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tiling faqs
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Fred
Jun 26, 2012, 6:34:24 AM6/26/12
to
Hi,
As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
relative do some tiling.
I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
copied and pasted into a new section?
I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps
we could include:
Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge
paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room.
Rules of thumb about the space between tiles?
What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used
for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with
10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better?
I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for?
A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined
adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could
result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that
mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always
used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they
better, and how to mix them?
Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood.
Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same
batch to avoid variation in colour.
Here are a couple of questions that would really help me:
I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I
do first, or doesn't it matter?
I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles
will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but...
If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete
tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a
quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an
advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments
if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones >10mm seen
as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under
and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should
I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door?
Well, there's a few things to start with ;)
As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
relative do some tiling.
I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
copied and pasted into a new section?
I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps
we could include:
Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge
paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room.
Rules of thumb about the space between tiles?
What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used
for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with
10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better?
I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for?
A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined
adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could
result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that
mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always
used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they
better, and how to mix them?
Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood.
Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same
batch to avoid variation in colour.
Here are a couple of questions that would really help me:
I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I
do first, or doesn't it matter?
I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles
will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but...
If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete
tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a
quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an
advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments
if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones >10mm seen
as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under
and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should
I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door?
Well, there's a few things to start with ;)
Tim Watts
Jun 26, 2012, 6:52:36 AM6/26/12
to
Fred wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
> copied and pasted into a new section?
>
> I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps
> we could include:
>
> Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge
> paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room.
Well, the Romans did - but we are talking proper mosaics that formed a huge
> Hi,
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
> copied and pasted into a new section?
>
> I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps
> we could include:
>
> Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge
> paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room.
picture, rather than just a wibbly repeating pattern :)
>
> Rules of thumb about the space between tiles?
300mm Floor tiles - less than you think - about 3-4mm at most. If the tile
has bevelled edges, the grout joing becomes wider than the actual gap.
> What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used
> for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with
> 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better?
1/2 the notch depth assuming 50/50 square notches. Semi circles can be
easier with heavy duty adhesive whilst maintaining a thinner bed. 1cm square
notches or equiv semicircular usually works well for floors.
> I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for?
> A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined
> adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could
> result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that
> mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always
> used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they
> better, and how to mix them?
convenient.
> Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood.
poweders can be made into flexible by using one of teh manufacturer's admix
liquids. Or you can buy flex in powder ready to go, or even tub premixed,
which is OK for wall work (eg onto ply panel).
> Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same
> batch to avoid variation in colour.
differences will be less noticeable.
> Here are a couple of questions that would really help me:
>
> I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I
> do first, or doesn't it matter?
tiles down to the floor tiles leaving a 4mm or so gap for silicone (or MS
polymer) bead. If using tub adhesive for walls (which seems fine if the
adhesive is good stuff, eg BAL) then wall tiling tends to be less messy than
floor tiling - the worst part is the grouting but that's easily wiped off
the floor during the wipe off/polishing stage.
Personally I always use power grouts even for walls as the grout is the
first defence against water and unlike adhesive, it's easy to mix as you
usually only need a large bowl full at time rather than by the bucket. I
have hand mixed grouts with a stainless cooking bowl and woodlen spoon
without issue.
Mixing a bucket of adhesive is better done with a power mixer on a drill.
BAL Greenstar IME has a nice "grab" whilst still alowing tweaking for a good
few minutes.
New polished plaster should be scratched (or sponged whilst being
plastered). If you have new plaster, run over with a steel wire brush to
break teh glaze and coat with dilute SBR (or plaster sealer) - this is from
BAL Greenstar's instructions. This really helps the adhesion and SBR will
waterpoof the plaster to some extent too.
> I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles
> will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but...
walls, draw a tile to scale (including one grout line width top and right)
then replicate a load and tweak until it looks right. This is an excellent
way of laying out a pattern too.
> If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete
> tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end
unless there is an aesthetic reason (patterns) not to. I always try to have
a full tile on external edges, even if using tile edge strip - the bevelled
edge makes for a better grout line in a highly visble zone.
Internal edges take cut edges just fine and grout nicely.
> or would you take a
> quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an
> advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments
> if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones >10mm seen
> as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under
> and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should
> I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door?
>
> Well, there's a few things to start with ;)
changing to fresh water in the bucket. Makes applying/cleaning/polishing so
much easier.
There's loads more you can say - but that's all I can think ofright now -
others will be along...
--
Tim Watts
Andrew Gabriel
Jun 26, 2012, 7:38:29 AM6/26/12
to
In article <oo1ju7tn6io58rjus...@4ax.com>,
so you can see plenty of repeating pattern, and I think it makes
the room look bigger. Conversely, in a really small kitchen, I have
seen very large tiles used, and it made the room feel minute.
