To kill our ideas? Impossible
Ali Asker
by Leyla Zana
How many tens of thousands more must die? How many hundreds must be
disabled? How many millions must be displaced? I am reluctant to say
it, but, do you really want the Ilgaz and Taurus mountains to share
the fate of the Cudi mountains?
Allow people to speak freely. Bring Turkish and Kurdish mothers
together. Do not fear those who speak when you should fear those who
remain silent. Do not fear freedom when you should fear Susurluk and
Yesil (notorious counter-insurgency operative).
And never, but never be frightened of equality and peace while there
are those who nourish themselves on blood, lies, pillage and war and
shed crocodile tears. Instead of raining bombs on the mountains,
watering the soil with blood, tears, gunpowder and mines, try
listening for once without a complex, and with love.
But if you wish try the impossible. Try it again and again for we know
that one day you too will realize it is impossible, and see the
inevitability of peace.
Hopes for peace are boarding the train in Brussels. They will embrace
peace seeking people in the city of Diyarbakir. We know it will not
happen immediately but peace is not too far away.
To kill our ideas? Impossible. To turn us back from our chosen path?
That is also impossible.
Ozgur Politika 17 August 1997, (and in Ulke'de Gundem)
From Kurdistan Report #26, Jan-March 1998, Special Issue
choro-nik
every day!
--
choro-nik
*******
"Ali Asker" <pasa_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:26059bb9.02081...@posting.google.com...
REAL
choro-nik wrote:
> Ali Asker is beginning to sound more and more like the slimy hypocrite REAL
> every day!
>
> --
>
> choro-nik
> *******
The only slimy poster here is YOU. No wonder you changed your nick. You can
change your nick all you like but you can't change the person and your
intolerance for Leyla Zana and other Kurds / individuals who speak u says a lot
about you.
Please do not pay attention to Vasif's unsubstantiated claims. He has no
credibility whatsoever.
See below for more of what this individual is about:
Here are some memorable quotes from Vasif@fisav. This is what he is all about.
"vasif@fisav" wrote:
> i very much doubt that there is anti-kurdish discrimination in turkey
where
> the cabinet includes members of kurdish ethnic origin and where there
has
> been at least one president who was half kurdish.
Obviously he seems never to have heard of Leyla Zana either... of or the
attacks only legal Kurdish party in Turkey HADEP.. or of Turkey's bans on the
Kurdish letter W!
In the documentary Leyla Zana, spoke Kurdish - the parliament ERUPTED!!!!!
Look where she is now, in a Turkish prison.
Here is something on her to educate you:
"To speak freely in a country ruled by an anti-democratic constitution and laws
imposed by military dictatorship is risky -- even for legislators... Turkey
will not settle the problem of its 15 million Kurds by sending eight Kurdish
legislators to the gallows."
Leyla Zana, "On Trial for being a Kurd". Washington Post, December 5, 1994.
Leyla Zana is 36, and the mother of two. She is a peaceful human rights
advocate and a member of the Turkish Parliament. On May 17, 1993, she was
invited to Washington to address the Helsinki commission in the United States
Congress concerning the treatment of Kurds in Turkey. The Turkish government
branded her speech as treasonous, and used it to convict her. On March 2, 1994,
she was stripped of her immunity and taken into custody. Nine months later, she
was sentenced to 15 years in jail by the Ankara State Security Court.
In addition to Leyla Zana, three other Kurdish parliamentarians, Hatip Dicle,
Orhan Dogan and Selim Sadak are also serving 15-year sentences with similar
charges concerning the advocacy of Kurdish rights within Turkey.
In the meantime, the Turkish authorities believe that this woman, whom Amnesty
International has dubbed "a prisoner of conscience", is the enemy of the
country. Recently Zana was charged with another 2 years of imprisonment for
writing a letter to her people, asking them to remain faithful to their
struggle for recognition, dignity and human rights.
He even said:
"vasif@fisav" wrote:
> yes, i DO know what a fascist is. one thing fascists have in common is that
> they always think of themselves as a people being superior to other
> peoples. fortunately i do not suffer from such delusions.
