Enterprise music
Scott Hedrick
that it was an especially nice song appearing as it did so close to 9/11.
I finally learned to accept it, and now, even as the show is turning darker,
they jazz the instrumental and make it lighter. It's hard to take it
seriously. At least B5 got more "militaristic" as the show got more serious
and lightened up as things got better.
The music within the episode seems to be OK, but the theme song music is
definitely wrong.
--
If you have had problems with Illinois Student Assistance Commission (ISAC),
please contact shredder at bellsouth dot net. There may be a class-action
lawsuit
in the works.
OM
<spam...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>The music within the episode seems to be OK, but the theme song music is
>definitely wrong.
...No, the theme song is a piece of fecal matter, piled 12 feet high
and steaming hot, with the stench being force-fed through the nostrils
by a wind tunnel. The only reason Rick Berman refuses to acknowledge
the vast majority of fans who call for its replacement - and his head
in the process - is that he's simply refusing to admit he's wrong out
of pure, simple ego. He needs to consider what Gene would do in this
case, and give the show a theme song that's worthy of the heritage.
On the other hand, if he'd done what Gene would have done, that
recycled Rod Stuart song would have been relegated to the 99cent bins
where it deserves to rot...
OM
--
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
- General George S. Patton, Jr
Hallerb
>...No, the theme song is a piece of fecal matter, piled 12 feet high
>and steaming hot, with the stench being force-fed through the nostr
I agree, its not trek, and leads a list of problems with the show.
For whatever reason I am loosing interest in the new season, the shows just
lack something.
Is it just me?
Jay Windley
"Hallerb" <hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030925085351...@mb-m22.aol.com...
|
| For whatever reason I am loosing interest in the new season, the
| shows just lack something.
|
| Is it just me?
No, it's pretty much everybody.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/968238.asp?0dm=L16TL
Star Trek once told stories that no other show could tell, or at the worst
wrapped traditional themes in a breakout context. Now it's just the same
Hollywood pablum, by the numbers. None of the characters makes me care
about him; they're largely the same undifferentiated mush that populates
most of formulaic television: dramaturgically equalized personalities
applying straightforward behavior to solve manufactured crises.
"Captain, the TECH is TECHING!"
"Perform a TECH with the TECH"
"It's working; the TECH has stabilized"
Sounds funny, but that's exactly the way the scripts are written. Then the
professional geeks populate the TECH with "phased tachyon pulse" or whatever
the buzzword of the week is. Why am I expected to be alarmed, impressed, or
emotionally moved by that? The script should be compelling *before* it's
decorated with
The previous incarnations of the franchise found some circumstance that
drove the drama. The original Star Trek had its novelty. The Next
Generation had its deeply human captain and its fishes out of water. Deep
Space Nine had its unfolding galactic sociology, and Voyager relied on
isolation and improvisation. The latest series seems like a standard
Hollywood operation with the Star Trek name slapped on it.
I detest the title music in "Enterprise", but I absolutely love the visuals.
The montage is excellent.
--
|
The universe is not required to conform | Jay Windley
to the expectations of the ignorant. | webmaster @ clavius.org
Jonathan Silverlight
<webm...@clavius.org> writes
>
>I detest the title music in "Enterprise", but I absolutely love the visuals.
>The montage is excellent.
>
is all-American - it would have been nice to see Yuri Gagarin, for
instance.
Can someone tell me which ship follows the Phoenix in the montage?
I was saddened to see that Enterprise is having ratings and story
problems; season two has only just started here and "Carbon Creek" was
pure delight. On topic, yet :-)
--
"Forty millions of miles it was from us, more than forty millions of miles of
void"
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.
Andre Lieven
> In message <bkv614$723$1...@terabinaries.xmission.com>, Jay Windley
> <webm...@clavius.org> writes
>>
>>I detest the title music in "Enterprise", but I absolutely love the visuals.
>>The montage is excellent.
>>
> There have been (justified, IMO) complaints over here that the montage
> is all-American - it would have been nice to see Yuri Gagarin, for
> instance.
Indeed. But, its a standard US teevee show, nothing extraordinary
about it, so is anyone surprised ?
No Sputnik, No Gagarin, no Luna 9, no Salyuts, no Soyuz ( Aside
from one docked at ISS )....
> Can someone tell me which ship follows the Phoenix in the montage?
I don't know the type, perhaps its a pre Warp 4 Starfleet ship,
type as yet not seen ?
Its not like they knew what they were doing, when they started...
Note that the early bios for the characters didn't even specify
a planet of origin for Dr. Flox...
> I was saddened to see that Enterprise is having ratings and story
> problems; season two has only just started here and "Carbon Creek" was
> pure delight. On topic, yet :-)
It gets... worse... :-( Nothing good to report about season three,
as of yet, three episodes in ( As of last night ).
I miss Babylon 5...
Andre
--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.
Jay Windley
"Jonathan Silverlight" <jsilve...@spam.merseia.fsnet.co.uk.invalid> wrote
in message news:fQ33nmUYozc$Ew...@merseia.fsnet.co.uk...
|
| There have been (justified, IMO) complaints over here that
| the montage is all-American
I hadn't thought of that. Good point. Part of the message of Star Trek has
been the unity of the human race. That's partly why Chekov was added to the
original cast. Well, that and because he looked like Davy Jones from the
Monkees. Even the most nationalistic American would have to acknowledge the
Soviets if just to note that they provided a worthy competitor.
OM
<jsilve...@spam.merseia.fsnet.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>There have been (justified, IMO) complaints over here that the montage
>is all-American - it would have been nice to see Yuri Gagarin, for
>instance.
...There's a lot of room for improvement there, the inclusion of
Gagarin and Leonov, for starters. Of course, getting a *REAL* theme
song would do wonders, natch.
>Can someone tell me which ship follows the Phoenix in the montage?
...It's *supposedly* one of the two ship designs seen in the 2nd
season finale that pull Archer's ass out of the Klingon fire. However,
this hasn't been confirmed yet through official sources.
...Of course, what's really needed is for mention to be made about the
loss of the Valiant.
Brian Thorn
<jsilve...@spam.merseia.fsnet.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>There have been (justified, IMO) complaints over here that the montage
>is all-American
It isn't, unless those early sailors were proto-Americans and those
warp ships have the US flag on them.
> - it would have been nice to see Yuri Gagarin, for
>instance.
As I recall, Berman & Co. mentioned in an article around the time
"Enterprise" premiered that they tried to get some footage of Gagarin
and Sputnik, but that the Russian sources asked too much money for it.
And is it just me, or is that launch footage showing three Apollo
astronauts actually footage from _From the Earth to the Moon_?
>Can someone tell me which ship follows the Phoenix in the montage?
It hasn't been identified, it's just some second-generation warp ship.
>I was saddened to see that Enterprise is having ratings and story
>problems; season two has only just started here and "Carbon Creek" was
>pure delight. On topic, yet :-)
I liked "Carbon Creek" too, but the reviews of it online were just
scathing. Season 2's ratings declined (but then, pretty much all of US
network TV's ratings declined in 2002-03) but IMO it was better than
Season 1. You've got "Dead Stop" and "Minefield" coming up next, two
very good episodes.
Brian
Mike Dicenso
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Jonathan Silverlight wrote:
> In message <bkv614$723$1...@terabinaries.xmission.com>, Jay Windley
> <webm...@clavius.org> writes
> >
> >I detest the title music in "Enterprise", but I absolutely love the visuals.
> >The montage is excellent.
> >
> There have been (justified, IMO) complaints over here that the montage
> is all-American - it would have been nice to see Yuri Gagarin, for
> instance.
It would have been nice to see Yuri. However the montage is not
all-American, if you look closely enough. For example, towards the
begining there is a sailing ship seen in silhouette and the words "H.M.S.
Enterprize" fade in and fade out.
-Mike
Mike Dicenso
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, OM wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:55:20 +0100, Jonathan Silverlight
> <jsilve...@spam.merseia.fsnet.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>
> >There have been (justified, IMO) complaints over here that the montage
> >is all-American - it would have been nice to see Yuri Gagarin, for
> >instance.
>
> ...There's a lot of room for improvement there, the inclusion of
> Gagarin and Leonov, for starters. Of course, getting a *REAL* theme
> song would do wonders, natch.
>
> >Can someone tell me which ship follows the Phoenix in the montage?
>
> ...It's *supposedly* one of the two ship designs seen in the 2nd
> season finale that pull Archer's ass out of the Klingon fire. However,
> this hasn't been confirmed yet through official sources.
The design looks also to based on the Ralph McQuarrie/Ken Adam
"stardestroyer" Enterprise redesign for the abandoned "Star Trek: Planet
of Titans" movie project.
> ...Of course, what's really needed is for mention to be made about the
> loss of the Valiant.
The Valiant's disappearence is almost a century before ENT's timeframe; it
was actually cool that they mentioned Cochrane's disappearance in "Future
Tense" as being a canidate for the the mystery ship and it's lone human
occupant. So far there hasn't been any kind of a good situation for the
Valiant's loss to be brought up the way there was for Cochrane's.
A nice touch in "First Flight" though was seeing the ringship Enterprise
make a cameo as a picture on the wall of the bar Archer is in.
-Mike
Brian Thorn
<om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org>
wrote:
>...There's a lot of room for improvement there, the inclusion of
>Gagarin and Leonov, for starters. Of course, getting a *REAL* theme
>song would do wonders, natch.
I've always liked the music played during the closing theme, although
they could ease off on the guitars a little.
Anyway, the main theme may be changing. Rumor has it Paramount/UPN
commissioned at least one new theme song over the summer (and the
retooling of "Faith of the Heart" doesn't fit those rumors.) The new
theme music may accompany the switch to "Star Trek: Enterprise" in the
titles.
>...Of course, what's really needed is for mention to be made about the
>loss of the Valiant.
I think there is absolutely no hope of that. It's far too obscure a
reference for Berman & Co. to worry about (they've ignored much bigger
things, like cloaking devices being a shock to Kirk's crew.)
I think "Enterprise" could become a great show, but that won't happen
as long as it is controlled by Berman & Co., who have shown only
contempt for Star Trek history and are now almost completely devoid of
creativity.
Brian
Pat Flannery
Brian Thorn wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:55:20 +0100, Jonathan Silverlight
><jsilve...@spam.merseia.fsnet.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>There have been (justified, IMO) complaints over here that the montage
>>is all-American
>>
>>
>
>It isn't, unless those early sailors were proto-Americans and those
>warp ships have the US flag on them.
