Carter apologizes for 'stigmatizing Israel'
Tilly
contribution he may have had to Jewish nation's negative image
Yitzhak Benhorin Published: 12.21.09, 22:54 / Israel News
WASHINGTON - Former US President Jimmy Carter on Monday asked for the Jewish
community's forgiveness for any negative stigma he may have caused Israel
over the years.
Carter, who is not a popular character in Israel, enraged the American
Jewish community's in the past with various statements made in his book
"Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid."
In the book, Carter blamed Israel for impeding the Middle East peace process
via settlement construction, further claiming such a policy will lead to
apartheid.
The former president also accused Israel of interfering with US efforts to
broker peace in the region.
"We must recognize Israel's achievements under difficult circumstances, even
as we strive in a positive way to help Israel continue to improve its
relations with its Arab populations, but we must not permit criticisms for
improvement to stigmatize Israel.
"As I would have noted at Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, but which is
appropriate at any time of the year, I offer an Al Het for any words or
deeds of mine that may have done so," he said.
"Al Het" refers to the Yom Kippur prayer asking God forgiveness for sins
committed.
Head of the Anti-Defamation League Abraham Foxman welcomed Carter's apology,
saying it marked the beginning of reconciliation.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3823324,00.html
NefeshBarYohai
tdny
Carter apologizes for 'stigmatizing Israel'
Al Smith
Why would Carter suddenly start kissing Zionist ass?
-Al-
NefeshBarYohai
Good question. Carters a fuckner and we won't accepty his apology.
mirjam
What a Hypocracy!!! , the book has already done the Dammage , Will he
recall the Book ? will he publish a new book with the title including
his apology ?
Will he scold the many people who use his book`s title or his words
against us ?
mirjam
American Eagle
In spite of all of that, You Jews are still recalcitrant murderous
thieving Hoodlums. His book is a failure.
Al Nakba
Al Smith
It's strange, though. I wonder if he made a deal, and agreed to make
a public apology in return for some concession or consideration on
behalf of the Palestinians?
-Al-
TheZ
peanut farm.
"Al Smith" <inv...@address.com> wrote in message
news:hgq27v$qm6$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
Bolt Upright
"NefeshBarYohai" <tac...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c47b47bd-9633-44f3...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Who won't? Who do you mean by "we".
The scizophrenic community?
The "voices"?
Bolt Upright
Hopefully. He's a politician, and they work on quid pro quo's.
Bolt Upright
Bolt Upright
"Al Nakba" <william...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:62e548fe-532a-46da...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Sure Billy. And besides posting sophomoric one-liners on newsgroups, what
are YOUR intellectual achievements?
Hmmmm?
last_per...@yahoo.com
> Former US president offers US Jewish community heartfelt apology for any
> contribution he may have had to Jewish nation's negative image
>
> Yitzhak Benhorin Published: 12.21.09, 22:54 / Israel News
>
> WASHINGTON - Former US President Jimmy Carter on Monday asked for the Jewish
> community's forgiveness for any negative stigma he may have caused Israel
> over the years.
How charming. I guess the old bag realizes he's near the end of the
road,
and wants to make sure the ZioNazi doesn't see to it that his name
will never be on buildings or get favorable mention in history books.
last_per...@yahoo.com
Toejam, you remind me of a diseased wharf rat.
last_per...@yahoo.com
As I just stated in another post, the old leftard is worried that
the ZioNazi turds will smear his bones after he croaks. What most
current living Presidents don't seem to realize is that most Americans
will not even recognize their names in very few decades.
Bolt Upright
<last_per...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3abdd34b-23fe-40d4...@g26g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
What do you have against diseased wharf rats?
TheZ
brain should be.
"Bolt Upright" <HughGR...@merde.com> wrote in message
news:1e8d$4b3121ca$d8fe9d22$8...@PRIMUS.CA...
coaste...@yahoo.com
It was a joke! In the first place it's a conditional apology for ANY
contribution he MAY have made to the Jewish State's NEGATIVE IMAGE??
That's funny. The Jewish State's negative image is a fully saturated
phenomenon. As if that were even possible to super-saturate it.
He didn't say a thing which hadn't been said before over and over.
Should HE not say such things because he is Jimmy Carter? That's a bit
odd isn't it? In fact isn't he expected in a moral sense as an elder
statesman to use his influence for good works and in furtherance of
the American interest? One would think so, no?
And then there's the question of apologizing for telling the truth. As
if one can't tell the truth if it may stigmatize someone like Al
Capone. We stigmatize people who commit crimes every day all over the
country. Even Jewish Rabbis. Why not nations? Lots of them have
committed crimes and gotten heavily criticized for it. Well, is it
because the Jewish people are more sensitive than the rest of us.
Well, maybe, but whose problem is that?
It's time for the Israelis to get the hell out of the West Bank.
dsharavi
> Former US president offers US Jewish community heartfelt apology for any
> contribution he may have had to Jewish nation's negative image
....zzzzzzzzzzzzz...............
> Yitzhak Benhorin Published: 12.21.09, 22:54 / Israel News
>
> WASHINGTON - Former US President Jimmy Carter on Monday asked for the Jewish
> community's forgiveness for any negative stigma he may have caused Israel
> over the years.
Now that he's kissed and made up -- send money!
Deborah
> Carter, who is not a popular character in Israel, enraged the American
> Jewish community's in the past with various statements made in his book
> "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid."
>
> In the book, Carter blamed Israel for impeding the Middle East peace process
> via settlement construction, further claiming such a policy will lead to
> apartheid.
>
> The former president also accused Israel of interfering with US efforts to
> broker peace in the region.
>
> "We must recognize Israel's achievements under difficult circumstances, even
> as we strive in a positive way to help Israel continue to improve its
> relations with its Arab populations, but we must not permit criticisms for
> improvement to stigmatize Israel.
>
> "As I would have noted at Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, but which is
> appropriate at any time of the year, I offer an Al Het for any words or
> deeds of mine that may have done so," he said.
>
> "Al Het" refers to the Yom Kippur prayer asking God forgiveness for sins
> committed.
>
> Head of the Anti-Defamation League Abraham Foxman welcomed Carter's apology,
> saying it marked the beginning of reconciliation.
>
> http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3823324,00.html
>
> --
coaste...@yahoo.com
> What a Hypocracy!!! , the book has already done the Dammage , Will he
> recall the Book ?
He hasn't apologized for his book. He just feels bad because he thinks
some Jews might feel bad. He's a Christian you know. Christians are
"humble". Chutzpah isn't one of their characteristics.
will he publish a new book with the title including
> his apology ?
We certainly hope he publishes another book . The situation has gotten
far worse. And insofar as apologies go, the ball's in the Zionists'
court. We'll see if it's reciprocated by the likes of Alan
Dershowitz..
> Will he scold the many people who use his book`s title or his words
> against us ?
Of course not. He doesn't apologize for the book. How could he. The
truth calls for no apologies. He wishes he could pursue the national
interest and the interests of Israel without hurting the feelings of
Jews. He's genuinely sorry if people's feelings are hurt. It's always
been a very delicate operation you know to avoid hurting the feelings
of Jews given the fact that their right wing leadership are almost
perpetually "outraged" by something.
BTW when are the Jews going to apologize for calling Jimmy Carter an
anti-Semite and just about every other filthy thing in their lexicon?
They were trying their best to stigmatize him and all of the growing
millions of us who agree with him. Indeed, why should he apologize to
people for theoretical stigmata when their leadership are nearly full
time stigmatizers? If you are Jimmy Carter you find the answer in
Christian doctrine.
> mirjam
coaste...@yahoo.com
Seems to me more likely a bit of a trap for his vicious critics.
>
> -Al-
coaste...@yahoo.com
On Dec 22, 10:38 am, "TheZ" <T...@nospam.com> wrote:
> I doubt that, probably did it to get free booze for Billy-Bob down at the
> peanut farm.
Said by the brilliant cosmopolitan, "TheZ", for whom James Earl
Carter's resume is not up to standard: you know, Naval Academy,
Nuclear Engineering degree, nuclear submarine duty as an officer,
Governor of Georgia, President of the United States and a brilliant
career in retirement fighting poverty in this country and war and
oppression over seas. That's not good enough even to induce you to
accord him basic personal respect. You can't even accord him the right
to speak his mind. You are not only disgusting, you have a poor
memory. You're only about 2.5% of the population and your arrogance
is getting out ahead of your reality.
dsharavi
Fat chance, he hasn't the balls. When Jim Crow laws were in effect in
the South, Carter dined at whites-only restaurants, used whites-only
facilities, stayed at whites-only hotels, attended whites-only
churches, drank at whites-only fountains, and never did a thing about
it -- until long after Jews were killed protesting American apartheid,
helped found the NAACP and draft the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and
Voting Rights Act of 1965 (both at the Religious Action Center of
Reform Judaism). Where was Carter during all this protest against
American Apartheid? You tell me.
Deborah
coaste...@yahoo.com
> Asshole."TheZ" <T...@nospam.com> wrote in message
You're too kind, Bolt.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "Al Nakba" <williamhubb...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
Answer it, Billy. If you can't contribute intellectually just bugger
off.
Al Smith
I don't think Carter is worried about what anyone will say about him
after he is dead, or what they think about him, either, for that
matter. Why he suddenly felt the need to do a little groveling is
obscure, so maybe the real reason hasn't come out yet.
-Al-
Al Smith
He hasn't done anything to apologize for, and surely he knows that.
I'm puzzled as to why he apologized for offenses he didn't commit. I
don't think it's a trap, since Carter doesn't think that way.
-Al-
TheZ
President in US history.
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a589df5b-6c21-4a1d...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Al Smith
> Give Carter his full due, don't forget, that he was ranked the 37th worst
> President in US history.
>
True, Carter was a poor president, but he is an excellent statesman
and diplomat, a genuinely good man, and extremely intelligent.
-Al-
TheZ
Having recently returned from Israel he is now going around apologizing fror
his comments.
You just have to love a guy who sticks his foot in his mouth and apologizes.
"Al Smith" <inv...@address.com> wrote in message
news:hgrvvb$sqj$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Al Nakba
carter is just an ignorant inbred hillbilly bedwetter.
Bolt Upright
"TheZ" <Th...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ULbYm.93160$We2....@newsfe09.iad...
Bolt Upright
On Dec 22, 2:45 pm, "Bolt Upright" <HughGRect...@merde.com> wrote:
> Asshole."TheZ" <T...@nospam.com> wrote in message
You're too kind, Bolt.
Indeed. My own altruism amazes me sometimes. ;-}
coaste...@yahoo.com
coaste...@yahoo.com
Yes, there is probably more to it than appears.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Look closely at what he said in the letter.
coaste...@yahoo.com
From his WIKI biography:
Civil rights politics
"Carter declared in his inaugural speech (as Governor of Georgia) that
the time of racial segregation was over, and that racial
discrimination had no place in the future of the state. He was the
first statewide office holder in the Deep South to say this in public.
[25] Afterwards, Carter appointed many African Americans to statewide
boards and offices. He was often called one of the "New Southern
Governors" – much more moderate than their predecessors, and
supportive of racial desegregation and expanding African-Americans'
rights."
coaste...@yahoo.com
>
> > What a Hypocracy!!! , the book has already done the Dammage , Will he
> > recall the Book ? will he publish a new book with the title including
> > his apology ?
> > Will he scold the many people who use his book`s title or his words
> > against us ?
> > mirjam
>
> Fat chance, he hasn't the balls. When Jim Crow laws were in effect in
> the South, Carter dined at whites-only restaurants, used whites-only
> facilities, stayed at whites-only hotels, attended whites-only
> churches,
OnTheIssuesLogo
Jimmy Carter on Civil Rights
Established Martin Luther King Day in Georgia
Carter proclaimed January 15, 1973, Martin Luther King Day, to honor
the slain black leader. An above the advice of some of his closest
aides he hung King’s portrait in the state capitol. He had taken a
stand against prejudice in his own community of Plains in 1965 when he
and his own family were the only ones to stand up and be counted in a
vote for the admission of blacks to his church. For that, he was
boycotted, his children were beaten, and their cars were pelted with
stones.
Source: How Jimmy Won, by Kandy Stroud, p. 12 Jan 1, 1997
NefeshBarYohai
> "NefeshBarYohai" <tach...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c47b47bd-9633-44f3...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 21, 7:40 pm, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 12/21/2009 10:29 PM, tdny wrote:
>
> > >http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3823324,00.html
>
> > > Carter apologizes for 'stigmatizing Israel'
>
> > > Former US president offers US Jewish community heartfelt apology for any
> > > contribution he may have had to Jewish
> > > nation's negative image
>
> > > Yitzhak Benhorin
> > > Published: 12.21.09, 22:54 / Israel News
>
> > Why would Carter suddenly start kissing Zionist ass?
>
> > -Al-
>
> Good question. Carters a fuckner and we won't accepty his apology.
>
> The scizophrenic community?
> The "voices"?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
By we I mean the people that aim at you.
NefeshBarYohai
> On Dec 21, 11:42 pm, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
>
> > What a Hypocracy!!! , the book has already done the Dammage , Will he
> > recall the Book ? will he publish a new book with the title including
> > his apology ?
> > Will he scold the many people who use his book`s title or his words
> > against us ?
> > mirjam
>
You don't like her because she is intellectually, morally, spiritually
and normally superior to you, because you are a candy-ass.
NefeshBarYohai
>
> - Show quoted text -
Carter is really a misfit. His poor wife turned into a public alchy
living with that dipshit.
NefeshBarYohai
You can't in truth call me a racist. I've had sexual intercourse with
black women. From what you wrote I doupt that Carter has ever sampled
the Negroid race.
NefeshBarYohai
>
> - Show quoted text -
Heh, what the hell does everyone have against Hillbillies? On my
father’s side back in the 1800's our Hillbilly ancestors lived with
grandma Tuffs in Kentucky. The story goes that one day one of grandma
Tuff’s nigger bucks got out of line and she lassoed him and dragged
him all over the farm while she was on horseback.
You know what Marty Robbins sings in his song about the Alamo where
there were a whole mess of Hillbillies?
Santa Anna came prancin' on a horse that was black as the night.
He sent an officer to tell Travis to surrender.
Travis answered with a shell and a rousin' rebel yell.
Santa Anna turned scarlet: "Play Degüello," he roared.
"I will show them no quarter, everyone will be put to the sword."
dsharavi
wrote:
> On Dec 22, 7:15 pm, dsharavi <dshara...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 21, 8:42 pm, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
>
> > > What a Hypocracy!!! , the book has already done the Dammage , Will he
> > > recall the Book ? will he publish a new book with the title including
> > > his apology ?
> > > Will he scold the many people who use his book`s title or his words
> > > against us ?
> > > mirjam
>
> > Fat chance, he hasn't the balls. When Jim Crow laws were in effect in
> > the South, Carter dined at whites-only restaurants, used whites-only
> > facilities, stayed at whites-only hotels, attended whites-only
> > churches,
>
> OnTheIssuesLogo
>
> Jimmy Carter on Civil Rights
>
> Established Martin Luther King Day in Georgia
> Carter proclaimed January 15, 1973, Martin Luther King Day, to honor
> the slain black leader.
MLK was born in Atlanta; Atlanta was the first city to designate MLK
Day as a paid holiday for city employees (1971). Illinois was the
first state to adopt MLK Day as a state holiday (1973). Raygun signed
it into law as a federal holiday in 1983. Georgia celebrated it as a
federal holiday for the first time in 1986.
Deborah
dsharavi
wrote:
It was still years after Jews were killed protesting American
apartheid, helped found the NAACP and draft the Civil Rights Act of
1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965 (both at the Religious Action
Center of Reform Judaism). Where was Carter during these fights?
Serving in the Georgia Senate, then running for governor of Georgia, a
race which he lost.
Deborah
dsharavi
wrote:
> On Dec 22, 10:38 am, "TheZ" <T...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > I doubt that, probably did it to get free booze for Billy-Bob down at the
> > peanut farm.
