... another meeting failed * linkthegamer (~linkthega@FUR-D48A73A7.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) зашел на канал ##fur-dev * ChanServ установил режим +a ##fur-dev linkthegamer * ChanServ дал статус оператора канала linkthegamer am i late? if so by 1 hour or 30 minutes? and where is theyain? well yes you are nobody knows he didn't show up in here darn him how late am i never mind * SoulRetriever (~Soul@F1F2C298.810AAADF.DD364119.IP) зашел на канал ##fur-dev http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/ heya :) thanks thanks for the link goes to Admc ? why? you posted it I posted what? http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/ ahh so i am only half an hour late daylight savings makes timezone conversion a bitch yes and our government has just screwed the daylight savings since EST is both gmt-4/-5 so I'm confused too :( you still have DST i though most places tossed it out like the english masurement system and the US was just being lazy hehe, the US is like the worlds musium in some cases now kids in this exibhit called the USA you will see a world where feet and feranhiet and miles per hour are still use we stil use MPH here? o.o nice well i know some places us km/h but soul... go back to using the english system you guys came up with,,, your making us look old X3 well how much of FurMix team is here? me, ValkaTR and Admc Having Xorrito and CrazdFoxx around would be cool too * linkthegamer1 (~linkthega@FUR-D48A73A7.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) зашел на канал ##fur-dev DAMN INTERNET O.O * linkthegamer ушел (Ping timeout) brb * linkthegamer1 ушел (Quit: Leaving.) * linkthegamer (~linkthega@FUR-D48A73A7.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) зашел на канал ##fur-dev * ChanServ установил режим +a ##fur-dev linkthegamer * ChanServ дал статус оператора канала linkthegamer CrazdFoxx is probably unreacheable. Xorrito is available in jabber, I've called him here to join us wooooooo fofty is on but theyain is nowhere was the meeting today? While we are waiting for Theyain, read this: http://www.gnome.org/press/releases/2011-04-gnome-3.0-rescheduled.html * AndroUser (~androirc@D477A825.4BCBEDB.3B3C07C5.IP) зашел на канал ##fur-dev hello hi, its soul im in my kitchen also so we do have a project codename, that is good on and shnatsel my question the other day was just if you think we will us alphabetcal animal names for release titles or maybe something else furry XD ...but we don't have any means of communication that can reach the whole team, that's bad. I suggest a common OpenFur mailing list on Google Groups.] i used to have theyain's cell if theyian is not here soonish i am going to use my powers as assistant project manager and along with fofty (and SOUL) we will make the base and shell decisions unless a huge argument occurs linkthegamer, there were some ideas brought up about codenames on ufurmix mailing list, see http://groups.google.com/group/ufurmix/browse_thread/thread/68b95be82981db1a (scroll down to theme change to "Furmix development plans") OK. Let's talk about the base then? * shnatsel has just realized that base distro and desktop environment/shell can't be discussed separately, they define each other * foxofinfinety (~foxofinfi@FUR-847BA240.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) зашел на канал ##fur-dev wee! finally.. okay now we can more muzzles! and slightly finally in the form of I can finally connect, got 5 errors that the connection was rejected -_- to change it in ubuntu we either use one of the 3 base ISOs or use one, strip it and replace also, next time it would be useful if I actually know what date and time... yeah our leader theyain seems to have forgot to... you have his cell? I live in europe, if he would contact my by call/sms would be rather expensive true okay i sent an SMS to that last number he gave me * AndroUser ушел (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )) back yay According to http://www.dudalibre.com/en/gnulinuxcounter, Ubuntu has 60% of desktop market. Then goes Debian with 20%, and Gentoo and Arch with 3,5%. All of them except Ubuntu are far too geekish. Due to greatest market share Ubuntu has the greatest software selection, which is critical when it comes to newbies. Also Ubuntu is very well-supported due to its market share, and dpkg rocks... not to mention all that work to make it more user-friend ly. yeah ok i was going to say while ubuntu is a newbie linux i use it becuase of all the debs made for it In terms of DE, KDE's UI is far too cluttered and sometimes glitchy. LXDE and Enlightenment have not come to widely-usable state yet. source compiling everything can suck my tail XFCE? XFCE is something strange. We won't benefit of using it because Xubuntu is not really lighter than Ubuntu with GNOME 2, and it's less user-friendly (e.g. remember the menu editor) first I would like to know where you get the cluttered idea for KDE from? and I have never had any form of glits with KDE, while GNOME doesn´t even want to run on my computer cluttered i would say is relative to screensize and plasmas running not really lighter --- true that can be but I have a 22¨ at 1980xsomething, and I run mostly no plasmoids i don't remember xfce menu being that bad (plasma is just the term of the desktop itself, either plasma-desktop or plasma-netbook, the plasmoids are the widgets) KDE4's UI is cluttered. When I saw it after using GNOME for some time, I booted into something with KDE (Kubuntu maybe) and was stunned by the amount of stuff on the screen. I literally didn't know what to look at, there was too much stuff at a time. Well, and Plasma crashes are far too famous to mention here :) the menu, no, the editor... I think it would be the users fault then, KDE defaults