Big TiddlyWikis and the "split" question
46 views
Skip to first unread message
Yakov
Nov 21, 2010, 2:09:22 PM11/21/10
to TiddlyWiki
So, TW allows to create sophisticated hypertext which can be used to
describe different things. But when semantic links become stronger,
some areas can get so close that it seems natural to unite them in one
TW-document. However, a question arises about operability of big TWs.
1.1 What experience do you guys have with big TW-documents?
1.2 How slow do they tend to be with size?
1.3 Do you split them into parts and how do you do that?
Then, some technical questions:
2.1 Are there any core possibilities/plugins that allow transclusions
from other documents? Can this be fast enough (faster than use of one
big TW)?
2.2 Are there any ways to make external acceleration?
2.2.1 Among ServerSide implementations?
The other issue about big TiddlyWikis is that it is bad for use as a
web-page by itself. I tested it with my friend (perhaps he used
torrents at that moment) and it took about 15 seconds for him to load
the page (I tried it paired with Opera Unite). I think that time TW
was about 1Mb.
3. Do any ServerSide implementations accelerate this thing by sending
just pieces of information to the user, not the whole TiddlyWiki (if
this is possible)?
3.1 Perhaps TiddlyWeb has such mechanism?
Any other comments?
describe different things. But when semantic links become stronger,
some areas can get so close that it seems natural to unite them in one
TW-document. However, a question arises about operability of big TWs.
1.1 What experience do you guys have with big TW-documents?
1.2 How slow do they tend to be with size?
1.3 Do you split them into parts and how do you do that?
Then, some technical questions:
2.1 Are there any core possibilities/plugins that allow transclusions
from other documents? Can this be fast enough (faster than use of one
big TW)?
2.2 Are there any ways to make external acceleration?
2.2.1 Among ServerSide implementations?
The other issue about big TiddlyWikis is that it is bad for use as a
web-page by itself. I tested it with my friend (perhaps he used
torrents at that moment) and it took about 15 seconds for him to load
the page (I tried it paired with Opera Unite). I think that time TW
was about 1Mb.
3. Do any ServerSide implementations accelerate this thing by sending
just pieces of information to the user, not the whole TiddlyWiki (if
this is possible)?
3.1 Perhaps TiddlyWeb has such mechanism?
Any other comments?
Yakov
Nov 23, 2010, 10:44:11 AM11/23/10
to TiddlyWiki
Also, there probably should be
2.1.1 Can outer storage of tiddlers (like in text files) quicken the
work of TW? At least without considering search mechanisms.
2.1.1 Can outer storage of tiddlers (like in text files) quicken the
work of TW? At least without considering search mechanisms.
Michael.Tarnowski
Nov 26, 2010, 12:55:53 PM11/26/10
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Yalkov,
the "split" questions is a *very* interesting one. Since 1995 my own
TW evolved as a glossary system to a 19MB large file with 5112 items,
(16298194 bytes total), including 155 plugins enabled (from 208
plugins total), 58 scripts and 3673 glossary items.
Load time is reasonable when loaded localy (from stick or disc), but
awful when loaded from a hosted site.
There a several techniques to split a huge TW, e.g. IncludePlugin [1]
and Masterincludes [2]. They are recommendable when the tiddlers are
tagged with disjunct categories, e.g. a tiddler belongs either to
"truck" or to "station wagon", but not to "truck, station wagon". Then
you can export all trucks and station wagons to TWs by it's own.
The main drawback is when you have non-disjunct tiddlers ("truck,
station wagon"). Since all distinct TWs are included in one large TW
at load/include time you can not edit a tiddler or create a new
tiddler in the large TW, but in the small one where it is - or should
be - stored.
Therefore you have to decide cleary and setup a precise policy which
tag triggers this. Furthermore when you split a hugely evolved TW you
probably have tiddlers tagged as "truck, station wagon" and tiddlers
tagges as "station wagon, truck" -- confusion will be inevitable.
A possible solution could be:
* The target TW name is stored in a field in each tiddler when
exported.
* Use this field value to disperse each tiddler to it's original
(small) TW when a hugely included TW is saved .
Splitting a TW -- a really fascinating question....
Cheers Michael
[1] http://tiddlywiki.abego-software.de/#IncludePlugin
[2] http://masterincludes.tiddlyspace.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
the "split" questions is a *very* interesting one. Since 1995 my own
TW evolved as a glossary system to a 19MB large file with 5112 items,
(16298194 bytes total), including 155 plugins enabled (from 208
plugins total), 58 scripts and 3673 glossary items.
Load time is reasonable when loaded localy (from stick or disc), but
awful when loaded from a hosted site.
There a several techniques to split a huge TW, e.g. IncludePlugin [1]
and Masterincludes [2]. They are recommendable when the tiddlers are
tagged with disjunct categories, e.g. a tiddler belongs either to
"truck" or to "station wagon", but not to "truck, station wagon". Then
you can export all trucks and station wagons to TWs by it's own.
The main drawback is when you have non-disjunct tiddlers ("truck,
station wagon"). Since all distinct TWs are included in one large TW
at load/include time you can not edit a tiddler or create a new
tiddler in the large TW, but in the small one where it is - or should
be - stored.
Therefore you have to decide cleary and setup a precise policy which
tag triggers this. Furthermore when you split a hugely evolved TW you
probably have tiddlers tagged as "truck, station wagon" and tiddlers
tagges as "station wagon, truck" -- confusion will be inevitable.
A possible solution could be:
* The target TW name is stored in a field in each tiddler when
exported.
* Use this field value to disperse each tiddler to it's original
(small) TW when a hugely included TW is saved .
Splitting a TW -- a really fascinating question....
Cheers Michael
[1] http://tiddlywiki.abego-software.de/#IncludePlugin
[2] http://masterincludes.tiddlyspace.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
Michael.Tarnowski
Nov 28, 2010, 2:10:19 AM11/28/10
to TiddlyWiki
Hi,
please have a look at the similiar post
http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/37c24859e1422f53
Maybe one of the admins will fusion both postings.
Cheers
Michael
please have a look at the similiar post
http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/37c24859e1422f53
Maybe one of the admins will fusion both postings.
Cheers
Michael
Yakov
Nov 28, 2010, 5:18:04 AM11/28/10
to TiddlyWiki
Thanks, Michael. This will be very improtant in the future.. You say
"reasonable load time" and what about the speed of work? Of opening
tiddlers etc?
Does anyone know things about ServerSide implementations?
> please have a look at the similiar posthttp://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/37c248...
"reasonable load time" and what about the speed of work? Of opening
tiddlers etc?
Does anyone know things about ServerSide implementations?
> please have a look at the similiar posthttp://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/37c248...
whatever
Nov 28, 2010, 7:28:08 AM11/28/10
to TiddlyWiki
Hi!
For questions about server-side implementations, have a look at the
following two groups:
http://groups.google.com/group/cctiddly
http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlyweb
And also http://www.tiddlywiki.org/wiki/CcTiddly
w
For questions about server-side implementations, have a look at the
following two groups:
http://groups.google.com/group/cctiddly
http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlyweb
And also http://www.tiddlywiki.org/wiki/CcTiddly
w
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages