. IIRC, insurance was £7/10/- p.a.

Colin Bignell

[gremlin_95]

On 23/02/2012 23:20, Newshound wrote

IMHO most things with 80k miles on them, if they look reasonably tidy
and havn't been mucked around with by boy racers, will probably be OK
for the next 40k with no more than petrol, tyres, and the occasional
battery or exhaust. You might have to replace the cam belt and one set
of brakes.

As for routing, I would go by time, but for you cost might be the
driver. There's probably not much in it, all depends on the average
speed and amount of stop-start on the different routes.

Thank you, I honestly don't mind an old car and I am happy to keep an
old car going (if it is economical to do so of course)

I find new cars have no character compared to a nice old car.


--
David

[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:32:44 +0000, gremlin_95 wrote:

> About the box fitted to the car, my instructor was telling me it can be
> cheaper but if I was to drive after 000 - 0500* I could get a fine,
> there are also other limitations.

That's why a said "look at", ie. read the small print.

Strikes me as a bit harsh to be fined for using the car between
midnight and 0500, an adjustment to the premium, if regular, I could
understand but not for a single "out of pattern" use in that period.

Also be aware of barrack room lawyers, take anything anybody says
with a pinch of salt unless you already know that what they are
saying is correct or that you know they have real direct expertise in
that field, even then be wary.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:33:56 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

> That requires that the named driver is a regular user of the car.

Define: "regular user".

Regular: Every day, once a week, once a month, once a year?

User: Off the drive turn around back on the drive. Once round the
block.
Into town for a newspaper. 600 mile round trip to grandmas?

I've never seen any restrictions or requirements placed on a named
driver, other than not being the "main driver".

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <ji6giv$gg7$2...@dont-email.me>,

That was my thinking. ~15 years ago, I was working with lots of
young computer programmers (although mostly older than 25), and
anyone interested in a sporty car took the company car option,
because you would never be able to afford the insurance yourself.
OTOH, if you just wanted a Ford Fiesta, it was cheaper not to use
the company car option.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[gremlin_95]

Indeed, I have had a look now some companies offering this, one company
says:

Time Categories:

Are divided into:
Peak
Off peak
Super Peak – this will only apply to all mileage driven during these
times, where a driver under the age of 23 years is named on the policy
or listed as the policyholder.

Please refer to your schedule for the time categories that have been
allocated to your policy.

Difficult to find on some others, though you are allocated 6000 miles a
year with another company, you have to buy extra miles if needed!

--
David

[Nightjar]

On 24/02/2012 00:05, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:33:56 +0000, Nightjar wrote:
>
>> That requires that the named driver is a regular user of the car.
>
> Define: "regular user".

You don't really expect an insurance company to set that in stone, so
that people can manipulate the use to qualify do you? They are currently
cracking down on attempts to reduce insurance premiums by making
misleading or false statements and, in the case of a young driver with
an older named driver, will expect that the named driver has reasonable
use of the car. What is reasonable, the insurers will decide, quite
possibly only after a claim has been made, by which time it is a bit
late to discover that your insurance is invalid.

Colin Bignell

[The Natural Philosopher]

gremlin_95 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what

> recommendations and advice people on here would give? It will be used
> for a lot motorway driving (commuting) due to the nature of the
> apprenticeship I should soon be getting :)
>
> I was looking at the Polo and Lupo from VW, the diesel versions as these
> seem to give better economy for longer journeys?
>

Go skofa. less barnd, less price amd virtually te same car.

BIL is on seciond Octavia I think, First died from 210k miles..

> I am not looking to buy new simply because I couldn't afford it.
>

Amen brother..

> Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for me.

> Not worried about 'street cred' as such. I know insurance is going to be
> quite expensive though :(
>
Again. Skoda.

Zero street cred..says 'I am careful with money and I buy the right tool
for the job'

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oh blimey.

In that case look at insurance FIRST. Unfortunately these cheap but
insurable for less than annual salary boxes are often not great for
motorway use. A van might help here.

My first vehicle was a van. insurance was cheap and you can occasionally
make a bit of cash shifting stuff and people around.

Off the record. Of course.



>>
>
>

[The Natural Philosopher]

Mark wrote:
> gremlin_95 wrote:
>
>> Thanks, I am 17 so insurance is very expensive, I am looking for part
>> time work at the moment to save as much as I can so I don't have to make
>> my parents pay every penny etc ...
>
> any saving you may make on MPG on buying a car will be far outweighed by the
> insurance cost for a young driver in the first year.

+101

> so pick your first car by it’s insurance rating
> see
> http://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2007/06/top-ten-cars-for-teens-cheapest-
> young.html

Yep. Some of these tiddlers are really nice to drive - love the wife's
old Punto...could throw that around easily. Made out of used bacofoil
mind you, and bits kept falling off inside.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Mine frightened me to death!

Loved both though. Had a tintop AND a convertible. That one came with a
shot engine tho - had to re-engine it.

[MuddyMike]

"gremlin_95" <daw**dseed@g**ail.com> wrote in message
news:ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me...

> Hi all,
>
> I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what

> recommendations and advice people on here would give? It will be used for
> a lot motorway driving (commuting) due to the nature of the apprenticeship
> I should soon be getting :)
>
> I was looking at the Polo and Lupo from VW, the diesel versions as these
> seem to give better economy for longer journeys?
>

> I am not looking to buy new simply because I couldn't afford it.
>

> Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for me. Not
> worried about 'street cred' as such. I know insurance is going to be quite
> expensive though :(

When I used to buy old bangers I got the best deals from breakers yards. My
son needed a car urgently a few years ago. I bought him a Renault 5 from our
local breakers. It was the combination of one scrapped for a seized engine
and another for accident damage. That car gave no trouble for 3.5 years, not
even needing work for MOTs.

At about the 2.5 year point my son announced "You know what I hate most
about that car? There is nothing wrong with it to justify getting rid!"

Mike

[MuddyMike]

"Nightjar" <c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote in message
news:pLadnXw3GZd3UdvS...@giganews.com...

No, just occasional use will do. Driving the car back from station/airport
once or twice a year for instance.

Mike

[ARWadsworth]

I am a named driver on my Mothers car insurance policy. I did not drive it
once last year.

I doubt that we are invalidating the insurance.

--
Adam

[ARWadsworth]

gremlin_95 wrote:
> On 23/02/2012 21:33, ARWadsworth wrote:
> > gremlin_95 wrote:

> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what
> > > recommendations and advice people on here would give? It will be
> > > used for a lot motorway driving (commuting) due to the nature of
> > > the apprenticeship I should soon be getting :)
> > >
> > > I was looking at the Polo and Lupo from VW, the diesel versions as
> > > these seem to give better economy for longer journeys?
> > >
> > > I am not looking to buy new simply because I couldn't afford it.
> > >
> > > Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for
> > > me. Not worried about 'street cred' as such. I know insurance is
> > > going to be quite expensive though :(

> > I am so glad I am not in your position:-(
> >
> > What sort of mileage are you looking at per year?
>
> 4 days a week to work - 32.1 miles each way if I take the A6 and A508,
> 41.4 if I use the M1 and 43.1 if I use the M1 and A14, no clue which
> one I would use?! All similar timings.
>
> College, 1 day a week - 31.6 miles each way using the A46, 39.2 miles
> using the M1 and 33.7 miles using the A6 and M1.
>
> What do you think would be better?
>
> Given this, the mileage would probably be around 10608 a year?

Probably not enough miles per year to justify a diesel especially if the
insurance premium is higher for a diesel.

You are probably going to have to use a 1000cc petrol car for at least the
first year.

--
Adam

[Rob]

On 23/02/2012 22:34, gremlin_95 wrote:
> On 23/02/2012 21:33, ARWadsworth wrote:
>> gremlin_95 wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what
>>> recommendations and advice people on here would give? It will be used
>>> for a lot motorway driving (commuting) due to the nature of the
>>> apprenticeship I should soon be getting :)
>>>
>>> I was looking at the Polo and Lupo from VW, the diesel versions as
>>> these seem to give better economy for longer journeys?
>>>
>>> I am not looking to buy new simply because I couldn't afford it.
>>>
>>> Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for me.
>>> Not worried about 'street cred' as such. I know insurance is going to
>>> be quite expensive though :(
>> I am so glad I am not in your position:-(
>>
>> What sort of mileage are you looking at per year?
>
> 4 days a week to work - 32.1 miles each way if I take the A6 and A508,
> 41.4 if I use the M1 and 43.1 if I use the M1 and A14, no clue which one
> I would use?! All similar timings.
>
> College, 1 day a week - 31.6 miles each way using the A46, 39.2 miles
> using the M1 and 33.7 miles using the A6 and M1.
>
> What do you think would be better?
>

You're going to have to try each and find the 'sweet spot'. Or talk to
locals/people at work. I mix it up depending on my mood, or take the
bus. But then I'm lucky enough to have a choice. Your time will come :-)

> Given this, the mileage would probably be around 10608 a year?
>>

Er - more like 20,000. Fuel is going to be your biggest hit - so I'd be
looking at an old but maintained diesel. Even then your fuel bill is
going to be at least £50 per week. Insurance for a new young driver -
£40 per week?

Have a word with the employer - they may let you use a pool car/van so
long as it's in the pool 9-5 and you use it for commuting only. I did
that for my first traineeship - it means nothing to them. You just have
to make it sound as though it's good for business. Promise to valet it
weekly for them :-)

Or maybe move? A room can be had in most towns for £50 inc. I expect.

Really well done on getting the apprenticeship by the way - great
achievement. Don't mean to put you off.

Rob

[Davey]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:08:25 +0000
Rick <rick_...@remove.btconnect.com> wrote:

> On 23/02/2012 9:15 PM, gremlin_95 wrote:
>
> >

> > Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for
> > me. Not worried about 'street cred' as such. I know insurance is
> > going to be quite expensive though :(
> >
>
>

> My Triumph Herald was a good choice.

So was mine. Great fun when driven at speed around corners, thereby
frightening anyone who had heard about rear-wheel tuck-under. I put a
Spitfire engine and O/D gearbox in mine, and ran it for years. And it
towed a car trailer.
--
Davey.

[Chris Bartram]

On 23/02/2012 21:15, gremlin_95 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what
> recommendations and advice people on here would give? It will be used
> for a lot motorway driving (commuting) due to the nature of the
> apprenticeship I should soon be getting :)
>
> I was looking at the Polo and Lupo from VW, the diesel versions as these
> seem to give better economy for longer journeys?
>

Either of those with a 1.4TDI is pretty economical, and reasonably quick
too.

[Chris Bartram]

On 24/02/2012 08:04, ARWadsworth wrote:

>> That requires that the named driver is a regular user of the car. If
>> not, it is misrepresentation of material details, which will
>> invalidate the insurance.
>
> I am a named driver on my Mothers car insurance policy. I did not drive it
> once last year.
>
> I doubt that we are invalidating the insurance.
>

Indeed. The only requirement usually is that the driver that uses the
car most must be named as the main driver.

[Davey]

Wow, a man with understanding of the delights of old cars! I loved an
old Rover 100, which went to whoever in our gang needed a car for a
while, always for £100. It was called Cholmondeley, (pron. 'Chummly),
and this fitted the character of the car perfectly. Pre-selector
gearbox, real quarter lights on the doors, dip-switch on the floor, the
way things should be. I wonder where he is now?