>
> Said by the brilliant cosmopolitan, "TheZ", for whom James Earl
> Carter's resume is not up to standard: you know, Naval Academy,
> Nuclear Engineering degree, nuclear submarine duty as an officer,
Carter served on surface ships and on diesel-electric submarines in
the Atlantic and Pacific fleets. As a junior officer, he completed
qualification for command of a diesel-electric submarine. He applied
for the US Navy's fledgling nuclear submarine program run by then
Captain Hyman G. Rickover. Rickover's demands on his men and machines
were legendary, and Carter later said that, next to his parents,
Rickover had the greatest influence on him.
Carter's ultimate goal was to become Chief of Naval Operations. Carter
felt the best route for promotion was with submarine duty since he
felt that nuclear power would be increasingly used in submarines.
During service on the diesel-electric submarine USS Pomfret, Carter
was almost washed overboard. After six years of military service,
Carter trained for the position of engineering officer in submarine
USS Seawolf, then under construction. Carter completed a non-credit
introductory course in nuclear reactor power at Union College starting
in March 1953. This followed Carter's first-hand experience as part of
a group of American and Canadian servicemen who took part in cleaning
up after a partial nuclear meltdown at Canada's Chalk River
Laboratories reactor in 1952.
Upon the death of his father, James Earl Carter, Sr., in July 1953,
Lieutenant Carter immediately resigned his commission, and he was
discharged from the Navy on October 9, 1953. This cut short his
nuclear powerplant operator training, and he was never able to serve
on a nuclear submarine, since the first boat of that fleet, the USS
Nautilus (SSN-571), was launched on January 17, 1955, over a year
after his discharge from the Navy.
[flush H's irrelevant personal insults]
Deborah
dsharavi
>
> > > in a Jewish area!!!
>
> > <chuckle>
>
> > > And here I thought it was because Obama
> > > was leaning on him - it's actually worse!!
> > > Susan
>
> > Howzit worse?
>
> I think that it's one thing to obey the leader of your party
> & your country - it's another to whore yourself out for
> personal (if a generation or 2 removed) gain
> Susan
Ah, but has Carter apologised for the rabbit yet?
JIMMY CARTER AND THE KILLER RABBIT
Say what you will about Bill Clinton's PR problems, though, Jimmy
Carter was in a class by himself. Nice man, but he was one president
whose image a couple accusations from bimboes would have probably
improved.
The rabbit incident happened on April 20 while Carter was taking a few
days off in Plains, Georgia. He was fishing from a canoe in a pond
when he spotted the fateful rabbit swimming toward him. It was never
precisely determined what the rabbit's problem was. Carter, always
trying to look at things from the other guy's point of view, later
speculated that it was fleeing a predator. Whatever the case, it was
definitely a troubled rabbit. "It was hissing menacingly, its teeth
flashing and nostrils flared and making straight for the president," a
press account said.
The Secret Service having been caught flatfooted--I'll grant you an
amphibious rabbit assault is a tough thing to defend against--the
president did what he could to protect himself. Initially it was
reported that he had hit the rabbit with his paddle. Realizing this
would not play well with the Rabbit Lovers Guild, Carter later
clarified that he had merely splashed water at the rabbit, which then
swam off toward shore. A White House photographer, ever alert to
history's pivotal moments, snapped a picture of the encounter for
posterity.
Good thing, too. Carter's own staff was skeptical when he told the
rabbit story back at the White House. Some ventured the opinion that
rabbits couldn't swim, didn't attack people, and sure weren't about to
take on a sitting president, even if it was Jimmy Carter. Miffed,
Jimmy ordered up a print of the aforementioned photo, but this failed
to resolve the issue. The picture showed the president with his paddle
raised, and there was something in the water, "but you couldn't tell
what it was," an anonymous staffer was quoted as saying. The average
politician would have said, goddamit, I'm president of the United
States and I say it was a rabbit. But Carter was not that kind of guy.
He ordered a blowup made, establishing at last that his attacker was,
well, a bunny, or "swamp rabbit," to use press secretary Jody Powell's
somewhat fiercer sounding term.
OK, not one of the shining moments of Carter's career, but so far not
a major train wreck, inasmuch as nobody outside the White House knew
anything about it. Jody Powell took care of that problem the following
August when he told the rabbit story to Associated Press reporter
Brooks Jackson over a cup of tea. Powell ought to have known that you
cannot tell anything to reporters in August because there is nothing
else to write about and they will make any fool thing into a front
page scandal. Which is exactly what happened. The Washington Post put
the bunny story on page one complete with a cartoon takeoff of the
famous "Jaws" movie poster entitled "Paws." The media ran with the
story for a week, the worst aspect from Carter's perspective
undoubtedly being the columnists, who basically all said, yeah, it's
just a rabbit, but it shows you the kind of president we've got here.
The administration refused to release the photos, although I seem to
recall that Reagan's people later found and leaked them. Carter's
subsequent drubbing at the polls was a foregone conclusion, hostage
crisis or not. Lesson for life #1: if it moves, kill it. Lesson for
life #2: if you can't kill it, for God's sake don't talk about it to
the Associated Press.
RABBIT REDUX
Dear Cecil:
I have a theory that should put to rest this President Carter/killer
rabbit thing once and for all. I propose that the president's
antagonist was not a rabbit but a nutria (Myocastor coypus). The
world's largest rodent, the nutria is semiaquatic with webbed hind
feet and is very aggressive. Native to South America and valued for
its durable fur, the nutria was introduced into the southern United
States in the last century and quickly became a well-established pest
species. A partially submerged nutria (a lightning-fast swimmer) would
look very similar to a rabbit. Its lack of long, rabbitlike ears could
easily be overlooked in the fog of battle.
I hope this serves to partially rehabilitate the much-maligned 39th
president. --Thomas Canaday, San Francisco, California
Cecil replies:
You think being attacked by the "world's largest rodent" is an
improvement? Then again, it had to give Carter a taste of what it
would be like fending off Alfonse D'Amato.
Incidentally, the nutria isn't the world's largest rodent. The honor,
such as it is, goes to the capybara, 110 pounds of pure ugly. Jimmy
should count his blessings.
— Cecil Adams
Deborah
Al Nakba
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
you must think yourself quite the intellect; a university wanker..mr.
muggs was one of the worst presidents the us ever had, and you defend
the little turdstain to the hilt..
Al Nakba
>
> - Show quoted text -
read, i said ignorant and inbred. most hillbillies were not inbred nor
ignorant of necessary life skills. carter and his ilk would pumpkin on
halloween..
Al Nakba
>
> - Show quoted text -
as an o0bserver, it seems those liberal jews got kicked in the ass by
the brothers anyway..they ought to have stayed out of the whole 'civil
rights' business..
Zev
wrote:
> On Dec 21, 11:42 pm, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
> > What a Hypocracy!!! , the book has already done the Dammage , Will he
> > recall the Book ?
>
> He hasn't apologized for his book. He just feels bad because he thinks
> some Jews might feel bad. He's a Christian you know. Christians are
> "humble". Chutzpah isn't one of their characteristics.
>
> will he publish a new book with the title including
>
> > his apology ?
>
> We certainly hope he publishes another book . The situation has gotten
> far worse. And insofar as apologies go, the ball's in the Zionists'
> court. We'll see if it's reciprocated by the likes of Alan
> Dershowitz..
Funny you should mention him,
here's what Dershowitz says about him.
quote:
x-President For Sale, by Alan M. Dershowitz
Jimmy Carter is making more money selling integrity than peanuts. I
have
known Jimmy Carter for more than 30 years. I first met him in the
spring of
1976 when, as a relatively unknown candidate for president, he sent me
a
hand written letter asking for my help in his campaign on issues of
crime
and justice.
I had just published an article in The New York Times Magazine on
sentencing
reform, and he expressed interest in my ideas and asked me to come up
with
additional ones for his campaign.
Shortly thereafter, my former student Stuart Eisenstadt brought Carter
to
Harvard to meet with some faculty members, me among them. I
immediately
liked Jimmy Carter and saw him as a man of integrity and principle. I
signed
on to his campaign and worked very hard for his election.
When Newsweek magazine asked his campaign for the names of people on
whom
Carter relied for advice, my name was among those given out. I
continued to
work for Carter over the years, most recently I met him in Jerusalem a
year
ago, and we briefly discussed the Mid-East.
Though I disagreed with some of his points, I continued to believe
that he
was making them out of a deep commitment to principle and to human
rights.
Recent disclosures of Carter's extensive financial connections to Arab
oil
money, particularly from Saudi Arabia , had deeply shaken my belief in
his
integrity. When I was first told that he received a monetary reward in
the
name of Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahayan, and kept the money, even
after
Harvard returned money from the same source because of its anti-
Semitic
history, I simply did not believe it. How could a man of such apparent
integrity enrich himself with dirty money from so dirty a source?
And let there be no mistake about how dirty the Zayed Foundation is. I
know
because I was involved, in a small way, in helping to persuade Harvard
University to return more than $2 million that the financially
strapped
Divinity School received from this source.
Initially I was reluctant to put pressure on Harvard to turn back
money for
the Divinity School, but then a student at the Divinity School Rachael
Lea
Fish -- showed me the facts.
They were staggering. I was amazed that in the 21st century there were
still
foundations that espoused these views. The Zayed Centre for
Coordination and
Follow-up - a think-tank funded by the Sheikh and run by his son
hosted
speakers who called Jews "the enemies of all nations," attributed the
assassination of John Kennedy to Israel and the Mossad and the 9/11
attacks
to the United States' own military, and stated that the Holocaust was
a
"fable." (They also hosted a speech by Jimmy Carter.) To its credit,
Harvard
turned the money back. To his discredit, Carter did not.
Jimmy Carter was, of course, aware of Harvard's decision, since it was
highly publicized. Yet he kept the money. Indeed, this is what he said
in
accepting the funds: "This award has special significance for me
because it
is named for my personal friend, Sheik Zayed bin Sultan al-Nahyan."
Carter's
personal friend, it turns out, was an unredeemable anti-Semite and
all-around bigot.
In reading Carter's statements, I was reminded of the bad old Harvard
of the
1930s, which continued to honor Nazi academics after the anti-Semitic
policies of Hitler's government became clear. Harvard of the 1930s was
complicit in evil. I sadly concluded that Jimmy Carter of the 21st
century
has become complicit in evil. The extent of Carter's financial support
from,
and even dependence on, dirty money is still not fully known.
What we do know is deeply troubling. Carter and his Center have
accepted
millions of dollars from suspect sources, beginning with the bail-out
of the
Carter family peanut business in the late 1970s by BCCI, a now-defunct
and
virulently anti-Israeli bank indirectly controlled by the Saudi Royal
family, and among whose principal investors is Carter's friend, Sheikh
Zayed. Agha Hasan Abedi, the founder of the bank, gave Carter
"$500,000 to
help the former president establish his center...[and] more than $10
million to Mr. Carter's different projects."
Carter gladly accepted the money, though Abedi had called his
bank-ostensibly the source of his funding-"the best way to fight the
evil
influence of the Zionists."
BCC isn't the only source: Saudi King Fahd contributed millions to the
Carter Center- "in 1993 alone...$7.6 million" as have other members of
the
Saudi Royal Family. Carter also received a million dollar pledge from
the
Saudi-based bin Laden family, as well as a personal $500,000
environmental
award named for Sheikh Zayed, and paid for by the Prime Minister of
the
United Arab Emirates.
It's worth noting that, despite the influx of Saudi money funding the
Carter
Center, and despite the Saudi Arabian government's myriad human rights
abuses, the Carter Center's Human Rights program has no activity
whatever in
Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have apparently bought his silence for a
steep
price.
The bought quality of the Center's activities becomes even more clear,
however, when reviewing the Center's human rights activities in other
countries: essentially no human rights activities in China or in North
Korea, or in Iran, Iraq,the Sudan, or Syria, but activity regarding
Israel
and its alleged abuses, according to the Center's website.
The Carter Center's mission statement claims that "The Center is
nonpartisan
and acts as a neutral party in dispute resolution activities." How can
that
be, given that its coffers are full of Arab money, and that its focus
is
away from significant Arab abuses and on Israel's far less serious
ones?
No reasonable person can dispute therefore that Jimmy Carter has been
and
remains dependent on Arab Saudi Arabia .
Does this mean that Carter has necessarily been influenced in his
thinking
about the Middle East by receipt of such enormous amounts of money?
Ask
Carter. The entire premise of his criticism of Jewish influence on
American
foreign policy is that money talks.
It is Carter-not me-who has made the point that if politicians receive
money
from Jewish sources, then they are not free to decide issues regarding
the
Middle East for themselves.
It is Carter, not me, who has argued that distinguished reporters
cannot
honestly report on the Middle East because they are being paid by
Jewish
money. So, by Carter's own standards, it would be almost economically
"suicidal" for Carter "to espouse a balanced position between Israel
and
Palestine."
By Carter's own standards, therefore, his views on the Middle East
must be
discounted . It is certainly possible that he now believes them.
Money,
particularly large amounts of money, has a way of persuading people to
a
particular position.
It would not surprise me if Carter, having received so much Arab
money, is
now honestly committed to their cause. But his failure to disclose the
extent of his financial dependence on Arab money, and the absence of
any
self reflection on whether the receipt of this money has unduly
influenced
his views, is a form of deception bordering on corruption.
I have met cigarette lobbyists, who are supported by the cigarette
industry,
and who have come to believe honestly that cigarettes are merely a
safe form
of adult recreation, that cigarettes are not addicting and that the
cigarette industry is really trying to persuade children not to smoke.
These
people are fooling themselves (or fooling us into believing that they
are
fooling themselves) just as Jimmy Carter is fooling himself (or
persuading
us to believe that he is fooling himself).
If money determines political and public views -as Carter insists
"Jewish
money" does -then Carter's views on the Middle East must be deemed to
have
been influenced by the vast sums of Arab money he has received. If he
who
pays the piper calls the tune, then Carter's off-key tunes have been
called
by his Saudi Arabian paymasters. It pains me to say this, but I now
believe
that there is no person in American public life today who has a lower
ratio
of real [integrity] to apparent integrity than Jimmy Carter.
The public perception of his integrity is extraordinarily high. His
real
integrity, it now turns out, is extraordinarily low. He is no better
than so
many former American politicians who, after leaving public life, sell
themselves to the highest bidder and become lobbyists for despicable
causes.
That is now Jimmy Carter's sad legacy.
Author Biography: Alan M. Dershowitz is the Felix Frankfurter
professor of
law at Harvard Law School and author of The Case for Israel.
Bolt Upright
"Al Nakba" <william...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:c4aab8c4-c51d-48cc...@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
And what are your qualifications that would lead us to even believe that you
were worthy to tie Jimmah's shoes?
You certainly have never posted any evidence of anything beyond mindless
barbs.
dsharavi
NY Daily News
To see Jimmy Carter's true allegiances, just follow the money
By Lloyd Greif
Saturday, April 26th 2008, 7:39 PM
In embracing Hamas last week in direct defiance of the wishes of
Congress and the President, ex-President Jimmy Carter raised the
question of why he was granting precious prestige and credibility to
an organization the U.S. government has designated a "foreign
terrorist organization" since 1995.
If he was hoping to rekindle a flagging peace process, Carter's trip
was doomed to failure; Hamas remains committed to the destruction of
the state of Israel. So does this trip merely reflect a tremendous
lack of judgment on Carter's part?
Perhaps the answer is more complicated. You see, the Carter Center,
the ex-President's not-for-profit research and activist organization,
has prospered over the years as a direct result of Arab largesse. Many
of these "charitable" interests support Islamic fundamentalism and are
vehemently anti-Israel.
The full extent of these connections is unknown because the amount and
source of the Carter Center's funding is not public. But from various
news reports and press releases, one can begin to sketch a very
troubling picture.
For example, Saudi Arabia, the source of 15 of the 19 plane hijackers
on 9/11 and whose royal family has funded terrorism outside the
kingdom, has channeled tens of millions of dollars into the Carter
Center over the years. In 1993 alone, the late King Fahd gifted $7.6
million, while more recently, the king's nephew, Prince Alwaleed Bin
Talal, donated at least $5 million to the Carter Center. The Carter
Center has a $36 million annual budget; these amounts are hardly
insignificant to its ongoing operations.
