Pappy Sets the Record Straight on 51-L
Jon Berndt
book. I have addressed some of these quotes on my web page at:
http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html
One difficulty in evaluating John Maxson's quotes of others is that the
individuals named have not been accessible - up until now.
On 7/22/2003 at 15:35 CDT John Thomas Maxson posted on sci.space.shuttle:
--- start ---
John Maxson wrote:
Myron (Pappy) Papadakis (a well-known attorney, jumbo-jet pilot, and
air-crash investigator) always referred to the crossing of the rocket
boosters in the 51-L fireball as "the switcharoody."
When Pappy finally left my former Florida home at 5 am on July 11, 1988, he
told me, "Before I came here, I was not convinced of the switcharoody. I am
now!"
--- end ---
I managed to track down Mr. Papadakis, who was gracious enough to answer
some of my questions via email, and he also called me to discuss the topic
further. His answers shed a LOT of *light* on Mr. Maxson's claim, and tells
us "the rest of the story".
Myron Papadakis said:
"Indeed everything John relayed to you is correct, as of early morning July
11, 1988. The photography that John Maxon showed was so compelling it was my
belief at that time that a "switcheroody" had occurred. That name is based
on a Tom Osbourne trick play at Nebraska (Go Big Red). This was based on his
films and still photos and the Rogers report pictures."
[Pappy related to me that NASA, in practice, had impounded their original
film, and made ten copies for the investigation.
He continued:
"We got a U.S. Senator's help in our demand to see ORIGINAL IMPOUNDED
FILM -- not even the Rogers commission saw the real thing. But, instead
they saw one of ten original copies. We travelled to the Cape and viewed
the real film. Luckily for us and the USA the real films showed what the
FOIA films did not."
"ON MAXSON'S FILMS obtained via FOIA from NASA: The lower rocket [the one
that took a low trajectory, i.e. south-exiting] did not show the black paint
near the frustrum because of overexposed white blinding out the paint in the
cheap copies, while the upper rocket showed a black ring thought to be the
black paint ring."
"ON NASA ORIGINAL FILMS: In the original film you see the lower rocket
*does* have a ring and the ring on the upper rocket is caused by a shadow
thrown by the sun on a displaced frustrum creating a black shadow that
indeed looks like the black stripe."
"Thus We were of the opinion that NO SWITCH occurred. This was conveyed to
Mr. Maxson."
--- end ---
I found this to be very interesting, but I wanted to be sure I understood
what he was saying.
So, I asked him again:
--- start ---
Jon wrote:
"Thanks for your reply - a very informative and detailed reply. I am a
little unclear on one thing, though: As of today, do you believe the SRBs
crossed, or do you believe the Roger's Commission got it generally correct?
It seems in your email below that you initially believed you had evidence
that the booster rockets *did* cross, but that after more in-depth research,
it was shown that the SRBs did *not* cross in the cloud."
--- end ---
"Pappy" wrote back and said:
--- start ---
We were convinced that they had crossed -- from the *preliminary* films and
poor quality pictures. Even those included in the Rogers report had been
reproduced so many times as to give wrong conclusions.
If you study only the poor pictures the lower one coming out of the cloud is
not ruptured and is a brilliant white -- with no band. The upper ruptured
right one now appears coming out of the top with a distinct black band
visible near frustrum.
Only when the 154 film from theodolites are studied do you get clear enough
pictures to see the lower rocket really does have the stripe. The upper
rockets black line is shown in this film to actually be caused by the
frustrum that is displaced and causing a dark shadow where a stripe would
be."
--- end ---
When I spoke with him today he was very congenial and we talked about
various aspects of the accident. We closed with him encouraging me that I
stood on solid ground. He was also quite emphatic about the SRBs NOT
crossing - the original film did not lie.
The fact that John Maxson's FOIA copies are poorly printed (overexposed)
explains a lot. But, this shows that his use of the words of others is at
least sometimes twisted and incomplete, in order to paint the picture he
wants to paint.
CASE CLOSED
Jon
John Maxson
news:3f2073d3$0$54854$a726...@news.hal-pc.org...
>
> I managed to track down Mr. Papadakis,
Big deal. The last I heard, he'd moved from Houston to Austin.
> His answers shed a LOT of *light* on Mr. Maxson's claim,
> and tells us "the rest of the story".
It tells you very little, other than Myron's revised but jaundiced
opinion. (Is he off the Scotch yet?)
> "Only when the 154 film from theodolites are studied do you
> get clear enough pictures to see the lower rocket really does
> have the stripe."
"The 154 film?" What planet is he on?
Clearly, camera E202 shows that it has a frustum separation ring.
Copying film doesn't change proportion to *that* extent!
> "The upper rockets black line is shown in this film to actually
> be caused by the frustrum that is displaced and causing a dark
> shadow where a stripe would be."
Sure, and I know where there is some good ocean-front property
in Clear Lake, Iowa.
There is no way in the world anyone is going to convince me that
a displaced frustum and a sun shadow cause the black ID band
visible in more than 30 frames of rotating left booster seen here:
www.mission51l.com/apreview.htm
> The fact that John Maxson's FOIA copies are poorly printed
> (overexposed) explains a lot.
It shows you exactly how devious and deceitful NASA is (not to
mention that Jon Berndt is the same way).
> But, this shows that his use of the words of others is at least
> sometimes twisted and incomplete, in order to paint the picture
> he wants to paint.
You are a liar, Berndt. You don't know one percent of the story.
On January 5, 1989, some time before traveling to KSC for his
oft-delayed screening (from the Reagan administration into the
Bush administration), Pappy called me to say:
"I don't trust NASA to show us the originals. They've had
a *year* to 'prepare' a film. Now they're claiming they're
having 'flickering' problems."
Papadakis betrayed me. I was told on good authority that it would
make my case even stronger, and it has. Howard Acosta told me
no light table was used, and that the film was run through very fast
(no time for "studying").
They were looking for dozens of things, not just the ID band. In
all cases, Charlie Stevenson gave them an excuse or interpretation
to twist what the Commission reported 180 degrees out of phase.
> CASE CLOSED
Sorry, BBR, it doesn't work that way. You're not Judge Roy Bean;
you simply have delusions that you are.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
Jon Berndt <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote:
>Mr. John Maxson has quoted quite a few people, both online here and in his
>book. I have addressed some of these quotes on my web page at:
>
In your post, can you clarify one thing. When did they actually get
to view original film? It isn't clear from the post, if that was
before or after July 11, 1988.
I guess if after, then this John Maxson fellow must be quite the con artist.