>
> to me all people are equal and i only judge individuals as individuals. why,
> do you have any problems with that?
BUT refuses to answer the question:
Should the government of Turkey allow Kurds the same human rights as the
Turkish government is striving for the Turkish minority in Bulgaria?
He even congratulated Adanali on his quotes from Neom Chosmky on Theodore
Roosevelt in an attempt to discredit his character because he spoke of the
Armenian genocide. BUT the congratulations were never heard for Neom Chomsky
quotes on Turkey and Saudi Arabias support of the tyrannical Saddam regimes
opression of Kurds
"vasif@fisav" wrote:
> thanks to Noam Chomsky for revealing the naked truth and thanks to you for
> drawing our attention to the real truth.
But what about these naked truths Vasif????
Many noted scholars agreed with MIT political scientist Ithiel Pool that
throughout the Third World, "it is clear that order depends on somehow
compelling newly mobilized strata to return to a measure of passivity and
defeatism." The same lessons were soon to be drawn by the Trilateral Commission
for the population of the West, who were undermining democracy" by attempting
to enter the arena of democratic politics instead of keeping to their
"function" as "spectators," as their betters run the show.(8) -APNM, 33ff.;
TNCW, 67-9, 89-90) Such thinking is pervasive, and understandable. It will
persist, as long as threats to order and stability remain. The continuities are
apparent, and quite independent of the Cold War. After the Gulf War, when the
Cold War was lost as a pretext beyond hope of resurrection, George Bush
returned to support for his old friend and ally Saddam Hussein as he crushed
the Shi'ites in the South and then the Kurds in the North. Western ideologues
explained that although these atrocities offend our delicate sensibilities, we
must nevertheless accept them in the name of "stability." The chief diplomatic
correspondent of the New York Times, Thomas Friedman, outlined Bush
Administration reasoning: Washington seeks "the best of all worlds: an
iron-fisted Iraqi junta without Saddam Hussein," a return to the days when
Saddam's "iron fist held Iraq together, much to the satisfaction of the
American allies Turkey and Saudi Arabia," not to speak of the boss in
Washington. Saddam Hussein committed his first serious crime on August 2, 1990,
when he disobeyed orders. Therefore he must be destroyed, but some clone must
be found to ensure "stability." In accord with the same doctrines, the Iraqi
democratic opposition was barred from contact with Washington, hence from the
mainstream US media, throughout
the crisis (and, indeed, before and after). It was not until summer 1992, in
the context of electoral concerns, that the Bush Administration opened limited
contacts with Iraqi democrats.(9)-Friedman, NYT, July 7, 1991. Iraqi
democrats, DD, ch. 6.4, "Afterword," sec. 4, and earlier articles in Z
magazine.)
These are leading features of the New World Order, as of the old,
well-documented in the internal record, regularly illustrated in historical
practice, bound to persist as contingencies change.
From:Year 501 Copyright © 1993 by Noam Chomsky. Published by South End Press.
Chapter 2: The Contours of World Order Segment at:
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/year/year-c02-s03.html
After a visit to Brazil in 1972, Harvard political scientist Samuel Huntington
urged some relaxation of the fascist terror, but with moderation: "relaxation
of controls" might "have an explosive effect in which the process gets out of
control," he warned. He suggested the model of Turkey or Mexican one-party
rule, playing down the importance of liberal rights in comparison with the more
significant values of
"institutionalization" and stability.
Year 501 Copyright © 1993 by Noam Chomsky. Published by South End Press.
Chapter 7: World Orders Old and New: Latin America Segment 6/17
And here are the neverending examples of his perverted thinking that he spreads
to newsgroups.
"vasif@fisav" wrote:
> and i see he likes to trap it inside as well just like a bitch. yes, he will
> trap any "SPAM"... but he likes them long AND thick.
"vasif@fisav" wrote:
> of course voyager never "vazei katw" -- except his derriere that
> is;-))))))))
>
> he has tried this trick with others before. what's wrong if he tries it with
> gogu?
>
> he is just a big headed stupid idiot who thinks he is more important that
> the rest of us put together. and that includes you, johannes.