>
And I think the balloon is Auguste Piccard's floating over the Alps,
isn't it?
Pat
Doug...
says...
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:50:23 -0600, OM
> <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org>
> wrote:
>
> >...There's a lot of room for improvement there, the inclusion of
> >Gagarin and Leonov, for starters. Of course, getting a *REAL* theme
> >song would do wonders, natch.
>
> I've always liked the music played during the closing theme, although
> they could ease off on the guitars a little.
The closing theme IS the original opening theme, just orchestrated
differently. As I posted earlier, there was a version of the opening
(same visual montage) with the original orchestral theme. The orchestral
theme is sprightly and upbeat, and as the NX-01 appears for the first
time, transmutes into a fluting rendition of the teaser from the
Alexander Courage theme to the original series, with its final punch as
NX-01 pops off into warp. It really blends and works well.
I found an avi version of the opening with the orchestral theme on one of
those file sharing services (WinMX, to be exact). I've watched it
several times.
I, for one, would like to see them start using that theme in the opening.
> Anyway, the main theme may be changing. Rumor has it Paramount/UPN
> commissioned at least one new theme song over the summer (and the
> retooling of "Faith of the Heart" doesn't fit those rumors.) The new
> theme music may accompany the switch to "Star Trek: Enterprise" in the
> titles.
Again, I hope they keep the montage in place but revert to the orchestral
theme. I like the "Faith of the Heart" version, honestly, but not nearly
as much as I like the orchestral theme.
> >...Of course, what's really needed is for mention to be made about the
> >loss of the Valiant.
>
> I think there is absolutely no hope of that. It's far too obscure a
> reference for Berman & Co. to worry about (they've ignored much bigger
> things, like cloaking devices being a shock to Kirk's crew.)
They're facing a very difficult challenge, to make this show recognizably
Star Trek to those who grew up on Next Gen and its successors, but not
invalidate anything established in the show's "future."
> I think "Enterprise" could become a great show, but that won't happen
> as long as it is controlled by Berman & Co., who have shown only
> contempt for Star Trek history and are now almost completely devoid of
> creativity.
I've heard the same complaints ever since Berman & Co. took over the
franchise. But I remain entertained by their product.
--
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for | Doug Van Dorn
thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup | dvan...@mn.rr.com
Doug...
says...
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:55:20 +0100, Jonathan Silverlight
> <jsilve...@spam.merseia.fsnet.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> >There have been (justified, IMO) complaints over here that the montage
> >is all-American
>
> It isn't, unless those early sailors were proto-Americans and those
> warp ships have the US flag on them.
>
> > - it would have been nice to see Yuri Gagarin, for
> >instance.
>
> As I recall, Berman & Co. mentioned in an article around the time
> "Enterprise" premiered that they tried to get some footage of Gagarin
> and Sputnik, but that the Russian sources asked too much money for it.
>
> And is it just me, or is that launch footage showing three Apollo
> astronauts actually footage from _From the Earth to the Moon_?
No, it isn't. I believe it is the video feed from the ASTP launch. That
was the only Apollo launch that had a TV camera broadcasting from within
the cabin.
> >Can someone tell me which ship follows the Phoenix in the montage?
>
> It hasn't been identified, it's just some second-generation warp ship.
I read somewhere that it's supposed to be the Horizon, but I don't know
where they got that idea.
> >I was saddened to see that Enterprise is having ratings and story
> >problems; season two has only just started here and "Carbon Creek" was
> >pure delight. On topic, yet :-)
>
> I liked "Carbon Creek" too, but the reviews of it online were just
> scathing. Season 2's ratings declined (but then, pretty much all of US
> network TV's ratings declined in 2002-03) but IMO it was better than
> Season 1. You've got "Dead Stop" and "Minefield" coming up next, two
> very good episodes.
Yes, very good episodes. And on the other hand, you have "Catwalk"
coming up, which is a little cliched. OK, a lot cliched.
LooseChanj
<dvandor...@mn.rr.com> made the sensational claim that:
> They're facing a very difficult challenge, to make this show recognizably
> Star Trek to those who grew up on Next Gen and its successors, but not
> invalidate anything established in the show's "future."
They did that from day 1, which is what made me stop watching. This is supposed
to be 100 years prior to TOS, and they have ALL THE SAME TECHNOLOGY. What an
absolute crock. I tuned in after awhile to see if it had gotten any better,
and what do I see? Ferenghi. Jesus. Oh, and if the Enterprise is supposed to
be "exploring", what the fudge are cargo ships doing flying around? Weren't
the vulcans objecting to sending Enterprise out because humans weren't ready?
The show is just one huge plot hole.
--
This is a siggy | To E-mail, do note | This space is for rent
It's properly formatted | who you mean to reply-to | Inquire within if you
No person, none, care | and it will reach me | Would like your ad here
Brian Thorn
wrote:
>> I've always liked the music played during the closing theme, although
>> they could ease off on the guitars a little.
>The closing theme IS the original opening theme, just orchestrated
>differently.
No, it isn't. Although I know what you're talking about... the
"instrumental" version of FOTH that accompanied the pilot episode's
closing credits. The closing theme ever since is entirely different,
consisting of horns and guitars in a totally different melody.
I'm pretty sure the closing music is a Dennis McCarthy original that
was rejected as the main theme in favor of "something different" for
Star Trek.
Brian
Brian Thorn
wrote:
>> And is it just me, or is that launch footage showing three Apollo
>> astronauts actually footage from _From the Earth to the Moon_?
>
>No, it isn't. I believe it is the video feed from the ASTP launch. That
>was the only Apollo launch that had a TV camera broadcasting from within
>the cabin.
I figured it unlikely, but one of those guys sure looks like Tim Daly
(Lovell in E2M).
>> I liked "Carbon Creek" too, but the reviews of it online were just
>> scathing. Season 2's ratings declined (but then, pretty much all of US
>> network TV's ratings declined in 2002-03) but IMO it was better than
>> Season 1. You've got "Dead Stop" and "Minefield" coming up next, two
>> very good episodes.
>
>Yes, very good episodes. And on the other hand, you have "Catwalk"
>coming up, which is a little cliched. OK, a lot cliched.
I liked "Catwalk". The real Cliche King, I thought, was "Precious
Cargo" with Trip and the spoiled princess.
Brian
Doug...
says...
I'm sorry, I wasn't communicating clearly. What I meant to say was that
the closing theme is the same piece of music I have seen the opening
montage set to in what was called the "Enterprise Alternate Intro" or
"Enterprise Alternate Opening." The main theme (which as far as I know
is indeed the Dennis McCarthy original) was orchestrated and used to
score the opening montage. It is the same music, but orchestrated
differently.
A copy of this alternate opening, which was rejected in favor of the
Faith of the Heart opening, is downloadable on various peer-to-peer file
sharing networks such as Kazaa and WinMX.
In fact, if anyone wants a copy, it's an mpg file (I misspoke earlier)
that's about 12MB or so in size -- if your e-mail server will handle a
file that size, I'll send it to you. (My RoadRunner e-mail server will
handle it, I've sent files that size with it before.)
OM
<mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:
>The design looks also to based on the Ralph McQuarrie/Ken Adam
>"stardestroyer" Enterprise redesign for the abandoned "Star Trek: Planet
>of Titans" movie project.
...If you squint really hard, and you're really, really drunk. Maybe.
OM
wrote:
>As I recall, Berman & Co. mentioned in an article around the time
>"Enterprise" premiered that they tried to get some footage of Gagarin
>and Sputnik, but that the Russian sources asked too much money for it.
...Which is a total crock of shit. Can you say "public domain news
sources", kids?
OM
wrote:
>In fact, if anyone wants a copy, it's an mpg file (I misspoke earlier)
>that's about 12MB or so in size -- if your e-mail server will handle a
>file that size, I'll send it to you. (My RoadRunner e-mail server will
>handle it, I've sent files that size with it before.)
...Actually, the thing to do is to take all the capped versions on the
web and replace FOTH(*) with it. Of course, what's really bad is that
if Berman wanted a "rock" theme, he already fucking *had* one that
worked quite well. The Calling's "Wherevery You May Go" was used in
the promo clips before the series premiered, and it worked
surprisingly well. However, when Berman, obviously after a night of
doing bad narcotics, cheap booze, and listening to old Rod Stuart
records while flagellating himself, apparently failed to notice this
and replaced it with a totally inappropriate song.
The entire industry thought it was a move so stupid that in the pilot
episode of "Smallville", which showed up that week, they used that
Calling song deliberately as a stab at Berman.
(*) Which stands for the condition that Berman & Co were in when he
decided to use the song - Fucked Outta Their Heads!
OM
wrote:
>I'm pretty sure the closing music is a Dennis McCarthy original that
>was rejected as the main theme in favor of "something different" for
>Star Trek.
...The leaks I've gotten out of Paranoidmount point to this, as well
as the original choice for the "rock" them being the song by The
Calling, "Wherever You May Go", which was used in the pre-premier
promos. A far better song, and the fact that it was used in the promos
managed to get the song a *lot* of sudden airplay on formula stations
- read: stations owned by that conglomerated shithole, ClearChannel -
where they'd turned a deaf ear to it because it wasn't Britney Spears
or Beyonce Knowles masturbatory quasiteenybopper whinings about never
getting laid because their booties were too licious or some outright
bullshit lie.
Oh yeah, I'm on a roll tonight, kids, for after hearing nothing but
ghetto muzak for the past three days, I now understand why the
previous generation was all up in arms about rock & roll in its
original form...
OM
wrote:
>Weren't the vulcans objecting to sending Enterprise out because humans weren't ready?
...They felt they weren't ready to go outside of the range of the Warp
2 to 2.5 vessels, such as the cargo ones. That kept humanity "within a
reasonable sized cradle" and hopefully out of trouble. What's
interesting about this Vulcan attitude is that it makes Diane Duane's
_Spock's World_ that much more believable and acceptable as canon. It
shows that Vulcans know pride and egotism, and can be blinded to the
fact by their belief that they're in total control of their emotions.
I strongly predict that by the end of the series we'll see the entire
*planet* get their comeuppance, and probably with Trip giving them the
asschewing of all asschewings, in a southern accent natch.