Note that laying a tile takes the same length of time regardless of
size, so tiling a room in 20x20cm tiles will take over twice as long
as tiling it in 30x30cm tiles.
> Rules of thumb about the space between tiles?
That's a matter of style.
Likewise, for choice of grout colour.
You can use more than one grout colour too (I have with some wall
tiles, when using a different colour dado rail tile).
> What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used
> for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with
> 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better?
>
> I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for?
>
> A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined
> adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could
> result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that
> mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always
> used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they
> better, and how to mix them?
I always use the powdered adhesive and (separate) powdered grout.
I suspect the fast setting and ready-mixed are compromise products,
but as I'm not paying for my time, that's a compromise I don't have
to make.
I also add a waterproofing admix to the grout, certainly in a shower.
(Can't remember if I did for the kitchen floor.) It's expensive, but
a tiny bottle does loads of grouting.
There are also resin based grouts, generally used in food
preparation areas (e.g. if you want a tiled worktop) because
they are completely non-porous. Never used them myself though.
> Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood.
Yes, but regardless of what it says on the tin, they don't work
directly on floorboards. Need to use a plywood base.
> Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same
> batch to avoid variation in colour.
Mix packets in any case. Depends on how noticable any colour
difference is going to show. Also, check carefully for any
damaged ones. It annoys me that one of my bathroom tiles has
a dent on the face (done before being glazed), and I didn't
notice until it was all finished.
> Here are a couple of questions that would really help me:
>
> I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I
> do first, or doesn't it matter?
>
> I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles
> will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but...
>
> If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete
> tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a
> quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an
It depends how square the corner is (corners usually aren't
very square). If you start with a whole tile in a corner, and
as you work your way up, you find the gap growing, it's much
harder to fix than if you are cutting all the edge tiles to
fit anyway.
> advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments
> if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones >10mm seen
> as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under
> and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should
> I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door?
>
> Well, there's a few things to start with ;)
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Fred <fr...@no-email.here.invalid> writes:
> Hi,
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
> copied and pasted into a new section?
>
> I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps
> we could include:
>
> Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge
> paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room.
In a small kitchen, I deliberately chose smaller tiles (20cm sq),
> Hi,
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
> copied and pasted into a new section?
>
> I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps
> we could include:
>
> Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge
> paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room.
so you can see plenty of repeating pattern, and I think it makes
the room look bigger. Conversely, in a really small kitchen, I have
seen very large tiles used, and it made the room feel minute.
Note that laying a tile takes the same length of time regardless of
size, so tiling a room in 20x20cm tiles will take over twice as long
as tiling it in 30x30cm tiles.
> Rules of thumb about the space between tiles?
Likewise, for choice of grout colour.
You can use more than one grout colour too (I have with some wall
tiles, when using a different colour dado rail tile).
> What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used
> for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with
> 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better?
>
> I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for?
>
> A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined
> adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could
> result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that
> mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always
> used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they
> better, and how to mix them?
I suspect the fast setting and ready-mixed are compromise products,
but as I'm not paying for my time, that's a compromise I don't have
to make.
I also add a waterproofing admix to the grout, certainly in a shower.
(Can't remember if I did for the kitchen floor.) It's expensive, but
a tiny bottle does loads of grouting.
There are also resin based grouts, generally used in food
preparation areas (e.g. if you want a tiled worktop) because
they are completely non-porous. Never used them myself though.
> Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood.
directly on floorboards. Need to use a plywood base.
> Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same
> batch to avoid variation in colour.
difference is going to show. Also, check carefully for any
damaged ones. It annoys me that one of my bathroom tiles has
a dent on the face (done before being glazed), and I didn't
notice until it was all finished.
> Here are a couple of questions that would really help me:
>
> I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I
> do first, or doesn't it matter?
>
> I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles
> will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but...
>
> If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete
> tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a
> quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an
very square). If you start with a whole tile in a corner, and
as you work your way up, you find the gap growing, it's much
harder to fix than if you are cutting all the edge tiles to
fit anyway.
> advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments
> if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones >10mm seen
> as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under
> and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should
> I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door?
>
> Well, there's a few things to start with ;)
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Andrew Gabriel
Jun 26, 2012, 7:53:00 AM6/26/12
to
Something else I've been careful about - getting adjacent tiles
level with each other. I've seen plenty of examples of professional
tiling where that's not been done, and it really shows (to me anyway).
You just need a short piece of wood (perhaps 1.5 tiles long)
which you can lay on the tile as you tap it into the adhesive
bed, so you can see when it's level with the next tile(s).
level with each other. I've seen plenty of examples of professional
tiling where that's not been done, and it really shows (to me anyway).
You just need a short piece of wood (perhaps 1.5 tiles long)
which you can lay on the tile as you tap it into the adhesive
bed, so you can see when it's level with the next tile(s).
