How might we teach and learn social media?

[Leigh Blackall]

I'm leading the next Creative Research Discussion Group session at the University of Canberra at 12 noon, on 23 March, in the Teaching Commons of UC. The aim of the session is to discuss how teachers and assessors at UC might consider social media topics, how we think people go about learning it, how or if at all we might teach it, and how or if at all we would offer assessment and certification towards it.

Hopefully this discussion with inform the developments of the Social Media page on Wikiversity, perhaps as a shared space for those attempting to teach it and learn about it.

--
Posted By Leigh Blackall to Leigh Blackall at 3/15/2011 01:51:00 PM

--
--
Leigh Blackall
+61(0)404561009
skype - leigh_blackall
leighb...@gmail.com
http://leighblackall.blogspot.com

http://lifesouth.blogspot.com

[Alexander Hayes]

Hi Leigh,

Very tempted to say 'just use it '  or " we are already using it" however, I am  well aware that the integrity of the subject is perhaps coined in a deeper subset of ensuing questions such as;

• How can we influence social media providers to consider educational context ?
• What open source platforms can educational organisations affordably take hold of, manage and engage learners as social media hosting and/or interaction spaces ?
• What are the risks inherent for using paid spaces over that of the supposed free-ranging supposition ?

An invite to discuss such matters ( lunchtime tute ?) would give me an excuse to fill the tank and drive down the dusty track to lakeside Burley Griffin.

Related topics may include hardening up - http://codex.wordpress.org/Hardening_WordPress

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Alexander Hayes
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[rgrozdanic]

Hi Leigh - I don't mean to be a stirrer, but I'm also bothered by the word "teach" in this context, esp coming from you. As for assessment and certification, this rattles me a bit too as I watch every verb in the dictionary become something that gets pinned down and defined to within an inch of its life so that it can be "assessed" by people who may or may not have the capacity to make the judgement (tho they might have the "qualifications").

 

How does one teach or assess something that's emergent? Did what we taught/assessed even 4 years ago do the job? Is it still relevant?

 

Not challenging you here, just reflecting on my aversion where I normally don't have a problem (most of the time, at least) with the notion of competency standards or teaching or assessment esp in clearly defined areas of skill or knowledge.

 

r

[Nancy White]

One phrase that has stirred useful conversations about the use of social media is "tech + social has fundamentally changed what it means to be together." Unpack that in the context of teaching and learning? Think about the practices before you dive into the policies? Before you dive into the tech practices? 

[Nancy White]

Hm, also have you looked at other offerings for inspiration? Here is one from a cool group http://jewpoint0.org/2011/03/applications-now-open-darim-online-social-media-boot-camp-for-educators/

[Chris Harvey]

guys, I can introduce you to hundreds of social media experts, just a quick glance at my twitter followers would show you that.

Just kidding

Regards
Chris Harvey
http://chrisharvey.id.au

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Nancy White <nancy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hm, also have you looked at other offerings for inspiration? Here is one from a cool group http://jewpoint0.org/2011/03/applications-now-open-darim-online-social-media-boot-camp-for-educators/

--

[Alexander Hayes]

Hi Chris,

I think you raise a good point.....and there is no need to downturn your reply intent.

I also feel that social media is comprised of more than just users...it involves developers, marketers, analysts and networked consortiums with deeper intentions.

The sooner that educators get a grasp on the ethical and moral trajectories ( or lack of ) that underpin the motivations of those mentioned afore then the sooner educators would realise the implications of using such tools as part of their arsenal of number crunching and professional baby-sitting.

Of course, 10% of that time is deep set human connection thats unquantifiable in it's value :)

Social media may have realised revolutions but it's also shifting us into a singularity of borg-kind - http://singularityu.org/

[Derek Chirnside]

Maybe you are the wrong person to do these sessions Leigh.
To a fish, water does not exist.
Just lead a small field trip to the world of Social Media. 

-Derek

[Alexander Hayes]

Well said Derek.

But how will Leigh provide the "dye" for the fish to see what they are swimming in and drinking down deeply ? 

