Advice to Jewish Mothers: Don't let your kids learn this
Adhabuhu
Sanhedrin 57a: . A Jew need not pay a Christian ("Cuthean") the wages owed
him for work.
Can Dhacir explain this?
Adhabuhu
drahcir
wrote:
Man, join your buddy imatexan in trying to denigrate the talmud. When
you are done, the fact will remain and be obvious, that the people
who are of the group that wrote the talmud are the most successful and
have given the most to mankind of any group on earth, of this there
can be no doubt. In my view they are also the wisest, based on jews I
have known as well as books I have read. The other point is that the
koran has no wisdom, as proven by the fact that muslims are the
sorriest lot on the planet. If there were good in the koran, it would
lead its adherents out of their squalor, out of their violence, out of
their lack of education, out of their lack of morals, but, hey, the
effects speak for themselves. Keep your koran, poor boy, it lacks by
far the wisdom to lead you out of your mess.
drahcir
wrote:
>Straight from the Talmud:
Sorry, forgot to answer your question.
RESPONSE (3)
It is certainly not "OK to cheat non-Jews". In the Tosefta Baba Kama
(10:8) we are taught: "It is more grievous to steal from a non-Jew
than from a Jew because of the desecration of G-d's name".
In Sanhedrin 57a the Talmud discusses the Noahide laws which are
binding on all non-Jews. It specifically examines the source of the
prohibition against holding back wages. Such practice is forbidden to
everyone - both Jew and non-Jew - but the biblical source of this
prohibition is different for Jews and non-Jews.
Jews are prohibited from holding back wages by specific verses in the
bible (Lev. 19:13; Deut. 24:14) which impose this prohibition only on
Jews. These verses specifically prohibit Jews from holding back wages
from anyone, whether Jew or non-Jew (Rambam, positive commandment
#200).
For non-Jews the biblical source for this prohibition is the verse
generally prohibiting non-Jews from stealing.
In this passage the Talmud examines the prohibition of withholding
wages with reference only to the scriptural passage prohibiting
non-Jews from such behavior. The proper translation of the passage is
this:
"holding back wages - a Cuthean [who does this] to a Cuthean -
prohibited [by the verse prohibiting non-Jews from stealing]; a Jew to
a Cuthean - permitted [by this verse, but prohibited by other verses
which specifically prohibit a Jew from holding back wages].
It may be noted that there are other situations where Jews are
forbidden to do something by one verse and Gentiles are forbidden the
same action by a different verse.
blackgold
Christian(s) as such. You must be the world's greatest liar!
"Adhabuhu" <Adha...@jehannama.com> wrote in message
news:YXUna.76038$Vzu....@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
drahcir <ple...@please.com> wrote:
I am glad you were able to give a direct and documented answer to his
question. Frankly, as a Muslim, I do not like the approach taken by the
person who calls himself "Adhabuhu". He seems to take great delight in
citing Jewish sources out of context and presenting them in ways that
distort the understanding that Jews themselves have of those texts.
He uses the fake address "Adha...@jehannama.comin Arabic, "jehannam"
means Gehenna or Hell, so the address would be, in plain text,
"Adhabuhu-in-Hell".
Furthermore, from a Muslim perspective, those who damn ALL Jews are
committing a grave sin. God himself tells us that the only distinction
to be made between men and women is their degree of piety--not their
race, religion, nationality, etc. To condemn all Jews, as a race or
community, is to ignore God's own words in the Qur'an:
"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and
Christians] are a portion that are righteous: They recite the
Scriptures of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in
adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is
right, and forbid what is wrong; and they are quick to do good works:
They are in the ranks of the righteous. (3:113-114)"
--
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
drahcir
I just realized that the fact that I cut the author's email address to
respect his privacy may lead some to believe I wrote the above
response. I did not. I know nothing of the Talmud. Sorry for any
misunderstanding.
Regarding Buhu, he is a lost child, in my view on the edge of insanity
(I am truly not sure which edge). He is interested in denigrating the
talmud as a means to feel better about the barrage of attacks on the
koran in this NG that he endures. I think he is less of an antisemite
than the other talmud denigrator in this NG, the moron imatexan aka
not_over_the_hill.
A Abdou
Stop here Mr. Evans: You know very well that most Muslims are
anti-semitic!! Buhu is not the exception. He is just an idiot, and he
runs away when you challenge him like you too sir and you are not any
different. I'm shocked and horrified by the anti-semitism, the
anti-Christianity and the anti-Hinduism of most Muslims. I can only
blame the author of the Koran. You sir declared that Ganesh is not a
God. Remeber that sir? You are not any better than the idiot Buhu. I
except more from a Western educated person like you. But Islam is
known to be bad for your brain.
> He seems to take great delight in
> citing Jewish sources out of context and presenting them in ways that
> distort the understanding that Jews themselves have of those texts.
But Mr. Evans your Allah declares in the al-Fatiha that He is angry at
the Jews. So you see Mr. Evans: I suspect that Buhu is trying to help
Him.