Nick
Jon Berndt
> Jon Berndt <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
> It tells you very little, other than Myron's revised but jaundiced
> opinion. (Is he off the Scotch yet?)
You are so predictable. So deluded. So tragic.
> Sure, and I know where there is some good ocean-front property
> in Clear Lake, Iowa.
Trying to dump it on someone else, eh?
> There is no way in the world anyone is going to convince me that
> a displaced frustum and a sun shadow cause the black ID band
> visible in more than 30 frames of rotating left booster seen here:
We know. You're hopeless, you're not an engineer, you can't do basic
engineering calculations. You've got a history of misusing quotes, twisting
them, and holding back information, as we have just seen.
> www.mission51l.com/apreview.htm
>
> > The fact that John Maxson's FOIA copies are poorly printed
> > (overexposed) explains a lot.
>
> It shows you exactly how devious and deceitful NASA is (not to
> mention that Jon Berndt is the same way).
You just can't handle that you made a big mistake. How typical of you! "Only
*my* evidence is any good!" he says. "Just a flesh wound", he says!
> Papadakis betrayed me. I was told on good authority that it would
> make my case even stronger, and it has. Howard Acosta told me
> no light table was used, and that the film was run through very fast
> (no time for "studying").
Hmmm. I wonder what Mr. Acosta would have to say:
> > CASE CLOSED
>
> Sorry, BBR, it doesn't work that way. You're not Judge Roy Bean;
> you simply have delusions that you are.
You always resort to name-calling when you've lost. You're no engineer, Mr.
J. Maxson.
CASE CLOSED.
Jon
Roger Balettie
> CASE CLOSED
Outstanding work, Jon. This should be considered required reading for any
new sci.space.* visitors.
Please add to your web review at: http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html
My web review of "Betrayal" can be found at:
http://home.austin.rr.com/sts51lvideo/
Roger
--
Roger Balettie
former Flight Dynamics Officer
Space Shuttle Mission Control
http://www.balettie.com/
Jon Berndt
> In your post, can you clarify one thing. When did they actually get
> to view original film? It isn't clear from the post, if that was
> before or after July 11, 1988.
>
> I guess if after, then this John Maxson fellow must be quite the con
artist.
>
> Nick
AFTER! And yes, you are correct.
Pappy viewed John Maxson's poor quality FOIA copy and thought perhaps Mr.
Maxson had something.
After viewing the original NASA film at the Cape, Pappy and the other
individual[s] there viewing the film smiled and nodded in agreement that the
SRBs had NOT crossed. Given Mr. Maxson's hints, I suspect that person must
be Howard Acosta. If true, I wonder what Mr. Acosta *really* thinks.
Jon
Terrence Daniels
> I guess if after, then this John Maxson fellow must be quite the con
artist.
No. He's a sadly untreated paranoiac who's apparently been isolated and
abandoned somewhere in Iowa for over a decade, where he's sat stewing in his
own conspiratorial juices. I wouldn't wish his mental state on anybody, and
I hope I don't end up like him.
See here:
http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html
And there's one other address for a similar page which I've forgotten, but
it should be linked from the above.
Terrence Daniels
>snipped some interesting investigative journalism
Elvis has left the building.
Thanks John...
In other news, the S.S.* weather service predicts a 100% chance of passing
napalm showers, moving in from the Midwest.
Roger Balettie
> "Jon Berndt" <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
> news:3f2073d3$0$54854$a726...@news.hal-pc.org...
> >snipped some interesting investigative journalism
>
> Elvis has left the building.
>
> Thanks John...
Terrence -- make sure you note that *JON* Berndt wrote the missive for which
you're thanking him... *JOHN* Maxson is the individual with the continuously
disproven hypotheses. :)
Oh... and my web review to which you were referring earlier is at
http://home.austin.rr.com/sts51lvideo/, which goes along with Jon's at
http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html
John Maxson
> "John Maxson" <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote in message
> > Jon Berndt <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
>
> > It tells you very little, other than Myron's revised but jaundiced
> > opinion. (Is he off the Scotch yet?)
>
> You are so predictable. So deluded. So tragic.
No, I'm just extremely well documented but very poor from
Lockheed's ***kill*** the messenger campaign. I could
quote Papadakis supporting me till the cows come home.
He frankly admitted that Senator Proxmire had **nothing**
to do with helping them get to see the (ha-ha) "original" film.
When push came to shove, Pappy got pushed and told me
to shove it. What can you expect from a guy who wrote the
first "SRB burnthrough" story for the Houston Chronicle?
(I'm dead serious about his over indulgence in Scotch, too.)
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
Terrence Daniels <danie...@SPAMMERSSHOULDBEShotmail.com> wrote:
>
>No. He's a sadly untreated paranoiac who's apparently been isolated and
>abandoned somewhere in Iowa for over a decade, where he's sat stewing in his
>own conspiratorial juices. I wouldn't wish his mental state on anybody, and
>I hope I don't end up like him.
>
You know, I've been completely ignoring all this Maxson stuff
all this time, as most of the discussion, once it got going, had
little context in it. But looking at this page, and some others,
including Maxson's, which I have never seen before, I can come to only
one conclusion:
The USA need more mental health facilities. :-)
Seriously though, what on earth would Nasa's motive ever be for
a cover-up like that? It was pretty clear to everyone at the time
that they were after answers. And if the accident cause was different
than expected, then what would be the point of hiding it.
And if I understand all this correctly, Maxson is suggesting that it
was a deliberate act of sabotage by the Reagan administration, to slow
down the civilian space program? I mean, just how nuts can one person
possibly be? Forget everything else, if my recollection of 1986-1989
is correct, Nasa funding got increased because of the accident. The
newspapers were full of reports of the Reagan administration doing
a lot, to put the program back on track.
Sometimes, I wonder if we would be better off moderating these groups, so
as to keep the fruit loops out.
Nick
John Maxson
news:BX%Ta.98353$hV.75...@twister.austin.rr.com...
>
> Outstanding work, Jon.
It's a load of Texas steer manure, as always, **Lockheed style**.
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Terrence Daniels <danie...@SPAMMERSSHOULDBEShotmail.com> wrote
in message news:I00Ua.118678$Io.10...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Jon Berndt
> Roger Balettie <rbal...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
> >
> > Outstanding work, Jon.
>
> It's a load of Texas steer manure, as always,
... that you stepped in.
Is that the way they do it in Iowa? Step in "it"; open mouth; insert foot?
You're the only Iowan I know who does it that way.
