Re: A dog's outlook on life
chris.li...@gmail.com
> A dog's outlook on life.
>
> If you cannot eat it then piss on it.
>
> ... If you cannot piss on it then fuck it.
>
> ~ (?)
Um, isn't that your view of Usenet?
Chris
Shane
> A dog's outlook on life.
>
> If you cannot eat it then piss on it.
>
> ... If you cannot piss on it then fuck it.
>
> ~ (?)
So we add dogs to the list of things you are abysmally ignorant about.
Thanks for that.
Will in New Haven
> A dog's outlook on life.
>
> If you cannot eat it then piss on it.
>
> ... If you cannot piss on it then fuck it.
>
> ~ (?)
"If the bear comes by, I will die for you."
In the eyes and heart of every dog I ever had. And why I like them
better than humans.
There was a priest in our neighborhood in Ohio when I was a kid who
liked to talk philosophy and religion with my non-observant Jewish
grandfather.
He said that the love of Dogs for humans was totally undeserved and
the second-most, after the sacrifice of his son, telling proof of
god's love of mankind.
It was, to me, a beautiful, if not very logical, thing to say.
Will in New Haven
--
Walter Bushell
And cats are for, if we get too conceited.
Dogs have masters. Cats have staff.
Will in New Haven
> In article <1189441008.748800.118...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Well aware of that. Bear sometimes wonders if he works for us or for
the cats. I'm always worried that they will tell him that the parrots
are made of chicken.
Will in New Haven
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skyeyes
*Everyone* works for the cats. Trust me on this.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
*Hemidactylus*
newbie dog, still a pup wanted that chicken and bit my hand trying to
get it. I started crying. My dad got ticked a grabbed the offender dog
by the scruff of the next to throw him out the front door. As my dad
loved to tell the story that dog suddenly doubled in weight as the
extremely protective dog I had grown up with as a baby latched unto
the rear end of the offender dog as retribution for harming me.
My dad would often antagonize the older protector dog by acting like
he was hitting me. You would think the protector dog was about to
lunge for his jugular.
*Hemidactylus*
absolutely adored that cat, but the feeling wasn't exactly mutual. If
I wanted to annoy the cat I'd ask the dog "Where's the cat?" The cat
would cast a dirty look at me as if saying "You bastard." The dog
would run over to the cat and start licking him and overwhelming him
with love. This would sometimes wind up with the cat hissing and
walking away, tail flicking.
Will in New Haven
We had a Springer Spaniel when I was born. She never left my side for
two years except to go do the necessaties. She never allowed anyone
but my mother or my grandmother to pick me up, except when my mom
begged Bumpy to let my father pick me up. I used to nap on the front
porch with that dog sitting by me. No one could come in the front
gate. She had never harmed a small animal but she killed a squirrel
that strayed onto that porch.
Then my little brother was born and she took her protective insticnts
to the newbie, although she was still affectionate to me. I guess at
two I was supposed to take care of myself. She would not let me near
Sid's crib. Which was quite correct as I would have put him out on the
curb. He had stolen my worshippers.
Will in New Haven
--
"I have seen the David, seen the Mona Lisa too
And I have heard Doc Watson play Columbus Stockade Blues"
Guy Clark - "Dublin Blues"
Cj
"Will in New Haven" <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in message
news:1189473685.4...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
This is better reading than the pissing contests.
Cj
*Hemidactylus*
getting the 100+ stitches removed and the glass eye matched for color.
That's expensive.
Most attempts at bathing a cat usually terminate after the water has
been turned on. A little hissing, growling and spitting is all the
sane person needs to realize its over. If you proceed further than
this on th first attempt the scars should serve as a reminder next
time that foolish idea ever crosses your mind.
JennyB
> My dad would often antagonize the older protector dog by acting like
> he was hitting me. You would think the protector dog was about to
> lunge for his jugular.
This reminds me of the reason I was told for why dogs bite postmen:
becausethey are always coming to the door and no-one ever lets them
in.
*Hemidactylus*
>
>
There are cats that are as different as night and day. My cat was an
ornery bastard. His idea of showing affection when I petted him to
full purr was, if I wasn't paying attention, turning around and biting
the shit out of me. He used to hide behind chair so h could ambush my
dog, jumping on his back with claws dug in. te poor dog didn't know
what hit him until it was to late and he started yelping.