It reminds of what museums are for...here's what your looking at......here is what you are experiencing....here is what we are telling you occurred and is occurring  in absence of the "real" thing.....here are the things to do .......point by point...step by step......

The relational aesthete places the audience within the process of completion of the picture. Social media places educators as simply another user agitating others to think for themselves amongst the blinding obvious interrogations for the unseen algorithms of interaction.

We are the machine.

[rgrozdanic]

fish might drink but apparently dolphins don't.

 

could explain alot.

 

r

[botts...@gmail.com]

chris makes a good point that many people are social media experts but perhaps only when it comes to using that media in its "usual" guise. i think many professional educators are still unaware of the potential for social media to revolutionise the way education is done. a move from teacher centric and even student centric approaches to one where the experience is immersive and pervasive. whatever you do and wherever you go - there is learning.

facebook status updates that refer to web sites / articles / podcasts / vidcasts

tweets in real time that reflect the trending ways of the world

shared resources made by millions of people not just something owned by one.

i'm with the fish - let me drink of the ocean and let iot quench my thirst for knowing.....

botts

[Leigh Blackall]

Nice contributions everyone. Thanks. Rose, the text I used, read again. Plenty of room there to make the challenge you make, and I with you.

Not sure about the fish analogy. Or the native and immigrant if you like. Take TV for example. After 50 years, almost everyone I know has barely a critical concept on it, certainly not the ability to read and decode it. 6 years into social/ist media, we're all blind, and chris has a following of one eyed kings.

[rgrozdanic]

indeed :-)

 

just came across this

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704476604576158643370380186.html?mod=WSJ_Tech_RightMostPopular

[Janet Hawtin]

Pam offers a counterpoint:

http://artichoke.typepad.com/artichoke/2011/03/on-limiting-learning-and-impairing-comprehension-with-mobile-technologies.html

[Barbara Dieu]

Just came across this
The Internet’s Unholy Marriage to Capitalism
http://monthlyreview.org/110301foster-mcchesney.php

which complements well Alex's link to singularity and D. Kernohan's video
http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/nBiLLunr6NkJ/

Reading this
http://www.stanford.edu/group/fredturner/cgi-bin/drupal/?q=node/6
and this
http://www.amazon.com/Master-Switch-Rise-Information-Empires/dp/0307269930/
both of which give an enlightening background on what is happening today.

All this does not give a ten step journey to teach social media
unfortunately - it just illustrates some deep diving I engaged in a
particular area which was triggered by recommendations in lists like
these, tweets, Delicious bookmarks, Friend Feeds, blogs and wandering
on the web.
B.

--
Barbara Dieu
http://barbaradieu.com
http://beespace.net

[Vance Stevens]

Good morning Brazil,

Just arrived in New Orleans for the International TESOL conference and woke up after a decent sleep at an early but not ungodly hour, thankful for rest rather than jetlag.

Read Bee's mail and immediately downloaded the Turner and Wu books onto my Kindle. 

Kindles are dangerous, like slot machines that operate on ten dollar bills.  I reckon you can work up a huge debt pretty quickly on them. After coming from UAE where you CAN'T just download, here in the states, it's amazing to be able to just grab books off the Internet  in just a keypress (before they become free ebooks).

Not that I like the Kindle all that much, but it's what I've got on me.

Love the way the social media works to put us in touch on common thought topics. Thanks for the book recommendations,

Vance

--
Vance Stevens
http://adVancEducation.blogspot.com
http://vancesdiveblogs.blogspot.com

[Chris Harvey]

The funniest thing happened, as I was catching up on reading this,
Judy O'Connell posted a link to an embedded slideshare presentation
called "Social Media for Learning" on her blog.

It might be useful.
http://heyjude.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/social-media-for-learning/

I think people on this list probably have lots of resources like that
and have most likely published their own as well.

There's something strangely recursive about using social media for
learning about social media for learning.

I'm not sure about that fish and dye comments, I do think Leigh is an
excellent person to lead the session he talked about in the original
post.

-Chris

[Barbara Dieu]

>There's something strangely recursive about using social media for
learning about social media for learning.