Nightjar
Jun 26, 2012, 8:52:47 AM6/26/12
to
On 26/06/2012 11:34, Fred wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
> copied and pasted into a new section?
>
> I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps
> we could include:
>
> Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge
> paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room....
> Hi,
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
> copied and pasted into a new section?
>
> I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps
> we could include:
>
> Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge
That is a matter of interior design and one thing about interior design
is that if there are any rules they are there to be broken, under the
right circumstance.
Colin Bignell
Nightjar
Jun 26, 2012, 8:57:45 AM6/26/12
to
On 26/06/2012 12:53, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> Something else I've been careful about - getting adjacent tiles
> level with each other. I've seen plenty of examples of professional
> tiling where that's not been done, and it really shows (to me anyway).
> You just need a short piece of wood (perhaps 1.5 tiles long)
> which you can lay on the tile as you tap it into the adhesive
> bed, so you can see when it's level with the next tile(s).
>
Fit a levelled batten to the wall, with the top of the batten one tile
> Something else I've been careful about - getting adjacent tiles
> level with each other. I've seen plenty of examples of professional
> tiling where that's not been done, and it really shows (to me anyway).
> You just need a short piece of wood (perhaps 1.5 tiles long)
> which you can lay on the tile as you tap it into the adhesive
> bed, so you can see when it's level with the next tile(s).
>
up, and lay everything upwards from that. If you use tile spacers,
having all rows level should follow from that. It also avoids tiling
around the room and finding that the tiles don't meet at the same
height. Once everything has set, remove the batten and finish off the
bottom row.
Colin Bignell
Andrew May
Jun 26, 2012, 9:46:41 AM6/26/12
to
same where each adjacent tile lines up with the ones next to it but such
that any reflection in the tile is different in each tile. A bit like a
true leaded-light window.
John Rumm
Jun 26, 2012, 11:19:28 AM6/26/12
to
On 26/06/2012 13:57, Nightjar wrote:
for setting out the battens.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
John Rumm
Jun 26, 2012, 11:35:34 AM6/26/12
to
On 26/06/2012 11:34, Fred wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
Yes good point. There used to be some pointers to external sites IIRC.
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
> copied and pasted into a new section?
account ;-)
> I don't know many answers but I can think of a few questions! Perhaps
> we could include:
>
> Are there any rules of thumb about tile size? Eg don't have huge
> paving slabs in a tiny room, nor mosaics in a huge room.
the tile, the flatter the walls need to be though.
> Rules of thumb about the space between tiles?
floors. Tiles with a "waney" edge may well need more.
> What trowel to use to apply adhesive. I know 6mm square edge is used
> for wall tiles. I'm unsure about floor tiles as I have seen some with
> 10mm squares and others with large semicircles: which is better?
on how much levelling you are needing to do.
> I've also seen some trowels with V-shaped edges; what are they for?
> A discussion on types of adhesive. I know not to use a combined
> adhesive and grout because it takes forever to set and that could
> result in your tiles moving (I did this once and have learnt from that
> mistake). I've used separate adhesive and grout since but I've always
the "grab" of a good adhesive IME.
> used ready mixed. Perhaps a discussion about powdered ones, are they
> better, and how to mix them?
mixed are usually acrylic and set by "drying out" - hence the problem of
slow cure times on impervious backgrounds.
If mixing any quantity, then a flexibly trug type mixing bucket and a
mixing paddle in a drill works well for upto 20 - 30kg at a time.
> Use flexible adhesive for tiling on wood.
> Buy all tiles at the same time and make sure they are from the same
> batch to avoid variation in colour.
laying so the changes are spread around somewhat randomly.
> Here are a couple of questions that would really help me:
> I have been asked to tile both the wall and the floor. Which should I
> do first, or doesn't it matter?
or dropping a tile on it!
> I know you should plan (use a batten with markings) where the tiles
> will be so that you do not need 1/2" thick tiles in a corner but...
things will end up.
> If a wall is say, ten and a half tiles long, would you use a complete
> tile at one end and a half a tile at the other end or would you take a
> quarter off the first and last tile? I'm wondering whether it is an
> advantage to cut both end tiles as that way you can make adjustments
> if the wall is not straight. OTOH are half-tiles, even ones >10mm seen
> as a faux pas? In which case, would you try to have full tiles under
> and around a window and a door, rather than having to cut them? Should
> I try to hide any half tiles behind the toilet and behind the door?
> Well, there's a few things to start with ;)
one end can look ok, especially if you can use the other half to carry
on the adjacent wall - then it looks like your tile goes round the
corner. However you have to take care to check the walls a plumb. A half
tile at one end, and then widening slip of a tile for half the wall
height at the other would look far less attractive than a quarter wither
end. When things are running out of square, its easier to eye up the
error when lines that should be parallel are close to each other.
