Congress gets creationism policy briefing May 10
Mike Darnell
See:
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
(R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
While much of the scientific evidence for design in nature is
only now coming to light publicly, its significance for politics
and public life is profound.
"Public policy is downstream from culture," explained Bruce
Chapman, president of Discovery Institute, the think tank
sponsoring the science briefing. "It expresses people's fundamental
beliefs or worldview. The worldview of the American Founders
included a high sense of human dignity...the belief that the world
is the design of a benevolent Intelligence. As the Declaration of
Independence puts it, we 'are endowed by our Creator with certain
inalienable rights.'"
But the rise of modern science encouraged a materialistic view
of life and undercut the classic understanding of human dignity,
implying that humanity is the product not of design, but of blind
chance and natural laws -- a cosmic accident.
"The materialistic view of human nature has had enormous
negative implications for our public life," added Chapman. "It
influences politics, law, morality, and threatens the American
republic from both sides of the political spectrum."
Yet recent developments in science are turning up startling new
evidence of purpose and intelligent design in the world. Today a
new generation of scientists and scholars, called "design
theorists," is following this evidence, many of them associated
with the Discovery Institute's Center for the Renewal of Science
and Culture (CRSC). "Design theory" promises to reinvigorate the
defense of human dignity and of the democratic political systems
necessary to preserve that dignity.
Design theory will be the topic of a private luncheon, hosted by
Discovery Institute's Center for the Renewal of Science and
Culture, May 10, from noon-1:30 P.M., in the U.S. Capitol Building,
HC7. Immediately following the luncheon, scientists and scholars
will address the evidence for design at a special policy briefing
2-5 p.m. in room 2237 of the Rayburn Office Building. There will be
a closing reception from 5-7 p.m. Media are invited to attend the
briefing and reception.
Speakers at the briefing will address questions such as: What is
the new scientific case for design? How has the Darwinian and
materialistic worldview influenced public policy in education,
family policy, welfare, and criminal justice? How could scientific
evidence for design help resolve the long dispute over the teaching
of origins in public schools, often described as the "battle
between creation and evolution?"
Leading scientists and scholars in the growing "intelligent
design" movement will speak at the briefing, and will be available
for interviews at the private luncheon and the closing reception.
They include: Prof. Phillip Johnson, Jefferson E. Peyser Professor
of Law, University of California at Berkeley, Author of Darwin on
Trial, Reason in the Balance and Defeating Darwinism by Opening
Minds; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. Michael Behe, Professor of
Biological Sciences, Lehigh University, Author of Darwin's Black
Box; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. William Dembski, Associate
Research Professor and Director of the Michael Polanyi Center,
Baylor University, and author of The Design Inference and
Intelligent Design; Discovery Fellow Nancy Pearcey, author of How
Now Shall We Live? (with Chuck Colson) and of The Soul of Science
(with Charles Thaxton); and Dr. Stephen Meyer, Associate Professor
of Philosophy, Whitworth College, Director of Discovery Institute's
Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture and author of the
forthcoming book DNA by Design.
For more information or to schedule interviews contact Rob
Crowther at: 206-292-0401, ext. 107, or at ro...@discovery.org,
or browse Discovery Institute's website at
http://www.discovery.org/.
------
Discovery Institute is a non-profit, non-partisan, public policy
think tank headquartered in Seattle and dealing with national and
international affairs. For more information browse Discovery's
website at http://www.discovery.org.
-0-
/U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/
05/08 09:20
Copyright 2000, U.S. Newswire
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Badash54
Scott
Henry Barwood
Mike Darnell wrote:
If they are successful in getting money from Congress, you can kiss
science good-bye! The proliferation of "Discovery Institutes" will be
mind boggling!
Barwood
..........................................................
chibiabos
<mdar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
>
> See:
> http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
>
> WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
[snip story]
> For more information or to schedule interviews contact Rob
> Crowther at: 206-292-0401, ext. 107, or at ro...@discovery.org,
> or browse Discovery Institute's website at
> http://www.discovery.org/.
>
> ------
> Discovery Institute is a non-profit, non-partisan, public policy
> think tank headquartered in Seattle and dealing with national and
> international affairs. For more information browse Discovery's
> website at http://www.discovery.org.
You'll like this. I read the story, then tried to go to discovery.org
to learn more about the organization, only to discover that the URL is
being blocked by my employer's proxy server.
I work for a K-12 public school district in California. I guess there's
no chance we'll be offering classes in ID any time soon. ;)
-chib
--
wild(at our first)beasts uttered human words
--our second coming made stones sing like birds--
but o the starhushed silence which our third's
-- e.e. cummings
Maarten D. de Jong
: That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
This is just ... sick.
Which brings me to the reason for responding to this message in the
first place: how many US senators have a college degree in 'hard'
science? Surely Behe will take some care not to try and talk to
someone who can blow his ideas clean out of the water, or at least
express and defend extreme doubt.
: Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
: Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
: Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
: (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
For example these guys. All Republican, by the looks of things (I
*wonder* why :) ). I suppose it's just as 'soft' as in the Netherlands,
but the US is the most powerful country in the world, so you expect it
to be ruled by people with brains.
: While much of the scientific evidence for design in nature is
: only now coming to light publicly, its significance for politics
: and public life is profound.
Surely the amicus curiae statement of the Nobel laureates is enough
to cast heaps of doubt on this stupid claim??
Maarten
American Patriot
>
> See:
> http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
>
> WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
> bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
> Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
> scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
> public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
> Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
>
<snip>
The winds, they are a-changin.
Dawgies!
'Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the
glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible
man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things'
Saint Paul - - - http://communities.msn.com/TalkAboutOrigins
Ken Cox
> : Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
> : Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
> : Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
> : (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
>
> *wonder* why :) ).
Actually, the "D-" means Democrat, though the suffix "-TX" may
shift that a bit rightward. Of course from the point of view of
much of Europe, the U.S. doesn't have any left-of-center parties.
--
Ken Cox k...@research.bell-labs.com
ro...@my-deja.com
Henry Barwood <hbar...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Mike Darnell wrote:
>
> If they are successful in getting money from Congress, you can kiss
> science good-bye! The proliferation of "Discovery Institutes" will be
> mind boggling!
>
> Barwood
And what are the Universities doing?
How many biologist are talking to their congresspeople?
How many university presidents are on the phone with their Senators?
How often do biologist write to newspaper EDITORS when the paper refers
to evolution as a "theory" instead of as a fact?
Why is it that the creationist are the only ones who know how to play
the political game?
With more and more conservitives in office, more and more "Right wing
Christians" setting policy; how long do you think biology will continue
to "win" court decisions in favor of teaching science?
I want to see a "Million Biologist march" letting the Government know
that science is important.
Rod #613
ro...@my-deja.com
>
> If they are successful in getting money from Congress, you can kiss
> science good-bye! The proliferation of "Discovery Institutes" will be
> mind boggling!
>
> Barwood
And what are the Universities doing?
How many biologist are talking to their congresspeople?
How many university presidents are on the phone with their Senators?
How often do biologist write to newspaper EDITORS when the paper refers
to evolution as a "theory" instead of as a fact?
Why is it that the creationist are the only ones who know how to play
the political game?
With more and more conservitives in office, more and more "Right wing
Christians" setting policy; how long do you think biology will continue
to "win" court decisions in favor of teaching science?
I want to see a "Million Biologist march" letting the Government know
that science is important.
Rod #613
Manan Shah
think that our law makers are THAT idiotic.
SteveL
wrote:
>That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
>
>See:
>http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
Ok, I agree it's bad that the Discovery "Institute" is preaching
creationism to some right-wing Congressmen. But I think it's worse
that a apparently mainstream American news service can publish such
ignorantly supportive bullshit like "While much of the scientific
evidence for design in nature is only now coming to light
publicly......"
and:
that modern science asserts that "humanity is the product not of
design, but of blind chance and natural laws"
Not to mention:
"Yet recent developments in science are turning up startling new
evidence of purpose and intelligent design in the world."
None of the above were creationist quotes but were in the main text of
the story, written by NewsWire's journalist, and they survived the
editor's scrutiny.
Is NewsWire a shadowy front for the creationists? Or are they just
profoundly illiterate scientifically?
Either way, *that's* scary.
SteveL
>Discovery Institute is a non-profit, non-partisan, public policy
>think tank headquartered in Seattle and dealing with national and
>international affairs. For more information browse Discovery's
>website at http://www.discovery.org.
Non-partisan??????????????
Who are NewsWire trying to kid?
hiero5ant
if this is true, then i assure you that my emmigration papers to canada
will be immediately forthcoming (i already have a backup copy in case george
w. "silver spoon" bush wins).
this is truly the worst of all possible worlds.
George Acton
> >
> >See:
> >http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
>
> creationism to some right-wing Congressmen. But I think it's worse
> that a apparently mainstream American news service can publish such
> evidence for design in nature is only now coming to light
>
> and:
>
> that modern science asserts that "humanity is the product not of
> design, but of blind chance and natural laws"
>
>
> "Yet recent developments in science are turning up startling new
> evidence of purpose and intelligent design in the world."
>
> the story, written by NewsWire's journalist, and they survived the
> editor's scrutiny.
>
> Is NewsWire a shadowy front for the creationists? Or are they just
> profoundly illiterate scientifically?
>
> Either way, *that's* scary.
The NYTimes gives space to Behe's gibberings, which is in some ways
worse. We expect it from the nutburger editorial page of the
WSJ, but I'm not sure they've actually printed Behe.
--George Acton
ro...@my-deja.com
Manan Shah <msh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> This is very scary. But I doubt that such a bill would pass. (i dont
> think that our law makers are THAT idiotic.
>
Want to bet they are that idiotic?
They will go with the ignorants who vote and those with money.
My question is:
What are you doing about it?
How many letters have you wrote to your newspaper?
To your congressperson, or Senator?
Talked to a biologist lately?
Have him write an article for the local papers.
Let's not hand the country over to the creationist without attempting
to defend science.
Rod #613
Mitchell Coffey
pleez...@rely.on.this.address (Maarten D. de Jong) wrote:
> Mike Darnell wrote on 9 May 2000 11:04:43 -0400:
> : That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
>
> This is just ... sick.
>
> Which brings me to the reason for responding to this message in the
> first place: how many US senators have a college degree in 'hard'
> science? Surely Behe will take some care not to try and talk to
> someone who can blow his ideas clean out of the water, or at least
> express and defend extreme doubt.
>
> : Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
> : Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
> : (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
>
Netherlands,
> but the US is the most powerful country in the world, so you expect it
> to be ruled by people with brains.
>
> : only now coming to light publicly, its significance for politics
> : and public life is profound.
>
> to cast heaps of doubt on this stupid claim??
>
> Maarten
I have some useful experience to relate.
Back before the Republicans took over Congress I worked for what was
then the House Interior Committee. At one point I co-organized a
hearing on wetlands, under the then-committee chair, Rep. George Miller
of California. The issue was new federal wetlands regulations being
proposed by the Bush Administration. These had - literally - been
written by representatives of the industrial, development and
agricultural interest who wished to make it easier to fill in wetlands.
Organizing the hearings was an intellectual feast, as I got to speak
with most of the leading wetlands scientists in America. In any case,
we (the Democrats) brought to testify two of the nation's top wetlands
scientists (one of them a Dr. Larson; I forgot the other's name,
unfortunately). The punchline was that the only person with a relevant
PhD who the Republicans could get to support them was, quite literally,
a crank. Among other things, he claimed that peat bogs spread at such
a fast rate that they would become a hazard if not contained!
In any case, in my experience, members of Congress and their staff are
generally ignorant on technical issues - with notable exceptions, Rep.
Miller's, for one. More importantly, you're only going to influence
them so far by presenting facts. Showing popular support is another
matter. Whoever here proposed a "million biologist march" is not
completely off the mark.
Mitchell Coffey
_____________________________________________________
"Nostalgia is the handmaiden of fascism"
- Mary Gordon
ro...@my-deja.com
pleez...@rely.on.this.address (Maarten D. de Jong) wrote:
> Mike Darnell wrote on 9 May 2000 11:04:43 -0400:
> : That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
>
> This is just ... sick.
Yes
>
> Which brings me to the reason for responding to this message in the
> first place: how many US senators have a college degree in 'hard'
> science?
Few, if any. Most are Lawyers.
>Surely Behe will take some care not to try and talk to
> someone who can blow his ideas clean out of the water, or at least
> express and defend extreme doubt.
He won't meet those people in the congress.
And he has written nothing in the scientific journals with which to be
criticized. That, however, is something he could be criticized about.
The "publish or perish" idea.
I also want to know if he has ever criticized Johnson's sillier remarks?
I think I will start a thread on this.
Please look for it.
Rod #613
>
> : Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
> : Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
> : Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
> : (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
>
> For example these guys. All Republican, by the looks of things (I
> *wonder* why :) ). I suppose it's just as 'soft' as in the
Netherlands,
> but the US is the most powerful country in the world, so you expect it
> to be ruled by people with brains.
>
> : While much of the scientific evidence for design in nature is
> : only now coming to light publicly, its significance for politics
> : and public life is profound.