Jon
--
I speak only for myself, despite Mr. John Thomas' Maxson's wishes. I do not
speak for Lockheed, nor anyone else.
John Maxson
evidence and make hay out of the trash, that's Lockheed's
style -- and yours too.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Roger Balettie <rbal...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_40Ua.98354$hV.75...@twister.austin.rr.com...
Jorge R. Frank
> "John Maxson" <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote in message news:bfq3v7
>
>> Roger Balettie <rbal...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > Outstanding work, Jon.
>>
>> It's a load of Texas steer manure, as always,
>
> ... that you stepped in.
>
> Is that the way they do it in Iowa? Step in "it"; open mouth; insert
> foot? You're the only Iowan I know who does it that way.
It's the sound of a John Thomas being swatted across the snout with the
rolled-up newspaper of Truth.
Bad dog! Sit! Stay!
--
JRF
Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.
John Maxson
news:3f208b9b$0$54851$a726...@news.hal-pc.org...
> "Nicholas Fitzpatrick" <nf...@sentex.ca> wrote in message
>
> > In your post, can you clarify one thing. When did they actually
> > get to view original film? It isn't clear from the post, if that was
> > before or after July 11, 1988.
It was **far too long** after, and Pappy didn't think it was "original."
> > I guess if after, then this John Maxson fellow must be quite the
> > con artist.
*Bad* guess, by an apparently *loose* guesser.
> AFTER! And yes, you are correct.
>
> Pappy viewed John Maxson's poor quality FOIA copy and thought
> perhaps Mr. Maxson had something.
>
> After viewing the original NASA film at the Cape, Pappy and the other
> individual[s] there viewing the film smiled and nodded in agreement that
the
> SRBs had NOT crossed. Given Mr. Maxson's hints, I suspect that person
> must be Howard Acosta. If true, I wonder what Mr. Acosta *really* thinks.
He told me he was *totally* dependent on Papadakis' opinion; and
knowing the shuttle limitations of both, it was the blind misleading
the blind. Rest assured, Howard **knows** I have that all *very well
documented*.
John Maxson
of a junior-sized paper clip trying to paint a barn black.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Terrence Daniels <danie...@SPAMMERSSHOULDBEShotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:pZ%Ta.118675$Io.10...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
John Maxson
around loose. You throw stones first, then ask questions.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Nicholas Fitzpatrick <nf...@sentex.ca> wrote
in message news:3f209206$1...@news.sentex.net...
John Maxson
51-L debris recovery) confirmed an in-cloud booster crossing.
===========================================
DANIEL MAXSON: Do the SRBs -- or did they -- cross in
the clouds?
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya, the feeling is they did. What
happened is when the aft fixture failed, that SRB rotated out.
So that's why the thrust would force it to *cross* -- after the
*forward* section failed -- cross the path of the other which
was still *attached*!
DANIEL MAXSON: Ya but -- but they were held *together*.
I was told by a NASA expert the SRBs were held together by a
big *ring* of the thrust structure of the external tank. Otherwise
they would have immediately exited the cloud. And that they
went maybe a half-second held together by some kind of an ET
*ring* frame.
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Well, there's *two* things that holds it
together. At the *rear* there's a heavy ring for attachment, and
that's where the *failure* occurred, heating one of those struts
that holds them together and then *ripping* the rest of it out. In
the *top* structure, there's a thrust *beam* that goes through
the intertank area. There's some *ancillary* stuff there. The
forward *held* for a little bit.
DANIEL MAXSON: And it allowed them to cross.
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya.
DANIEL MAXSON: Okay.
===========================================
[Given probable cause, a federal judge can order an 'in camera'
inspection of classified (in this case SENSITIVE) film data.]
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Jon Berndt <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
news:3f209476$0$54846$a726...@news.hal-pc.org...
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Jorge R. Frank <jrf...@ibm-pc.borg> wrote in message
news:Xns93C2DB39...@216.39.221.8...
Terrence Daniels
> snipped questions
I asked all those questions myself earlier in the year. :) Search Google
groups with his name as a parameter and read the earlier threads, as well as
those of his kids, and Scott Grissom to boot. That'll get you up-to-date on
the froot loopiness. Somewhere in there your question re: why he didn't get
mental help will be answered also.
> Sometimes, I wonder if we would be better off moderating these groups, so
> as to keep the fruit loops out.
Yes.
Terrence Daniels
> Terrence -- make sure you note that *JON* Berndt wrote the missive for
which
> you're thanking him... *JOHN* Maxson is the individual with the
continuously
> disproven hypotheses. :)
Oh, shizzat. Thanks for catching me.
> Oh... and my web review to which you were referring earlier is at
> http://home.austin.rr.com/sts51lvideo/, which goes along with Jon's at
> http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html
That's the one.
I think if we have a FAQ somewhere, those two obviously should be in there,
plus direct links to Google groups searches of posts made by some well-known
agitators.
John Maxson
so be sure to include all your abusive posts for the 'docs.'
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Terrence Daniels <danie...@SPAMMERSSHOULDBEShotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:dp1Ua.118777$Io.10...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Charleston
> In late October 1987, AF Col. Ed O'Connor (who directed the
> 51-L debris recovery) confirmed an in-cloud booster crossing.
I am just wondering if Colonel O Connor ever saw the original film.
<snip pickled red herring>
> [Given probable cause, a federal judge can order an 'in camera'
> inspection of classified (in this case SENSITIVE) film data.]
And if some federal judge did see the film and told you that you were wrong,
that judge would join the ever growing list of conspiritors right?
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
John Maxson <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
>You know, Nick, it's a shame they let jerks like you run
>around loose. You throw stones first, then ask questions.
Okay then, answer the questions then. I'll stop being judgemental.
BTW, I would prefer if you didn't top-post. And could you trim the quotes
a bit more? And why so much cross-posting? You know, if you went
to news.announce.newusers, and read some of the background information
on Usenet etiquette there, perhaps you would get along with everyone
here better.
Thanks, Nick
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
Terrence Daniels <danie...@SPAMMERSSHOULDBEShotmail.com> wrote:
>"Nicholas Fitzpatrick" <nf...@sentex.ca> wrote in message
>news:3f209206$1...@news.sentex.net...
>
>groups with his name as a parameter and read the earlier threads, as well as
>those of his kids, and Scott Grissom to boot. That'll get you up-to-date on
>the froot loopiness. Somewhere in there your question re: why he didn't get
>mental help will be answered also.
We need a FAQ for all this ... I'll just stick to this thread for a bit,
and stick to my promise above not to prejudge him. Perhaps I am leaping
to conclusions ...