OM
wrote:
>I read somewhere that it's supposed to be the Horizon, but I don't know
>where they got that idea.
...Which blows totally the already established fact that the Horizon
was a completely different class of vessel, one of the "original TOS
Enterprise" designs that Matt Jeffries did with a command *sphere*
instead of the saucer.
OM
<Edd...@noaddress.com> wrote:
>No, it isn't just you. I think the series started out pretty well -
>and then did a slow and continous slide downhill from then on.
...It's had some good points. Off the top of my head:
1) The Andorians. Nice reintroduction of them into the series. If
Berman had a clue, he'd bring one or two along for the ride into the
Expanse, after, say, the Xindi pulled the same stunt on Andor.
2) Having five separate Xindi species is an idea that's been needed to
be used on Trek for years. Every planet has one race due to budget
concerns, but as we both know there's no guarantee that only one
species will evolve to intellectual dominance. Just ask our friends
the Dolphins, the Porpoises and the Democrats.
3) We now know what a Class J cargo ship is like, and where the baffle
plates are likely located so as to make it easier to envision Chris
Pike getting fried.
4) The computers are not all voiced by Majel, and have almost no AI to
speak of.
5) Screw the rest of you, I like the concept of Dr. Phlox using
holistic medicine and herbal cures. In fact, I'd give my left nut for
Irene Ryan to come back from the dead long enough to make a guest
appearance as Phlox's Granny and show everyone where he picked up most
of his medical knowledge. And yes, that includes a scene involving her
and Trip exchanging rheumatis medicine recipies :-)
6) The fact that the transporter isn't used every damn episode, and
that the shuttles are the primary way to get to and from a planet.
Now, if only they'd *name* the damn things...
7) I like the jumpsuits, but the color bands need to be more distinct.
The shoulder patch works nice, but some additional badges of rank and
distinction couldn't hurt, such as years of service bars or medal
ribbons.
8) T'Pol's viewer. 'Nuff said.
...On the other hand, there's some bad point that annoy me:
1) The sets are too fucking blue-grey-metal for my tastes. Make the
bridge doors red, dammit! Put some color into the ship, or at least
use some color gels!
2) The transporter looks like...well, it looks like crap. The controls
aren't bad, but the pad itself is banal if not lame.
3) The tricorders are too PDA for my tastes. Make them bigger,
resembling the TOS versions.
4) We need more throwaway mentions of TOS, TNG and other series
locations. Something for the trek geeks to go "cool!"
5) We need an episode where the five Xindi are given names that are
anagrams of those five whining dorks that Trekweb always uses for
their reviews. And they all need to die horrible deaths while whining.
6) We need a Xindi named Lauper, just so I can make asinine comments
:-P
7) There is no 7)
8) There is an 8), tho. Hoshi needs to be given more to do, lest she
turn into a proto-Uhura for good. Put her in the command chair and
watch all hell break loose when she actually finds she *likes* it
there.
9) Archer needs a yeoman. Female, blonde, with big tits. Why not? It's
not as if Archer's doing any romancing, now is he?
Scott Hedrick
news:bkvim8$suf$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
> It gets... worse... :-( Nothing good to report about season three,
> as of yet, three episodes in ( As of last night ).
Last night was the standard Transform the Crew into Aliens episode. Ho hum.
Could have been worse- according to Voyager, in 10 millions years we turn
into salamanders.
--
If you have had problems with Illinois Student Assistance Commission (ISAC),
please contact shredder at bellsouth dot net. There may be a class-action
lawsuit
in the works.
Scott Hedrick
in message news:a5q7nv0kbkf2n0lcl...@4ax.com...
> I strongly predict that by the end of the series we'll see the entire
> *planet* get their comeuppance, and probably with Trip giving them the
> asschewing of all asschewings, in a southern accent natch.
It's so nice to hear a character on TV who *talks right*. Hasn't been the
same since Bones died. Of course, Calleigh on CSI: Miami does it nicely, and
in a much nicer package (more of which was seen in the movie "Breast Men").
Scott Hedrick
in message news:kgq7nvg9f6ogv6qe8...@4ax.com...
> 1) The Andorians. Nice reintroduction of them into the series.
Especially with Jeffrey Coombs. However, the makeup looks like blue clown
paint poorly smeared. TOS did it better. The moving antennae is great.
> 2) Having five separate Xindi species is an idea that's been needed to
> be used on Trek for years.
Especially some that are entirely computer generated (although it's hard to
believe that such disparate species are related).
> 4) The computers are not all voiced by Majel, and have almost no AI to
> speak of.
Sure they do- Berman & Co.
> 5) Screw the rest of you, I like the concept of Dr. Phlox using
> holistic medicine and herbal cures.
I hate that holistic shit in real life, but it's great to see it in the
show. Now, if only Dr. Phlox also kept the "medicinal bourbon" as well...
Also nice to see that at least one of his wives is both hot and hot blooded,
and that he's OK about it, thus furthering his hippie personality.
In fact, I'd give my left nut for
> Irene Ryan to come back from the dead long enough to make a guest
> appearance as Phlox's Granny and show everyone where he picked up most
> of his medical knowledge.
Well, John Wayne was shilling beer after he died, and Fred Astaire sold
vacuums, so this isn't impossible.
> 6) The fact that the transporter isn't used every damn episode, and
> that the shuttles are the primary way to get to and from a planet.
Something that becomes impossible a hundred years later :)
> 7) I like the jumpsuits, but the color bands need to be more distinct.
*Definitely*.
> The shoulder patch works nice, but some additional badges of rank and
> distinction couldn't hurt, such as years of service bars or medal
> ribbons.
Give them time.
> 8) T'Pol's viewer. 'Nuff said.
Also, some of the more subtle sound effects. I wish the "tactical alert"
sound was the same as the TOS "red alert" sound.
> 1) The sets are too fucking blue-grey-metal for my tastes. Make the
> bridge doors red, dammit! Put some color into the ship, or at least
> use some color gels!
Well, they do use blue gels in the decon room :P
> 2) The transporter looks like...well, it looks like crap. The controls
> aren't bad, but the pad itself is banal if not lame.
You'd also think it would be in its own room, and not taking up cooridor
space.
> 3) The tricorders are too PDA for my tastes. Make them bigger,
> resembling the TOS versions.
They are far too small when compared to TOS. They should be bulkier, and
there should be specialized versions because all of the functions can't fit
in one. TOS had specialize tricorders, and even TNG had specialized medical
tricorders.
> 4) We need more throwaway mentions of TOS, TNG and other series
> locations. Something for the trek geeks to go "cool!"
And far fewer never-before-seen species in an area of space that would have
been regularly travelled by TOS.
> 5) We need an episode where the five Xindi are given names that are
> anagrams of those five whining dorks that Trekweb always uses for
> their reviews. And they all need to die horrible deaths while whining.
There's Xindi, Xan, and Xarsha, Xreg, and Xeter. The Xobbie Xindi were
killed off for being Usenet trolls. They have affiliation treaties with
their neighbors the Xlice, Xike, and Xarol.
> 6) We need a Xindi named Lauper, just so I can make asinine comments
See above.
> 8) There is an 8), tho. Hoshi needs to be given more to do, lest she
> turn into a proto-Uhura for good.
And less to wear.
Put her in the command chair and
> watch all hell break loose when she actually finds she *likes* it
> there.
After that, she climbs onto the warp reactor:
"I just wanted to feel the power between my legs, Trip!"
> 9) Archer needs a yeoman. Female, blonde, with big tits. Why not? It's
> not as if Archer's doing any romancing, now is he?
And just as frigid as Number One, so that he has to bed more alien chicks to
relieve the tension.
Andre Lieven
> "Andre Lieven" <dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
> news:bkvim8$suf$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
>> It gets... worse... :-( Nothing good to report about season three,
>> as of yet, three episodes in ( As of last night ).
>
> Last night was the standard Transform the Crew into Aliens episode. Ho hum.
Yeah, and TNG did that bit at least twice, that I can recall. The one
where Data & Picard return to 1701D and find the crew devolved, and
the one where Geordi goes through his devolving, mimmicing an old
landing party he was on.
" We've done passion fruits ! "
> Could have been worse- according to Voyager, in 10 millions years we turn
> into salamanders.
Please. Not Voyager ! I'll be good, I swear ! I'll never reply to
scott or CT... <g>
OM
<din...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"OM" <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org> wrote
>in message news:kgq7nvg9f6ogv6qe8...@4ax.com...
>> 2) Having five separate Xindi species is an idea that's been needed to
>> be used on Trek for years.
>
>Especially some that are entirely computer generated (although it's hard to
>believe that such disparate species are related).
...Depends on how far back the species diverged from the "mother
cell". I predict we'll discover that the "Future Guys" altered the
evolution of the Xindi, and that the Xindi-Sloths were supposed to be
the solitary species.
>> 4) The computers are not all voiced by Majel, and have almost no AI to
>> speak of.
>
>Sure they do- Berman & Co.
...That's "Asshole Intelligence". Doesn't count.
>> 5) Screw the rest of you, I like the concept of Dr. Phlox using
>> holistic medicine and herbal cures.
>
>I hate that holistic shit in real life, but it's great to see it in the
>show. Now, if only Dr. Phlox also kept the "medicinal bourbon" as well...
>Also nice to see that at least one of his wives is both hot and hot blooded,
>and that he's OK about it, thus furthering his hippie personality.
...Well, with that in mind, it won't be alcohol.
Phlox: "So, Captain, while you're waiting on Porthos' to be neutered,
would you like to try some of my special blend?"
Archer: "Special blend of what?"
Phlox: "I've crossed standard Earth marijuana with a similar albino
strain we found on Chong IX a few months ago. It appears to have very
potent relaxation effects, as well as analgesic results. And I've
already experimented with using it on Hoshi's eating disorder, and
she's gained six pounds this week raiding the mess hall after hours."
Archer: "Any hallucinogenic effects?"
Phlox: "Not that I've seen so far. I personally haven't experienced
any, but Commander Tucker volunteered to..."
[SFX: Sickbay door opens]
Reed: "Doctor, we have a patient for you. Alright, bring him in..."
[MACOs drag Tucker in, obviously whacked out of his gourd]
Tucker: "Man, Captain, this is a rush! The ceiling is dripping *PLAID*
down in engineering! And guess what? The Warp Core is ALIVE!!! It
spoke to me, and it's a *SHE*!!! She actually told me she *LIKES* me,
especially when I manually tweak her settings!! And..."