This cat really loved my mom. When she came home from work he would
greet her at her car. One day a pit bull puppy started towards her,
wanting attention. My cat took offense and chased the pup across the
street back to his yard. Talk about role reversal.
My cat was far from the friendliest cat I ever met. I've met some
really nice cats. Whenever I stayed at my friend Rob's house on the
fouton in the living room, his wife's cat would curl up next to me and
purr all night. It was a real sweetheart.
Another friend of mine's dad had a cat that would attack without
provocation. It had the demeanor of a rabid pit bull. I never saw a
cat that would go out of its way to attempt to inflict harm on a
person like that. It absolutely despised my friend's dogs and never
forgave him for bringing them to his dad's house.
Other cats are the living room blur. They scurry through the living
room making their way quickly so you hopefully don't notice them.
Loiks
> This cat really loved my mom. When she came home from work he would
> greet her at her car. One day a pit bull puppy started towards her,
> wanting attention. My cat took offense and chased the pup across the
> street back to his yard. Talk about role reversal.
In a battle between a cat and a dog, I have never seen the dog win.
Will in New Haven
Dogs that are in the habit of killing and injuring cats never lose*. I
had to retrain a ten-month old Malemute to get him to stop. Then his
owners STILL didn't want him back and wouldn't pay me for my time, so
I kept him, with our cat, for the rest of his life. Well, actually, he
was with Linda and the cat the last four years as she dumped me. He
was a wonderful dog and Ffup used to sleep on him.
When I was a kid, there was a dog, possibly a Pitt mix, down the
street that was a deadly danger to cats and had killed at lest one.
Our cat would get up a tree whenever Spike was around, even though he
often drove off bigger and apparently meaner dogs. One of our
neighbor's Airedales finally got that dog good when it came after HIS
cat. Or just for coming in the yard. Or maybe just for breathing.
After that, the cat-killer stayed up the block where he belonged. That
Airedale, by the way, often "attacked" our cat and never hurt him.
*I would amend that "never" by saying that a small dog that attacked
ordinary cats might find himself outmatched against a big Maine Coon
or similar type.
chris.li...@gmail.com
You haven't seen too many, then. Both of the dogs I had when growing
up- a Schnauzer and an Alsatian- were deadly on cats that came into
our yard. Oddly enough, a neighbor's cat moved in with us and the
Alsatian had no problem with that at all. Strange intruders in the
yard, though- well, more than once it was a short chase, one chomp,
and a shake. Time to dig another hole.
Chris
Will in New Haven
It would not have been impossible to train your dogs out of that and
it would have been the neighborly thing to do. I trained a Malemute,
much more stubborn than a Shepherd or a Schnauzer not to kill or
menace cats and it didn't take all that long.
I have never had an outdoor cat and I would hate to kill a dog but
there are people with outdoor cats who wouldn't hate to kill a dog.
Grief does strange things, although I would tend to blame the dog's
owner. One thing leads to another and you end up with dead people all
over the place. Not that there aren't enough people.
Will in New Haven
--
>
> Chris
*Hemidactylus*
dog. The one I met was pretty laid back.
My dog is pretty small (less than 8 pounds). Neighborhood cats look at
her sometimes like: "Now there's a dog I could kick the crap out of."
I've had to shoo some away. One cat was really friendly though and I
could tell by its demeanor that it intended no harm. It came face to
face with my dog and when my dog got too close it ran a ways to lie
down and roll, a play posture.
My dog, strangely, feels more comfortable around cats than dogs. She
hates my friend's pugs with a passion but likes his cats. They
fascinate her.
Loiks
I see a few responses with examples to the contrary. However, I must
ask a question about these counter-examples:
Were the cats declawed?
Ken Shackleton
Claws are of little use if a large dog has you by the spine and is
shaking the shit out of you.
