who invented "arbeit macht frei"?
ferrante formato
Was it first or after 1931?
--
Andrew Clark
> Who invented the assertion "arbeit macht frei"?
> Was it first or after 1931?
The phrase was common in German from the 19th century
onwards as part of the strong body of teaching on the
Protestant work ethic. It was adopted by the Weimar
government in 1928 as a slogan describing the effects of
their desired policy of large-scale public work programmes
to end unemployment. It was continued in this usage by the
NSDAP when it came into power in 1933.
It was placed on the gates of some death, work and
concentration camps as a cruel joke on the inmates.
--
Cub Driver
Evidently before. Wikipedia says that: "In 1872, the
German-nationalist author Lorenz Diefenbach used it as a title for a
novel, which caused it to become well-known in nationalist circles.
The slogan was then employed by the German Nazi party during the
1930s, at the time when they were instigating a massive national
construction policy to counter unemployment."
It goes on to say with respect to the concentration camps that "the
use of the slogan in this particular way was ordered by SS General
Theodor Eicke, inspector of the concentration camps."
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--
Andrew Clark
> Evidently before. Wikipedia says that:
Wikipedia is not generally to be regarded as a wholly
reliable source, especially in this case. For example, the
article omits the fact that the phrase "arbeit macht frei"
was used in official state publications by Weimar in
1928/29. That is its real origin from the SS perspective -
institutional memory.
--
Mike Piacente
"Cub Driver" <war...@mailblocks.com> wrote in message
news:dfkhqu$fdq$1...@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
John Dean
Why does that omission make Wikipedia unreliable? It doesn't say it
*wasn't* used in 1928. It says it was used as the title of a novel in
1872 and subsequently used by the Nazis in the 30s. I take it you don't
dispute that information? Simply in respect of those particulars,
Wikipedia has more information on the origin of the phrase than
Encyclopaedia Britannica, Microsoft Encarta and the Oxford English
Dictionary put together. Those three works of reference omit entirely
any mention of the origin of the slogan. Does that make them unreliable?
Do we have any facsimiles of these official publications on-line showing
the use of "Arbeit macht frei" in 1928?
--
John Dean
Oxford
--
Steve Hanson
@gnus01.u.washington.edu:
> Who invented the assertion "arbeit macht frei"?
> Was it first or after 1931?
It was also popular stateside.
Camp Gruber in northern Oklahoma was used as a POW camp. Each morning, the
german POWs were marched from the billets area to their assigned tasks for
the day through a stone gate. Over the gate was engraved the phrase "Arbeit
Macht Frei".
As an aside. The POWs would form up and march to the gate singin German
marching songs. Once they passed the gate, they were silent until they
returned to their billet area.
--
Martin Rapier
news:dfl9ii$4t1$1...@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> FYI - Eicke was also the first commandant of Dachau.
And later the commander of of 3rd SS 'Totenkopf' Division, initally
recruited from concentration camp guards.
Martin
--
Don Phillipson
> Camp Gruber in northern Oklahoma was used as a POW camp. Each morning, the
> german POWs were marched from the billets area to their assigned tasks for
> the day through a stone gate. Over the gate was engraved the phrase
"Arbeit
> Macht Frei".
I am suspicious. . .
1. Just how many US PoW camps in WW2 were ornamented
with a "stone gate?"
2. Since this German slogan was both known to and
deplored by US military authorities, what was so different
about Camp Gruber that local US military authorities
approved this enemy-language slogan for American use?
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
--
Andrew Clark
> Why does that omission make Wikipedia unreliable?
I said: "Wikipedia is not generally to be regarded as a
wholly reliable source, especially in this case". And, yes,
in this case Wikipedia is not wholly reliable.
> It doesn't say it *wasn't* used in 1928. It says it was
> used as the title of a novel in 1872 and subsequently
> used by the Nazis in the 30s. I take it you don't
> dispute that information?
Thus implying, wrongly, that the Nazis took the phrase from
the book. Which is wrong. Hence my remark.
--
wer...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
> "Steve Hanson" <arg...@cox.net> posted Sept. 7:
>> Camp Gruber in northern Oklahoma was used as a POW camp.
Camp Gruber was, in fact, NOT used as a POW camp -- it was far too big
an installation for that. Here is what their website says about it:
...During the course of World War II Camp Gruber provided training to infantry,
field artillery, and tank destroyer units that went on to fight in Europe.
Units of the 88th Infantry Division ("Blue Devil Division") trained at Camp Gruber.
In 1943 the 42nd Infantry Division ("Rainbow Division") was reactivated at Gruber.
In 1945 the 86th Infantry Division ("Blackhawk Division") was stationed there
pending deactivation at the end of the war. Ultimately, more than 44,868 troops
either served at or trained at the camp, which also employed four thousand
civilian workers and incarcerated three thousand German prisoners of war
(in a facility west of Highway 10, separate from the base).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Camp Gruber served as infantry and support group training base for the U.S.
Army until after the end of World War II.