to only 1 plasmoid LXDE had the editor from hell so then they added to much thereself, and although plasmoids may crash (I never use any) GNOME isn´t prerfectly stable either, like I said, I can´t even run GNOME2, the old version did work Yes LXDE and e17 are out of question yet. Mostly because we don't have a decent LXDE base. @link and right afther comes XFCE, but indeed, the one in LXDE is worse Lubuntu is quite decent this editor? http://www.xfce.org/images/about/tour/4.8/panel-editor.png Nope, it still can't get out of betas and if you read release notes you realize it's not menu, not panel it doesn´t crash though there was decent Runtu LXDE but its image is so poorly-built that it's almost unremixable. afaik, new XFCE 4.8 uses new menu and gnome menu editor can edit it but i have not tried that yet oh fuck... a txt file based menu editor XFCE software generally loses to gnome's a lot. E.g. Mousepad is a clone of Notepad and can't compete with Gedit what I want to attempt though, it to allow the user the option, so anything we make has to be as universal as it can be, if we can then install ubuntu deb packages it would be possable to install KDE, GNOME2 (+ Unity), XFCE, etc, from the repo´s and allow users to pic one Though XFCE panel might be a good option if we don't like gnome-panel (bloated and glitchy) and don't want Unity or GNOME-Shell else you will always have several users that don´t liike it in XFCE you can install gedit Yes but there always be users that don't like it, you can't please everyone. A different DE can be installed with one line in terminal on any *buntu. i use geany instead of mousepad ^^' @shnatsel: NOT! if you install KDE while GNOME is installed you can only use GNOME, KDE will be there but it will be useless shnatsel: one of the main goals of the project was to make it easy to change the OS without the terminal several conflicts will then occur which make KDE unable to start and indeed, we don´t want the terminal foxofinfinety: Hmm... i got kde4 and gnome2 working peacfully on mine a while back may be fixed now, was a while when I tried i think that some no essincals make it whine OK. With an installation of one package, if you like it better. I had a GNOME+KDE dual-boot for a while, you just need to pick a session in GDM, that's all. like trying to install koffice and stuff anway, in programming there is also a function system() which would allow the install to run a command, if we give the installer an option for which to use (which desktop then) we can simply use the system() function to run the commands internally but the unix system call system() is shell-dependent and slow and exploitable you'd better use some other variation of fork() system call * darktechnician (~darktechn@FUR-B72A1C90.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com) зашел на канал ##fur-dev actually i was thinking you want to install both KDE and GNOME ? :s Nobody will even think of such a setup. no, we don´t want to do so, well something like it anyway, and, we can also run more then one desktop on the liveCD, and use GRUB to pass on some extra agruments to change the desktop from that, allowing the user to what's the point of all that voodoo magic? which is why I´m saying let the installer change it, but without installing a other desktop first, so only install the one the user chacked then the user will never have to use a desktop they don´t like with a live disk and an internet connection and a rewrite of the installer we could add the ability to download and install other DE at runtime theoretically well, it looks like you want the user to choose from several options they're not even aware about BTW, we can't afford customizing several DEs at a time yet. i had lot's of troubles choosing between KDE and GNOME when i first met linux * darktechnician теперь известен как Dark_Technician I would only give such an option in an ¨advanced install¨, if you use a basic install you just get a default i was like: "wtf?" i think this is more for geek users shnatsel Advanced users will grab the right CD in the beginning. true and maintaining two DE's is... hard :s the idea of using a bootloader would be for more basic users, show an image of the desktop type and let them click the one they like best, then also directly set that as a default for installation yesh We've come to a worse problem now - we don't have a list of goals and don't have a target audience defined! which is why I mentioned using ubuntu´s packages to bad a demo of each would be to big but a sample menu might not They don't hell know what is GNOME and what is KDE which is why I said show a picture but come to think of it this is a rather pointless arguement target audience: random furries Why don't you just follow the time-tested solutions? Ubuntu/Kubuntu, Sabayon GNOME/Sabayon KDE, what else was there,.... goal: make linux furrish look and feel :> * shnatsel изменил тему на: Target audience, project goals We basically have 4 directions to choose from: what I´m saying of letting the user change it at start of the live CD is time tested, OpenSUSE has always had that option 1) Theming. Modify the look and feel. 2) DON'T BE EVIL! * xorrito (~yaaic@FUR-7E786D5F.evdo.leapwireless.net) зашел на канал ##fur-dev 2) Software stack for "artwork producers" hi 3) Software stack for "artwork consumers" 4) Usability, ease of use improvements artwork consumers? Va Yes shnatsel: one combin 2 and 3 what do you mean with artwork consumers? whats going on? yes shnatsel: also we don't want to make another art studio distro consumers consumers - those who cannot make artwork Basically, you have furries drawing porn and furries watching porn he means adding photo viewers Nope :D No more viewers :D hehe anyways good photoview with slideshow and opengl