Norodom Sihanouk
ray.urie
of Norodom Sihanouk.
Can anyone help???
Thanks
Chey101
while millions of khmer children could not live to their 20's?
I don't know what those chinese doctors had fed this old man. But,
he is about to tai smung. I don't think he will ever make any public apology
to the cambodian people for helping/siding with the VC/NVN and
especially with the KR. Without this old man help, the KR could not
seize the power in less than 5 years. Therefore, this old man is as guilty
as the murderes KE as well eventhough he didn't order to kill anyone
after the KR's takeover on April 17, 1975.
ray.urie
Chey101 <che...@dejanews.com> wrote in message
news:3BBDD055...@dejanews.com...
KHMER NEAK SRE
Without Sihanouk's help there was never be any Khmer Rouge victory. Without the
corrupt Lon Nol-Lon Non regime there would never be any communist victory over
Cambodia. These are two main domestic factors that brought down Cambodia
nation.
Stop wasting times waiting for an apology. Better work for education of civil
society and promotion of human rights.
Sakoun
-------------------------
Subject: Re: Norodom Sihanouk
From: Chey101 che...@dejanews.com
Date: 10/5/01 11:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <3BBDD055...@dejanews.com>
Chey101
He is about to tai smung.
I don't know about his other health issues(prostate cancer, diabtese
etc..), but one thing that he won't be able to do is to be a playboy.
Take it back. I am not 100% sure though.
Chey101
the two main factors are : Sihanouk helped the KR/VC/NVN and even President Bush
and the mighty polar Bear have acknowdlege that it not easy to win the guerrilla
warfare.
OK, inn order to get the human right, let's abolish the monarchy first. This old
and outdate
monarchy was and still is the main cause of the human right abuse.
KHMER NEAK SRE
training and support from the Comintern, Viet and Red China, but at the end CPT
died in its sleep. Why? Because majority of Thai does not think it is a need to
go over to the other side and fight a red revolution. Thailand is corrupt, but
the elite still allow some room for development. Thai had several coups but
only few died. The leadership is not in the mood of killing off each other.
Result? Thailand survived the cold war.
Some people said Sihanouk was very popular in that time and Lon Nol had no
match in this field. It is the factor that Khmer Republic became unpopular. I
think it is not true. I think the birth of the Khmer Republic was a bad omen to
start with. All the supports from outside could not help because the Cambodian
leadership was not objectively focusing on defending the principle of the
republic. [Rereading the history]
All past and present so-called leaders are directly and indirectly, covertly
and openly collaborating with communists. They said this is politic. I say this
is evil dealing that destroying Cambodia.
The powerful force that can win in the struggle against communist is democrat.
The true democrat not the fake one that wandering around in Cambodia politic
today.
Sakoun
Subject: Re: Norodom Sihanouk
From: Chey101 che...@dejanews.com
Date: 10/5/01 1:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <3BBDE758...@dejanews.com>
Chey101
was not that strong niether prior 1970. Let's face it, communism was still younf
back
in 1930 and after WWII, everyone including the non-communists were busy rebulding
their country, especially the super powers.
I didn't know much about politic, especially khmer back prior 1970, but I am not
aware of any killing as the result of March 17, 1970 coup. Sihnaouk had complained
that the republican had mistreated his children badly. I don't think I but that.
Oh, come on KNS. Are you serious about defending the principle of the republic
at the time like that? The commies/royalists were all over the country within less
than
six months after that 1970's coup.
The problem with Cambodia is very unique one and that is one of the big reason that
Cambodia is still like it is now and long time to go. There are no one of the
present
khmer polotician who is democrat. They do anything to grab the power or to maintain
the power. Beside, there are thousand and thousands of murderers who are running
free all over the country. It is going to need a miracle to cure that disease or at
least
another 50 years or so.
KHMER NEAK SRE
-----------
Subject: Re: Norodom Sihanouk
From: Chey101 che...@dejanews.com
Date: 10/5/01 12:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <3BBE09A7...@dejanews.com>
Chey101 "It was timing as well that Thailland survive the cold war and its
geography. "
KNS: What do you mean by timing? In April 1975, all countries neighboring
Thailand except Malaysia are either socialist or communist. The power vacuum
coming directly toward Thailand. I think it is not about timing and geography.
-----------
Chey101 "The KRwas not that strong niether prior 1970. "
KNS: There was only tiny group, a puppet creation of Vietnamese communist.
------------
Chey101, "Let's face it, communism was still younf back in 1930 and after WWII,
everyone including the non-communists were busy rebuilding their country,
especially the super powers."
KNS: You are missing something here. The line was drawn well right after the
end of WWII. Did you study the creation of Bao Dai kingdom in 1949? Did you
study Geneva Conference of 1954? Did you study the creation of SEATO?