*Hemidactylus*
like using a 22 caliber pistol against a PCP crazed attacker. Another
issue would be how the cat reacted to the dog. I think attitude could
count for something if the dog isn't overly aggressive or dangerous. A
cat that doesn't back down and stands its ground might stand a better
chance than one that turns and runs and can't find an escape route,
like a tree trunk or small hole in a fence. This isn't absolute
though. A brave cat standing down a pit bull that has been trained for
aggression will die as will most people.
chris.li...@gmail.com
You are certainly correct that we could have trained our dogs to not
attack cats. However, to be honest, we were much more interested in
protecting the resident bird population than the outdoor cat
population. We always had feeders and, before West Nile made its
appearance, bird baths in hot weather. What we considered backyard
birds in the 60s and 70s sadly are "Oh wow!" birds today.
Chris
Loiks
If you had read my post, you would have realized that my question was
not "What use are claws", but rather, "Were the cats declawed". Please
address the question, not what you want the question to be.
Will in New Haven
Never that I know of. My brother's Kerry Blue, named Hell, got badly
scratched up by a cat she injured before we could pull her off. After
we trained her she would still rush up to cats and then she would get
the living CRAP scratched out of her without retaliating. That lasted
about three times and then she just left cats alone. We trained her
not to hurt them, THEY trained her to leave them alone. She would have
had no trouble killing a cat if left to it, I assure you.
In a physical sense, our Lab could too but he likes cats, lives with
several of them and the worse he has done is lick poor Sunrise just
once, and she was soaking and miserable. Then I laughed at her. I
don't think anything non-fatal could have been worse for her. Cats
don't defeat dogs, generally, they just make it not worthwhile to take
it to conclusions.
Will in New Haven
You don't need to train any bull and terrier mix to attack cats. You
need to train them not to. You do need to train them to attack humans.
Anti-human aggression was bred OUT of the actual fighting pit dogs of
old. They were put down if they bit anyone and that included strangers
who broke them up in the fights when they reached a stalemated
position. I don't know where the modern pit bull came from but the
fighting dog of the fifties weighed maybe thirty-five pounds and was
not aggressive against humans. Dogs are remarkably easy to breed for
traits and I guess the disincentive, that no one would fight their dog
against yours if you had a sixty pounder, being gone, people bred for
big. People I know adopted pit bull puppies when a big fighting ring
was broken up in Alabama in the early Sixties and those dogs were
easily trainable, sweet-natured and the biggest one weighed forty
pounds when grown. Because he was fat.
Will in New Haven
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Will in New Haven
It is a good thing for everyone concerned you had sane neighbors. I
understand your perspective and I realize that is one of the risks
people with outdoor cats take. However, I would have voted to acquit
if I had been on the jury when someone took retribution. Pets are
family.
Will in New Haven
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> > Will in New Haven
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> > --
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> > > Chris- Hide quoted text -
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> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
chris.li...@gmail.com
Then you'd be in a terrible ethical position. Do you see the
difference between a person coming on to my property, and perhaps
poisoning my dog, because the dog did something I am under no legal or
ethical constraint to prevent? In addition, this action was something
that, by your admission (and it sounds like you have plenty of
experience) takes extra training to prevent. Finally, if you want to
look at it this way, the cat was trespassing on my property. (If my
dog is outside my property I _do_ have an obligation to prevent things
like that, which is why I always use a choke collar and a leash.)
While I would not kill a trespassing cat, my dog is not as sentient as
I and cannot be held accountable for its actions. Or were you perhaps
saying you would acquit the cat owner for assaulting me? Maybe my
kids?
If you think pets are family, then the pet owner has an obligation to
his "children" to not let them climb fences into strange yards where
there's a big dog. That's like shooting a driver for running over your
kid after you pushed her into the street from between two parked cars.
Chris
Will in New Haven
I agree with you in principle. That's one reason why I have never had
an outdoor cat. It's impossible to control a cat's travels once it
leaves your yard.. I just know how it feels to lose a pet and I would
have a very hard time voting to convict, especially if the person knew
about your attitude toward cats and birds. I guess my vote would be
"temporary insanity," even if that defense had never been claimed. I
always imagined it would be you the owner went after, not your dog.
I would prevent whatever it was the guy tried to do if it were in my
power; I just don't think I could vote to convict.
Will in New Haven
--
"Have faith in the Yankees my son and remember the great Dimaggio."
Ernest Hemingway, THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA
*Hemidactylus*
terrier. One of the bad points about the JRT I read was that they are
terrible around cats and small children. They will harass the hell out
of a cat. They are extremely high maintenance too so I decided no.
