Wood glue

[NT]

What do people recommend as wood glue for general carpentry? I'm
looking for the cheapest that will do a sound job, and what I last
bought is inadequte.


NT

[Bob Minchin]

Toolstation D4 item no 61864 5.98/ltr is very good however avoid their
Bondloc D3 adhesive as it has a very low initial tack and takes ages to
dry sufficiently to take clamps off and progress the job.

The D4 is waterproof but I prefer to use a PU for work that will remain
out in all weathers.
Toolstation PU 93568/52489 (5 minute/30 minute) is £9.96 for 750grams.
even with care it will be useless within a few weeks so unless you have
a big job to do, most PU glues work out very expensive.

Bob

[The Natural Philosopher]

white carpenters glue like evostik

>
> NT


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

[Andrew May]

On 27/04/2012 14:00, Bob Minchin wrote:

> Toolstation PU 93568/52489 (5 minute/30 minute) is £9.96 for 750grams.
> even with care it will be useless within a few weeks so unless you have
> a big job to do, most PU glues work out very expensive.
>

Are you sure of that? I have a bottle of Gorilla Glue - that I have
always assumed to be PU - that I bought last summer and used a couple of
weeks ago with no problems.

[John Rumm]

On 27/04/2012 13:46, NT wrote:

> What do people recommend as wood glue for general carpentry? I'm

A PVA of some sort...

If you are not worried about setting time, then bulk containers of PVA
as sold for cement admix and general PVAing tasks will be adequate. FOr
posher carpentry I usually use one of the yellow alphatic glues with
tackifierers like TiteBond.

If its not going outside, then a non waterproof PVA will be sightly
easier to cleanup which may matter if finishing with polish etc that is
going to leave the wood visible.

> looking for the cheapest that will do a sound job, and what I last
> bought is inadequte.

In what way, and what did you buy?


--
Cheers,

John.

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[Brian Gaff]

So it was more wouldn't glue then? grin

Brian

--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"NT" <meow...@care2.com> wrote in message
news:a30cd888-d8fd-423b...@i2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...

[Bob Minchin]

If it is the brown foaming stuff, then I have found that even the small
amount of water vapour left in the bottle will turn it solid. I've not
used the gorilla brand however so maybe that is different?

Bob

[John Rumm]

PU certainly has a limited shelf life IME, although I have usually found
it better than "a few weeks". It will depend on many things though like
storage conditions, and the amount of ambient moisture that can get into
the bottle once its been opened.

[Tim Watts]

I got a cheap deal on a batch of PU (which I believe Gorilla Glue is)
because it was close to its use by date.

I used some well after the date and it did not seem impaired. I suspect a
lot has to do with storage and the dates are probably based on storage at
the highest expected temperatures (say 25C plus in a southern european
country) so if stored at 20C or less, in the UK, you've probably got longer.

Alos, like medicines, it does not immediately drop dead 1 second after the
date, but becomes less effective as time progresses.
--
Tim Watts

[Tim Watts]

Tim Watts wrote:

> Andrew May wrote:
>
>> On 27/04/2012 14:00, Bob Minchin wrote:
>>
>>> Toolstation PU 93568/52489 (5 minute/30 minute) is £9.96 for 750grams.
>>> even with care it will be useless within a few weeks so unless you have
>>> a big job to do, most PU glues work out very expensive.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure of that? I have a bottle of Gorilla Glue - that I have
>> always assumed to be PU - that I bought last summer and used a couple of
>> weeks ago with no problems.
>
> I got a cheap deal on a batch of PU (which I believe Gorilla Glue is)
> because it was close to its use by date.
>
> I used some well after the date and it did not seem impaired. I suspect a
> lot has to do with storage and the dates are probably based on storage at
> the highest expected temperatures (say 25C plus in a southern european
> country) so if stored at 20C or less, in the UK, you've probably got
> longer.

And assuming it is stored dry rather than in damp/humid conditions...

[NT]

On Apr 27, 4:31 pm, John Rumm <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 27/04/2012 13:46, NT wrote:
>
> > What do people recommend as wood glue for general carpentry? I'm
>
> A PVA of some sort...
>
> If you are not worried about setting time, then bulk containers of PVA
> as sold for cement admix and general PVAing tasks will be adequate. FOr

Thats what I thought. Last time I bought pva I saw a very cheap deal
on a gallon of pva at SF and figured it said 48% pva, so it should be
ok, and bravely tried it. I dont normally touch their No Nonsense
brand, but did and the result is fairly poor.

> posher carpentry I usually use one of the yellow alphatic glues with
> tackifierers like TiteBond.
>
> If its not going outside, then a non waterproof PVA will be sightly
> easier to cleanup which may matter if finishing with polish etc that is
> going to leave the wood visible.
>
> > looking for the cheapest that will do a sound job, and what I last
> > bought is inadequte.
>
> In what way, and what did you buy?