------------
Chey101 "I didn't know much about politic, especially khmer back prior 1970,
but I am not aware of any killing as the result of March 17, 1970 coup."
KNS: Do you remember how many young innocent Lycee students were sent to be
shooting targets for the VC/NVA? This is only one casualty of the Lon Nol side.
What about the blood that spilled over the VC/NVA/CPK initiated demonstrations
launched from provinces to Phnom Penh? And what about the casualty of the war
in period 1970-1975? Chey101, I blamed the rotten corrupt and bad dealing by
the so-called Khmer Republican and those of the Sihanoukist.
-------------
Chey101 "Sihnaouk had complained that the republican had mistreated his
children badly."
KNS: It was a coup that partly engineered by Sihanouk himself. Those lazy
rotten royal members were not badly treated. Ask them who shipped them out to
France and Peking in that time? It was a deal that only killed innocent Khmers.
Majority of Khmer Rouge armaments and logistics were supplied by the rotten Lon
Nol regime high officials. The war that no one committed to real fight.
---------------------
Chey101 "Oh, come on KNS. Are you serious about defending the principle of the
republic at the time like that?"
KNS: Yes, Sir. True republicans and democrats did not run away. We were
stripped off the official position of the states by the corrupt-dealing Lon
Nol-Lon Non gang who are fake republicans. They stopped us from promoting good
political program of the republic. Even the constitution (1972) was badly
altered. Competent people were assigned to jobs that are far out of their
rotten corrupt way. Strong and skillful military commanders were withdrawn when
they advanced. Well-trained units were broken up. What war was that? If it was
not the deal and wheel war that killed only innocents?
-------------------
Chey101 "The commies/royalists were all over the country within less than six
months after that 1970's coup."
KNS: Of course, the VC/NVA, sleepers and spies were all over the country under
the shade of Sihanouk-Pen Nouth-Nhiek Thioulong-Son San-Lon Nol gang. Some of
these high personalities' mansions were constructed by Vietnamese commie. These
people bankrupted Cambodia before the war started.
--------------------
Chey101 "The problem with Cambodia is very unique one and that is one of the
big reason that Cambodia is still like it is now and long time to go."
KNS: The Buddha said nothing is permanence! I think when Khmers are determine
to be free, they will be able to make change in their society. It can be
changed tonight. It depends on the will of people. First, they must be educated
about the beautiful and just civil society. When Khmer Rouge took over, I said
to friends that it would not last long, and I am right. I fought against it
from the beginning. The evil Hun Sen/CPP will be out of power when people reach
the boiling point. Only just and democratic regime can last long.
---------------------
Chey101 "There are no one of the present khmer polotician who is democrat. They
do anything to grab the power or to maintain the power. Beside, there are
thousand and thousands of murderers who are running free all over the country.
It is going to need a miracle to cure that disease or at least another 50 years
or so."
KNS: Forget about miracle. Determination to be free and independent is needed.
You can light the candle and pray every night and I am sure it never goes
anywhere if you don't do it. Determination to liberate oneself from oppression
is needed. It does not need 10 or 50 years. It can be done immediately when
national unity and strength are for real. Faking, yapping may take even
1,000,0000,0000 years!
-----------------------
therabbitnews
Many people would go against me when I said it. Now, two of us say the same
thing.
I bet you there are many more who would agree with this fact.
"Chey101" <che...@dejanews.com> wrote in message
news:3BBDD055...@dejanews.com...
Chey101
> Hi, Chey101, please refer to my response inserted below.
> -----------
>
> Subject: Re: Norodom Sihanouk
> From: Chey101 che...@dejanews.com
> Date: 10/5/01 12:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> Message-id: <3BBE09A7...@dejanews.com>
>
> Chey101 "It was timing as well that Thailland survive the cold war and its
> geography. "
>
> KNS: What do you mean by timing? In April 1975, all countries neighboring
> Thailand except Malaysia are either socialist or communist. The power vacuum
> coming directly toward Thailand. I think it is not about timing and geography.
> -----------
>
Chey101: You'd mentionned 1930. Geographically, the thai didn't have any common
border with the viet. That was big plus eventhough the thai does have common border
with China. The US had already have bases in Thailland. Why do you think the Thai
use
the cambodian as shiled when teh viet was across from their border?
>
> Chey101 "The KRwas not that strong niether prior 1970. "
>
> KNS: There was only tiny group, a puppet creation of Vietnamese communist.
> ------------
>
There were more than that. I don't believe all of them were viet puppets. This
remind
me of Dr Coward's uncle. His friends were also pro-janoi and only Hun Sen is viet
puppet while he almost upgrade his friend to hero.
