Origin of the term BDSM?
Philip_the_Foole
Here's the best I could come up with:
[From Laura Antoniou's "Marketplace" Yahoo group.]
My understanding is that the term BDSM goes back to at least 1991, when
it was used on the Usenet newsgroup Laura mentions, alt.sex.bondage
(which eventually was destroyed by spammers, and evolved into
soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm. There were some folks who objected to the
term "SM," since they felt little in common with the Marquis de Sade
(from whose name the word sadism derives), or with Baron Leopold van
Sacher-Masoch (masochism.)
I believe that it was an effort to reduce the endless
"vendettas-of-the-week" by creating an umbrella term that the usual gang
of idiots could agree on. Naturally, the attempt did not work, but the
term caught on. BDSM was intended to be a "portmanteau" combination of
"BD / DS / SM." (Bondage & Discipline, Dominance & Submission, Sadism &
Masochism.")
A similar, humorous effort was the acronym "WIITWD" ("What it is that we
do.") Another sarcastic variation was "BDSLMNOP" ("Like, whatever, dude.")
I don't recall having seen a definitive statement on who coined the
term. If I had to place a bet, I'd lean toward Harry Ugol or STella.
Professor Spectrum, the Archivist for the Kung Foole Temple, will
probably know, but he's out of town at the moment.
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
The Archives of the Kung Foole Temple contain all knowledge worth
knowing (and even more not worth knowing).
- Ancient Kung Foole Proverb by Spectrum
Patti Beadles
Philip_the_Foole <Fo...@Icehouse.net> wrote:
>Any of our historians have a definitive answer on this?
Yes, indeed, I know all about it.
The term BDSM was originally coined in a 16th century Olde Guarde
European House of Domination by Lord Master Poobah Sir, Royale Duke
of the Manor of Gore. It has been passed down through the
generations in a secret but highly imrpessive ritual that only true
masters and slaves of the Manor of Gore have been privilieged to
witness.
Unfortunately, one of our ranks was showing off in a leather bar one
night and revealed the secret that we have so carefully guarded all
these years. May he rest in peace.
-Patti
--
Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA |
pattib~pattib.org |
http://www.pattib.org/ | MCSE: technology's version of
Check out www.tribe.net ! | an ambulance chaser.
tesseract
NYC. They are the oldest group in the USA into that sort of kink. Also
try 'National Leather Alliance.'
Brian
I was around in 93 ish and I think bdsm was in use then, but not the what it
is that we do one.
Who else do I recall used the term then, a lady called Lauren, a guy called
Freep and his lady jaybird? All used the term, so 91 could be about right.
Brian
--
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Any opinions expressed above, are just that, opinions.
please add salt to taste.
Only my Eyes are blind....
switc...@blueyonder.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________________
"Philip_the_Foole" <Fo...@Icehouse.net> wrote in message
news:8t15e.37213$1H3....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
Philip_the_Foole
> In article <8t15e.37213$1H3....@tornado.texas.rr.com>,
> Philip_the_Foole <Fo...@Icehouse.net> wrote:
>
>>Any of our historians have a definitive answer on this?
>
>
> Yes, indeed, I know all about it.
>
> The term BDSM was originally coined in a 16th century Olde Guarde
> European House of Domination by Lord Master Poobah Sir, Royale Duke
> of the Manor of Gore. It has been passed down through the
> generations in a secret but highly imrpessive ritual that only true
> masters and slaves of the Manor of Gore have been privilieged to
> witness.
>
> Unfortunately, one of our ranks was showing off in a leather bar one
> night and revealed the secret that we have so carefully guarded all
> these years. May he rest in peace.
>
> -Patti
Well yes, of course, Patti. Lord Master Poobah Sir is the One who
*really* invented the term. That goes without saying.
What I was wondering is who invented our "official cover story."
Philip_the_Foole
Thanks for the suggestion, tesseract. I am familiar with TES and the
NLA, but I don't think the origin of the term BDSM is with either of
those sources. I belonged to a gay bike club "back in the day" and I
visited TES in New York City shortly after it was founded.
No one in either group called what they did "BDSM," at least to the best
of my recollection. I am fairly confident that term originated in
alt.sex.bondage, where several of us from SSB used to hang out before it
was destroyed by the spammers.
Philip_the_Foole
> Stella, now there is a name from the past.
>
> I was around in 93 ish and I think bdsm was in use then, but not the what it
> is that we do one.