Archer: "That's enough, Trip. Doc, do what you can for him....oh, did
you give this stuff to anyone else?"
Phlox: "...Now that you mention it, I did give some to T'Pol for
analysis."
[Lights in Sickbay flicker, dim, resume, and ship suddenly drops out
of warp]
[SFX: Comm alert beep]
Reed (V.O.) "Security to Captain Archer!"
Archer: "Archer here. What is it, Malcolm?"
Reed (V.O.) "Captain, Subcommander T'Pol has locked herself in
Engineering. She's taken the Warp Core offline and..."
T'Pol (V.O.) "This is T'Pol. Under the rules of Koon-Ut-Kalifee, I
have successfully challenged the Warp Core for the right of marraige
to Commander Tucker. To celebrate, I will now recite the poems of the
Human Poet Nimoy, starting with _Free To Be You And Me_..."
Tucker "Married? Bummmer, man....Hey, Doc? You got anything to eat?
I'm getting the munchies big time right about now..."
Archer: "I wonder if it's too late to surrender to the Xindi..."
> In fact, I'd give my left nut for
>> Irene Ryan to come back from the dead long enough to make a guest
>> appearance as Phlox's Granny and show everyone where he picked up most
>> of his medical knowledge.
"Pleased t'meet you, Captain. How's my grandson Jethro doin' down in
sickbay?"
...or:
"You call these possom innards?? Lemme at thet thar kitchen! That
idiot Chef couldn't whup up a proper spread of vittles if his life
depended on 'em!"
>Well, John Wayne was shilling beer after he died, and Fred Astaire sold
>vacuums, so this isn't impossible.
...Well, Fred Astair at least did "Battlestar Ponderosa", although I
would have given my left nut to have seen John Wayne guest star on
"Spectre of the Gun" :-)
>> 7) I like the jumpsuits, but the color bands need to be more distinct.
>
>*Definitely*.
...One of these days I'll grab a screen cap of a bridge group shot and
colorize the jumpsuits TOS-style, just to show that it's not a bad
idea at all.
>> The shoulder patch works nice, but some additional badges of rank and
>> distinction couldn't hurt, such as years of service bars or medal
>> ribbons.
>
>Give them time.
...I'm expecting the MACOs to do something like this for Xindi kills.
Or, at least, notch their phase rifles.
>> 8) T'Pol's viewer. 'Nuff said.
>
>Also, some of the more subtle sound effects. I wish the "tactical alert"
>sound was the same as the TOS "red alert" sound.
...Ah, the "Reed Alert". Agreed, they *do* need to use the same sound.
>> 1) The sets are too fucking blue-grey-metal for my tastes. Make the
>> bridge doors red, dammit! Put some color into the ship, or at least
>> use some color gels!
>
>Well, they do use blue gels in the decon room :P
...Ah, the blue/green light stick look. Used to be cool, but after
"Nemesis" I'm so sick of cyalumin effects that I want to barf.
>> 2) The transporter looks like...well, it looks like crap. The controls
>> aren't bad, but the pad itself is banal if not lame.
>
>You'd also think it would be in its own room, and not taking up cooridor
>space.
...I'd expect it to be bigger, bulkier, with lots of ray projectors
all over the place. Tell you what, if you ever pick up one of the
early Gold Key TOS comics - the one where that lousy artist who lived
in Italy was drawing, and based the show only on a set of publicity
photos without having seen one episode of the show until 1974! - the
transporter room that was depicted in that one is more in line with
what should be used on "Enterprise".
>> 3) The tricorders are too PDA for my tastes. Make them bigger,
>> resembling the TOS versions.
>
>They are far too small when compared to TOS. They should be bulkier, and
>there should be specialized versions because all of the functions can't fit
>in one. TOS had specialize tricorders, and even TNG had specialized medical
>tricorders.
...Someone in Paranoidmount marketing is dropping the ball on this
one. Different purpose tricorders, different shapes, different
functions, all equal different *TOYS* and replicas. If Star Wars can
sell different light saber designs all based on a fucking Graflex,
Star Trek can sell different tricorders.
>> 4) We need more throwaway mentions of TOS, TNG and other series
>> locations. Something for the trek geeks to go "cool!"
>
>And far fewer never-before-seen species in an area of space that would have
>been regularly travelled by TOS.
...And at least an appearance by the gold skinned midgets from
"Journey to Babel", ferchrissakes!
>After that, she climbs onto the warp reactor:
>"I just wanted to feel the power between my legs, Trip!"
T'Pol (V.O.) "This is Subcommander T'Pol. Ensign Sato has just
challenged me for the Rite of Vengeance over the death of her lover,
the Warp Core, during the Kalifee. I will now pause my recitation of
the poems of the Earth Poet Nimoy to dispatch her with ease. We will
resume the recitations mometarily. Please stand by."
>> 9) Archer needs a yeoman. Female, blonde, with big tits. Why not? It's
>> not as if Archer's doing any romancing, now is he?
>
>And just as frigid as Number One, so that he has to bed more alien chicks to
>relieve the tension.
...I'm just surprised that since they now want to retool Archer(*)
into a proto-Kirk, they're not getting him laid at least once an
episode! More proof Berman has no clue.
(*) Gah! That's a freudian slip if I ever slipped on one!
Mike Dicenso
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, OM wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:10:51 GMT, Doug... <dvandor...@mn.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I read somewhere that it's supposed to be the Horizon, but I don't know
> >where they got that idea.
>
> ...Which blows totally the already established fact that the Horizon
> was a completely different class of vessel, one of the "original TOS
> Enterprise" designs that Matt Jeffries did with a command *sphere*
> instead of the saucer.
We actually don't know for certain that the Daedalus class is what the
Horizon is supposed to look like, or when it comes into service or
anything else. The only canon reference is the vauge views of the model
sitting on one of Sisko's desks, and that might be a completely different
Horizon from the one that visited Sigma Iotia II just as the Valiant that
was destroyed over planet Eminiar is not the one destroyed by the Galactic
Barrier more than a century prior.
-Mike
Mike Dicenso
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, OM wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:02:17 -0700, Mike Dicenso
> <mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:
>
> >The design looks also to based on the Ralph McQuarrie/Ken Adam
> >"stardestroyer" Enterprise redesign for the abandoned "Star Trek: Planet
> >of Titans" movie project.
>
> ...If you squint really hard, and you're really, really drunk. Maybe.
I said "based on", after all...
-Mike
Scott Hedrick
in message news:d819nvgr30g3o4apn...@4ax.com...
> >> 1) The sets are too fucking blue-grey-metal for my tastes. Make the
> >> bridge doors red, dammit! Put some color into the ship, or at least
> >> use some color gels!
> >
> >Well, they do use blue gels in the decon room :P
>
> ...Ah, the blue/green light stick look. Used to be cool, but after
> "Nemesis" I'm so sick of cyalumin effects that I want to barf.
Come, now, you'd take the opportunity to rub gel on T'Pol, were it
offered...
Pat Flannery
LooseChanj wrote:
>They did that from day 1, which is what made me stop watching. This is supposed
>to be 100 years prior to TOS, and they have ALL THE SAME TECHNOLOGY. What an
>absolute crock. I tuned in after awhile to see if it had gotten any better,
>and what do I see? Ferenghi. Jesus. Oh, and if the Enterprise is supposed to
>be "exploring", what the fudge are cargo ships doing flying around? Weren't
>the vulcans objecting to sending Enterprise out because humans weren't ready?
>The show is just one huge plot hole.
>
>
Yeah, the timeline screw-ups are so obvious that you can tell that the
writers don't even care- this was particularly annoying when they ran
into the cloaked Romulan ships and mines; the Romulans weren't supposed
to have developed cloaking technology till after the Romulan-Federation
war, which is still well in the future of ST Enterprise's date.
Pat- son of Jim
OM
<din...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"OM" <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org> wrote
>in message news:d819nvgr30g3o4apn...@4ax.com...
>> >> 1) The sets are too fucking blue-grey-metal for my tastes. Make the
>> >> bridge doors red, dammit! Put some color into the ship, or at least
>> >> use some color gels!
>> >
>> >Well, they do use blue gels in the decon room :P
>>
>> ...Ah, the blue/green light stick look. Used to be cool, but after
>> "Nemesis" I'm so sick of cyalumin effects that I want to barf.
>
>Come, now, you'd take the opportunity to rub gel on T'Pol, were it
>offered...
...Of course, we now know for a fact that Jolene Blalock's boobs are,
in fact, boobs, and not just padding under the catsuit.
Pat Flannery
OM wrote:
>...Which blows totally the already established fact that the Horizon
>was a completely different class of vessel, one of the "original TOS
>Enterprise" designs that Matt Jeffries did with a command *sphere*
>instead of the saucer.
>
And which became the inspiration for the medical starship Pasteur in the
two-part ST-TNG finale- "All Good Things".
Pat
Brian Thorn
wrote:
>> Last night was the standard Transform the Crew into Aliens episode. Ho hum.
>
>Yeah, and TNG did that bit at least twice, that I can recall. The one
>where Data & Picard return to 1701D and find the crew devolved, and
>the one where Geordi goes through his devolving, mimmicing an old
>landing party he was on.
Haven't seen the mandatory Enterprise 'wacky fun with DNA' episode
yet, but that Geordi episode ("Identity Crisis") has one of the
creepiest scenes ever filmed for Trek... the one where Geordi
discovers the invisible alien in the recording from years before.
Brian
G.Beat
news:c3Wcb.25984$an.1...@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> "Andre Lieven" <dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
> news:bkvim8$suf$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
> > It gets... worse... :-( Nothing good to report about season three,
> > as of yet, three episodes in ( As of last night ).
>
> Last night was the standard Transform the Crew into Aliens episode. Ho
hum.
>
.. and did you note the director of this episode .... a TNG veteran
gb
OM
<now9s...@spam.comcast.net> wrote:
>"Scott Hedrick" <din...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:c3Wcb.25984$an.1...@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>> "Andre Lieven" <dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
>> news:bkvim8$suf$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
>> > It gets... worse... :-( Nothing good to report about season three,
>> > as of yet, three episodes in ( As of last night ).
>>
>> Last night was the standard Transform the Crew into Aliens episode. Ho
>hum.