Back in the US, I drove a Ford Taurus for a year. It went, stopped,
never went wrong, but it had absolutely no 'soul', it was like a wet
fish of a car. No wonder that model was a best-seller amongst the
American masses.

--
Davey.

[ARWadsworth]

I wonder what the definition of "uses the car most" is?

The gf uses the car more than me but I drive more miles in it than she does.

--
Adam

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:51:44 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

>>> That requires that the named driver is a regular user of the car.
>>
>> Define: "regular user".
>
> You don't really expect an insurance company to set that in stone, so
> that people can manipulate the use to qualify do you?

If they use "reasonable" they have to lay down what they deem as
"resaonable" otherwise it's what "the person on the street" would
take a s "reasonable".

I'm a named driver on the SWMBO'd policy and she on mine. Purely so
we can drive either vehicle should the need arise. Be that break
down/servicing of one or simply turning it around on the forecourt
which requires driving on the public highway. Be that only out onto
the road, drive past the gate and back in.

We very rarerly use the others car and what use there is not
"regular".

> ... will expect that the named driver has reasonable use of the car.

Stop wriggling. That is not the same as "a regular user of the car".

If the car is not normally kept close (FSVO "close") to where the
named driver normally resides it does start to become a bit grey. In
this case IIRC the OP is living with parents so having a named driver
living in Edinburgh with the car kept in Bristol doesn't arise but
even then see above about the abilty to drive the car at short notice
without having to faff about sorting out insurance at 0300 sunday
morning.

> What is reasonable, the insurers will decide,

No if push comes to shove it's what the courts decide. "Resonable"
has no legal definition it's what the "man on the street" would think
as "reasonable".

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Jim K]

On Feb 23, 11:33 pm, Nightjar <c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk>
wrote:

really? so what of people who name their spouses on each others
policies for emergency/holiday/car servicing use but hardly ever drive
them? their insurances are invalid?? nah shurely not...

Jim K

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me>,

gremlin_95 <daw**dseed@g**ail.com> wrote:
> Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for me.
> Not worried about 'street cred' as such. I know insurance is going to be
> quite expensive though :(

You need to look at the overall cost of car ownership - not just the
headline ones. Reliability also depends on decent servicing, and some cost
more than others for this. Also look at depreciation. Not so important as
with a newer vehicle, but still a running cost.

--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 08:48:17 +0000, Chris Bartram wrote:

> Either of those with a 1.4TDI is pretty economical, and reasonably quick
> too.

The OP is 17, "reasonably quick" won't do the insurance premium any
favours. Perhaps an ancient SWB Defender or even Series Land Rover
would be a better bet?

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:43:20 +0000, gremlin_95 wrote:

>> Also be aware of barrack room lawyers, take anything anybody says

>> with a pinch of salt ...
>
> Indeed,

Sorry to preach(*). But the number of people who take what they hear,
see or read from the people media or the 'net as absolute is
depressingly high.

> Please refer to your schedule for the time categories that have been
> allocated to your policy.

So you can't find out what the time periods are before you hand over
your dosh? HTF are you supposed to make a buying decision?

> Difficult to find on some others, though you are allocated 6000 miles a
> year with another company, you have to buy extra miles if needed!

Seems a bit stingey, 6000 miles is only a 25 mile daily commute (48
week year, 4 weeks hols).

(*) Don't start me on pensions. I know that a pension is in the far
far distant future but money shoved in now can grow for 40+ years. If
there is still a state retirement age (or indeed a state pension) by
the time you get there it may well be 70 or 75, that's well over 50+
years... If you can afford £10/month now (the cost of just a few
pints) it will be money well used. Get advice from an *independant*
Financial Advisor as to the best place to put it. I don't know if a
pension fund or a stocks and shares ISA both with a
"cautious/balanced" spread of investments would be best. With the ISA
you can still get at the funds, not so easy to get at the money in a
pension fund, nothing to stop you moving money from an ISA to a
pension in 10 - 20 years time.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[george [dicegeorge]]

On 23/02/12 21:15, gremlin_95 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I will soon be needing to buy my first car.

Motorbike?

[g]

[Nightjar]

On 24/02/2012 08:50, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:51:44 +0000, Nightjar wrote:
>
>>>> That requires that the named driver is a regular user of the car.
>>>
>>> Define: "regular user".
>>
>> You don't really expect an insurance company to set that in stone, so
>> that people can manipulate the use to qualify do you?
>
> If they use "reasonable" they have to lay down what they deem as
> "resaonable" otherwise it's what "the person on the street" would

> take a s "reasonable"...

The insurance industry is not noted for making decisions that the man on
the street would.

> We very rarerly use the others car and what use there is not
> "regular".
>
>> ... will expect that the named driver has reasonable use of the car.
>
> Stop wriggling. That is not the same as "a regular user of the car".

I'm not 'wriggling' I am simply relaying a recent discussion on the
radio in which a chap from one of the insurance companies used both terms.

...

>> What is reasonable, the insurers will decide,
>
> No if push comes to shove it's what the courts decide. "Resonable"
> has no legal definition it's what the "man on the street" would think
> as "reasonable".

At best, it will be what the financial ombudsman decides, unless you
think it is a realistic expectation that a 17 yo who is trying to save
money on insurance will take on an insurance company in the Courts.
Meanwhile, he will be guilty of driving without insurance.

Colin Bignell

[phil...@gmail.com]

I love my 02 plate Suzuki Swift. It is not at all quick or trendy, but
it has done me 10 months of driving from Devon to Essex and back every
other weekend and is still going strong. Insurance is on the cheaper
end of the scale.