>
> Chey101, "Let's face it, communism was still younf back in 1930 and after WWII,
> everyone including the non-communists were busy rebuilding their country,
> especially the super powers."
>
> KNS: You are missing something here. The line was drawn well right after the
> end of WWII. Did you study the creation of Bao Dai kingdom in 1949? Did you
> study Geneva Conference of 1954? Did you study the creation of SEATO?
> ------------
But, they were not strong enough to overthrow anyone. It was just the beginning.
>
> Chey101 "I didn't know much about politic, especially khmer back prior 1970,
> but I am not aware of any killing as the result of March 17, 1970 coup."
>
> KNS: Do you remember how many young innocent Lycee students were sent to be
> shooting targets for the VC/NVA? This is only one casualty of the Lon Nol side.
> What about the blood that spilled over the VC/NVA/CPK initiated demonstrations
> launched from provinces to Phnom Penh? And what about the casualty of the war
> in period 1970-1975? Chey101, I blamed the rotten corrupt and bad dealing by
> the so-called Khmer Republican and those of the Sihanoukist.
> -------------
>
Those young student were brave and they were volunteers. Yes, only the brave and
patriotist like them were the one who have to sacrifice their life for the country
while
the smart and the covawrd like Dr Santhor. " I am not afraid to face teh VC/NVN"
siad DR Covard Santhor, 25-30 years later on the high ground. Your real Hero.
The only person I;ve heard that was killed right after the March 1970's coup(not
in the battle field) was one of Lon Nol's brothers. So, according to you, teh
cambodian
should not fight against the VC/NVN after they refuse to leave the cambodian
territory,
right?
Why blaming teh one who were fighting against the VC/NVN who refused to leave the
cambodian soil? How about the murderes and the dumb and stupid KR who were not
just murdrered their own people, they were siding/helping the so-called natural
enemy
as well.
>
> Chey101 "Sihnaouk had complained that the republican had mistreated his
> children badly."
>
> KNS: It was a coup that partly engineered by Sihanouk himself. Those lazy
> rotten royal members were not badly treated. Ask them who shipped them out to
> France and Peking in that time? It was a deal that only killed innocent Khmers.
> Majority of Khmer Rouge armaments and logistics were supplied by the rotten Lon
> Nol regime high officials. The war that no one committed to real fight.
> ---------------------
>
I've doubt that the majority of the KR armements and logistics were supplied by the
LOn Nol regimes. Some I believe. The KR/Royalists were trained on the fly by
the VC/NVN at least all the way toward the end of 1973. The VC/NVN were
the main suppliers to the KR/Royalists.
>
> Chey101 "Oh, come on KNS. Are you serious about defending the principle of the
> republic at the time like that?"
>
> KNS: Yes, Sir. True republicans and democrats did not run away. We were
> stripped off the official position of the states by the corrupt-dealing Lon
> Nol-Lon Non gang who are fake republicans. They stopped us from promoting good
> political program of the republic. Even the constitution (1972) was badly
> altered. Competent people were assigned to jobs that are far out of their
> rotten corrupt way. Strong and skillful military commanders were withdrawn when
> they advanced. Well-trained units were broken up. What war was that? If it was
> not the deal and wheel war that killed only innocents?
> -------------------
>
Yeah right. When the last time the cambodian army ever have a battle field like
that?
And how do you explain the case of the american with all the might force and could
not
beat the VC/NVN? How about the soviet who were beaten by the the afghanistan
guerrila? It took the US 200 years to get to this point and the cambodian just had
one
opportunity with the enemies all over the country, you expect her to be a strong
Republic?
>
> Chey101 "The commies/royalists were all over the country within less than six
> months after that 1970's coup."
>
> KNS: Of course, the VC/NVA, sleepers and spies were all over the country under
> the shade of Sihanouk-Pen Nouth-Nhiek Thioulong-Son San-Lon Nol gang. Some of
> these high personalities' mansions were constructed by Vietnamese commie. These
> people bankrupted Cambodia before the war started.
> --------------------
>
True. But, I don't believe Pol Pot/Ieng Sary/Khieu Samphan were set up by the
VC/NVN.
Some of the khmer socialists were pro-hanoi and some were not. But, they have to
work
togther.
>
> Chey101 "The problem with Cambodia is very unique one and that is one of the
> big reason that Cambodia is still like it is now and long time to go."
>
> KNS: The Buddha said nothing is permanence! I think when Khmers are determine
> to be free, they will be able to make change in their society. It can be
> changed tonight. It depends on the will of people. First, they must be educated
> about the beautiful and just civil society. When Khmer Rouge took over, I said
> to friends that it would not last long, and I am right. I fought against it
> from the beginning. The evil Hun Sen/CPP will be out of power when people reach
> the boiling point. Only just and democratic regime can last long.
