cintanotes (@Jeremy)

[Mat]

Possibly old hat for some, but if you don't know about cintanotes it's worth checking out. @Jeremy - maybe something can serve as inspiration for TW5?

I have found myself using this parallel with TW because it is so darn easy to add notes to it plus it really has a practical next-to-no-nonsense interface. The adding of copied notes is not unlike the old tiddlysnip but even more direct. BTW, tiddlysnip or equivalent is a feature I really miss in TW. Ironically, it is a bit of a hassle to perform the very main feature of TW, ie. to add a note to it... :-/

Another feature cintanotes has is it lets you categorize tags and list them in these categories. Can be seen in screen cast at above link. [1]

<:-)


[1] Tobias has the wonderful and powerful TagSearch plugin for categorizing tas. It's power comes with complexity tho.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mat

Thanks, I hadn't seen Cintanotes.

I'd like to integrate web snipping into TiddlyFox. To make a note, you'd select text or image(s) in a webpage, and then use a keyboard shortcut (or clicking a browser toolbar button) to trigger TiddlyFox. TiddlyFox would display a dialogue to enable you to edit the tiddler, and a way to choose which of the loaded TW documents to insert the tiddler.

The tags implementation in TW5 is currently the same as classic TW: each tiddler carries a list of tiddler titles interpreted as tags. Looking at the screen shots of Cintanotes it appears to (a) allow each tag to have a parent tag and (b) when getting the list of tiddlers with a given tag, it also includes any tiddlers tagged with child tags of the specified tag. The first part allows the tags to be displayed in a hierarchy, and is quite easy to set up. The second part is more of a change to the existing logic. It would certainly be possible for a TW5 plugin to implement that behaviour.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Jeremy Ruston
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[whatever]

Hey!
@Jeremy: Are you by any chance trying to integrate TiddlySnip (1) into
TiddlyFox? That would be cool.

(1) https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlysnip

w

On 9 apr., 09:47, Jeremy Ruston <jeremy.rus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Mat
>
> Thanks, I hadn't seen Cintanotes.
>
> I'd like to integrate web snipping into TiddlyFox. To make a note, you'd
> select text or image(s) in a webpage, and then use a keyboard shortcut (or
> clicking a browser toolbar button) to trigger TiddlyFox. TiddlyFox would
> display a dialogue to enable you to edit the tiddler, and a way to choose
> which of the loaded TW documents to insert the tiddler.
>
> The tags implementation in TW5 is currently the same as classic TW: each
> tiddler carries a list of tiddler titles interpreted as tags. Looking at
> the screen shots of Cintanotes it appears to (a) allow each tag to have a
> parent tag and (b) when getting the list of tiddlers with a given tag, it
> also includes any tiddlers tagged with child tags of the specified tag. The
> first part allows the tags to be displayed in a hierarchy, and is quite
> easy to set up. The second part is more of a change to the existing logic.
> It would certainly be possible for a TW5 plugin to implement that behaviour.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Mat <matiasg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Possibly old hat for some, but if you don't know about cintanotes

> > <http://cintanotes.com/>it's worth checking out. @Jeremy - maybe

> > something can serve as inspiration for TW5?
>
> > I have found myself using this parallel with TW because it is so darn easy
> > to add notes to it plus it really has a practical next-to-no-nonsense
> > interface. The adding of copied notes is not unlike the old tiddlysnip but
> > even more direct. BTW, tiddlysnip or equivalent is a feature I really miss
> > in TW. Ironically, it is a bit of a hassle to perform the very main feature
> > of TW, ie. to add a note to it... :-/
>
> > Another feature cintanotes has is it lets you categorize tags and list
> > them in these categories. Can be seen in screen cast at above link. [1]
>
> > <:-)
>
> > [1] Tobias has the wonderful and powerful TagSearch

> > <http://tobibeer.tiddlyspace.com/#TagSearch>plugin for categorizing tas.

> > It's power comes with complexity tho.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "TiddlyWiki" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> > email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
> > To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
> > Visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.

> > For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
> --
> Jeremy Ruston
> mailto:jeremy.rus...@gmail.com

[Måns]

@Jeremy: Are you by any chance trying to integrate TiddlySnip (1) into
TiddlyFox? That would be cool.

(1) https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlysnip

+1 :-D

[Mat]

On Tuesday, April 9, 2013 9:47:14 AM UTC+2, Jeremy Ruston wrote:

...To make a note, you'd select text or image(s) in a webpage, and then use a keyboard shortcut 

May I humbly suggest a default setting (as in cintanotes) or at least an option so that "select+keyboardshortcut" can immediately zap over the snip to a predefined/default TW, ie. without any dialogue? This is what makes cintanotes so great. No fuss. And perhaps an automatic tag (or title?) like "snip", a source link somewhere and a date.
 