>
> Surely the amicus curiae statement of the Nobel laureates is enough
> to cast heaps of doubt on this stupid claim??
>
> Maarten
>
>
Floyd
ro...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <38B81CD3...@indiana.edu>,
> Henry Barwood <hbar...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Mike Darnell wrote:
> >
> > If they are successful in getting money from Congress, you can kiss
> > science good-bye! The proliferation of "Discovery Institutes" will be
> > mind boggling!
> >
> > Barwood
>
> And what are the Universities doing?
> How many biologist are talking to their congresspeople?
> How many university presidents are on the phone with their Senators?
[snip]How many of us have done so? Yanks please contact your
senatorshttp://www.senate.gov/
and representatives
http://clerkweb.house.gov/mbrcmtee/mbrcmtee.htm
What the heck, write to Bill and Al while you're at it!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/
-Floyd
wf...@ptd.net
D. de Jong) wrote:
>Mike Darnell wrote on 9 May 2000 11:04:43 -0400:
>: That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
>
>This is just ... sick.
>
>Which brings me to the reason for responding to this message in the
>first place: how many US senators have a college degree in 'hard'
>science?
if memory serves, i think there are about 2...that's the last figure i
recall from 'physics today'...
Surely Behe will take some care not to try and talk to
>someone who can blow his ideas clean out of the water, or at least
>express and defend extreme doubt.\
no, this train is being conducted by, and for, the religious right.
they will outmaneuver scientists once more...they always have. they
dont know science but they do know politics
>
wf...@ptd.net
wrote:
>That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
>
>See:
>http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
>
>WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
>bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
>Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
>scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
>public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
>Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
>
>Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
>Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
>Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
>(R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
joseph pitts is the GOP's ambassador to the religious right. part of
his weekly duties are to meet with the likes of pat roberston and find
out what they want to have their GOP hand puppets enact into
legislation.
>Leading scientists and scholars in the growing "intelligent
>design" movement will speak at the briefing, and will be available
>for interviews at the private luncheon and the closing reception.
>They include: Prof. Phillip Johnson, Jefferson E. Peyser Professor
>of Law, University of California at Berkeley, Author of Darwin on
>Trial, Reason in the Balance and Defeating Darwinism by Opening
>Minds; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. Michael Behe, Professor of
>Biological Sciences, Lehigh University, Author of Darwin's Black
>Box; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. William Dembski, Associate
>Research Professor and Director of the Michael Polanyi Center,
>Baylor University, and author of The Design Inference and
>Intelligent Design; Discovery Fellow Nancy Pearcey, author of How
gee...an objective crew if i ever saw one. once again we see the
whores of the religious right trying to get through politics what they
cant get through science.
Henry Barwood
American Patriot wrote:
> The winds, they are a-changin.
>
> Dawgies!
You bet! Now the money that would have gone for your little gun toys
will go to support pseudoscience! I can see it now. A new weapon
developed by the Office of Strategic Miracles at the ICR. It consists of
a Miracle generator. You fire a Bible at the Enemy and then pray like
Hell that a one-time Special Creation Event turns it into a Photon
Torpedo!
Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you pretend
to be on this newsgroup, AP.
Barwood
Paul J Gans
>> >
>> >See:
>> >http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
>>
>> creationism to some right-wing Congressmen. But I think it's worse
>> that a apparently mainstream American news service can publish such
>> evidence for design in nature is only now coming to light
>>
>> and:
>>
>> that modern science asserts that "humanity is the product not of
>> design, but of blind chance and natural laws"
>>
>>
>> "Yet recent developments in science are turning up startling new
>> evidence of purpose and intelligent design in the world."
>>
>> the story, written by NewsWire's journalist, and they survived the
>> editor's scrutiny.
>>
>> Is NewsWire a shadowy front for the creationists? Or are they just
>> profoundly illiterate scientifically?
>>
>> Either way, *that's* scary.
>The NYTimes gives space to Behe's gibberings, which is in some ways
>worse. We expect it from the nutburger editorial page of the
>WSJ, but I'm not sure they've actually printed Behe.
> --George Acton
At the risk of annoying *everyone*: Evolution is a FACT.
Tell folks to stop worrying about the theory of evolution.
Evolution is a fact.
The New York Times does not know this. The Wall Street
Journal does not know this. NBC News does not know
this.
----- Paul J. Gans [ga...@panix.com]
wf...@ptd.net
wrote:
>In article <8f99d9$8cf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Mike Darnell <mdar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
>>
>> See:
>> http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
>>
>> WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
>> bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
>> Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
>> scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
>> public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
>> Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
>>
>
><snip>
>
>The winds, they are a-changin.
>
>Dawgies!
>
you got that right. having failed in the laboratory, creationists will
now try to get from the government what they failed to get from
science: recognition. since many politicians are whores, they will
succeed.
Henry Barwood
Manan Shah wrote:
>
> This is very scary. But I doubt that such a bill would pass. (i dont
> think that our law makers are THAT idiotic.
You never met any from Indiana, obviously. Hostettler and the Burton's
(Dan and Woody) occupy the shallow end of the gene pool. Remember Dan
Quayle? Souder is in the same mold, but not quite as controversial.
Barwood
John Segerson
chibiabos wrote:
>
> In article <8f99d9$8cf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Mike Darnell
> <mdar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
> >
> > See:
> > http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> >
> > WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
>
> [snip story]
>
> > For more information or to schedule interviews contact Rob
> > Crowther at: 206-292-0401, ext. 107, or at ro...@discovery.org,
> > or browse Discovery Institute's website at
> > http://www.discovery.org/.
> >
> > ------
> > Discovery Institute is a non-profit, non-partisan, public policy
> > think tank headquartered in Seattle and dealing with national and
> > international affairs. For more information browse Discovery's
> > website at http://www.discovery.org.
>
> You'll like this. I read the story, then tried to go to discovery.org
> to learn more about the organization, only to discover that the URL is
> being blocked by my employer's proxy server.
>
> I work for a K-12 public school district in California. I guess there's
> no chance we'll be offering classes in ID any time soon. ;)
>
> -chib
>
I'm distressed to hear this. I hope it isn't what it
appears. Surely it isn't the case that the school district
thinks the students and employees need to be sheltered from
these ideas. If those of us who think otherwise, including
K-12 teachers, don't have what it takes to respond, then it
is already too late for us.
J:-)
Paul J Gans
>In article <39186AE9...@yahoo.com>,
> Manan Shah <msh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> This is very scary. But I doubt that such a bill would pass. (i dont
>> think that our law makers are THAT idiotic.
>>
>Want to bet they are that idiotic?
>They will go with the ignorants who vote and those with money.
>My question is:
>What are you doing about it?
>How many letters have you wrote to your newspaper?
>To your congressperson, or Senator?
>Talked to a biologist lately?
>Have him write an article for the local papers.
>Let's not hand the country over to the creationist without attempting
>to defend science.
And tell them evolution is a fact, not just a theory.
I am *amazed* at how many biologists there are in this group.
If I thought that sarcasm had any chance of working on those
deluded congresscritters, I'd ask if they'd take the opinion
of those folks on foreign policy also...
[rest mercifully deleted]
---- Paul J. Gans [ga...@panix.com]
Christopher A. Lee
>On 9 May 2000 15:07:23 -0400, pleez...@rely.on.this.address (Maarten
>D. de Jong) wrote:
>
>>Mike Darnell wrote on 9 May 2000 11:04:43 -0400:
>>: That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
>>
>>This is just ... sick.
>>
>>Which brings me to the reason for responding to this message in the
>>first place: how many US senators have a college degree in 'hard'
>>science?
>
>if memory serves, i think there are about 2...that's the last figure i
>recall from 'physics today'...
It's not just the US where the government is woefully
ignorant about science although I can't imagine any
other developed country where creationism is taken
seriously.
I hated Margaret Thatcher with an unquenchable hate
for what she did to my country.
But one of her degrees was in chemistry and she understood
science. She was one of the first leaders of any country to
take ozone depletion, global warning etc seriously and
instrumental in it being taken seriously by other leaders.
Ken Cox
> You never met any from Indiana, obviously. Hostettler and the Burton's
> (Dan and Woody) occupy the shallow end of the gene pool. Remember Dan
> Quayle? Souder is in the same mold, but not quite as controversial.
A valuable lesson in keeping your head down and your mouth shut.
--
Ken Cox k...@research.bell-labs.com
rokimo...@my-deja.com
>
> http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
>
> WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
> bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
> Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
> scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
> public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
> Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
>
> Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
> Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
> Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
> (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
>
I know that it is not likely, but this could be a good thing, but judging
from their intended audience I doubt that anything constructive will come
out of the meeting.
Do you think that any of the congressmen will ask them to support their
primary inferences?
This could force the exposure of the lack of credibility of the ID school
of thought. You'd think that, at least, a few congressmen would ask them
to support their assertions, or ask them for an example where their
methodology has worked.
Ron Okimoto
Rebecca M. Stanek
SteveL wrote:
> On 9 May 2000 11:04:43 -0400, Mike Darnell <mdar...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> >That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
> >
> >See:
> >http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
>
> Ok, I agree it's bad that the Discovery "Institute" is preaching
> creationism to some right-wing Congressmen. But I think it's worse
> that a apparently mainstream American news service can publish such
> ignorantly supportive bullshit like "While much of the scientific
> evidence for design in nature is only now coming to light
> publicly......"
>
<snip quotes>
The article was actually a news release, written by the people at the
Discovery Institute, hence the bullshit in the article. My question is
why this went to the "Science Reporter" and not the "Politics Reporter."
:)
~Rebecca
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CWRU doesn't pay me, I pay them (sigh).
Larry Handlin
wrote:
>In article <8f9nl3$6vr$1...@news.tudelft.nl>,
> pleez...@rely.on.this.address (Maarten D. de Jong) wrote:
>> Mike Darnell wrote on 9 May 2000 11:04:43 -0400:
>> : That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
One thing to keep in mind is that the committee chair of the science
committee *is* a PhD in science. And he is a Republican (from
Michigan I think). This is in comparison to the Republicans on
Miller's committee who are all or almost all Westerners and paranoid
about the gummint taking their land. So, the chances of Delay or some
other moron getting some bill to the floor trashing NSF funding for
research on evolution wouldn't fly easily and it would be ugly. Not
to mention universities have become much more sophisticated at
lobbying over the last few years.
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
reply to:lbha...@my-not.com
not-deja--spam protection--figure it out
"They laughed at Galileo. They laughed at Newton.
But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."
-- Carl Sagan
Larry Handlin
>ro...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>>In article <39186AE9...@yahoo.com>,
<snip>
>>> > Leading scientists and scholars in the growing "intelligent
>>> > design" movement will speak at the briefing, and will be available
>>> > for interviews at the private luncheon and the closing reception.
>>> > They include: Prof. Phillip Johnson, Jefferson E. Peyser Professor
>>> > of Law, University of California at Berkeley, Author of Darwin on
>>> > Trial, Reason in the Balance and Defeating Darwinism by Opening
>>> > Minds; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. Michael Behe, Professor of
>>> > Biological Sciences, Lehigh University, Author of Darwin's Black
>>> > Box; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. William Dembski, Associate
>>> > Research Professor and Director of the Michael Polanyi Center,
>>> > Baylor University, and author of The Design Inference and
>>> > Intelligent Design; Discovery Fellow Nancy Pearcey, author of How
>>> > Now Shall We Live? (with Chuck Colson) and of The Soul of Science
>>> > (with Charles Thaxton); and Dr. Stephen Meyer, Associate Professor
>>> > of Philosophy, Whitworth College, Director of Discovery Institute's
>>> > Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture and author of the
>>> > forthcoming book DNA by Design.
>
>I am *amazed* at how many biologists there are in this group.
>If I thought that sarcasm had any chance of working on those
>deluded congresscritters, I'd ask if they'd take the opinion
>of those folks on foreign policy also...
>
Let's not give Congress any ideas--Helms is bad enough.
>[rest mercifully deleted]
>
> ---- Paul J. Gans [ga...@panix.com]
reply to:lbha...@my-not.com
American Patriot
Henry Barwood <hbar...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>
>
> American Patriot wrote:
>
> > The winds, they are a-changin.
> >
> > Dawgies!
>
> will go to support pseudoscience! I can see it now. A new weapon
> developed by the Office of Strategic Miracles at the ICR. It consists
of
> a Miracle generator. You fire a Bible at the Enemy and then pray like
> Hell that a one-time Special Creation Event turns it into a Photon
> Torpedo!
>
> Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you
pretend
> to be on this newsgroup, AP.
>
> Barwood
>
>
I'll be so happy when they quit mandating the teaching of the religion
of evolution in the public system. Now we have a full generation
coming into power, all of which were taught this crap. We therefore
have a good chance of getting rid of it again.
And, to return the favor, I sincerely hope you are not as pig headed in
clinging to a failing system as you appear to be in this newsgroup,
Henry.
--
'Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the
glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible
man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things'
Saint Paul - - - http://communities.msn.com/TalkAboutOrigins
wf...@ptd.net
wrote:
>In article <38B84A01...@indiana.edu>,
> Henry Barwood <hbar...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>> American Patriot wrote:
>>
>> > The winds, they are a-changin.