>
> Who else do I recall used the term then, a lady called Lauren, a guy called
> Freep and his lady jaybird? All used the term, so 91 could be about right.
>
> Brian
Could someone please pin a note with this question to the bulletin board
at the Secret Headquarters of the Caba... [NO CARRIER SIGNAL]
Philip_the_Foole
> http://www.datenschlag.org/papiertiger/frameindex.html
Thanks, Markus! 1991 on alt.sex.bondage is also the earliest reference
to the term BDSM that I could find on Google.
Of course, Master Rootie-tootie of the House of Pancakes (trademark
Laura Antoniou) probably used it hundreds of years earlier.
SuzanneM
: do.") Another sarcastic variation was "BDSLMNOP" ("Like, whatever, dude.")
Actually, as I remember it was BDSMNLOP.
dag
Suzanne
--
toy at the end of a chain -- www.xs4all.nl/~tateoac
SuzanneM
: My understanding is that the term BDSM goes back to at least 1991, when
When I first read alt.sex.bondage in early '94 the term 'BDSM' was in general use, 'WIITWD' being
considerd a more politically correct term. I wouldn't be surprised if BDSM was older than '91.
: it was used on the Usenet newsgroup Laura mentions, alt.sex.bondage
: (which eventually was destroyed by spammers, and evolved into
: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm.
It didn't simply 'evolve'. For months there were discussions about the name, like should it have
the word s*x in it, should be part of the soc hierarchy, some said they'd leave if the group were
to be moderated, some would leave if it werent', it should have 'bdsm' in the name, but also
'bondage' (referring to a.s.b.), if it shouldn't have s*x in it in what hierarchy would it be
('subcultere' hadn't been invented so it was created especially for us). Then it turned out that
two groups were working on charters independently, when these groups joined they couldn't get to an
agreeement. Finally, it took ages to convince the usenet people that the group was worth being
created. When finally it was, a group a.s.b. readers refused to join ssbb.
So, yeah, a.s.b. evolved into s.s.b-b. A.s.b. didn't stop, so then we had two groups.
Originally, a.s.b. wasn't started by bdsm folks, it was started as a joke. That is, that's what
they told me. But ^^^Spectrum^^^ should know, as he knows all about wiitwd.
dag
Suzanne M
SilverOz
Brian <Switc...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Stella, now there is a name from the past.
>
> I was around in 93 ish and I think bdsm was in use then, but not the what it
> is that we do one.
>
> Who else do I recall used the term then, a lady called Lauren, a guy called
> Freep and his lady jaybird? All used the term, so 91 could be about right.
I think I came in around 91 or 92 and it was in use then, although not
as universally as now.
SilverOz
SilverOz
SuzanneM <tat...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Philip_the_Foole <Fo...@icehouse.net> wrote:
>
>
>: My understanding is that the term BDSM goes back to at least 1991, when
>
> When I first read alt.sex.bondage in early '94 the term 'BDSM' was in general use, 'WIITWD' being
> considerd a more politically correct term. I wouldn't be surprised if BDSM was older than '91.
>
I recall WIITWD being coined on a.s.b but damned if I can recall by who.
SilverOz
Patti Beadles
Philip_the_Foole <Fo...@Icehouse.net> wrote:
>What I was wondering is who invented our "official cover story."
I'm pretty sure that the dude who talked in a bar transmitted it to
Compuserve's HSX-200 forum... my memory is fuzzy, but I think
section 19 was the kinky section. It was originally written there
as DsBDSM, but got shortened when the redundancy was spotted, or
somesuch.
-P
--
Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA |
pattib~pattib.org |
http://www.pattib.org/ | You're sweet...
Check out www.tribe.net ! | in an evil sort of way.
lpu...@hotmail.com
from an obscure referrence in a beat generation poem by Allen Ginzberg
where bdsm meant the DeKalb Street station in Brooklyn on the New York
City subway. At one time the B, D, S and M subway lines converged
there. Today an additonal three of four lines do too. The S has been
re-routed and no longer stops there.
My knowledge of Brooklyn is mostly antidotal and men are prone to lie
on me, so I hope someone can google up the actual poem
Love,
Lynn
http://lynn.mylovethng.com
Vorticity Kappa
"Philip_the_Foole" <Fo...@Icehouse.net> wrote in message
Arr. Takes me back it do. In those pre-Montserrat days, we even had to heat
our own branding irons. No lava running down the halls then, no sirree. Kids
nowadays!