I've put > 50,000 miles since I bought it three years ago and it has
cost me servicing (got a new cam belt put on it when I first got it
serviced). A new exaust, battery, ht leads, tyres and sunries like the
odd windscreen wiper and bulb. It will need new brake discs/pads very
soon I suspect. I think that is more than good.

If you are a young driver, best advice I can give is don't have an
accident (so keep the speed right down and drive carefully), or the
insurance rise next time might put you off the road.

Philip

[Nightjar]

To clarify: I am relaying a recent discussion on the radio in which an
insurance spokesman was talking specifically about the case where an
older named driver is included on the insurance of a young person solely
for the purposes of reducing the premium.

Colin Bignell

[Nightjar]

[Nightjar]

On 24/02/2012 08:04, ARWadsworth wrote:

[Jim K]

On Feb 23, 10:59 pm, NT <meow2...@care2.com> wrote:

> On Feb 23, 9:15 pm, gremlin_95 <daw**dseed@g**ail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
>

> > I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what
> > recommendations and advice people on here would give? It will be used
> > for a lot motorway driving (commuting) due to the nature of the
> > apprenticeship I should soon be getting :)
>
> > I was looking at the Polo and Lupo from VW, the diesel versions as these
> > seem to give better economy for longer journeys?
>

> > I am not looking to buy new simply because I couldn't afford it.
>

> > Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for me.
> > Not worried about 'street cred' as such. I know insurance is going to be
> > quite expensive though :(
>

> http://www.gizmag.com/the-100-most-reliable-cars-of-the-last-decade-i...
>
> NT

gizmag .com ??????

don't tell me...

Jim K

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 08:25:30 +0000, Rob wrote:

>>> What sort of mileage are you looking at per year?
>>

>> Given this, the mileage would probably be around 10608 a year?
>
> Er - more like 20,000.

I make it 16,800/year (35 miles each way, 5 days a week for 48
weeks). A decent diesel ought to manage 50mpg+, 336 gallons, 1528l,
£45/week fuel (ish) will rise!

> Really well done on getting the apprenticeship by the way - great
> achievement. Don't mean to put you off.

Agreed, OP does appear to be a sensible lad. I just hope the
economics don't scupper him, £100/week+ just to get to and from his
apprenticeship. The minimum wage apprentice rate is £2.60/hr or
£96.20 (before tax/NI)for a 37hr week. B-(

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Nightjar]

On 24/02/2012 09:19, Dave Liquorice wrote:
...

> (*) Don't start me on pensions. I know that a pension is in the far
> far distant future but money shoved in now can grow for 40+ years. If
> there is still a state retirement age (or indeed a state pension) by
> the time you get there it may well be 70 or 75, that's well over 50+
> years... If you can afford £10/month now (the cost of just a few
> pints) it will be money well used.

I would wholeheartedly agree. I started my first pension scheme at age
19, after working out what the state pension would buy. That is one of
the reasons I now have a pension that many people would be happy to have
as a salary.

> Get advice from an *independant*
> Financial Advisor as to the best place to put it. I don't know if a
> pension fund or a stocks and shares ISA both with a
> "cautious/balanced" spread of investments would be best.

I would suggest putting a small proportion into higher risk investments.
Given a good enough spread, which your advisor should arrange, the gains
will outweigh the losses. I put 10% of one pension fund into a high risk
investment fund. Over 10 years it averaged 17% growth, which was
considerably more than anything else offered. The funds that worked
actually achieved 25% growth, but that was reduced by the losses. Note:
this is not an option for anyone who frightens easily or who does not
realise that you need to take a very long term view of pensions investments.

> With the ISA
> you can still get at the funds, not so easy to get at the money in a
> pension fund, nothing to stop you moving money from an ISA to a
> pension in 10 - 20 years time.

There is something to be said for not being able to get at your pension
fund, even in times of need.

Colin Bignell

[MuddyMike]

"Nightjar" <c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote in message

news:XfWdndMGa7T7x9rS...@giganews.com...

I think "solely for the purposes of reducing the premium." makes all the
difference.

Mike

[MuddyMike]

"Dave Liquorice" <allsortsn...@howhill.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk...

My son's first car was a V8 3.5ltr 110 running on LPG. It was cheaper to
insure and run than his mates old Fiesta, but sounded fantastic:-)

Sadly it was too big to park at uni, hence the Renault 5 mentioned earlier.

Mike

[MuddyMike]

"Davey" <da...@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:ji7ihi$j3p$1...@n102.xanadu-bbs.net...

I used to remove the roof from mine in the summer:-)

Mike

[Fredxx]

Commuting in a company van isn't a taxable benefit. So better still.

[tony sayer]

In article <ji6ikp$r2s$3...@dont-email.me>, gremlin_95
<daw**dseed@g**ail.com> scribeth thus

>On 23/02/2012 23:20, Newshound wrote
>
>IMHO most things with 80k miles on them, if they look reasonably tidy
>and havn't been mucked around with by boy racers, will probably be OK
>for the next 40k with no more than petrol, tyres, and the occasional
>battery or exhaust. You might have to replace the cam belt and one set
>of brakes.
>
>As for routing, I would go by time, but for you cost might be the
>driver. There's probably not much in it, all depends on the average
>speed and amount of stop-start on the different routes.
>
>
>Thank you, I honestly don't mind an old car and I am happy to keep an
>old car going (if it is economical to do so of course)
>
>I find new cars have no character compared to a nice old car.
>
>

Indeed;) My 17 year olde Audi A6 estate was clocked up some 200 K miles
and still drives fine. Passed the MOT the other week just a sidelight
bulb and a quick adjust of the handbrake and thats all fine..