>> >
>> > Dawgies!
>>
>> You bet! Now the money that would have gone for your little gun toys
>> will go to support pseudoscience! I can see it now. A new weapon
>> developed by the Office of Strategic Miracles at the ICR. It consists
>of
>> a Miracle generator. You fire a Bible at the Enemy and then pray like
>> Hell that a one-time Special Creation Event turns it into a Photon
>> Torpedo!
>>
>> Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you
>pretend
>> to be on this newsgroup, AP.
>>
>> Barwood
>>
>>
>
>I'll be so happy when they quit mandating the teaching of the religion
>of evolution in the public system.
just because your fundamentalist cult beliefs call science religion,
showing the limits of your understanding of both religion and science,
does not make it religion
when the cargo cultists of the pacific called the american merchant
marine 'god', that did not cause the USMM to assume divine status.
your arbitrary views of both the bible and science have no effect on
science.
sorry.
sarah clark
wf...@ptd.net wrote:
> On 9 May 2000 11:04:43 -0400, Mike Darnell <mdar...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> >That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
> >
> >See:
> >http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> >
> >WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
> >bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
> >Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
> >scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
> >public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
> >Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
> >
> >Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
> >Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX),
that must be a mistake.... i guess i had better start
writing some letters....
<snip>
Herb Huston
Mike Darnell <mdar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
}That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
Actually, they're not going to address Congress. The're not even going to
be testifying before a Congressional committee. Some of the more moronic
Congresscritters are hosting some get-togethers. This sort of thing goes
on on Capitol Hill all the time.
}See:
}http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
}
}WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
}bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
}Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
}scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
}public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
}Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
}
}Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
This, of course, is deeply embarrassing for me, but I promise to vote
against Roscoe in November, just as I did in 1992, 1994, 1996, and 1998.
}Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
}Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
}(R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
}
}While much of the scientific evidence for design in nature is
}Discovery Institute's Center for the Renewal of Science and
}Culture, May 10, from noon-1:30 P.M., in the U.S. Capitol Building,
}HC7. Immediately following the luncheon, scientists and scholars
}will address the evidence for design at a special policy briefing
}2-5 p.m. in room 2237 of the Rayburn Office Building. There will be
}a closing reception from 5-7 p.m. Media are invited to attend the
}briefing and reception.
I'm going to try to tip off some of the science reporters for the
_Washington Post_.
}Speakers at the briefing will address questions such as: What is
}the new scientific case for design? How has the Darwinian and
}materialistic worldview influenced public policy in education,
}family policy, welfare, and criminal justice? How could scientific
}evidence for design help resolve the long dispute over the teaching
}of origins in public schools, often described as the "battle
}between creation and evolution?"
}
}Leading scientists and scholars in the growing "intelligent
}design" movement will speak at the briefing, and will be available
}for interviews at the private luncheon and the closing reception.
}They include: Prof. Phillip Johnson, Jefferson E. Peyser Professor
}of Law, University of California at Berkeley, Author of Darwin on
}Trial, Reason in the Balance and Defeating Darwinism by Opening
}Minds; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. Michael Behe, Professor of
}Biological Sciences, Lehigh University, Author of Darwin's Black
}Box; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. William Dembski, Associate
}Research Professor and Director of the Michael Polanyi Center,
}Baylor University, and author of The Design Inference and
}Intelligent Design; Discovery Fellow Nancy Pearcey, author of How
}Now Shall We Live? (with Chuck Colson) and of The Soul of Science
}(with Charles Thaxton); and Dr. Stephen Meyer, Associate Professor
}of Philosophy, Whitworth College, Director of Discovery Institute's
}Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture and author of the
}forthcoming book DNA by Design.
}
}For more information or to schedule interviews contact Rob
}Crowther at: 206-292-0401, ext. 107, or at ro...@discovery.org,
}or browse Discovery Institute's website at
}http://www.discovery.org/.
}
}------
}Discovery Institute is a non-profit, non-partisan, public policy
}think tank headquartered in Seattle and dealing with national and
}international affairs. For more information browse Discovery's
}website at http://www.discovery.org.
}
}-0-
}/U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/
}05/08 09:20
}
}Copyright 2000, U.S. Newswire
}
}
}
}
}Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
}Before you buy.
}
--
Bob Casanova
talk.origins, posted by pleez...@rely.on.this.address
(Maarten D. de Jong):
>Mike Darnell wrote on 9 May 2000 11:04:43 -0400:
>: That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
>
>This is just ... sick.
>
>Which brings me to the reason for responding to this message in the
>first place: how many US senators have a college degree in 'hard'
>science? Surely Behe will take some care not to try and talk to
>someone who can blow his ideas clean out of the water, or at least
>express and defend extreme doubt.
>
>: Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
>: Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
>: Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
>: (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
>
>For example these guys. All Republican, by the looks of things (I
>*wonder* why :) ).
Whereas *I* wonder why you think that both "R" and "D" stand
for "Republican". Hint: "Rep" means "Representative" (as
opposed to "Sen" for "Senator" - the other house).
<snip>
(Note followups, if any)
Bob C.
Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net
(without the spaces, of course)
"Men become civilized, not in proportion to their willingness
to believe, but in proportion to their readiness to doubt."
--H. L. Mencken
Herb Huston
You might be panicking prematurely.
} But I doubt that such a bill would pass.
What bill? There's no mention of legislation in the press release.
} (i dont
}think that our law makers are THAT idiotic.
You must be new; welcome to the U.S. Will Rogers said that when he was in
vaudeville, he read the newspaper before going on stage and then during his
act told the audience what Congress had done that day: "They laughed and
laughed." He also said that Congress was the best body of men that money
could buy.
--
-- Herb Huston
-- hus...@radix.net
-- http://www.radix.net/~huston
Christopher A. Lee
Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
>On 9 May 2000 15:07:23 -0400, the following appeared in
>talk.origins, posted by pleez...@rely.on.this.address
>(Maarten D. de Jong):
>
>>: Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
>>: Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
>>: (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
>>
>>For example these guys. All Republican, by the looks of things (I
>>*wonder* why :) ).
>
>Whereas *I* wonder why you think that both "R" and "D" stand
>for "Republican". Hint: "Rep" means "Representative" (as
>opposed to "Sen" for "Senator" - the other house).
Hint: Perhaps a name like "Maarten D. de Jong"
suggests he comes from The Netherlands or Flemish
Belgium and doesn't know the US shorthand conventions
for describing Washington politicians? Couple that
with the obvious (if you don't know these conventions)
interpretation of "Rep" as an abbreviation for Republican.
The Europeans are very concerned about the actions of
the government of the only remaining superpower.
wf...@ptd.net
wrote:
>
>
>American Patriot wrote:
>
>
>> The winds, they are a-changin.
>>
>> Dawgies!
>
>You bet! Now the money that would have gone for your little gun toys
>will go to support pseudoscience!
well let's kill 2 birds with 1 stone. when creationists ask how we're
gonna protect the US from nuclear missiles, let's let god do it. if
it's an answer for evolution, why dont they think it's an answer for
other areas?
Matt Silberstein
hus...@Radix.Net (Herb Huston):
|In article <39186AE9...@yahoo.com>,
|Manan Shah <msh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
|}This is very scary.
|
|You might be panicking prematurely.
|
|} But I doubt that such a bill would pass.
|
|What bill? There's no mention of legislation in the press release.
|
|} (i dont
|}think that our law makers are THAT idiotic.
|
|You must be new; welcome to the U.S. Will Rogers said that when he was in
|vaudeville, he read the newspaper before going on stage and then during his
|act told the audience what Congress had done that day: "They laughed and
|laughed." He also said that Congress was the best body of men that money
|could buy.
And Mark Twain said "Let sleeping dogs lie. But when it is important,
get a politician." He said something else rather appropriate: "God
made idiots for practice, then he made school boards."
--
Matt Silberstein (Honorary Radical Lesbian)
The beast in me
is caged by frail and fragile bars
Restless by day
and by night rants and rages at the stars
God help the beast in me
N Lowe, but listen to the J. Cash version (American Recordings)
Robert Parson
Maarten D. de Jong <pleez...@rely.on.this.address> wrote:
>Which brings me to the reason for responding to this message in the
>first place: how many US senators have a college degree in 'hard'
>science?
I don't know about the Senate, but there are two Ph.D. physicists in
the House, Vern Ehlers (Republican from Michigan) and Rush Holt
(Democrat from New Jersey). ISTR reading that they are the only Ph.D.
scientists in the present Congress, but I am not sure.
Jamie Schrumpf
hus...@Radix.Net (Herb Huston) wrote:
> In article <8f99d9$8cf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Mike Darnell <mdar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> }That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
>
> Actually, they're not going to address Congress. The're not even
going to
> be testifying before a Congressional committee. Some of the more
moronic
> Congresscritters are hosting some get-togethers. This sort of thing
goes
> on on Capitol Hill all the time.
So they'll probably be preaching to the choir. Well, not much harm
there; it's the possibility of new conversions that worries me.
>
> }See:
> }http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> }
> }WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
> }bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
> }Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
> }scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
> }public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
> }Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
> }
> }Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
>
> This, of course, is deeply embarrassing for me, but I promise to vote
> against Roscoe in November, just as I did in 1992, 1994, 1996, and
1998.
Wow, Herb, I didn't realize we were such close neighbors. I, too, have
been trying to vote Bartlett out of office for that long. I'm not sure
what he's done for the people of our district to get re-elected so
regularly, except for his virulent anti-Clintonism. IIRC, Bartlett's
big break was his expose of the Clinton aides that took a helicopter
ride from the White House out to Holly Hills Country Club back in 1992.
Since then, he's sponsored such efforts as defending the soldier who
didn't want to wear the United Nations helmet and insignia and the
anti-Playboy-at-the-base-exchange movement, all of vital interest to the
people of our district.
I wonder if these folk realize what the implications of intelligent
design would be if applied to observed phenomena: organisms are not
perfectly designed, as the human food/air intake problem and "junk" DNA
indicate, for example. Taken together and viewed through an ID lens,
these observations strongly indicate a flawed designer, who is most
certainly not omnipotent and made design choices that show the
application of risk management at work.
If you look closely enough, you see that taking these risks still allows
enough of the organisms to reproduce that natural selection would not
select against them, thus not falsifying evolution -- but if this kind
of person could reason that well, they wouldn't be creationist anyway.
But I digress.
The point being that the "designer" suggested by observed phenomena is
not the omnipotent God of Abraham, but a really, really good genetic
engineer with mortal failings, such as where humans might be at the end
of this century or the next if our genetic engineering skills keep
maturing at the rate they have over the past 50 years.
Is this really where these people want to go?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jamie Schrumpf
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jamie Schrumpf
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson
hrgr...@my-deja.com
> >
> >
> > American Patriot wrote:
> >
> > > The winds, they are a-changin.
> > >
> > > Dawgies!
> >
> > You bet! Now the money that would have gone for your little gun toys
> > developed by the Office of Strategic Miracles at the ICR. It
consists
> of
> > a Miracle generator. You fire a Bible at the Enemy and then pray
like
> > Hell that a one-time Special Creation Event turns it into a Photon
> > Torpedo!
> >
> > Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you
> pretend
> > to be on this newsgroup, AP.
> >
> > Barwood
> >
> >
>
> I'll be so happy when they quit mandating the teaching of the religion
> of evolution in the public system.
Yes, I agree with you that ceremonies of the *religion* of evolution
(like sacrificial burnings of Bibles in honor of Charles Darwin) have
to stop in the schools :-)
For the sake of your country, I hope however that they'll continue to
teach the fact and theory of evolution in the schools. They will do so
in all other countries, you know ....
HRG.
<snip>
Boikat
>
> American Patriot wrote:
>
>
> > The winds, they are a-changin.
> >
> > Dawgies!
>
> You bet! Now the money that would have gone for your little gun toys
> will go to support pseudoscience! I can see it now. A new weapon
> developed by the Office of Strategic Miracles at the ICR. It consists of
> a Miracle generator. You fire a Bible at the Enemy and then pray like
> Hell that a one-time Special Creation Event turns it into a Photon
> Torpedo!
>
> Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you pretend
> to be on this newsgroup, AP.
I sometimes think he's really a supporter of
evolution that's hell bent on making creationists
look like the stupidest, most ignorant, lamers
ever to crawl out from under a rock.
But then again...
Boikat
>
> Barwood
Boikat
> >
> >
> > American Patriot wrote:
> >
> > > The winds, they are a-changin.
> > >
> > > Dawgies!
> >
> > You bet! Now the money that would have gone for your little gun toys
> > will go to support pseudoscience! I can see it now. A new weapon
> > developed by the Office of Strategic Miracles at the ICR. It consists
> of
> > a Miracle generator. You fire a Bible at the Enemy and then pray like
> > Hell that a one-time Special Creation Event turns it into a Photon
> > Torpedo!
> >
> > Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you
> pretend
> > to be on this newsgroup, AP.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I'll be so happy when they quit mandating the teaching of the religion
> coming into power, all of which were taught this crap. We therefore
> have a good chance of getting rid of it again.