There is something strangely disturbing in the whole notion of
educators having to learn to bring things together, reflect, socialize
and interact not only with their students but also their peers.

[Barbara Dieu]

An interesting article on the Atlantic.
The Secret to Digital Sanity
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/03/the-secret-to-digital-sanity/72550/

[Leigh Blackall]

Thanks everyone, keep it going. I promise to consolidate and create an annotated bibliography on a wiki before the session.

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[Chris Harvey]

I read that article "The Secret to Digital Sanity". I think we've
covered how to manage information with tags and filter your streams
etc and information overload/noise ratio topics but I didn't like the
religious propaganda and product placement in that article.

Regards
Chris Harvey

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent
the universe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc&feature=autofb

[Alexander Hayes]

Just think.......many universities are replacing libraries with
student laptop power-n-go station points....,literally pulping
hundreds of tons of little read journals or linen bound thesis
manuscripts......compacting "views" for re-commodification.

Likewise BB digs its talons into student-educator rock'n lock learning.

I wonder how long it will be before social media providers start
pulping our tip-tap-type efforts and re-package our cache 'n cookie
cutting secrets in preference for something more insanely ubiqitous ?

Something still keeps me punching numbers into this www machine.....you !

Give me quiet corner, a cola, an Alpine menthol and some lack of
sleep. Social mocial.......its just all soup.

We are but p(r)awns in this perverse pornography called electronic
life. Back to the ipad.

Sent from my iPhone

[LeighBlackall]

Again, many thanks everyone for engaging in this thread. I have
consolidated comments and references into a post on the discussion
page of the Social Media Wikiversity entry:
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Talk:Social_Media#How_might_we_teach_social_media.3F

On the day I will try and stream out the discussion, or at the very
least note the points and references on the discussion page as well.
If the day seems to need me to lead the discussion, I will refer to
these early TALO comments to set the scene. Thanks.

On Mar 17, 2:16 pm, Leigh Blackall <leighblack...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks everyone, keep it going. I promise to consolidate and create
> an annotated bibliography on a wiki before the session.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Barbara Dieu <beeonl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > An interesting article on the Atlantic.
> > The Secret to Digital Sanity
>

> >http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/03/the-secret-to-d...

> > B.
>
> > --
> > Barbara Dieu
> >http://barbaradieu.com
> >http://beespace.net
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "Teach and
> > Learn Online" Google Group.
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> > TALO Links
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>
> --
> --
> Leigh Blackall
> +61(0)404561009
> skype - leigh_blackall

> leighblack...@gmail.comhttp://leighblackall.blogspot.comhttp://lifesouth.blogspot.com

[Leigh Blackall]

Alex.. some day I will trawl back through the net to pull out all these poetic posts you spin, and pay Botts to slam them out in a drunken pub poetry night somewhere on the West coast, probably a mining town, with Stephan recording every slur. But I hope you do it first.

[Alexander Hayes]

I have absolutely no idea what your talking about.

Are you suggesting Sur Wes Patersim is unchultured ?

Grab your kindle and spin some toons. Bluetoof ya mates. Get social.....

Sent from my iPhone

[Janet Hawtin]

Does it help to step back from the tools and ask some social questions first?

- Does this collaborative experience have ways for different people and ideas to 'win' ?
- Is there room and process for constructive conflict resolution?
- Are the processes and results able to be seen and learned from?
- Are there sometimes when more courage and adventure, or stronger negotiation are possible if the moment is not public? What is a useful record then?
- How do the participants follow common threads or points of useful difference?
- Are there external bodies of work which provide a historical perspective or precedent?
- Are there precedents for how to organise this family of information?
- Are there people or groups who could offer an informed audience as peers or mentors for this work?
- Who owns the work; is it licensed so the work can be built on and shared by participants, or others?
- How do you fail?
- How do you pass?
- How do funding, reporting, or organisational governance shape the experience?
- Are there not-negotiable rules for this kind of work?