Nightjar
Jun 26, 2012, 12:44:08 PM6/26/12
to
Nevertheless, I hope my suggestion is useful to the faq.
Colin Bignell
NT
Jun 26, 2012, 12:56:58 PM6/26/12
to
Adhesive
Grout
Lithofin et al
Tile size
Tile spacing
Substrate (choice & preparation)
Layout styles (square, mosaic, gaudi, diagonal etc)
Tile cutting - can just link to existing wiki article
Quantity estimating
Cost cutting (cement as adhesive, gaudi style, cleaning used tiles
etc)
Corners (plastic strip, round edged tiles, bare biscuit)
Pros and cons of tiles
Its a lot to cover in one article, especially as there are multiple
options for most of those headings. Covering any of it is all good
stuff.
NT
Nospam
Jun 26, 2012, 1:27:58 PM6/26/12
to
> Layout styles (square, mosaic, gaudi, diagonal etc)
> Tile cutting - can just link to existing wiki article
> Quantity estimating
> Cost cutting (cement as adhesive, gaudi style, cleaning used tiles
> etc)
> Corners (plastic strip, round edged tiles, bare biscuit)
> Pros and cons of tiles
>
> Its a lot to cover in one article, especially as there are multiple
> options for most of those headings. Covering any of it is all good
> stuff.
>
>
> NT
I didn't recognise the term "bare biscuit" so Googled it - my education
> Tile cutting - can just link to existing wiki article
> Quantity estimating
> Cost cutting (cement as adhesive, gaudi style, cleaning used tiles
> etc)
> Corners (plastic strip, round edged tiles, bare biscuit)
> Pros and cons of tiles
>
> Its a lot to cover in one article, especially as there are multiple
> options for most of those headings. Covering any of it is all good
> stuff.
>
>
> NT
has been broadened but I don't see that it's got a lot to do with tiling !!
NT
Jun 26, 2012, 3:00:13 PM6/26/12
to
. ______________
. |______________
. | |
. | |
. | |
A corner arrangement like that leaves the biscut bare
NT
Fred
Jun 26, 2012, 3:45:13 PM6/26/12
to
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:35:34 +0100, John Rumm
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
[about V-notch trowels]
>Not seen one...
To answer my own question, it seems they are used for mosaics:
http://www.tilegiant.co.uk/3mm-v-notched-trowel.html
Perhaps it is easier to make them V-shaped rather than square because
at that small size the "teeth" of a square version might get bent out
of alignment too easily?
There is also a trowel with 45 degree teeth:
http://www.protilertools.co.uk/rubi-45%C2%B0-trowels/1838/rubi-6mm-x-6mm-45%C2%B0-steel-trowel-75946
I'm not quite sure what the advantage of that is?
[about half tiles]
space! Sorry for not making that clear. I was meaning that if a wall
had to have a half tile at the end of a row, should I make sure that
the half tile would be behind the door or behind the toilet, where it
would be less visible?
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
[about V-notch trowels]
>Not seen one...
To answer my own question, it seems they are used for mosaics:
http://www.tilegiant.co.uk/3mm-v-notched-trowel.html
Perhaps it is easier to make them V-shaped rather than square because
at that small size the "teeth" of a square version might get bent out
of alignment too easily?
There is also a trowel with 45 degree teeth:
http://www.protilertools.co.uk/rubi-45%C2%B0-trowels/1838/rubi-6mm-x-6mm-45%C2%B0-steel-trowel-75946
I'm not quite sure what the advantage of that is?
[about half tiles]
>What all the spare left over broken bits - na someone will notice!
I wasn't suggesting using the two leftover halves to fill a one tile
space! Sorry for not making that clear. I was meaning that if a wall
had to have a half tile at the end of a row, should I make sure that
the half tile would be behind the door or behind the toilet, where it
would be less visible?
Fred
Jun 26, 2012, 3:54:04 PM6/26/12
to
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:27:58 +0100, Nospam <Nom...@hursley.ibm.com>
wrote:
>I didn't recognise the term "bare biscuit" so Googled it - my education
>has been broadened but I don't see that it's got a lot to do with tiling !!
The biscuit is the piece of clay that the tile is made from. Usually
it is a salmon colour. The front and sides of the tile are covered by
the glaze but it is what you see when you look at the back of the
tile. If you cut a tile, you remove the glazed edge and the biscuit
becomes visible.
I think biscuit is French for twice cooked. I guess the clay is baked
once to make a hard tile and then has the glaze applied and is baked a
second time to set the glaze.
If you are tiling around a window recess or other external corner, you
might use a trim to hide the edge of the tile.I think NT was
suggesting that you might deliberately not use plastic trim and leave
the biscuit exposed, hence "bare biscuit".
I typed it into google thinking you had found something naughty but
all I found was talk about digestives, custard creams, etc.