> ---------------------
>
That is right. The will of the people, of course. But, the cambodian people have no
will
nor hope. If they rrise against the CPP/Hun Sen, they are helping the rotten
roaylists
to get the power. The same damn bastards that helped the KR to get the power to
murder
their family/relative/friend. At the same time, the KR are still kiving among them.
That is
unique problem of the cambodian people. Who will lead the just and eemocratic
regime?
Rainsy? Give me a break. Sure, nothing will last for ever. Just wait when after
Sihanouk
tai smung and see what will happen. Hun Sen/CPP will no longer can use Sihanouk and
Funcipec/Rannaridth will be on their own. It is going to take more time until
CPP/Hun Sen
will collapse because they are not as dumb and stupid as their former bosses.
>
> Chey101 "There are no one of the present khmer polotician who is democrat. They
> do anything to grab the power or to maintain the power. Beside, there are
> thousand and thousands of murderers who are running free all over the country.
> It is going to need a miracle to cure that disease or at least another 50 years
> or so."
>
> KNS: Forget about miracle. Determination to be free and independent is needed.
> You can light the candle and pray every night and I am sure it never goes
> anywhere if you don't do it. Determination to liberate oneself from oppression
> is needed. It does not need 10 or 50 years. It can be done immediately when
> national unity and strength are for real. Faking, yapping may take even
> 1,000,0000,0000 years!
> -----------------------
That is the key, isn't? You need national unity which you don't have. You can be
optimstic all you want, unity is not there. Last time I saw a poll done by a
foreign
press, 27% of cambodian peopel want to abolish monarchy while each 10% to 20%
of the rest were spreaded among the royalists. If we were to have a real unity,
1970-75
time frame was a even better time than the present situation. But, unity were not
there
neither. Now, it is even 1.7 million tougher to unite teh cambodian people. Rainsy
and Rannaridth had tried to use the viet issue to stir up the cambodian society in
order
to pull more support from the general populace. The result was pathetic. Two or
three years ago, I was invited to a party organized by a cambodian association.
Somehow,
Rainsy happened to be in town and unexpectly shown up at the party. He just could
resist the temptation, he went to the stage and introduced himeself. Many people
want
him to get the hell out of the microphone because they dodin't come there to listen
to his polotical propaganda. One of the cambodian lady behind me(I never knew her
before) asked me "Wheere was he when the cambodian people suffered under the KR
regime? Why he find us here but not there?". This is just one tiny example to show
you
that you need miracle to unite the cambodians. I know luck is not in your book,
OB1,
but I am going to say it anyway : Godd luck.
KHMER NEAK SRE
Message-id: <3BBF6851...@dejanews.com>
> KNS: What do you mean by timing? In April 1975, all countries neighboring
> Thailand except Malaysia are either socialist or communist. The power vacuum
> coming directly toward Thailand. I think it is not about timing and
geography.
> -----------
Chey101: You'd mentionned 1930. Geographically, the thai didn't have any common
border with the viet. That was big plus eventhough the thai does have common
border
with China. The US had already have bases in Thailland. Why do you think the
Thai
use the cambodian as shiled when teh viet was across from their border?
KNS: I am talking about the threat of communism to Thailand. It dated since
1932. You looked at only threat from Vietnam and leaving all others.
-------------------------------------------
> KNS: There was only tiny group, a puppet creation of Vietnamese communist.
> ------------
Chey101: There were more than that. I don't believe all of them were viet
puppets. This
remind me of Dr Coward's uncle. His friends were also pro-janoi and only Hun
Sen is viet puppet while he almost upgrade his friend to hero.
KNS: Please identify them for me. I said it started by the Viet, what do you
say?
-------------------------------------------
> KNS: You are missing something here. The line was drawn well right after the
> end of WWII. Did you study the creation of Bao Dai kingdom in 1949? Did you
> study Geneva Conference of 1954? Did you study the creation of SEATO?
> ------------
Chey101: But, they were not strong enough to overthrow anyone. It was just the
beginning.
KNS: You are not noticing the French devastating defeat at Dien Bien Phu and
the Viet Minh declaration of independence in 1945? Are these not the threat,
then what else that prompted the US to jump into replace the French?
----------------------------------------------------
> KNS: Do you remember how many young innocent Lycee students were sent to be
> shooting targets for the VC/NVA? This is only one casualty of the Lon Nol
side.
> What about the blood that spilled over the VC/NVA/CPK initiated
demonstrations
> launched from provinces to Phnom Penh? And what about the casualty of the war
> in period 1970-1975? Chey101, I blamed the rotten corrupt and bad dealing by
> the so-called Khmer Republican and those of the Sihanoukist.