How do the tools chosen impact the answers to the social questions?
For example:
- Accessibility of tools and work?
- How does the tool enable group ownership or editing of threads of work?
- How would you usefully fork the work?
- Will the formats and hosting for the work mean it is useful (viewable, editable, publically accessible) in the future?
- Power sources, phones, GPS, wearable hardware, editable software, soldering iron, LEDs, knitting needles, band saw, kiln, loom, aerials, microscopes, transport, other sensory tools might be more about experience than about the record of the work, how does it all mesh?

Cheers Janet

[Alexander Hayes]

Mesh.

Now thats a great concept that I havent heard coined for a while !

This thread is a working example of how to answer all of the above.

Love that term....mesh...mash....mess.

Good creative things are messy !

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Leigh Blackall]

Bee, regarding your reference to the book Counterculture to Cyberculture, it reminded me of the documentary, The Net: The Unibomber, LSD and The Internet

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[Brent]

Spin Bott
Alexander Hayes (reconfigured by Countrymike)

Just think
universities replacing libraries

with student laptop
power-n-go
station points

literally pulping

tons of little read journals
or linen bound thesis manuscripts

compacting "views"
for re-commodification.

Likewise BB digs its talons into student-educator rock'n lock learning.

How long will it be

before social media providers
start pulping our tip-tap-type efforts

re-package our cache 'n cookie cutting secrets

in preference for something more insanely ubiquitous ?

Still, something keeps me punching numbers into this www machine

you!

Give me quiet corner,
a cola,
an Alpine menthol
and some lack of sleep.

Social mocial ....... its just all soup.

We are but p(r)awns in this perverse pornography

electronic life.

Back to the ipad.

Sent from my iPhone.

--------------------------------------

[Leigh Blackall]

nice! :)

Countrymike, you ought to do it! We had our drunken chance one shocking 2006 night on Weiheke Island, but some gay Maori fella took the wind out of my sails.

[Alexander Hayes]

Now the Cogh reaches for his lute.....poetics need to be strummed n hummed.

Fitting for St. Patricks battalion.

Awesome restructure Countrymike.

Ps. Is that Waiheke taxi driver close by  to lead the way?

Sent from my iPhone

[Janet Hawtin]

in preference for something more insanely ubiquitous

This feels a bit stretchy
http://hlt.media.mit.edu/
I like the mix of handcrafting and handbuilding circuits

but it still feels fringe and abstract.

Imagine if we had ways to responds to a census with our local biomass
the number of humans, the kinds of organisms within the humans
the kinds of organisms in the location, plants, animals, insects, worms
water quality, soil type, climate, air quality, electricity use, generation, wireless transmission patterns, patterns of bird sound.
a different kind of twitter =)

What if we could do collaborative things with
data that made us more grounded and integrated?
Compare density and diversity of life in our location with peers.
What is unique to our space?
If we change things to increase life does it have an impact on diversity?
Which species are unique or rare here? What do they need?
Ergonomics for other species, for webs of species.

Using technology to tell us more about our own space and its context
more unique detail rather than more copies of less detail.

How can we share discuss and act on that quality of data.
How can we retain that kind of information so that we have a view of changes over time.
I thought the work done by Deborah Gordon on ants was interesting.
http://www.ted.com/talks/deborah_gordon_digs_ants.html
What happens if we crowdsource that kind of awareness.
How do we share our local informal curiosity and also
generate clear useful data.

Then it would be great to be able to be more aware of landscapes
and seascapes which are not populated with humans. =)
a different kind of social, a different kind of fun =)

[minh mcCloy]

Hi Janet (waves to all:)

I've been thoroughly enjoying the the return of the TALO conversation - like seriously gaining pleasure from lurking & learning. 

And now to respond to Janet becoz I've been thinking about a project to crowdsource The Knowledge of our local park. Someone is always trying to alienate a bit of it & loins need to be girded & info gathered & lawyers engaged. So about a fortnight ago I started thinking about crowdsourcing everything we know & thus determining what it is we need to know to nuture a continuance that began as the tribute of a rural community to their lost men of 1914-1918. The park now lies well within the boundaries of Brisbane city and is precious.

Is this what they call tapping into the zeitgeist Janet? serendipity? simple coincidence?