Another million-dollar-plus backer is Sultan Qaboos sin Said, monarch
of Oman. Considerable financial support comes from the United Arab
Emirates as well.
There's more. In 2001, Carter received the $500,000 Zayed
International Prize for the Environment and, the following year,
praised the efforts of the Abu Dhabi-based Zayed Center for
Coordination and Follow Up.
The Zayed Center has repeatedly hosted anti-Semitic Holocaust deniers,
supported terrorism and asserted that there is an international
conspiracy of Jews and Zionists for world domination, and that a
Jewish-American conspiracy perpetrated the atrocities of 9/11.
It would seem that all of this money is not without its influence.
Contrast Carter's relentless criticism of Israel, the most modern and
democratic country in the Middle East, to his appreciation of such
authoritarian countries as the UAE, which he described as an "almost
completely open and free society."
Whether the United States can or should interrupt this stream of
funding to Carter's operations, it at the very least should not
supplement it.
Yet - believe it or not - the United States government itself has been
providing millions of dollars to the Carter Center over the years.
Representative Joe Knollenberg (R-Mich.) estimates that the center
received $19 million in federal funding since 2001 alone, and has
called for passage of a bill that would immediately cut off all
federal financing for the center.
Carter is free to travel around the world, stir up trouble, and cheer
on terrorists and terrorist sympathizers. But U.S. taxpayers should
not help him do this. And Carter should finally come clean and
disclose the amounts and sources of all foreign funding for his
center.
Just as the American public has a right to know whether a scientist
researching the root causes of global warming is being funded by major
oil companies, we should know who is supporting Carter's lobbying
efforts to bring "peace" to the Middle East.
It is indeed a sad day in American history when a former President
lowers himself to becoming a propaganda tool for terrorists bent on
harming our country and the democratic principles by which we live -
and we cannot even discover who is paying his bills.
Greif is president & CEO of Greif & Co., an investment bank, and a
director of the Los Angeles Economic Development Corporation.
Deborah
coaste...@yahoo.com
You know what his attitude was in 1965. I've told you. He was no
racist. He and his family stood up to it locally. What more do you
want? The Jewish kids who helped lead the Civil Rights Movement were
heroes. No doubt about it. Why does their heroism somehow make Carter
a bad person? You reason in the strangest and most unpleasant ways.
You have no basis for defaming Carter on this issue. That he wasn't in
a particular movement that other people were in means nothing.
>
> Deborah
coaste...@yahoo.com
So that makes him a bad man, eh?
coaste...@yahoo.com
Contribute or bugger off, idiot.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Transcript of President Jimmy Carter's Meeting with the Foreign
Affairs Committee of the Israeli Knesset
June 15, 2009
Committee Chair: Good morning. Mr. President, I would like to welcome
you and thank you for accepting our invitation to appear before the
Knesset committee on Foreign Relations and Defense. We know you have
contributed much to the historic event, signing the peace treaty with
Israel and Egypt and we have on my left, the Egyptian ambassador who
is living proof of the success of this historic event and we have
celebrated this year the 30th anniversary of the peace treaty. It is
no secret, Mr. President, that we not only share your commitment and
devotion to the peace process (inaudible) Mr. Begin said on your first
visit to the Israeli Knesset on March 12 1979, "We have a beautiful
democracy," and you will be witness to democracy today. This is the
meaning of Knesset, the meaning of parliament, and we have many views
around this table. I think that most of the people here, maybe most
Israelis were, to say the least, frustrated with some of your remarks
about the Palestinian issue but respect your vision, commitment and
love for the state of Israel, and this is why we felt we have to
listen to you and also to share our feelings and thoughts with you
today. You are the first former American President visiting this
committee and we look forward to a fruitful discussion.
President Carter: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I am deeply
honored and grateful for a chance to appear before this distinguished
group. I know that having been president of the US and dealt with the
Congress that this committee is certainly the highest level of public
service that can be expended in this great democratic nation. And I
remember vividly coming here. I looked at my notes from that period,
and I did appear with this committee 30 years ago in preparation for
my visit later to the Knesset. I don't remember you or anyone else
here but I remember your mother very distinctly. (laughter) You
mentioned that I appeared before a democratic body, and after your
mother's comments – (Chair: she was shouting), she didn't need a mic –
Mr. Begin turned to me and said "This is real democracy in action." I
hope you'll giver her my personal best regards. In many ways she
reminds me of my own mother who expressed her views without restraint
and never backed down from her deep personal beliefs, philosophically
and politically.
Very briefly, I come here with no authority, but just representing The
Carter Center, which we established after I left the White House, my
wife and I have been the leaders of it ever since. We have a number of
projects around the world, at this time in 71 nations. Preeminent
consideration is bringing good health to starving, destitute, poverty
stricken and forgotten people. It's not an accident that 35 of those
nations are in Africa, and my wife and I go there quite often. She's
the world's foremost proponent of mental health, and she deals with
this problem all over in many nations. Another very important aspect
of our life at The Carter Center is the monitoring of elections. We
only go to countries that have a problem with their election or
challenge to the results of their election. We just completed this
past week our 76th election observation mission in Lebanon. We had 60
people there, including my wife and my son, and we went to all parts
of the country, and the election turned out quite well. It was honest,
fair and open, and the results were accepted by the winners and the
losers gracefully. After that we drove from Beirut to Damascus. I met
with the president of Syria, whom I've known since he was a college
student in London; as a matter of fact he was studying to be an
ophthalmologist and surprisingly became the president of Syria. And
then after that as I always do lately when I'm in Damascus, I took an
opportunity to meet with the leaders of Hamas, with their politburo:
one is a physicist – that's s my background – one is a medical doctor,
one is an economist, one is an accountant. They speak very frankly
with me and I try to use their influence for promoting peace between
the Palestinian community in general and Israel. The last time I was
there my main hope was to get them to help me deliver a letter to
Gilad Shalit. They agreed to do so and I was able to deliver that
letter, and also to get a letter from him to his parents. So they have
ultimate responsibility for the policies of Hamas.
Since we've been here we've had a chance to meet with a number of
people, I won't go down the list, but yesterday I was able to go and
visit a group of settlers, as they call themselves. The mayor of Gush
Etzion was very nice to me and had a group there, and I was honored to
meet with them. Tomorrow I'll be going to Gaza, I'll be making a
speech at the graduation exercise of young children who are being
trained by the United Nations Relief and Welfare Agency (UNRWA).
Following that I'll be meeting with the Hamas leaders in Gaza.
Following that I will be going back home, finally. My wife and son
had to go back after the election in Lebanon.
I come here to meet with you with great appreciation. My own hope is
that we can see a repetition under the leadership of our new president
and your leaders of what happened 30 years ago when I first became
president of the United States. As you well remember, Anwar Sadat was
looked upon as the greatest opponent and terrorist in this region,
because he had been responsible for or participated in four wars in
the previous 25 years against Israel. The fourth was the October War
in 1973. I was able to induce him to be flexible on the subject, and
he later came to Israel as you know and spoke to the Knesset and gave
Menachem Begin, a great man whom I will always love as a political
brother, and together they were able to bring peace. I hope the same
thing can happen. I know we have a lot of differences about how it
should be done. I have been involved on the perimeter of the effort,
ever since I left office. I did work to some degree on developing the
terms of the so-called Geneva Accords. I was the keynote speaker in
Geneva, when about 200 Israelis and 200 Palestinians came to
commemorate that proposal which is on balance to me an acceptable
proposal on how the two sides might offer an acceptable formula. I
realize that any future agreement has to be the result of detailed and
extensive negotiations, so I'm not presuming anything in the future.
But as I was in the settlement yesterday, according to the Geneva
proposals those settlements near the '67 border will remain there, and
there will be a land swap of about 2 per cent. That may or may not
suit any of you, but that's just a possibility.
So let me say again that I'm grateful to come here. I was very
pleased, personally, with the speech President Obama gave in Egypt. I
happened to be in Syria the night he made his speech, and it was well
received, at least among the Arab nations I think, and maybe many of
the people here in your great country. So those are my comments. I
would be glad – I don't know, I'm not the presiding officer here – if
you have any comments to make to me I would be glad to receive them,
and if you have any questions I would be glad to try and answer them.
Thank you again, I'm honored to be here.
Chair: [speaking in Hebrew].
Mr. Ambassador?
Egyptian Ambassador: Good morning. It's an honor for me to be here
with you, honorable members of the committee. And again I'm always
glad to be beside President Carter. For sure, it was one of my dreams
to see him, and right now I am sitting beside him in the Knesset, in
Israel. I remember when I was young, in 1977, when President Sadat
came here. I was at that time at university. After the signing of the
agreement, I was graduated from university. I don't believe that after
30 years I would be here as the Ambassador of Egypt to celebrate 30
years of the peace treaty. Sitting by President Carter is a great
honor, and it proves that through dialogue we can achieve peace. I
wish you all the best, and I hope that I will be a witness to peace
here among all Arab countries, including the Palestinians. I wish you
all the best, thank you.
Chair: [speaking in Hebrew].
Mr. [?] is a former spokesperson for the Israeli Army and is now a
member of the Knesset, but he is known by every Israeli for his public
service. He is a member of the Kadima party.
Mr. [?]: Thank you very much Mr. Chair. First of all, thank you for
coming to the Committee, it's a great honor. I would like to raise
three points with you. One deals with Iran. You were the American
president when you let the Shah of Iran fall. You said "we won't
interfere," and the Ayatollah came with this change. In retrospect, if
you look backwards, and you see the outcome today, are you happy? Do
you like, I mean, if it was still for your judgment, what's better for
Iran: the Shah, with whatever policy he had, or the present government
which, as you all know, is threatening the entire Middle East? In this
context, what do you see as the chances of stopping Iran from
acquiring nuclear weapons?
The second question deals with Hamas. I read your interview with
Haaretz on Friday when you said you are in favor of Israel negotiating
with Hamas. I would also like to know whether you are in favor of the
United States government talking to al-Qaeda and bin Laden. Which
means, are you in favor of talking to terrorists, terrorist
organizations or terrorists in general? Because you know where the
government of Israel stands, this government and the previous one.
And the third question is about the Prime Minister's speech last
night. What's your judgment? Do you think it will help Israel somehow
to promote chances for peace?
President Carter: I believe it is my privilege to take my choice of
the three questions, is that correct? (laughter) [Unidentified
speaker: "You don't have to answer all three of them."] First of all,
I was perhaps the most distressed foreigner in the world when the Shah
was overthrown. The Shah was a friend of the United States, he was a
friend of six presidents before me. He was a friend of mine, I visited
with the Shah in Tehran. After I became president he visited me. And
this brought about a tragedy for my country, and for me personally and
politically. When the American hostages were taken, it caused me all
during the year 1980 the worst months of my life. And there's no doubt
in my mind that the revolution that took place in Iran was not good
for the Iranian people. I think that answers your first question.
Your second question concerns Hamas. I never said that Israel should
negotiate with Hamas. What I said was that Israel should negotiate
with a unity government in what I call Palestine, in the West Bank and
Gaza, or Judea and Samaria, which includes Hamas. One of the elections
in which I was involved as an observer was in January 2006 when as you
know the United States approved the elections with Hamas candidates.
Israel approved that election reluctantly, and so did Fatah. It was an
honest and fair election. Hamas candidates won a majority of seats in
the Knesset. I stayed here two days longer than I had planned to try
to help form a unity government between Hamas and Fatah, but I was
unsuccessful. And then I went to meet the international Quartet in
London, I went home long enough to take a shower and change clothes,
flew immediately back to London and appealed to the Quartet to help
promote a unity government. The decision was made not to do so, and
not to let the elected members of the Palestinian authority to travel,
to convene, and since then, as you know, almost every member of the
Hamas party who won in the election have been imprisoned. A few of
them have been released. Thirty-five of them are still in Israeli
prisons because they won the election.
And so I still believe that the best approach to future substantive
peace talks, with Israel on one side and Palestinians on the other
side, is to negotiate with a unity government. The Hamas leaders have
always told me that they accept completely Abu Mazen, Mahmoud Abbas,
to be their spokesperson, since he's the head of the PLO. And as you
know the PLO is the only organization that Israel recognized
officially as representing the Palestinians, not the Palestinian
Authority. And Hamas has also always announced publicly and permitted
me to announce that they would accept any agreement that is reached
between Abu Mazen and your prime minister provided it's submitted to
the Palestinians in a referendum and is approved. So I think that the
involvement of Hamas is necessary, and I know that many members of
Hamas are not averse to accepting Israel as a neighbor in a future
peace.
As far as the third question, the speech of the prime minister last
night, I watched it very carefully. I think it raised many new
obstacles to peace. I appreciated what he had to say about the
possibility of a two-state solution, so-called. The two other
statements that were included in President Obama's speech was "no
expansion of settlements" -- my interpretation of the prime minister's
speech is that there would be expansion of settlements. The other item
raised by President Obama was that Jerusalem should be shared, and I
interpreted from the prime minister's speech last night that that was
not acceptable. That's his privilege of course. He also announced, I
think, in a departure from previous prime ministers, that the Arab
countries would have to acknowledge that this is a Jewish state. This
has not been a demand in the past. [Questioner: Wasn't it?]. Not for
the Arab countries to say this. The Arab nations with whom – and I
meet with their leaders quite often – are perfectly willing to
acknowledge Israel's right to exist within the so-called '67 borders,
that might be modified. And they reserve for Israel the right for you
to call yourself a Jewish state. They maintain that with 20 percent of
your population being Arabs, that they cannot acknowledge Israel to be
exclusively a Jewish state.
Break in Recording….
Question: I would like to ask you a question related to the United
Nations' two refugee organizations. One is UNHCR, which seems to be a
very bad organization because it does not keep any refugees… They lost
all their refugees. UNRWA, seems to be a very successful organization
because they grow all the time. They started with 500,000 [in 1948]
now they have maybe 4 million… why don't we have UNRWA to treat maybe
all the refugees in the world? You will have hundreds of millions of
refugees! (laughter) And the other question came to me… and please
don't think I'm impolite. There was a very strong [article] written
about you by Alan Dershowitz who wrote a lot of things about money
that was donated to your foundation by Arab states. I think your
meeting with Hamas or Hezbollah is legitimizing these organizations. A
previous president of the United States… these terrorist
organizations… would you be able to say how much money was donated by
Arab funds… and how can we be sure that this didn't influence your
judgment on the conflict here?
President Carter: I'll try to answer both of your questions. I can't
answer the first one because I can't speak for the United Nations. I
don't know why they'd have two organizations and why UNRWA and the
High Commission on Refugees (UNHCR) are different and necessary. You
probably know more about it than I. I'll be going to Gaza tomorrow as
a guest, you might say, of the United Nations Relief and Welfare Agency
—UNRWA—because they are in the process of educating over 200,000
children in Gaza and I'll be going to a human rights graduation, but I
can't answer the first question. The second question is this: I don't
know Alan Dershowitz. I have seen him once at a meeting in Israel in
2006 when he was in the back of the room. I made a speech at Herzeliya
conference and he asked me a question from across the room. I'd never
seen him before or since. But his allegations are false. Not because
he's lying, but because he didn't have all the information.
I checked on this question about our receipt of funds from the Arab
world. The Carter Center has a budget that I have to raise personally,
of about $40 million a year to finance our humanitarian programs, most
of which goes to health care, which would be interesting to you. In
the third world, we deal with diseases only that the World Health
Organization (WHO) calls "neglected tropical diseases." You would be
familiar with them; most of the people here would not. This includes
trachoma, lymphatic filariasis, schistosomiasis, dracunculiasis, and
onchocerciasis. So, that's where almost all of our money goes. The
total amount—the percentage of money that has ever come to The Carter
Center from all Arab nations has been 2.3 percent of our total budget.