effects for perfect fapping we are not just targeting artist and art fans e.g. I can´t draw and I don´t need my computer only for viewing art thank you much we also want writers, musicians, actors, and their fans to be supported to Yes, we had this in 9.10 but dropped for 10.04 There are several reasons for that we are trying not to steorotype a furry as an artist now i can see a problem i would recommend a preloaded swt of basic tools then metapackages geared towards a paticular creator I know there are furry music composers, and all that, but they're a minority of users. There's no point of including an app in the distro if we know that 80% won't use it. It's easier for the composers to install the software from Software Center. no offence but most users are also not artits, most furry artist use windows with software that can not be used with wine or such, so they can also install it from the software center BTW there's not even one decent art studio distro out there. Most artist-oriented features of ufurmix are unique to it. I think it´s either all, or none can be, but not all want a artits-oriented system * linkthegamer ушел (Ping timeout) I´m not an artis, so those packages would be useless for me, basically just a waste of diskspace, and even if they may not be large I need my entire HD But AFAIK most furry fans DO draw or paint. It may be amateurish, it may be not even uploaded anywhere. * linkthegamer (~linkthega@202FFDB8.89F91E6C.F55A1227.IP) зашел на канал ##fur-dev * ChanServ установил режим +a ##fur-dev linkthegamer * ChanServ дал статус оператора канала linkthegamer well... there only two programms i know for drawing, it's GIMP and Inkscape You obviously haven't booted ufurmix 10.04 :) * linkthegamer1 (~linkthega@202FFDB8.89F91E6C.F55A1227.IP) зашел на канал ##fur-dev there are more GIMP is quite usefull, even if you're not an artist Same for Inkscape btw there is a whole list yip, i make electrical schemes in inkscape :> also i just missed a lot of chat i think but to complicated for most, as it has a lot of features GIMP can be quite hard, Inkscape is more usefull for most also log flod (3:34:02 PM) linkthegamer: we are trying not to steorotype a furry as an artist (3:34:11 PM) linkthegamer: now i can see a problem (3:35:11 PM) linkthegamer: i would recommend a preloaded swt of basic tools then metapackages geared towards a paticular creator (3:36:21 PM) linkthegamer: basically the os would come with openoffice, gimp, some video make, lmms if possible, and so on http://www.openclipart.org/detail/97105 - my stop! Electrotehnic symbols v0.1 :> * linkthegamer ушел (Ping timeout) * linkthegamer1 ушел (Quit: Leaving.) * linkthegamer (~linkthega@202FFDB8.89F91E6C.F55A1227.IP) зашел на канал ##fur-dev * ChanServ установил режим +a ##fur-dev linkthegamer * ChanServ дал статус оператора канала linkthegamer So, as far as I can see, opinions differ about the software stack for "art producers" like I said, all or none, if you do provide something for artist but not for, say, musicians that may get some rather unwanted comments Up to this point ufurmix has only integrated achievements from other projects like Gimp Paint Studio, GIMP Painter etc. i think just "creators" would be a better name Musicians are minority anyway. We can't please everybody by definition. we know can be, but then I still do not want a art producers package, if musicians have to install everything one by one then so can the rest Yes we used to include something like that in 9.10 - music, video, etc, but dropped at 10.04 There's Ubuntu Studio for musicians, but it doesn't work for artists. well we are not ubuntu meta-fing-packages darn it studio64 shnatsel ufurmix has many "art-producer"-oriented things that are unique to it and it will be a pity to drop them we are not saying drop them but it doesn't seem reasonable to make a separate image for them as well we can keep them, but only as an option, like I said, I do not want any art-production related stuff on my computer it does weare vsaying also work on stuff to help other producers indeed OK. Does any of you write music on a more or less professional level? all or none, it just wouldn´t be fair to others, even if musicians may only be a small part, they are not the only group we would need to take care of yes or used to the point is, the amount of users is inrelevant i get what fofty is saying * linkthegamer ушел (Quit: Leaving.) OK. I don't, so I don't know the requirements of a distro build for music production. * linkthegamer (~linkthega@202FFDB8.89F91E6C.F55A1227.IP) зашел на канал ##fur-dev * ChanServ установил режим +a ##fur-dev linkthegamer * ChanServ дал статус оператора канала linkthegamer he doesn't want 30 art programs on his hd he has to remove every update indeedd damn this internet There won't be 30 There will be 3 even 1 is to much we i can't say we should have 0 You're not the target audience, you can use ubuntu as base and install only the furry packages you need :) with several command in terminal or some clicks in GUI which is to much work, I shouldn´t have to do that i have one main problem with this If you want to make A system YOUR system, you'll have to tweak settings anyway. OK. Let's see some surveys then. i just think we should be more geared towards freedom other idea, shnatsel do you use such packages yourself? yes I do have ufurmix ppa enabled and have most packages installed from there, but not all. I also have some PPAs with the software I need. And I've just set up a whole Bodhi Linux for parents. i don;t like it seeming like we are all "you will like gnome and you will make/collect art" * Dark_Technician (~darktechn@FUR-B72A1C90.