>
>.. and did you note the director of this episode .... a TNG veteran
...Who happened to be one of those transformed on TNG at that.
I've heard of typecasting, but type*directing*? :-P
Andre Lieven
> "OM" <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org>
> wrote in message news:d819nvgr30g3o4apn...@4ax.com...
>> >> 1) The sets are too fucking blue-grey-metal for my tastes. Make the
>> >> bridge doors red, dammit! Put some color into the ship, or at least
>> >> use some color gels!
>> >
>> >Well, they do use blue gels in the decon room :P
>>
>> ...Ah, the blue/green light stick look. Used to be cool, but after
>> "Nemesis" I'm so sick of cyalumin effects that I want to barf.
>
> Come, now, you'd take the opportunity to rub gel on T'Pol, were it
> offered...
You know... On a serious note, not really. If I were interested in
her ( Or, any particular woman ), sexually, then that small amount
of contact would be both frustrating and pointless.
Then again, having not been in a strip bar, aside for my batchelor
party ( The best part of the whole marriage... :-( ), since I hit
18 ( Sorry, OM, I know that encouraging such doesn't help one part
of your bottom line. :-) ), the idea of, in effect, being allowed
to *look* at the food in a restaurant, but not to actually have
any of it... while paying 4 star rates for the "privilige"...
Pass.
Andre Lieven
Indeed. Plus, you were left with the distinct notion that the Earth-
Romulan War was the first time, or very close to it, that Earth knew
of the Romulans, their ships, their appearance, and so on.
Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
Hallerb
>You know... On a serious note, not really. If I were interested in
>her ( Or, any particular woman ), sexually, then that small amount
>of contact would be both frustrating and pointless.
Sometimes wanting something is better than getting it. Just ask the average
married man. The thrill of the chase is fun. Once your married it becomes a
business:(
before your married you find reaons to be together, after your married you find
reasons to be apart
Need I say more???
Andre Lieven
>>
>>You know... On a serious note, not really. If I were interested in
>>her ( Or, any particular woman ), sexually, then that small amount
>>of contact would be both frustrating and pointless.
>
> Sometimes wanting something is better than getting it.
I've heard that. Its insane, and wrong, of course.
> Just ask the average married man.
Well, I've been one of those...
> The thrill of the chase is fun.
Not the way it's presently organised, its not.
> Once your married it becomes a business:(
Only if you marry the equivalent of a hooker...
> before your married you find reaons to be together, after your married
> you find reasons to be apart
In general, thats far more true among women, then among men. See
Sanford Braver " Divorced Dads; Shattering The Myths ", especially
Chapter 7 " Who Leaves... And, Why It Matters ".
> Need I say more???
Nope. I know this topic all too well, already.
Mike Dicenso
On Fri, 27 Sep 2003, Andre Lieven wrote:
> Pat Flannery (fla...@daktel.com) writes:
> > LooseChanj wrote:
> >
> >>They did that from day 1, which is what made me stop watching. This is
> >>supposed to be 100 years prior to TOS, and they have ALL THE SAME
> >>TECHNOLOGY. What an absolute crock. I tuned in after awhile to see
> >>if it had gotten any better, and what do I see? Ferenghi. Jesus.
> >>Oh, and if the Enterprise is supposed to be "exploring", what the
> >>fudge are cargo ships doing flying around? Weren't the vulcans
> >>objecting to sending Enterprise out because humans weren't ready?
> >>The show is just one huge plot hole.
> >
> > Yeah, the timeline screw-ups are so obvious that you can tell that the
> > writers don't even care- this was particularly annoying when they ran
> > into the cloaked Romulan ships and mines; the Romulans weren't supposed
> > to have developed cloaking technology till after the Romulan-Federation
> > war, which is still well in the future of ST Enterprise's date.
>
> Indeed. Plus, you were left with the distinct notion that the Earth-
> Romulan War was the first time, or very close to it, that Earth knew
> of the Romulans, their ships, their appearance, and so on.
How did you get this? Nothing in Spock's brief summery to the crew ever
indicated exactly when Earth made contact with the Romulans, nor exactly
when the war started, nor the exactly when it came to an end. It's at best
an implication that the Earth-Romulan war was the first time Humans had
encountered Romulans, but it is also just as probable there was some prior
contact which led up to the conflict.
> Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
Move what back? The Earth-Romulan war was said to have occured over 100
years prior to "Balance of Terror". Having a first contact in 2151
is about right right, with the war following a few years later.
-Mike
Pat Flannery
Andre Lieven wrote:
>
>Then again, having not been in a strip bar, aside for my batchelor
>party ( The best part of the whole marriage... :-( ), since I hit
>18 ( Sorry, OM, I know that encouraging such doesn't help one part
>of your bottom line. :-) ), the idea of, in effect, being allowed
>to *look* at the food in a restaurant, but not to actually have
>any of it... while paying 4 star rates for the "privilige"...
>" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
>
>
Time solves many problems in regard to the male/female human
relationship; I (of rapidly diminishing testosterone)- look back at
those wild days of my youth in a combination of puzzlement and horror
regarding the things that my Id did in response to the mating
impulse...frankly, now the whole thing looks desperate,
undignified,....and indeed....unsanitary.
A return to my six year old approach to the concept of kissing a girl-
"Why would anyone want to do that? Yeech!" seems to have occurred.
Now, if only... if I could just get my brain's ability for nostalgic and
romantic sex fantasies to catch up to where my present philosophy- not
to mention my body's ability to carry out those fantasies- stands...ah,
the Buddha would certainly approve! But if you think trying to forget
The White Horse is difficult...then try Kate Bush in that leotard and
chain mail from the "Babooshka" video sometime....
Pat
Pat Flannery
Mike Dicenso wrote:
> How did you get this? Nothing in Spock's brief summery to the crew ever
>indicated exactly when Earth made contact with the Romulans, nor exactly
>when the war started, nor the exactly when it came to an end. It's at best
>an implication that the Earth-Romulan war was the first time Humans had
>encountered Romulans, but it is also just as probable there was some prior
>contact which led up to the conflict.
>
And of course we now know- thanks to ST Enterprise- that the Vulcans are
nothing but a bunch of LIARS, LIARS, LIARS! Pointy-Eared Green-Blooded
Stuck-Ups who would without hesitation stoop to the sick concept of
sending a Big-Busted Cock-Tease onboard a Federation starship with the
express intent that she could lure the male crew members of that August
vessel into a web of lust and deceit by her fabricated "Tension Relief
Exercises"- that require decent, Red-Blooded, American Men to disrobe in
her dominatrix presence in the Little-Masochist-Sex-Slave-Training-Cell
of her quarters every night...so that She-Who-Must-Be-Frequently-Topless
can run her hands all over their backs (and apparently feet- worse yet)
and confuse their lonely and desperate minds!
Give me the Borg!
At least when dealing with them, you'll know that you are really,
seriously, in danger of actually ending up completely and totally fucked!
>
>
>
>>Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
>>
>>
>
>Move what back? The Earth-Romulan war was said to have occurred over 100
>years prior to "Balance of Terror". Having a first contact in 2151
>is about right right, with the war following a few years later.
>
I can see that she has already worked her sick spell on you, Mr.
Apologist! Well... I hope you enjoyed it...you won't be getting any more
of it... FOR AROUND ANOTHER SEVEN YEARS!
Pat
David Sander
>
<snip>
> then try Kate Bush in that leotard and
> chain mail from the "Babooshka" video sometime....
Ooh ooh!
THAT one is worth three laps around the sport field and an ice water
shower after...
Ooh. Kate. Yum.
David
--
per aspera ad astra
LooseChanj
<om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org>
made the sensational claim that:
> 2) Having five separate Xindi species is an idea that's been needed to
> be used on Trek for years. Every planet has one race due to budget
> concerns, but as we both know there's no guarantee that only one
> species will evolve to intellectual dominance. Just ask our friends
> the Dolphins, the Porpoises and the Democrats.
You did not just imply democrats are intelligent, did you?
--
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Hallerb
>> Once your married it becomes a business:(
>
>Only if you marry the equivalent of a hooker...
Your absolutely wrong about that!. Before marriage you both show off, spend
mnney friviously, and have FUN!!!!
Once married theres the gas light water sewer car insurance credit card mortage
bill plus the extra bills to pay for your pre marriage fun:(
Then minor sow stoppers on what do we buy with the little money leftover, and
trying to compromise on all those details of living... sigh...
I love being married but this is the facts of the matter....
LooseChanj
<mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu> made the sensational claim that:
> How did you get this? Nothing in Spock's brief summery to the crew ever
> indicated exactly when Earth made contact with the Romulans, nor exactly
> when the war started, nor the exactly when it came to an end. It's at best
> an implication that the Earth-Romulan war was the first time Humans had
> encountered Romulans, but it is also just as probable there was some prior
> contact which led up to the conflict.
The federation sure as hell never knew what the romulans looked like. IIRC,
the treaty ending the war was negotiated over subspace radio. "Balance of
Terror" might not have come right out and said it, but the strong implication
was that little to nothing was known of the Romulans. Now how much you want to
bet we get to know them intimately in a future episode of Enterprise? It's
that kind of absolute crap I saw coming, and it's why I don't watch the show
now. Instead of being creative, the producers just recycle old memes from
previous series, *despite* the fact that this one is *previous* to all the
others. And they do it in that oh hey wow I know what that is, but the people
in the show don't utterly banal way. Guh, it's just absolute utter shit.
Jonathan Silverlight
<Loose...@aol.com> writes
>
>The federation sure as hell never knew what the romulans looked like. IIRC,
>the treaty ending the war was negotiated over subspace radio. "Balance of
>Terror" might not have come right out and said it, but the strong implication
>was that little to nothing was known of the Romulans. Now how much you want to
>bet we get to know them intimately in a future episode of Enterprise? It's
>that kind of absolute crap I saw coming, and it's why I don't watch the show
>now. Instead of being creative, the producers just recycle old memes from
>previous series, *despite* the fact that this one is *previous* to all the
>others. And they do it in that oh hey wow I know what that is, but the people
>in the show don't utterly banal way. Guh, it's just absolute utter shit.
Conversely, of course, they are inventing a lot of history (see, I got
the "h" word in ) which wasn't there in the previous series.
Either they will ignore it was they will say they are now in a different
time-line. Which is true, of course
--
"Making up history as we go along"
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.