>
> You do need to train them to attack humans.
>
responsible for attacks. I would be more comfortable around a large
rottie than a pit. An ex girlfriend had a rottie and he was laid back.
Growled when he first met me, but never again.
>
> Anti-human aggression was bred OUT of the actual fighting pit dogs of
> old. They were put down if they bit anyone and that included strangers
> who broke them up in the fights when they reached a stalemated
> position. I don't know where the modern pit bull came from but the
> fighting dog of the fifties weighed maybe thirty-five pounds and was
> not aggressive against humans.
>
Spuds bull terriers. Another ex girlfriend had a Staffordshire living
with her in her apartment. That dog scared the hell out of me. I got
to the point where I could pet him and he'd lick my face (having his
teeth that close to my throat really scared me), but if I were to
stand or walk he'd growl, bark and pitch a fit. Her property manager
finally forced her to get rid of the dog, because he wasn't on the
approved breed list. Frankly I think those lists are a good idea.
>
> Dogs are remarkably easy to breed for
> traits and I guess the disincentive, that no one would fight their dog
> against yours if you had a sixty pounder, being gone, people bred for
> big. People I know adopted pit bull puppies when a big fighting ring
> was broken up in Alabama in the early Sixties and those dogs were
> easily trainable, sweet-natured and the biggest one weighed forty
> pounds when grown. Because he was fat.
>
of those dogs look like they are on steroids. I don't think good
naturedness is the selling point the ads are trying to stress.
My dog's heritage was also related to the pits, but ratting not
fighting. They would release a bunch of rats into a pit and see which
dog could kill the most. The idea of killing rodents in a pit for
competitive sport sounds pretty inhumane to me, but having a dog bred
to slaughter large numbers of vermin without much effort was a useful
thing at one time. And I can tell by the way she goes nuts over birds
and squirrels that she's not far removed from the rat killers of old
times. She'd like to attack a goose in my neighborhood, a bird over
twice her size. If she ever got loose from me and went after that
goose I don't think she would make that mistake again. I wonder how
expensive my vet bill would be.
I guess the rat terrier (mine is a toy) has affinity to the fox
terrier and manchester terrier, with some chihuahua for size
reduction. I've seen some toy fox terriers and they look exactly like
my dog, so I'm not sure what differences there are...really. She was
the best impulse buy I ever made.
Will in New Haven
Jacks are a very tight genetic group. The "type" that they represent
includes fox terriers and dogs like your rat terrier but Jacks are
descended from a small breeding population. I haven't met anyone who
has a well-trained JRT but I have no doubt it can be done. Or little
doubt.
>
> > You do need to train them to attack humans.
>
> I'm not so sure about that. You hear pits most often being the ones
> responsible for attacks. I would be more comfortable around a large
> rottie than a pit. An ex girlfriend had a rottie and he was laid back.
> Growled when he first met me, but never again.
A few generations ago Dobermans had the same rep. Not only that, there
WERE attacks and documented ones. And Dobermans are much more easily
identified than Pitts. Lots of dogs with no relation to Pit Bulls get
reported as Pitts if they attack someone. Before Dobermans, German
Shepherds had the same rep. And before that, quite long ago, Collies,
by which they meant Rough Collies like Lassie, had it.
Piitt Bulls are rough active dogs with a hard bite. An untrained one
is probably more likely to bite than most other dogs and capable of
doing harm, sometimes great harm. But the same can be said for
Ridgebacks and Chows and Airedales.
> > Anti-human aggression was bred OUT of the actual fighting pit dogs of
> > old. They were put down if they bit anyone and that included strangers
> > who broke them up in the fights when they reached a stalemated
> > position. I don't know where the modern pit bull came from but the
> > fighting dog of the fifties weighed maybe thirty-five pounds and was
> > not aggressive against humans.
>
> I'd assume pits are pretty closely related to Staffordshires and the
> Spuds bull terriers.
Very close to Staffs. Certainly not UNrelated to Spud-type BTs.
Another ex girlfriend had a Staffordshire living
> with her in her apartment. That dog scared the hell out of me. I got
> to the point where I could pet him and he'd lick my face (having his
> teeth that close to my throat really scared me), but if I were to
> stand or walk he'd growl, bark and pitch a fit. Her property manager
> finally forced her to get rid of the dog, because he wasn't on the
> approved breed list. Frankly I think those lists are a good idea.