> He uses the fake address "Adha...@jehannama.comin Arabic, "jehannam"
Idiot: Your Arabic sucks sir. Adhabuhu means: His good behaviour but
the word Adhab could also mean literature as in Koliat al-Adhab or the
Faculty of Literature.
> means Gehenna or Hell,
No Mr. Evans: Hell in Arabic means Gohannam. I do not know what the
word "Jehhanama means". Unless the idiot Buhu is a Paki who is cluless
in Arabic, which he is not as his Arabic tranliteration is rather very
good. I suspect that he is Lebanese and he lives in Montreal which is
full of Lebanese Muslims.
> so the address would be, in plain text,
> "Adhabuhu-in-Hell".
Mr. Evans: Your Arabic sucks. His e-mail address means: "His good
manners at Jehennama" which I have no idea what the word Jehennama
means. And if you can find out please let me know. I have checked in
Lisan al-'Arab and Wortabet dictionary and I still have no answer. The
only Arabs that use the "G" instead of the "J" for a Geem are the
Egyptians, but he is not Egyptian.
> Furthermore, from a Muslim perspective, those who damn ALL Jews are
> committing a grave sin.
But your Allah does damn the Jews in al-Fatiha sir. So is your Allah
committing a grave sin?
>God himself tells us that the only distinction
> to be made between men and women is their degree of piety--
Are you for real? So men and women are equal otherwise in the eyes of
Allah? you are kidding me!!!
>not their
> race, religion, nationality, etc. To condemn all Jews, as a race or
> community, is to ignore God's own words in the Qur'an:
> "Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and
> Christians] are a portion that are righteous: They recite the
> Scriptures of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in
> adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is
> right, and forbid what is wrong; and they are quick to do good works:
> They are in the ranks of the righteous. (3:113-114)"
I'm getting sick of this Mr. Evans. Are you going to run away on me
sir as you did? So here is the tranliteration of the above ayatain
(dual case) and if you run away I will know that you are nothing but a
fraud. I urge you to read the aya before. More later.
"Layso sawa' men ahl al-kitab uma qa'ema yatloon ayat Allah ana'
al-layil wahoom yasgedoon, ya'mennon be Allah wa al yawm al-akhir wa
yaamroon belma'roof wayanhoon 'aan al-monkar wa yosare'oon fi
al-khayrat waelyaka men al-saleheen."
Now Mr. Evans could you be kind enough and tell us what do the
following ayas say: 3:109 to 3:112? I will be waiting sir. And you
know what I will prove to you that one cannot blame Buhu for being an
anti-semite from these few ayat sir. I can only blame the author of
the Koran.
A Abdou
Buhu: you are an idiot. What is your point?
A Abdou
Very good answer. As for Mr. Evans: he is not any better than Buhu. He
thinks he is but he is not. I do expect more from a Western educated
person like Mr. Evans, but I guess Islam is known to destroy your
logic and brain.
Now the iamatexan AkA not_ever_the hill is a moron.
Adhabuhu
"Abdelkarim Benoit Evans" <kev...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:kevans-AC52E2....@news.videotron.net...
I'm giving palin Talmud scriptures. Delighted?! No!. I'm defending the 7/24
onslaught on my religion.
> He uses the fake address "Adha...@jehannama.comin Arabic, "jehannam"
> means Gehenna or Hell, so the address would be, in plain text,
> "Adhabuhu-in-Hell".
What does my email address has to do here?
For the explanation: Adhabuhu is the arabic name for "His Punishment"
Meaning Allah's Punishment in Jehannama or Hell.
> Furthermore, from a Muslim perspective, those who damn ALL Jews are
> committing a grave sin.
I'm not damning all the Jews. You're wrong here Mr Evans. I'm taking the
offensive. I'm sick and tired to be in the defensive. I have many jewish
friends and they are well different to the dirty figures I'm facing in this
NG.
>God himself tells us that the only distinction
> to be made between men and women is their degree of piety--not their
> race, religion, nationality, etc. To condemn all Jews, as a race or
> community, is to ignore God's own words in the Qur'an:
No one is condemning the jews in their entirety. The problem which you seem
tom evade here is that we Muslims are facing an onslaught from BAD JEWS IN
THIS NG.
> "Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and
> Christians] are a portion that are righteous: They recite the
> Scriptures of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in
> adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is
> right, and forbid what is wrong; and they are quick to do good works:
> They are in the ranks of the righteous. (3:113-114)"
The warnings Allah swt told Muslims outweight this only verse. And I
answered this to you in previous thread.
You do not need to reply to this. I only have one question to you. Which
side are you?
Adhabuhu ( Arabic word Meaning His Punishment)
Adhabuhu
Already shaky Mr Dhacir. There is a lot to come. The more I read, the more
I'm DISGUSTED. There is NO WAY THAT THE TALMUD HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE
WORDS OF GOD.
Adhabuhu
"A Abdou" <asab...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5ca25087.03041...@posting.google.com...
Could you tell me why are quoting the Qur'an here?
Thx
Adhabuhu
drahcir
wrote:
Whatever you say, buhu. When you go to sleep tonight, maybe you had
better ask yourself why god rewards people that subscribe to a
teaching that has nothing to do with his words more than any other
people, and makes the lives of the people who you say follow his words
the most miserable on earth. that allah, he sho is a perverse fella!