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com) покинул ##fur-dev (Ex-Chat) this TA bs sounds like M$ the point here is, shnatsel, if you use them, then you shouldn´t decide if we do or don´t use it, since you would be pre-judged on the idea as adding them would benefit yourself If you want to make an OS that suits everybody you'll end up either with Bodhi Linux or with Ubuntu with all existing packages installed also forget musicians cause they are a minority... has a fur and a linux user i don't like the idea of forgeting the 1 percent not saying to go all ultimate linux is about freedom of choice, then why do I HAVE to have art-related packages? make no sense if users want them they can install them, but you should not force them onto everyone i think we should have the base be a kind of showcase of some of our best software You should start from vanilla ubuntu then and build the system you want every distro have image editor - it is normal Yes Bodhi Linux thried that but A image editor, not several As you can see, it's largely a fail. It's OK for advanced users with good patience, but not for newbies. GIMP or Inkscape should be there, they are basic package, but I do use ¨or¨ with a reason when installing ubuntu, i would like to see list of applications and their descriptions, so i can decide what to install, what not shnatsel and foxofinfinety: think this could be solved with metapacakge choice during install or a group of some basic packages That's you, an advanced user. YES there will be default selections shnatsel: he means like a list like art tools, music tools no, that is me, a NON-artist, I do not want more gimp selected - recommended Guys. Imagine you used Windoze all your life and now see Linux for the first time in your life. You can't choose if you want GIMP or Inkscape because you never saw them. GROUPS DAMN IT GIMP - An Image/Photo Editor programm name and description :> and also some packages can be marked as ¨recommended¨ so users that are not sure will install them, as they get more used to linux they may decided not to OK... It's quite clear that we are arguing about our own needs here. Let's see some surveys and see if we can suit the majority. if you know you don't draw you can unselect additonal art tools hey can someone give me a quick sumary? (starting my next class so i will be slow) no progress it's all arguements Ubuntu seems to be accepted as a base yesh and i think genome thus far will be defualt shell not clear yet i know my point is linux is about freedom, this also means the freedom to chose which program you want, and not get what someone else wants, if that is what is ging to happen I will not stand behind the project and in that case I am taking back anything I happen to own, which includes openfur.org ouch powerplay anyway i think the way we can settle this is as follows So you want us to strip away anything but the most critical stuff? I mean it, if you make a user install specific software without even giveng them a choice you go entirly again all that linux is about i think he wants the option too okay now i have an idea! and let random furry user select the dhpcp client, the kernel logger, dcron/anacron/..., :> no the base system is called a base because it is what you need, noting more Yeah No cd, no rm, no locate so tools like a dhcp-client, and core-utils are all part of the base, but any form of artistic page is not basic software THAT IS TAKING IT TO FAR DAMN IT I GET WHAT FOFT MEANS You, as an advanced user, clearly won't be installing your system from the LiveCD of the project. You'll cherrypick the things you need from the repo. Default software selection is for newbies, not for you. NOW I WANT SOMEONE TO TELL ME IF THIS IDEA WOULD WORK!!! how about something easy to use? like the first ufurmix release. everything neede came in it. to play music to play videos. just keep it easy SELECTION yes, but you are not letting them select it if you make a package directly part of the page Again, let's see some polls at least *base * linkthegamer ушел (Connection reset by peer) * linkthegamer (~linkthega@202FFDB8.89F91E6C.F55A1227.IP) зашел на канал ##fur-dev * ChanServ установил режим +a ##fur-dev linkthegamer * ChanServ дал статус оператора канала linkthegamer you clam that in order to install it a user must be an advaced user, do you really think that a newbiew can remove something they don´t need to be? you need to know more about a system to know what you can remove then to know what you can add When you see something other than Windows for the first time in your life, you won't care about the choice. You'll want it to just work and not get in the way. now i would suggest a basic showcase setup for the live CD foxo sit down and listen. I am, but I don´t like what I hear when you two are done i have a SOLUTION i would like to get feedback on k well let me hear your point of view with out anyone else link, I'm all ears kk link okay i agree the liveCD should be a showcase of the best of the best, make a great first impression and all that true in the options have a choice to go with default DE (tacked) or chose from a list if you know you want different * xorrito ушел (Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org) * xorrito (ac@EE47CB5D.8874E6B2.9DEF580C.IP) зашел на канал ##fur-dev later a screen for pacakges, leading to an advanced and a simple selection screen andvanced is ValkaTR's name and description set up http://www.klisoura.com/ot_furrysurvey.php i like that, but don't you guys think it will be easier and smart to just make an easy (for the user) thing and LATER make advance stuff simple is just a list like Artist pack, Writer Pack, programmer Pack, Science pack, that the person can choose from as well as a deufault install exactually what is on the livecd no more no less option like in a normal setup: custom or recommended options yes and that is a problem