I think they are a sign of incredible ignorance and brutal unconcern
for people and dogs.
> > Dogs are remarkably easy to breed for
> > traits and I guess the disincentive, that no one would fight their dog
> > against yours if you had a sixty pounder, being gone, people bred for
> > big. People I know adopted pit bull puppies when a big fighting ring
> > was broken up in Alabama in the early Sixties and those dogs were
> > easily trainable, sweet-natured and the biggest one weighed forty
> > pounds when grown. Because he was fat.
>
> I've seen the ads for pits in the back of *Dog World* magazine. Some
> of those dogs look like they are on steroids. I don't think good
> naturedness is the selling point the ads are trying to stress.
There is a market for nasty dogs. There are several rather uncommon
very large breeds that have been selected for a long time for anti-
human aggression. Any of those is much more dangerous than a Pitt.
> My dog's heritage was also related to the pits, but ratting not
> fighting.
They would release a bunch of rats into a pit and see which
> dog could kill the most. The idea of killing rodents in a pit for
> competitive sport sounds pretty inhumane to me, but having a dog bred
> to slaughter large numbers of vermin without much effort was a useful
> thing at one time. And I can tell by the way she goes nuts over birds
> and squirrels that she's not far removed from the rat killers of old
> times. She'd like to attack a goose in my neighborhood, a bird over
> twice her size. If she ever got loose from me and went after that
> goose I don't think she would make that mistake again. I wonder how
> expensive my vet bill would be.
>
> I guess the rat terrier (mine is a toy) has affinity to the fox
> terrier and manchester terrier, with some chihuahua for size
> reduction. I've seen some toy fox terriers and they look exactly like
> my dog, so I'm not sure what differences there are...really. She was
> the best impulse buy I ever made.
I'm sure she's wonderful and that you really care for her. I hope no
hysterical moron ever tells you you have to get rid of her because she
isn't on an approved breeds list. I hope I never experience the
betrayal that your ex-girlfriend's loyal dog must have felt when she
"got rid of him" for not being on such a list. I KNOW I will never
commit such an act of betrayal to keep an apartment. I piss on the
people who make such lists.
Will in New Haven
--
" This would be a better world for children if the
parents had to eat the spinach."
-Groucho Marx, "Animal Crackers"
*Hemidactylus*
<bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> On Sep 12, 8:40 pm, *Hemidactylus* <ecpho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 12, 9:47 am, Will in New Haven
>
> > <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm sure she's wonderful and that you really care for her. I hope no
> hysterical moron ever tells you you have to get rid of her because she
> isn't on an approved breeds list. I hope I never experience the
> betrayal that your ex-girlfriend's loyal dog must have felt when she
> "got rid of him" for not being on such a list. I KNOW I will never
> commit such an act of betrayal to keep an apartment. I piss on the
> people who make such lists.
>
complexes have pretty stringent guidelines about pets. I think many
times its the size of the dog rather than the breed. If you had a chi-
pit mix you could probably get away with it if the dog was under 15
lbs and not too brindled. It's a matter of landlord tenant law really.
Maybe I'm suffering from anti-pit bigotry, but it seems to me they are
the ones that are more breed problematic than owner problematic. OTOH
if a snippy mini poodle or pomeranian bites a kid, it could be
traumatic and require stitches or a tetanus shot at the ER, but won't
involve the funeral home instead. Aggressive breeds are a liability
and not assets in many cases. They are an enormous responsibility and
you at least have to admit that there are quite a few people out there
that are not responsible enough to own a goldfish, not to mention a
pit, bull mastiff, rottie or other dog that could do lots of damage if
unleashed. Maybe there should be more stringent guidelines for certain
breeds like there are for guns. I'm not opposed to someone owning a
gun or having a concealed weapons permit, but if they misuse that
weapon they will pay a serious price. Plus guns don't tend to jump
fences when you're not home or paying attention and start shooting
themselves at people on bicycles or skateboards. But like a gun a pit
bull could be a serious issue if in the same home as a young child
when the parents aren't around.. Both could wind up killing the child
and their friends.