--
Tony Sayer

[gremlin_95]

I know a lad on the same course as me (only he is doing it part time)
that got the same apprentice position I should be getting, they cover
his travel costs to college at least, don't think the work place is far
from where he lives though. The last time I checked he was on quite a
good wage as far as an apprentice is concerned :)

--
David

[gremlin_95]

<snip>

I am overwhelmed with all the replies, thanks a lot. I shall be taking
your advise into consideration and checking what I can do to make owning
a car affordable to me, if it just doesn't prove economical then I guess
will have to resort to using the bus. There is a fairly frequent service
that is quicker and cheaper than taking the train.


--
David

[Tim Downie]

gremlin_95 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what
> recommendations and advice people on here would give? It will be used
> for a lot motorway driving (commuting) due to the nature of the
> apprenticeship I should soon be getting :)
>
> I was looking at the Polo and Lupo from VW, the diesel versions as
> these seem to give better economy for longer journeys?
>
> I am not looking to buy new simply because I couldn't afford it.
>

> Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for me.
> Not worried about 'street cred' as such. I know insurance is going to
> be quite expensive though :(

Probably mentioned elsewhere but the 1.0L Toyota Yaris will fit the bill
regarding reliability, economy and insurance and are surprisingly nippy for
a 1L engine. Also completely lacking in "street cred" if that's what you're
after. ;-)

Tim

[tony sayer]

In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>, Dave
Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.co.uk> scribeth thus
>On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:32:44 +0000, gremlin_95 wrote:
>
>> About the box fitted to the car, my instructor was telling me it can be
>> cheaper but if I was to drive after 000 - 0500* I could get a fine,
>> there are also other limitations.
>
>That's why a said "look at", ie. read the small print.
>
>Strikes me as a bit harsh to be fined for using the car between
>midnight and 0500, an adjustment to the premium, if regular, I could
>understand but not for a single "out of pattern" use in that period.

I have been told that limitation applies to some young driver polices. I
can only suppose that a young lad out at night at weekends with his
mates in the motah is a larger risk that most all other times...

However with that limitation it did make quite some difference to the
premium charged which in practice is prolly the largest cost for the
younger driver these days..
--
Tony Sayer

[tony sayer]

In article <ji6hae$lvl$1...@dont-email.me>, gremlin_95
<daw**dseed@g**ail.com> scribeth thus

>On 23/02/2012 21:48, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>> In article<ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me>,

>> gremlin_95<daw**dseed@g**ail.com> writes:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I will soon be needing to buy my first car. I was wondering what

>>> I know insurance is going to be
>>> quite expensive though :(

>> If you're under 25, I would start by looking for insurance
>> you can afford. That might be as far as you get.
>>

>> If you can negotiate a company car (even in exchange for a
>> large reduction in wages), that might also work out much
>> cheaper.
>
>Thanks, I am 17 so insurance is very expensive, I am looking for part
>time work at the moment to save as much as I can so I don't have to make
>my parents pay every penny etc ...

Good lad. Now it is very difficult these days to get on the road. When I
started driving back in 1971 insurance wasn't anywhere near what it can
cost now even relative to earnings. I have heard quotes of up to several
thousand pounds for young new male drivers but as theres no smoke
without fire there must be a reason for it.

I think the answer lies somewhere in "compensation claim lawyers" at the
end of the day;!....

>>
>
>

--
Tony Sayer

[tony sayer]

In article <ji6p47$32v$3...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> scribeth thus
>Mark wrote:

>> gremlin_95 wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, I am 17 so insurance is very expensive, I am looking for part
>>> time work at the moment to save as much as I can so I don't have to make
>>> my parents pay every penny etc ...
>>

>> any saving you may make on MPG on buying a car will be far outweighed by the
>> insurance cost for a young driver in the first year.
>
>+101
>
>> so pick your first car by it’s insurance rating
>> see
>> http://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2007/06/top-ten-cars-for-teens-cheapest-
>> young.html
>
>Yep. Some of these tiddlers are really nice to drive - love the wife's
>old Punto...could throw that around easily. Made out of used bacofoil
>mind you, and bits kept falling off inside.
>
>

Also if our lads going about the A14 then he needs something like a tank
to survive that road to hell;!....
--
Tony Sayer

[tony sayer]

>The only thing I don't like about Japanese cars and some others (French
>I think?) is that they don't seem to have a very heavy solid feel to
>it, almost like they feel very err tinny? Like when you shut the door on
>my Dads Passat, it feels heavy and makes a thud, compare this to a
>Toyota I have worked on, all you get is a tiny clunk. Just a personal
>thing I guess.
>

Yes thats why I've always liked German built cars and owned a few
Passat's over time. One I had a 1991 registered, is still on the road as
is a very old Volvo 850 estate.

Even my set of wheels is now 17 years olde I really must get around to a
newer one so everyone sez, but while it keeps going and I can chuck a
load of building clobber in the back it will do fine:)
--
Tony Sayer

[tony sayer]

In article <tJWdndOCyaw0_9rS...@brightview.com>, MuddyMike
<ne...@mattishall.org.uk> scribeth thus

Dunno if the motor proctor would allow that is this manor;!...

>
>Mike
>
>

--
Tony Sayer

[tony sayer]

In article <ji7lcc$2uk8$1...@news.enta.net>, george [dicegeorge]
<diceg...@hotmail.com> scribeth thus

You cannot be serious;?...
--
Tony Sayer

[Andrew May]

On 24/02/2012 11:33, tony sayer wrote:

>
> Also if our lads going about the A14 then he needs something like a tank
> to survive that road to hell;!....

Although it does sound as if it is the other end of the A14 which I have
never found to be particularly bad.