>
> And, to return the favor, I sincerely hope you are not as pig headed in
> clinging to a failing system as you appear to be in this newsgroup,
> Henry.
>
(Keep up the good work, AP. You're making the
creationists look like a pack of slobbering,
drooling morons. Perhaps you should go to DC too,
and attach yourself to the coat tails of the
IDer's, and try to speak before congress too. Who
knows, you may do so well at showing how
intellectually dishonest one has to be in order to
be a creationist, that congress will have a good
laugh, then get back to work after recess is
over.)
Boikat
> --
> 'Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the
> glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible
> man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things'
> Saint Paul - - - http://communities.msn.com/TalkAboutOrigins
>
Boikat
>
> This is very scary. But I doubt that such a bill would pass. (i dont
> think that our law makers are THAT idiotic.
>
As far as I can tell, there's no bill. What they
obviously are planing to do is rant about "Godless
Science" (evolution in particular) and it's
adverse effects on society, followed by appealing
to the re-election minded Congress members that
if they are "True 'merican's, they will listen to
their "God fearing hearts" (1) and reject this
evil, satan inspired 'religion" called
"evolution", in order to soften them up for the
bill's which *will* come, that will attempt to
allow for ID to be taught in *public schools*.
It sounds to me like it's the beginning of the
first assault of "The Wedge".
(1) No politician in his right mind would ever
dream of admitting that he doesn't believe in God.
Boikat
> Mike Darnell wrote:
>
> > That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
> >
> > See:
> > http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> >
> > WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
> > bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
> > Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
> > scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
> > public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
> > Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
> >
> > Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
Boikat
> >
> > >That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
> > >
> > >See:
> > >http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> >
> > creationism to some right-wing Congressmen. But I think it's worse
> > that a apparently mainstream American news service can publish such
> > evidence for design in nature is only now coming to light
> >
>
> <snip quotes>
>
> The article was actually a news release, written by the people at the
> Discovery Institute, hence the bullshit in the article. My question is
> why this went to the "Science Reporter" and not the "Politics Reporter."
> :)
>
Because the average readership in America will
then take it as "twue!", since the average
readership in America is "less than knowledgeable"
(1) of science in general.
(Believe it or not, I was being nice. Bletch!)
Boikat
Boikat
> > That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
> >
> > See:
> > http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> >
> > bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
> > Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
> > scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
> > public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
> > Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
> >
> > Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
> > Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
> > Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
> > (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
> >
>
> I know that it is not likely, but this could be a good thing, but judging
> from their intended audience I doubt that anything constructive will come
> out of the meeting.
>
> Do you think that any of the congressmen will ask them to support their
> primary inferences?
>
> This could force the exposure of the lack of credibility of the ID school
> of thought. You'd think that, at least, a few congressmen would ask them
> to support their assertions, or ask them for an example where their
> methodology has worked.
What? And be branded a Godless, Satanic,
Heathenistic, Materialistic, Evil-utionist (and
probably a Communist too!) during an election
year? Are you mad?!
(The correct response should be "Yes. Hopping
mad!")
:}
Boikat
>
> Ron Okimoto
Mike Painter
<ro...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8f9tub$p6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <39186AE9...@yahoo.com>,
> Manan Shah <msh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > This is very scary. But I doubt that such a bill would pass. (i dont
> > think that our law makers are THAT idiotic.
> >
>
> They will go with the ignorants who vote and those with money.
> My question is:
> What are you doing about it?
> How many letters have you wrote to your newspaper?
> To your congressperson, or Senator?
> Talked to a biologist lately?
> Have him write an article for the local papers.
> Let's not hand the country over to the creationist without attempting
> to defend science.
Money might be what saves us.
The big pharmacutical companies, hell, even the small ones are rolling in
dough and they know what will happen if the fundies get their way.
Russia and Lamarkism would pale by comaprison.
> Rod #613
> > Mike Darnell wrote:
> >
> > > That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
> > >
> > > See:
> > > http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> > >
> > > WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
> > > bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
> > > Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
> > > scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
> > > public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
> > > Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
> > >
> > > Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
> > > Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
> > > Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
> > > (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
> > >
> > > While much of the scientific evidence for design in nature is
Martin Crisp
American Patriot <ttra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8fa8i2$d02$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <38B84A01...@indiana.edu>,
> Henry Barwood <hbar...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > American Patriot wrote:
> >
> > > The winds, they are a-changin.
> > >
> > > Dawgies!
> >
> > You bet! Now the money that would have gone for your little gun toys
> > will go to support pseudoscience! I can see it now. A new weapon
> > developed by the Office of Strategic Miracles at the ICR. It consists
> of
> > a Miracle generator. You fire a Bible at the Enemy and then pray like
> > Hell that a one-time Special Creation Event turns it into a Photon
> > Torpedo!
> >
> > Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you
> pretend
> > to be on this newsgroup, AP.
> >
> > Barwood
> >
> >
>
> I'll be so happy when they quit mandating the teaching of the religion
> of evolution in the public system. Now we have a full generation
> coming into power, all of which were taught this crap. We therefore
> have a good chance of getting rid of it again.
<sarcasm>
Yes, I was most surprised my Catholic primary and high schools taught the
heresy that is evilution. You'd think they'd have heard of "Thou shalt not
worship false Gods before me".
</sarcasm>
> And, to return the favor, I sincerely hope you are not as pig headed in
> clinging to a failing system as you appear to be in this newsgroup,
> Henry.
>
> --
> 'Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the
> glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible
> man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things'
> Saint Paul - - - http://communities.msn.com/TalkAboutOrigins
I still can't get over the irony of seeing this at the bottom of a
creationist's posts.
Have Fun
Martin
Maarten D. de Jong
: >: Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
: >: Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
: >: Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
: >: (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
: >For example these guys. All Republican, by the looks of things (I
: >*wonder* why :) ).
:
: Whereas *I* wonder why you think that both "R" and "D" stand
: for "Republican". Hint: "Rep" means "Representative" (as
: opposed to "Sen" for "Senator" - the other house).
Come on... That's an honest mistake by someone not native to the
US :). I can't help it that 'Rep' are the first three letters of
both Republican and Representative! (Republicans are portretted
as quite right-winged over here in Holland---low taxes, high
moral standards, little government interference, the works) so
it was a sort of Pavlov reaction to associate this get-together
with Republican. Perhaps the press is overdoing it.
OTOH, I am told that an outsider will have a tough time telling
the difference between Democrat and Republican, so...
Maarten
Herb Huston
Jamie Schrumpf <jsch...@my-deja.com> wrote:
}In article <8fabjc$e9i$1...@saltmine.radix.net>,
} hus...@Radix.Net (Herb Huston) wrote:
}> In article <8f99d9$8cf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
}> Mike Darnell <mdar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
}> }That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
}>
}> Actually, they're not going to address Congress. The're not even
}going to
}> be testifying before a Congressional committee. Some of the more
}moronic
}> Congresscritters are hosting some get-togethers. This sort of thing
}goes
}> on on Capitol Hill all the time.
}
}So they'll probably be preaching to the choir. Well, not much harm
}there; it's the possibility of new conversions that worries me.
Note that the luncheon is private (probably by invitation only). It's
rather embarrassing to have most of the audience leave when there's no more
freed food.
}> }See:
}> }http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
}> }
}> }WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
}> }bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
}> }Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
}> }scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
}> }public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
}> }Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
}> }
}> }Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
}>
}> This, of course, is deeply embarrassing for me, but I promise to vote
}> against Roscoe in November, just as I did in 1992, 1994, 1996, and
}1998.
}
}Wow, Herb, I didn't realize we were such close neighbors. I, too, have
}been trying to vote Bartlett out of office for that long. I'm not sure
}what he's done for the people of our district to get re-elected so
}regularly, except for his virulent anti-Clintonism. IIRC, Bartlett's
}big break was his expose of the Clinton aides that took a helicopter
}ride from the White House out to Holly Hills Country Club back in 1992.
Bush was president in 1992.
}Since then, he's sponsored such efforts as defending the soldier who
}didn't want to wear the United Nations helmet and insignia and the
}anti-Playboy-at-the-base-exchange movement, all of vital interest to the
}people of our district.
My fondest memories of Roscoe are his statement that folks with Asian
surnames weren't "real Americans" and his being cited by the county health
department for leaving sheep carcasses to rot on his farm.
I live close enough to the border of the Sixth District that Census 2000
may come to my rescue; it was the 1990 Census that had moved me from the
Fourth District.
American Patriot
Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Henry Barwood wrote:
> >
> > American Patriot wrote:
> >
> >
> > > The winds, they are a-changin.
> > >
> > > Dawgies!
> >
> > You bet! Now the money that would have gone for your little gun toys
> > will go to support pseudoscience! I can see it now. A new weapon
> > developed by the Office of Strategic Miracles at the ICR. It
consists of
> > a Miracle generator. You fire a Bible at the Enemy and then pray
like
> > Hell that a one-time Special Creation Event turns it into a Photon
> > Torpedo!
> >
> > Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you
pretend
> > to be on this newsgroup, AP.
>
> evolution that's hell bent on making creationists
> look like the stupidest, most ignorant, lamers
> ever to crawl out from under a rock.
>
> But then again...
You don't need me for that -
>
> Boikat
> >
> > Barwood
>
>
:^)
--
'Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the
glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible
man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things'
Saint Paul - - - http://communities.msn.com/TalkAboutOrigins
American Patriot
Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Henry Barwood wrote:
> >
> > American Patriot wrote:
> >
> >
> > > The winds, they are a-changin.
> > >
> > > Dawgies!
> >
> > You bet! Now the money that would have gone for your little gun toys
> > will go to support pseudoscience! I can see it now. A new weapon
> > developed by the Office of Strategic Miracles at the ICR. It
consists of
> > a Miracle generator. You fire a Bible at the Enemy and then pray
like
> > Hell that a one-time Special Creation Event turns it into a Photon
> > Torpedo!
> >
> > Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you
pretend
> > to be on this newsgroup, AP.
>
> I sometimes think he's really a supporter of
> evolution that's hell bent on making creationists
> look like the stupidest, most ignorant, lamers
> ever to crawl out from under a rock.
>
> But then again...
>
> >
> > Barwood
>
>
You guys are, of course, model poster children for the 'hard science'
of evolution, right? You demonstrate to everyone what decent, moral
human beings evolutionists can be. You make me proud that I rejected
this false religion.
Jim Brock
<wf...@ptd.net> wrote in message news:39188488...@news.ptd.net...
> On 9 May 2000 11:04:43 -0400, Mike Darnell <mdar...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> >That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
> >
> >http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> >
> >WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
> >bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
> >Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
> >scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
> >public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
> >Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
> >
> >Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
> >Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
> >(R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
>
> his weekly duties are to meet with the likes of pat roberston and find
> out what they want to have their GOP hand puppets enact into
> legislation.
>
> >Leading scientists and scholars in the growing "intelligent
> >design" movement will speak at the briefing, and will be available
> >for interviews at the private luncheon and the closing reception.
> >They include: Prof. Phillip Johnson, Jefferson E. Peyser Professor
> >of Law, University of California at Berkeley, Author of Darwin on
> >Trial, Reason in the Balance and Defeating Darwinism by Opening
> >Minds; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. Michael Behe, Professor of
> >Biological Sciences, Lehigh University, Author of Darwin's Black
> >Box; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. William Dembski, Associate
> >Research Professor and Director of the Michael Polanyi Center,
> >Baylor University, and author of The Design Inference and
> >Intelligent Design; Discovery Fellow Nancy Pearcey, author of How
>
> whores of the religious right trying to get through politics what they
> cant get through science.
>
I think its like time to take up our guns and go after the nutcase
creationest
jim
Jim Brock
George Acton <gac...@softdisk.com> wrote in message
news:391874...@softdisk.com...
> SteveL wrote:
> >
> > On 9 May 2000 11:04:43 -0400, Mike Darnell <mdar...@my-deja.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
> > >
> > >See:
> > >http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> >
> > creationism to some right-wing Congressmen. But I think it's worse
> > that a apparently mainstream American news service can publish such
> > evidence for design in nature is only now coming to light
> >
> > and:
> >
> > that modern science asserts that "humanity is the product not of
> > design, but of blind chance and natural laws"
> >
> >
> > "Yet recent developments in science are turning up startling new
> > evidence of purpose and intelligent design in the world."
> >
> > the story, written by NewsWire's journalist, and they survived the
> > editor's scrutiny.
> >
> > Is NewsWire a shadowy front for the creationists? Or are they just
> > profoundly illiterate scientifically?
> >
> > Either way, *that's* scary.
>
> The NYTimes gives space to Behe's gibberings, which is in some ways
> worse. We expect it from the nutburger editorial page of the
> WSJ, but I'm not sure they've actually printed Behe.
> --George Acton
>
Maybe its time to take up our guns and go after the nutburgers.
jim
acker james
: }WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
: }bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
: }Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
: }scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
: }public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
: }Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
: }
: }Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
: This, of course, is deeply embarrassing for me, but I promise to vote
: against Roscoe in November, just as I did in 1992, 1994, 1996, and 1998.