We receive a much greater percentage of that, as you would well
imagine, from the American Jewish community. And if you balance them,
we would be much more inclined to go against the Arabs. But that
doesn't affect my policies or my actions. I would be glad to give you
the exact figures, which I believe were in my latest book, but I'll be
glad to send you the exact figures of all the contributions that have
ever been received by the Carter Center. But it would be a very small
percentage from the Arab countries.
And you mentioned the fact that I meet with Hamas and Hezbollah and
legitimize them. I've never met with Hezbollah, so I'm not
legitimizing Hezbollah. I never met with Hamas leaders in 2006 until
after they were elected members of the Palestinian parliament. This
was contrary to my policy, because I generally try to meet with all
the major political parties before an election. But in 2006, I was in
partnership with the National Democratic Institute as an observer in
the elections. They have received almost all of their money from the
U.S. government, and one of their requirements was that we not meet
with Hamas before the election, so I had to comply with that. I did
not meet with Hamas before the election. I only met with Hamas after
the election, when they had won a majority of the seats. And so I
didn't legitimize them. I figured that they were legitimized by the
vote of their own people, given the majority in the polls. I think
it's important for someone who is interested in peace to at least
provide communication with Syria—we don't have a U.S. ambassador to
Syria now—and also to meet with Hamas, who I think has to play a role
in the future Palestinian Authority and, ultimately in a peace
agreement with Israel. I'm not apologizing; I'm trying to explain my
position.
Question: Mr. President, I would like to welcome you. I would like to
mention the biggest… of all the issue of Iran. I personally believe
that Iran is trying to buy time and so far they have been very
successful and are very close to achieving nuclear capability. And
having the example of North Korea… more than a few times negotiation
were tried. Having this result, my question is, will U.S. negotiations
not be successful… I believe they should be very short, in terms of
months, not in terms of years. What is your personal assessment of
Iran as the next step that the U.S. should take? The second issue is
Hamas. You mentioned the PLO and Hamas and the formal negotiations
between Hamas and the PLO. So far Hamas continues to support terror… I
believe that they need one government, one law, one "gun" or it will
be impossible to negotiate. Those in the West Bank and Gaza, it is
very important to explain to them that without having these two
elements implementing within the Palestinian side, it's really
impossible to negotiate with members of the Palestinian Authority…
without having one government, one "gun" it would be impossible.
President Carter: Well, the Iranian issue is one that's very
difficult. As I said in an earlier response, I have more grief
probably causing my defeat for re-election from the hostages being
held by Iran. I personally pray that Iran never has a nuclear weapon.
I believe that's a deep commitment, and Obama also has made it plain
that that's one of the goals of the United States. The Iranians, as
you know, are members of the group that have adopted the Non-
Proliferation Treaty. There are four countries that have not, as you
know: India, Pakistan, Israel, and lately, North Korea. North Korea
was a signatory of the Non-Proliferation Treaty until recently, when
they disavowed it. Iran, so far, is in compliance with the Non-
Proliferation Treaty. I helped to initiate many aspects of it and I
know it almost by heart. They have a right, as all countries -
signatories - do to develop and enrich uranium for peaceful purposes.
That is easy to say. The next step is, what are they going to use
there and enrich the uranium for? Their highest authority, Ayatollah
Khameini, swears, I presume before God, that they will not use their
rich uranium for nuclear weapons.
Audience member: Do you believe him?
President Carter: I'm not saying I believe him, I'm just telling you
that this is what they say, that it is against their religion. No one
in the western world believes it. I'm not saying I believe it, but
that opens up an avenue for a possible resolution of this problem. If
they can be put in a posture of cooperation with the United States,
instead of confrontation with the United States, then it may be
possible to negotiate an agreement which would require Iran to have
unlimited, unrestricted supervision by the IAEA. This would not
require any loss of face or embarrassment to the Iranian leaders,
because they could do it and say, "We have always felt this way. We
have always been against weapons. We are glad for the IAEA to come in
and assure, with intense observation of their uranium cylinders, that
they are not moving toward weapons." However, if there is no such
accommodation, and the Iranians are confronting the United States and
others, then there is no motivation for them to permit international
inspections from the IAEA to ensure that they have complied with the
agreement. So, I think—I've talked to Obama about this, and I'm
explaining to you his position. I'm not trying to speak for him, but
his hope is that through conversations with Iran and a demonstration
of mutual respect between one nation and another, that we can reach an
agreement with Iran so that they will fulfill their obligations under
the Non-Proliferation Treaty and permit inspections to ensure that
they don't move towards a nuclear weapon.
You asked me also about Hamas, I've forgotten…(question is restated).
My information… as of yesterday is that there are no rockets coming
out of Gaza now. They know that there will be very severe retaliation
if… I think… two things to answer your question. First, Hamas has made
it clear to me publicly that they accept the PLO as a negotiating
element with Israel, and that Abu Mazen represents them in the
negotiations, and, secondly, they would like the authority of the
Palestinian Authority itself to comply and that they would accept any
successful negotiation between the PLO and Israel if it's submitted by
a referendum and approved by the Palestinian people. I'm not speaking,
confirming what they say, I'm just telling you what they said.
Question: Well, thank you, I really appreciate that, and I think all
of us are appreciating very much the fact that you are almost three
decades after leaving the presidency, and you still work at an
increasing pace in global politics, so there is some expectation for
the next decade. Live until 120, and I really wish you all the best.
I'll try to focus my question about the Arab Initiative, because I
believe it's very interesting to understand, and maybe you can share
with us your thoughts, or maybe your plan concerns the Arab
Initiative, because when you mentioned the stable situation in
Lebanon, before and after the last elections, I'm sure that we are all
aware of the fact that in Lebanon the strongest force is not the
Lebanese army, but Hezbollah troops. And in the PA, the strongest
force is not the Palestinian troops, but Hamas troops in the Gaza
Strip, well-equipped by military weapons smuggled in from Egypt into
the Gaza Strip. And even until today, nobody succeeded to block it
totally, although there is a slight improvement. And therefore when we
go backward to understand who those two arms belong to, so we arrive
to Iran. Hezbollah in the north, Hamas in the south. Are both two arms
of the Iranian body? Concerned with the conventional threat, and a
number of questioners mentioned the nuclear threat, which is a serious
issue by itself. And we do accept or are waiting to understand what's
the real steps by the superpowers in general or the US in particular,
because we say boats are safe in the port, but that's not what they
were built for. And superpowers, I think they are very safe at home,
but that's not why we call them superpowers. And once we come to Iran
threat, and you mentioned about what they're trying to express about
their plans in the future, but just to remind all of us, in 1981, Iran
sent into battlefields against Iraq children of 12 years old -
thousands of Iranian children, in order to clean fields of mines. It's
Iranian behavior and I suggest all of us take it into account when we
are thinking or talking about the future steps taken by Iran. And I
return to my question: how do you see the Arab Initiative playing a
role here in the Middle East, not only in the Israeli-Palestinian
conflict, but in the Israeli-Syrian peace treaty in the future, maybe
Lebanon in the future, because we all understand that the axis, Iran
via Iraq, via Syria, to Lebanon, it's a disaster to the Middle East
and maybe more than the Middle East, and the nuclear threat by Iran is
a disaster, not only to Israel, but to many other countries including
Arab countries. I'm sure the Egyptian ambassador can elaborate much
better than me about the threat of Iranian nuclear weapons. And here
we go back to the Arab Initiative. Do you think that initiative can
lead us forward to maybe a more productive solution, or just another
plan that is going to evaporate over the years?
President Carter: Well, first of all, I think, in answer to your
first question, about Hezbollah and Hamas weaponry, the U.S. is trying
to build up the military capability of Lebanon. We've already
delivered 10 M60 tanks and I think there are fifty others on the way.
The only restriction on U.S. military aid to Lebanon is anti-aircraft
and anything that could impede Israeli overflights, which cause the
Lebanese great distress. I was down with the UNIFIL commander on the
border, what they call the Blue Line, between Lebanon and Israel last
December, in a helicopter… and the commander was explaining to me that
there's an average of twelve Israeli overflights over Lebanon every
day, and this is a problem for them. So the U.S. is not helping
Lebanon do anything that could interfere with your overflights—either
anti-aircraft weapons or military planes. I think, though, that,
except for that, the U.S. aid is trying to build up the military
strength of the Lebanese regular forces. And you know the strong
effort that's been made here for many years with an American general
in charge. I met with him yesterday. He trains people in Jordan and
Jericho, and with the graduating class of new young security people,
very soon they'll bring the total to 2,100. And we hope—the U.S. hopes—
that they will stabilize and strengthen the capability of the PA to
counteract at least partially, as you say, what Hamas is doing.
Now, the Arab initiative. I know Senator George Mitchell well. When I
was President, he was a young private lawyer in Maine. I appointed him
U.S. District Attorney, and then, later, I appointed him the U.S.
District Judge. Then later, I took the senior Senator of Maine, Edmund
Muskie, to be my secretary of state. And Muskie arranged with the
governor of Maine to appoint George Mitchell to the U.S. Senate. He
and I have known each other a long time and I have great admiration
for him. I can tell you that both he and Obama look on the Arab
initiative as a very wonderful first step to an ultimate peace
agreement that we all hope will occur. As you know, before Obama made
his speech in Egypt, he went to Saudi Arabia to meet with King
Abdullah. His major purpose there and I'm not going to get into
secrets, its been public, was to get the Arab initiative reconfirmed,
and to let the Arabs take tangible steps to show that they are
sincere. I've talked to King Abdullah about this myself, when I was
over there last April. I think he is the leader, in many ways, of the
Arab community of nations. I think he's sincere in saying that he
wants to have diplomatic relations with Israel. And when he was asked
about trade, commerce, and visitation, he said, "We'll treat Israel
just like we do each other. Just like I do other Arab countries.
That's a promise." It's predicated, though, on the same principles
that you know have been expressed by the International Quartet and by
the Geneva initiative that I mentioned earlier that has no official
status, and they have been expressed in the United Nations in
Resolutions 242, 338, 194, and so forth, which, early on, Israel
accepted, and which Menachem Begin reconfirmed in the Camp David
Accords where he signed and reconfirmed U.N. Resolution 242. So, I
don't see any incompatibility between the U.N. resolutions and the
Quartet's recommendations, or the roadmap and the Arab initiative. It
calls for Israel to withdraw from occupied territories—it doesn't say
"the," just "occupied territories—and to give the Palestinians full
autonomy. And, also at the Camp David Accords, Prime Minister Begin
committed, and the Knesset approved, by an 85% vote, the withdrawal of
Israeli military and political forces from the West Bank, or Judea and
Samaria. These are the basic international principles that the U.S.
espouses, and those will be the framework, at least, of an agreement.
But everybody knows that the final agreement would have to be
completely accepted by the PM of Israel and confirmed by the Knesset.
So all these hopes and dreams we know are just proposals on which
future negotiations can be predicated.
Question: (Labor) Thank you for your answers, Mr. President. I'd like
to welcome you... I was only ten years old during the Israeli-Egyptian
peace process, and we studied about it in school. So for me it's a
historical moment to be here as a member of the Israeli parliament,
and hopefully, be a part of the next peace process. I hope it won't
take thirty years longer, because, as you know, thirty years is
enough, and we must solve this problem. So, actually, I was very happy
to hear Mr. Netanyahu, for the first time, I think, saying "a
Palestinian state." I welcome him to also promoting the peace process.
I'd like to relate this to the Geneva initiative, I think the Geneva
initiative reflects to all of us that sometimes civilians and NGOs can
get together and have a lot of agreement, and maybe we can think about
our leaders as the obstacle to promoting any agreements. We must
encourage all these NGOs to work much harder to influence the decision
makers towards peace and towards agreement. I would like to ask you
about your attitude about the North Korean issues, because the eyes in
the western world and the Middle East, also, are looking forward to
the U.S. and their reaction to the nuclear weapons and process in
North Korea, and knowing that Iranian scientists were part of it. I
would like to hear your point of view on this issue.
President Carter: I have been personally involved with N. Korea, maybe
when you were too young to know. In 1994, I was convinced that North
Korea would attack South Korea if they were condemned by the U.N. and
additional punishments were imposed on them. So, with permission of
President Bill Clinton, I visited N. Korea, and I met with Kim Il-
Sung, the president and spiritual and political leader of North Korea,
worshiped by the people. My background is in nuclear physics. I was a
nuclear engineer, working under a great Jewish citizen, Admiral
Rickover. He was my mentor. Except for my father, Admiral Rickover
affected my life more than any other man. Anyway, I was sent to North
Korea because I knew nuclear engineering. While I was there, Kim Il-
Sung agreed to abandon their nuclear program and to bring back in the
IAEA inspector to stay full-time in their only small nuclear reactor.
That's where all of their weapons materials have come from since. And
we adopted this agreement. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright
visited Pyongyang, and President Clinton planned to visit Pyongyang
also in the final months of his career as President. He was unable to
do so. But anyway, when President Bush came in office, he renounced
this agreement and condemned North Korea and withdrew the agreement
that I had helped negotiate. As a result of that Kim Il-Sung's son,
Kim Jong-Il, decided to re-initiate the purification of spent nuclear
fuel from their reactor. And now they have evolved enough nuclear fuel
we believe to make seven atomic explosives. They've already exploded
one partially, and more recently exploded one that was appropriate
strength—it was good. They have enough nuclear fuel for at least five
more nuclear weapons. So I think it's a tragedy that this has
happened, and it's a threat to that entire region, with the
possibility of encouraging South Korea and Japan and others to develop
nuclear capability. It opens up an opportunity for nuclear
confrontation, and it is very serious. My hope is that we can see this
threat abandoned by North Korea. I think it's increasingly difficult
to do. But this gives a preview of what can happen if Iran follows in
the footsteps of North Korea. The North Koreans are not a people to be
underestimated. They're tough, competent, dedicated, willing to do
anything to achieve their military goals and they are proving this.
Now Iran, has much more capability to develop nuclear weapons if that
is their desire... and I don't think I need to repeat my hopes that I
expressed with the earlier question, that with good faith and the best
expectations, Iran might do what Kim Il-Sung agreed to do with me, and
that's let the IAEA inspectors come in and in an unimpeded way
examination of all of their nuclear facilities. If they will agree to
that, I think we can prevent Iran from making this possibility become
a reality.
Question: (former Ethiopian) Thank you and welcome… I wanted to
comment and ask you two questions. I'd like to know, what is your
opinion of the issue of the refugees' solution? As you know, there is
not any way for Palestinians outside the country who are asking to
come inside the country. It doesn't go together, these two solutions
[two-states and right of return?] This concerns me. Because there is a
majority in Israel for a two-state solutions, but there's a big
consensus on this in Israel on the issue of refugees. My second
question is: your Center is active in international projects. I think
that you are the peacemaker and very well known in this region. What
is your Center's way to educate these people about peace? One of the
big problems in this region is the big propaganda against Israel, anti-
Jewish activities and so there is no environment of peace in this
region, it's very difficult. So is your Center acting to educate
people on peace? Its very important. My next problem, I think we have
talked about—your meeting with Khaled Meshaal and Hamas wrote letters,
because you said you met them after they came in power, after they got
a breakthrough. But… even Hitler came in power after the democracy
elections, so we have to be very careful when dealing with
dictatorships like Hamas and Hezbollah.
President Carter: Well, to address your last question first, my own
experience with Hamas has been their participating in a purely
democratic, fair, open, transparent, safe election in January 2006.
And they were not able to serve, as you know… I don't equate them with
Hitler, but you're welcome to do so if you wish… I was involved deeply
with Yitzhak Rabin earlier and when Colonel Mengistu was in power… in
your former country. I went there with a personal mission to get
Mengistu to let Ethiopian Jews come to Israel. He had refused until I
met with him and I've been very active in Ethiopia. We have not had a
Carter Center program to educate Palestinians. We have a massive
education program in Ethiopia and other places. We've just finished
training 7,000 highly trained Ethiopian health workers, plus 30,000
women in Ethiopia—that will permit one woman for every 2,500
Ethiopians. We have a massive program in Ethiopia to deal with the
tropical diseases I mentioned earlier.