[Davey]

I often wondered about that, but never did. But the chassis/body panel
construction should have made it safe.
My favourite memory is of buying an exhaust system, which came in one
piece, about nine feet long. I had freed the rear seat back (this was
before accommodation for skis was common), and a puzzled old couple
watched from the other side of the road as I inserted the whole exhaust
system into what looked, to them, like the boot of the car.
--
Davey.

[Davey]

I wonder where the western end is? I just know it from Felixstowe to
the A1(M).
"Here be Monsters" as you go west?
--
Davey.

[Davey]

From what I see, anything is cheaper than taking the train.

Also, congratulations on posting a question that appears to have *not*
deteriorated into unwanted abuse and name-calling! Well done, young man.
--
Davey.

[Andrew May]

I think this is the bit that the OP will be using. It joins up with the
M6 and M1. Don't think I have ever been held up on the A1=M1 section -
but not sure I have ever been on it in the rush hour.

[Doctor Drivel]

"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ITyBqvH0...@bancom.co.uk...
> In article <6c515238830b0d88...@tioat.net>, Doctor Drivel
> <inv...@not-for-mail.invalid> scribeth thus
>>
>>"gremlin_95" <daw**dseed@g**ail.com> wrote in message
>>news:ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me...

>>
>>> Reliability and fuel efficiency are the most important things for me.
>>

>>Buy a Toyota or Honda. The rest can't touch them.
>
> Electric ones of course;)...

That you. You are right.

[Tim Downie]

W*nker. ;-)

Tim

[gremlin_95]

It will be the A14 just after Junction 19 on the M1, looks like how you
describe on the map with it joining the M6 and M1 :)

--
David

[Jules Richardson]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 11:18:12 +0000, tony sayer wrote:
> Indeed;) My 17 year olde Audi A6 estate was clocked up some 200 K miles
> and still drives fine. Passed the MOT the other week just a sidelight
> bulb and a quick adjust of the handbrake and thats all fine..

Our Toyota's around 15 years and well over 200k; it needed a new battery
at something like 220k, but otherwise is still on original exhaust,
alternator, radiator etc.

Cam belt was due at 93k, but it's not broken yet.

I do need to replace most of the suspension bushes though, and it's
thirsty on oil these days. Cosmetically it's getting a little tired, but
then it has spent all of its life outside (my wife uses it for the
commute and doesn't like backing it out of the garage)

cheers

Jules

[gremlin_95]

On 24/02/2012 12:27, Davey wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 11:48:47 +0000
> gremlin_95<daw**dseed@g**ail.com> wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>>
>> I am overwhelmed with all the replies, thanks a lot. I shall be
>> taking your advise into consideration and checking what I can do to
>> make owning a car affordable to me, if it just doesn't prove
>> economical then I guess will have to resort to using the bus. There
>> is a fairly frequent service that is quicker and cheaper than taking
>> the train.
>>
>>
> From what I see, anything is cheaper than taking the train.

I currently take the train to college, £11.10! I can't get a season
ticket or anything as it is only 3 days a week and you can only get a 3
day ticket to London :(

Luckily though, the college give me some money for travel which covers
just over half the cost.

Thing is with the train, I can have a nice rest, read some notes if I
need to and now I shall be revising for my theory test. Downsides are,
apart from the cost, I am forced into listening to someone else's music
through their crap leaky headphones and the old Sprinter units are
freezing in the morning.

--
David

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:05:25 -0000, MuddyMike wrote:

> I think "solely for the purposes of reducing the premium." makes all the
> difference.

Quite probably but any sensible person does it so that in extremis
they can drive the car without having sort out insurance at 0300 on a
sunday morning. Don't they?

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:06:33 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

> I would wholeheartedly agree. I started my first pension scheme at age
> 19, ...

I joined the company scheme when I had to at 21 not when I joined the
company at 18. I reckon those 3 years of missing contributions have
reduced the (small) pension by a few thousand pounds. I only
contributed for 14 years.

> I would suggest putting a small proportion into higher risk investments.
> Given a good enough spread, which your advisor should arrange, the gains
> will outweigh the losses.

A "cautious" or "balanced" portfolio should do that. Ideally you
ought to take a test, forget the name, that asseses your aversion (or
not) to financial risk and then have a portfolio constructed over
several different types of investments and risks to match that
assesment.

It's also important to rebalance the holdings every year. Other wise
the proportion of the high risk / high return holdings may well mean
the overall protfolio shifts in risk, hopefully to higher risk which
you don't want.


> Note: this is not an option for anyone who frightens easily or who does
> not realise that you need to take a very long term view of pensions
> investments.

Aye, pensions is really long term, yep have some stuff that might
produce 25%/annum but stick most of it in known and established funds
that just plod along at a steady few percent above the general bank
savings rates.

> There is something to be said for not being able to get at your pension
> fund, even in times of need.

I'm thinking that the OP is still very young and probably has some
large costs coming up in the next 10 years, house, family, etc. Using
say an ISA "pension" fund to put a deposit on house is just moving
the investment. Pissing it up against the wall is not such a good
idea...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Nightjar]

On 24/02/2012 10:05, MuddyMike wrote:
> "Nightjar"<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:XfWdndMGa7T7x9rS...@giganews.com...
>> On 24/02/2012 07:55, MuddyMike wrote:
>>> "Nightjar"<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:pLadnXw3GZd3UdvS...@giganews.com...
>>>> On 23/02/2012 22:49, Dave Liquorice wrote:

>>>>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:48:33 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're under 25, I would start by looking for insurance you can
>>>>>> afford. That might be as far as you get.
>>>>>

>>>>> WHS. Putting two and two togther (gremlin_95& apprenticeship) we
>>>>> might be looking at a 17 year old. Half saw on the telly the other
>>>>> night possibly Superscrimpers that if a youngster adds an older
>>>>> person as a named driver to their insurance the premium drops.
>>>>
>>>> That requires that the named driver is a regular user of the car. If
>>>> not,
>>>> it is misrepresentation of material details, which will invalidate the
>>>> insurance.
>>>
>>> No, just occasional use will do. Driving the car back from
>>> station/airport
>>> once or twice a year for instance.
>>
>> To clarify: I am relaying a recent discussion on the radio in which an
>> insurance spokesman was talking specifically about the case where an older
>> named driver is included on the insurance of a young person solely for the

>> purposes of reducing the premium.
>
> I think "solely for the purposes of reducing the premium." makes all the
> difference.