Brian Thorn
wrote:
>Indeed. Plus, you were left with the distinct notion that the Earth-
>Romulan War was the first time, or very close to it, that Earth knew
>of the Romulans, their ships, their appearance, and so on.
Cite? I remember nothing to that effect in "Balance of Terror".
>Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
No, it's moved back 5-10 years, tops, which I think is 'in the noise'
for the never-firm Star Trek historical timeline. "Balance of Terror"
referred to the Earth-Romulan War being a century earlier, while
"Enterprise" is set around 110 years before Kirk.
However, the cloaking device was clearly only a theoretical
possibility to Spock in "Balance of Terror", while "Enterprise" seems
to have found cloaked ships all over the galaxy.
Brian
Andre Lieven
> Andre Lieven wrote:
>
>>Then again, having not been in a strip bar, aside for my batchelor
>>party ( The best part of the whole marriage... :-( ), since I hit
>>18 ( Sorry, OM, I know that encouraging such doesn't help one part
>>of your bottom line. :-) ), the idea of, in effect, being allowed
>>to *look* at the food in a restaurant, but not to actually have
>>any of it... while paying 4 star rates for the "privilige"...
>
>>" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
>>
> Time solves many problems in regard to the male/female human
> relationship; I (of rapidly diminishing testosterone)- look back at
> those wild days of my youth in a combination of puzzlement and horror
> regarding the things that my Id did in response to the mating
> impulse...frankly, now the whole thing looks desperate,
> undignified,....and indeed....unsanitary.
Indeed. Though, some of the purpose of it, is still interesting,
no matter at what age it would occur. Such as, hooking up, long
term with a copy of Mrs. Beady... <g>
But, among my more serious lessons of the last decade, would be,
that what men aren't doing anywhere near enough of, is standing
up for what we want and need, in relationships, rather than just
being " nice " and letting the women set the whole stage.
Consider: What equivalent ceremonial gift is there, in modern times,
that matches the " three months salary " ring given to her ? Why
isn't there an equivalent social obligation on her part to gift
him with a 52 inch teevee ?
Don't even get me started on weddings... See last year's Fox special
titled " Bridezillas "...
> A return to my six year old approach to the concept of kissing a girl-
> "Why would anyone want to do that? Yeech!" seems to have occurred.
I hear that... Over on another group, we just saw a pop media article
on women not getting the sex they want, in many marriages, and now
that that worm is turning in that direction, now, its a problem...
Uh huh.
> Now, if only... if I could just get my brain's ability for nostalgic and
> romantic sex fantasies to catch up to where my present philosophy- not
> to mention my body's ability to carry out those fantasies- stands...ah,
> the Buddha would certainly approve! But if you think trying to forget
> The White Horse is difficult...then try Kate Bush in that leotard and
> chain mail from the "Babooshka" video sometime....
Naw... Too *thin*.
" From the Top Ten List Of Sexual Fantasies Involving Calista
Flockhart:
Number One: Shoving a Happy Meal into her... "
And, more men agree with me, than not. Compare the female body
types found in Vogue, and Playboy....
Andre
--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
Andre Lieven
> On Fri, 27 Sep 2003, Andre Lieven wrote:
>
>> Pat Flannery (fla...@daktel.com) writes:
>> > LooseChanj wrote:
>> >
>> >>They did that from day 1, which is what made me stop watching. This is
>> >>supposed to be 100 years prior to TOS, and they have ALL THE SAME
>> >>TECHNOLOGY. What an absolute crock. I tuned in after awhile to see
>> >>if it had gotten any better, and what do I see? Ferenghi. Jesus.
>> >>Oh, and if the Enterprise is supposed to be "exploring", what the
>> >>fudge are cargo ships doing flying around? Weren't the vulcans
>> >>objecting to sending Enterprise out because humans weren't ready?
>> >>The show is just one huge plot hole.
>> >
>> > Yeah, the timeline screw-ups are so obvious that you can tell that the
>> > writers don't even care- this was particularly annoying when they ran
>> > into the cloaked Romulan ships and mines; the Romulans weren't supposed
>> > to have developed cloaking technology till after the Romulan-Federation
>> > war, which is still well in the future of ST Enterprise's date.
>>
>> Indeed. Plus, you were left with the distinct notion that the Earth-
>> Romulan War was the first time, or very close to it, that Earth knew
>> of the Romulans, their ships, their appearance, and so on.
>
> How did you get this?
Since, in both TOS and Enterprise, we've seen no small amount of ship
boardings, it follows that, the *surprise* on the bridge of the
NCC-1701 when they first access the one Romulan ship's signals,
indicates that contact with the Romulans, prior to the E-R War, was
minimal, to less.
This, of course, leaves out the commentary from " Balance Of Terror " that
the E-R War was fought with " primitive " ships, possessing no visual
comm systems, of which, NX-01 has plenty of.
> Nothing in Spock's brief summery to the crew ever
> indicated exactly when Earth made contact with the Romulans, nor exactly
> when the war started, nor the exactly when it came to an end. It's at best
> an implication that the Earth-Romulan war was the first time Humans had
> encountered Romulans, but it is also just as probable there was some prior
> contact which led up to the conflict.
>> Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
>
> Move what back? The Earth-Romulan war was said to have occured over 100
> years prior to "Balance of Terror". Having a first contact in 2151
> is about right right, with the war following a few years later.
In which case, rather than this nonsense about the " Expanse ", had
Bragga et al, wanted to " jazz " up Enterprise with a space war, the
logical war to have shown would have been the E-R War, since it fits
the timeline closely enough.
Indeed, these shifts away from earlier canon, nly show that Bragga et al,
in the words of Harlan Ellison, " can't write for sour owl poop. "
Michael Walsh
Mike Dicenso wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Sep 2003, Andre Lieven wrote:
>
> > Pat Flannery (fla...@daktel.com) writes:
> > > LooseChanj wrote:
> > >
> > >>They did that from day 1, which is what made me stop watching. This is
> > >>supposed to be 100 years prior to TOS, and they have ALL THE SAME
> > >>TECHNOLOGY. What an absolute crock. I tuned in after awhile to see
> > >>if it had gotten any better, and what do I see? Ferenghi. Jesus.
> > >>Oh, and if the Enterprise is supposed to be "exploring", what the
> > >>fudge are cargo ships doing flying around? Weren't the vulcans
> > >>objecting to sending Enterprise out because humans weren't ready?
> > >>The show is just one huge plot hole.
> > >
> > > Yeah, the timeline screw-ups are so obvious that you can tell that the
> > > writers don't even care- this was particularly annoying when they ran
> > > into the cloaked Romulan ships and mines; the Romulans weren't supposed
> > > to have developed cloaking technology till after the Romulan-Federation
> > > war, which is still well in the future of ST Enterprise's date.
> >
> > Indeed. Plus, you were left with the distinct notion that the Earth-
> > Romulan War was the first time, or very close to it, that Earth knew
> > of the Romulans, their ships, their appearance, and so on.
If you note the way things are presented in the latest StarTrek Enterprise
you should notice that the meetings didn't identify very much about the
either the Romulans or the Ferengi. They were met and left as
pretty much unknown quantities.
> How did you get this? Nothing in Spock's brief summery to the crew ever
> indicated exactly when Earth made contact with the Romulans, nor exactly
> when the war started, nor the exactly when it came to an end. It's at best
> an implication that the Earth-Romulan war was the first time Humans had
> encountered Romulans, but it is also just as probable there was some prior
> contact which led up to the conflict.
>
> > Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
>
> Move what back? The Earth-Romulan war was said to have occured over 100
> years prior to "Balance of Terror". Having a first contact in 2151
> is about right right, with the war following a few years later.
> -Mike
The show is trying to make contact with some of these later happenings
without completely blowing the history. Sometimes this is a bit strange,
as the story indicates that Starfleet knew about the Borg, but kept it
a secret for hundreds of years.
Of course, the presence of the Borg was a part of an earlier movie.
Mike Walsh
Andre Lieven
>>
>>> Once your married it becomes a business:(
>>
>>Only if you marry the equivalent of a hooker...
>
> Your absolutely wrong about that!. Before marriage you both show off,
> spend mnney friviously, and have FUN!!!!
Indeed. Thats the method that is most likely to add you to the 50%
divorce statistics...
> Once married theres the gas light water sewer car insurance credit card
> mortage bill plus the extra bills to pay for your pre marriage fun:(
What, someone else was paying my " not-fun " bills, before I got
married ? I had better let my banks know about that, as they foolishly
let my money pay all those bills, at that time...
> Then minor sow stoppers on what do we buy with the little money leftover,
> and trying to compromise on all those details of living... sigh...
Huh ? This didn't parse.
> I love being married but this is the facts of the matter....
Not really, no. Not for seriously marrieds...
Brian Thorn
<om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org>
wrote:
>4) We need more throwaway mentions of TOS, TNG and other series
>locations. Something for the trek geeks to go "cool!"
They actually have done that from time to time, most recently in
"Regeneration" where Phlox referes to the Binars of TNG's "11001001".
>8) There is an 8), tho. Hoshi needs to be given more to do, lest she
>turn into a proto-Uhura for good. Put her in the command chair and
>watch all hell break loose when she actually finds she *likes* it
>there.
They do seem to be moving in that direction this season.
Brian
Mike Dicenso
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Pat Flannery wrote:
>
>
> Mike Dicenso wrote:
>
> > How did you get this? Nothing in Spock's brief summery to the crew ever
> >indicated exactly when Earth made contact with the Romulans, nor exactly
> >when the war started, nor the exactly when it came to an end. It's at best
> >an implication that the Earth-Romulan war was the first time Humans had
> >encountered Romulans, but it is also just as probable there was some prior
> >contact which led up to the conflict.
> >
> And of course we now know- thanks to ST Enterprise- that the Vulcans are
> nothing but a bunch of LIARS, LIARS, LIARS! Pointy-Eared Green-Blooded
> Stuck-Ups who would without hesitation stoop to the sick concept of
> sending a Big-Busted Cock-Tease onboard a Federation starship with the
> express intent that she could lure the male crew members of that August
> vessel into a web of lust and deceit by her fabricated "Tension Relief
> Exercises"- that require decent, Red-Blooded, American Men to disrobe in
> her dominatrix presence in the Little-Masochist-Sex-Slave-Training-Cell
> of her quarters every night...so that She-Who-Must-Be-Frequently-Topless
> can run her hands all over their backs (and apparently feet- worse yet)
> and confuse their lonely and desperate minds!
> Give me the Borg!
> At least when dealing with them, you'll know that you are really,
> seriously, in danger of actually ending up completely and totally fucked!
You're strange rant here only makes me think that you're the one with some
kind of sexual hang up.
> >>Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Move what back? The Earth-Romulan war was said to have occurred over 100
> >years prior to "Balance of Terror". Having a first contact in 2151
> >is about right right, with the war following a few years later.
> >
>
> I can see that she has already worked her sick spell on you, Mr.
> Apologist! Well... I hope you enjoyed it...you won't be getting any more
> of it... FOR AROUND ANOTHER SEVEN YEARS!
I trust that you're just joking here since pointing out that the time
period of the 2150's and Spock's noting that the war occured over 100
years prior to TOS' timeframe are hardly "apologistic". If you are going
to argue an issue for ENT, at least argue from a real complaint, such as
the cloaking device before it's time issue. Now that was a screw up, and
John Shiban who wrote "Minefield" should have known better.
-Mike
Mike Dicenso
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, LooseChanj wrote:
> On or about Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:09:27 -0700, Mike Dicenso
> <mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu> made the sensational claim that:
> > How did you get this? Nothing in Spock's brief summery to the crew ever
> > indicated exactly when Earth made contact with the Romulans, nor exactly
> > when the war started, nor the exactly when it came to an end. It's at best
> > an implication that the Earth-Romulan war was the first time Humans had
> > encountered Romulans, but it is also just as probable there was some prior
> > contact which led up to the conflict.
>
> The federation sure as hell never knew what the romulans looked like. IIRC,
> the treaty ending the war was negotiated over subspace radio. "Balance of
> Terror" might not have come right out and said it, but the strong implication
> was that little to nothing was known of the Romulans.
And there isn't anything really known about the Romulans by Archer and
crew either except what the ships look like. The Romulans only
communicated via audio, and their ships were shielded from scans. The only
serious screw up in an otherwise very well-written episode was that the
Romulans were shown to have cloaking devices more than 110 years before
they are supposed to.
Now how much you want to
> bet we get to know them intimately in a future episode of Enterprise? It's
> that kind of absolute crap I saw coming, and it's why I don't watch the show
> now. Instead of being creative, the producers just recycle old memes from
> previous series, *despite* the fact that this one is *previous* to all the
> others. And they do it in that oh hey wow I know what that is, but the people
> in the show don't utterly banal way. Guh, it's just absolute utter shit.
Yawn. Another rant that doesn't hold water.
-Mike
Andre Lieven
> On 27 Sep 2003 03:12:11 GMT, dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Lieven)
> wrote:
>
>>Indeed. Plus, you were left with the distinct notion that the Earth-
>>Romulan War was the first time, or very close to it, that Earth knew
>>of the Romulans, their ships, their appearance, and so on.
>
> Cite? I remember nothing to that effect in "Balance of Terror".
The references to what Romulan ships looked like, in that episode,
come from Stiles, whose pedigree on such matters goes back to the
E-R War, but no farther.
It is therefore logical, to infer that said descriptions stem from
said war, but also no farther.
>>Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
>
> No, it's moved back 5-10 years, tops, which I think is 'in the noise'
> for the never-firm Star Trek historical timeline. "Balance of Terror"
> referred to the Earth-Romulan War being a century earlier, while
> "Enterprise" is set around 110 years before Kirk.
Have we been specifically told that the first mission of NX-01 is
1100 years prior to the chronicled voyages of 1701 ?
> However, the cloaking device was clearly only a theoretical
> possibility to Spock in "Balance of Terror", while "Enterprise" seems
> to have found cloaked ships all over the galaxy.
Indeed. Thats one of the TOS canons that the current destroyers of
Trek have violated.
Andre Lieven
Nonetheless, the physical descriptions of the Ferengi, and the ship
exteriors of the Romulan ships, would be in the data banks, in later,
IE- TOS and TNG years.
Blowing the " unknown " status of both, when their later " not-s0-
first contacts " occur...
>> How did you get this? Nothing in Spock's brief summery to the crew ever
>> indicated exactly when Earth made contact with the Romulans, nor exactly
>> when the war started, nor the exactly when it came to an end. It's at best
>> an implication that the Earth-Romulan war was the first time Humans had
>> encountered Romulans, but it is also just as probable there was some prior
>> contact which led up to the conflict.
>>
>> > Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
>>
>> Move what back? The Earth-Romulan war was said to have occured over 100
>> years prior to "Balance of Terror". Having a first contact in 2151
>> is about right right, with the war following a few years later.
>> -Mike
>
> The show is trying to make contact with some of these later happenings
> without completely blowing the history. Sometimes this is a bit strange,
> as the story indicates that Starfleet knew about the Borg, but kept it
> a secret for hundreds of years.
Indeed. How " Hangar 51- X Files " of them...
> Of course, the presence of the Borg was a part of an earlier movie.
Indeed, but without contaminating the 21st century timeline.
Michael Walsh
LooseChanj wrote:
> On or about Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:44:40 -0600, OM
> <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org>
> made the sensational claim that:
> > 2) Having five separate Xindi species is an idea that's been needed to
> > be used on Trek for years. Every planet has one race due to budget
> > concerns, but as we both know there's no guarantee that only one
> > species will evolve to intellectual dominance. Just ask our friends
> > the Dolphins, the Porpoises and the Democrats.
>
> You did not just imply democrats are intelligent, did you?
Perhaps not compared to dolphins and porpoises.
But definitely compared to Republicans.
Not to mention Libertarians and the Green Party.
Mike Walsh
Pat Flannery
Hallerb wrote:
>Then minor sow stoppers
>
No....I'm going to resist the temptation....it would be _far_ too easy...
Pat
Pat Flannery
Andre Lieven wrote:
>
>Consider: What equivalent ceremonial gift is there, in modern times,
>that matches the " three months salary " ring given to her ? Why
>isn't there an equivalent social obligation on her part to gift
>him with a 52 inch teevee ?
>
Yeah, whatever happened to the good old dowry anyway? I think it's her
family's duty to contribute a something of value to the marriage- say a
side of beef; or a lifetime supply of tampons for her at the very least!
>
>Don't even get me started on weddings... See last year's Fox special
>titled " Bridezillas "...
>
There is just no escaping the slimy tendrils of the horrible Murdoch
octopus around here, is there?
>
>
>
>>A return to my six year old approach to the concept of kissing a girl-
>>"Why would anyone want to do that? Yeech!" seems to have occurred.
>>
>>
>>
>
>I hear that... Over on another group, we just saw a pop media article
>on women not getting the sex they want, in many marriages, and now
>that that worm is turning in that direction
>
That's a tad Freudian, don't you think? I actually met a couple once who
were very happily married after a decade or so; I rate this
extraordinary sighting right up there with the time I actually saw a
Whooping Crane in flight. there was one interesting fact about this
marriage- the husband had a doctor's degree in psychology (no, his
wife's name wasn't Emily or Lilith).
> now, its a problem...
>
>Uh huh.
>
>
>
>>Now, if only... if I could just get my brain's ability for nostalgic and
>>romantic sex fantasies to catch up to where my present philosophy- not
>>to mention my body's ability to carry out those fantasies- stands...ah,
>>the Buddha would certainly approve! But if you think trying to forget
>>The White Horse is difficult...then try Kate Bush in that leotard and
>>chain mail from the "Babooshka" video sometime....
>>
>>
>
>Naw... Too *thin*.
>
Well, you've got to remember that I also like Loni Anderson and Ann-Margret
no small potatoes, those two.
But Kate has a cute little heinie on her....and I think his name is Manfred.
>
>" From the Top Ten List Of Sexual Fantasies Involving Calista
>Flockhart:
>
>Number One: Shoving a Happy Meal into her... "
>
>And, more men agree with me, than not. Compare the female body
>types found in Vogue, and Playboy....
>
Where exactly does Cosmopolitan fit into this grande schemata?
Pat
Pat Flannery
Mike Dicenso wrote:
>You're strange rant here only makes me think that you're the one with some
>kind of sexual hang up.
>
>
>
You're damn right on that score, sonny boy- you are talking to the
inventor of The Venusian Firewomen; and if those little space sluts
aren't the product of a sexually demented mind, then I don't know what is!
>>I can see that she has already worked her sick spell on you, Mr.
>>Apologist! Well... I hope you enjoyed it...you won't be getting any more
>>of it... FOR AROUND ANOTHER SEVEN YEARS!
>>
>>
>
>I trust that you're just joking here since pointing out that the time
>period of the 2150's and Spock's noting that the war occured over 100
>years prior to TOS' timeframe are hardly "apologistic". If you are going
>to argue an issue for ENT, at least argue from a real complaint, such as
>the cloaking device before it's time issue. Now that was a screw up, and
>John Shiban who wrote "Minefield" should have known better.
>
Yeah, I pointed that out in a earlier post in this thread....but that
still doesn't let you off the hook for your Vulco-centric world view,
and all-too-obvious lust for that green-blooded tart's attempts to
corrupt and morally destroy decent Federation crewmen via kinky finger
play in the wee hours of the morning...what will this Mata Hari try
next? She already has the captain and most of the crew on her little
libido lust-leash, and I fear that soon the lonely Hoshi shall also be
feeling the all-too-familer touch of Vulcan fingers on her
soon-to-be-sexually-compromised back...even Will Riker's penchant for
nailing any species in sight, regardless of it's sexual biology (and
indeed unearthly mating techniques- remember that he impaled the Giant
Mantoid of Regulus 12 and almost got his head bit off?), looks like the
the mere sowing of wild Quadrotriticale oats compared to the sexual
machinations of this strumpet of the spaceways! You just watch! Some
winzied old Vulcan mind witch has stuck her fingers in the sex-spy's
ears, and mentally implanted hidden commands and kinky erotic techniques
for twisting the morals of any species that lil' miss boobs comes into
contact with.
I'll bet she's got some sort of deeply implanted
sub-personality....like Talia Winters! How was Susan Ivanova to know
that her bedmate was as twisted as a clockwork orange? How were _we_ to
know that this particular fruit was going to show up on CNN, sans
gloves... and scruples? :-)
Pat
OM
wrote:
>Hallerb wrote:
>
>>Then minor sow stoppers
>>
>No....I'm going to resist the temptation....it would be _far_ too easy...