HTH
wrote:
>I didn't recognise the term "bare biscuit" so Googled it - my education
>has been broadened but I don't see that it's got a lot to do with tiling !!
it is a salmon colour. The front and sides of the tile are covered by
the glaze but it is what you see when you look at the back of the
tile. If you cut a tile, you remove the glazed edge and the biscuit
becomes visible.
I think biscuit is French for twice cooked. I guess the clay is baked
once to make a hard tile and then has the glaze applied and is baked a
second time to set the glaze.
If you are tiling around a window recess or other external corner, you
might use a trim to hide the edge of the tile.I think NT was
suggesting that you might deliberately not use plastic trim and leave
the biscuit exposed, hence "bare biscuit".
I typed it into google thinking you had found something naughty but
all I found was talk about digestives, custard creams, etc.
HTH
Fred
Jun 26, 2012, 3:56:05 PM6/26/12
to
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:19:28 +0100, John Rumm
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>One of those cases where the rotating spot laser levels are quite handy
>for setting out the battens.
I think in their final days Focus were selling these for �5 but I
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>One of those cases where the rotating spot laser levels are quite handy
>for setting out the battens.
never got around to buying one. I have got a non-rotating B&D one
which is quite useful for this kind of thing. Does a rotating one have
any advantage? I guess it does all four walls in one go?
Nospam
Jun 26, 2012, 5:10:00 PM6/26/12
to
On 26/06/2012 20:54, Fred wrote:
... snipped
the results were in the "very naughty" category
... but now I understand what was originally meant, as well as feeling
slightly inadequate in other departments ;-(
... snipped
>
> I typed it into google thinking you had found something naughty but
> all I found was talk about digestives, custard creams, etc.
>
> HTH
You must have a filter ... I searched for <tiling "bare biscuit"> and
> I typed it into google thinking you had found something naughty but
> all I found was talk about digestives, custard creams, etc.
>
> HTH
the results were in the "very naughty" category
... but now I understand what was originally meant, as well as feeling
slightly inadequate in other departments ;-(
John Rumm
Jun 26, 2012, 10:46:47 PM6/26/12
to
the ends will join up. (also quite handy when working alone, since you
don't need to point it at your target as you move about to set out)
John Rumm
Jun 26, 2012, 10:51:36 PM6/26/12
to
On 26/06/2012 20:45, Fred wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:35:34 +0100, John Rumm
> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
> [about V-notch trowels]
>
>> Not seen one...
>
> To answer my own question, it seems they are used for mosaics:
>
> http://www.tilegiant.co.uk/3mm-v-notched-trowel.html
>
> Perhaps it is easier to make them V-shaped rather than square because
> at that small size the "teeth" of a square version might get bent out
> of alignment too easily?
I would imagine its just to place smaller beads - which might make it
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:35:34 +0100, John Rumm
> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
> [about V-notch trowels]
>
>> Not seen one...
>
> To answer my own question, it seems they are used for mosaics:
>
> http://www.tilegiant.co.uk/3mm-v-notched-trowel.html
>
> Perhaps it is easier to make them V-shaped rather than square because
> at that small size the "teeth" of a square version might get bent out
> of alignment too easily?
easier to level very small (i.e. mosaic) tiles, where a conventional
notched trowel could leave some completely unglued.
> There is also a trowel with 45 degree teeth:
> http://www.protilertools.co.uk/rubi-45%C2%B0-trowels/1838/rubi-6mm-x-6mm-45%C2%B0-steel-trowel-75946
>
> I'm not quite sure what the advantage of that is?
the trowel...
> [about half tiles]
>> What all the spare left over broken bits - na someone will notice!
>
> I wasn't suggesting using the two leftover halves to fill a one tile
> space! Sorry for not making that clear. I was meaning that if a wall
offcuts piled up behind the loo! ;-)
> had to have a half tile at the end of a row, should I make sure that
> the half tile would be behind the door or behind the toilet, where it
> would be less visible?
as you walk in the room (or for that matter while "contemplating" on the
throne!)
NT
Jun 27, 2012, 2:08:10 AM6/27/12
to
On Jun 27, 3:51 am, John Rumm <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 26/06/2012 20:45, Fred wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:35:34 +0100, John Rumm
> > <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
> > [about V-notch trowels]
>
> >> Not seen one...
>
> > To answer my own question, it seems they are used for mosaics:
>
> >http://www.tilegiant.co.uk/3mm-v-notched-trowel.html
>
> > Perhaps it is easier to make them V-shaped rather than square because
> > at that small size the "teeth" of a square version might get bent out
> > of alignment too easily?
>
> I would imagine its just to place smaller beads - which might make it
> easier to level very small (i.e. mosaic) tiles, where a conventional
> notched trowel could leave some completely unglued.
>
> > There is also a trowel with 45 degree teeth:
> >http://www.protilertools.co.uk/rubi-45%C2%B0-trowels/1838/rubi-6mm-x-...