That's what happens when a poor, pathetic child such as yourself goes
to an islamic propoganda site to learn about the talmud. I went to
google, bu. that's where I got the replies. Most of the time, the
first site that came up with your pulled quotes from the talmud was
ummah.org. HAHAHAHA!!! The jews always were, are, and always will be
the beacon to mankind. Muslims are and will always be the dregs of
humanity. And it is all because of WISDOM. Jews have it, Muslims
don't. That's why they trash their own fucking museums! Can you
imagine jews doing this? CAN YOU, BUHU?
JGB
Whatever ostensibly anti-gentile opinions that may be found here and
there in some parts of the Talmud must be understood in the context
of those times when Judah was under Roman control and increasingly
many Gentiles were coming in and pushing Jews off their land and even
killing them. One example was the murder of 20,000 Jews in Caeserea by
greeks and other gentiles therein, which became one of the sparks that
led to the uprisings against Rome.
JGB
> When the Talmud was written, Jesus has not come, and there were no
> Christian(s) as such. You must be the world's greatest liar!<
Actually, the Oral law was being codified, or rather set down on
papyrus around the second century AD. Jews were still fairly populous
in their land almost down to Muslim times, though they were increasingly
being pushed out by the gentiles who were taking over and crowding them off
their land.
JGB
> Christian(s) as such. You must be the world's greatest liar!<
Actually, the Oral law was being codified, or rather set down on
papyrus around the second century AD. Jews were still fairly populous
in their land almost down to Muslim times, though they were increasingly
being pushed out by the gentiles who were taking over and crowding them off
their land.
>
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
asab...@aol.com (A Abdou) wrote:
>
> Stop here Mr. Evans: You know very well that most Muslims are
> anti-semitic!! Buhu is not the exception. He is just an idiot, and he
> runs away when you challenge him like you too sir and you are not any
> different. I'm shocked and horrified by the anti-semitism, the
> anti-Christianity and the anti-Hinduism of most Muslims. I can only
> blame the author of the Koran. You sir declared that Ganesh is not a
> God. Remeber that sir? You are not any better than the idiot Buhu. I
> except more from a Western educated person like you. But Islam is
> known to be bad for your brain.
Most Muslims are not Jew-haters. Most Muslims are anti-Zionists and so
are a considerable number of Orthodox Jews.
>
>
> > He seems to take great delight in
> > citing Jewish sources out of context and presenting them in ways that
> > distort the understanding that Jews themselves have of those texts.
>
> But Mr. Evans your Allah declares in the al-Fatiha that He is angry at
> the Jews. So you see Mr. Evans: I suspect that Buhu is trying to help
> Him.
Al-Fatiha is of GENERAL application. When the Prophet explained the
meaning of the mention in it of those who had incurred God's wrath and
those who had gone astray, he gave the EXAMPLE of the Christians and
Jews, introducing his mention of them with the words "such as".
>
> > He uses the fake address "Adha...@jehannama.comin Arabic, "jehannam"
>
> Idiot: Your Arabic sucks sir. Adhabuhu means: His good behaviour but
> the word Adhab could also mean literature as in Koliat al-Adhab or the
> Faculty of Literature.
The Arabic word for civility or literature is NOT "adhab" it is "adab" !
>
> > means Gehenna or Hell,
>
> No Mr. Evans: Hell in Arabic means Gohannam. I do not know what the
> word "Jehhanama means". Unless the idiot Buhu is a Paki who is cluless
> in Arabic, which he is not as his Arabic tranliteration is rather very
> good. I suspect that he is Lebanese and he lives in Montreal which is
> full of Lebanese Muslims.
Gehenna is an ENGLISH synonym for Hell. It is from the Hebrew through
Greek (Ge'Hinnom = Valley of Hinnom). The Arabic word for Hell is NOT,
as you say, "Gohannam", it is "Jahannam"
(jim-fatHa--ha-fatHa--nun-shedda-fatHa--mim).
>
> > so the address would be, in plain text,
> > "Adhabuhu-in-Hell".
>
> Mr. Evans: Your Arabic sucks. His e-mail address means: "His good
> manners at Jehennama" which I have no idea what the word Jehennama
> means. And if you can find out please let me know. I have checked in
> Lisan al-'Arab and Wortabet dictionary and I still have no answer. The
> only Arabs that use the "G" instead of the "J" for a Geem are the
> Egyptians, but he is not Egyptian.
>
> > Furthermore, from a Muslim perspective, those who damn ALL Jews are
> > committing a grave sin.
>
> But your Allah does damn the Jews in al-Fatiha sir. So is your Allah
> committing a grave sin?
>
>
> >God himself tells us that the only distinction
> > to be made between men and women is their degree of piety--
>
> Are you for real? So men and women are equal otherwise in the eyes of
> Allah? you are kidding me!!!
That is what the Qur'an says; you are free to believe otherwise if you
wish.