It just doesnt have the strength it should. 1x1 Joints can be broken
apart by hand, its a lot weaker than the wood. I've been using it
without dilution, and clamping smooth flat joints, albeit not very
hard.

That begs the question what brands of general purpose gallon pva have
been found to be fine?


NT

[dennis@home]

"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:jnebso$f4v$1...@news.albasani.net...

> NT wrote:
>> What do people recommend as wood glue for general carpentry? I'm
>> looking for the cheapest that will do a sound job, and what I last
>> bought is inadequte.
>>
> white carpenters glue like evostik

What do non white carpenters glue like?

[harry]

PVA. ("White glue")

[Wesley]

"NT" <meow...@care2.com> wrote in message
news:a30cd888-d8fd-423b...@i2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...

> What do people recommend as wood glue for general carpentry? I'm
> looking for the cheapest that will do a sound job, and what I last
> bought is inadequte.
>

May not be the cheapest but I've always got great results with Cascamite

[John Rumm]

Seems odd... I have not really had a PVA that has not been able to make
a reasonably decent joint if given enough time. What sort of wood? was
it particularly waxy?

> That begs the question what brands of general purpose gallon pva have
> been found to be fine?

I have used the TS D3 stuff - IIRC the bond strength was ok, but it
takes a while to set.

[gri...@gmail.com]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:33:19 -0700 (PDT), NT <meow...@care2.com>
wrote:

>That begs the question what brands of general purpose gallon pva have
>been found to be fine?

I've been using Durabond for the past decade and not had any
complaints.

[Peter Parry]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 18:04:27 +0100, Tim Watts <tw+u...@dionic.net>
wrote:

>I used some well after the date and it did not seem impaired. I suspect a
>lot has to do with storage and the dates are probably based on storage at
>the highest expected temperatures (say 25C plus in a southern european
>country) so if stored at 20C or less, in the UK, you've probably got longer.

I've had some stored in the fridge and it is fine two years after
first opening. However, it is important to store it upside down
(nozzle down). Easiest way is to store the bottle nozzle down in an
old tumbler. That way any hard film which does form is away from the
nozzle.

[Nick Odell]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 05:46:12 -0700 (PDT), NT <meow...@care2.com>
wrote:

>What do people recommend as wood glue for general carpentry? I'm
>looking for the cheapest that will do a sound job, and what I last
>bought is inadequte.
>
>

What are you actually going to use it for? What do you mean by general
carpentry? Inside or outside? Will the joint be under tension?
Compression?

I use ordinary white PVA for general stuff like making jigs and
patterns but that stuff creeps under tension so for joints that matter
I'll use Titebond Original.

I also use hot hide glue. It's self-clamping (ie it pulls itself
together as it sets) can be mixed thick or thin according to use and
can be undone again at a future date if you think that might be
necessary.

I used to use Cascamite as mentioned elsewhere and it's brilliant in
the right circumstances though it's a bit too brittle for most of my
needs and I'd describe it as rather unforgiving if things aren't going
the way that you want them to.

Nick

[NT]

On Apr 28, 1:34 pm, Nick Odell
<gurzhfvp.jbexf...@ntlworld.com.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 05:46:12 -0700 (PDT), NT <meow2...@care2.com>

> wrote:
>
> >What do people recommend as wood glue for general carpentry? I'm
> >looking for the cheapest that will do a sound job, and what I last
> >bought is inadequte.
>
> What are you actually going to use it for? What do you mean by general
> carpentry? Inside or outside? Will the joint be under tension?
> Compression?

indoor use, and a wide range of things. I don't rely on general
purpose glue for safety critical joints.

> I use ordinary white PVA for general stuff like making jigs and
> patterns but that stuff creeps under tension so for joints that matter
> I'll use Titebond Original.

creeps after setting you mean?

> I also use hot hide glue. It's self-clamping (ie it pulls itself
> together as it sets) can be mixed thick or thin according to use and
> can be undone again at a future date if you think that might be
> necessary.
>
> I used to use Cascamite as mentioned elsewhere and it's brilliant in
> the right circumstances though it's a bit too brittle for most of my
> needs and I'd describe it as rather unforgiving if things aren't going
> the way that you want them to.
>
> Nick

cheers,
NT

[bolt...@mailbolt.com]

On Saturday, April 28, 2012 1:34:52 PM UTC+1, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 05:46:12 -0700 (PDT), NT <meow...@care2.com>
> wrote:
>
> >What do people recommend as wood glue for general carpentry?

> I use ordinary white PVA for general stuff like making jigs and
> patterns but that stuff creeps under tension so for joints that matter
> I'll use Titebond Original.

Which is ordinary PVA, albeit a reputable brand of same.

For general carpentry, I would either use PVA (as an inveterate over-speccer I only use a cross-linker) or more often polyurethane.