Um.. it *is* ok to mention that um, island place, isn't it?
brb, door
404
Philip_the_Foole
> It didn't simply 'evolve'. For months there were discussions about the name, like should it have
> the word s*x in it, should be part of the soc hierarchy, some said they'd leave if the group were
> to be moderated, some would leave if it werent', it should have 'bdsm' in the name, but also
> 'bondage' (referring to a.s.b.), if it shouldn't have s*x in it in what hierarchy would it be
> ('subcultere' hadn't been invented so it was created especially for us). Then it turned out that
> two groups were working on charters independently, when these groups joined they couldn't get to an
> agreeement. Finally, it took ages to convince the usenet people that the group was worth being
> created. When finally it was, a group a.s.b. readers refused to join ssbb.
> So, yeah, a.s.b. evolved into s.s.b-b. A.s.b. didn't stop, so then we had two groups.
Well, sure, if you want to get *technical* about it.
But "evolved" does condense the hell out of the situation.
Philip_the_Foole
> My knowledge of Brooklyn is mostly antidotal and men are prone to lie
> on me, so I hope someone can google up the actual poem
*rubbing eyes*
I scarcely know where to begin.
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
Men are prone to lie on me.
- Ancient Kung Foole Proverb by Lynn Public
Thorney
>My knowledge of Brooklyn is mostly antidotal and men are prone to lie
>on me, so I hope someone can google up the actual poem
>
>
>
Trying to decide if Brooklyn should be the subject of antidotes,
rather than anecdotes, risks making the thread political.
--
Thorney
lpu...@hotmail.com
Thanks ever so much for pointing it out!
Love,
Lynn
ArsElle
<8t15e.37213$1H3....@tornado.texas.rr.com>:
>
>Any of our historians have a definitive answer on this?
<ka-snip>
>I don't recall having seen a definitive statement on who coined the
>term. If I had to place a bet, I'd lean toward Harry Ugol or STella.
Strangely enough, I had dinner with STella tonight so I asked. Don't place that
bet. ;-) STella said that neither of them was responsible for coining "BDSM".
STella is sure sie knows who did coin it, but, being uncertain as to that
person's public nomen, is not willing to divulge that information.
The pizza, BTW, was as delicious as the company.
>Your Humble Jester,
>
>Philip the Foole
>
>The Archives of the Kung Foole Temple contain all knowledge worth
>knowing (and even more not worth knowing).
>- Ancient Kung Foole Proverb by Spectrum
Oh good. Then where *are* the Snowden's of yesteryear?
--
-R's L
Take out MySister to reply in email
tesseract
it in kink ads in the 'Village Voice' in the late '60s.
Golden California Girls
PTF:
I have vague memories of having seen it in old House of Milan publications
dating from the late 70's. Now I could be wrong, but clearly a trip to the
world's foremost porno library at the Vatican is called for.
I'm sure the chocolate reserves in Montserrat will cover the expense.
Philip_the_Foole
> PTF:
>
> I have vague memories of having seen it in old House of Milan publications
> dating from the late 70's. Now I could be wrong, but clearly a trip to the
> world's foremost porno library at the Vatican is called for.
>
> I'm sure the chocolate reserves in Montserrat will cover the expense.
No need to trouble the Vatican librarian. I happen to have a rather
extensive collection of vintage bondage magazines.
You might be a bondage fetishist if ...
You look at a photo of a naked, tied-up woman, and your primary focus is
on the rope work.
I can't recall ever seeing the term "BDSM" prior to the alt.sex.bondage
terminiology debates around 1991. Still, strictly in cause of advancing
science, I will do some browsing through the archives.
Nick
Philip_the_Foole
> Your sacrifice in the name of research is to be admired.
Well, this sort of literary research *is* very time-consuming,
particularly since I can seldom manage to read through an entire bondage
magazine without having to stop and er, take a nap.
But you folks know how gosh-darned dedicated I am to the cause of BDSM
education. I don't care if this snipe hunt takes forever. I ain't
giving up!
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
Foole (to MiniFruitBat, sneaking up from behind): "Boy, you are about
as stealthy as a not-very-stealthy herd of water buffalo."
MiniFruitBat: "Water buffalo can be pretty stealthy."
Foole: "Oh yeah? When was the last time you saw a stealthy water buffalo?"
MiniFruitBat: "Exactly!"
Markem
<Fo...@Icehouse.net> wrote:
>But you folks know how gosh-darned dedicated I am to the cause of BDSM
>education. I don't care if this snipe hunt takes forever. I ain't
>giving up!
I have a planer that will give you some snipe, come to think of it the
Unisaw could help with that large attachment problem too.
Markem
tesseract
I have unearthed a rather interesting source out of Britain, the
ancient home of kink.
It is an 'encyclopervia' article and it crawls all over the origins of
the acronym 'BDSM."
Try: http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/encyclopervia/BDSM
The origins, with references cited, are a few sections into the
article, which is certainly worth a read in entirety.
Your humble servant (who does like to be spanked, but not beaten
(Shaken, not stirred)),
lance
aren't I a good boy?!
tesseract
I guess that you are leafing carefully on your etymological
quest through all of those dreary bondage maggys that require
so many 'naps.' I tried to save you from the tedium.
The lonliness of the long distance runner.
lance, who empathizes every chance he gets
Philip_the_Foole
Thanks, tesseract. The author of the "encyclopervia" article seems to
be very well-informed. I still don't see what I'm after though.
What I'd like to discover is a clear cite for who actually first used
the term "BDSM." The earliest cite on Google is for alt.sex.bondage in
1991, but the Google archive is incomplete, and there is no post that
I've located so far where someone actually says "Hey, here's an idea!
Let's start using the term BDSM!"
I recently learned from a source who wishes to remain anonymous, but who
I consider highly reliable, that my theory that the term might have been
created by prolific word smiths Harry Ugol or STella is not correct. I
will post more on this story as it develops.
The reason I'm interested in this is that Laura Antoniou said in her
keynote speech at South Plains Leatherfest that we can trace the origin
of the term to a usenet group rather than to an ancient European house.
Someone challenged her to produce the cite.
Now, it is fairly clear to me from browsing through my bondage magazines
and from my own recollection, having been active in both 3-D and online
perv activities for many years, that it was certainly not widely-used,
if it was ever used at all prior to ASB, but I'd like to be able to
point to something definitive.
tesseract
Watson, it is a criminal we seek! Fetish later!
tesseract
honestly do not want to pretend that I know 1/10 as much about this as
Philip the Foole or some others on here, I present a compendious
resource
which does have some info about the begingings of organized kink in
modern
times. The link, which is a jump page, is:
http://www.sexuality.org/bdsm/newkin.html
There is a lot to look at there, so the more, the merrier. Hope it
helps.
lance, bloodied but unbowed
PS: Philip the Foole, I hope we meet IRL some day. I like people who
keep
life from being dull, and who have a sense of humor and perspective.
Philip_the_Foole
> I present a compendious resource
> which does have some info about the begingings of organized kink in
> modern times. The link, which is a jump page, is:
> http://www.sexuality.org/bdsm/newkin.html
Thanks for the link, tesseract. (And thanks to all those who have sent
me private e-mail with their recollections and search suggestions.)
I'm confident that with the amount of research talent we've got around
here, someone is going to turn up who can say "The term BDSM was first
used by this person on this date in this article. Here's the original."
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you
do call for them?
- Ancient Kung Foole Proverb
(Henry IV, Part I)
Serion Ironcroft
> My understanding is that the term BDSM goes back to at least 1991, when
> it was used on the Usenet newsgroup Laura mentions, alt.sex.bondage
> (which eventually was destroyed by spammers, and evolved into
> soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm.
Wal, young'uns... [stroking long grey moustaches]
There are conflicting stories about the origin of BDSM, however, it seems
surely to have proliferated, if not actually originated, on asb in the
early 90s, quite likely in 1991. At that time, it was apparently intended
as an abbreviation for bondage, discipline, sadism, masochism. Also at
that time, dominance/submission was emerging into commonality as an
identifiable kink, so the cuteness of the BD/DS/SM combination led to the
acronym being quickly hijacked by the DSers.
I first saw the term on asb sometime in 1992 and helped introduce it in
the Compuserve human sexuality forums shortly afterward to replace the
awkward "DsBDSM" that was prevalent at the time.
Somewhere in the dark annals of my personal archives, I have copies of a
series of messages from asb and Compuserve that clarify the matter more
precisely than does my increasingly short memory. I shall endeavor to
determine where I may have stashed the CDROM.
Regards, Serion
Philip_the_Foole
> I first saw the term on asb sometime in 1992 and helped introduce it in
> the Compuserve human sexuality forums shortly afterward to replace the
> awkward "DsBDSM" that was prevalent at the time.