Will in New Haven
Size and general aggressiveness and how the owners interact with the
dog are all more important than the breed the dog either belongs to or
is imagined to belong to. I just can't picture "getting rid of" a dog
because a landlord told me to. For no more reason than an approved
breed list or a size limit that had not been enforced for a long
period. And I have answered the question "Why don't you move in. You
could find a home for Snowball" with "Easier to find a home for YOU"
and never seen the woman in question again and not lost a moment's
sleep over it. AND gone through an eviction when the owner of an
apartment house changed the rules on pet ownership. "Find a home" for
a spoiled eleven-year old dog indeed.
chris.li...@gmail.com
Damn you! Don't you know this is Usenet? The last thing you're
supposed to be is reasonable!
I demand you take back all your moderate statements and replace them
with unthinking partisan responses. If you don't, I will attack all
your posts in every newsgroup with unthinking malice! Because that's
how it's done!
ok, glad that's out of the way :)
Chris
chris.li...@gmail.com
When I was in college, I was driving and a dog jumped in front of my
car from between two cars in the opposite left-turn lane. I was doing
40mph and there was no way I could stop. I stopped traffic for miles
on a big road (US-20) while I pulled the dog to the shoulder. When the
cops showed up I begged them to shoot the poor thing, but they were
town cops, not state troopers, so they would have had to file a ton of
paperwork if they discharged their weapons. Then...then the kid who
owned the dog showed up...and his dad...all his father could say was
something like, "I told you this would happen if you didn't keep him
tied up." What a thing to say to a kid.
I think, aside from the deaths of my parents, that was the worst
moment of my life.
Chris
Will in New Haven
Sheesh. I promise I will do better, um worse, next time. Ok.
Ken Shackleton
The point of my response is that if the dog is determined to kill the
cat, the claws are moot.
Loiks
Once again, you fail to address the question.
Ken Shackleton
What is the use in addressing a question that is pointless.
*Hemidactylus*
with posturing like the raised hair on hunched back and behaviors like
growling, hissing and spitting) but not suffiient against a much
larger animal? Of course comes the backward cascade of arguments about
the adaption of claws and the separation of historical origin and
current utility.
Cats can also use claws to evade an attacker, like when climbing a
tree. Are declawed cats at a major disadvantage here? Stupid question
I know, but just asking if conventional wisdom is correct. I've never
tested this theory myself. Anyways, in a fight otherwise equally
matched, the declawed cat will be at a disadvantage against a clawed
cat.
Cats can also use claws to scratch the living hell out of expensive
furniture. Where dogs enjoy chewing edges of cabinets and books (I had
a pet dwarf rabbit who chewed all the buttons on a remote control so I
had to then guess what channel I was changing to), cats get their
jollies shredding the leather recliners into ribbons. This is a
disadvantage of having claws and programmed behaviors attached to
them. There weren't humans and expensive pieces of upholstered
furniture in cats ancestral adaptive environment, so this problem
wasn't addressed by natural selection. Not sure that a breeder could
pick nonscratchers versus scratchers for future generations of breeds
(artificial selection) or if this lack of behavior would be
pleiotropically coupled to some neurological disorder that proves
fatal after the cat hits maturity and has eaten a certain amino acid
profile in its diet.
The scratching furniture to shreds behavior might be worse in some
individuals more than others, perhaps due to genetic background or
maybe the way they interact with littermates. Perhaps it can be
trained out, but people opt for declawing. I've heard (anecdotally)
this tends to make cats more likely to bite, because they start
feeling helpless without their claws and compensate with their teeth.
I can't remember that my cat had all that big a problem with
scratching furniture. He had claws all his life. He did spray in the
house once in a while and he was neutered. As an aside, I wonder if
female dogs and cats, when spayed, make the best pets. There are some
masculine tendencies that are quite annoying (marking, humping,
fighting, aggressiveness) and could still emerge after neutering,
depending upon how sexualized the brain had become.
Ken Shackleton
Claws may be effective against other cats [or at least tend to level
the field], but the point that I was addresssing was specific to a cat
attempting to defend itself from a determined canine attacker [which
likely outweighs the cat by several times].