> On 26/06/2012 20:45, Fred wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:35:34 +0100, John Rumm
> > <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
> > [about V-notch trowels]
>
> >> Not seen one...
>
> > To answer my own question, it seems they are used for mosaics:
>
> >http://www.tilegiant.co.uk/3mm-v-notched-trowel.html
>
> > Perhaps it is easier to make them V-shaped rather than square because
> > at that small size the "teeth" of a square version might get bent out
> > of alignment too easily?
>
> I would imagine its just to place smaller beads - which might make it
> easier to level very small (i.e. mosaic) tiles, where a conventional
> notched trowel could leave some completely unglued.
>
> > There is also a trowel with 45 degree teeth:
>
> > I'm not quite sure what the advantage of that is?
>
> Means you cant stick down too shallow a bead by using a shallow angle on
> the trowel...
>
> > [about half tiles]
> >> What all the spare left over broken bits - na someone will notice!
>
> > I wasn't suggesting using the two leftover halves to fill a one tile
> > space! Sorry for not making that clear. I was meaning that if a wall
>
> Tis ok, I was not being serious - it could be read as leaving all the
> offcuts piled up behind the loo! ;-)
>
> > had to have a half tile at the end of a row, should I make sure that
> > the half tile would be behind the door or behind the toilet, where it
> > would be less visible?
>
> Generally its a good idea not to place the ugly bits where you see them
> as you walk in the room (or for that matter while "contemplating" on the
> throne!)
Its often a good idea to start tiling at the cenrte of a run, so you
> > I'm not quite sure what the advantage of that is?
>
> Means you cant stick down too shallow a bead by using a shallow angle on
> the trowel...
>
> > [about half tiles]
> >> What all the spare left over broken bits - na someone will notice!
>
> > I wasn't suggesting using the two leftover halves to fill a one tile
> > space! Sorry for not making that clear. I was meaning that if a wall
>
> Tis ok, I was not being serious - it could be read as leaving all the
> offcuts piled up behind the loo! ;-)
>
> > had to have a half tile at the end of a row, should I make sure that
> > the half tile would be behind the door or behind the toilet, where it
> > would be less visible?
>
> Generally its a good idea not to place the ugly bits where you see them
> as you walk in the room (or for that matter while "contemplating" on the
> throne!)
get the same size offcuts each end. Mirrors look better when the
tiling behind them is symmetrical to the mirror. None of these things
are hard fast rules, just see what looks best.
NT
NT
Jun 27, 2012, 1:29:44 PM6/27/12
to
On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred <f...@no-email.here.invalid> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
> copied and pasted into a new section?
Its a start...
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
> copied and pasted into a new section?
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Tiling_FAQ#Rounded_edge_tiles
NT
==Adhesive types==
===Powder or tub===
Premixed tubs are convenient and more expensive, and don't store as
well. Once opened they tend to set over a few days.
===Dual purpose grout & adhesive===
Products intended to do both do both poorly. Not recommended.
===Water resistant===
Water resistant adhesive is needed for shower and over bath use. More
basic types fall off after a bit.
===Sand and cement===
3:1 sand and cement has long been used to lay tiles.
* Very cheap
* Strong & durable
* Unaffected by [[water]]
* The tiles must be soaked in water overnight.
* The main downsides are the short open time and long cure time.
** Only set out a smallish area at a time
** Smooth the surface
** Place tiles on promptly.
* For floor tiles, keep foot traffic off for 3 days
* Not a popular method any more, modern tile adhesives are easier to
work with.
===Epoxy===
[[Epoxy]] grout is primarily for swimming pools. Its pricey.
Durability is excellent.
==Adhesive laying==
Wall tiles on an even surface use a notched adhesive bed, applied with
a notched edge. Plastic spreaders soon wear out, use a metal one.
Wall tiles on an uneven surface use 5 blobs of adhesive per tile. This
gives much more adjustability. The end result isn't quite as
abuseproof, as there are unsupported spaces behind the tile, but its
not usually an issue.
Floor tiles require very solid support, large notches in the bed
should be avoided. Blobs are no use with floor tiles, not enough
support.
==Grout types==
Basic grouts aren't waterproof.
Tile adhesive can be used for grouting, but isn't ideal.
==Grouting==
Grout is usually applied with a rubber edge. Push grout well into the
joints, go over them repeatedly to get as much in as possible.
Use the rubbed edge at 45 degrees to the grout lines to get a good
final grout shape.
It is possible to grout small areas with a finger, but this leaves a
rougher surface which isn't ideal.
When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a
wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face.
Wring the sponge out in clean water repeatedly. If done too soon, the
joint grout is affected. If done to late, the tiles don't clean up,
and surface grout film then needs removing with a plastic scourer.
Finally, lithofin & similar treatments make grout wipeable [[clean]].