>
> Somewhere in the dark annals of my personal archives, I have copies of a
> series of messages from asb and Compuserve that clarify the matter more
> precisely than does my increasingly short memory. I shall endeavor to
> determine where I may have stashed the CDROM.
Thanks, Serion. I was certain that one of our venerable community
elders (old farts) would have this information.
I would be immensely grateful if you could locate the original exchange.
tesseract
>Thanks for the link, tesseract. (And thanks to all those who have
sent
>me private e-mail with their recollections and search suggestions.)
>I'm confident that with the amount of research talent we've got around
>here, someone is going to turn up who can say "The term BDSM was first
>used by this person on this date in this article. Here's the
original."
I apologise for offending by breaching posting ettiquette.
One problem in searching for the origins of 'BDSM" as a term may be
that
the world wide web doesn't go back far enough in time.
I believe that there is a good chance that it originated in the NYC Gay
Community. If so, a search of the archives of the Village Voice, The
National
Leather Alliance, the magazine Christopher Street, and The Eulenspiegel
Society
may yield a clue. Also a trip into Gopherspace, with FTP, may help, but
I am not familiar with that. Of course, many who would know much
history personally died
in the Aids epidemic, when it was called the "Gay Plague." Perhaps the
New York
Times archives, as well. I do not know if any of the sociology depts.
of the universities of New York made a study of this or not. Two more
things, dictionaries of slang, and the OED. Unless I find it stone
cold, I now bow out.
Kevin Craig
<Fo...@Icehouse.net> wrote:
> Foole (to MiniFruitBat, sneaking up from behind): "Boy, you are about
> as stealthy as a not-very-stealthy herd of water buffalo."
> MiniFruitBat: "Water buffalo can be pretty stealthy."
> Foole: "Oh yeah? When was the last time you saw a stealthy water buffalo?"
> MiniFruitBat: "Exactly!"
> - Ancient Kung Foole Proverb
Apple. Tree.
Very close proximity!
Kevin
Patti Beadles
tesseract <helix...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I apologise for offending by breaching posting ettiquette.
What etiquette have you breached? Point it out to me, and I'll give
you a proper dressing down... but only if you ask nicely.
>One problem in searching for the origins of 'BDSM" as a term may be
>that the world wide web doesn't go back far enough in time.
>I believe that there is a good chance that it originated in the NYC Gay
>Community. If so, a search of the archives of the Village Voice, The
>National Leather Alliance, the magazine Christopher Street, and
>The Eulenspiegel Society may yield a clue.
I've been participating in online kink discussions since the
mid-to-late 80s, in particular the day that Paul Traina newgrouped
alt.sex.bondage. I've also read a fair bit of the gay leather
literature (fiction and nonfiction) from the 70s forward.
My experience with gay male culture is that the term SM is the
umbrella there... that was true back in the mid-70s, when the
Leathermen's Handbook was published, and still seems to be more
or less true today.
Now, I'll grant you that I'm not a gay leatherman, never have been,
never will be (much as I wish otherwise at times.) Nonetheless, I
would be extraordinarily surprised if the term BDSM has ever really
been in serious use in the gay leather community.
-Patti
O.Y. Certainly the term BDSM existed before the web became popular,
though there might be a close race between the first usage on ASB
and the day that Tim Berners-Lee posted his first announcement of
the www to Usenet. Still, Google's Usenet archives go back well
past the birth of the web. Usenet was created in 1980, and as I
stated earlier, alt.sex.bondage has existed since 1987.
--
Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA |
pattib~pattib.org |
http://www.pattib.org/ | Friends don't let friends
Check out www.tribe.net ! | use Microsoft software.
Nick
<Fo...@Icehouse.net> wrote:
deleted
>
>The reason I'm interested in this is that Laura Antoniou said in her
>keynote speech at South Plains Leatherfest that we can trace the origin
>of the term to a usenet group rather than to an ancient European house.
> Someone challenged her to produce the cite.
more snippage
Doesn't this raise something of a paradox? If it was the ancient and
Honorable Old School House of Bondage as practiced by the true
believers would they really want to use the cover of usenet to hide
their true being?
Philip_the_Foole
[MiniFruitBat performs silent imitation of "The Scream"]
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
I carried my two-year old son on my shoulders as we walked across the
corn field, telling him the story of "Joshu's MU." I pointed to a cow
and asked him "Does that cow have the Buddha nature? Laughing in
delight, he shouted "MU! Daddy! MU!"