The tags implementation in TW5 is currently the same as classic TW: each tiddler carries a list of tiddler titles interpreted as tags. Looking at the screen shots of Cintanotes it appears to (a) allow each tag to have a parent tag and (b) when getting the list of tiddlers with a given tag, it also includes any tiddlers tagged with child tags of the specified tag. The first part allows the tags to be displayed in a hierarchy, and is quite easy to set up. The second part is more of a change to the existing logic. It would certainly be possible for a TW5 plugin to implement that behaviour.

Yes, the parent tag idea is very good. Currently, in classic TW, the tags list is not very practical - it gets too long and it's a jumble between content type tags and system/plugin tags. (Actually that very distinction, content vs system, might be useful also?..not sure how to systematically tell them apart tho..).

<:-)

[Jeremy Ruston]

Yes, the plan is to integrate TiddlySnip-like functionality into TiddlyFox. I'd like to get TW5 into beta first, though.

May I humbly suggest a default setting (as in cintanotes) or at least an option so that "select+keyboardshortcut" can immediately zap over the snip to a predefined/default TW, ie. without any dialogue? This is what makes cintanotes so great. No fuss. And perhaps an automatic tag (or title?) like "snip", a source link somewhere and a date.

I agree that the ability to snip without seeing a dialogue box is handy.

 

The tags implementation in TW5 is currently the same as classic TW: each tiddler carries a list of tiddler titles interpreted as tags. Looking at the screen shots of Cintanotes it appears to (a) allow each tag to have a parent tag and (b) when getting the list of tiddlers with a given tag, it also includes any tiddlers tagged with child tags of the specified tag. The first part allows the tags to be displayed in a hierarchy, and is quite easy to set up. The second part is more of a change to the existing logic. It would certainly be possible for a TW5 plugin to implement that behaviour.

Yes, the parent tag idea is very good. Currently, in classic TW, the tags list is not very practical - it gets too long and it's a jumble between content type tags and system/plugin tags. (Actually that very distinction, content vs system, might be useful also?..not sure how to systematically tell them apart tho..).

In TW5, a system tiddler is any tiddler whose title starts with the string "$:/". By default, system tiddlers are excluded from lists and search results. Thus it's easy for a wiki author to keep all the system gubbins hidden away.

(There are still shadow tiddlers, but they are generalised somewhat from classic TW: shadow tiddlers are the constituent tiddlers of plugins - and a plugin is a bundle of tiddlers packed into a single tiddler).

Best wishes

Jeremy

 

<:-)

 

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Jeremy,

If a window of opportunity opens up, I'd gladly (try to) join-in to create a junction of TiddlyFox and TiddlySnip with options to...

1. snip while directly navigating to the target TW with the new tiddler being opened in edit mode (in a new browser tab / window)
• preferably compatible to tiddlyspace / tiddlyweb
2. silently snip using a datestamp and predefined tags, e.g. 'inbox'
   
3. snip using a dialogue in the form of a page overlay

I fear though that 'snipping' may either involve some form of html2tid conversion or wrapping snipped html content using the <html> wiki markup which may, after all, not be a bad design choice, especially not in terms of agile development. Anyhow, a kind of live-preview, may be beneficial (and thus likely require a TW for it to work).

Beware: My current knowledge of Firefox/Chrome plugins equals zilch but I imagine that being a matter of a 1h-10h tutorial (assuming some guidance lurking about).

Cheers, Tobias.

NB: If any creator of TiddlySnip is reading this thread: Have you considered (yet) merging (the current) TiddlyFox (code)?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tobias

Thank you for the offer of help, much appreciated.

I've found that the toughest parts of developing a Firefox extension are wading through obsolete documentation and getting set up for debugging. There's a lot of mechanisms in Firefox that are important to extension development (eg XUL and XPCOM) but don't feature in conventional web development, so there's a lot to learn, too. I've been avoiding getting to grips with dialogue box support, but TiddlyFox really needs a proper confirmation bar (rather than an alert) and a preferences dialogue.

The approach I was thinking of for implementing snipping functionality in TiddlyFox is to take advantage of the fact that TiddlyFox can "see" all loaded TiddlyWiki documents, in any tab. Thus it would be possible for TiddlyFox to inject a tiddler into a chosen TiddlyWiki instance (triggering autosave if enabled). It could also automatically load the chosen TW file into a tab if needed. My understanding was that TiddlySnip worked differently, by modifying the chosen TW file directly.

Personally I'd favour storing the plain text selection in the tiddler, along with a link, and not attempt to handle HTML.

Best wishes

Jeremy

[Michele Annicchiarico sciimo]