I didn't think you lived in Roscum's district, Herb. I tried
to help campaign against him in 1998 (because western Howard is in his
district), but I was informed that most of the area he represents is
western Maryland, which is actually a different *country* than eastern
Maryland. ;-)
Actually not, of course, but it has an entirely different
climate. People in western Maryland keep snowmobiles in their backyards.
Jim Acker
*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
Jim Acker
jac...@gl.umbc.edu
A second flood, a simple famine, plagues of locusts everywhere,
Or a cataclysmic earthquake, I'd accept with some despair.
But no, you sent us Congress! Good God, sir, was that fair?
--- John Adams, "Piddle, Twiddle, and Resolve", from the
musical "1776"
John Monrad
article <8fbh0s$o11$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> Boikat <boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > Henry Barwood wrote:
[...]
> > > Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you
> pretend
> > > to be on this newsgroup, AP.
> >
> > I sometimes think he's really a supporter of
> > evolution that's hell bent on making creationists
> > look like the stupidest, most ignorant, lamers
> > ever to crawl out from under a rock.
> >
> > But then again...
>
> You don't need me for that -
C'mon, Boikat, Terry's correct. By your criteria, Suzanne has got
to be the grand champion sublithic homesteader; Terry's merely sub-
letting space.
~~
John Monrad
acker james
: In article <38B84A01...@indiana.edu>,
: Henry Barwood <hbar...@indiana.edu> wrote:
:>
:>
:> American Patriot wrote:
:>
:> > The winds, they are a-changin.
:> >
:> > Dawgies!
:>
:> You bet! Now the money that would have gone for your little gun toys
:> will go to support pseudoscience! I can see it now. A new weapon
:> developed by the Office of Strategic Miracles at the ICR. It consists
: of
:> a Miracle generator. You fire a Bible at the Enemy and then pray like
:> Hell that a one-time Special Creation Event turns it into a Photon
:> Torpedo!
:> Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you
: pretend
:> to be on this newsgroup, AP.
:> Barwood
:>
:>
: I'll be so happy when they quit mandating the teaching of the religion
: of evolution in the public system. Now we have a full generation
: coming into power, all of which were taught this crap. We therefore
: have a good chance of getting rid of it again.
It's this kind of mindless idiocy that makes good Christians
shake their heads in dismay. You do realize (actually I doubt that
you do, since normal thought processes don't seem to be taking place
in your brain) that this whole "religion of evolution" ploy is a
propaganda piece promulgated by right-wing lawyers and their co-conspirators?
Philip Johnson wants to get religion back INTO the science classroom
by means of this end run. As a Christian it hurts me when I see
Johnson making statements that imply dishonest conspiracy and collusion
among scientists. As a scientist it hurts me to see the distortions
he puts forth as examples to support his misguided thesis.
If we didn't teach evolution, why would scientists be so
encouraged by the fact that the entire sequence of human chromosome
21 has been mapped? Think about that for a second, if that's
possible. Do you even know the significance of mapping chromosome
21? If you want help, read this:
http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/05/08/chromo.21/index.html
That's what comes of teaching the "religion of evolution
in public schools", AP. Advances that may help eliminated dread
diseases and mental retardation. But no, you'd like to encourage
mental retardation by taking the teaching of basic science out of
the schools, encouraging ignorance and closed-mindedness.
It's hard for me to believe that you're a pastor. All you
sound like is a windbag.
: --
: 'Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the
: glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible
: man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things'
: Saint Paul - - - http://communities.msn.com/TalkAboutOrigins
"I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing
with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in
eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation
was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of
the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be
liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom
of the children of God."
Jim Acker
The .sig is particularly apropos today.
howard hershey
>
> In article <38B81CD3...@indiana.edu>,
> Henry Barwood <hbar...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Mike Darnell wrote:
> >
> > If they are successful in getting money from Congress, you can kiss
> > science good-bye! The proliferation of "Discovery Institutes" will be
> > mind boggling!
> >
> > Barwood
>
> And what are the Universities doing?
> How many biologist are talking to their congresspeople?
> How many university presidents are on the phone with their Senators?
>
> How often do biologist write to newspaper EDITORS when the paper refers
> to evolution as a "theory" instead of as a fact?
>
> Why is it that the creationist are the only ones who know how to play
> the political game?
> With more and more conservitives in office, more and more "Right wing
> Christians" setting policy; how long do you think biology will continue
> to "win" court decisions in favor of teaching science?
>
> I want to see a "Million Biologist march" letting the Government know
> that science is important.
I would not. If all you are going to have is bodies on parade, there is
no way to tell how many are really biologists. If there were to be a
countermarch of "A Million Biologists for Creationism" one could get a
much bigger crowd, organized by the Religious Right Churches. Better to
just individually write and point out, even to the attendees (who are
among the dimmest bulbs in an already dumber and dumber institution,
Congress) that they are being subjected to material which is not science
but theology done by philosophers, law professors (well trained in the
art of lying for their client), and the occassional odd crank
mathematician (Dembski seems to come from some medieval school of
scholastic thought, where one tries to present a logical proof of God).
These people agree on nothing of scientific substance (disagreeing
widely even on such matters as the age of the earth or common descent,
for example). None of them have any actual substantive findings
supporting their particular ID views that reach even the most minimal
standards of science such that it can actually be published in a
scientific journal. All they are doing is falsely presenting their
theology as science.
>
> Rod #613
[snip]
Rebecca M. Stanek
American Patriot wrote:
> <snip stuff by just about everyone>
>
> You guys are, of course, model poster children for the 'hard science'
> of evolution, right? You demonstrate to everyone what decent, moral
> human beings evolutionists can be. You make me proud that I rejected
> this false religion.
>
<Smacking forehead> Of course!!! Well geez, why didn't I think of this?
No wonder my parents raised my brother and I to be kind, moral, responsible,
and honest individuals! I've always wondered why my family was happy, and
why we did stuff together -- like eat dinner together most nights, and
attend church on Sundays. You know, it is awfully suspicious: my parents
are active in our church, volunteer lots of time with the school district,
and know what's going on in the lives of my brother and myself. DUH!!!
It's all because of the false religion of evolution!
Of course, I am in astronomy, and my brother plans on a career in
archaeology, so I don't suppose AmPat would approve, since neither endeavor
is Biblically based, or even Biblically sound.
> <snip>
Paul J Gans
>On 9 May 2000 16:55:39 -0400, Mitchell Coffey <cof...@my-deja.com>
>wrote:
>>In article <8f9nl3$6vr$1...@news.tudelft.nl>,
>> pleez...@rely.on.this.address (Maarten D. de Jong) wrote:
>>> Mike Darnell wrote on 9 May 2000 11:04:43 -0400:
>>> : That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
>One thing to keep in mind is that the committee chair of the science
>committee *is* a PhD in science. And he is a Republican (from
>Michigan I think). This is in comparison to the Republicans on
>Miller's committee who are all or almost all Westerners and paranoid
>about the gummint taking their land. So, the chances of Delay or some
>other moron getting some bill to the floor trashing NSF funding for
>research on evolution wouldn't fly easily and it would be ugly. Not
>to mention universities have become much more sophisticated at
>lobbying over the last few years.
[good stuff deleted]
Further, this is a presidential election year. So nobody is
going to bring a bill up in Congress that will win no further
votes on the right and cost them big-time in the center.
I'd not count on universities. If there is one lesson
universities learned during the Vietnamese war it is that
going public on divisive issues cost them big-time.
---- Paul J. Gans [ga...@panix.com]
Paul J Gans
>On 9 May 2000 17:48:17 -0400, Paul J Gans <ga...@panix.com> wrote:
>>ro...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>>>In article <39186AE9...@yahoo.com>,
><snip>
>>>> > Leading scientists and scholars in the growing "intelligent
>>>> > design" movement will speak at the briefing, and will be available
>>>> > for interviews at the private luncheon and the closing reception.
>>>> > They include: Prof. Phillip Johnson, Jefferson E. Peyser Professor
>>>> > of Law, University of California at Berkeley, Author of Darwin on
>>>> > Trial, Reason in the Balance and Defeating Darwinism by Opening
>>>> > Minds; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. Michael Behe, Professor of
>>>> > Biological Sciences, Lehigh University, Author of Darwin's Black
>>>> > Box; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. William Dembski, Associate
>>>> > Research Professor and Director of the Michael Polanyi Center,
>>>> > Baylor University, and author of The Design Inference and
>>>> > Intelligent Design; Discovery Fellow Nancy Pearcey, author of How
>>>> > Now Shall We Live? (with Chuck Colson) and of The Soul of Science
>>>> > (with Charles Thaxton); and Dr. Stephen Meyer, Associate Professor
>>>> > of Philosophy, Whitworth College, Director of Discovery Institute's
>>>> > Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture and author of the
>>>> > forthcoming book DNA by Design.
>>
>>I am *amazed* at how many biologists there are in this group.
>>If I thought that sarcasm had any chance of working on those
>>deluded congresscritters, I'd ask if they'd take the opinion
>>of those folks on foreign policy also...
>>
>Let's not give Congress any ideas--Helms is bad enough.
You've got a good point there....
----- Paul J. Gans [ga...@panix.com]
Badash54
>gonna protect the US from nuclear missiles, let's let god do it. if
>it's an answer for evolution, why dont they think it's an answer for
>other areas?
>
There you go using common sense again. If your gonna keep doing that they'll
never stand a chance...........sheesh show some mercy :-)
Scott
Badash54
>to help campaign against him in 1998 (because western Howard is in his
>district), but I was informed that most of the area he represents is
>western Maryland, which is actually a different *country* than eastern
>Maryland. ;-)
>
> Actually not, of course, but it has an entirely different
>climate. People in western Maryland keep snowmobiles in their backyards.
>
> Jim Acker
I recently moved off the Eastern Shore which was a differrt country also. Boats
in every backyard.
Scott
Ferrous Patella
says...
>
>Bob Casanova wrote on 9 May 2000 20:52:47 -0400:
>: >: Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
>: >: Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
>: >: (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
>: >For example these guys. All Republican, by the looks of things (I
>: >*wonder* why :) ).
>:
>: Whereas *I* wonder why you think that both "R" and "D" stand
>: for "Republican". Hint: "Rep" means "Representative" (as
>: opposed to "Sen" for "Senator" - the other house).
>
>Come on... That's an honest mistake by someone not native to the
>US :). I can't help it that 'Rep' are the first three letters of
>both Republican and Representative! (Republicans are portretted
>as quite right-winged over here in Holland---low taxes, high
>moral standards, little government interference, the works) so
>it was a sort of Pavlov reaction to associate this get-together
>with Republican. Perhaps the press is overdoing it.
>
>OTOH, I am told that an outsider will have a tough time telling
>the difference between Democrat and Republican, so...
>
>
>Maarten
>
LOL
Ferrous Patella
Paul J. Koeck
> >
> > http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> >
> > WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
> > bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
> > Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
> > scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
> > public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
> > Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
> >
>
>
> The winds, they are a-changin.
>
> Dawgies!
>
> 'Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the
> glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible
> man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things'
> Saint Paul - - - http://communities.msn.com/TalkAboutOrigins
Sadly, you probably have no concept of exactly how appropriate
this quote from Paul is, for it fits the actions of cretinists like a
silk glove.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
--
Paul J. Koeck, #360
EAC MindControl Beam(tm) Operator #34529085783828-4875
EAC Tech - Personal Mind Control at a great price!
Volume discounts available.
Don't let reality hit you in the ass on your way out.
Only an idiot or a PromiseKeeper cult member would
think that my opinions necessarily reflect those of
my employer.
To reply, change Byte.Me to newsguy
George Acton
> > >design" movement will speak at the briefing, and will be available
> > >for interviews at the private luncheon and the closing reception.
> > >They include: Prof. Phillip Johnson, Jefferson E. Peyser Professor
> > >of Law, University of California at Berkeley, Author of Darwin on
> > >Trial, Reason in the Balance and Defeating Darwinism by Opening
> > >Minds; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. Michael Behe, Professor of
> > >Biological Sciences, Lehigh University, Author of Darwin's Black
> > >Box; Discovery Senior Fellow Dr. William Dembski, Associate
> > >Research Professor and Director of the Michael Polanyi Center,
> > >Baylor University, and author of The Design Inference and
> > >Intelligent Design; Discovery Fellow Nancy Pearcey, author of How
> >
> > whores of the religious right trying to get through politics what they
> > cant get through science.
> >
> creationest
> jim
Aside from a general aversion to violence, a Machievellian view
is that we don't want to dreat martyrs to a dim cause. And I
don't think they are nutcases. There's a fair amount of
calculation and manipulation of uneducated people, as you can
see in some of the Wedge materials. Several years ago, I read
some materials on the Web about Johnsn's activities, and there
was an account of his travels. He visits outposts of Creationist
followers, especially in colleges and universities. I don't know
how much money he makes, but I had the impression that there's a
big ego trip in flying in for a lecture to the faithful at
Podunk U. and getting treated like St. Paul visiting the flock
at Phillipi.
--George Acton
R. (Bob) Dean
Badash54 <bada...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000510131843...@ng-fu1.aol.com...