> -------------
>
Chey101: Those young student were brave and they were volunteers. Yes, only the
brave and patriotist like them were the one who have to sacrifice their life
for the country
While the smart and the covawrd like Dr Santhor. " I am not afraid to face teh
VC/NVN"
siad DR Covard Santhor, 25-30 years later on the high ground. Your real Hero.
KNS: Out of subject here, there is no Sathor in this discussion. You are
talking to me, Sir. We must stick with the issue that we debate.
--------------------------------------------------------
Chey101: The only person I;ve heard that was killed right after the March
1970's coup(not in the battle field) was one of Lon Nol's brothers.
KNS: You probably did not read the news and observing the situation well. Just
in Kompong Cham alone, hundreds had been slaughtered in the early stage of the
war.
---------------------------------------------------------
Chey101: So, according to you, the Cambodian should not fight against the
VC/NVN after they refuse to leave the Cambodian territory, right?
KNS: you exploited my statement in the wrong way, Sir. I blamed the rotten
corrupt and dealing of the gangs. How do you fight the war with deals and
dishonesty?
----------------------------------------------------------
Chey: Why blaming teh one who were fighting against the VC/NVN who refused to
leave the cambodian soil?
KNS: I blamed the deal makers and suppliers of the KR.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Chey101: How about the murderes and the dumb and stupid KR who were not
just murdrered their own people, they were siding/helping the so-called natural
enemy as well.
KNS: Don't you read my statement?
-------------------------------------------------------------
> KNS: It was a coup that partly engineered by Sihanouk himself. Those lazy
> rotten royal members were not badly treated. Ask them who shipped them out to
> France and Peking in that time? It was a deal that only killed innocent
Khmers.
> Majority of Khmer Rouge armaments and logistics were supplied by the rotten
Lon
> Nol regime high officials. The war that no one committed to real fight.
> ---------------------
>
Chey101: I've doubt that the majority of the KR armements and logistics were
supplied by the LOn Nol regimes. Some I believe. The KR/Royalists were trained
on the fly by
the VC/NVN at least all the way toward the end of 1973. The VC/NVN were
the main suppliers to the KR/Royalists.
KNS: You read KR black book and statistic figures of the war. Interview those
rotten cowards like Sosthen Fernandez, Ieth Suong and Sek Sam Iet, see what did
they do in that period?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Continue...
Chey101
KHMER NEAK SRE wrote:
> Subject: Re: Norodom Sihanouk
> From: Chey101 che...@dejanews.com
> Date: 10/6/01 1:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> Message-id: <3BBF6851...@dejanews.com>
>
>
> > KNS: What do you mean by timing? In April 1975, all countries neighboring
> > Thailand except Malaysia are either socialist or communist. The power vacuum
> > coming directly toward Thailand. I think it is not about timing and
> geography.
> > -----------
>
> Chey101: You'd mentionned 1930. Geographically, the thai didn't have any common
> border with the viet. That was big plus eventhough the thai does have common
> border
> with China. The US had already have bases in Thailland. Why do you think the
> Thai
> use the cambodian as shiled when teh viet was across from their border?
>
> KNS: I am talking about the threat of communism to Thailand. It dated since
> 1932. You looked at only threat from Vietnam and leaving all others.
> -------------------------------------------
That what I said. Before WWII communism just started and have no big momentum.
Even after WWII, Ho was not full fledge communist. I've read somewhere that he did
tal to the US for help to free his country. Cambodia did the same thing, excpet in
small
scale to get independence from France.
>
>
>
> > KNS: There was only tiny group, a puppet creation of Vietnamese communist.
> > ------------
>
> Chey101: There were more than that. I don't believe all of them were viet
> puppets. This
> remind me of Dr Coward's uncle. His friends were also pro-janoi and only Hun
> Sen is viet puppet while he almost upgrade his friend to hero.
>
> KNS: Please identify them for me. I said it started by the Viet, what do you
> say?
> -------------------------------------------
>
Pol Pot and his group didn't start from the viet. Didn't Pol Pot got his idea from
when
he was in France?
>
>
> > KNS: You are missing something here. The line was drawn well right after the
> > end of WWII. Did you study the creation of Bao Dai kingdom in 1949? Did you
> > study Geneva Conference of 1954? Did you study the creation of SEATO?
> > ------------
>
> Chey101: But, they were not strong enough to overthrow anyone. It was just the
> beginning.
>
> KNS: You are not noticing the French devastating defeat at Dien Bien Phu and
> the Viet Minh declaration of independence in 1945? Are these not the threat,
> then what else that prompted the US to jump into replace the French?