I will participate tomorrow in a ceremony for the graduating class of
children in Gaza, many of whom are children of Hamas parents. And the
main thrust of the UNRWA education has been to teach them basic human
rights. They've had to almost memorize the thirty principles of the
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and part of my speech tomorrow
will be devoted to reminding them, as graduates, that when they expect
to be treated with respect and peacefully, they should do the same
thing with people with whom they disagree. But I can't claim to you
that The Carter Center played any role in the education of these
Palestinian children.
About the refugee solution—well, that has been addressed by many
people, and I think that some of your previous PMs here have agreed on
the acceptance of a token number of refugees that might actually come
into the state of Israel. But the way that I understand the Geneva
proposal is that each one of those returnees would have to be approved
individually and personally by the government of Israel, which may
mean zero, or it may mean a few thousand. And it would have to be
equated to some degree by a formula that would apply to European
nations and to Canada and the United States. But the primary principle
is that most of them would come to what I call Palestine, that is
Judea, Samaria, or the future Palestinian state nearby—or either go to
other countries, like our own, like the United States. The vast
majority of claims by Palestinians to return would be resolved by
financial compensation. This is a part of U.N. Resolution 194, as you
may know: either return or be compensated. I have made speeches about
this and answered questions, and in the past I've always said that 12
to 14 billion dollars would be created in an international fund to be
used for this purpose… to let a balanced, non-prejudicial court to
decide in each case how much money should be paid to a family that
can't return, and let this international fund pay that fee. That would
comply with the U.N. resolution that applies to the refugees' return.
I would envision very few, if any, coming back into the nation of
Israel.
Mr. Plessner: Question: Thank you, Mr. President. As I mentioned, I
think we had the opportunity and chance to meet during your last visit
here a year ago. And I appreciate, and I think I speak for all of my
friends and colleagues here, your commitment to bringing about peace
and stability to the region. We've been hoping for it for decades, and
nobody doubts the fact that it comes from a genuine and humanitarian
motivation, and it's well appreciated.
I'd like to ask a question about how you reconcile your regional
outlook and your specific policy prescriptions about the question of
the Israeli-Palestinian issue and specifically about Hamas. This
question was raised in different shapes and forms before, but I'd like
to inquire about a different dimension. In the region today, there's
obviously a major struggle between moderates and radicals. The
radical axis obviously led by Iran, which also affected your
presidency, so you know something about it. Obviously the basic
consensus in Israel today is that we should do as much as we can to
strengthen our moderate allies, the moderate axis, the understanding
and common denominator between the different and moderate actors and,
specifically in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian issue, to try
and strengthen as much as we can the PA, and we want, to put it
simply, the West Bank to succeed and the Gaza attempt of Hamas to
fail. And, ideally, we would want you to use your political capital in
order to promote this worldview, which is important not only to
Israeli interests but to the interests of Europeans and Americans and
our allies. Another dimension to look at that is that you spoke about
democracy and you legitimized your actions vis-à-vis Hamas, or you
explained your actions vis-à-vis Hamas, in response to the question of
"Why are you legitimizing Hamas?" you said, "Well, they've been
legitimized by a democratic election." My question is, is your view of
democracy that democracy is just about being elected once, or because
democracy, as far as I understand it, is more about a political
culture of compromise, dialogue, the way you conduct yourself,
openness to deciding a certain fashion. Hamas is not democratic in
this sense, and therefore, why should you legitimize your dialogue
with Hamas on those grounds which they themselves don't accept?
Another speaker: Mr. President… I think that I want to join the MK Mr.
Plessner. I do not know better words to ask this question about your
approach towards Hamas.
Third Speaker: Labor Party: Mr. President, Mr. Ambassador, it's a
privilege and a pleasure, by the way, to have you here. And by the
way. I think that Israel owes you a great deal for having the peace
treat with Egypt and without you I do not believe that they would be
able to do so. I visited The Carter Center in Atlanta. It was very
impressive, and I would recommend that all of my colleagues to do so
in their own spare time.
Pres. Carter: They would be more than welcome.
Speaker: Now, I want to ask you about Hamas as well, but from a
different angle.
Other speaker: We want to know how you were invited, and we were not?
{laughter)
President Carter: I am extending all of you a personal invitation to
come.
Speaker: I have connections.
…I feel that because of your great experience and the things that you
did in the past all over the world, I feel that you can make a
difference vis-à-vis the release of Gilad Shalit. Now, the fact that I
feel that says nothing. I want to hear how you feel about that. If you
feel that it is possible that you can concentrate on that, you can
make a difference on the issue of Gilad Shalit.
President Carter: First of all, Hamas didn't enter the political arena
as candidates until 2005, under the approval of PM Ariel Sharon. They
sought, first of all, municipal and local elections, and they were
successful in 35% of the cities and towns of Palestine. Their taking
office was approved by Ariel Sharon, and I might say that, in general…
they performed well. They did not have corruption, they cleaned up
their city, they got the citizens to clean up their streets, the
planted vacant lots in gardens, and it was that experience as local
officials that gave them the reputation in the legislative election of
2006 of being less corrupt than Fatah. In 2006, their candidates were
permitted to seek office by PM Olmert and by President Bush and
obviously by Fatah. And they had to take an oath that they would
commit themselves to nonviolence. That was the only thing they had to
agree to, to be nonviolent. Every candidate did so. And they were
elected. I didn't have anything to do with the approval or disapproval
of the rules or regulations of the election. That was done by a very
high quality election commission, maybe the best I've ever seen in the
world—made up of judges, former presidents of universities, who didn't
want to sully their personal reputation. There was no corruption, no
cheating on the election. That's why I participate; I don't decide who
runs, who is elected, or anything. That's decided by the people who go
in and vote.
And I would say that the election was almost perfect. As far as the
Palestinians were concerned, the election was not perfect, because
those in East Jerusalem are not permitted to vote, except very few of
them. I argued this with later PM Olmert, who was mayor of East
Jerusalem when Arafat was elected in 1995. At that time, I believe,
Peres was PM. They said that they couldn't vote in East Jerusalem;
they could only mail their ballot, their votes, as foreigners to be
counted in the West Bank. I didn't agree with that, but I had to
accept. I never have any authority in an election. I never have wanted
to have any authority. We just try to observe what happens and try to
make sure that the election is honest and safe and fair. So that's my
involvement with Hamas. I didn't approve their candidacy; Ariel Sharon
did. And Olmert did.
Previous speaker: Mr. President, Hitler was also elected by democratic
election.
President Carter: And so was I. And so was I, and so were you. And
that doesn't mean that I'm Hitler, and that doesn't mean that you're
Hitler. It doesn't mean that anyone that's elected democratically—
Speaker: No, it doesn't, but democratic election doesn't explain the
terror attitude that comes from Hamas. This is the main problem.
President Carter: The point I'm trying to make, sir, is that I didn't
approve Hamas being candidates. It was your own Prime Ministers who
did so, because you obviously have control over what happens in the
West Bank.
Speaker: But you give, sir, legitimacy to the terror activity that
comes from Hamas.
President Carter: I'm not legitimizing Hamas. I don't have any
authority to legitimize anyone.
Asker of second-to-last question: The argument is that their post-
election conduct renders them undemocratic and therefore illegitimate.
President Carter: That's a judgment for you to make. I don't dispute
what you're saying. I didn't quite understand if you had a different
question?
Speaker of last question: I asked about Gilad Shalit.
President Carter: I have done as much for the Shalit family—I'm not
bragging—as anyone could possibly do, maybe as much as anyone in
Israel has done. And I've told you in the past what I did. I met with
Shalit's mother and father when I was here in April and I gave them my
word of honor that I would do the best I could to find out if their
son was alive, and they did not know if he was alive. I then went to
Cairo. The Hamas representatives who met me in Cairo would not tell me
if Shalit was alive or dead, and they denied—he wouldn't tell me if he
was even in Gaza. So that's the main reason I went from there to
Damascus. I met with the ultimate leaders of Hamas, and I told them
that this is very important to me and to the people of Israel, and
that it would be a good thing for them as far as international opinion
was concerned, if they would let me prove that Shalit was still alive.
And because of my arguments, they agreed, and they let me deliver the
letter I had in my pocket to them and they delivered it to the young
corporal, who has been there now almost exactly three years. Later, I
asked them also to let Shalit write a letter back, because there is no
proof that he's alive just for Hamas to take the letter from his
parents. When he wrote a personal letter back to his parents, Hamas
had it delivered to my office in Ramallah, and we delivered it
personally to his parents. I hope I can do the same thing on this
trip. But there's a limit to what a former president, who was
involuntarily removed from office, and who has no position in the U.S.
government, to do. I don't have any authority. I have to use my
ability to persuade people to do what's best for their interests. And
what I did in that case was to convince the Hamas leaders that it was
in their interest to let me prove that Gilad Shalit was still alive. I
can tell you personally that he is still alive now; he withstood the
bombardment of January.
Speaker: Maybe they would let you visit him?
President Carter: I would be delighted if they would. It has made it
more difficult for me—I have been very honest with you, and very
frank. I've said some things I know none of you agree with. But this
makes it more difficult when your PM says that he will open the gates
and let them have a bag of cement so that they can rebuild their
houses only if they prove that Shalit is alive. So now, if they prove
that Shalit is alive, that makes it appear as though they are
succumbing to the threats from Netanyahu. It would be much easier for
me to get proof that he's alive if Hamas didn't have to say, well, if
we do this, then we are yielding to threats from Netanyahu, but that's
a decision for him to make. I'm very gratified that he has now
appointed a representative of Israel to participate in the talks
between Hamas and Israel. We were in Egypt last week talking to Omar
Suleiman…he sent word to me, through my emissary, that nothing was
happening on the Shalit issue. But maybe now, with an Israeli
emissary, they can talk, and I pray that Shalit will be soon free.
Speaker: Mr. President, I want to thank you on behalf of each and
everyone of us.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Dec 23, 4:53 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> read more »
RabbiJoekerr
> mirjam wrote:
> > What a Hypocracy!!! , the book has already done the Dammage , Will he
> > recall the Book ? will he publish a new book with the title including
> > his apology ?
> > Will he scold the many people who use his book`s title or his words
> > against us ?
> > mirjam
>
and so are you unamerican beagle- worthless coward!
RabbiJoekerr
> On 12/21/2009 10:29 PM, tdny wrote:
>
> >http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3823324,00.html
>
> > Carter apologizes for 'stigmatizing Israel'
>
> > contribution he may have had to Jewish
> > nation's negative image
>
> > Yitzhak Benhorin
> > Published: 12.21.09, 22:54 / Israel News
>
>
> -Al-
because he's lost what little credibility he once had... his own
supporters abandoned him in droves.
RabbiJoekerr
>
> > What a Hypocracy!!! , the book has already done the Dammage , Will he
> > recall the Book ? will he publish a new book with the title including
> > his apology ?
> > Will he scold the many people who use his book`s title or his words
> > against us ?
> > mirjam
>
> the South, Carter dined at whites-only restaurants, used whites-only
> facilities, stayed at whites-only hotels, attended whites-only
> churches, drank at whites-only fountains, and never did a thing about
> it -- until long after Jews were killed protesting American apartheid,
> helped found the NAACP and draft the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and
> Voting Rights Act of 1965 (both at the Religious Action Center of
> Reform Judaism). Where was Carter during all this protest against
> American Apartheid? You tell me.
>
> Deborah
And as gov. of redneck central he refused to lift the ban against Ray
Charles which was imposed because he refused to perform at segregated
concerts. In fact he has a long history of such hypocrisy!
coaste...@yahoo.com
>
>
>
> > On Dec 21, 9:40 pm, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
> >> On 12/21/2009 10:29 PM, tdny wrote:
>
> >>>http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3823324,00.html
> >>> Carter apologizes for 'stigmatizing Israel'
> >>> Former US president offers US Jewish community heartfelt apology for any
> >>> contribution he may have had to Jewish
> >>> nation's negative image
> >>> Yitzhak Benhorin
> >>> Published: 12.21.09, 22:54 / Israel News
> >> Why would Carter suddenly start kissing Zionist ass?
>
> >> -Al-
>
> > the ZioNazi turds will smear his bones after he croaks. What most
> > current living Presidents don't seem to realize is that most Americans
> > will not even recognize their names in very few decades.
>
> I don't think Carter is worried about what anyone will say about him
> after he is dead, or what they think about him, either, for that
> matter. Why he suddenly felt the need to do a little groveling is
> obscure, so maybe the real reason hasn't come out yet.
>
> -Al-
He didn't grovel before the Knesset's Foreign Relations Committee last
June. It was an amazing performance for a man well into his eighties.
He wasn't apologizing for anything.
coaste...@yahoo.com
His credibility is greater now than when he was in the Presidency. And
it was never poor. People knew they could trust the man.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Cites please?
RabbiJoekerr
And dont forget he had to a) start at Georgia Tech because he wasnt
smart enough to enter the Academy then his father had to use all of
his influence to get him transferred over (read spread lots of money
around)
Bolt Upright
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9fc486ee-e6d9-4007...@h14g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
June 15, 2009
Mr. Ambassador?
Break in Recording�.
democracy and you legitimized your actions vis-�-vis Hamas, or you
explained your actions vis-�-vis Hamas, in response to the question of
Speaker: I have connections.
difference vis-�-vis the release of Gilad Shalit. Now, the fact that I
Quick translation:
You can believe a genuinely decent and completely honest man or you can
listen to that fucking cannibal who is trying her damndist to slander his
name with nothing but bullshit accusations and outright kies.
Your choice...
RabbiJoekerr
And dont forget he had to a) start at Georgia Tech because he wasnt
Al Smith
I don't know the answer, but I haven't heard a plausible explanation
yet.
-Al-
Al Smith
I just read a statement from Carter that it's time for Israel to
negotiate with the Palestinians -- that the Israelis said that they
would never negotiate with terrorists, but the Palestinians haven't
been a terrorist threat for a full year, so when are they going to
negotiate? All of which is true. Though it would be even more
accurate to say that the Palestinians have never been a serious
threat to Israel.
-Al-
coaste...@yahoo.com
You lie, he supervised the construction of nuclear submarines for
Admiral Hyman Rickover, the greatest Jew ever to serve in the American
military.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> explained your actions vis-à-vis Hamas, in response to the question of
Precisely. And as to her deceitful accusations about Carter's alleged
lack of sympathy for Blacks during the civil right ear, take a look at
this interview in which he speaks of his mother's influence in the
family:
http://www.cartercenter.org/documents/Larry%20King%20Live%20Transcript%20042808.pdf
Deb is immersed in deceit, but she is still far more intelligent than
Ratner.
dsha...@yahoo.com
>>>Civil rights politics
>>>"Carter declared in his inaugural speech (as Governor of Georgia) that
>>>the time of racial segregation was over, and that racial
>>>discrimination had no place in the future of the state. He was the
>>>first statewide office holder in the Deep South to say this in public.
>>>[25] Afterwards, Carter appointed many African Americans to statewide
>>>boards and offices. He was often called one of the "New Southern
>>>Governors" – much more moderate than their predecessors, and
>>>supportive of racial desegregation and expanding African-Americans'
>>>rights."
>
>>apartheid, helped found the NAACP and draft the Civil Rights Act of
>>1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965 (both at the Religious Action
>>Center of Reform Judaism). Where was Carter during these fights?
>>Serving in the Georgia Senate, then running for governor of Georgia, a
>>race which he lost.
>
<coaster132...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>You know what his attitude was in 1965.
I don't recall it personally, no.
>I've told you.
You've "told" me a lot of things. F'r instance --
You told me I made a "'filthy little big pig' comment about Al
Sharpton" which was "racist" as well as "very coarse and reflects
poorly on the quality of her upbringing, and that my "mother would be
horrified."
You told me I've "got family in israel and that's all that matters to
you."
You told me I'm "simply are thrilled by crimes against humanity so
long as Israelis are dishing it out".
You told me that I have "a bachelors degree in Jewish History" which
kept me "from getting an education."