I had assumed that was fairly obvious from the context that I was
responding to a suggestion that putting an older driver on the insurance
would reduce the premium. Evidently not.

Colin Bignell

[Andrew May]

On 24/02/2012 10:06, Nightjar wrote:

> There is something to be said for not being able to get at your pension
> fund, even in times of need.
>

Getting of topic now but does anyone know what the recommended pension
pot is nowadays? Ł1m in the bank would produce something like Ł10,000 in
interest if you are lucky. An annuity, hopefully a bit better.

[Davey]

There is also a problem on the A14 as it goes past Cambridge in the
rush hours, too much traffic for the available road. Luckily I can time
my trips to avoid this problem. But it's still not 'hell', there is the
M6 north of B'rum some years ago for my memory of that. Maybe that has
been relieved by the M6 Toll Road?
--
Davey.

[fred]

In article <ji6hte$p1f$1...@dont-email.me>, gremlin_95
<daw**dseed@g**ail.com> writes

>On 23/02/2012 22:37, fred wrote:
>> In article <ji6aa4$cst$1...@dont-email.me>, gremlin_95
>> <daw**dseed@g**ail.com> writes
>>>

>> It's been a while since I've been in that place but I would avoid the
>> brands (like VW) that have inflated 'value added' or popularity based
>> price differentials. If you want VeeDub type quality differentials,
>> look at alternate brands based on the same chassis and parts that have
>> lower brand image such as Seat or lower, search for VAG group common
>> chassis or similar terms.
>
>Ah, like Seat, Skoda etc? My Dad has been driving VW's for a long time
>now and has not really had any problems, hence me wanting to get one too
>but I am happy to look at others based on the same chasis like you said.
>>
Yep, they're all part of the VW audi group and they make huge economies
of scale by using common parts across many ranges. I'd certainly
consider Seat vs VW but don't know how many corners get cut as they drop
to Skoda etc. That said, lots of licensed private hire cars around here
are Skodas, they're bound to be doing a lot of miles and can't afford to
have cars off the road.

>> Similarly avoid brands with inflated servicing costs, particularly
>> those that require specialist tools for servicing (notably Citroen),
>> and self service or get it serviced in the back streets from a
>> carefully chosen garage.
>
>I believe it's not really the best practice to get it serviced at a main
>dealer?
>>
>> While I would normally put Toyotas in the high service cost band I
>> have one rellie who bought a 6-12mth old ex driving school Yaris a few
>> years back and is very happy with it, no probs on longish trips.
>> Another has had no probs with a similar Corsa (although watch out for
>> inflated purchase price due to laddish popularity).
>>
>> As another has said, get a list of cars in the lowest insurance groups
>> and make your first choice from them, if you're young then the ongoing
>> savings there will likely outweigh most savings in initial purchase
>> price.

>
>
>The only thing I don't like about Japanese cars and some others (French
>I think?) is that they don't seem to have a very heavy solid feel to
>it, almost like they feel very err tinny? Like when you shut the door on
>my Dads Passat, it feels heavy and makes a thud, compare this to a
>Toyota I have worked on, all you get is a tiny clunk. Just a personal
>thing I guess.
>

Yes, I know what you mean, I think the body metal is thinner so can
sound tinny and can mark more easily in car park door opening dings.
They also have drier weather out there so for a while didn't really
understand about rustproofing the way europeans did/do. I have however
used loads of long lived japanese cars and they don't seem to fall apart
but the ancillaries just seem to get tatty quite quickly.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

[tony sayer]

In article <9qpd44...@mid.individual.net>, Andrew May
<andrew...@hotmail.com> scribeth thus

Umm it has two ends sure .. so which end>
--
Tony Sayer

[fred]

In article <ji6mc3$fr2$1...@dont-email.me>, Andrew Gabriel
<and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <ji6giv$gg7$2...@dont-email.me>,
> Fredxx <fre...@nospam.com> writes:
>> On 23/02/2012 22:43, fred wrote:
>>>>
>>> I think the tax on benefits in kind associated with company car
>>> provision far outweigh any saving achieved, that was certainly the case
>>> when I made choices on such matters.
>>
>> Taxable benefits don't take into account the insurance premium for a
>> teenager, so might be a cost effective solution.
>
>That was my thinking. ~15 years ago, I was working with lots of
>young computer programmers (although mostly older than 25), and
>anyone interested in a sporty car took the company car option,
>because you would never be able to afford the insurance yourself.
>OTOH, if you just wanted a Ford Fiesta, it was cheaper not to use
>the company car option.
>
I think it was about 15yrs ago that the rules changed to base the hmrc
benefit on a proportion of the new value of the car you chose. I think
it was about a third of the new price each year (w/o any allowance for
depreciation) so if you had an 18k car you had a benefit loading of 6k
per year, every year that you had the benefit. Same thing if you bought
a 5yo car that cost 18k new, you got hit with a benefit of 6k no matter
what the age. For those who had a choice, coy cars went out of vogue in
short order.

I switched to personal ownership plus mileage.