>
>
> >not their
> > race, religion, nationality, etc. To condemn all Jews, as a race or
> > community, is to ignore God's own words in the Qur'an:
> > "Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and
> > Christians] are a portion that are righteous: They recite the
> > Scriptures of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in
> > adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is
> > right, and forbid what is wrong; and they are quick to do good works:
> > They are in the ranks of the righteous. (3:113-114)"
>
> I'm getting sick of this Mr. Evans. Are you going to run away on me
> sir as you did? So here is the tranliteration of the above ayatain
> (dual case) and if you run away I will know that you are nothing but a
> fraud. I urge you to read the aya before. More later.
>
> "Layso sawa' men ahl al-kitab uma qa'ema yatloon ayat Allah ana'
> al-layil wahoom yasgedoon, ya'mennon be Allah wa al yawm al-akhir wa
> yaamroon belma'roof wayanhoon 'aan al-monkar wa yosare'oon fi
> al-khayrat waelyaka men al-saleheen."
>
> Now Mr. Evans could you be kind enough and tell us what do the
> following ayas say: 3:109 to 3:112? I will be waiting sir. And you
> know what I will prove to you that one cannot blame Buhu for being an
> anti-semite from these few ayat sir. I can only blame the author of
> the Koran.
If you read 3:109 through 3:114, you will see that although the Jews and
Christians, as a class, are condemned for their collective errors in
matters of religion, it is pointed out that in spite of misunderstanding
and misguidance, some of them are believers because they seek in good
faith the God of Abraham.
--
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
<nS%na.65418$BQi....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
"Adhabuhu" <Adha...@jehannama.com> wrote:
> What does my email address has to do here?
> For the explanation: Adhabuhu is the arabic name for "His Punishment"
> Meaning Allah's Punishment in Jehannama or Hell.
The Arabic verb for "to punish" is "addaba" and the related noun for
punishment is "ta'dib". "His punishment" would thus be "ta'dibuhu", not
"adhabuhu". I'm not sure why you have added an "a" at the end of
jahannam or reduced to the first fatHa (a) to a kasra (e).
His punishment [is] in Hell would be "ta'dibuhu fi jahannam" or perhaps
in a symbolic email address, "tadibuhu@jahannam"
>
> > Furthermore, from a Muslim perspective, those who damn ALL Jews are
> > committing a grave sin.
>
> I'm not damning all the Jews. You're wrong here Mr Evans. I'm taking the
> offensive. I'm sick and tired to be in the defensive. I have many jewish
> friends and they are well different to the dirty figures I'm facing in this
> NG.
I'm glad to see that you are not blindly striking out at all Jews.
However, you might want to consider the criticism that I and others have
made as indicative of the impropriety of your way of defending yourself
or your religion. You come across as a very spiteful person.
--
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
drahcir
I could be wrong, but I think there is some semantic confusion here. I
believe that mr. Evans, when he said
>>God himself tells us that the only distinction
>> to be made between men and women is their degree of piety--
he meant by "men and wormen", "people", so it reads "the only
distinction to be made between people is their degree of piety." He
did not mean that degree of piety is the only thing that distinguishes
men from women in the Koran. Or so I think.
Hey, did you see that review of Peters I posted? What did you think?
Steadfast
Semitism while he is not
he takes advantage of the multitude in this newsgroup that they do not know
this
but your answer was very good to expose that
"Abdelkarim Benoit Evans" <kev...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:kevans-8C0B67....@news.videotron.net...
Devon Hill
you directing these outtakes of the Talmud at exactly?? It's not relevant
to most of us!
Devon Hill
"Adhabuhu" <Adha...@jehannama.com> wrote in message
news:nS%na.65418$BQi....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
A Abdou
> In article
> <nS%na.65418$BQi....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
> "Adhabuhu" <Adha...@jehannama.com> wrote:
>
> > What does my email address has to do here?
> > For the explanation: Adhabuhu is the arabic name for "His Punishment"
> > Meaning Allah's Punishment in Jehannama or Hell.
>
> The Arabic verb for "to punish" is "addaba" and the related noun for
> punishment is "ta'dib".
Your Arabic sucks Mr. Evans. the word "punish" means: 'Eqab (ref:
Wortabet page 302) and it is very different from the word "'addub"
(aleph with a fatha and a hamza or 'a, dal with a fatha and a shadda
or dda, beh with a fatha or b) which means: disicpline (ref: Wortabet
page 120 Disciplinary: Ta'deebee (a.),Disicipline: 'Addub or Hadhab or
ta'deeb v. t. or n.).
So Buhu is also wrong in assuming that the word in his e-mail address
means: "His punishment" when it should be "His disicipline." I still
have not changed my mind that his command of tranliteration is very
good contrary to yours.
>"His punishment" would thus be "ta'dibuhu", not
> "adhabuhu".
No Mr. Evans: Ta'dibuhu means: His discipline, and it does not mean
his punishment as you claim. As for the tranliterated adhabuhu I think
we agree that the uhu means: His and now for the: Adhab I can only
read it here as: Addab or manners (see Wortabet: 237). Why did he add
the "h" to make it read as the letter dhal? I have no idea and I must
assume that he is clueless about the proper rules of transliteration.