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
The Viet Minh like Cambodia and the rest of the colonized countries wanted
independence.
True, after Ho defeat the french, he wanted more. And how many cambodians who knew
Ho's plan and still cooperated with Ho?
>
>
> > KNS: Do you remember how many young innocent Lycee students were sent to be
> > shooting targets for the VC/NVA? This is only one casualty of the Lon Nol
> side.
> > What about the blood that spilled over the VC/NVA/CPK initiated
> demonstrations
> > launched from provinces to Phnom Penh? And what about the casualty of the war
> > in period 1970-1975? Chey101, I blamed the rotten corrupt and bad dealing by
> > the so-called Khmer Republican and those of the Sihanoukist.
> > -------------
> >
>
> Chey101: Those young student were brave and they were volunteers. Yes, only the
> brave and patriotist like them were the one who have to sacrifice their life
> for the country
> While the smart and the covawrd like Dr Santhor. " I am not afraid to face teh
> VC/NVN"
> siad DR Covard Santhor, 25-30 years later on the high ground. Your real Hero.
>
> KNS: Out of subject here, there is no Sathor in this discussion. You are
> talking to me, Sir. We must stick with the issue that we debate.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
If you think just a little bit harder and be a true democrat instead of enmotion I
am
very sure that I am operating well within spec. The issue you brought was about the
student of Lycee Sissowat being sent to die in the battle field. Coward Santhor was
in that Lycee too. Ask him if you don't believe me.
>
> Chey101: The only person I;ve heard that was killed right after the March
> 1970's coup(not in the battle field) was one of Lon Nol's brothers.
>
> KNS: You probably did not read the news and observing the situation well. Just
> in Kompong Cham alone, hundreds had been slaughtered in the early stage of the
> war.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
War is ugly. Each side used gun and bomb to kill each other. We were talking about
direct killing by the group who made the coup as Sihanouk had complained.
>
> Chey101: So, according to you, the Cambodian should not fight against the
> VC/NVN after they refuse to leave the Cambodian territory, right?
>
> KNS: you exploited my statement in the wrong way, Sir. I blamed the rotten
> corrupt and dealing of the gangs. How do you fight the war with deals and
> dishonesty?
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
If they didn't fight, who will do the work? Let the VC/NVN stayed on cambodian
soil.
Maybe they didn't do a good a job in defending the cambodian territory. But, they
were
far far better then the cambodian who sided and ghlped teh VC/NVN, right?
>
> Chey: Why blaming teh one who were fighting against the VC/NVN who refused to
> leave the cambodian soil?
>
> KNS: I blamed the deal makers and suppliers of the KR.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Chey101: How about the murderes and the dumb and stupid KR who were not
> just murdrered their own people, they were siding/helping the so-called natural
> enemy as well.
>
> KNS: Don't you read my statement?
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
Your statement didn't include the KR, only Sihanouk and Lon Nol.
>
>
> > KNS: It was a coup that partly engineered by Sihanouk himself. Those lazy
> > rotten royal members were not badly treated. Ask them who shipped them out to
> > France and Peking in that time? It was a deal that only killed innocent
> Khmers.
> > Majority of Khmer Rouge armaments and logistics were supplied by the rotten
> Lon
> > Nol regime high officials. The war that no one committed to real fight.
> > ---------------------
> >
>
> Chey101: I've doubt that the majority of the KR armements and logistics were
> supplied by the LOn Nol regimes. Some I believe. The KR/Royalists were trained
> on the fly by
> the VC/NVN at least all the way toward the end of 1973. The VC/NVN were
> the main suppliers to the KR/Royalists.
>
> KNS: You read KR black book and statistic figures of the war. Interview those
> rotten cowards like Sosthen Fernandez, Ieth Suong and Sek Sam Iet, see what did
> they do in that period?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Do you believe the KR black book? I don't. They will say anything to whitewash
their
association with the VC/NVN. Just read Khieu Samphan last letter and see how one
of the KR operate. Evetyone of them, including Pol Pot in his last breath claimed
that
they had nothing to do with teh killing of 1.7 million khmer. And do you really
expect me
to believe the KR balck book? Thanks but no thank.
>
> Continue...
Wisarut
Thailand has NO common border with China. Even though my
country did during the WWII (at Saharat Thaidoem - AKA Eastern Shan
State -> from Feb 1942
to Jan 1, 1946).
For the case of 1932 Coup that end Siamese Absolute Monarchy on
June 24, 1932, it has NOTHING to do with communist at ALL - even
though CPT (founded on Dec 1, 1942) attempted to claim the
responsibility. A few week after 1932 coup, the member of communist
party of China (Siamese Charter) - the predecessor of CPT - condemned
that the 1932 coup was a FAKE revolutio.