"vasif@fisav" wrote:
> Ace,
>
> you should realize that it is different types of masts that REAL loves.
>
> he is being his true REAL hypocritical self. and as for the masts capable
> of penetrating siberia, well? i don't know. REAL is not interested in that.
> he is more interested in other penetrations.
Vasif, once again you have exposed your sick mind for all to see. You don't
involve yourself in facts, just sexual inuendo and mumbo jumbo. That's all you
are interested in.
Nevertheless here is the source:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/europe/story.jsp?dir=73&story=81881&host=3&printable=1
> which reminds me of a story. very funny. "com'on, me boy," as the old man
> says, "get that mast up."
>
> sorry i will have to disappoint you but it will take too long to write it
> here and i am definitely not in the mood.
You can claim that I am hypocritical all you like but can NEVER and NEVER have
substantiatied it. Because you CANNOT.
Here's the neverending true story that you can't explain though.. but it
explains and exposes your hypocracy, lies and extremist nature.. by the very
fact that you have continuously refused to answer it.
"vasif@fisav" wrote:
> you burnt down my house on 1 jan 1964. little did you know that that burning
> of a turkish cypriot homes was going to haunt you.
A few months ago you accused me of doing the same, now you're accusing
Voyager..who's next and who else have you accused? Someone else you disagree
with?
Oh and here's something that you can't stand, reality.
Ozker Ozgur: 50,000 Turkish Cypriots emigrated in 27 years.
"vasif@fisav" wrote:
> pronto!!! send a mavrokavlo to REAL, the super arch-hypocrite of various
> news groups.
>
> he is asking for it. he is begging for it. poor freskopaidhi. he likes to be
> manhandled.
and
"vasif@fisav" wrote:
> did you know....
>
> that when you scare a bluebottle off one piece of cowdung, it settles
> on another one nearby. and if you scare it off that one it will go
> back to the original bit of cowdung.
>
> and REAL is no different. one can get him off one bit of cowdung but
> he will promptly land on another bit of cowdung. and if you scare him
> off that bit of cowdung, he will only make a beeline for the first
> one.
>
> after all there are only a limited number of cowdungs. just watch this
> bluebottle fly off from one to the other poking his nose in turns into
> each cake and sip what is to him the "nectar".
You have not PROVED OR SUBSTANTIATED YOUR CLAIMS. And you can't! that's why you
haven't!
The more you come up with ever increasing weird ramblings and subject lines the
more desperate you reveal yourself to be. One who simply cannot argue on
established facts, but instead rely on his own world view. One of "cowdungs,
tapeworms, shit" and whatever else enters your mind. To think these things is
what you seem to be. You do this to divert attention of the real issues and to
minimise them and to promote a discussion of personalities, not what really
matters.
"vasif@fisav" wrote:
> YOU are the loser, voyager. YOU, with the hatred in your heart. YOU who
> gets worked up over one turk on this NG.
Where is the substantiation from you for this? You NEVER provide any, all you
do is make claims and attempt to use sexual innuendos like ..
"vasif@fisav" wrote:
> and i see he likes to trap it inside as well just like a bitch. yes, he will
> trap any "SPAM"... but he likes them long AND thick.
Now just because my email address has the words trap-spam in it like other
people scramble their email addresses to fool the advertisers/spammers you even
find something out of that to externalise your own sick mind.
Their words expose who these individuals are everyday.
Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
> We don't fool around with derriers.
> We ain't no greeks, y' kno. :-)
>
Subject:
Re: STATE MINISTER GUREL IN AUSTRALIA
Date:
Thu, 6 Sep 2001 01:36:24 +0100
From: "vasif@fisav" <va...@fisav.swinternet.co.uk>
I'll find you somebody with a SUBSTANTIAL one to SUBSTANTIATE it up your
derriere, re REAL.
--
vasif@fisav
Subject: Re: Kurdish story: Moments of evidence
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 00:59:29 +0100
From: "vasif@fisav" <va...@fisav.swinternet.co.uk>
"REAL" wrote....
[....]
>Who was Ataturk?.. learn how he destroyed the Ottoman Empire and created
Turkey.<
[....]