Nick
John Maxson
you're qualified to moderate anything but the used O-rings
in Mosley's outhouse.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Terrence Daniels <danie...@SPAMMERSSHOULDBEShotmail.com> wrote
in message news:sm1Ua.118773$Io.10...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
John Maxson
51-L debris recovery) confirmed an in-cloud booster crossing.
===========================================
[Given probable cause, a federal judge can order an 'in camera'
inspection of classified (in this case SENSITIVE) film data.]
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Charleston <Charl...@lvcmonedotgoeshere.com> wrote
in message news:xA1Ua.38902$zy.2388@fed1read06...
<snipped the snot>
Doug...
To all the 6-year-olds out there.
John, no one here believes you. No one here respects you. No one here
thinks anything but ill of you. Why the bloody hell do you keep pushing
at them?
The definition of a psychosis is continuing to act the same way that has
failed to work over and over again, thinking that the results will change
the next time.
By this definition, you're psychotic. In other words, insane.
Give it up. It's over. It's been over for 17 years. You're wrong.
You've been proven wrong over and over, and each time you are, you simply
resort to name-calling and then start up again on the same behavior.
Psychotic.
Go away.
--
It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... | dvan...@mn.rr.com
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Nicholas Fitzpatrick <nf...@sentex.ca> wrote in message
news:3f20a620$1...@news.sentex.net...
> In article <bfq60g$fea$1...@ins22.netins.net>,
> John Maxson <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
> >You know, Nick, it's a shame they let jerks like you run
> >around loose. You throw stones first, then ask questions.
>
> Okay then, answer the questions then. I'll stop being judgemental.
But you didn't.
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Nicholas Fitzpatrick <nf...@sentex.ca> wrote in message
news:3f20a72a$1...@news.sentex.net...
But you just did -- again.
> Perhaps I am leaping to conclusions ...
>
> Nick
No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
John Maxson <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
>You're wasting your time.
???
I'm confused. I said I wouldn't prejudge you. I just wanted you
to answer my questions, which I think are pretty simple (and to
be expected). And I'm trying to be helpful.
And you are telling me I am wasting my time? So I should go back to
just not believing you then?
Nick
Terrence Daniels
> We need a FAQ for all this ... I'll just stick to this thread for a bit,
> and stick to my promise above not to prejudge him. Perhaps I am leaping
> to conclusions ...
No, you're not.
He can be nice and even helpful, like anybody, but unfortunately he chooses
not to be. I poked a little sideways fun at him and I ended up as being part
of a "conspiracy" (search for MY thread on this if you're bored and need
some extra drama in your life). Not directly named as such, mind you, but my
old 'nick was included as part of some Shit List of his. All this is "Old
Hat" really, search around (I guess you're new here?). :) Anyhow some
posters consider it a badge of honor to be on his List.
If you find yourself listed as an enemy with him (I think you already are,
that didn't take long!), his kids, or Gus Grissom's mysognistic crank of a
son, you're in good company.
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
>You're still out of line.
Sorry, how do you mean?
>> I'll just stick to this thread for a bit,
>> and stick to my promise above not to prejudge him.
>
>But you just did -- again.
How? I think you are reading my posts out of sequence.
>No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Okay then, just answer my questions then.
Oh, and can you please stop changing the subject line, and
cross-posting all these new-groups? It makes it difficult for
my news-reader.
Thanks, Nick
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
Terrence Daniels <danie...@SPAMMERSSHOULDBEShotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hat" really, search around (I guess you're new here?). :) Anyhow some
>posters consider it a badge of honor to be on his List.
Not terribly new, but I was unsubscribed for a few years, only returning
in late 2002. I think I missed much of this before, and most of it
since Feb 1, has really had little contect, so I just ignore it.
>If you find yourself listed as an enemy with him (I think you already are,
>that didn't take long!), his kids, or Gus Grissom's mysognistic crank of a
>son, you're in good company.
... Grissom is another issue I don't get. The posts of his I have seen
have always seemed pretty normal. I don't know about the mysogny part ...
I thought that was a fact of life down there ... :-)
Nick
John Maxson
disasters, Van Dorn. You're all blue sky and babble.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Doug... <dvan...@mn.rr.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.198a6547b...@news-server.mn.rr.com...
John Maxson
credentials for judging my Challenger sacrifice.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Nicholas Fitzpatrick <nf...@sentex.ca> wrote
in message news:3f20aac3$1...@news.sentex.net...
> In article <bfq9hu$n3h$1...@ins22.netins.net>,
> John Maxson <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
>
> >You're wasting your time.
>
> ???
>
> I'm confused.
Where's your defamatory FAQ?
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Terrence Daniels <danie...@SPAMMERSSHOULDBEShotmail.com> wrote
in message news:xZ1Ua.118815$Io.10...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Terrence Daniels
> Not terribly new, but I was unsubscribed for a few years, only returning
> in late 2002. I think I missed much of this before, and most of it
> since Feb 1, has really had little contect, so I just ignore it.
I see. I flat-out abandoned this place for most of late February and March
because the kook & troll count went through the roof.
> ... Grissom is another issue I don't get. The posts of his I have seen
> have always seemed pretty normal. I don't know about the mysogny part ...
> I thought that was a fact of life down there ... :-)
Well, when his best retorts to somebody female involve calling them a cunt
and making menstruation "jokes" I chalk that up to mysoginy. He thinks North
American killed his dad with an elaborate conspiracy for not liking their
ship, and his tactics are more similar to JTM's than they are different.
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
John Maxson <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
>It's too late, Nick. You blew it. Start by stating your
>credentials for judging my Challenger sacrifice.
Look, I've said I won't prejudge you. And I apologise for doing
so without listening to your side of the story. Credentials?
Nothing particular ... I'm not an aerospace engineer. Though
I am an engineer, so I should at least have some ability to
comprehend issues. And I certainly lived through the 1980s, paying
close attention to the issue at the time. (as an aside, I remember
listening to the launch ... I was living in Indonesia at the time, and
Voice of America picked up the NPR feed of the launch ... very
wierd ... I haven't ever heard anyone mention this since, but I remember
the one NPR commentator, after the explosion, commenting that
the SRB separation was very clear, probably because of the cold ...
followed by nothing but silence (and the NASA commentator eventually,
with the famous major malfunction line).
But I digress.
What would have NASA's motive be in covering this up? Sure, cover-ups
occur, but they must be for a reason ... I expect we are witnessing
one right now, in the White House ... but that's another story.
And as a second question. Why do you keep adding other groups to the
Newsgroups: line?