Neveretheless, the coup leaders (colonels, majors in Royal
Siamese Armed Forces) in People Party kicked several princes to live
in exile for good -> Prince Pariphat of Bang Khun Phrom Palace who
passed away at the house in Bandung, Java, in 1943 and Prince Purachat
of Royal Siamese Railway -> passed away by heart attack in Singapore
in 1936. The conflicts between King Prajadhipok and People Party -
especially after the failed Boworndej Coup in October 1933, forced the
king to abdiccate and lived in exile until the Lord of Death ended the
life of King Prajadhipok on May 30, 1941.
General Prince Boworndej and his companiers had to live in
Saigon for several years until the pardon was granted in 1947. The
ash of King Prajadhipok could be sent back home to be put into
Phrathepbuidorn Parvillion in 1949.
The connflict within People Party also resulted in the exile
of Coclonel Phraya Songsuradej, a military expert graduated from
Prussian Military Academy, to live in exile in Saigon after the failed
attemmpt to rival with "the Leader" (Colonel Luang Phiboonsonggram -
who graduaded from French Ecole de Military) before dying as a
pennyless man by poison from his student who becomee a spy for "the
leader" in Phnompenn in 1944 ... and the legal murder of 18
Lt.+Captain in Royal Siamese Army who associated with colonel Phraya
Songsuradej (the heeadmaster of the War Academy - a substitute of the
College of Staff - in Chiangmai and the political rival with "the
leader") by firing squard in Bang Kwang Central Prison, Nonthaburi in
1939. Those who were spared by "the leader" wer sentenced to live in
exile in Tarrutao island (Andaman Sea), Tao island (Gulf of Thailand),
or Mae Hongsorn (the remote province in Northern Thailand).
Borfore leaving Siam, Prince Paraphat told the omen to Lt.
Prayoon Phamornmontri, his subordinante who tookpart of 1932 coup that
"Even though yoou could see the bloody coup for now, you'll see later
during the political rivalty and struggle within People Party in the
same way as the Blooody
French Revolution. I hope that you won't be killed in such a
turmoil!"
I hope that my viewpoint I show here will show you Thailander's
viewpoint .....
Wisarut
Wisarut
Read the following message frok The Nation (October 7, 2001) to
learn more about CPT.
Student movement crushed but not forgotten
Published on Oct 6, 2001
As Thai society commemorates the 25th anniversary of the Thammasat
University massacre today, those involved in one of the country's
blackest days are probably trying harder than ever to clarify the
ambivalent image of the student movement, which was brutally crushed
on the morning of October 6, 1976.
We know the infiltration of socialism or even communism was real, but
to what extent? What would Thailand have become if there had not been
an atrocity at Thammasat? Would Thailand have become communist if the
students had had their way?
In retrospect, the student leaders have two different views. A number
of them who are now university academics reflected with confidence
that their movement on October 6 was a Leftist one. Students fought
for fundamental changes in society.
"Many were fully aware that they wanted socialism [no matter if or how
they understand it]," Thongchai Winichakul, a student leader who is
now professor of history at the University of Wisconsin, said last
year in a speech to commemorate the event.
"A number of them were interested in, or supported, communism, as an
ideology and as a party - the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT). But
that's not a reason to kill them."
But a group of Thongchai's counterparts gave a different account.
"We didn't think that far," said Suthachai Yimprasert, another former
leader and now a historian at Chulalongkorn University. "The October 6
movement had a very small goal - to protest against the return of
Thanom, which symbolised the return of military dictatorship."
A student-led popular uprising in 1973 overthrew Field Marshal Thanom
Kittikachorn, then prime minister, along with his cronies in the
military. In September 1976, Thanom returned from exile as anovice
monk, sparking furious student protests that led to the right-wing
attacks on Thammasat on October 6.
To Suthachai, the protest against Thanom's return was a movement to
protect democracy, as opposed to dictatorship.
What if the students were the winning side?
"Had we won, Thanom would have had to leave the country," Suthachai
said. "I don't think students could have done anything more during
those years."
Yet the former leader estimated that some 10 per cent of the students
in the movement were sent by the CPT to spread its ideology.
"Changing the country's [political] system into socialism could be a
long-term goal, but it was the revival of dictatorship that we fought
against in 1976," he insisted.
The CPT was founded in 1942, but it was not until the 1970s that the
party began to link up with the student movement, wrote Yuangrat Wedel
in her book The Thai Radicals and the Communist Party published in
1983. Prior to October 14, 1973, the CPT, following Maoism, focused on
rural strategy and did not pay much attention to students, whom it saw
as "bourgeois and urban intellectuals".