You told me I'm an "ignorant schnorrer", as well as "abandoned and
unemployed, filled with hate", and a "failure in attaining a decent
education."
You told me "You know nothing" and "You don't know what you're talking
about" and "You know nothing".
You told me that I "once inadvisably exclaimed something like: "Don't
you just love Benny Morris?" before I "knew that he, like Pappe, is
considered a "New Historian" (23/3/08 )
You told me I "Don't ya just love Benny Morris!?" Deborah. (26/3/08)
and again,
"Don't you just love Benny Morris, Deborah?" (28/3/08), and again,
"Don't you just love Benny Morris," 31/5/08 and that I "'love him"and
that I "said it. Don't forget it."
(It's difficult to see how one can forget something one never did.
Nevertheless, you went on to tel me that I "hadn't read his book and
didn't realize that he's the NEW HISTORIAN who first confirmed the
NAKBA took place, the forced expulsion of the Palestinian people, the
"catastrophe". If you had any moral fiber you could avoid such
humiliations. " Be that as it may, you told I said.....
"Don't ya just love Benny Morris?" (Deborah)" (1/9/08) And again:
"Don't you just love Benny Morris." (Deborah) " 8/9/08.
You told me that I "famously said, "Don't you just love Benny Morris"
before having read him." (30/11/08). And again:
"Don't you just love Benny Morris?" (7/2/09) And again:
Don't you just love Benny Morris?" (29/6/09)
You told me that I "proclaimed, "Don't you just love Benny Morris?"
and "loved him before having read him." (28/11/09)
You told me that I "seldom post new content" and that my headers are
"inevitably filthy".
You told me there aren't "any actual Jews here who respect you."
You told me "You're just in your sixties."
These few of the many things you've "told" me are a few of the reasons
I take everything you "tell" me with a large dose of salt.
>He was no racist. He and his family stood up to it locally. What more do you
>want?
Is anyone saying he's a racist?
>The Jewish kids who helped lead the Civil Rights Movement were
>heroes. No doubt about it. Why does their heroism somehow make Carter
>a bad person?
Does it?
>You reason in the strangest and most unpleasant ways.
Your jumping to conclusions leaves you hanging, as usual, out on a
limb.
>You have no basis for defaming Carter on this issue.
That's pretty funny.
>That he wasn't in a particular movement that other people were in means nothing.
Carter wasn't in a nuclear submarine as an officer, either, nor did he
ever earn a "Nuclear Engineering degree", as you claimed.
A large dose of salt, as I said.
Deborah
dsha...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> Transcript of President Jimmy Carter's Meeting with the Foreign
> Affairs Committee of the Israeli Knesset
> June 15, 2009
"President" Jimmy Carter? June 15, 2009? Is this some sort of
alternate reality?
> Committee Chair: Good morning. Mr. President
Good heavens, the Knesset thinks Carter's President? But I voted for
Obama for president!
Where's President Obama? This calls for an investigation.
Deborah
dsha...@yahoo.com
> > > > > I doubt that, probably did it to get free booze for Billy-Bob down at the
> > > > > peanut farm.
>
> > > On Dec 22, 4:15 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Said by the brilliant cosmopolitan, "TheZ", for whom James Earl
> > > > Carter's resume is not up to standard: you know, Naval Academy,
> > > > Nuclear Engineering degree, nuclear submarine duty as an officer,
>
> > > Carter served on surface ships and on diesel-electric submarines
wrote:
> You lie, he supervised the construction of nuclear submarines for
> Admiral Hyman Rickover, the greatest Jew ever to serve in the >American military.
Rubbish. Carter hadn't the training nor the education. He trained for
duty aboard the USS Seawolf, the 2nd nuclear-powered submarine.
Carter's His first-hand experience was as part of an American/Canadian
group of servicemen who helped clean up after a partial nuclear
meltdown at Canada's Chalk River Laboratories reactor in 1952. His
claim to having been a nuclear physicist is apparently based on his
having taken a non-credit introductory course in nuclear reactor power
at Union College in March 1953. When his father died four months
later, Carter immediately resigned his commission and was discharged.
His resignation cut short his his NUCLEAR POWERPLANT OPERATOR
TRAINING, and he never served on a nuclear sub. The first boat of that
fleetthe first boat of that fleet was the USS Nautilus, which was
launched 17th Januuary 1955, over a year after Carter's resignation
and discharge.
"Rickover carefully selected the individuals who would enter his
nuclear submarine program. One of them was Jimmy Carter, then a young
Navy lieutenant and later president of the United States. Carter
recalls that when Rickover asked him where he had placed in his
Annapolis class, Carter replied proudly that he finished 59th out of
820. Rickover, far from being impressed, asked if he had done his
best. When Carter admitted that he hadn't always, Rickover replied,
"Why not?" Carter could give him no answer."
Deborah
dsha...@yahoo.com
> > > > What a Hypocracy!!! , the book has already done the Dammage , Will he
> > > > recall the Book ? will he publish a new book with the title including
> > > > his apology ?
> > > > Will he scold the many people who use his book`s title or his words
> > > > against us ?
> > > > mirjam
>
> > On Dec 22, 7:15 pm, dsharavi <dshara...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Fat chance, he hasn't the balls. When Jim Crow laws were in effect in
> > > the South, Carter dined at whites-only restaurants, used whites-only
> > > facilities, stayed at whites-only hotels, attended whites-only
> > > churches, drank at whites-only fountains, and never did a thing about
> > > it -- until long after Jews were killed protesting American apartheid,
> > > helped found the NAACP and draft the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and
> > > Voting Rights Act of 1965 (both at the Religious Action Center of
> > > Reform Judaism). Where was Carter during all this protest against
> > > American Apartheid? You tell me.
>
On Dec 23, 5:56 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Cites please?
ISeeing H requesting cites is always worth a laugh or two.
Deborah
dsha...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> He didn't grovel before the Knesset's Foreign Relations Committee last
> June. It was an amazing performance for a man well into his eighties.
> He wasn't apologizing for anything.
He was still bullshitting about his 'background as a physicist',
though. If Carter's a physicist, I'm Stephen Hawking, sans neuro-
muscular dystrophy.
Deborah
dsha...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> On Dec 23, 11:40 am, dsharavi <dshara...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 23, 4:53 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has Greif apologized toCarter yet?
For what, telling the truth?
Al Nakba
wrote:
> On Dec 21, 11:42 pm, mirjam <mir...@actcom.co.il> wrote:
>
> > What a Hypocracy!!! , the book has already done the Dammage , Will he
> > recall the Book ?
>
> some Jews might feel bad. He's a Christian you know. Christians are
> "humble". Chutzpah isn't one of their characteristics.
>
> will he publish a new book with the title including
>
> > his apology ?
>
> far worse. And insofar as apologies go, the ball's in the Zionists'
> court. We'll see if it's reciprocated by the likes of Alan
> Dershowitz..
>
> > Will he scold the many people who use his book`s title or his words
> > against us ?
>
> truth calls for no apologies. He wishes he could pursue the national
> interest and the interests of Israel without hurting the feelings of
> Jews. He's genuinely sorry if people's feelings are hurt. It's always
> been a very delicate operation you know to avoid hurting the feelings
> of Jews given the fact that their right wing leadership are almost
> perpetually "outraged" by something.
>
> BTW when are the Jews going to apologize for calling Jimmy Carter an
> anti-Semite and just about every other filthy thing in their lexicon?
> They were trying their best to stigmatize him and all of the growing
> millions of us who agree with him. Indeed, why should he apologize to
> people for theoretical stigmata when their leadership are nearly full
> time stigmatizers? If you are Jimmy Carter you find the answer in
> Christian doctrine.
>
>
>
> > mirjam- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Miz Lillian had the biggest pair of boobs ever seen in the state of
georgia..jimmuh and billy!
Al Nakba
> "Al Nakba" <williamhubb...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
>
> On Dec 22, 4:18 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 22, 2:48 pm, "Bolt Upright" <HughGRect...@merde.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Al Nakba" <williamhubb...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:62e548fe-532a-46da...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Dec 21, 4:34 pm, "Tilly" <paul1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > any
> > > > contribution he may have had to Jewish nation's negative image
>
> > > > Yitzhak Benhorin Published: 12.21.09, 22:54 / Israel News
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> muggs was one of the worst presidents the us ever had, and you defend
> the little turdstain to the hilt..
>
> were worthy to tie Jimmah's shoes?
> You certainly have never posted any evidence of anything beyond mindless
> barbs.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
"you should have as much respect for my work as the four buttocks
which engendered you, and for the peg of life which united them!"
Al Nakba
>
> - Show quoted text -
find some rent bhoy and have him give you a good pranging..btw, merry
syphilis and happy gonnorhea!
Al Nakba
let the no account kenyan stay on vacation..
American Eagle
one expresident disses the Jews for their actual crimes and the
ZionWeasels make up all kinds of rancid stories about him. There doesn't
appear to be even one Jew in this NG that is worth the powder to blow
itself to Hell. I suggest the idiot cunt, Debra prove her allegations or
shut the fuck up.
dsharavi
wrote:
> Precisely. And as to her deceitful accusations about Carter's alleged
> lack of sympathy for Blacks during the civil right ear,
Point to the post where I made "deceitful accusations about Carter's
alleged lack of sympathy for Blacks during the civil right ear".
> take a look at this interview in which he speaks of his mother's influence in the
> family:
> http://www.cartercenter.org/documents/Larry%20King%20Live%20Transcrip...
Result:
"Redirecting you to http://www.cartercenter.org/documents"
So? Point to the post where I made "deceitful accusations about
Carter's alleged lack of sympathy for Blacks during the civil right
ear".
> Deb is immersed in deceit, but she is still far more intelligent than
> Ratner.
And more intelligent than Hunter Watson, who has posted his heartfelt
wish that the Nazis had killed more Jews than they did, as often as I
have posted "Don't ya just love Benny Morris?"
Watson's claim that I made a "racist" remark about Al Sharpton has all
the validity of a post made by Watson describing what he feels every
time he fondles underage Mexican children.
Deborah
Deborah
Zev
wrote:
> On Dec 23, 8:41 pm, RabbiJoekerr <jokersotherm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 21, 9:40 pm, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
> > > On 12/21/2009 10:29 PM, tdny wrote:
> > > >http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3823324,00.html
> His credibility is greater now than when he was in the Presidency. And
> it was never poor. People knew they could trust the man.
Of course.
A man who can be bought, can be trusted.
Bolt Upright
"dsha...@gmail.com" <dsha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fb9bf3c9-822b-4992...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Deborah
No, you are a cannibal, sans bone in your hair.
Bolt Upright
"Al Nakba" <william...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:f6e3d606-d48b-46e6...@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
How do you finger that one, Billy? I OWE the buttocks and penis, they did me
(and hopefully themselves!) a great service. OTOH, all we get from you is
drivel, or should that be "dribble"?
All of which doesn't help document that you have any business dumping og
Jimmy Carter. That old man genuinely tries to make the world a better, more
decent and moral place. Then we have yourself with your constant inanities
and SFA else.
Pathetic.
Bolt Upright
> explained your actions vis-�-vis Hamas, in response to the question of
http://www.cartercenter.org/documents/Larry%20King%20Live%20Transcript%20042808.pdf
A retarded pigeon is far more intelligent than Ms Ratner.
Bolt Upright
"dsharavi" <dsha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2c3dcbdb-537d-4a69...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Yeah, I can read and I know that the cannibal didn't actually make the
implied accusation above, but perhaps she'd care to explain her choice of
words.
Deborah, you really do lack such virtues as shame and common decency, don't
you?
Quick translation:
You can believe a genuinely decent and completely honest man or you can
listen to that fucking cannibal who is trying her damndest to slander his
name with nothing but bullshit accusations and outright lies.
Your choice...
Deborah
coaste...@yahoo.com
Is Georgia Tech chopped liver?
coaste...@yahoo.com
> >>On Dec 22, 8:49 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> >>wrote:
> >>>From his WIKI biography:
> >>>Civil rights politics
> >>>"Carter declared in his inaugural speech (as Governor of Georgia) that
> >>>the time of racial segregation was over, and that racial
> >>>discrimination had no place in the future of the state. He was the
> >>>first statewide office holder in the Deep South to say this in public.
> >>>[25] Afterwards, Carter appointed many African Americans to statewide
> >>>boards and offices. He was often called one of the "New Southern
> >>>Governors" – much more moderate than their predecessors, and
> >>>supportive of racial desegregation and expanding African-Americans'
> >>>rights."
>
> >On Dec 23, 2:02 am, dsharavi <dshara...@hotmail.com>wrote:
> >>It was still years after Jews were killed protesting American
> >>apartheid, helped found the NAACP and draft the Civil Rights Act of
> >>1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965 (both at the Religious Action
> >>Center of Reform Judaism). Where was Carter during these fights?
> >>Serving in the Georgia Senate, then running for governor of Georgia, a
> >>race which he lost.
You've answered your own question. Good girl, Deb.
>
> On Dec 23, 3:00 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
> <coaster132...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> >You know what his attitude was in 1965.
>
> I don't recall it personally, no.
You should as I provided you with information about the church
integration incident of that year.
>
> >I've told you.
>
> You've "told" me a lot of things. F'r instance --
> You told me I made a "'filthy little big pig' comment about Al
> Sharpton" which was "racist" as well as "very coarse and reflects
> poorly on the quality of her upbringing, and that my "mother would be
> horrified."
Your mother would approve of your use of "filthy little big pig"
language about a Black man in America? Surely not. Perhaps she and I
should talk it over.
> You told me I've "got family in israel and that's all that matters to
> you."
Did I really say that? How about a cite? Well, do you and does it?
That does sound a bit unkind of me--out of context. Perhaps an al het?
> You told me I'm "simply are thrilled by crimes against humanity so
> long as Israelis are dishing it out".
That's the impression I have presently. I don't recall you ever having
said a critical word about Israeli crimes against humanity. Most of
the time you haven't been willing to admit they have taken place.
You're an anti-Palestinian racist. You almost always cover for Israeli
crimes with flat, unsupported denials. "Nope" she says.
>
> You told me that I have "a bachelors degree in Jewish History" which
> kept me "from getting an education."
I don't have a very high impression of your level of education, Deb.
Some one else here said you studied Jewish history at college. Was it
inaccurate? Tell me you studied something else and I'll apologize for
having been misled.
>
> You told me I'm an "ignorant schnorrer", as well as "abandoned and
> unemployed, filled with hate", and a "failure in attaining a decent
> education."
You're certainly filled with hate. That's characteristic of racists.
It's my personal opinion that you failed to attain a decent education,
but that is subjective. I tend to like breadth and patterns of life-
long curiosity. You don't display them so far as I can see. Had I been
inclined by your erudite charm to be more kind, that could easily have
happened. But you are neither erudite nor charming. You consistantly
attacked me in unimaginably foul fashion. I should treat you with kid
gloves? Not likely. I don't even know for sure that you're a woman so
even the vestiges of chivalry may not apply.
>
> You told me "You know nothing" and "You don't know what you're talking
> about" and "You know nothing".
Comparatively, my dear, you are an ignoramous. But they know something
so I do apologize for such mistaken zeal in the heat of battle.
> You told me that I "once inadvisably exclaimed something like: "Don't
> you just love Benny Morris?" before I "knew that he, like Pappe, is
> considered a "New Historian" (23/3/08 )
So? I have good reason to believe it. Given your disgusting flat
denials of the Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestine it would have
been ridiculous of you to say "Don't ya just love Benny Morris" had
you actually read him.
>
> You told me I "Don't ya just love Benny Morris!?" Deborah. (26/3/08)
I paraphrased you, closely, Deb. You've recently been pretending you
didn't say it. That's deceitful.
> and again,
> "Don't you just love Benny Morris, Deborah?" (28/3/08), and again,
> "Don't you just love Benny Morris," 31/5/08 and that I "'love him"and
> that I "said it. Don't forget it."
No apologies for the truth, Deb. But you're paraphrasing all the way
through here when you could simply cut and paste. I don't trust you an
inch. Who knows what you've done with the text?