The return to the community from such a project - properly resourced is rhizomatic in its potential. We'd all learn so much. There will be similar projects in any given community & they will overlap & interweave & interleave & meld with contiguous communities and also with any other community becoz land air & water are familiar to us all.

Cross referencing respectfully to indigenous knowledge will result in a bountiful harvest of data.

Ok I'll go lurk again.

Thanx Janet

:)

minh

--

[Janet Hawtin]

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 6:53 PM, minh mcCloy <miz...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Janet (waves to all:)

I've been thoroughly enjoying the the return of the TALO conversation - like seriously gaining pleasure from lurking & learning. 

And now to respond to Janet becoz I've been thinking about a project to crowdsource The Knowledge of our local park. Someone is always trying to alienate a bit of it & loins need to be girded & info gathered & lawyers engaged. So about a fortnight ago I started thinking about crowdsourcing everything we know & thus determining what it is we need to know to nuture a continuance that began as the tribute of a rural community to their lost men of 1914-1918. The park now lies well within the boundaries of Brisbane city and is precious.

Is this what they call tapping into the zeitgeist Janet? serendipity? simple coincidence?

The return to the community from such a project - properly resourced is rhizomatic in its potential. We'd all learn so much. There will be similar projects in any given community & they will overlap & interweave & interleave & meld with contiguous communities and also with any other community becoz land air & water are familiar to us all.

Cross referencing respectfully to indigenous knowledge will result in a bountiful harvest of data.

I have been poking around on http://maps.google.com
If it is possible to make and share your own overlay
I have not figured it out, but it is close. There is one for bicycle tracks.
It has a drop down menu of overlays, the wikipedia one is quite lovely because it is a geomapping of locations by people.
Not sure if the zoom on the map would enable tagging of assets within the park.
Perhaps it is worth sending them or the teams doing the wikipedia locations a question about the best way to map a geographic space in the way that you need?
Kim says that the older api for the googlemapping is less pesky than the most recent one.

http://openstreetmap.org is a map being built by volunteers with gps.
I dont think it has layers for bio data yet but some interesting questions are being asked there.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Pascal%20Cuoq/diary/13333

Good luck minh!

[Janet Hawtin]

http://openstreetmap.org is a map being built by volunteers with gps.
I dont think it has layers for bio data yet but some interesting questions are being asked there.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Pascal%20Cuoq/diary/13333

Environmental projects by osm teams
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Environmental_OSM#Natural_habitats_.2F_landuse

[Derek Chirnside]

I haven't read all the posts tonight, just a gentle skim.
Some wonderful poetry and metaphor, some great summaries.

Part of what I aspire to do is to lighten the load that people are sometimes forced to carry.
Can social media help in this?

-Derek



Derek Chirnside - lits.gen.nz
For the first two-thirds of the twentieth century a powerful tide bore Americans into ever deeper engagement in the life of their communities, but a few decades ago--silently, without warning--that tide reversed and we were overtaken by a treacherous rip current. Without at first noting, we have been pulled apart from one another and from our communities over the last third of the century - Bowling Alone; Putnam, 2000, p.27

--

[Chris Harvey]

Ive been getting into geocaching a little bit, I make a video on how
to do that, http://chrisharvey.id.au/geotagging-ubuntu-and-nikon-nef-with-digikam
I also live in Brisbane, what park are you talking about.

Here's also a test in googlemaps that I did, the photos arent that
great but I was testing the gps unit I bought, it also adds gps info
to video.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=208082375791390018946.00049d575d5266b3c89d5&z=16

You can make your own overlay, I think they call it a track.

Regards
Chris Harvey

[minh mcCloy]

Hi Chris
Yeronga Park on the southside - where aree you
:)
minh

[Leigh Blackall]

I use Maps a bit also.

My phone has an app called Google Tracks, which records my position every few seconds, creating a data file that is loaded to Google Maps with speed, altitude and time. Photos and videos come with GPS positioning data, and are embedded in to the map with markers. 

Here's an example of a ski trip last year

I'm sure much more could be done.