Nick
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
Terrence Daniels <danie...@SPAMMERSSHOULDBEShotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Well, when his best retorts to somebody female involve calling them a cunt
>and making menstruation "jokes" I chalk that up to mysoginy. He thinks North
>American killed his dad with an elaborate conspiracy for not liking their
>ship, and his tactics are more similar to JTM's than they are different.
Oh, is that what it's all about. I've seen allusions, but never put 2+2
together. Hmm, that's just sad ...
Nick
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Nicholas Fitzpatrick <nf...@sentex.ca> wrote in message
news:3f20ac7d$1...@news.sentex.net...
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
John Maxson
in message news:3f20b077$1...@news.sentex.net...
>
> Look, I've said I won't prejudge you. And I apologise for
> doing so without listening to your side of the story.
Okay, let's start over. This thread is misnamed. Pappy
hasn't "set the record straight;" he helped set me up. He
and my lead attorney failed to file a False Claims case for
me as promised. They claimed they couldn't get their FOIA
requests (for film) filled by NASA at JSC. They told me to
request it *for* them from KSC. KSC refused. Then they
said they *had* to have an original frame for spectral analysis
of the flame at 59 seconds in order to file. Months later, into
the Bush administration in 1989, they eventually settled for a
"screening" session. In no way did that aid spectral analysis.
> Credentials? Nothing particular ... I'm not an aerospace engineer.
> Though I am an engineer, so I should at least have some ability to
> comprehend issues. And I certainly lived through the 1980s, paying
> close attention to the issue at the time. (as an aside, I remember
> listening to the launch ... I was living in Indonesia at the time, and
> Voice of America picked up the NPR feed of the launch ... very
> wierd ... I haven't ever heard anyone mention this since, but I remember
> the one NPR commentator, after the explosion, commenting that
> the SRB separation was very clear, probably because of the cold ...
> followed by nothing but silence (and the NASA commentator eventually,
> with the famous major malfunction line).
>
> But I digress.
>
> What would have NASA's motive be in covering this up?
High-level officials at NASA wanted to keep their jobs.
> Sure, cover-ups occur, but they must be for a reason ... I expect
> we are witnessing one right now, in the White House ... but that's
> another story.
It's not altogether another story, believe it or not.
> And as a second question. Why do you keep adding other groups
> to the Newsgroups: line?
I don't. Those are the same groups I've always posted to (with the
Mosley title). Don't attack me personally and you won't see that
abuse notice. Feel free to change this title (and groups) if you like.
Charleston
> In late October 1987, AF Col. Ed O'Connor (who directed the
> 51-L debris recovery) confirmed an in-cloud booster crossing....
Did you read Doug's post about psychosis? You know you don't have to prove
him right, but you are doing just that. You know the lack of quotes is what
gave it away;-)
--
Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC
JSH517
>Sometimes, I wonder if we would be better off moderating these groups, so
>as to keep the fruit loops out.
As much as I hate to say it this is one of the few intelligent things anyone
has said around here in a while.
Jim
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Charleston <Charl...@lvcmonedotgoeshere.com> wrote
in message news:v%2Ua.39792$zy.12003@fed1read06...
>
> Did you read Doug's post about psychosis?
Do you read?
Kent Betts
> You are so predictable. So deluded. So tragic.
Is there some point when we can expect for you to give this topic a rest?
Kent Betts
*does* have a ring and the ring on the upper rocket is caused by a shadow
thrown by the sun on a displaced frustrum creating a black shadow that
indeed looks like the black stripe."
> "John Maxson
> > It's a load of Texas steer manure, as always. Thanks Maxson, and fuck you.
This aspect of the "crossing" wordage always intrigued me.....the stripe thing.
A few months ago I looked at the photo evidence and determined that the photo
was poor, but that it was possible to determine, that the so-called wide stripe
was not there.....that the stripes were where they were supposed to be.
>John Berndt
>"After viewing the original NASA film at the Cape, Pappy and the other
i>ndividual[s] there viewing the film smiled and nodded in agreement that the
>SRBs had NOT crossed. "
Good. It was a silly idea to start with.
John Maxson
you never bothered to ask him how he authenticated those
alleged originals.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Jon Berndt <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
news:3f2073d3$0$54854$a726...@news.hal-pc.org...
>
> One difficulty in evaluating John Maxson's quotes of others is
> that the individuals named have not been accessible - up until now.
That's a lie. They didn't just suddenly come to life.
> "We got a U.S. Senator's help in our demand to see ORIGINAL
> IMPOUNDED FILM -- not even the Rogers commission saw the
> real thing."
"... in our *demand* to see ..." There was *no* subpoena, and no
acknowledgement of this by NASA or Pappy! Quite the opposite!
> "But, instead they saw one of ten original copies. We travelled to the
> Cape and viewed the real film."
Sworn proof of what the Commission saw and of what Pappy saw?
> "Luckily for us and the USA the real films showed what the FOIA
> films did not."
Proof? If this is true, why hasn't NASA corrected the situation?
Jon Berndt
> How predictably dishonorable! In all that communication,
> you never bothered to ask him how he authenticated those
> alleged originals.
How do we know what you have is authentic? It cuts both ways, John. How do
you know where your copies came from? You don't.
Jon
Jon Berndt
> When push came to shove, Pappy got pushed and told me
> to shove it. What can you expect from a guy who wrote the
> first "SRB burnthrough" story for the Houston Chronicle?
> (I'm dead serious about his over indulgence in Scotch, too.)
>
> --
> John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
John Maxson ALSO wrote:
> Myron (Pappy) Papadakis (a well-known attorney, jumbo-jet pilot, and
> air-crash investigator) always referred to the crossing of the rocket
> boosters in the 51-L fireball as "the switcharoody."
>
> When Pappy finally left my former Florida home at 5 am on July 11, 1988,
> he told me, "Before I came here, I was not convinced of the switcharoody.
I
> am now!"
>
> --
> John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Mr. Maxson seemed plenty interested in throwing about names when he thought
it might help him. So, what does Mr. Maxson *really* think about Pappy?
When I spoke with him he remembered lots of details - even page numbers from
the Rogers Report.
Squirm all you want, John Maxson, the truth is revealed in your own words,
and from your own sources.
Jon
Jon Berndt
> "Jon Berndt" <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote:
> > CASE CLOSED
>
> Outstanding work, Jon. This should be considered required reading for any
> new sci.space.* visitors.
>
> Please add to your web review at:
http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html
>
> My web review of "Betrayal" can be found at:
> http://home.austin.rr.com/sts51lvideo/
>
> Roger
Yep ... it will end up there.