>
> (It's difficult to see how one can forget something one never did.
Have you had it deleted? Haha! Well there is always the subpoena duces
tecum.
> Nevertheless, you went on to tel me that I "hadn't read his book and
> didn't realize that he's the NEW HISTORIAN who first confirmed the
> NAKBA took place, the forced expulsion of the Palestinian people, the
> "catastrophe". If you had any moral fiber you could avoid such
> humiliations. "
Well, try telling the truth about Benny Morris. You have repeatedly
denied the expulsions. You now say that when you made these denials
you had read his book? Are your denials now "inoperative"? Why not
just tell us what's going on, Deb.
Be that as it may, you told I said.....
>
> "Don't ya just love Benny Morris?" (Deborah)" (1/9/08) And again:
> "Don't you just love Benny Morris." (Deborah) " 8/9/08.
>
> You told me that I "famously said, "Don't you just love Benny Morris"
> before having read him." (30/11/08). And again:
> "Don't you just love Benny Morris?" (7/2/09)> Don't you just love Benny Morris?" (29/6/09)Hah
> You told me that I "proclaimed, "Don't you just love Benny Morris?"
> and "loved him before having read him." (28/11/09)
I have reason to believe you now have his origin of the Palestinian
Refugee Problem "revisited" volume. But I don't recall any sign that
you ever read the first one. You can disabuse me of that error. But if
you do so please explain your denials of the Naqba.
> You told me that I "seldom post new content" and that my headers are
> "inevitably filthy".
For a long time it seemed so to me. Perhaps I'm a bit cruel here. It's
hard to be even remotely generous to a person such as you. Not
inevitably. Just so often as to make a decent person nauseous.
> You told me there aren't "any actual Jews here who respect you."
I have a pretty high opinion of Jews generally. Zionist activists
excepted, perhaps, I can't believe that they would respect what you've
done here. Especially early in our "relationship". That applies to
Ratner too.
> You told me "You're just in your sixties."
You aren't in your sixties? Tell us your age and I'll be happy to make
a correction. It's impolite to ask a lady her age but then you might
be male anyway. Or so we have been told by one long time-poster
anyway.
> These few of the many things you've "told" me are a few of the reasons
> I take everything you "tell" me with a large dose of salt.
Whatever you like, Deb.
> >He was no racist. He and his family stood up to it locally. What more do you
> >want?
>
> Is anyone saying he's a racist?
In my opinion you insinuated that with your angry political slanders
of President Carter in connection with the Civil Rights Movement. You
also accused him of cowardice, repeatedly. That was absolutely
astounding.
>
> >The Jewish kids who helped lead the Civil Rights Movement were
> >heroes. No doubt about it. Why does their heroism somehow make Carter
> >a bad person?
>
It doesn't, but that was your insinuation. Where was he, you asked,
when those Jewish kids were on the barricades? Going to work every day
in the Georgia Legislature. You know damned well where he was. After
all he was roughly forty at the time. You defamed him. In fact you
essentially defame everyone opposite you here--unless they are allied
with you. You are a very nasty person, Deb. Very nasty.
>
> >You reason in the strangest and most unpleasant ways.
Obviously true, Deb. You far too often fail to tell the truth or
struggle to suppress it.
> Your jumping to conclusions leaves you hanging, as usual, out on a
> limb.
That's true about you even if someone else said it.
>
> >You have no basis for defaming Carter on this issue.
>
> That's pretty funny.
You're not laughing. You have no basis whatever. You have only one
reason for your anger with Carter. He is a high profile critic of
Israeli behavior and policy. Your default response to anyone in that
category is an attempt to stigmatize with accusations of anti-Semitism
and various other ad hominems. You've done it over and over again.
You're also a spammer.
> >That he wasn't in a particular movement that other people were in means nothing.
Why didn't you respond to that? Surely the logic isn't beyond you.
> Carter wasn't in a nuclear submarine as an officer, either, nor did he
> ever earn a "Nuclear Engineering degree", as you claimed.
His degree was apparently in physics. In his naval service that meant
nuclear engineering.
>
> A large dose of salt, as I said.
Dishonest, Deb. He supervised the construction of nuclear subs for
Hymen Rickover.
>
> Deborah
Sad Deb. I've collected your posts too. Many of them are too filthy to
reproduce. I haven't forgotten them, I assure you.
coaste...@yahoo.com
What calls for an investigation is what he says about Dershowitz's
lies.
Al Nakba
>
> - Show quoted text -
temper, temper..
Al Nakba
>
> - Show quoted text -
he is a fuckwit by any standard, and you just want to fluff the old
boy for one last boink by the old fool..
Bolt Upright
But Dipshit, unlike your bubblehead of a self, Jimmah actually has something
to say that real people actually want to hear.Jealosy doesn't become you,
Billy.
Al Nakba
>
> - Show quoted text -
jimmuh fucked us foreign policy for years with the panama canal,
backing down to the jihad vermin, and pushing affirmative action. i;'m
sorry the damn lepus didn;t get him..
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "Al Nakba" <williamhubb...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
> But Dipshit, unlike your bubblehead of a self, Jimmah actually has something
coaste...@yahoo.com
Silencing Panamanian nationalism by giving them that Rooseveltian
relic was a brilliant move. It's been smooth as silk down there ever
since--except for that little adventure with The Pineapple.
> backing down to the jihad vermin,
I suppose you mean Iran and the hostage crisis. Tell us what he should
have done. We'll see how your theorizing holds up.
and pushing affirmative action.
Having trouble competing? Out at the elbow, down at the heel? Suck it
up, man. Use that supple mind. Go out there and conquer the world.
i;'m
> sorry the damn lepus didn;t get him..
Lepus? Are you sorry because they got you instead?
dsharavi
>>>>wrote:
>>>>>From his WIKI biography:
>>>>>Civil rights politics
>>>>>"Carter declared in his inaugural speech (as Governor of Georgia) that
>>>>>the time of racial segregation was over, and that racial
>>>>>discrimination had no place in the future of the state. He was the
>>>>>first statewide office holder in the Deep South to say this in public.
>>>>>[25] Afterwards, Carter appointed many African Americans to statewide
>>>>>boards and offices. He was often called one of the "New Southern
>>>>>Governors" – much more moderate than their predecessors, and
>>>>>supportive of racial desegregation and expanding African-Americans'
>>>>>rights."
>
>>>On Dec 23, 2:02 am, dsharavi <dshara...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>>It was still years after Jews were killed protesting American
>>>>apartheid, helped found the NAACP and draft the Civil Rights Act of
>>>>1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965 (both at the Religious Action
>>>>Center of Reform Judaism). Where was Carter during these fights?
>>>>Serving in the Georgia Senate, then running for governor of Georgia, a
>>>>race which he lost.
>
On Dec 24, 7:34 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
<coaster132...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>You've answered your own question. Good girl, Deb.
Several posts ago.You only just noticed? And put to rest, one hopes,
your bolstering of Carter's lie that he was a nuclear physicist; the
lie that he supervised construction of Rickover's nuclear navy was
entirely your own; even Carter would never have dreamt of getting away
with a whopper of those proportions.
>>On Dec 23, 3:00 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
>><coaster132...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>You know what his attitude was in 1965.
>
>On Dec 23, 11:01 pm, "dshar...@gmail.com" <dshar...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>>I don't recall it personally, no.
>You should as I provided you with information about the church
>integration incident of that year.
Try to recall, if that is possible, how I view "information" provided
by you.
>>>I've told you.
>>You've "told" me a lot of things. F'r instance --
>>You told me I made a "'filthy little big pig' comment about Al
>>Sharpton" which was "racist" as well as "very coarse and reflects
>>poorly on the quality of her upbringing, and that my "mother would be
>>horrified."
>Your mother would approve of your use of "filthy little big pig"
>language about a Black man in America? Surely not. Perhaps she and I
>should talk it over.
Perhaps you should provide the link to the exact post which will
validate your phony claim that I ever made such a statement. You've
been asked for that many, many times in the two and a half years since
you made that allegation. You've sidedodged it every time, with your
patented stock response to requests for you to back your highly
dubious claims.
A pause for an aside here, into a few of
HUNTER WATSON'S STOCK RESPONSES TO REQUESTS FOR CITES AND FACTS:
==============================
>HHW wrote:
>>You know when and where I proved you a plagiarist.
drahcir wrote:
>If you had done it, you would have posted a link to it.
"I posted the proof that you are a plagiarist. You know insist that I
do it again. Remember I DON'T RUN ERRANDS FOR YOU.
I'm not going to posts it again. "
>Since the proof doesn't exist, you can't very well
provide a link to it, can you?
"You lie. How did you first come to know from me that
you had been caught plagiarizing another's work? I even
pasted you sin into one of my posts so as to rub your pretty
little nose in it. "
-- HHW <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 9 Jan 2009 08:18:36 -0800 (PST)
Mike Smith wrote:
>Find one of my posts where I call Bush a conservative
>or refer to him as conservative. You can go back at least 7 years,
>if you want to be especially diligent.
"I WON'T RUN ERRANDS FOR LOUDMOUTHS. But
you can do this research yourself. "
-- HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com>, 8 Dec 2008 15:30:58 -0800 (PST)
drahcir wrote:
>You think that by typing "toying with you", that you can
>make anyone forget that you accused me of a contradiction
"I've accused you of lots of things: a filthy sort of
arrogance,
of having no significant life experience, of having a poor and
insufficient education, of not working for a living, of generating
awful music and parading it before the public via a High School
Orchestra, of using a Canadian e-mail account as a sock and then not
even being able to coordinate it's "personality."
"I can dredge up more if you like."
>I asked you to illustrate it, and you are doing your usual
>tapdance to avoid specifying. Yawn...
"I DONT' RUN ERRANDS FOR YOU. OR DON'T YOU RECALL."
>And now, H is going to enter blahblah mode, where he
>thinks he can inundate with stream-of-unconsciousness
>verbiage to try to distract from the contradiction that has
>yet to be specified.
-- HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com>, 23 Nov 2008 15:37:09 -0800 (PST)
"Count 1" <omnipitus2...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>you don't even try to state this as an opinion,
>you state this is a "fact".
"I'm supposed to run around trying to find something which
will please YOU? Not likely. I DON'T RUN ERRANDS FOR
ANYONE. This isn't a STEP 'N FETCHIT ROUTINE. But I'd
be very happy to actually debate you on the subject.
"it is a fact which I "find" in the sense that juries "find
facts"
even though as with a jury those facts must be drawn from
disparate evidence."
-- HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com>, 15 May 2008 13:24:35 -0700 (PDT)
"No deals, no slack, no errands, no quarter with that son of a bitch.
Just grind him down. There are lots of readers here who do not post.
That's what matters. They already know what Ratner and Deb Rosen and
Hillel are doing and that they've been doing it deceitfully. Let them
watch these filthy Neanderthals operate. "
-- HHW <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 10 Feb 2008 15:04:33 -0800 (PST)
>If you would like the message id's (there was more than one)
>of where you faded away about your lie about arabs being unable
>to purchase land in israel...
"You just lie about my not responding. It was quite elaborate
actually. Go find it. I DON'T RUN ERRANDS FOR YOU. NOT ANY. NONE."
-- HHW <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 9 Feb 2008 16:53:10 -0800 (PST)
"You can't convince me to go back through it simply because you use
the
word "lie". You do that in every post, usually more than once. Your
readers have long since come to understand your tactic. You really
only have one.
"I DON'T RUN ERRANDS FOR YOU. And besides, I'm not especially
interested in that event as the United States was neither entangled
in
it nor responsible for it.
"However, I did point out the importance of the dates of the
initiation
of Israeli ethnic cleansing in Palestine and then the expulsions in
the Arab countries.
"As I say I'm not much interested but maybe you can find
out so as to be able to further misrepresent the history of it. No
matter what you say it won't be believed."
-- HHW <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 7 Feb 2008 14:54:11 -0800 (PST)
"I'll be happy to take stands. And we can see who remains standing.
But
I DON'T RUN OFF TO DO RESEARCH FOR ANYONE. You do yours,
I'll do mine."
"I DON'T RUN ERRANDS FOR YOU."
-- HHW <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 26 Jan 2008 10:49:15 -0800 (PST)
"I'M NOT GOING TO RUN ERRANDS FOR YOU. This
isn't A STEP 'N FETCHIT EXERCISE. When you attempt to engage
me on the issues ... we'll see what the results are."
drahcir wrote:
>Gosh, I must have missed it. Would you mind reposting the
>proof in your reply to this post?
"I DON'T RUN ERRANDS FOR YOU."
>Thus far you have posted zilch. I wonder why.
"Probably because I DON'T RUN ERRANDS FOR YOU."
-- HHW <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 16 Dec 2007 21:58:00 -0800 (PST)
On Jul 7, 5:35 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>You clip and evade. I almost never clip and almost never
>fail to answer.
hillelgwrote:
"I answer till you bore me too much.
Say something new for a change."
>We much overvalue the connection with Saudi Arabia.
"The Saudis have Carter on the payroll. You can't ognore them
now... "
>why on Earth would they have repeatedly have
>elected these terrorist types like Begin and Sharon?
"Idiot.
Your understanding of Israeli politics is pretty close
to zero."
"Israel takes bad risks to keep the US happy.
"If you ever come with some really new idea write
again. So far you are pretty boring."
--From: hillelg...@yahoo.com, 07 Jul 2007 23:40:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Arrogance
>>Ariadne <ariadne....@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>Free association is a much better game
>>>than knocking down your Aunt Sallies.
>>Free association is a psychological term
>>and "Aunt Sallies" is meaningless. Say what you mean.
>Nonsense! Look it up and "suck it up", dhimmi!
"I DON´T RUN ERRANDS."
--HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com>, 07 Jul 2007 17:37:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Arrogance
>>>On Jun 27, 10:32 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical
>>>>court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of
>>>>rabbinical authority. All classical Jewish sources which mention his
>>>>execution are quite happy to take responsibility for it; in the
>>>>talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned.
>>On Jun 28, 3:09 am, hillelg...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>Really?!
>>>Quote the Talmud and give the page number you idiot.
>On Jun 28, 7:42 pm, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>>Here's the two paragraph quote shorn of its provocative title. You too
>>clip it and delete the citation to Israel Shahak.
>>"According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical
>>court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of
>>rabbinical authority.
>Is English your second language, O Hooded and Sheeted One? Quote the
>portion of the Talmud which relatest that "Jesus was executed by a
>proper rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry,
>and contempt of rabbinical authority."
>What is so difficult to understand?
"IS IT DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND THAT I DON´T RUNN
ERRANDS? Don´t play dumb. The burden has shifted to you. I
cited a famed scholar. You call his work bologna. I´m afraid you´ll
just have to explain why. What in that is so difficult to understand?
--HHW <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 29 Jun 2007 16:48:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Tolerance
>>HHW wrote:
>>>I cited a famed scholar.
>hillelg wrote:
>>Just because you "cite a famed scholar" claiming
>>that the Earth is flat does not make the Earth flat.
On Jun 30, 11:34 am, HHW <coaster132...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>Of course not, but it raises an issue of fact.
"Ha?
Experts don't establish facts, experts just explain how
the observed data may, or may not, fit into a theory
of what happened."
>The burden then shifts to you, the proponent of earthly
sphericalism.
"You have to establish the facts first.
Tell me what page of the Talmud your "scholar"
used and I'll check their data."
-- hillelg...@yahoo.com, 01 Jul 2007 21:51:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Tolerance
>"Cazador" wrote:
>>His Jewish "friends" on the moderated group have
>>been trying to discourage him by saying that you gotta
>>be born a Jew to be a real Jew, but he seems not to listen
>>even to them.
>The thread is called Let the Jews be delivered from their
>darkness. Now point out where someone told me you have to
>be born a Jew to be a real Jew.
"Go look for it yourself. I already gave you a good
response that covered most of your demands, Now you've clipped it.
YOU'RE NOT WORTH RUNNING ERRANDS FOR."
--Cazador <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>. 05 Jun 2007 22:38:07 -0700
>You have no argument.