why? what I would prefer, is the first question in the installer asking how you want to install, either using a quick install, or a cusom install, quick being the software as it on the LiveCD. custom letting the user select what they want Yes. Ubuntu with its quick and SIMPLE installation does wonders. For a person who sees the system for the first time in their life, every choice is increasing difficulty. That's why Ubuntu has those "packs" only in text-based installer. nod *nods* keep in mind that this system will be introduced to a bonch of new furs that have never even heard of linux but i would like to include that packs option somewhere if a first time did know what they wanted yesh * Slodki_Wilczek ушел (Client exited) basically i think a pick quick or custom or advanced installer might work but that is why I say let the user chose what he or she feels he/she is, new or advanced, a.k.a. let them chose how to isntall, simple, using defaults when possable, or targeted, with only what they want how about we make a base, one that is just for day to day usage. and then we put up a poll with what the user whants quick being copy the live CD, custom being quick with choices, advances being the whole shebang Well Ubuntu has it in the text installer. Since we use a DVD image anyway, we can make a combined image (live + text installer + upgrade from usual Ubuntu) if you look at the poll shnatsel pointed to: A visual artist: 928 (46.75%) in other words, around 53% is NOT an artist and use the "packs" only in the text installer for advanced users i second shnatsel thought Look at the last line on the page no, both graphic, that an advanced user can use the command line doesn´t mean they should yesh also i think that custom and advanced shouldn't be that same It's not command-line, it's wizard. hold on back it up, foxo, what exactly are you looking for in the installation? the option to get what I want, and not waste space on stuff I´ll never use the custom ok so here is an idea Ubuntu Studio already has that. LiveCD installs everything, text-based install installs only the stuff you need. if i may go on wait don't post yet BRB but what I mean with that option, is that when you start the install, you get the option for a ¨Quick install¨ which will be recommended and get a description to be for those that are happy with the system as it is from CD, or those new to linux have an istallation that instals the base after that the wisard ask what kind of extras do you whant? and gives the following (for example) writer's pack, drawer's pack, filmer 's pack etc * linkthegamer1 (~linkthega@FUR-D48A73A7.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) зашел на канал ##fur-dev darn oh well go on thats it i think that is what foxo is trying to say repost please * Admc ушел (Ping timeout) * AdmcPL (~adam@FUR-BAF7B6EA.adsl.inetia.pl) зашел на канал ##fur-dev * AdmcPL теперь известен как Admc have an istallation that instals the base after that the wisard ask what kind of extras do you whant? and gives the following (for example) writer's pack, drawer's pack, filmer's pack etc somwhat, but then I need to first go through the installed and then run a extra wizzard, I would prefer to do it at once thats what i meant it will be the same wizard Guys. Why don't you stick with time-tested solutions? Ubuntu Studio already has that. LiveCD installs everything, text-based install installs only the stuff you need. because if we are the same as all others nobody will use it what do you mean shnatsel? becuase we want to innovate dang it TEXT BASED AND GRAPHIC HANDLE DIFFERNETLY besices that the text-based installer just plain sucks * linkthegamer ушел (Ping timeout) you have to fing know that tab selects buttons Usually such innovations are much worse than using common stuff. There's no need to fix things that are not broken. only higher level users know that can you guys take in consideration my idea? and move on? * linkthegamer1 ушел (Quit: Leaving.) * linkthegamer (~linkthega@FUR-D48A73A7.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) зашел на канал ##fur-dev * ChanServ установил режим +a ##fur-dev linkthegamer * ChanServ дал статус оператора канала linkthegamer back wb but i hate saying oh you are advanced he use a text based editor Why not? It gives much more options and works faster oh btw my loco team is using a server called bluebutton for conferences, we may use that for future meets ? ahh I used it several times, it's quite nice yesh txt is faster but a optional graphical one would be too i never used it :P i just know its good lets you customize the resulting system along the way it is nice... sucks it is only on that alt ISO Debian uses it for all its existence you guys know the window that comes up when ubuntu installs? BUT We can make a combined iso! Ubuntu has one, and we use a DVD already! wait, I´ll give an example window of what I mean (window NT style as I don´t have the option to use linux atm) Such thing will add system recovery, upgrading from ubuntu and customized installs to the LiveCD we already have look, this is what I mean: http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/1994/knipselp.png text will be differant in the actual installer, but I had to quickly make it now and it would look better as well, this is just for the idea thats what i was saying oops, i have problems in wefurries I'd stick with time-proven things. Implementing this will require a heavy rewrite of Ubiquity, which is not a good idea. We don't have the resources to implement and debug it. if we are just making the same we can quit right now, making the same as others doesn´t make users use it well we could at least try, i can also ask some of my loco team to help, i will be attending an install fest tomorrow, i can ask