This makes a big difference to long term appearance.
==Grout reviving==
First clean as well as possible then bleach. A plastic scourer can be
used if scraping is necessary. If grout's in a weak condition it can
pull out.
Grout reviver is just grout. Scrape the grout surface clean, and wipe
on new grout with a finger. when set, clean the tile faces.
==Tile size==
==Tile spacing==
(gap size, how to space evenly)
==Substrate==
(choice & preparation)
==Layout styles==
(square, mosaic, gaudi, diagonal etc)
==Layout==
(where to put the part size tiles, centring, software etc)
==Order of work==
==Tile cutting==
link to existing wiki article
==Quantity estimating==
==Cost cutting==
(cement as adhesive, gaudi style, cleaning used tiles, faux stone,
etc). See
==Corners==
There are 3 main ways to do external corners (eg the front of a
[[window]] ledge)
===Plastic strip===
Rounded [[plastic]] strip is popular and easy. Prone to becoming
harder to keep clean than glazed tile after many years. Too often the
plastic strip won't match the tile in colour.
===Rounded edge tiles===
Tiles with rounded over edges are available in some tile ranges. These
work very well, but cost more than the usual tiles.
===Some title===
A more basic way to finish external corners is simply to use the tiles
and nothing else, like so:
______________
|______________
| |
| |
| |
| |
If the tile biscuit colour matches the glaze, the edge biscuit can be
left visible. If it doesn't, grount can be applied to make it match
the grout lines.
If the tiles aren't too bulky, the resulting joint looks much like
another grout line. People's reactions to such joints vary, some
people like them fine, some don't.
==Pros and cons of tiles==
==Showers==
A waterproof membrane is best practice under the tiling to prevent
[[water]] penetration to [[wood]]work, but few of us use them.
[[Adhesive]] and grout must be water resistant.
Lithofin etc helps keep the grout clean
Rough surfaced tiles are harder to clean
==Seals==
Grout is best in corners not prone to movement, ie where masonry meets
masonry, and no cracking has happened over time. Corners prone to any
movement should use a flexible sealant.
* Ms polymer lasts well but discolours a bit
* [[Silicone]] goes black with mould after a while. Use [[mould]]
resistant to delay this, but its still fairly inevitable
Plastic strip is usually used over sinks & baths. It sits behind
tiles, with the flexible edge protruding and pressing against the bath
or sink.
==Tile buying==
Wall tiles aren't suitable for floor use. They're too thin and
slippery.
Tile colours can vary slightly between batches. If you can't get them
all with the same batch number, slight variation can usually be hidden
by any of:
* mixing the batches up randomly
* changing batch at a corner
Occasionally batches are too different to mix at all. Hold tiles from
different batches side by side before buying to check they match near
enough.
when transported, tiles sat vertically are a lot less likely to break
than if placed horizontally.
==Windows==
Sometimes its possible to suround a window with whole tiles all round.
Aligning a ring of tiles round a window is harder than doing a
straight line, and typically requires adjusting the tile positions
slightly
The cill position can sometimes be moved up or down slightly to match.
The new cill tiles can be supoprted on broken tiles cemented in and
positioned edge up, spaced around 1/4" apart.
A slight slope to a tile cill reduces water retention and mould.
==Repair==
To remove a tile, first scrape out the grout all around it. Then what
happens to it won't detach neighbouring tiles.
==UFH==
==Colour==
Colour is a matter of taste of course, but there are some choices
better avoided. The author has seen a house with smallish windows made
rather gloomy by laying dark floor tiles. Black tiles show up
limescale badly.
==See also==
[[Category:Tiling]]
Tim Watts
Jun 28, 2012, 2:49:59 AM6/28/12
to
NT wrote:
> On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred <f...@no-email.here.invalid> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
>> relative do some tiling.
>>
>> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
>> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
>> copied and pasted into a new section?
>
>
> Its a start...
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Tiling_FAQ#Rounded_edge_tiles
>
>
> NT
>
>
>
> ==Adhesive types==
> ===Powder or tub===
> Premixed tubs are convenient and more expensive, and don't store as
> well. Once opened they tend to set over a few days.
Tub adhesive is not as resistant to water as cementious powder mix.
> On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred <f...@no-email.here.invalid> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
>> relative do some tiling.
>>
>> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
>> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
>> copied and pasted into a new section?
>
>
> Its a start...
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Tiling_FAQ#Rounded_edge_tiles
>
>
> NT
>
>
>
> ==Adhesive types==
> ===Powder or tub===
> Premixed tubs are convenient and more expensive, and don't store as
> well. Once opened they tend to set over a few days.
A proper tiler's sponge is best.
> Wring the sponge out in clean water repeatedly. If done too soon, the
> joint grout is affected. If done to late, the tiles don't clean up,
> and surface grout film then needs removing with a plastic scourer.