>And with all your skirting the issues, you haven't shown
otherwise.
"I DON'T RUN ERRANDS FOR DEBORAH/ELIZABETH
OR SUFFER FOOLS LIKE YOU GLADLY."
-- Cazador <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 02 Jun 2007 19:48:45 -0700
>1) Point out EXACTLY where I made any such "filthy little
>big pig" comment regarding Al Sharpton, as you claim:
>"Deborah's "filthy little big pig" comment about Sharpton is
>hard to interpret as anything but racist. She is invited to try. She
>should not have said it. It was very coarse and reflects poorly on
>the quality of her upbringing. Her mother would be
>horrified."
"My, my, such a snit, my girl. But as you know I DON'T
RUN ERRANDS FOR YOU AND AM NOT GOING BACK TO
MUCK RAKE THAT PARTICULAR RACIST OUTBURST."
-- Cazador <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 15 May 2007 21:26:31 -0700
>the question to you was in this very thread. The questions to
>Westermeyer were in the thread before this one.
"I DON'T RUN ERRANDS FOR CHILDREN, DoD. I'll be
happy to answer every single question you address to me. But
NO STEP 'N FETCHIT FOR THE LIKES OF YOU."
-- Cazador <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 27 Apr 2007 21:26:31 -0700
"I DON'T RUN ERRANDS FOR YOU DEBORAH. LOOK IT
UP YOURSELF. It should not be hard to find. Why do you clip
You really are devious."
"You can find it. My memory is actually pretty good.
RUN YOUR OWN ERRANDS.
What I give you is what you will get from me."
" I DON'T RUN STEP 'N' FETCHIT ERRANDS FOR YOU."
--"Cazador" <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 12 Jan 2007 19:39:04 -0800
>Be weird give it a go.
"I doubt you can handle it, Dave. Bert and me at
the same time? ..Just remember WE WON'T RUN ERRANDS
FOR YOU."
HW
-- "Hunter Watson" <coaster132000 @yahoo.com>, 6 Nov 2005 14:37:07
-0800
==============================
END SAMPLES OF HUNTER WATSON'S STOCK RESPONSES TO REQUESTS FOR FACTS
AND CITES
Back to H's assertion that I made a "racist" comment about Al
Sharpton, and H's many, many sidedodges ("I DON'T RUN ERRANDS!!!") of
requests to produce that post. Naturally, H can't -- it doesn't exist
outside H's imagination.
>>You told me I've "got family in israel and that's all that matters to
>>you."
>
>Did I really say that? How about a cite?
rotflol
A request for a cite is pretty funny coming from Hunter "I DON'T RUN
STEP 'N' FETCHIT ERRANDS" Watson. I don't run step'n'fetchit errands.
Look it up.
>Well, do you and does it?
Do I what, and does what, what?
>That does sound a bit unkind of me--out of context. Perhaps an al het?
Al Who?
>>You told me I'm "simply are thrilled by crimes against humanity so
>>long as Israelis are dishing it out".
>That's the impression I have presently. I don't recall you ever having
>said a critical word about Israeli crimes against humanity. Most of
>the time you haven't been willing to admit they have taken place.
>You're an anti-Palestinian racist. You almost always cover for Israeli
>crimes with flat, unsupported denials. "Nope" she says.
You can keep your impression, since nothing I say to the contrary is
likely to change it.
>>You told me that I have "a bachelors degree in Jewish History" which
>>kept me "from getting an education."
>
>I don't have a very high impression of your level of education, Deb.
It's enough to have proven you wrong, time and again. No wonder you
like to deride it.
>Some one else here said you studied Jewish history at college. Was it
>inaccurate? Tell me you studied something else and I'll apologize for
>having been misled.
I hold a degree in a field other than Jewish history, which I did NOT
study in college. I'm almost certain whoever provided you with that
bit of "inaccuracy" also passed along a few other 'inaccuracies".
>>You told me I'm an "ignorant schnorrer", as well as "abandoned and
>>unemployed, filled with hate", and a "failure in attaining a decent
>>education."
>
>You're certainly filled with hate. That's characteristic of racists.
And you're filled with hate and ignorance -- hence the lack of comment
over your hysterical misuse of "schnorrer". Chaim Weizmann was a
schnorrer; the "king of schnorrers" he called himself.
>It's my personal opinion that you failed to attain a decent education,
>but that is subjective. I tend to like breadth and patterns of life-
>long curiosity.
It's my personal - subjective, of course - opinion, as well as my
observation over the years, that you prefer bullshit to facts. And
you're a Jew hater, too, of course.
>You don't display them so far as I can see. Had I been
>inclined by your erudite charm to be more kind, that could easily have
>happened. But you are neither erudite nor charming. You consistantly
>attacked me in unimaginably foul fashion.
Unimaginably foul? Gee, and here I thought I was showing a bit of
havlaga -- especially after you called me a liar and stupid several
dozen times, accused me of making "racist" and other statements I
never made, and so on.
>I should treat you with kid
>gloves? Not likely. I don't even know for sure that you're a woman so
>even the vestiges of chivalry may not apply.
It's never mattered to you what you "know for sure", since you've
always shown yourself willing to bullshit about it -- isn't that so,
Hunter?
>>You told me "You know nothing" and "You don't know what you're talking
>>about" and "You know nothing".
>Comparatively, my dear, you are an ignoramous. But they know something
>so I do apologize for such mistaken zeal in the heat of battle.
>>You told me that I "once inadvisably exclaimed something like: "Don't
>>you just love Benny Morris?" before I "knew that he, like Pappe, is
>>considered a "New Historian" (23/3/08 )
>
>So? I have good reason to believe it.
Your "good reason" is that you've repeated your lie so often you've
come to "believe it".
>Given your disgusting flat denials of the Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestine
I've never made any such denials, flat or otherwise. Your wishful
thinking, and love of your own rhetoric, is blowing you over the edge
of reality again.
>it would have been ridiculous of you to say "Don't ya just
>love Benny Morris" had you actually read him.
It's ridiculous of you to keep claiming I did, when you can't cite a
single post to support your claim.
>>You told me I "Don't ya just love Benny Morris!?" Deborah. (26/3/08)
>I paraphrased you, closely, Deb.
You paraphrased yourself, Hunter. You can't even produce anything I
said that's even close.
>You've recently been pretending you
>didn't say it. That's deceitful.
It's deceitful of you to keep pretending that I said it, when you're
quite aware I didn't, and, like the post where you claim I made the
"racist" Al Sharpton remark, you can produce neither. Give it up,
Hunter. You're the liar here, and you know it.
>>and again,
>>"Don't you just love Benny Morris, Deborah?" (28/3/08), and again,
>>"Don't you just love Benny Morris," 31/5/08 and that I "'love him"and
>>that I "said it. Don't forget it."
>
>No apologies for the truth, Deb.
There's no truth in the words of yours cited above - and no apologies
from you, naturally, for your lies.
>But you're paraphrasing all the way
>through here when you could simply cut and paste.
Those ARE cut-n-pastes, Hunter, ole man -- from YOUR posts.
>I don't trust you an inch. Who knows what you've done with the text?
Look it up, if you're interested.
>>(It's difficult to see how one can forget something one never did.
>Have you had it deleted? Haha! Well there is always the subpoena duces
>tecum.
Care to go to the Google archives regarding the "racist" Al Sharpton
posts, to see what a liar you are?
>>Nevertheless, you went on to tel me that I "hadn't read his book and
>>didn't realize that he's the NEW HISTORIAN who first confirmed the
>>NAKBA took place, the forced expulsion of the Palestinian people, the
>>"catastrophe". If you had any moral fiber you could avoid such
>>humiliations. "
>Well, try telling the truth about Benny Morris.
You mean recite your opinion that "Benny Morris is not an honest
scholar", that he has "lost all credibility -- and that this has
somehow been "proved", beyond a shadow of a doubt, according to you,
by Mearsheimer and Walt. The fact that they based a good portion of
their little squib on factoids from Morris's work, and that I
repeatedly pointed this out to you as a basis for the reason they
would never seek to "prove" Morris is, according to you "not an honest
scholar", repeatedly flew over your head.
>You have repeatedly denied the expulsions.
Post one of my "denials" -- if you can. It doesn't even have to be a
flat one. But of course, you can't.
>You now say that when you made these denials
>you had read his book? Are your denials now "inoperative"? Why not
>just tell us what's going on, Deb.
Would you mind translating that into intelligible English?
> >Be that as it may, you told I said.....
>>"Don't ya just love Benny Morris?" (Deborah)" (1/9/08) And again:
>>"Don't you just love Benny Morris." (Deborah) " 8/9/08.
>>You told me that I "famously said, "Don't you just love Benny Morris"
>>before having read him." (30/11/08). And again:
>>"Don't you just love Benny Morris?" (7/2/09)> Don't you just love Benny Morris?" (29/6/09)Hah
>>You told me that I "proclaimed, "Don't you just love Benny Morris?"
>>and "loved him before having read him." (28/11/09)
>I have reason to believe you now have his origin of the Palestinian
>Refugee Problem "revisited" volume.
That's "BIRTH of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949" and
"BIRTH of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited". I've corrected
you several times.
Do you also have reason to believe that you can paste the link to an
actual post where I wrote anything even RESEMBLING your oft-repeated
claim of "Dont you just love Benny Morris?" Put it up - IF you can.
>But I don't recall any sign that you ever read the first one.
I don't recall any sign that I ever posted anything resembling what
you've repeatedly claimed I posted.
>You can disabuse me of that error.
I read it years ago. I've quoted it here on these groups -- ten and
more years ago.
>But if you do so please explain your denials of the Naqba.
Post one of my so-called "denials" -- EXACTLY -- along with the link
-- and I'll explain it.
>>You told me that I "seldom post new content" and that my headers are
>>"inevitably filthy".
>For a long time it seemed so to me. Perhaps I'm a bit cruel here.
No, you're just being your usual obtuse self.
>It's
>hard to be even remotely generous to a person such as you. Not
>inevitably. Just so often as to make a decent person nauseous.
No doubt because your fantasies get in the way. As I've said before,
you don't even know me.
>>You told me there aren't "any actual Jews here who respect you."
>
>I have a pretty high opinion of Jews generally.
I'll continue to nurse my doubts about that. And so will others, I've
no doubt.
>Zionist activists
>excepted, perhaps, I can't believe that they would respect what you've
>done here. Especially early in our "relationship". That applies to
>Ratner too.
"They" meaning all Jews, of course. Right?
>>You told me "You're just in your sixties."
>
>You aren't in your sixties?
Not by a long shot.
>Tell us your age and I'll be happy to make
>a correction. It's impolite to ask a lady her age but then you might
>be male anyway. Or so we have been told by one long time-poster
>anyway.
I can imagine who that was.
>>These few of the many things you've "told" me are a few of the reasons
>>I take everything you "tell" me with a large dose of salt.
>
>Whatever you like, Deb.
>
>>>He was no racist. He and his family stood up to it locally. What more do you
>>>want?
>
>>Is anyone saying he's a racist?
>
>In my opinion you insinuated that with your angry political slanders
>of President Carter in connection with the Civil Rights Movement. You
>also accused him of cowardice, repeatedly. That was absolutely
>astounding.
Your claims are absolutely astonishing. What "angry political
slanders"? What "repeated" accusations of cowardice?
And BTW -- that's FORMER prez Carter, or, if you like, EX-prez Carter.
The AKs been out of the political arena for three decades now, and
there have been seven administrations since his time.
And is anyone saying he's a racist?
>>>The Jewish kids who helped lead the Civil Rights Movement were
>>>heroes. No doubt about it. Why does their heroism somehow make Carter
>>>a bad person?
Let's back up and see what you snipped without noting it:
>>Does it?
>It doesn't, but that was your insinuation.
It wasn't MY insinuation -- it was your SUBJECTIVE impression.
>Where was he, you asked, when those Jewish kids were on the barricades?
I didn't ask that -- but as usual, you won't let FACTS get in your
way.
>Going to work every day in the Georgia Legislature. You know damned well where he was.
NOT going to work "every day" in the GA Legislature, that's fer
shure.
>After all he was roughly forty at the time.
38 - 41. So what? It's hardly an antediluvian age range, you know.
>You defamed him. In fact you
>essentially defame everyone opposite you here--unless they are allied
>with you. You are a very nasty person, Deb. Very nasty.
One may suppose liars might think so.
>>>You reason in the strangest and most unpleasant ways.
>Obviously true, Deb. You far too often fail to tell the truth or
>struggle to suppress it.
You're projecting your own aversion to facts and honesty, as well as
your preference for bullshit.
>>Your jumping to conclusions leaves you hanging, as usual, out on a
>>limb.
>That's true about you even if someone else said it.
Is not, nyah nyah nyah.
>>>You have no basis for defaming Carter on this issue.
>>That's pretty funny.
>You're not laughing.
I'm chuckling, though.
>You have no basis whatever. You have only one
>reason for your anger with Carter. He is a high profile critic of
>Israeli behavior and policy. Your default response to anyone in that
>category is an attempt to stigmatize with accusations of anti-Semitism
>and various other ad hominems. You've done it over and over again.
>You're also a spammer.
That's pretty funny, too.
>>>That he wasn't in a particular movement that other people were in means nothing.
>Why didn't you respond to that? Surely the logic isn't beyond you.
I responded. You need it spelled out?
>>Carter wasn't in a nuclear submarine as an officer, either, nor did he
>>ever earn a "Nuclear Engineering degree", as you claimed.
>His degree was apparently in physics.
Apparently it wasn't, unless one can earn a physics degree on the
basis of one noncredit class.
>In his naval service that meant nuclear engineering.
Which training he never completed, retiring from the Navy four months
into it.
>>A large dose of salt, as I said.
>
>Dishonest, Deb. He supervised the construction of nuclear subs for
>Hymen Rickover.
Oh dear, apparently I did NOT put to rest your insistence on
bolstering Jimmy's lie that he was a nuclear physicist. But, as I
said, he'd neither the education nor the training nor the experience.
As it turns out, others have said it as well.
"Carter's overuse of superlatives seems closely relate to his penchant
for exaggeration, which became another signature of his political
style, as we shall see. Exaggeration comes with the political trade;
it is an ineluctable and perhaps necessary component of that
overweening sense of self that all successful politicians exhibit...In
this respect, Carter's occasional whoppers and frequent petty
exaggerations do not especially stand out. But they are incongruous
with his self-declared Christian wariness of the sin of pride and
profession of the virtue of humility.
"A small but telling Carter exaggeration had its origin in his period
during the Rickover program. When he ran for president in 1976, Carter
would claim, among his other credentials, that he was a nuclear
PHYSICIST...
'Though Carter was later to call himself a nuclear scientist,
it is apparent that his formal training in that field was
limited; he had had no training in nuclear physics at
Annapolis and his subsequent graduate work at Union Col-
lege [in New York] consisted of a noncredit, one-semester
course. One professor who taught the course says that "No
one who took that program could be classed as a nuclear
engineer--it was at quite an elementary level.'"
"While Carter exaggerated his scientific credentials...his subsequent
experience with nuclear technology...included working a hazardous
cleanup at a Canadian nuclear reactor that had suffered a partial
meltdown in 1952."
"At this point, the twenty-nine year old Carter could have every
expectation of a distinguished naval career ahead of him...But just a
year into Rickover's nuclear [training] program, Carter received news
that bought his naval career to an abrupt end and resulted in the
second major turning point in his life. Back in Plains, his father
was dying of cancer."
- S.F. Hayward, The real Jimmy Carter , p 22-23
>Sad Deb. I've collected your posts too. Many of them are too filthy to
>reproduce.
rotflol
Yeah, right, but you collect these allegedly filthy posts anyway. What
do you do with them? No, forget I asked.
>I haven't forgotten them, I assure you.
It's obvious you HAVE forgotten a good deal of them; otherwise, you
wouldn't keep lying about them.
You've also forgotten the many times you retreated from the facts I
posted with your tail tucked between your legs.
Care to produce that link to support your claim that I made a 'racist'
remark about Al Sharpton?
Deborah