Philip_the_Foole
Gloria ("Different Loving") Brame tells me that she founded the SM
section of Compuserve's HSX (called "Variations II" or "Section 7 of
HSX" in 1987.)
She says that she believes the direction of travel was from
alt.sex.bondage to HSX. She recalls that the guy who brought the term
there was one of the folks she interviewed for "Different Loving." She
says the original version was "BDDSSM," but it eventually got shortened.
Serion Ironcroft
> She says that she believes the direction of travel was from
> alt.sex.bondage to HSX. She recalls that the guy who brought the term
> there was one of the folks she interviewed for "Different Loving." She
> says the original version was "BDDSSM," but it eventually got shortened.
That jibes with my recollection to a certain extent. The guy she
interviewed I think was "Frank." He owned one of the section
moderators "Lisa", who I believe may have originated the "DsBDSM"
tag. I'm pretty sure the term as it came from asb was "BDSM", though,
meaning BondageDisciplineSadismMasochism. The extra DS was added into
the middle by the Ds crowd, but somebody pointed out the extra "D" and "S"
were unnecessary. I thought that was pretty cool and along with others
started using it as "BDSM" late in 1992 or early in 1993.
I think "Frank" and "Lisa" are still active on section12.com. If anybody
here is active there, they may be able to contribute to the history.
Regards, Serion
Canis Ridiculous
-0700
<1112930603.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
>Then there is the other cover story about the origins of bdsm evolving
>from an obscure referrence in a beat generation poem by Allen Ginzberg
>where bdsm meant the DeKalb Street station in Brooklyn on the New York
>City subway. At one time the B, D, S and M subway lines converged
>there. Today an additonal three of four lines do too. The S has been
>re-routed and no longer stops there.
Currently the B, M, Q, and R stop there (and the N on weekends) and on
the same corner as the station entrance are great cheesecake and a
poster on a wall the quotes Walt Whitman.
--
Canis perro...@yahoo.com
Ridiculous
"Look at the habtual masturbator ... feel his damp and chilling hand!"
--Henry Guernsey
RFW
I was a charter member in college, and I didn't matriculate until Sept.
1988.
A quick Google search for asb articles turns up nothing before June 1989.
Since the Google archives are incomplete, this isn't definitive, but does
narrow it down.
R
"Patti Beadles" <pat...@green.rahul.net> wrote in message
news:d3db6b$pm7$1...@blue.rahul.net...
{snip}
RFW
I was a charter member in college, and I didn't matriculate until Sept.
1988.
A quick Google search for asb articles turns up nothing before June 1989.
Since the Google archives are incomplete, this isn't definitive, but does
narrow it down.
R
"Patti Beadles" <pat...@green.rahul.net> wrote in message
news:d3db6b$pm7$1...@blue.rahul.net...
{snip}
RFW
I was a charter member in college, and I didn't matriculate until Sept.
1988.
A quick Google search for asb articles turns up nothing before June 1989.
Since the Google archives are incomplete, this isn't definitive, but does
narrow it down.
R
"Patti Beadles" <pat...@green.rahul.net> wrote in message
news:d3db6b$pm7$1...@blue.rahul.net...
{snip}
Patti Beadles
>asb couldn't have existed back in 1987, but might date back as far as 1988.
You're right. I went Googling, and it was mid-to-late 88.
-Patti
--
Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA | Not just your average purple-haired
pattib~pattib.org | degenerate gambling adrenaline
http://www.pattib.org/ | junkie software geek leatherbyke
Check out www.tribe.net ! | nethead biker.
stella93
ASB was being discussed when I left the East Coast in mid-September of 1988.
When I got an account on this coast, it was in existence, approximately
October of 1988. Sorry I can't pin it down any tighter, but I can only do
what I can do.
>I was a charter member in college, and I didn't matriculate until Sept.
>1988.
Yep. You might well have gotten to the group before I did, but I truly
don't know. I remember NOTICING you and going hmmmm, but that could have
been your hundredth post and my first read, or the other way 'round. THINK
I remember you from the soc.singles pre-ASB time, possibly.
But if I'd known I was eventually gonna wanna be an asb historian, I'd have
kept many more files and been much more anal about backups....
stella93
Patti Beadles <pat...@green.rahul.net> wrote:
>You're right. I went Googling, and it was mid-to-late 1988.