Wikipedia articles with coordinates also show up, as does a range of other social media such as youtube videos.

[craig bottomley]

It's beer o'clock here on the beautiful south coast of western Australia and whilst only at home I did stand before the mirror and perform a lively respeaking of today's poetic efforts. The bed bugs and dust motes were especially appreciative of the more energetic parts of my performance.

Will bring a much practiced version to Adelaide in October ;-)

Boggs

Sent from my iPad

[Chris Harvey]

West End
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_End,_Queensland

[minh mcCloy]

See ya West End & raise ya one Yeronga Park

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeronga_Park

: )
minh

[Chris Harvey]

This is on this Sunday at Yeronga Park http://www.ourbrisbane.com/lifestyle/sustainability/5073412.green-up-yeronga

Brisbane City Council will be showing residents how they can Green Up their homes, live more sustainably and reduce the cost of living at a free Green Up event to be held at Yeronga Memorial Park in Yeronga on Sunday 20 March.

[Barbara Dieu]

A review of Tim Wu's book The Master Switch in yesterday's Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/the-master-switch-tim-wu-internet

[Alexander Hayes]

Sitting here in the central west NSW Australia watching a mate blowing
up a two seater 4XXX Gold plastic lounge whilst the sexist, racist
shlur washes over the fart jokes.

Will send a photo to http://www.flickr.com/photos/mobology shortly.

Yes.......its a full moon too.

Sent from my iPhone

[Michael Coghlan]

At 10:13 PM 18/03/2011, you wrote:
>Sitting here in the central west NSW Australia watching a mate blowing
>up a two seater 4XXX Gold plastic lounge whilst the sexist, racist
>shlur washes over the fart jokes.
>
>Will send a photo to http://www.flickr.com/photos/mobology shortly.
>
>Yes.......its a full moon too.

Not sure if I'd like to be there or not!!

- M.

[Chris Harvey]

lunar perigee tomorrow night :D

[Nancy White]

ya'll scare me. IN a good way.

To Australian TALOians, I hope to see some of you when I'm there early April! If you know any folks in Sydney or Melbourne who want to come to small, conversational focused sessions on "online community" (whatever that really is, and alas, these cost because of my dumping lots of carbon into the air to fly down) please point them to http://innotecture.com.au/nancy-white/ . I'm in Nelson and Wellington NZ the week before. 

Due to my absolute failure as a marketer,  the session will be small, intimate and seriously, if someone wants to end up with a day of peer consulting from a group of bright people, send them to the workshop. Less structure, more learning. And at a price far less than a day of some crazy consultant. ;-)

AND....A fun free one sponsored by Leigh's uni in Canberra on April 8th. YAY FREE!

[Alexander Hayes]

Nancy....I will be there.

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Leigh Blackall]

Here's the info for the Canberra day, with a probable day in the country (Braidwood) the day after.

http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/University_of_Canberra/Institutions_and_communities

[Nancy White]

If any educator types want a seekret discount for SYD or MELB we can make it happen. Email me directly.

[Steven Parker]

Like this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

[Nancy White]

Now that you mention it, a puppet HAS been an important teacher for me. See http://www.fullcirc.com/2011/03/07/social-media-learning-with-puppet-energy/ 

Wow, maybe I've been duped by the government (or Leigh might say, ...yet again!)

Waving from a non-rainy saturday in March so I need to get my butt offline and out into the garden

N

[Steven Parker]

"get my butt offline and out into the garden"

Words of wisdom Nancy.

:-)

[Alexander Hayes]

Gardening?

This bloke needs to stop adding Froot Loops to his  organic herbal hair spray - http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/muammar-gaddafi/

Sent from my iPhone

[Leigh Blackall]

Does anyone find it curious that "our" media (including our own parroting of it) is so easily embedded with the Libyan rebels and not the loyalists? How many loyalists are there? Why isn't our media reporting their story? Who are the rebels, and what do they seriously propose? And why is the UN/West intervening on this one, not Yemen, not other African civil wars, etc. We all know its oil again, but we don't openly talk about it. We just poke fun at Gaddafi and bomb infrastructure with people in it. 