>
> Finally, lithofin & similar treatments make grout wipeable [[clean]].
> This makes a big difference to long term appearance.
>
...
> and surface grout film then needs removing with a plastic scourer.
>
> Finally, lithofin & similar treatments make grout wipeable [[clean]].
> This makes a big difference to long term appearance.
>
--
Tim Watts
NT
Jun 28, 2012, 4:47:50 AM6/28/12
to
On Jun 28, 7:49 am, Tim Watts <tw+use...@dionic.net> wrote:
> NT wrote:
> > On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred <f...@no-email.here.invalid> wrote:
> Tub adhesive is not as resistant to water as cementious powder mix.
It depends entirely on the mix. There are really no rules that some
> NT wrote:
> > On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred <f...@no-email.here.invalid> wrote:
> Tub adhesive is not as resistant to water as cementious powder mix.
types are sold wet, some dry.
> > When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a
> > wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face.
>
> ^^^ to
>
> A proper tiler's sponge is best.
> > Wring the sponge out in clean water repeatedly. If done too soon, the
> ^^ Wring
Tim Watts
Jun 28, 2012, 9:07:09 AM6/28/12
to
NT wrote:
> On Jun 28, 7:49 am, Tim Watts <tw+use...@dionic.net> wrote:
>> NT wrote:
>> > On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred <f...@no-email.here.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Tub adhesive is not as resistant to water as cementious powder mix.
>
> It depends entirely on the mix. There are really no rules that some
> types are sold wet, some dry.
>
>
>> > When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a
>> > wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face.
>>
>> ^^^ to
>>
>> A proper tiler's sponge is best.
>
> Do you know what's better about it?
>
Not in any great detail - but my observations are:
> On Jun 28, 7:49 am, Tim Watts <tw+use...@dionic.net> wrote:
>> NT wrote:
>> > On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred <f...@no-email.here.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Tub adhesive is not as resistant to water as cementious powder mix.
>
> It depends entirely on the mix. There are really no rules that some
> types are sold wet, some dry.
>
>
>> > When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a
>> > wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face.
>>
>> ^^^ to
>>
>> A proper tiler's sponge is best.
>
> Do you know what's better about it?
>
a) It does not crumble like some cheap sponges;
b) Fairly fine, uniform and holds a lot of water;
c) Usefully sized and cuboid.
I suspect much has to do with it being a quality sponge rather than a random
bath sponge.
--
Tim Watts
John Rumm
Jun 28, 2012, 10:48:10 AM6/28/12
to
On 28/06/2012 07:49, Tim Watts wrote:
>
>> When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a
>> wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face.
> ^^^ to
>
> A proper tiler's sponge is best.
Also once wiped down a couple of times, I find it much quicker to let
>
>> When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a
>> wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face.
> ^^^ to
>
> A proper tiler's sponge is best.
the film dry, and then give it a dry polish with a cloth to remove the
remaining - otherwise you can play the get rid of that white film
residue game almost indefinitely!
John Rumm
Jun 28, 2012, 10:49:53 AM6/28/12
to
On 28/06/2012 09:47, NT wrote:
> On Jun 28, 7:49 am, Tim Watts <tw+use...@dionic.net> wrote:
>> NT wrote:
>>> On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred <f...@no-email.here.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Tub adhesive is not as resistant to water as cementious powder mix.
>
> It depends entirely on the mix. There are really no rules that some
> types are sold wet, some dry.
>
>
>>> When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a
>>> wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face.
>>
>> ^^^ to
>>
>> A proper tiler's sponge is best.
>
> Do you know what's better about it?
Its firmer (often a latex type block) and so is less likely to rake out
> On Jun 28, 7:49 am, Tim Watts <tw+use...@dionic.net> wrote:
>> NT wrote:
>>> On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred <f...@no-email.here.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Tub adhesive is not as resistant to water as cementious powder mix.
>
> It depends entirely on the mix. There are really no rules that some
> types are sold wet, some dry.
>
>
>>> When the grout is sufficiently set, clean the tiles repeatedly with a
>>> wet sponge tog radually remove the film of grout on the tile face.
>>
>> ^^^ to
>>
>> A proper tiler's sponge is best.
>
> Do you know what's better about it?
more grout than wanted. Its also more abrasion resistant - so does not
get all roughed up and start leaving bits of sponge all over the joints.
NT
Jul 2, 2012, 6:50:05 PM7/2/12
to
On Jun 26, 11:34 am, Fred <f...@no-email.here.invalid> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
> copied and pasted into a new section?
>
>
> As you may know from my other thread, I've been asked to help a
> relative do some tiling.
>
> I see there is not a section in the FAQ/wiki about tiling. Perhaps we
> could have a discussion here about tiling and the best bits could be
> copied and pasted into a new section?
>
add it.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Tiling_FAQ
NT
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