> I'm not sure why you have added an "a" at the end of
> jahannam or reduced to the first fatHa (a) to a kasra (e).
So why did you assume that it is Gohannam sir? I made it very clear
that I have no idea what the word Jehannama means. Here is the word
Gohannam with vowels:
Geem no vowels (see Wortabet page: 183)which would sound as: G.
Heh with a fatha which would sound as: ha.
Noon (nun if you wish)with a fatha and a shadda which would sound as:
NNa.
and then the letter meem at the end. The only way I can tranliterate
it based on the vowels would be: Gohannam.
> His punishment [is] in Hell would be "ta'dibuhu fi jahannam"
No Mr. Evans: It would be: 'Eqabuhu fi Gohannam.
> or perhaps
> in a symbolic email address, "tadibuhu@jahannam"
That is OK if it means: His discipline in hell.
A Abdou
> I was about to tell you that he imposes himself as an expert in Arabic and
> Semitism while he is not
> he takes advantage of the multitude in this newsgroup that they do not know
> this
>
> but your answer was very good to expose that
Sir: This is called an editorial and nothing is wrong with that, but
if you have something to contribute to the discussion go for it or get
lost.
A Abdou
And why not Buhu?
> Thx
You are welcome.
>
> Adhabuhu
A Abdou
> In article <5ca25087.03041...@posting.google.com>,
> asab...@aol.com (A Abdou) wrote:
>
> >
> > Stop here Mr. Evans: You know very well that most Muslims are
> > anti-semitic!! Buhu is not the exception. He is just an idiot, and he
> > runs away when you challenge him like you too sir and you are not any
> > different. I'm shocked and horrified by the anti-semitism, the
> > anti-Christianity and the anti-Hinduism of most Muslims. I can only
> > blame the author of the Koran. You sir declared that Ganesh is not a
> > God. Remeber that sir? You are not any better than the idiot Buhu. I
> > except more from a Western educated person like you. But Islam is
> > known to be bad for your brain.
>
> Most Muslims are not Jew-haters. Most Muslims are anti-Zionists
Provide us with your evidence to your absurd claim tha: "Most Muslims
are not Jew haters. Most Muslims are anti-Zionists."
and so
> are a considerable number of Orthodox Jews.
Does this make it right for Muslims to be anti-Zionists because some
Orthodox Jews are anti-Zionist? Where is your logic Mr. Evans?
> > > He seems to take great delight in
> > > citing Jewish sources out of context and presenting them in ways that
> > > distort the understanding that Jews themselves have of those texts.
> >
> > But Mr. Evans your Allah declares in the al-Fatiha that He is angry at
> > the Jews. So you see Mr. Evans: I suspect that Buhu is trying to help
> > Him.
>
> Al-Fatiha is of GENERAL application. When the Prophet explained the
> meaning of the mention in it of those who had incurred God's wrath and
> those who had gone astray, he gave the EXAMPLE of the Christians and
> Jews, introducing his mention of them with the words "such as".
And because the "such as" idiots like Buhu go over board and become
anti-Christian and anti-Jewish. But Mr. Evans you claimed in your
thread with Harron that because there is no mention of Jews and
Christians in al-Fatiha those who have gone astray and those who
incurred Allah's wrath are not Jews and Christians. What changed sir?
>
> >
> > > He uses the fake address "Adha...@jehannama.comin Arabic, "jehannam"
> >
> > Idiot: Your Arabic sucks sir. Adhabuhu means: His good behaviour but
> > the word Adhab could also mean literature as in Koliat al-Adhab or the
> > Faculty of Literature.
>
> The Arabic word for civility or literature is NOT "adhab" it is "adab" !
Sir: I know of no Arabic word that spells as: aleph dhal aleph beh.
And one must assume that it is: aleph _dal_ aleph beh. Get it sir?
>
> >
> > > means Gehenna or Hell,
> >
> > No Mr. Evans: Hell in Arabic means Gohannam. I do not know what the
> > word "Jehhanama means". Unless the idiot Buhu is a Paki who is cluless
> > in Arabic, which he is not as his Arabic tranliteration is rather very
> > good. I suspect that he is Lebanese and he lives in Montreal which is
> > full of Lebanese Muslims.
>
> Gehenna is an ENGLISH synonym for Hell. It is from the Hebrew through
> Greek (Ge'Hinnom = Valley of Hinnom). The Arabic word for Hell is NOT,
> as you say, "Gohannam", it is "Jahannam"
> (jim-fatHa--ha-fatHa--nun-shedda-fatHa--mim).
We are talking Arabic here sir. Now from Wortabet page: 183.
Geem no vowels. The geem would sound like: G. And where did you get
the fatha from? I would agree that it would be Ga or Ja if you wish,
but there is non. And do me a favor: There is no need to cap the H in
fatha.
Heh with a fatha (and do me a favor: in-order not to confuse the
letter Heh for the letter Hah do not use the ha without adding a dot
under the H....I do not make the rules Mr. Evans.) Which would sound
like: Ha.
Noon (if you wish nun with a line above the u) with a fatha and a
shadda unerneath the fatha would make it sound like: NNa.