[Alexander Hayes]

Does anyone find it curious that "our" media (including our own parroting of it) is so easily embedded with the Libyan rebels and not the loyalists? 

Yes. I find it curious that our media is reporting on tens of thousands of civilians cowering in their homes as armed males careen around slaughtering, torturing and raping innocent by-standers in what appears to be yet another civil dispute seeking democracy amidst a despoitic dictatorship. After all, thats what journalists do for a living....

How many loyalists are there? 

Including the children used as human shields......ummm.....a lot less I'd suggest.

Why isn't our media reporting their story? 

Probably because they are either in tanks, in compounds or making ill-informed jibberish threats from gold encrusted palace lounge suites.......

Who are the rebels, and what do they seriously propose? 

They are just like you and I one would imagine....common public seeking the right under an accord to elect a government and unelect them by choice not live under force.

And why is the UN/West intervening on this one, not Yemen, not other African civil wars, etc. 

Its high grade crude but the main concern is an open gateway to the EU. Just picture 6 million migrating north...,

We all know its oil again, but we don't openly talk about it. 

Oh yes we do.....what and where are you reading ?

We just poke fun at Gaddafi and bomb infrastructure with people in it. 

Its a very uncommon occurence for western forces to inversely encourage civilian families to camp out in their hangars during times of conflict. We have every right to poke fun if it highlights the absurdity of one mans pathetic egomania fused to such misery and despair.

Luckily our PM wouldnt be accused of the same treachery.

Sent from my iPhone

[Leigh Blackall]

Wow Alex, you must be an eye witness. I'll believe you then. Iraq all over again

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Alexander Hayes <al...@streamfolio.com> wrote:

Does anyone find it curious that "our" media (including our own parroting of it) is so easily embedded with the Libyan rebels and not the loyalists? 

Yes. I find it curious that our media is reporting on tens of thousands of civilians cowering in their homes as armed males careen around slaughtering, torturing and raping innocent by-standers in what appears to be yet another civil dispute seeking democracy amidst a despoitic dictatorship. After all, thats what journalists do for a living....

How many loyalists are there? 

Including the children used as human shields......ummm.....a lot less I'd suggest.

Why isn't our media reporting their story? 

Probably because they are either in tanks, in compounds or making ill-informed jibberish threats from gold encrusted palace lounge suites.......

Who are the rebels, and what do they seriously propose? 

They are just like you and I one would imagine....common public seeking the right under an accord to elect a government and unelect them by choice not live under force.

And why is the UN/West intervening on this one, not Yemen, not other African civil wars, etc. 

Its high grade crude but the main concern is an open gateway to the EU. Just picture 6 million migrating north...,

We all know its oil again, but we don't openly talk about it. 

Oh yes we do.....what and where are you reading ?

We just poke fun at Gaddafi and bomb infrastructure with people in it. 

Its a very uncommon occurence for western forces to inversely encourage civilian families to camp out in their hangars during times of conflict. We have every right to poke fun if it highlights the absurdity of one mans pathetic egomania fused to such misery and despair.

Luckily our PM wouldnt be accused of the same treachery.

Sent from my iPhone

On 21/03/2011, at 7:16 AM, Leigh Blackall <leighb...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone find it curious that "our" media (including our own parroting of it) is so easily embedded with the Libyan rebels and not the loyalists? How many loyalists are there? Why isn't our media reporting their story? Who are the rebels, and what do they seriously propose? And why is the UN/West intervening on this one, not Yemen, not other African civil wars, etc. We all know its oil again, but we don't openly talk about it. We just poke fun at Gaddafi and bomb infrastructure with people in it. 

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[Alexander Hayes]

No Leigh.

Dont believe Reuters....and dont believe me. Believe in a Libya that allows its citizens to believe in whatever they want to believe in.....peace.

Dont forget the US armed the duck to get rid of the last maniac.

Yes.....i wonder what toons the Cruise operators have pumping through their ipods as they let go volley after volley?

Its a tragedy all round.....mistake after mistake.

Sent from my iPhone