Tight as I've ever been able to pin it, it didn't exist when I left the east
coast in late September of 1988, but did exist the middle of the next month
when I got reconnected on this coast.
If I'd known I was gonna wanna be an asb historian, I would have kept many
more files, and been a lot more anal about backups....
So it goes, and now, so do I!
Philip_the_Foole
It is *such* a delight to see that the Bat-signal still works.
If I ever carve a Guardian Ghod statue of an ancient hippie wise person,
the statue will look a whole lot like STella.
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
There is no Cabal.
Seth Fogarty
If this be the stella I be thinking of, we was talking about you at the
SF Munch just yesterday. Not the direct descendant, but the cousin once
removed.
--
Arav bipsum | "The same person. No difference at all. Just a
Bicameral neep-neep | different sex." -Orlando (Orlando, 1992)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
AIM: Sorrath sfogarty@[rice.edu|gmail.com|livejournal]
SuzanneM
welcome back, good to see you!
dag
Suzanne
stella93 <stel...@bolt.sonic.net> wrote:
: In article <d4dvtl$d5k$1...@blue.rahul.net>,
: Patti Beadles <pat...@green.rahul.net> wrote:
--
toy at the end of a chain -- www.xs4all.nl/~tateoac
RFW
Yup, I remember you. I was the Wonderbitch back then. But it wasn't
me on soc.singles; I don't think I ever posted there.
Best,
R
stella93 wrote:
> In article <STX9e.119$YS...@news02.roc.ny>, RFW <rut...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
{snip}
Philip_the_Foole
> I'm pretty sure Harry came up with BDSM, but it easily could have been
> STella.
>
> Google is a dangerous toy... I was googling for some other random piece
> of computer history and came across this by accident.
Hi Paul!
By way of introduction, Paul Traina is the venerable elder (old coot)
who originally newgrouped alt.sex.bondage.
My first bet would have been either Harry Ugol or STella, but this does
not seem to be the case, at least from what I've heard thus far. I've
been in contact with several of the "Mighty Men (and Women) of Old",
including STella, Laura Antoniou, Gloria Brame, and Patti Beadles. No
one seems to be able to produce a definitive answer, or to state "Yeah,
I (or "X") coined the term BDSM. There was some apparent crossing back
and forth of similar terms with the Compuserve HSX-200 forum, where it
was written DsBDSM.
STella wrote: "Tight as I've ever been able to pin it, it [BDSM] didn't
exist when I left the east coast in late September of 1988, but did
exist the middle of the next month when I got reconnected on this coast."
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
LadyGold
wrote:
>So it goes, and now, so do I!
One of my deepest regrets is that you and I never connected in person
when I visited Tanith. At least I can claim to have spoken to you on
the phone.
And now I have to wonder if anyone has heard from Tanith recently.
Last I knew she was in Florida wrangling wreptiles [sic].
Regards,
LadyGold, High Sheriff of Nettingham, OCF and PBB
Lumber Cartel Unit 2514 (tinlc)
Tanith number 34
aka Taipan's dorei
--
The soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm FAQ is available from the WWW at:
http://www.unrealities.com/adult/ssbb/faq.htm
The soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm charter is available at:
http://www.mindspring.com/~frites/charter.htm
Both can be found on the SSB Webpage, the URL of which is:
http://www.phszx81.demon.co.uk/ssb/
The "Welcome to ASB !", almost all of which applies to SSB,
can be found at:
http://www.mindspring.com/~frites/wel.htm
Kevin Craig
<ladygold.r...@planetarydefense.org> wrote:
> And now I have to wonder if anyone has heard from Tanith recently.
> Last I knew she was in Florida wrangling wreptiles [sic].
I've been waiting for her reality series, "The Surreal Iron Chef".
Kevin
Tanos
> STella wrote: "Tight as I've ever been able to pin it, it [BDSM] didn't
> exist when I left the east coast in late September of 1988, but did
> exist the middle of the next month when I got reconnected on this coast."
If you look at that quote in it's original context, it's clear that
"it" is alt.sex.bondage, not the term BDSM.
Regards,
Tanos
Philip_the_Foole
Thanks for pointing that out, Tanos. You've definitely got a plausible
interpretation of STella's reference that is different from the way I
originally read it. My understanding was that STella's "it" was
referring to the term "BDSM," since that was the subject line of the
thread, but on re-reading, the reference could very easily be to the
alt.sex.bondage newsgroup.