Go on licking Armenian and Kurdish dicks but don't forget to Vaseline your
bum well for those Turks are going to bugger you. But maybe, this IS what you
are REALly after.
Seen your animal psychologist lately?
Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
> We don't fool around with derriers.
> We ain't no greeks, y' kno. :-)
>
Subject: Re: Time for peace
Date Fri, 7 Sep 2001 20:21:35 +0100
From: "vasif@fisav" <va...@fisav.swinternet.co.uk>
Guray Acar wrote...
[....]
> First learn to express yourself without personal insults..
That's way more important for your education. Then we can talk
like two civilised people, and perhaps, you can teach me what
I don't know ..<
[....]
Honestly Guray, if you want to talk with greeks find an honest individual.
You are wasting your time trying to talk with the likes of REAL and Voyager.
REAL is the dick-licker who will lick any dick so long as they pay him with
peanuts and Voyager is the eternal pimp.
What on earth do you hope to learn by talking to these two characters?
--
vasif@fisav
*********
Subject: Re: STATE MINISTER GUREL IN AUSTRALIA
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:10:31 +0100
From: "vasif@fisav" <va...@fisav.swinternet.co.uk>
REAL,
how many times do i have to tell you. the only thing exposed on 'ere NGs is
your derriere. why do you feel so obligated to bend over for penes? is it
because you are prepared to work for peanuts so long as you get the
opportunity to hit out at turks?
don't worry boy. we won't stop you enjoying not a single one of your peanuts
or penes that you work so hard for.
ENJOY!!!
Subject: Re: STATE MINISTER GUREL IN AUSTRALIA
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 13:54:34 +0100
From: "vasif@fisav" <va...@fisav.swinternet.co.uk>
"REAL" <traprea...@SPAMTRAPPEDhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3B9738B6...@SPAMTRAPPEDhotmail.com...
> In other words you can't and Nevzat can't. Not surprised.
>
....and you REAL are a REAL cunt (and here i am NOT talking about the
biological meaning of the word). Look it up in a proper dictionary which
will hopefully give you a FULL description of yourself.
--
vasif@fisav
*********
Subject: Re: Greece withdraws from Turkish fair over Turkish Cypriot
participation
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 01:13:00 +0100
From: "vasif@fisav" <va...@fisav.swinternet.co.uk>
sorry REAL but unfortunately i am definitely NOT interested in your
derriere. but don't worry boy, there are lots of others who wouldn't mind
being your bedfellows.
after all, there is no shortage of dicks!!!
there's plenty more where they came from;-)))))))))))
--
vasif@fisav
*********
(BELOW proof of where he CANNOT substantiate his claims, because they are lies)
Subject: Re: Time for peace
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 20:55:20 +0100
From: "vasif@fisav" <va...@fisav.swinternet.co.uk>
fuck you, you bastard. anybody can look up the dates of the sampsonite coup
in cyprus against makarios, the turkish landings in cyprus, and the end of
the athens junta of the golo-nellos in greece. they all happened within a
few weeks in the summer of 1974 and in that order.
be thankful to the turks who saved you from the clutches of the
golo-nellos!!!
next you will ask me to SUBSTANTIATE it. Sorry, I am not prepared to
SUBSTANTIATE it but will find you somebody with a SUBSTANTIAL dick --
satisfaction guaranteed or I WILL PERSONALLY PAY YOU 100 PEANUTS.
and being the monkey that you are, i will throw in some BANANAS as well.
ENJOY!!!;-)))))))))))))
--
vasif@fisav
*********
Subject: Re: IS ILINDEN AN ALBANIAN OR A TURK?
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:03:15 +0100
From: "vasif@fisav" <va...@fisav.swinternet.co.uk>
you are a REAL shit stirrer, REAL. than's why you will find me on top of you
all the time. i will go on sodomizing you -- though, take that smile off
your face you poustis because i do NOT mean it literally.
--
vasif@fisav
*********
Subject: Re: IS ILINDEN AN ALBANIAN OR A TURK?