> >well let's kill 2 birds with 1 stone. when creationists ask how we're
> >gonna protect the US from nuclear missiles, let's let god do it. if
> >it's an answer for evolution, why dont they think it's an answer for
> >other areas?
> >
attack. Christians do not wait for God, inspite of this misapprehension.
>
> There you go using common sense again. If your gonna keep doing that
they'll
> never stand a chance...........sheesh show some mercy :-)
>
Bob
> Scott
>
Floyd
Herb Huston wrote:
> In article <39186AE9...@yahoo.com>,
> Manan Shah <msh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
[snip]
> He also said that Congress was the best body of men that money
> could buy.
There's been considerable inflation since then, I guess.
-Floyd
acker james
luncheon, asking that he evaluate the claims of the group with skepticism
and also apprising him (the office, actually) of the existence of
"The Wedge Strategy". I expressed my concern about the agenda of
this group due to Christian faith and my practice of science.
It'll probably have no impact, but I had to try. If I'd
been free of required activities I would have gone down and protested,
but that couldn't happen. Oh well.
Jim Acker
Ken Cox
> Herb Huston wrote:
> > He also said that Congress was the best body of men that money
> > could buy.
> There's been considerable inflation since then, I guess.
And considerable progress in the area of women's rights.
--
Ken Cox k...@research.bell-labs.com
ro...@my-deja.com
"Jim Brock" <j...@home.moderated.news.pipex.net> wrote:
>
> George Acton <gac...@softdisk.com> wrote in message
> news:391874...@softdisk.com...
> > SteveL wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >See:
> > > >http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> > >
> > > creationism to some right-wing Congressmen. But I think it's worse
> > > that a apparently mainstream American news service can publish
such
> > > ignorantly supportive bullshit like "While much of the scientific
> > > evidence for design in nature is only now coming to light
> > > publicly......"
> > >
> > > and:
> > >
> > > that modern science asserts that "humanity is the product not of
> > > design, but of blind chance and natural laws"
> > >
> > > Not to mention:
> > >
> > > "Yet recent developments in science are turning up startling new
> > > evidence of purpose and intelligent design in the world."
> > >
> > > None of the above were creationist quotes but were in the main
text of
> > > the story, written by NewsWire's journalist, and they survived the
> > > editor's scrutiny.
> > >
> > > Is NewsWire a shadowy front for the creationists? Or are they just
> > > profoundly illiterate scientifically?
> > >
> > > Either way, *that's* scary.
> >
> > The NYTimes gives space to Behe's gibberings, which is in some ways
> > worse. We expect it from the nutburger editorial page of the
> > WSJ, but I'm not sure they've actually printed Behe.
> > --George Acton
> >
> jim
No! No! No!
We will not resort to those means.
Science must be supported by honesty and intelligence.
Not violence.
Rod #613
chibiabos
<sem...@olywa.net> wrote:
> chibiabos wrote:
> >
> > In article <8f99d9$8cf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Mike Darnell
> > <mdar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> > > That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
> > >
> > > See:
> > > http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> > >
> > > WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
> >
> > [snip story]
> >
> > > For more information or to schedule interviews contact Rob
> > > Crowther at: 206-292-0401, ext. 107, or at ro...@discovery.org,
> > > or browse Discovery Institute's website at
> > > http://www.discovery.org/.
> > >
> > > ------
> > > Discovery Institute is a non-profit, non-partisan, public policy
> > > think tank headquartered in Seattle and dealing with national and
> > > international affairs. For more information browse Discovery's
> > > website at http://www.discovery.org.
> >
> > You'll like this. I read the story, then tried to go to discovery.org
> > to learn more about the organization, only to discover that the URL is
> > being blocked by my employer's proxy server.
> >
> > I work for a K-12 public school district in California. I guess there's
> > no chance we'll be offering classes in ID any time soon. ;)
> >
> > -chib
> >
>
> I'm distressed to hear this. I hope it isn't what it
> appears. Surely it isn't the case that the school district
> thinks the students and employees need to be sheltered from
> these ideas. If those of us who think otherwise, including
> K-12 teachers, don't have what it takes to respond, then it
> is already too late for us.
>
> J:-)
It's hard to say why the website is blocked. There may have been
complaints or there may be objectionable keywords on the site. Our
proxy blocks every "hate" site it comes across, often based on nothing
more than the frequency of keywords such as "Jew." Same with those
containing sexual content. Sometimes, however, there is no good reason
for it. I've been blocked from websites offering nothing more dangerous
than a recipe for chocolate biscuits. Go figure.
-chib
--
wild(at our first)beasts uttered human words
--our second coming made stones sing like birds--
but o the starhushed silence which our third's
-- e.e. cummings
wf...@ptd.net
wrote:
>>
>
>You guys are, of course, model poster children for the 'hard science'
>of evolution, right? You demonstrate to everyone what decent, moral
>human beings evolutionists can be. You make me proud that I rejected
>this false religion.
>
>:^)
here's a guy who's never heard of positrons, discovered 60 yrs ago,
telling us how science is a religion...
American Patriot
> : Henry Barwood <hbar...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> :>
> :>
> :> American Patriot wrote:
> :>
> :> > The winds, they are a-changin.
> :> >
> :> > Dawgies!
> :>
> :> You bet! Now the money that would have gone for your little gun
toys
> :> will go to support pseudoscience! I can see it now. A new weapon
> :> developed by the Office of Strategic Miracles at the ICR. It
consists
> : of
> :> a Miracle generator. You fire a Bible at the Enemy and then pray
like
> :> Hell that a one-time Special Creation Event turns it into a Photon
> :> Torpedo!
> :>
> :> Pardon the insult, but I really hope you are not as Dumb as you
> : pretend
> :> to be on this newsgroup, AP.
> :>
> :> Barwood
> :>
> :>
>
> : I'll be so happy when they quit mandating the teaching of the
religion
> : of evolution in the public system. Now we have a full generation
> : coming into power, all of which were taught this crap. We therefore
> : have a good chance of getting rid of it again.
>
> It's this kind of mindless idiocy that makes good Christians
> shake their heads in dismay.
You being a 'good Christian', I can tell.
> You do realize (actually I doubt that
> you do, since normal thought processes don't seem to be taking place
> in your brain)
More proof of your being a 'good Christian'.
> that this whole "religion of evolution" ploy is a
> propaganda piece promulgated by right-wing lawyers and their co-
conspirators?
Not at all. I've known evolution was a religion for years; so does
anyone else who has managed to get de-programmed from it. My family
Dr., for instance; says it requires a much greater leap of faith to
accept that all of this 'just happened on it's own' than it takes to
accept a creator. And yes, Mr. Christian, he is a real medical Dr. -
medical degree and everyting.
> Philip Johnson wants to get religion back INTO the science classroom
> by means of this end run.
We are LONG overdue to have some balance returned to the classroom, and
remove the teaching of evolution as a FACT, and the ONLY POSSIBLE
explaination for the existance of all life on this earth. That, sir is
NOT science, but a statement of FAITH ALONE.
> As a Christian it hurts me when I see
> Johnson making statements that imply dishonest conspiracy and
collusion
> among scientists.
I honestly don't know much about Johnson, but I do know of dishonest
conspiracy and collusion among scientists. Every creation scientist I
have ever read is aware of it as well.
> As a scientist it hurts me to see the distortions
> he puts forth as examples to support his misguided thesis.
> If we didn't teach evolution, why would scientists be so
> encouraged by the fact that the entire sequence of human chromosome
> 21 has been mapped?
As usual - the OEE has just done the BIG DEFINITION SWITCH again; we
now are not discussing evolution as ORIGINS of all life from original
single celled life, but we are now discussing the FACT of evolution, or
adaptation, which ALL creationists agree with, and WANT TAUGHT in
school.
> Think about that for a second, if that's
> possible.
More evidence of the 'good Christian'.
> Do you even know the significance of mapping chromosome
> 21? If you want help, read this:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/05/08/chromo.21/index.html
>
> That's what comes of teaching the "religion of evolution
> in public schools", AP. Advances that may help eliminated dread
> diseases and mental retardation. But no, you'd like to encourage
> mental retardation by taking the teaching of basic science out of
> the schools, encouraging ignorance and closed-mindedness.
An absolute, complete, and intentional lie. Nice, Mr 'good
christian'. How can you make such completely false statements? Oh - I
forgot - you're an evolutionist first, and a Christian when it's
convenient.
>
> It's hard for me to believe that you're a pastor. All you
> sound like is a windbag.
I speak the truth, popular or not. You sell the truth to be accepted
in a group that would not urinate on you if you were on fire. Shame on
you. Do you think claims like you make here actually please the Lord
Jesus Christ? Do you think about Him at all? Do you even believe in
Him, or has your acceptance of naturalism replaced him completely in
your heart, Mr. 'good Christian'?
>
> : --
> : 'Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed
the
> : glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to
corruptible
> : man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things'
> : Saint Paul - - - http://communities.msn.com/TalkAboutOrigins
>
> "I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing
> with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in
> eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the
creation
> was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will
of
> the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be
> liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious
freedom
> of the children of God."
>
> Jim Acker
>
> The .sig is particularly apropos today.
>
> *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
> Jim Acker
> jac...@gl.umbc.edu
> A second flood, a simple famine, plagues of locusts everywhere,
> Or a cataclysmic earthquake, I'd accept with some despair.
> But no, you sent us Congress! Good God, sir, was that fair?
> --- John Adams, "Piddle, Twiddle, and Resolve", from the
> musical "1776"
>
>
--
'Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the
glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible
man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things'
Saint Paul - - - http://communities.msn.com/TalkAboutOrigins
American Patriot
"Rebecca M. Stanek" <rm...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
>
>
> American Patriot wrote:
>
> > <snip stuff by just about everyone>
> >
science'
> > of evolution, right? You demonstrate to everyone what decent, moral
> > human beings evolutionists can be. You make me proud that I
rejected
> > this false religion.
> >
>
this?
> No wonder my parents raised my brother and I to be kind, moral,
responsible,
> and honest individuals! I've always wondered why my family was
happy, and
> why we did stuff together -- like eat dinner together most nights, and
> attend church on Sundays. You know, it is awfully suspicious: my
parents
> are active in our church, volunteer lots of time with the school
district,
> and know what's going on in the lives of my brother and myself.
DUH!!!
> It's all because of the false religion of evolution!
>
> Of course, I am in astronomy, and my brother plans on a career in
> archaeology, so I don't suppose AmPat would approve, since neither
endeavor
> is Biblically based, or even Biblically sound.
Any activity can become ungodly, if sufficient effort is placed in that
direction.
I am aware of YEC astronomers and archaeologists that are credits to
their profession.
Now - who taught you that these two fields were not Biblically sound?
Whoever that was, distance yourself from them; they are a liar, who is
attempting to either force you to change your field to remain
Christian, or to leave Christianity to pursue your field. Neither is
at all necessary.
And above all -
Question authority!
>
> > <snip>
>
> ~Rebecca
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> CWRU doesn't pay me, I pay them (sigh).
>
>
--
American Patriot
"Paul J. Koeck" <pko...@Byte.Me.com> wrote:
>
> "American Patriot" <ttra...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8f9o76$q3l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <8f99d9$8cf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > Mike Darnell <mdar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > That's right - Behe and company are going to address Congress.
> > >
> > > See:
> > > http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0508-102.html
> > >
> > > WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
> > > Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
> > > scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
> > > public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S.
Capitol
> > > Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
> > >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >
> > Dawgies!
> >
>
the
> > glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to
corruptible
> > man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things'
> > Saint Paul - - - http://communities.msn.com/TalkAboutOrigins
>
> this quote from Paul is, for it fits the actions of cretinists like a
> silk glove.
Yes, many here say this. Creationists are well known for denying that
God is the creator, and looking instead to animals as the original
source of their human existance.
ROTFLMAO!!
>
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
> >
>
> --
> Paul J. Koeck, #360
>
> EAC MindControl Beam(tm) Operator #34529085783828-4875
>
> EAC Tech - Personal Mind Control at a great price!
> Volume discounts available.
>
> Don't let reality hit you in the ass on your way out.
>
> Only an idiot or a PromiseKeeper cult member would
> think that my opinions necessarily reflect those of
> my employer.
>
> To reply, change Byte.Me to newsguy
>
>
--
Elmer Bataitis
> We are LONG overdue to have some balance returned to the classroom, and
> remove the teaching of evolution as a FACT, and the ONLY POSSIBLE
> explaination for the existance of all life on this earth. That, sir is
> NOT science, but a statement of FAITH ALONE.
Oh cool. I was wondering when we'd get Hindu and American Indian, and
Jewish creation myths taught as science. Glad to hear you support
bringing religious diversity into science classes.
**********************************************************
Elmer Bataitis “Hot dog! Smooch city here I come!”
Planetech Services -Hobbes
716-442-2884
**********************************************************
Bob Casanova
talk.origins, posted by chri...@netcom.com (Christopher A.
Lee):
>In article <rechhssch0ace7r50...@4ax.com>,
>Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
>>On 9 May 2000 15:07:23 -0400, the following appeared in
>>talk.origins, posted by pleez...@rely.on.this.address
>>(Maarten D. de Jong):
>>
>>>: Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
>>>: Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
>>>: Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
>>>: (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
>>>
>>>For example these guys. All Republican, by the looks of things (I
>>>*wonder* why :) ).