[Nightjar]

On 24/02/2012 14:17, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:06:33 +0000, Nightjar wrote:
>
>> I would wholeheartedly agree. I started my first pension scheme at age
>> 19, ...
>
> I joined the company scheme when I had to at 21 not when I joined the
> company at 18. I reckon those 3 years of missing contributions have
> reduced the (small) pension by a few thousand pounds. I only
> contributed for 14 years.

I was still at university, but, when I worked out what a state pension
would buy, thought it was worth starting a private pension scheme with
whatever I could afford at the time.

>> I would suggest putting a small proportion into higher risk investments.
>> Given a good enough spread, which your advisor should arrange, the gains
>> will outweigh the losses.
>
> A "cautious" or "balanced" portfolio should do that. Ideally you
> ought to take a test, forget the name, that asseses your aversion (or
> not) to financial risk and then have a portfolio constructed over
> several different types of investments and risks to match that
> assesment.
>
> It's also important to rebalance the holdings every year. Other wise
> the proportion of the high risk / high return holdings may well mean
> the overall protfolio shifts in risk, hopefully to higher risk which
> you don't want.

This is where it is important to get an independent financial advisor to
match the investments to your aversion to risk. I would not dream of
rebalancing the holdings every year. I fully expect the high risk
investments to take a fairly heavy hit at the beginning and seeing that
in black and white (or red) every year might tempt me to get out of them
before the long term gains start to kick in.

>> Note: this is not an option for anyone who frightens easily or who does
>> not realise that you need to take a very long term view of pensions
>> investments.
>
> Aye, pensions is really long term, yep have some stuff that might
> produce 25%/annum but stick most of it in known and established funds
> that just plod along at a steady few percent above the general bank
> savings rates.
>
>> There is something to be said for not being able to get at your pension
>> fund, even in times of need.
>
> I'm thinking that the OP is still very young and probably has some
> large costs coming up in the next 10 years, house, family, etc. Using
> say an ISA "pension" fund to put a deposit on house is just moving
> the investment. Pissing it up against the wall is not such a good
> idea...

There are other pension schemes that would allow that. My main pension
is from a small self-managed scheme, which allowed me (with the
statutory requirement of approval from a pension provider after Robert
Maxwell fell off his boat) to make loans and to buy property, as well as
making more conventional investments.

Colin Bignell

[The Natural Philosopher]

Andrew May wrote:
> On 24/02/2012 10:06, Nightjar wrote:
>
>> There is something to be said for not being able to get at your pension
>> fund, even in times of need.
>>
>
> Getting of topic now but does anyone know what the recommended pension

> pot is nowadays? £1m in the bank would produce something like £10,000 in

> interest if you are lucky. An annuity, hopefully a bit better.
>
>
>

£1m in the bank will give you 20 years of £50k without interest at all..

[Nightjar]

On 24/02/2012 14:37, Andrew May wrote:

> Getting of topic now but does anyone know what the recommended pension

> pot is nowadays? £1m in the bank would produce something like £10,000 in

> interest if you are lucky. An annuity, hopefully a bit better.

You can also take a drawdown pension which should yield more than an
annuity. The amount you can take depends upon the size of the pot and
the current Gilt Index Yield. Look at this page for more details and for
a calculator to help you estimate what you need, but bear in mind that
the rules and the Gilt Index Yield change.

http://www.invidion.co.uk/pension_fund_withdrawal_calculator.php

Colin Bignell

[Nightjar]

On 24/02/2012 14:58, fred wrote:
...

> Yep, they're all part of the VW audi group and they make huge economies
> of scale by using common parts across many ranges. I'd certainly
> consider Seat vs VW but don't know how many corners get cut as they drop
> to Skoda etc. That said, lots of licensed private hire cars around here
> are Skodas, they're bound to be doing a lot of miles and can't afford to
> have cars off the road.

...

Skoda suddenly became very popular for minicabs when they introduced an
unlimited mileage guarantee. I believe they have modified it now.

Colin Bignell

[djc]

On 23/02/12 23:38, gremlin_95 wrote:
> On 23/02/2012 23:20, Newshound wrote
>
> IMHO most things with 80k miles on them, if they look reasonably tidy
> and havn't been mucked around with by boy racers, will probably be OK
> for the next 40k with no more than petrol, tyres, and the occasional
> battery or exhaust. You might have to replace the cam belt and one set
> of brakes.

> Thank you, I honestly don't mind an old car and I am happy to keep an
> old car going (if it is economical to do so of course)
>
> I find new cars have no character compared to a nice old car.

My 18 year old Twingo went to the scrapyard last month after more than
150,000 miles. Mechanically fine but the cost of the welding neded to
pass the MOT meant evn I had to accept it was uneconomic. Replaced with
a Citroën C2, which is probably more frugal on fuel, but is slightly
larger outside, much smaller inside and has a poorer power to weight ration.

At least cars these days don't rust as much as they used to the Renault
5 I had from new in the late 70's had visible rust after just five years.

My advice would be that high mileage is ok provided it has been used for
long steady journeys rather that in-town start-stop, and a few minor
dents, so long as they don't rust, are part of the character.

But you probably need to start by looking at insurance quotes. Quotes
for the C2, which is supposed to be group 1 etc for a 57 year with 15+
years NCD etc ranged from £300 to over £1200. As a young driver,
insurance may cost you more than the car.



--
djc

[The Natural Philosopher]

The non turbo diesel skoda engine - think it was a 1400 - was absolutely
the best ever cab diesel. Gutless but frugal in the extreme. LOVED
idling at a small fuel consumption. Loved being light footed around
towns. Lated FOREVER with no turbo..

Sadly they don't make it any more.


> Colin Bignell

[Andrew May]

The end which is not the Cambridge end. Dunno about the road it Ipswich
I have no reason to go there :-)