I'm still not 100% certain, but if I had to place a bet, I think I'd now
go with your interpretation rather than my first understanding of it.
The original thread is quoted below from Google.
I'm surprised that with all of the venerable elders (old farts) and
research talent we've got around here nobody seems to be able to say
"Yeah, I (or 'X') coined the term 'BDSM.' Here's a copy of the original
post."
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
************************
Patti Beadles Apr 11, 4:06 am show options
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: pat...@green.rahul.net (Patti Beadles) - Find messages by this author
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:06:35 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Mon,Apr 11 2005 4:06 am
Subject: Re: Origin of the term BDSM?
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original |
Report Abuse
In article <1113181817.195633.64...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
tesseract <helixbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I apologise for offending by breaching posting ettiquette.
What etiquette have you breached? Point it out to me, and I'll give
you a proper dressing down... but only if you ask nicely.
>One problem in searching for the origins of 'BDSM" as a term may be
>that the world wide web doesn't go back far enough in time.
>I believe that there is a good chance that it originated in the NYC Gay
>Community. If so, a search of the archives of the Village Voice, The
>National Leather Alliance, the magazine Christopher Street, and
>The Eulenspiegel Society may yield a clue.
I've been participating in online kink discussions since the
mid-to-late 80s, in particular the day that Paul Traina newgrouped
alt.sex.bondage. I've also read a fair bit of the gay leather
literature (fiction and nonfiction) from the 70s forward.
My experience with gay male culture is that the term SM is the
umbrella there... that was true back in the mid-70s, when the
Leathermen's Handbook was published, and still seems to be more
or less true today.
Now, I'll grant you that I'm not a gay leatherman, never have been,
never will be (much as I wish otherwise at times.) Nonetheless, I
would be extraordinarily surprised if the term BDSM has ever really
been in serious use in the gay leather community.
-Patti
O.Y. Certainly the term BDSM existed before the web became popular,
though there might be a close race between the first usage on ASB
and the day that Tim Berners-Lee posted his first announcement of
the www to Usenet. Still, Google's Usenet archives go back well
past the birth of the web. Usenet was created in 1980, and as I
stated earlier, alt.sex.bondage has existed since 1987.
--
Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA |
pattib~pattib.org |
http://www.pattib.org/ | Friends don't let friends
Check out www.tribe.net ! | use Microsoft software.
RFW Apr 21, 8:50 pm show options
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: "RFW" <rut...@frontiernet.net> - Find messages by this author
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 00:50:58 GMT
Local: Thurs,Apr 21 2005 8:50 pm
Subject: Re: Origin of the term BDSM?
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original |
Report Abuse
asb couldn't have existed back in 1987, but might date back as far as 1988.
I was a charter member in college, and I didn't matriculate until Sept.
1988.
A quick Google search for asb articles turns up nothing before June 1989.
Since the Google archives are incomplete, this isn't definitive, but does
narrow it down.
R
"Patti Beadles" <pat...@green.rahul.net> wrote in message
news:d3db6b$pm7$1...@blue.rahul.net...
{snip}
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> O.Y. Certainly the term BDSM existed before the web became popular,
> though there might be a close race between the first usage on ASB
> and the day that Tim Berners-Lee posted his first announcement of
> the www to Usenet. Still, Google's Usenet archives go back well
> past the birth of the web. Usenet was created in 1980, and as I
> stated earlier, alt.sex.bondage has existed since 1987.
Patti Beadles Apr 23, 1:16 pm show options
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: pat...@green.rahul.net (Patti Beadles) - Find messages by this author
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 17:16:37 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sat,Apr 23 2005 1:16 pm
Subject: Re: Origin of the term BDSM?
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original |
Report Abuse
stella93 Jun 2, 3:43 am show options
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: stell...@bolt.sonic.net (stella93) - Find messages by this author
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 07:43:15 GMT
Local: Thurs,Jun 2 2005 3:43 am
Subject: Re: Origin of the term BDSM?
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse
In article <d4dvtl$d5...@blue.rahul.net>,
Patti Beadles <pat...@green.rahul.net> wrote:
>You're right. I went Googling, and it was mid-to-late 1988.
Tight as I've ever been able to pin it, it didn't exist when I left the east
coast in late September of 1988, but did exist the middle of the next month
when I got reconnected on this coast.
If I'd known I was gonna wanna be an asb historian, I would have kept many