>>
>>Whereas *I* wonder why you think that both "R" and "D" stand
>>for "Republican". Hint: "Rep" means "Representative" (as
>>opposed to "Sen" for "Senator" - the other house).
>
>Hint: Perhaps a name like "Maarten D. de Jong"
>suggests he comes from The Netherlands or Flemish
>Belgium and doesn't know the US shorthand conventions
>for describing Washington politicians?
And therefore considers himself fully-qualified to ascribe
moronic behavior solely to Republicans, based on his
intimate knowledge of US politics (sort of as if I were to
comment on actions taken in the British House of Lords). I
understand...
> Couple that
>with the obvious (if you don't know these conventions)
>interpretation of "Rep" as an abbreviation for Republican.
>
>The Europeans are very concerned about the actions of
>the government of the only remaining superpower.
I would be as well, given the actions of the head of the
Administrative branch over the past 7 years.
(Note followups, if any)
Bob C.
Reply to Bob-Casanova @ worldnet.att.net
(without the spaces, of course)
"Men become civilized, not in proportion to their willingness
to believe, but in proportion to their readiness to doubt."
--H. L. Mencken
Elmer Bataitis
> I am aware of YEC astronomers and archaeologists that are credits to
> their profession.
Great. I'd like to know more. Care to name them?
Bob Casanova
talk.origins, posted by pleez...@rely.on.this.address
(Maarten D. de Jong):
>Bob Casanova wrote on 9 May 2000 20:52:47 -0400:
>: >: Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
>: >: Rep. Charles Canady (R-FL), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), Rep.
>: >: Thomas Petri (R-WI), Rep. Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Rep. Mark Souder
>: >: (R-IN), Rep. Charles Stenholm (D-TX).
>: >
>: >For example these guys. All Republican, by the looks of things (I
>: >*wonder* why :) ).
>:
>: Whereas *I* wonder why you think that both "R" and "D" stand
>: for "Republican". Hint: "Rep" means "Representative" (as
>: opposed to "Sen" for "Senator" - the other house).
>
>Come on... That's an honest mistake by someone not native to the
>US :).
Yes, it would be; my only problem was with your instant
assessment of a moronic action by a group of Luddite
congresscritters as being somehow "obviously" Republican,
which smacks of a sort of political bigotry (and no, I'm
*not* calling you a bigot) by someone who is obviously not
well-informed on the details of US politics.
> I can't help it that 'Rep' are the first three letters of
>both Republican and Representative! (Republicans are portretted
>as quite right-winged over here in Holland---low taxes, high
>moral standards, little government interference, the works) so
>it was a sort of Pavlov reaction to associate this get-together
>with Republican. Perhaps the press is overdoing it.
I don't think there's any "perhaps" about it; there
certainly isn't here, where polls of members of the press
have shown that 90%+ self-identify as "liberal".
>
>OTOH, I am told that an outsider will have a tough time telling
>the difference between Democrat and Republican, so...
Well, yeah; I've heard it stated that to most Europeans,
*all* of US politics is right-wing.
Herb Huston
So when do you plan to retract your false assertion that Charles Darwin
claimed that black people were more closely related to gorillas than white people?
--
-- Herb Huston
-- hus...@radix.net
-- http://www.radix.net/~huston
Elmer Bataitis
> Creationists are well known for denying that
> God is the creator, and looking instead to animals as the original
> source of their human existance.
Creationists are well known for continually denying God's creative
power. They'll deny what is written in their own book (...let the earth
bring forth...) and then they'll try to deny reality when it conflicts
with their personal interpretation of that book.
Herb Huston
acker james <jac...@umbc8.umbc.edu> wrote:
}Herb Huston <hus...@radix.net> wrote:
}: }WASHINGTON, May 8 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Discovery Institute will
}: }bring top scientists and scholars to Washington D.C. to brief
}: }Congressional Representatives and Senators and their staffs on the
}: }scientific evidence of intelligent design and its implications for
}: }public policy and education, Wednesday, May 10, in the U.S. Capitol
}: }Building and the Rayburn Office Building.
}: }Congressional co-hosts include: Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD),
}
}: against Roscoe in November, just as I did in 1992, 1994, 1996, and 1998.
}
} I didn't think you lived in Roscum's district, Herb.
The last redistricting marooned me in the extreme southeastern end of his
district.
} I tried
}to help campaign against him in 1998 (because western Howard is in his
}district), but I was informed that most of the area he represents is
}western Maryland, which is actually a different *country* than eastern
}Maryland. ;-)
And each is quite strange compared to central Maryland. (For you
non-Marylanders: we have a wide variety of geography for a small state.)
}
} Actually not, of course, but it has an entirely different
}climate. People in western Maryland keep snowmobiles in their backyards.
The only snow I saw during the winter of 1997-98 was the snowstorm that
struck just as I crossed the WV-MD line on I-68 eastbound on December 31,
1997.
American Patriot
nyli...@frontiernet.net wrote:
> American Patriot wrote:
>
> > I am aware of YEC astronomers and archaeologists that are credits to
> > their profession.
>
> Great. I'd like to know more. Care to name them?
Because you don't believe they exist, or because you desire to ridicule
them and claim they do not have degrees, or just to keep me busy and
out of your hair for a while?
After all - I have posted excerpts from interviews with YEC scientists
in LOTS of different fields here to this group in the past years; did
you miss them all? Every issue of 'Creation Ex-Nihilo' usually has at
least one such interview, and that's just one of dozens of creation
publications that are science oriented.
The most irritating claim of OEE's is that ALL scientists are OEE, and
they make this claim knowing full well that it is false.
>
> **********************************************************
> Elmer Bataitis “Hot dog! Smooch city here I come!”
> Planetech Services -Hobbes
> 716-442-2884
> **********************************************************
>
>
--
Herb Huston
American Patriot <ttra...@my-deja.com> wrote:
}In article <391A22...@frontiernet.net>,
} nyli...@frontiernet.net wrote:
}> American Patriot wrote:
}> > I am aware of YEC astronomers and archaeologists that are credits to
}> > their profession.
}>
}> Great. I'd like to know more. Care to name them?
}
}Because you don't believe they exist, or because you desire to ridicule
}them and claim they do not have degrees, or just to keep me busy and
}out of your hair for a while?
}
}After all - I have posted excerpts from interviews with YEC scientists
}in LOTS of different fields here to this group in the past years; did
}you miss them all? Every issue of 'Creation Ex-Nihilo' usually has at
}least one such interview, and that's just one of dozens of creation
}publications that are science oriented.
}
}The most irritating claim of OEE's is that ALL scientists are OEE, and
}they make this claim knowing full well that it is false.
Translation from Creatiospeak to English: "I am intellectually inadequate
to the task of naming any YEC astronomers or archeologists who are credits
to their profession. You may therefore conclude that there aren't any."
American Patriot
nyli...@frontiernet.net wrote:
> American Patriot wrote:
>
> > I am aware of YEC astronomers and archaeologists that are credits to
> > their profession.
>
> Great. I'd like to know more. Care to name them?
>
> Elmer Bataitis “Hot dog! Smooch city here I come!”
> Planetech Services -Hobbes
> 716-442-2884
> **********************************************************
>
>
Just on the off chance that it was a sincere request, I spent a few
minutes with a search engine (copernic) and came up with:
Faulkner, Danny R. - Associate Professor of Astronomy
B.S., Bob Jones University, Greenville, SC, 1976
M.S., Clemson University, Clemson, SC, 1979
M.A., Indiana University, Bloomington, IN, 1983
Ph.D., Indiana University, Bloomington, IN, 1989
And there is a pretty impressive list at:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/bios/default.asp
Shaloam
AmPat
Elmer Bataitis
> In article <391A22...@frontiernet.net>,
> nyli...@frontiernet.net wrote:
> > American Patriot wrote:
> > > I am aware of YEC astronomers and archaeologists that are credits to
> > > their profession.
> > Great. I'd like to know more. Care to name them?
> Because you don't believe they exist, or because you desire to ridicule
> them and claim they do not have degrees, or just to keep me busy and
> out of your hair for a while?
Maybe because I don't believe all that many exist? What percentage of
astronomers and archeologists are YEC's? Do they have degrees from
accredited institutions? Can you explain some of their latest
peer-reviewed scientific findings?
> After all - I have posted excerpts from interviews with YEC scientists
> in LOTS of different fields here to this group in the past years; did
> you miss them all? Every issue of 'Creation Ex-Nihilo' usually has at
> least one such interview, and that's just one of dozens of creation
> publications that are science oriented.
Most of the PhD's I have seen in CEN are not writing in their fields and
if they are writing in their field they are not PhD's. But that's only
*my* observation from skimming some CEN's. Please feel free to enlighten
me on exceptions to this.
> The most irritating claim of OEE's is that ALL scientists are OEE, and
> they make this claim knowing full well that it is false.
We know all about irritating claims. Maybe we can say that since
creationists often claim that 1/1X110^50 is equal to zero, and that
since YEC scientists constitute such a minscule percentage of
scientists, that they are then essentially equal to zero. So, in effect,
for sufficiently small numbers of YEC's, all scientists *are* OEE's ;-)
Jamie Schrumpf
hus...@Radix.Net (Herb Huston) wrote:
> In article <8famuu$s9a$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Jamie Schrumpf <jsch...@my-deja.com> wrote:
[snip]
> }Wow, Herb, I didn't realize we were such close neighbors. I, too,
have
> }been trying to vote Bartlett out of office for that long. I'm not
sure
> }what he's done for the people of our district to get re-elected so
> }regularly, except for his virulent anti-Clintonism. IIRC, Bartlett's
> }big break was his expose of the Clinton aides that took a helicopter
> }ride from the White House out to Holly Hills Country Club back in
1992.
>
> Bush was president in 1992.
>
Yep, yer right. Clinton was elected in 1992; must have been in '93.
> }Since then, he's sponsored such efforts as defending the soldier who
> }didn't want to wear the United Nations helmet and insignia and the
> }anti-Playboy-at-the-base-exchange movement, all of vital interest to
the
> }people of our district.
>
> My fondest memories of Roscoe are his statement that folks with Asian
> surnames weren't "real Americans" and his being cited by the county
health
> department for leaving sheep carcasses to rot on his farm.
>
> I live close enough to the border of the Sixth District that Census
2000
> may come to my rescue; it was the 1990 Census that had moved me from
the
> Fourth District.
>
Keep your fingers crossed. I don't think I can hope for that
particular rescue.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jamie Schrumpf
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson
Matt Silberstein
from Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off>:
|On 9 May 2000 21:22:35 -0400, the following appeared in
|talk.origins, posted by chri...@netcom.com (Christopher A.
|Lee):
[snip]
|>The Europeans are very concerned about the actions of
|>the government of the only remaining superpower.
|
|I would be as well, given the actions of the head of the
|Administrative branch over the past 7 years.
Do you think that the U.S. support, under previous administrations,
for genocide in Central America made them feel better? Or, perhaps,
going back a bit, starting a new war in Cambodia while not telling the
U.S. population?
--
Matt Silberstein (Honorary Radical Lesbian)
The beast in me
is caged by frail and fragile bars
Restless by day
and by night rants and rages at the stars
God help the beast in me
N Lowe, but listen to the J. Cash version (American Recordings)
Matt Silberstein
hus...@Radix.Net (Herb Huston):
[snip]
|And each is quite strange compared to central Maryland. (For you
|non-Marylanders: we have a wide variety of geography for a small state.)
Take a look at the weather in San Francisco*, a rather small city. The
weather is bad in the Sunset and really too hot in the Mission. Upper
Height is not bad, but Lower Height gets the wind through the park. I
am serious, it has more micro-climates than you can shake a stick at,
if that is your idea of a good time.
[snip]
*Why don't blonds in SF wear mini-skirts?
Because their balls would show.
wf...@ptd.net
wrote:
>In article <8fbq2s$ehmk$1...@news.umbc.edu>,
> acker james <jac...@umbc8.umbc.edu> wrote:
>
>
>> that this whole "religion of evolution" ploy is a
>> propaganda piece promulgated by right-wing lawyers and their co-
>conspirators?
>
>Not at all. I've known evolution was a religion for years; so does
>anyone else who has managed to get de-programmed from it.
of course since most christians and all scientists accept evolution,
you're saying we're ALL brainwashed, as opposed to you cult
fundamentalists??
when has creationism ever told us how it works? answer: never.
My family
>Dr., for instance; says it requires a much greater leap of faith to
>accept that all of this 'just happened on it's own' than it takes to
>accept a creator. And yes, Mr. Christian, he is a real medical Dr. -
>medical degree and everyting.
that is meaningless rhetoric. why doesnt your doctor tell us how
creationism works? if he did he'd be the 1st creationist to do so.
>
>> Philip Johnson wants to get religion back INTO the science classroom
>> by means of this end run.