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:05:53 +0100
From: "vasif@fisav" <va...@fisav.swinternet.co.uk>
i have figuratively SUBSTANTIATED it up your arse countless number of times,
you REAL shit-stirrer....
do you want more SUBSTANTIATIONS?
are you a homomaniac or something?
--
vasif@fisav
*********
Subject: Re: And CIA created Bin Landen...
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:27:07 +0100
From: "vasif@fisav" <va...@fisav.swinternet.co.uk>
REAL is talking about arty kolo's. He has got a REALly arty farty kolos, has
REAL... (ROFL)
--
vasif@fisav
*********
Subject: Re: And CIA created Bin Landen...
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:55:31 +0100
From: "vasif@fisav" <va...@fisav.swinternet.co.uk>
what facts are you talking about you REAL _fucked one_?
Why don't you ever do something constructive rather than trying to be
destructive all the time?
Or do you want me to SUBSTANTIATE it again... up your REAL ass?
--
vasif@fisav
*********
=====================================================
Vasif pretty much exposes himself for what he really is in his posts.
WolfWolf
"REAL" <traprea...@SPAMTRAPPEDhotmail.com> wrote
> The only slimy poster here is YOU. No wonder you changed your nick.
REAL likes to insult others and to accuse them of using multiple identities.
He is a pubescent child.
Now he is just yelling like a old bitchy cat with her tail caught in a door.
REAL, your stupid lies are dead and buried. Crawl in after them.
REAL
> TC, didn't your masters tell you to think first and then speak?
> Your great ability of spreading falsehood is not enough - in today's world
> you must substantiate.
where is yours? all you use is anonymous remailers and your "denials are proof"
defence!
> Summary on your statement below: In life be very careful when you make such
> statements, get your facts before running all over your keyboard in anger.
> I have a background in law, and I understand what can and cannot be said.
>
> WolfWolf
> The European
Backgroud in law?
Since when did "denials are proof" become legal? Obviously you have never heard
of innocent until proven guilty.You are a pathetic troll.
The WolfWolf troll has no credibility at all. For example when asked for proof
all he can say is
"Your denials are proof". Maybe they say that in his Turkey but not in true
democracies.
See the google link below for PROOF of this.
WolfWolf
"REAL" <traprea...@SPAMTRAPPEDhotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> Backgroud in law?
REAL has no background at all.
Your stupid lies are dead and buried. Crawl in after them.
arch
> Ali Asker is beginning to sound more and more like the slimy hypocrite REAL
> every day!
>
> --
>
> choro-nik
> *******
This is not something new choro-nik, you were little late to catch the
sound but nevertheless it is never late.... There are some more like
him that do not deserve spending time.
ARCH
==============================================================================
REAL
WolfWolf wrote:
The words of a discredited troll show only how pathetic you are.
WolfWolf
choro-nik
--
choro-nik
*******
"arch" <zca...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5d744b08.02081...@posting.google.com...
arch
> I plead guilty!
>
> --
>
> choro-nik
> *******
come on!!! you have plenty of time and many things still to be discovered :))
ARCH
============
choro-nik
--
choro-nik
*******
"REAL" <traprea...@SPAMTRAPPEDhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3D575C12...@SPAMTRAPPEDhotmail.com...
>
>
> choro-nik wrote:
>
> > Ali Asker is beginning to sound more and more like the slimy hypocrite
REAL
> > every day!
> >
> > --
> >
> > choro-nik
> > *******
>
> The only slimy poster here is YOU. No wonder you changed your nick. You
can
> change your nick all you like [....]
i've changed neither my nick nor my dick. you will remember the taste from
last time? why do you want to taste if again?
REAL
choro-nik wrote:
Not changed your nick? oh really!
The google link does not lie but you obviously and unsurprisingly have.
and in this google link we see the substantiation:
=====================================
From: vasif@fisav (vgcl...@cableinet.co.uk)
Subject: Re: 315 MESSAGES!!! DAMNATION!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Date: 2002-03-27 20:11:40 PST
protimw na se gamisw esena...
--
choronik
*******
====================================
The choronik/vasif troll got careless and posted under his vasif identity but
with a choronik signoff.
What a pathetic troll!