>
> I also use hot hide glue. It's self-clamping (ie it pulls itself
> together as it sets) can be mixed thick or thin according to use and
> can be undone again at a future date if you think that might be
> necessary.

That's not really a general carpentry glue, more a cabinet-making thing for the restorer/enthusiastic historicist.

> I used to use Cascamite as mentioned elsewhere and it's brilliant in
> the right circumstances though it's a bit too brittle for most of my
> needs and I'd describe it as rather unforgiving if things aren't going
> the way that you want them to.

It's a good structural glue. It does sometimes turn suddenly, especially if not mixed very very precisely (sensitive scales are best), and even then if a bit old.

[robgraham]

>
> That's not really a general carpentry glue, more a cabinet-making thing for the restorer/enthusiastic historicist.
>

Somewhere I read the article that this link refers to.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=28897

Interestingly PU glues came out of this testing very poorly.

Rob

[Tim Lamb]

In message
<d681643d-c0ee-4218...@m13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
robgraham <robkg...@btinternet.com> writes

What happened to the *aircraft* glues developed during WWII?

regards

--
Tim Lamb

[The Natural Philosopher]

Aerolite 306 and cascamite?

Very good BUT they are fiddly and need clamping.

Polyurethane is GOOD ENOUGH as a low strength gap filler, but PVA is
better but not weatherproof.

If you want top class use heated epoxies or polyester resins

> regards

[Tim Lamb]

In message <jnjb77$j1o$2...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> writes

>Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message
>><d681643d-c0ee-4218...@m13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
>>robgraham <robkg...@btinternet.com> writes
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's not really a general carpentry glue, more a cabinet-making
>>>>thing for the restorer/enthusiastic historicist.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Somewhere I read the article that this link refers to.
>>>
>>> http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=28897
>>>
>>> Interestingly PU glues came out of this testing very poorly.
>> What happened to the *aircraft* glues developed during WWII?
>>
>
>Aerolite 306 and cascamite?
>
>Very good BUT they are fiddly and need clamping.
>
>Polyurethane is GOOD ENOUGH as a low strength gap filler, but PVA is
>better but not weatherproof.
>
>If you want top class use heated epoxies or polyester resins

I use PVA (assumed) supplied for exterior woodworking purposes. With an
unheated workshop, low temperatures are an issue and I usually carry
stuff into the house to set off overnight.

I actually need an adhesive that will withstand 95kg when applied to
domestic chairs!

A *from the tube* low temp. adhesive would be nice.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

[The Natural Philosopher]

try a hot glue gun. It is surprisingly good as a basic gap filling
flexible glue.

Otherwise I'd be tempted to use a filled epoxy..say 30 minute epoxy
filled with microballoons and then applied using a hot air gun or a
hairdrier.

with luck you will get enough grain penetration for a good joint.

but really it depend on the type of joint - whether the glue has to
survive tension or just shear - and whether the joint can swell under
moisture change. Like the old trick of slotting the tenon in a mortice
and tenon joint so that shrinkage of the tenon will just open the slot,
not split the glue line.

best to make up test joints and see how they break and develop your own
methods .

[Tim Watts]

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message
>> <d681643d-c0ee-4218...@m13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
>> robgraham <robkg...@btinternet.com> writes
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's not really a general carpentry glue, more a cabinet-making
>>>> thing for the restorer/enthusiastic historicist.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Somewhere I read the article that this link refers to.
>>>
>>> http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=28897
>>>
>>> Interestingly PU glues came out of this testing very poorly.
>>
>> What happened to the *aircraft* glues developed during WWII?
>>
>
> Aerolite 306 and cascamite?
>
> Very good BUT they are fiddly and need clamping.
>
> Polyurethane is GOOD ENOUGH as a low strength gap filler, but PVA is
> better but not weatherproof.
>
> If you want top class use heated epoxies or polyester resins
>
>> regards
>>
>
>

I find PU fine for a large surface area joint where eposy is too expensive
and gap filling is needed.
--
Tim Watts

[Nick Odell]

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:35:30 -0700 (PDT), NT <meow...@care2.com>
wrote:

.
>
>> I use ordinary white PVA for general stuff like making jigs and
>> patterns but that stuff creeps under tension so for joints that matter
>> I'll use Titebond Original.
>
>creeps after setting you mean?

(sorry for the delay in coming back) Yes, I mean that it creeps after
setting. Imagine a classical guitar with the bridge glued on with
ordinary PVA. There's a constant tension from the pull of the strings
and over time you can be almost certain that it will pull itself
apart. Imagine anything else that's going to exist under tension and
consider that it might happen there too. Titebond Original shouldn't
do that; hot hide glue definitely won't do that.

Nick

[NT]

On May 5, 12:15 am, Nick Odell
<gurzhfvp.jbexf...@ntlworld.com.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 07:35:30 -0700 (PDT), NT <meow2...@care2.com>

k, thank you


NT