On June 3, 1947, Camp Gruber was deactivated and became surplus property...
source: <http://www.ok-history.mus.ok.us/enc/gruber.htm>
>> Each morning, the German POWs were marched from the billets area to their
>> assigned tasks for the day through a stone gate. Over the gate was engraved
>> the phrase "Arbeit Macht Frei".
I couldn't find any online confirmation for that story...
I tried snooping for the gate using Google Earth but, alas, no luck! :)
> I am suspicious...
> 1. Just how many US PoW camps in WW2 were ornamented with a "stone gate?"
<chuckle> we both have too much time on our hands...
> 2. Since this German slogan was both known to and deplored by US military
> authorities...
was it that? Actually, I wouldn't have expected that to be the case
at that time... after the war, well, yes... the same is true, btw,
for the term "concentration camp" (which was in general use in English
to describe the internment camps for Germans brought to the U.S. from
Latin America, for example)
>...what was so different about Camp Gruber that local US military
> authorities approved this enemy-language slogan for American use?
I don't know, give'em a dose of their own medicine?!?
It is doubtful, in fact, that German POWs were associating the
expression with Nazi attricities, rather would be thinking of
it as something they might have seen in German photo/film news
reporting about "Arbeitslager" (work camps) during the 1930's...
p.s.: it appears that several thousand refugees from New Orleans have
recently arrived at Camp Gruber...
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Cub Driver
<dphil...@ncf.ca> wrote:
>2. Since this German slogan was both known to and
>deplored by US military authorities, what was so different
>about Camp Gruber that local US military authorities
>approved this enemy-language slogan for American use?
My impression of the PW camps in the U.S. is that the American
authorities left them pretty much to their own devices, with the
result that some were indeed run by Nazis.
As to the particular slogan, I doubt that many stateside American
officers during the war had the slightest notion of what it signified.
I was quite unaware of the existence of the concentration camps until
I saw the British doccos about their liberation about 1948. They were
not a big news item in the U.S. in the spring of 1945, never mind
earlier.
John Dean
> "John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote
>
>> Why does that omission make Wikipedia unreliable?
>
> I said: "Wikipedia is not generally to be regarded as a
> wholly reliable source, especially in this case". And, yes,
> in this case Wikipedia is not wholly reliable.
And the other sources I quoted? Simce they make no reference to the
undisputed facts Wikipedia *does* record, are they less reliable than
Wikipedia?
>
>> It doesn't say it *wasn't* used in 1928. It says it was
>> used as the title of a novel in 1872 and subsequently
>> used by the Nazis in the 30s. I take it you don't
>> dispute that information?
>
> Thus implying, wrongly, that the Nazis took the phrase from
> the book. Which is wrong. Hence my remark.
There's no such implication in Wikipedia except in your imagination.
Still waiting for your supporting evidence on the use of the slogan in
official documents from 1928 ...
Andrew Clark
I don't propose to enter into further discussion about the
accuracy of Wikipedia. I am happy to debate history,.
however.
> Still waiting for your supporting evidence
> on the use of the slogan in
> official documents from 1928 ...
Well, to pluck some works from my first bookshelf, it's
mentioned by Benno Mueller-Hill, Brietman and Browning in
standard Holocaust histories... I suggest you read more
widely.
--
John Dean
> "John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote
>
> I don't propose to enter into further discussion about the
> accuracy of Wikipedia. I am happy to debate history,.
> however.
Sure. As long as you realise your inability to distinguish between the
meanings of "subsequently" and "consequently" mean your contributions
cannot be regarded as wholly reliable.
>
>> Still waiting for your supporting evidence
>> on the use of the slogan in
>> official documents from 1928 ...
>
> Well, to pluck some works from my first bookshelf, it's
> mentioned by Benno Mueller-Hill, Brietman and Browning in
> standard Holocaust histories... I suggest you read more
> widely.
Well, to pluck a quote from your earlier post "It was adopted by the
Weimar
government in 1928 as a slogan describing the effects of
their desired policy of large-scale public work programmes
to end unemployment."
... and I'd like to see some evidence of this official adoption and
usage. I'm sure lots of people mention it. You mentioned it yourself.
But I could read every book in the British Museum without discovering it
unless it actually exists. Which you claim it does. And could,
presumably, out of your genuine desire to "debate history" furnish
relevant cites. Are Benno Mueller-Hill, Brietman and Browning wholly
reliable?
If you were to explore your second bookshelf, what wonders might you be
able to share?
Don Phillipson
> I was quite unaware of the existence of the concentration camps until
> I saw the British doccos about their liberation about 1948. They were
> not a big news item in the U.S. in the spring of 1945, never mind earlier.
This reflects no credit on US news media of 1946. The
Nuremburg International Military Tribunal which tried Goering,
Jodl et al. 1945-46 was extensively reported (was the only or first
occasion when Allied occupation forces in Germany actively
solicited press coverage) and German and British film of concentration
camps and/or death camps was shown during the court proceedings.
Camp commandant Rudolf Hoess was tried not long thereafter.