Jon
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Kent Betts <kent_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vi1uha7...@corp.supernews.com...
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org>
wrote in message news:8ds1ivgrqc3a9qcsm...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:06:09 -0500, "Jon Berndt" <j...@hal-pc.dot.org>
> wrote:
>
> >The fact that John Maxson's FOIA copies are poorly printed (overexposed)
> >explains a lot. But, this shows that his use of the words of others is at
> >least sometimes twisted and incomplete, in order to paint the picture he
> >wants to paint.
>
> ...Heh. Heh, heh. Heh, heh, heh. Hee hee hee! Hee Hee HEE!
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!
>
> ...Talk about a major slam-dunk! Jon, you just earned BOD status on
> HORS!!! Someone get that man's personalized highback chair on order!!
>
>
> OM
>
> --
>
> "No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
> his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
> poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
>
> - General George S. Patton, Jr
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org>
wrote in message news:vjv1iv4ibtrcl248k...@4ax.com...
> On 25 Jul 2003 01:10:55 -0700, nola...@nolawyer.com (NoLawyer) wrote:
>
> ...Anyway, I hear the Maxons need an attorney down in Killfile Hell.
> I'm sure they'll trade sexual favors for your services. Have a nice
> stay down there, eh?
>
> <PLONK>
>
> "But OM! You just sent Captain Kangaroo to Killfile Hell!"
>
> "Yeah, and you should have seen what CT was doing with Howdy Doody the
> last time I looked down there..."
Jon Berndt
OM wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:06:09 -0500, "Jon Berndt" <j...@hal-pc.dot.org>
> wrote:
>
> >The fact that John Maxson's FOIA copies are poorly printed (overexposed)
> >explains a lot. But, this shows that his use of the words of others is at
> >least sometimes twisted and incomplete, in order to paint the picture he
> >wants to paint.
>
> ...Heh. Heh, heh. Heh, heh, heh. Hee hee hee! Hee Hee HEE!
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!
>
> ...Talk about a major slam-dunk! Jon, you just earned BOD status on
> HORS!!! Someone get that man's personalized highback chair on order!!
I thought so! I want to hold off on discussion of this topic as much as
possible, but when something like this presents itself, it needs to be
passed on. As I said, the poor copies John Maxson purchased at so much
expense are useless as far as determining which SRB is which via the ID
stripe. We've also seen his two-faced nature in name-dropping.
Jon
John Maxson
upon what you and Pappy are now calling unauthenticated
copies and master copies. FOIA laws have been broken
as well. A class action claim should be duck soup!
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Jon Berndt <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
news:3f21264b$0$54847$a726...@news.hal-pc.org...
John Maxson
>
> Mr. Maxson seemed plenty interested in throwing about
> names when he thought it might help him.
More libel and defamation, I see. Is that all you can do?
> Squirm all you want, John Maxson, the truth is revealed in
> your own words, and from your own sources.
It takes a worm to squirm, Burnt. That's you -- and Dan.
John Maxson
of the crossing as well? "Two-faced name dropping?"
Hardly! Your libel list is getting longer than your nose.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Jon Berndt <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
news:3f212d7b$0$54851$a726...@news.hal-pc.org...
Charleston
> When I spoke with him he remembered lots of details - even page numbers
from
> the Rogers Report.
Reading all of that material, and seeing all of the video and some film
leaves an indelible imprint on your mind. It is unlike anything I have ever
studied in my life. It is why I have been able to quote info from written
sources on the accident fairly frequently and fairly accurately FWIW.
Charleston
> Jon Berndt <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
> > Squirm all you want, John Maxson, the truth is revealed in
> > your own words, and from your own sources.
>
> It takes a worm to squirm, Burnt. That's you -- and Dan.
This from a man who has withheld the truth about Pappy all these years?
Leave me alone.
--
John Maxson
me? The one who won't own up to his own admission of early
knowledge (from O'Connor) of the fireball crossing? I'll have
plenty more to say here about what you've tried to do to me.
Don't ever lecture *me* about withholding information, you
lower than a burnt out maggot!
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Charleston <Charl...@lvcmonedotgoeshere.com> wrote
in message news:SHaUa.41801$zy.31555@fed1read06...
Charleston
his Pappy research on his own AFAIK, FWIW. I learned about it when I saw it
posted.
So when do you revert to the full personal assault posts yet again?
"John Maxson" <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote in message
news:bfrf22$jub$1...@ins22.netins.net...
> This from the son who has constantly belittled and defamed
> me? The one who won't own up to his own admission of early
> knowledge (from O'Connor) of the fireball crossing? I'll have
> plenty more to say here about what you've tried to do to me.
Hardly. Regarding STS 51-L, no one on this planet has supported you over a
longer period of time and did more for you than I have done. No one.
> Don't ever lecture *me* about withholding information, you
> lower than a burnt out maggot!
No one can lecture you, least of all *me*.
John Maxson
in message news:IQbUa.41907$zy.6373@fed1read06...
>
> The truth of the Pappy info is getting to you, so you go
> personal?
"Truth?" You've gone off the deep end.
> Regarding STS 51-L, no one on this planet has supported
> you over a longer period of time and did more for you than
> I have done. No one.
You are an ungrateful liar. You are unfit to bear my name.
You sloughed off copies of what *you* wanted to request.
You sided with my adversaries; to you I was no more than
your token father. Jean-Claude makes you look plain sick.
Dosco Jones
> John Maxson wrote:
>
> Myron (Pappy) Papadakis (a well-known attorney, jumbo-jet pilot, and
> air-crash investigator) always referred to the crossing of the rocket
> boosters in the 51-L fireball as "the switcharoody."
>
Pappy wrote:
> "Thus We were of the opinion that NO SWITCH occurred. This was conveyed to
> Mr. Maxson."
>
> --- end ---
>
Well, that wraps that up.
Dosco
John Maxson
selectively.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Dosco Jones <idontl...@spam.net> wrote in message
news:CEcUa.119445$Io.10...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> "Jon Berndt" <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
> news:3f2073d3$0$54854$a726...@news.hal-pc.org...
>
Sander Vesik
> Jon Berndt <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
> news:3f212804$0$54845$a726...@news.hal-pc.org...
>>
>> Mr. Maxson seemed plenty interested in throwing about
>> names when he thought it might help him.
>
> More libel and defamation, I see. Is that all you can do?
Maybe you should conisder finding out what the terms "libel"
and "defmaion" actually mean? Becuase most of what you call
by them doesn't apepar to be.