The students also had limited knowledge about the CPT as government
suppression had prevented the party from publicising itself in the
cities.
In spite of that, many students readily learnt about Marxism through
the works of both foreign and Thai Marxists from the 1940s. The
original works of Marx, Lenin and Che Guevara were readily available
in Thai. After the change from absolute monarchy to democracy in 1932,
thinkers like Gularp Saipradit, Supa Sirimanon and Jit Pumisak openly
criticised the ruling institutions.
Jit Pumisak's The Face of the Thai Feudalism was among the most
influential books that inspired students to dream of fundamental
changes against the "oppressing class", noted Somsak Jeamteerasakul,
also a student leader in 1976 and now a historian at Thammasat.
But after the successful 1973 uprising, the CPT could no longer ignore
the students and began approaching them.
"It must have come as a stunning surprise when the lightly regarded
students . . . were able to overthrow the . . . government in less
than a week of struggle, [while] the CPT in comparison, had achieved
almost nothing in 30 years of revolutionary warfare," Yuangrat wrote.
However, the CPT did not get much attention from students until the
right-wingers started to strike back a few years after losing the
battle on Rachadamnoen. The massacre on October 6, 1976 was the last
push for the remaining students to join the CPT in the jungles.
"The CPT could possibly have had over a hundred thousand members and
supporters after 1976, an influx which it had never prepared for,"
Suthachai said.
But it was difficult to project what kind of socialist system would
have evolved in Thailand had the students had their way. The manner in
which the students became disillusioned and strongly disagreed with
CPT leaders before giving themselves up to the Thai government in the
early 1980s showed that they were not satisfied with the
Chinese-influenced socialist ideology and practice.
"The students were 'liberal socialist' as opposed to the 'dictatorial
communist' way of the CPT," Suthachai said.
Kasien Tejapira, another student leader and now lecturer in political
science at Thammasat, has said that even had there been no atrocity at
Thammasat, the students would not necessarily have led Thailand into
the social structure of China, Vietnam or Cambodia.
"[This is because] the Thai Left between October 14 [1973] and October
6 [1976]was the confluence of three primary ideologies: the urban Left
with diversified factions like Buddhism, the Western New Left and
Marxism; the CPT and the original Thai Marxists from the 1940s."
The crushing of the Leftists, on the other hand, has a serious
consequence on the intellectual development of Thai society, said Ji
Ungpakorn of Chulalongkorn University.
"Now, nobody dares think differently," he said. "We were pushed into a
uniform way of thinking because the October 6 massacre sent a strong
signal that different thinking is dangerous."
Nantiya Tangwisutijit
Chey101
therabbitnews
monarchy has never ever brought their country to ground zero as the
Cambodian monarchy had done.
Bury
Loyalty to the Cambodian law & customs,and love each other
make us Khmer.
"therabbitnews" <therab...@netscape.net> wrote in message news:<L3Px7.340$34.1...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>...
therabbitnews
Look what the monarchy did when they built the Angkor Temple. What was the
sole purpose? How many Cambodian lives were lost for that sole purpose? Did
the history mention anything about the dedication of those Cambodian people?
Look at the Sihanouk monarchy. Did he discredit those who fought to force
France to return the independence? Who got the credit? Was it Sihanouk? Did
Sihanouk then threaten those people because he was afraid of loosing his
infamous figure? Finally he lost his power and the possible crown. What did
he do? He gathered his people to fight for those who later killed millions
of their own people?
These are what you are saying. The tradition of self destruction.
"Bury" <chau...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b905280a.01101...@posting.google.com...
sadamm
> Even with the destruction they have brought to the country?
> Look what the monarchy did when they built the Angkor Temple. What was the
> sole purpose? How many Cambodian lives were lost for that sole purpose? Did
> the history mention anything about the dedication of those Cambodian people?
> Look at the Sihanouk monarchy. Did he discredit those who fought to force
> France to return the independence? Who got the credit? Was it Sihanouk? Did
> Sihanouk then threaten those people because he was afraid of loosing his
> infamous figure? Finally he lost his power and the possible crown. What did
> he do? He gathered his people to fight for those who later killed millions
> of their own people?
> These are what you are saying. The tradition of self destruction.
PLEASE REMEMBER THIS:
The same answer is not for every questions.
Smiles,
Sadamm
therabbitnews
You actually offered nothing here. Read it for yourself.
The Cambodian behavior is just like what you are doing. Diverting the
attention from the truth is the infamous behavior which almost all of my
messages are trying to convey. You are showing it here yourself. No one
wrote it for you. You did it yourself. I don't mean to drill this on you
personally. However, I do take it as a very good example to show how the
Cambodian behavior is.
"sadamm" <sad...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:c5dd9877.01101...@posting.google.com...