>
>We are LONG overdue to have some balance returned to the classroom,
yeah i agree. burn the constitution and replace it with the bible.
and
>remove the teaching of evolution as a FACT, and the ONLY POSSIBLE
>explaination for the existance of all life on this earth. That, sir is
>NOT science, but a statement of FAITH ALONE.
in your cult fundamentalist beliefs. why not let the astrologers in
too?
>
>> As a Christian it hurts me when I see
>> Johnson making statements that imply dishonest conspiracy and
>collusion
>> among scientists.
>
>I honestly don't know much about Johnson, but I do know of dishonest
>conspiracy and collusion among scientists. Every creation scientist I
>have ever read is aware of it as well.
yeah. both of 'em. amazing, aint it, they are coincidentally members
of the american religious cult known as fundamentalism...
>
>> As a scientist it hurts me to see the distortions
>> he puts forth as examples to support his misguided thesis.
>> If we didn't teach evolution, why would scientists be so
>> encouraged by the fact that the entire sequence of human chromosome
>> 21 has been mapped?
>
>As usual - the OEE has just done the BIG DEFINITION SWITCH again; we
>now are not discussing evolution as ORIGINS of all life from original
>single celled life, but we are now discussing the FACT of evolution, or
>adaptation, which ALL creationists agree with, and WANT TAUGHT in
>school.
since creationists have no explanation for how creationism works,
they're forced to admit evolution happens. why it doesnt happen all
the time is another question they leave unanswered...
>
>I speak the truth, popular or not. You sell the truth to be accepted
>in a group that would not urinate on you if you were on fire. Shame on
>you. Do you think claims like you make here actually please the Lord
>Jesus Christ? Do you think about Him at all? Do you even believe in
>Him, or has your acceptance of naturalism replaced him completely in
>your heart, Mr. 'good Christian'?
since naturalism doesnt exist in science as ampat uses it, his
rhetoric is a desperate attempt to conceal the fact creationism is an
answer in search of a question.
>
wf...@ptd.net
wrote:
>In article <39197779...@po.cwru.edu>,
> "Rebecca M. Stanek" <rm...@po.cwru.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course, I am in astronomy, and my brother plans on a career in
>> archaeology, so I don't suppose AmPat would approve, since neither
>endeavor
>> is Biblically based, or even Biblically sound.
>
>Any activity can become ungodly, if sufficient effort is placed in that
>direction.
>
>I am aware of YEC astronomers and archaeologists that are credits to
>their profession.
im not. not one has published any works supporting such a position in
any scientific journal. YEC astronomers simply dont exist.
>
>Now - who taught you that these two fields were not Biblically sound?
>Whoever that was, distance yourself from them; they are a liar, who is
>attempting to either force you to change your field to remain
>Christian, or to leave Christianity to pursue your field. Neither is
>at all necessary.
>
>And above all -
>Question authority!
says the guy who arbitrary and at random decided the bible is
literally true, based on the authority of his preacher...
another in a series of creationist contradictions.
Elmer Bataitis
> In article <391A22...@frontiernet.net>,
> nyli...@frontiernet.net wrote:
> > American Patriot wrote:
> > > I am aware of YEC astronomers and archaeologists that are credits to
> > > their profession.
> > Great. I'd like to know more. Care to name them?
> Faulkner, Danny R. - Associate Professor of Astronomy
> B.S., Bob Jones University, Greenville, SC, 1976
> M.S., Clemson University, Clemson, SC, 1979
> M.A., Indiana University, Bloomington, IN, 1983
> Ph.D., Indiana University, Bloomington, IN, 1989
> And there is a pretty impressive list at:
> http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/bios/default.asp
I have copied the list and will spend some time to find out who these
people are, what their degrees are in and whether or not they really
*are* YEC's.
twe...@my-deja.com
American Patriot <ttra...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <8fbq2s$ehmk$1...@news.umbc.edu>,
> acker james <jac...@umbc8.umbc.edu> wrote:
> > American Patriot <ttra...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > : In article <38B84A01...@indiana.edu>,
> > : Henry Barwood <hbar...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> >
> > : I'll be so happy when they quit mandating the teaching of the
> religion
> > : of evolution in the public system. Now we have a full generation
> > : coming into power, all of which were taught this crap. We
therefore
> > : have a good chance of getting rid of it again.
> >
> > It's this kind of mindless idiocy that makes good Christians
> > shake their heads in dismay.
>
> You being a 'good Christian', I can tell.
A great deal better Christian than you have ever shown.
>
> > You do realize (actually I doubt that
> > you do, since normal thought processes don't seem to be taking place
> > in your brain)
>
> More proof of your being a 'good Christian'.
Just as much as your windbaggery.
>
> > that this whole "religion of evolution" ploy is a
> > propaganda piece promulgated by right-wing lawyers and their co-
> conspirators?
>
> Not at all. I've known evolution was a religion for years; so does
> anyone else who has managed to get de-programmed from it.
IOW "anyone who has a religious objection to science"
>My family
> Dr., for instance; says it requires a much greater leap of faith to
> accept that all of this 'just happened on it's own' than it takes to
> accept a creator. And yes, Mr. Christian, he is a real medical Dr. -
> medical degree and everyting.
So? I know Dentists who are convinced of UFO's exist and other
professional people who think Bigfoot is real. Tell me, does your Doc
subcribe to Germ theory? Does he beleive in viruses, even though he
can't "observe" them directly? Does he invoke miracles to cure disease
instead of antibiotics? In short, does he reject ALL science, or just
the parts that he doesn't like?
>
> > Philip Johnson wants to get religion back INTO the science classroom
> > by means of this end run.
>
> We are LONG overdue to have some balance returned to the classroom,
and
> remove the teaching of evolution as a FACT, and the ONLY POSSIBLE
> explaination for the existance of all life on this earth. That, sir
is
> NOT science, but a statement of FAITH ALONE.
Terry, you obviously don't grasp the subtle distinction here.
Evolution is not the ONLY POSSIBLE explanation, it is the only
explanation THAT FITS THE EVIDENCE!!!!! There are plenty of
explanations for how the present diversity of life came to be as we see
it, but the only explanation that is consistent with observations is
evolution. As for "balance in the classrooms", talk to the framers
of the Consistution, they were the ones who decided that the government
was not to intefere with religion.
>
> > As a Christian it hurts me when I see
> > Johnson making statements that imply dishonest conspiracy and
> collusion
> > among scientists.
>
> I honestly don't know much about Johnson, but I do know of dishonest
> conspiracy and collusion among scientists.
Where? Where is your evidence for any conspiracy or collusion among
scientists??
>Every creation scientist I
> have ever read is aware of it as well.
That is because your "Creation Scientists" are the liars. Open your
eyes man! Your weak claims that scientists have destroyed evidence for
creation, is the same as claiming the dog ate your homework. The
Creationists have published NOTHING of scientific value, and have
consistently avoided exposing their work to peer review. Why? Because
they have nothing to offer.
>
> > As a scientist it hurts me to see the distortions
> > he puts forth as examples to support his misguided thesis.
> > If we didn't teach evolution, why would scientists be so
> > encouraged by the fact that the entire sequence of human chromosome
> > 21 has been mapped?
>
> As usual - the OEE has just done the BIG DEFINITION SWITCH again; we
> now are not discussing evolution as ORIGINS of all life from original
> single celled life,
As you have been advised over and over, the origin of life is
abiogenesis, not evolution. You keep trying to equate evolution with
anything that contradicts Genesis. Do you do it deliberately?
>but we are now discussing the FACT of evolution, or
> adaptation, which ALL creationists agree with, and WANT TAUGHT in
> school.
Not all creationists agree with adapation. Some flatly deny that any
evolution is possible. Others, faced with the overwhelming evidence,
admit that evolution is possible, just not "too much" evolution. They
never give any mechanims for Creation, and confine their arguements to
attacks on genuine science. You have just said evolution is a fact.
Why do you think that evolution is not possible to account for the
present diversity of life??
>
> > Think about that for a second, if that's
> > possible.
>
> More evidence of the 'good Christian'.
As I have said before, he seems a much better Christian than you are,
or will ever be.
>
> > Do you even know the significance of mapping chromosome
> > 21? If you want help, read this:
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/05/08/chromo.21/index.html
> >
> > That's what comes of teaching the "religion of evolution
> > in public schools", AP. Advances that may help eliminated dread
> > diseases and mental retardation. But no, you'd like to encourage
> > mental retardation by taking the teaching of basic science out of
> > the schools, encouraging ignorance and closed-mindedness.
>
> An absolute, complete, and intentional lie. Nice, Mr 'good
> christian'.
Terry, you are calling the kettle black here. Remember, the people who
read this group are aware of your disregard for the truth, and your
propensity for disregarding the facts to make a good story.
>How can you make such completely false statements?
The statement is not false. You are encouraging taking a major portion
of science out of the classrooms because your faith is so weak it
cannot stand a challenge.
Oh - I
> forgot - you're an evolutionist first, and a Christian when it's
> convenient.
>
> >
> > It's hard for me to believe that you're a pastor. All you
> > sound like is a windbag.
>
> I speak the truth, popular or not.
No, you don't, You speak nonsense, and personal opinion based on
nothing but bluster and ignorance. You wouldn't know truth if it bit
you on the butt.
> You sell the truth to be accepted
> in a group that would not urinate on you if you were on fire. Shame
>on you.
Oh can it, your group of Creationists are no moral paragons. Don't get
on the high horse. Shame on you for giving up your God given intellect
to follow the folly of Creationism.
>Do you think claims like you make here actually please the Lord
> Jesus Christ?
Is teaching children a comforting lie better than teaching a
uncomforatable truth? What does Christ think of your promoting
Creationist lies?
> Do you think about Him at all? Do you even believe in
> Him, or has your acceptance of naturalism replaced him completely in
> your heart, Mr. 'good Christian'?
Terry, here you show your self not only to be a liar but a hipocrite.
Naturalism is what we all accept when we turn on a switch and expect
the light to come on. Even your own creationists family doctor accepts
naturalism when he perscribes an antibiotic, or gives a vaccination.
When you type on your computer you are accepting the naturalist belief
that electrons will follow consistent natural laws. This does not mean
we have to give up our faith.
Is your faith really so weak that you cannot accept the evidence
contained in the earth itself? Do you really trust a book written my
men over the revalations in the rocks, trees, animals, and plants in
God's world? Do you really think you are doing God's will do deny the
facts of his creation???
Dana J. Tweedy
sarah clark
American Patriot wrote:
> In article <8fbq2s$ehmk$1...@news.umbc.edu>,
> acker james <jac...@umbc8.umbc.edu> wrote:
> I honestly don't know much about Johnson, but I do know of dishonest
> conspiracy and collusion among scientists. Every creation scientist I
> have ever read is aware of it as well.
prove it.
<snip>
> > It's hard for me to believe that you're a pastor. All you
> > sound like is a windbag.
>
> I speak the truth, popular or not. You sell the truth to be accepted
> in a group that would not urinate on you if you were on fire. Shame on
> you. Do you think claims like you make here actually please the Lord
> Jesus Christ? Do you think about Him at all? Do you even believe in
> Him, or has your acceptance of naturalism replaced him completely in
> your heart, Mr. 'good Christian'?
this is the second time in a month i have seen christians
dump on acker. note, i don't see any evilutionists dump
on him for being a christian. and he is. you evidently haven't
followed the discussions he has been involved in, terry.
this comment is uncalled for.
<snip>
twe...@my-deja.com
American Patriot <ttra...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <391A22...@frontiernet.net>,
> nyli...@frontiernet.net wrote:
> > American Patriot wrote:
> >
> > > I am aware of YEC astronomers and archaeologists that are credits
to
> > > their profession.
> >
> > Great. I'd like to know more. Care to name them?
>
ridicule
> them and claim they do not have degrees, or just to keep me busy and
> out of your hair for a while?
Could it be because you don't acutally know any? Because we can look up
their resumes and find the diploma mills, and fake credentials??
>
> After all - I have posted excerpts from interviews with YEC scientists
> in LOTS of different fields here to this group in the past years; did
> you miss them all? Every issue of 'Creation Ex-Nihilo' usually has at
> least one such interview, and that's just one of dozens of creation
> publications that are science oriented.
Anyone can publish a magazine and call it "science oriented". The
proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Creation Ex-Nihilo is not
recognized as a legitimate scientific journal by any legitimate
scientific body.
Your "scientists" are required to sign a pledge not to present any
evidence that contradicts the bible. How is that being scientific?
>
> The most irritating claim of OEE's is that ALL scientists are OEE, and
> they make this claim knowing full well that it is false.
Then you won't have any trouble naming a few Creationists who have
published information on Creation in any legitimate scientific
journal. And, no Ex Nihlo, and CRSQ are not legitimate scientific
journals. And before you cry "censorship", you do realize that some
creation scientists have published on other topics. Not a peep on
Creation tho.
wf...@ptd.net
<nyli...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>American Patriot wrote:
>
>> I am aware of YEC astronomers and archaeologists that are credits to
>> their profession.
>
>Great. I'd like to know more. Care to name them?
>
hell, let him lump 'em in with positrons and gluons. he says they DONT
exist...
i think ampat lives in a mirror world...to him reality is false and
false is reality...