them then Well, I already named 4 points ufurmix was different. Being different for the sake if being different is NIH syndrome, and Linus Torvalds says it's a disease. which doesn´t mean that not changing anything is better, 4 differnace, well that gives me instrest in entirely reinstalling my computer... wasnt the original point of ufurmix was just to make a linux for furries? It's better not to change things that aren't broken. it doesn´t matter was ufurmix was, we merdged, creatures was not the exact same and if we make something together it will be a combination of both Let's return to the 4 points of ufumix improvement: theming, software (or maybe not) for art producers, software (or maybe not) for art consumers, usability/ease of use did creatures ever made a release? (just curios) not public, but there been an internal alpha yeah well what good does that make? Oh can you show it to us please? in theory yes, but it was with a VM so the file is a bit large, so I would need to see where to put it the 4th point (ease of use) is almost absent from 10.04, since Canonical has fixed almost everything I was aware of. still would be a target for us, just in case something happens at a later point we want changed There are some file sharing services for large files it´s 369MB, but I wouldn´t know where to put it atm Yes, like my Unity experiment Dropbox, Ubuntu One, Wuala? I am quite sure we al agree on points 1 and 4 and I have dropbox but it take a while to upload OK let it be dropbox but it's not reliable for large files give me md5 too IMO we shouldn't concentrate on stuff for advanced users since there are distros much more suitable for geeks. They can easily reuse our components in their system. true, but that doesn´t mean we should expect all users are idiots either Since everything has been modular and quite portable till now you earlier said something regarding what linus said, ever heard what he said about gnome? Well GNOME was criticized for doing so, but they have the most easy to use and intuitive DE ever we defenetly need a video conference Yes but he has changed his mind since then ;) audio prefered, else I´d need to buy a webcam and I wouldn´t expect that shnatsel same here... And BTW GNOME has only gained popularity all that time despite all that criticism well i tried to make a compromise, lets just make an easy to use system for now Let's try to do what we can do in the first place. Upstream Ubuntu will be out in less than a month... and once again i second shntasel In two months we probably can make something decent, but please no major changes sowy But we need our priorities set first. at least make what we make universal, so that we can always later on decide to add a other desktop option or a more extened installation option We can work on: 1) Theming 2) Stuff like GIMP Paint Studio and GIMP-Painter (can we?) 3) Stuff like Cricetida and search.furrychan.ru criwhat? Yes using Ubuntu as base already provides us with those features never mind, found Cricetida Cricetida - a batch art gallery downloader written by ValkaTR I just found the page googlegroups page of it yes uh this reminds me, i was looking at omgubuntu we can make a "place" in natty for websites :P hm? I though about it, it's not likely to work to be useful I mean link to an article? like you type in "fox" in the furaffinity place and natty retturns entryies with the key fox in it * Admc ушел (Ping timeout) Everything is in the mailing list including links lemme dig it up... http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/making-your-own-unity-place/ also, I tried searching ubuntu, try this: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/bash/ their April fools joke, I find it quite funny * Admc (~adam@FUR-BAF7B6EA.adsl.inetia.pl) зашел на канал ##fur-dev nice libastralon LOR is fun too libastral with that places, if it´s there, leave it be, else, don´t add it, I also don´t think it works we'll integrate search.furrychan.ru with browser startpage it should work better we already have quite a decent browser startpage with a lot of work to do, see screenshots :) http://daemon.rusfur.net/up/ubuntu_furry_remix_screenshots/ timeout... damn. good website, second timeout... 3rd... it´s not working very good Looks like it's the wefurries screwup ValkaTR told about Those screenshots are hosted outside our server actually they're fan-made... yip, we have crisis with servers and nobody took time to organize them into a pretty page daemon.rusfur.net - is a multimedia computer >.< Back to the topic... We can work on: 1) Theming 2) Stuff like GIMP Paint Studio and GIMP-Painter (can we?) 3) Stuff like Cricetida and search.furrychan.ru I agree with 1 and 3 Maybe we should make a poll or something like that? hey guys im going to be on the move a lot in a couple of minutes so i will have to go soon AND i say theming for now then number 3 we're not the target audience after all but with 2 I´d say for now, lets begin with just GIMP with 2 we already have unique achievements and almost nowhere to advance looks like we've come full circle with the discussion of #2 but I think we should use a poll, see if users really want them, but one thing, it less then 50% votes for yes, it is still a no We have exactly 50% from the poll I gave you link to look at the bottom line of the page *puts paws out* gimy linky doing visual things was 47% not 50 http://www.klisoura.com/ot_furrysurvey.php 47 or 53 it doesn't really matter ¨A visual artist:928 (46.75%)¨ 47 is less then half, meaning that most are not Look at the very bottom line of the whole page * Admc ушел (Ping timeout) Draw furry artwork216 11.07% 214 10.96% 185 9.48% 127 6.51% 230 11.78% 53 2.72% 175 8.97% 752 38.52% yes still not 50% 60% do it several times a year or more often can be but