> --
> John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
>
--
Sander
+++ Out of cheese error +++
John Maxson
ever do *anything* but hedge?
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Sander Vesik <san...@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote in message
news:10593958...@haldjas.folklore.ee...
Sander Vesik
> "Seemed," "when," "most," "appear?" Do you lame critics
> ever do *anything* but hedge?
>
As a matter of fact - 90% of what you post is not just compltete
rubbish, its downright braindead spamming of the newsgroups over
and over again with formulaic contentfree messages containing
accusations of libel and defamation at the top followed by
message text that has hardly anything to do with such claims or
with the newgroups these are being posted to.
So how about posting some posts that contain new material that
is actually on-topic for teh newsgroups or shutting up ? If there
is no content, there is nothing really to critisize, only to filter.
John Maxson
is done about it. That includes the abuse you contribute.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Sander Vesik <san...@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote in message
news:10594047...@haldjas.folklore.ee...
Scott M. Kozel
>
> Sci.space abuse is on topic for sci.space, until something
> is done about it. That includes the abuse you contribute.
Maxson's apparently blind to the massive amounts of abuse that HE
contributes.
> Sander Vesik <san...@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote
John Maxson
<http://www.google.com/groups?&selm=bf70kk%24i1h%241%40ins22.netins.net>
.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Scott M. Kozel <koz...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3F254907...@attbi.com...
Scott M. Kozel
>
> My posts generally run along these lines:
>
> <http://www.google.com/groups?&selm=bf70kk%24i1h%241%40ins22.netins.net>
Oh, the deceptively attributed alleged missive, that you never would
answer my questions about, after about a dozen posts several weeks ago
where I requested you to do that.
Most of your posts are a whine the "abuse" you think you are subject to.
> Scott M. Kozel <koz...@attbi.com> wrote
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Scott M. Kozel <koz...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3F254FE2...@attbi.com...
Scott M. Kozel
attributions of the alleged missive.
"John Maxson" <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
>
> What took you so long, to continue whining for Mosley?
>
John Maxson
to changing the subject, you should change the title.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Scott M. Kozel <koz...@attbi.com> wrote
in message news:3F255443...@attbi.com...
Scott M. Kozel
>
> The subject title hasn't changed. If you're reduced
> to changing the subject, you should change the title.
What difference would that make? You avoid inconvenient questions, no
matter what the thread header.
> > Oh, the deceptively attributed alleged missive, that you never would
> > answer my questions about, after about a dozen posts several weeks ago
> > where I requested you to do that.
> Scott M. Kozel <koz...@attbi.com> wrote
>
Moe Blues
<koz...@attbi.com> wrote:
> See? He tries to change the subject, again, rather than discuss the
> attributions of the alleged missive.
>
> "John Maxson" <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
> >
> > What took you so long, to continue whining for Mosley?
Face it--Maxson's a moron. You, I, and many other people have tried to
engage him in discussion in a rational fashion. However, failing to
agree absolutely with his lunacy, or daring to question his sources or
assumptions, draws nonsense such as you have experienced.
It is painfully clear that, while Maxson may have something worthwhile
to say, he is utterly unable to either explain or support his
contentions. This is a shame. Where he willing to actually engage in
discussion, instead of flapdoodle such as this thread, he might
contribute something truly worthwhile.
Moe
John Maxson
and defamation from Usenetserver.com.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Moe Blues <ho...@uranus.butt> wrote in message
news:280720031435413122%ho...@uranus.butt...
John Maxson
discussion. You're here to discredit me and my book.
You're looking for "debate;" I'm here for discussion.
If you can't "debate," you switch to the third-degree.
You resort to off-the-wall insults. You fail to stay on
topic. Like Katz, you employ aggravation by repetition
(using the same rudely put, presumptive questions).
.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Scott M. Kozel <koz...@attbi.com> wrote
in message news:3F256B6E...@attbi.com...
Doug...
san...@haldjas.folklore.ee says...
> In sci.space.policy John Maxson <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
> > Jon Berndt <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
> > news:3f212804$0$54845$a726...@news.hal-pc.org...
> >>
> >> Mr. Maxson seemed plenty interested in throwing about
> >> names when he thought it might help him.
> >
> > More libel and defamation, I see. Is that all you can do?
>
> Maybe you should conisder finding out what the terms "libel"
> and "defmaion" actually mean? Becuase most of what you call
> by them doesn't apepar to be.
"I do not think that word means what you think it means." -Inigo
Montoya, "The Princess Bride."
--
It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... | dvan...@mn.rr.com
Scott M. Kozel
>
> You quickly disable rational overtures toward ethical
> discussion.
Maxson slander and personal abuse.
> You're here to discredit me and my book.
No, I asked questions.
> You're looking for "debate;" I'm here for discussion.
> If you can't "debate," you switch to the third-degree.
>
> You resort to off-the-wall insults.
Pot, kettle, black.
> You fail to stay on topic.
Pot, kettle, black.
> Like Katz, you employ aggravation by repetition
> (using the same rudely put, presumptive questions).
You continually refuse to answer direct questions.
Look, your conspiracy theories implicitly attack many people. You flood
these newsgroups on a daily basis with your conspiracy theories. The
way I see it, you have an obligation to answer the questions that are
posed to you about your conspiracy theories, unless you don't want your
conspiracy theories to be taken seriously.
> > Oh, the deceptively attributed alleged missive, that you never would
> > answer my questions about, after about a dozen posts several weeks ago
> > where I requested you to do that.
The way that you worded that missive, makes it unclear whether A. Ernest
Fitzgerald is speaking or merely citing what YOU said.
The fact that you refuse to clear up that issue after repeated requests,
makes me wonder if you are here for honest discussion, or else you're
just a common conspiricist.
> Scott M. Kozel <koz...@attbi.com> wrote
John Maxson
You can't seem to get even the most basic things straight.
Conspiracy "theories," refusal "to answer" to impudence,
"implicitly" attack, "flood these newsgroups on a daily basis,"
"*you* worded that missive," "*Fitzgerald* is speaking,"
and the like place you well out to lunch. Don't expect a free
one from me without some retractions and a bit of humility.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Scott M. Kozel <koz...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3F25842A...@attbi.com...
> "John Maxson" <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
>
> You continually refuse to answer direct questions.
>
> Look, your conspiracy theories implicitly attack many people. You flood
> these newsgroups on a daily basis with your conspiracy theories. The
> way I see it, you have an obligation to answer the questions that are
> posed to you about your conspiracy theories, unless you don't want your
> conspiracy theories to be taken seriously.