Meem (or mim if you wish) would sound like: M.
So it would sound like: G HaNNaM. But because the gh could sound like
the letter ghayn the only possible vowel to be added between the Geem
and the Heh would be an O. get it Sir?
> > > so the address would be, in plain text,
> > > "Adhabuhu-in-Hell".
> >
> > Mr. Evans: Your Arabic sucks. His e-mail address means: "His good
> > manners at Jehennama" which I have no idea what the word Jehennama
> > means. And if you can find out please let me know. I have checked in
> > Lisan al-'Arab and Wortabet dictionary and I still have no answer. The
> > only Arabs that use the "G" instead of the "J" for a Geem are the
> > Egyptians, but he is not Egyptian.
> >
> > > Furthermore, from a Muslim perspective, those who damn ALL Jews are
> > > committing a grave sin.
> >
> > But your Allah does damn the Jews in al-Fatiha sir. So is your Allah
> > committing a grave sin?
> >
> >
> > >God himself tells us that the only distinction
> > > to be made between men and women is their degree of piety--
> >
> > Are you for real? So men and women are equal otherwise in the eyes of
> > Allah? you are kidding me!!!
>
> That is what the Qur'an says; you are free to believe otherwise if you
> wish.
No ask a stupid question and you will get a stupid answer.
Stop here Mr. Evans: This is why the Koran teaches hate and it is the
source and Buhu is the victim. Get it?
> it is pointed out that in spite of misunderstanding
> and misguidance, some of them are believers because they seek in good
> faith the God of Abraham.
I will leave this to the readers to judge. This is why Buhu is
anti-Semite. Get it sir. I can only blame the author of the Koran.
A Abdou
I think that you might be right.
>
> Hey, did you see that review of Peters I posted? What did you think?
No I did not. I'm so busy and I only have a few minutes a day to read
this NG. But I will find it and read it. I know in advance that you
will do a good job.
drahcir
wrote:
>Uh Ad, most of us here are not Jewish anyways........who exactly are
>you directing these outtakes of the Talmud at exactly?? It's not relevant
>to most of us!
The funniest part is that it is not relevant even to those of us who
are jews here! In fact there seem to be exactly 2 people who find any
significance in it: Ad and imatexan. That's a pair, wouldn't you say?
It brings to light a primary difference between jews and muslims. Even
religious jews that I know do not consult the talmud -- whatever
exposure they get to the talmud is filtered via their rabbi who has
studied it with the idea of making it relevant to modern life. The
Babylonian Talmud was written around 500 ce, and thus one would expect
it to contain obsolete material. Thus phrases which may be
questionable, such as the one that may suggest to the ignorant that
debts need not be paid to non-jews, are viewed in context and whatever
good contained therein is extracted and transmitted. The result is
that the marvelous wisdom that I know is contained in the talmud from
reading books about its content is transmitted to the flock. Thus,
jews pay their debts, do not stone people, etc. Duh.
Contrast that with the Koran. The Koran is meant to speak to each
reader directly, without intervention. It was written only a short
time after the talmud, but none can claim any part of it obsolete
because it is supposed to have been written not by arabs who lived
1300 years ago, but by timeless Allah. Thus Muslims are locked into
principles, admonitions, instructions written 1300 or so years ago.
This critical and fundamental difference between the koran and the
talmud appears to be lost on poor buhu, and it is the reason the
muslim world is where it is today and has no hope of improvement until
the religion is forsaken.
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
> Why did he add the "h" to make it read as the letter dhal? I have no
> idea and I must assume that he is clueless about the proper rules of
> transliteration.
Because he was thinking of a term neither you nor I came upon at first
reading.
He was probably thinking of "3aDHaabu alnaari" which means "punishment
of the fire (i.e., hell)".
I know you don't like the ASCII system of transliteration I sometimes
use, but since it is clear...and it is clearer than Adhahahu's ambiguous
transliteraion...
3 = 'ayn
DH = dhal
a = fatHa
aa = alif (long vowel)
i = kasra
ii = waw (long vowel)
u = damma
--
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
Steadfast
or give an advice to another
is just as good contribution as any
"A Abdou" <asab...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5ca25087.03041...@posting.google.com...
A Abdou
> when I make a remark of pointing things to some one
> or give an advice to another
> is just as good contribution as any
As I said an editorial is OK, however, you seem to be sincere and it
is OK to have limited English. Go for it. Your participation will be
appreciated. And wlecome to our discussion.
A Abdou
> In article <5ca25087.03041...@posting.google.com>,
> asab...@aol.com (A Abdou) wrote:
>
> > Why did he add the "h" to make it read as the letter dhal? I have no
> > idea and I must assume that he is clueless about the proper rules of
> > transliteration.
>
> Because he was thinking of a term neither you nor I came upon at first
> reading.
>
> He was probably thinking of "3aDHaabu alnaari" which means "punishment
> of the fire (i.e., hell)".
Interesting and very possible. But don't you think that to follow
proper rules of Arabic grammar it will be either: al-3adhab al-naari
or the "the punishment of hell" or: 3adhabuhu fi al-naar or "his
punishment in hell"?