>
> Cats can also use claws to evade an attacker, like when climbing a
> tree. Are declawed cats at a major disadvantage here? Stupid question
> I know, but just asking if conventional wisdom is correct. I've never
> tested this theory myself. Anyways, in a fight otherwise equally
> matched, the declawed cat will be at a disadvantage against a clawed
> cat.
I have three cats, one has been declawed. Each cat weighs in at less
than 10 pounds, and I have no doubt that if any of them were to find
themselves up against a determined dog; the cats [clawed or othewise],
once caught, would be dead in very short order.
The claws would be an advantage in escape; one of my cats almost met
her demise [in the teeth of a large dog] but she was able to climb a
wodden power pole and evade them [three dogs in the chase, I saw the
whole thing] without being grabbed.
>
> Cats can also use claws to scratch the living hell out of expensive
> furniture. Where dogs enjoy chewing edges of cabinets and books (I had
> a pet dwarf rabbit who chewed all the buttons on a remote control so I
> had to then guess what channel I was changing to), cats get their
> jollies shredding the leather recliners into ribbons. This is a
> disadvantage of having claws and programmed behaviors attached to
> them. There weren't humans and expensive pieces of upholstered
> furniture in cats ancestral adaptive environment, so this problem
> wasn't addressed by natural selection. Not sure that a breeder could
> pick nonscratchers versus scratchers for future generations of breeds
> (artificial selection) or if this lack of behavior would be
> pleiotropically coupled to some neurological disorder that proves
> fatal after the cat hits maturity and has eaten a certain amino acid
> profile in its diet.
>
> The scratching furniture to shreds behavior might be worse in some
> individuals more than others, perhaps due to genetic background or
> maybe the way they interact with littermates. Perhaps it can be
> trained out, but people opt for declawing. I've heard (anecdotally)
> this tends to make cats more likely to bite, because they start
> feeling helpless without their claws and compensate with their teeth.
Our declawed cat does bite, the others do not.
>
> I can't remember that my cat had all that big a problem with
> scratching furniture. He had claws all his life. He did spray in the
> house once in a while and he was neutered. As an aside, I wonder if
> female dogs and cats, when spayed, make the best pets. There are some
> masculine tendencies that are quite annoying (marking, humping,
> fighting, aggressiveness) and could still emerge after neutering,
> depending upon how sexualized the brain had become.
Our neutered male cat [with claws], has sprayed in the house once or
twice, and he is aggressive. The two female cats are by far the better
pets in my opinion.
Loiks
about cats' furniture destruction habits:
> Perhaps it can be trained out,
Perhaps???????? IT CAN!!!!!!!!
Susan S
<ecph...@hotmail.com>:
[snip]
>>
>Would cats claws be necessary for general self-defense (supplemented
>with posturing like the raised hair on hunched back and behaviors like
>growling, hissing and spitting) but not suffiient against a much
>larger animal? Of course comes the backward cascade of arguments about
>the adaption of claws and the separation of historical origin and
>current utility.
>
>Cats can also use claws to evade an attacker, like when climbing a
>tree. Are declawed cats at a major disadvantage here? Stupid question
>I know, but just asking if conventional wisdom is correct. I've never
>tested this theory myself. Anyways, in a fight otherwise equally
>matched, the declawed cat will be at a disadvantage against a clawed
>cat.
>
Declawed cats (an abomination) should never be allowed outside since
without claws they cannot defend themselves and are at a severe
disadvantage in escaping danger.
Declawing is equivalent to amputation of the first knuckle of your
fingers. Not a Good Thing.
[snip]
Susan Silberstein
Loiks
Congratulations! Out of 5 responders, you are currently the only one
to address the question! For that, you get 5 golden stars!
Loiks
> Loiks wrote:
> > Were the cats declawed?
>
> Cat declawing is a cruel practice. If it is not yet forbidden where you
> live, it needs to be.
ARRRGGGGH!!!! YOU DIDN'T ADDRESS THE FUCKING QUESTION ASKED!
In case you are too blind to figure it out, I agree with you 100%;
cats should never be declawed. My question, however, was not "what is
your position on the declawing of cats".
chris.li...@gmail.com
You must be a hell of a lot of fun on a date.
Chris
John Wilkins
Having had such an operation, I would never inflict it on any living
thing capable of feeling pain, unless the alternative was worse.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Philosophy
University of Queensland - Blog: scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."