<snip>
Scott M. Kozel
>
> What are your credentials for deriding me about Challenger?
>
> You can't seem to get even the most basic things straight.
> Conspiracy "theories," refusal "to answer" to impudence,
> "implicitly" attack, "flood these newsgroups on a daily basis,"
> "*you* worded that missive," "*Fitzgerald* is speaking,"
> and the like place you well out to lunch. Don't expect a free
> one from me without some retractions and a bit of humility.
More Barbara Streisand, handwaving and excuses.
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Scott M. Kozel <koz...@attbi.com> wrote
in message news:3F25AD0D...@attbi.com...
Sander Vesik
> Sci.space abuse is on topic for sci.space, until something
> is done about it. That includes the abuse you contribute.
>
What abuse?
Sander Vesik
> In article <10593958...@haldjas.folklore.ee>,
> san...@haldjas.folklore.ee says...
>> In sci.space.policy John Maxson <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
>> > Jon Berndt <j...@hal-pc.dot.org> wrote in message
>> > news:3f212804$0$54845$a726...@news.hal-pc.org...
>> >>
>> >> Mr. Maxson seemed plenty interested in throwing about
>> >> names when he thought it might help him.
>> >
>> > More libel and defamation, I see. Is that all you can do?
>>
>> Maybe you should conisder finding out what the terms "libel"
>> and "defmaion" actually mean? Becuase most of what you call
>> by them doesn't apepar to be.
>
> "I do not think that word means what you think it means." -Inigo
> Montoya, "The Princess Bride."
>
8-)
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Sander Vesik <san...@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote in message
news:10594394...@haldjas.folklore.ee...
Sander Vesik
> The abuse you snipped, for starters.
>
There was no abuse in the part what I snipped. But you are
welcome to prove that there was. Just copy, paste and
mark the abuse from the part I snipped. And if it was just
"for starters" I'm sure you will be able to provide pointers
to other abuse aswell, right?
John Maxson
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Sander Vesik <san...@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote in message
news:10594989...@haldjas.folklore.ee...
John Maxson
for Illuminati Online.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org>
wrote in message news:817fiv0oq8st68u89...@4ax.com...
> On 30 Jul 2003 01:16:32 -0700, kent...@techisp.com (Kent Betts)
> wrote:
>
> >"John Maxson" <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote in message
news:<bfrmh2$14$1...@ins22.netins.net>...
>
> ...Not that the feeble old molester cares one iota. Just killfile him
> like everyone else should, and be done with him.
>
>
> OM
>
> --
>
> "No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
> his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
> poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
>
> - General George S. Patton, Jr
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
John Maxson <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
>Giganews posts/hosts Bob Mosley's neverending abuse
>for Illuminati Online.
Look, you might have differing views on certain issues than may people
here, but I don't know why you think that gives you the right to
generally abuse the newsgroup the way you do. There is no need
for all the cross-posting, and messing up of subject lines they way
you do. Not to mention that stuff like you wrote just is
unintelligeable.
Perhaps you could grow up some, and play nicely? I don't know how you
expect anyone to respect your opinions, when abuse the group so badly.
Nick
John Maxson
little need for me to continue to post abuse messages. It
seems reasonable for someone other than myself and Scott
Grissom to call for a halt to this abuse, but I don't see any
signs of anything here but support for BM (Herbs, et al).
Try contacting Mosley's belligerent ISPs (Illuminati Online
and Giganews) with mass mailings about his abuse, or try
consistently giving him a ration here the way you do me.
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Nicholas Fitzpatrick <nf...@sentex.ca> wrote in message
news:3f27ca3e$1...@news.sentex.net...
Sander Vesik
As a matter of fact - 90% of what you post is not just compltete
rubbish, its downright braindead spamming of the newsgroups over
and over again with formulaic contentfree messages containing
accusations of libel and defamation at the top followed by
message text that has hardly anything to do with such claims or
with the newgroups these are being posted to.
So how about posting some posts that contain new material that
is actually on-topic for teh newsgroups or shutting up ? If there
is no content, there is nothing really to critisize, only to filter.
So, highlight any abusive and/or untrue statements in this. Or maybe there
is after all, no truth in anything you say?
>
> --
> John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
>
>
>
> Sander Vesik <san...@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote in message
> news:10594989...@haldjas.folklore.ee...
>>
>> There was no abuse in the part what I snipped.
>
>
--
John Maxson
>
> As a matter of fact - 90% of what you post is not just compltete
> rubbish, its downright braindead spamming of the newsgroups over
> and over again with formulaic contentfree messages containing
> accusations of libel and defamation at the top followed by
> message text that has hardly anything to do with such claims or
> with the newgroups these are being posted to.
>
You just did that for me. If you don't like the Mosley-led
'no redeeming social value' abuse, attack the source with
your libel. Mosley posts the abuse; I post abuse notices.
As John J. Sirica so well put it:
"It was shameful the way the question of guilt or
innocence kept getting turned into a question of
politics."
"... regardless of political risk, no self-respecting
politician could ignore the hard evidence."
Nicholas Fitzpatrick
John Maxson <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
>When the Mosley-led abuse stops, hopefully there will be
>little need for me to continue to post abuse messages. It
>seems reasonable for someone other than myself and Scott
>Grissom to call for a halt to this abuse, but I don't see any
>signs of anything here but support for BM (Herbs, et al).
There is never a need to spam newsgroups the way you have been doing.
I don't know who BM is ... and I'm not even sure who Mosley is, but
you are the one creating havoc with my newsreader by tieing all
these threads together all the time. I keep asking you politely to
stop. I'm not saying you are not entitled to your views, just
to discuss them without munging the subjects, and trying to spam all
these other unrelated newgroups; I'm sure if anyone there is interested,
they can find the thread here.
>Try contacting Mosley's belligerent ISPs (Illuminati Online
>and Giganews) with mass mailings about his abuse, or try
>consistently giving him a ration here the way you do me.
It will be your ISP I'll be contacting shortly! If anyone else
tries to create the havoc you have been creating, I'll tackle them
later.
Nick
John Maxson
Senator about your suspicions concerning selective snippage?
--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
Kent Betts <kent...@techisp.com> wrote in message
news:f8550ab3.03073...@posting.google.com...
> "John Maxson" <max...@iowatelecom.net> wrote in message
news:<bfrmh2$14$1...@ins22.netins.net>...
>
> > Only for jerks like you, who read selectively and look
> > selectively.
>
> You seem to have started a new thread for the purpose of posting
> an ad hominem remark. This is inappropriate and a little rude.