that quesiton is statisticly incorrect, then you can get whichever result you want * linkthegamer eeps as he see he has been given to xorrito "meep" just go with it for now foxo, we can put our own polls once we have something out there and besides that that poll is not recent, I am not intrested in what someone wanted then, but what they want of us now Yes. And if we deploy our own survey, we'll have the target audience incorrections and too low number of respondents. * xorrito giggles omg you would alway look at a precentage based on what you have, if you have 10 users 5 users are 50%, percentages are relative im confused!!! * linkthegamer looks at xorrito "hello" XP * xorrito pokes linkthegamer * linkthegamer squeaks :3 .... SOOOO!!! whats up? OK. Let's make a survey about #1 vs #3. OK? Maybe #2 but we still won't have reliable data I'm afraid my point is that is a servay is not done responsable and according to statistic rules you can get the results you want it to get, so that survery is woth nothing i bote one and three **vote or was that not what you where looking for? i vote one first then three OK. What we have at the moment: not much is up... i kinda checked out of the chat awhile back We use some *buntu as a base yes correct yes We still make theming mods and "art consumer" stack * xorrito nods theming yes, art no We are not quite sure about "art producer" stack theming and "general user" stacks yes how about theming and we worry bout rest latter (we don't have much time) yeah We do not want to hold any surveys at the moment to define further direction of the project. i would say theme and genreal applications or more important atm i second linky! same here, that would be our true base, we need that first Some people think theming is not important and functionality matters it does We are not going to drop Cricetida either but without theming it´s just a nother gnome-based distro yesh so theming is needed nobody said anything about droping also why would we drop cricetida i want my paw buttons back :P I only said some thing should not be default, I didn´t say we should entirly drop them I have not seen Cricetida but I may actually find it useful, but I have nothing more then a textual description from groogle groupt cricetida would be a good added funtionality program *groups oh one question no wait, found a screenshot link? OK. What about the "art consumer" stack VS theming? Shall we focus on search.furrychan.ru and cricetida and probably gallery updates aggregator or THEMING THEMING THEMING? does cricetida have mature search? http://groups.google.com/group/ufurmix/attach/700169a5f03bbb73/Cricetida-0.1.png?part=4&view=1 It doesn't have search, but it can download mature and private content also theming theming cricetida according to the screenshot it has a login option, so it would be based on your account settings yes so if you are >18 FA for example would enable a mature content filter and you only get the clean stuff well there is an saying that goes along "sex sells" so we will deffenetly get good eyes by the fandom for it nod nod oh right.... sorry i have used it before i just did not remembered I do ofthen save artwork from FA so I would indeed find it useful search.furrychan.ru tends to avoid mature content because it obviously can't compete with e621 what is the UI for it made in though? * SoulRetriever (~Soul@F1F2C298.810AAADF.DD364119.IP) покинул ##fur-dev oh wow there is a gui for it now? ? (for cricetida i mean) the screenshot I linked has a GUI ooooh a UI got e621 might be a good idea i remember using it but it was all comand line based Cricetida's curent GUI is a placeholder Currently there's no thumbnail preview and selection But it's planned this is more what we wanted to focus on, themes and innovative programs ValkaTR, wanna take part in Cricetida discussion? what I mean is, it may be useful to rewrite it in wXWidgets (http://www.wxwidgets.org/) that is more universal and should theme correctly in GtK+, Qt and KDEUI, so we can then theoreticly just modify that to get our themes to work with more desktops, as our own apps would be made using it yesh... or i'm not eat cha NOOO please no more wxwidgets ohdear. wxwidgets :> wxyzgets? wxwidgets is deprecated long ago wxWidgets 2.8.12 Released 2011-03-28 seems to be in active development * linkthegamer hugs and ValkaTR and drags him onto xorrito paws with him active development - yes; good platform - no. works great with RocRail pause!!! you guys went of course again, can we just theme and cricetida? no that's not enough :) for now? wxwidgets compiles longer than gtk in gentoo even ufurmix 10.04 has more theme and general/new apps so gtk is better :p .........? * xorrito hugs Linky "hi" hi GtK is also entirely non-universal, I prefer KDE so if we would make everything in GtK that means any program I would run that we made would look like shit you relize with me and ValkaTR in your paws you have the power of the dual ops GTK is already well-integrated into KDE. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/kde-oxygen-gets-gtk-theme/ but that is for later, we first have to get a basic OS, it also gives us a clearer idea of how to go on, we are now talking about something we have nothing for, if we have a base it´s easier to decide where to go next they say yes, but it doens´t work good ...i wana play "black ops" now hehe, but i am green! the theming goed ok, until a glitch happens, and those are common I see "green" ops! now there is a title Hope it will be fixed over time, everything seems to be fixed over time it will, just isn´t for now both channel ops are squeakers! BTW we have a community KDE port in the works based off ufurmix 10.04 but for now, lets get to what we are sure we will do, and talk about the rest later on, afther we have some form of base, for me right now it´s not getting late, but it´s starting to get earlier aah 01:30 in here :P 530 pm its also very likely that once we get started we indeed get community ports just like ubuntu has, kubuntu is officialy recognized but was comunuty made initially 2:30 i win pm I have it AM! I don´t care about time I care about what we are going to do, and I can finally get to bed, I had the early shift today so I´m getting tired but mine is the "hotest" in the world!!! hehe ok well so theme and that small softwere for now, then we talk about the next move later> ? i think a rethemeing of ubnutu running gnome w/ general and showcased apps Till 11.04 - yes. + dual-DVD experiment there! do we all agree now? yes, so Cricetida and a basic desktop, I do think GIMP should be part of that, but just the GIMP as it comes from gimp.org #2 is still not clear (inclusion), no active development expected indeed, as long as we are not sure we will work on other stuff for now i second foxo third OK. Who undertakes the dual-dvd? (I'll provide the manuals) but, what we do need to decide, which base, we are using Ubuntu but which version, do we want to use the current development version, which has newer packages but will require more buxfixes to be installed, or do we want to use the stable and with a manual I can try my hand at that stable Xorrito, could you look into the window buttons? My latest revision is available at http://groups.google.com/group/ufurmix/msg/5b0d4fc2e7063b74 LTS 10.10 most likely WHAT?! hmmm how bout the stable desktop, and did you guys decided if we going to use the new shell? 11.04 obviously... we already have 10.04 remix. 10.04 is the LTS ahh oh also i though 11.04 was when you wanted to try dual dvd (which made no since) ok but I do want to make use of the ¨default¨ 10.04, so not the existing remix, as I said, we are no longer working on ufumix but a new system, using the remix version may cause trouble later on, so I want to use a ¨clean¨ base aw i missed the buttons soooo much *wags* so 11.10 will be the dual experiment? so is my task the paw buttons? one sec, what dual experement are we talking about? I get the idea something else is meant then what I understood @xorrito: yep dualdvd dual experiment is live install + system recovery + upgrading from non-furry Ubuntu + text install as a consequence ok I'll give the manuals so are we doing 11.04 or 10.04 is what i though then also if we wait till release y the only adjative thy have is yiffy 10.04, is an LTS = long term support, gives us more time to work on our stuff 11.04 I guess... let's start from it and then see if we can backport anything yiffy yak i think we already have 10.04 as a joke we should make a mature theme :P lol Yakkity  Yammering  Yelping  Yiffy  Yippity  Youthful  Yummy  YodelingYaffle  Yak  Yellowjacket  Yeti Yodeling Yaffle  sorry ValkaTR, we need your expertise in summing it up! :) those are the y release idea as a joke yiffy debs xorrito what? that would be cute *tilts head* wha? just the thing we are going to do right now PLEASE Ubunt ulready has yiff in universe repository. We don't need to add anything. soft-nom-theme.deb, dirty-paws.deb, hyper-cock.deb omg as a joke it's omg anyway yesh rofl add a fetishes repo XD lol ether way, i have to go now, but i will work on the paws as i get time (im close to grad so i have small time) it will install wallpapers ... xorrito: thanks, good luck with the grad and bye! later xorrito ok, and I need the manuals for the dual-dvd, so I can try that bye bye *waves* sorry but nude-vixen.deb conflicts with your-moral.deb bye lol * xorrito ушел (Quit: CGI:IRC) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization + https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization and you get a combo-DVD Well, in theory. with fries and a shake? With blackjack and hookers. also i liked the idea of con booths creatures once had that idea too... with are more horny dev members giving away a free BJ with every disc that last as a joke Making Ufurmix image is as simple as adding repos and packages in UCK uck? Ubuntu Customization Kit we need to remake it Furry Ubuntu Customization Kit A chroot'ed terminal and Synaptic with a small wizard. Much more reliable than doing everything manually. or... or which name we will use, as we so far only defined our teamname is OpenFur, but the name of the OS we had not defined yet I guess it's unimportant at this stage We don't have a common OpenFur mailing list and that's critical at this stage yeah,,, i came up with a suggestion of ingeniOS yesh I can setup a mailing list using PHPList We'd better use Google Groups I think... it's easier to reach for newbies. And we'll need lots of artists who ARE newbies. PHPList is just type your email and a password and thats it but if they indeed have trouble sending a email we can always have someone else do it And in Google Groups you don't need a password and it has great archive browser we can also use something else but i would prefer to have something of our own I prefer not to depend on google or such well we all will depend on your participation then as for OS name till we have a ligit release we should us the suggested codename: furrylinux and maintaining your own service can be costly but we need to look at it later, it´s really geing late now could we do both? kay I have to go Both? idk... bye fox see you be *bye * foxofinfinety (~foxofinfi@FUR-847BA240.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) покинул ##fur-dev it might be possible might... one would serve as more of a backup might be possible, and might be glitchy. But I don't mind the idea. in case something happens to either well yes that's the only reason yeah OK it's almost 2:00 AM here so I'll hibernate too bye