> I know you don't like the ASCII system of transliteration I sometimes
> use,
Don't misunderstand me. I do not mind any thing that is clear and that
we all can understand. However, because I'm in academia I must do it
the "proper" way and I will leave it at that.
>but since it is clear...and it is clearer than Adhahahu's ambiguous
> transliteraion...
Yes his tranliteration here was not the best but in past threads I
very was impressed with his ability to convey the proper sounds of the
Arabic language and that is what good transliteration is all about.
> 3 = 'ayn
> DH = dhal
> a = fatHa
> aa = alif (long vowel)
> i = kasra
> ii = waw (long vowel)
> u = damma
I'm sure you are aware that you do not need to account for vowels when
you tranliterate. You only need to know that the Arabic Ayn is "'" and
the Hamza is "'". That is all.
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
drahcir <ple...@please.com> wrote:
Your Talmud-Qur'an analogy is not appropriate. The proper analogy would
be Torah-Qur'an, both being God's law revealed to one of his prophets.
The Talmud cannot even be compared to the Muslim Traditions (ahadith),
since the latter report the words and actions of the Prophet Muhammad
while the former is not a collection of the tradtions of Moses.
As I understand it, the Talmud is a written expostion and interpretation
by the scholarly ancient rabbis of the oral law given by God (as opposed
to the written law of the Torah). If so, then there is a rough analogy
between the Talmud and the written codifications of the Islamic legal
code (the shari'ah). There are a number of scholarly expositions and
interpretations of shari'ah and those works are not absolute. They made
the Islamic juridical principles relevant to modern life by way of the
methods of ijma (consensus of opinions) and qiyas (analogical
deduction).
--
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
drahcir
Man, it is not my analogy. Buhu wants to deflect attention from the
koran to the talmud. It's his game, i just decided to play.
>The proper analogy would
>be Torah-Qur'an, both being God's law revealed to one of his prophets.
Well, I can't say as that analogy is very good, either. I have read
all of genesis, and most of exodus. I also have read bits and pieces
of the Koran. They do NOT resemble one another at all. The Koran is,
except for a minimal amount of history, a series of instructions
addressed to the reader, and those instructions by definition are
independent of the time in which they were written because they
purport to be from Allah, who is timeless. The Old Testament, on the
other hand, at least as much as I have read, contains no instructions
to the reader. It is rather the recounting of the story of the Hebrews
-- it is narrative. Even the ten commandments are addressed to the
Hebrews in the story, not the reader.
As I stated above, this directive nature of the Koran is its weak
point. A book which is narrative in nature has much more room for
error -- values or customs which may have changed since the torah was
written are perfectly amenable to it, since it is clear from the
outset that everything described happened at a given point in the
past. The directive nature of the Koran, however, coupled with the
fact that the very specific directions contained therein purport to
originate from Allah, who is timeless, does not leave room for
flexibility. The very sorry state of the Muslim world today is a
direct result of attempting to bend and twist 1300 year old directions
supposedly originating from timeless Allah into something that will
lead to success, happiness, and goodness in the 21st century.
You can either believe that this is true and dump the religion, or
accept it and along with it, the sorry state of Muslims in general.
There is no third option, at least as far as I can see.
>The Talmud cannot even be compared to the Muslim Traditions (ahadith),
>since the latter report the words and actions of the Prophet Muhammad
>while the former is not a collection of the tradtions of Moses.
>
>As I understand it, the Talmud is a written expostion and interpretation
>by the scholarly ancient rabbis of the oral law given by God (as opposed
>to the written law of the Torah). If so, then there is a rough analogy
>between the Talmud and the written codifications of the Islamic legal
>code (the shari'ah). There are a number of scholarly expositions and
>interpretations of shari'ah and those works are not absolute. They made
>the Islamic juridical principles relevant to modern life by way of the
>methods of ijma (consensus of opinions) and qiyas (analogical
>deduction).
Yes, we see the effects of shariah on modern life in Saudi Arabia,
Taliban, Nigeria, etc. As best I can tell, the effect of shariah on
modern life is to unmodernize it, to the tune of about 1300 years.
Adhabuhu
Adhabuhu
Mr Evans, I don't think that Shari'a can be compared to the Talmud
teachings.
The root of this word is Shara'a; and some other names of it are Shar',
Shir'ah and Tashri'. The Shari'ah is the revealed and the canonical laws of
the religion of Islam.
The legislative power in the government lies in the hands of legislative
assembly. The legislators are to make rules and regulations within the scope
and dimensions of the QUR'AN & SUNNAH of the Prophet (s.a.w.). These rules
constitute the Shari'ah.
In other words, most Shari'a Laws are framed by verses in the Qur'an or
Ahadiths of the Prophet (sas). Else, you have El-Madhahib El'Arba'a (4) and
the Ijtihad of El-Ummah.
Now for God's Sake Mr Evans, which verses in the Torah, the Rabbis used to
come out with Laws like these:
Baba Kamma 37b: Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has
"exposed their money to Israel."
Baba Kamma 113a: . JEWS MAY USE LIES ("subterfuges") TO CIRCUMVENT A
GENTILE
Yebamoth 98a: All Gentile children are animals.
And my question to all the jews in this NG is if this is not relevant to all
of you, why are these teachings still in exercise in our days?
Adhabuhu
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
> Don't misunderstand me. I do not mind any thing that is clear and
> that we all can understand. However, because I'm in academia I must
> do it [transiteration] the "proper" way and I will leave it at that.
There are several widely-used systems of transliteration. The one I use
in news forums is one proposed around 1985 by Dr. Abdelsalam Heddaya of
Boston University. His scheme, called Qalam, is based on morphology
rather than on phonetics.
Qalam is an Arabic-Latin-Arabic transliteration system between the
Arabic script and the Latin script embodied in the ASCII (American
Standard Code for Information Interchange) character set. The goal of
the Qalam system is to transliterate Arabic script for computer
communication by those literate in the language.
One of the major problems posed by the plain text character set (ASCII)
used by most people is the difficulty of representing and
differentiating between hamza and 'ayn. In scholarly texts, an
apostrophe is often used for hamza and a single open quote mark for ayn
(or a small superior c). Also, dotted consonants are used in scholarly
texts and a macron is used to identify the long vowels. None of that is
possible with plain ASCII, which is why Dr. Heddaya proposed Qalam.
--
Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
A Abdou
> In article <5ca25087.03041...@posting.google.com>,
> asab...@aol.com (A Abdou) wrote:
>
> > Don't misunderstand me. I do not mind any thing that is clear and
> > that we all can understand. However, because I'm in academia I must
> > do it [transiteration] the "proper" way and I will leave it at that.
>
> There are several widely-used systems of transliteration. The one I use
> in news forums is one proposed around 1985 by Dr. Abdelsalam Heddaya of
> Boston University. His scheme, called Qalam, is based on morphology
> rather than on phonetics.
The difficulty with any system based on "morphology" is the wrong
assumption that a non-specialist will be able to read such a text.
> Qalam is an Arabic-Latin-Arabic transliteration system between the
> Arabic script and the Latin script embodied in the ASCII (American
> Standard Code for Information Interchange) character set. The goal of
> the Qalam system is to transliterate Arabic script for computer
> communication by those literate in the language.
Now you got my point: "those literate in the lnaguage." I'm sure that
you agree with me that the best system of tranliterating is a system
with the least rules that can be read, emulated and followed by
specialists and non-specialists.
> One of the major problems posed by the plain text character set (ASCII)
> used by most people is the difficulty of representing and
> differentiating between hamza and 'ayn. In scholarly texts, an
> apostrophe is often used for hamza and a single open quote mark for ayn
> (or a small superior c).
This is very true, and you will find it all in the "Chicago Manual of
Style."
I forgot to mention another rule: if dealing with lam shamsiya you
still should transliterate as: al-Shams instead of Ash shams or
al-salam instead of As salam
> Also, dotted consonants are used in scholarly
> texts and a macron is used to identify the long vowels. None of that is
> possible with plain ASCII, which is why Dr. Heddaya proposed Qalam.
May be in the old transliterated material, and more so from Europe.
Most transliterated material that I come across is based on the above
_very_ few principals and it works very well for the specialist and
non-specialist.
A Abdou
And how do you know that idiot? Are you jealous that I know more than
you do about Islam, the Koran and Arabic and all? Does that hurt you
that much? And would it hurt you more if I tell you that I'm not a
Muslim, have never been one and do not plan to be one? And does it
surprise you that we Kuffar know more about your little cult than you
can imagine?
> Murtad and Qur'an and 2 different paths.
You proved in this thread that you know no Arabic, you are a fuckin
anti-semite and you are an ignorant moron.
Adhabuhu
Truth hurt Abdou supposing you understand the meaning of the word "Murtad"
> > Murtad and Qur'an are 2 different paths.
>
> You proved in this thread that you know no Arabic, you are a fuckin
> anti-semite and you are an ignorant moron.
Wrong here Abdou. And no need to be filthy. We are not supposed to hate
people, we hate their acts if they are wrong even if they are members of
the family.
It's going to be swift and El-Mawt will overtake everybody as Allah swt
said:"Kullu Nafsin dhaekatu'l mawt, thumma ilayna turja3'un".
Sheikh Abdou, you burst in flame quickly. You seem that you have lost a lot
from your ex-culture (Thinking you're an ex-muslim)
Qul Inna 'l mawt Elladhi tafirun minhu, fa innahu mulaqikum, thumma turadun
ila 3'Alimi 'l ghaybi wa Eshahadah fa yunabiukum bima kuntum ta3'malun
I'm a humble person who is giving a helping hand that I will hope you'll
grab.
Huwa elladhi khalaqum fa minkum Kafir wa minkum Mu'min, w' Allahu bima
ta3'malun bassir.
A big difference between the 2 camps. It's the big test that ouy're going to
fail:
La yestawi Ashabu ennari wa Ashabu 'l Jannah, Ashabuh'l Jannah humu'l
Faezun.
Adhabuhu
May Allah swt guide you.
We want you back alive and kicking.