...Beady can have his cows, Maxson can have his sons, I supposed Bob
Haller can have his bacon and eat it too.
OM
--
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
- General George S. Patton, Jr
OM
<mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:
>You're strange rant here only makes me think that you're the one with some
>kind of sexual hang up.
...Hey, back off of Pat, Mike. We just got him back on around here,
and we don't want him chased off again. The guy brings a dadaist input
to the group to balance my satirist views, and we need him here.
Now, go pet your tribble and behave yourself, eh?
OM
wrote:
>And, more men agree with me, than not. Compare the female body
>types found in Vogue, and Playboy....
...Except that when polled, men also point out that what they do *NOT*
like to see is those nekked bodies *pouting*. What some idiot
photographer thinks is "sexy", the pursing of the lips in an attempt
to portray an emotion they -think- is "I want to rip your clothes off
and rape you right here and now, mister!" is to 94% of the males
looking at those photos nothing more than "I'm a spoiled bitch from
hell, and if you don't give me all your money for nothing in return
I'll hate you for the rest of your life!"
To that 94%, rather than buy a magazine with photos like that, it's
cheaper just tell your SO she's getting fat, and needs to walk it off
by going to the kitchen and getting you a beer.
OM
wrote:
>On or about Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:44:40 -0600, OM
><om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research_facility.org>
>made the sensational claim that:
>> 2) Having five separate Xindi species is an idea that's been needed to
>> be used on Trek for years. Every planet has one race due to budget
>> concerns, but as we both know there's no guarantee that only one
>> species will evolve to intellectual dominance. Just ask our friends
>> the Dolphins, the Porpoises and the Democrats.
>
>You did not just imply democrats are intelligent, did you?
...Semi-intelligent. A totally different species from humanity,
obviously.
Jonathan Silverlight
<dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> writes
>Michael Walsh (mp1w...@Adelphia.net) writes:
>
>> Of course, the presence of the Borg was a part of an earlier movie.
>
>Indeed, but without contaminating the 21st century timeline.
>
>Andre
Presumably, but not proven.
--
Scott Hedrick
news:20030927002534...@mb-m04.aol.com...
> Need I say more???
Yes- you still need to follow up on your promise to answer my question.
--
If you have had problems with Illinois Student Assistance Commission (ISAC),
please contact shredder at bellsouth dot net. There may be a class-action
lawsuit
in the works.
Scott Hedrick
> Then minor sow stoppers
Does your wife know you call her a "sow"?
> I love being married
But it doesn't happen for long when you call your wife a "sow".
Scott Hedrick
in message news:M9JjMVNknYd$Ew...@merseia.fsnet.co.uk...
> Conversely, of course, they are inventing a lot of history (see, I got
> the "h" word in ) which wasn't there in the previous series.
> Either they will ignore it was they will say they are now in a different
> time-line. Which is true, of course
Some things *are* different- for example, we didn't have tne Eugenics Wars
in 1992. That we know of.
While it hasn't been said officially, I'm betting that the "Temporal Cold
War" will be the excuse they use to explain the lack of continuity.
Brian Thorn
wrote:
>>>Indeed. Plus, you were left with the distinct notion that the Earth-
>>>Romulan War was the first time, or very close to it, that Earth knew
>>>of the Romulans, their ships, their appearance, and so on.
>>
>> Cite? I remember nothing to that effect in "Balance of Terror".
>
>The references to what Romulan ships looked like, in that episode,
>come from Stiles, whose pedigree on such matters goes back to the
>E-R War, but no farther.
>It is therefore logical, to infer that said descriptions stem from
>said war, but also no farther.
How did you get that? One does not follow from the other. Stiles says
an ancestor of his fought in that war. My father fought the Germans in
World War II. Is it logical to assume that my father knew nothing of
the Germans before World War II?
>> No, it's moved back 5-10 years, tops, which I think is 'in the noise'
>> for the never-firm Star Trek historical timeline. "Balance of Terror"
>> referred to the Earth-Romulan War being a century earlier, while
>> "Enterprise" is set around 110 years before Kirk.
>
>Have we been specifically told that the first mission of NX-01 is
>1100 years prior to the chronicled voyages of 1701 ?
Yes (115 years, anyway) by the "Voyager" episode "Q2". Kirk's 5-year
mission was said to have ended in 2270, hence it began in 2265-66.
"Enterprise" began in 2151 and is now in 2152. TNG's "The Outcast"
established the Federation being founded in 2161. TNG itself is said
to take place in the year 2364 in TNG's "Neutral Zone".
>Indeed. Thats one of the TOS canons that the current destroyers of
>Trek have violated.
The "temporal cold war" must have changed everything. But if they're
going to change everything, why bother with a prequel?
Brian
Scott Hedrick
news:3F75DCC0...@Adelphia.net...
You misunderstood- he said democrats, not Democrats. I'm a democratic
republican, but I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. Democrats are
fairly low on the list. Republicans get a leg up only because their average
income is greater, implying greater ability to garner funds, not necessarily
intelligence.
Mike Dicenso
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Andre Lieven wrote:
> >>
> >> Indeed. Plus, you were left with the distinct notion that the Earth-
> >> Romulan War was the first time, or very close to it, that Earth knew
> >> of the Romulans, their ships, their appearance, and so on.
> >
> > How did you get this?
>
> Since, in both TOS and Enterprise, we've seen no small amount of ship
> boardings, it follows that, the *surprise* on the bridge of the
> NCC-1701 when they first access the one Romulan ship's signals,
> indicates that contact with the Romulans, prior to the E-R War, was
> minimal, to less.
Er, no. THat's not what you wrote above. The contact that the Earth and
Romulan ships prior to the war could not necessarily have been limited to
a couple of contacts (so far there has only been one in ENT), and as I've
pointed out in another posting, you're complaint falls short since Archer
and crew no next to nothing about Romulans. There was no visual
communication in "MineField", and there was no way for the crew to scan
the Romulans since the ships were well-shielded. Hence nothing is violated
except that Shiban screwed up and had cloaking devices on the Romulan
ships well before they are supposed to.
> This, of course, leaves out the commentary from " Balance Of Terror "
> that the E-R War was fought with " primitive " ships, possessing no
> visual comm systems, of which, NX-01 has plenty of.
Oh that's bullshit. Spock's briefing was so simplistic that you can make
anything you want out of "Nor was there ship-to-ship visual
communication". Was it because the Earth ships had no visual
communications? I don't think so. That would make the real life ISS more
advanced than Trek ships of the 22nd century! And how could Stiles have
known what was painted on a Romulan ship if no one could see a Romulan
ship at all? It's illogical. No, Shiban's solution was a good one; the
Romulans were so xenophobic and paranoid the simply choose not to
communicate in a visual medium, and their ships were heavily shielded from
scanning. Very simple and neat.
> > Nothing in Spock's brief summery to the crew ever indicated exactly
> > when Earth made contact with the Romulans, nor exactly when the war
> > started, nor the exactly when it came to an end. It's at best an
> > implication that the Earth-Romulan war was the first time Humans had
> > encountered Romulans, but it is also just as probable there was some
> > prior contact which led up to the conflict.
>
>
> >> Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
> >
> > Move what back? The Earth-Romulan war was said to have occured over 100
> > years prior to "Balance of Terror". Having a first contact in 2151
> > is about right right, with the war following a few years later.
>
> In which case, rather than this nonsense about the " Expanse ", had
> Bragga et al, wanted to " jazz " up Enterprise with a space war, the
> logical war to have shown would have been the E-R War, since it fits
> the timeline closely enough.
I honestly don't care that the Xindi situation is happening when it is. No
one could say anything one way or the other in the vauge history of the
Trek storyverse whether or not there was such a conflict preceding the
Earth-Romulan war, and we still don't know how the Earth-Xindi conflict
will end up. So far, there has not been an all-out war with thousands of
ships doing battle or anything like that. The Romulan conflict can take a
couple years more to simmer before it gets going, and still fit within
what little has been established.
> Indeed, these shifts away from earlier canon, nly show that Bragga et
> al, in the words of Harlan Ellison, " can't write for sour owl poop. "
Ah yes, Harlan Ellison. Is he still whining about the "City on the Edge of
Forever" rewrite? ;-)
-Mike
Mike Dicenso
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Michael Walsh wrote:
> > an implication that the Earth-Romulan war was the first time Humans had
> > encountered Romulans, but it is also just as probable there was some prior
> > contact which led up to the conflict.
> >
> > > Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
> >
> > Move what back? The Earth-Romulan war was said to have occured over 100
> > years prior to "Balance of Terror". Having a first contact in 2151
> > is about right right, with the war following a few years later.
> > -Mike
>
> The show is trying to make contact with some of these later happenings
> without completely blowing the history. Sometimes this is a bit strange,
> as the story indicates that Starfleet knew about the Borg, but kept it
> a secret for hundreds of years.
>
> Of course, the presence of the Borg was a part of an earlier movie.
Most people haven't figured out that "Regeneration" was essentially a
sequel of sorts to Star Trek: First Contact. The Borg sphere blown to
pieces in FC is the same one discovered by the science team. Note that
mention is made of Cochrane trying to tell people about the Borg, and how
humans from the future stopped them.
So, in essence, ENT is taking place in an alternate timeline caused by the
time travel incident in ST:FC. It certainly explains the somewhat higher
level of technology, and the slightly altered history. Cochrane would
certainly have done all he could to push technology as fast as he could.
-Mike
Mike Dicenso
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, OM wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:42:21 -0700, Mike Dicenso
> <mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:
>
> >You're strange rant here only makes me think that you're the one with some
> >kind of sexual hang up.
>
> ...Hey, back off of Pat, Mike. We just got him back on around here,
> and we don't want him chased off again. The guy brings a dadaist input
> to the group to balance my satirist views, and we need him here.
>
> Now, go pet your tribble and behave yourself, eh?
Disgusting creatures! I'am glad that they're homeworld was obliterated! So
hah!
-Mike
OM
<mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:
>> Indeed, these shifts away from earlier canon, nly show that Bragga et
>> al, in the words of Harlan Ellison, " can't write for sour owl poop. "
>
>Ah yes, Harlan Ellison. Is he still whining about the "City on the Edge of
>Forever" rewrite? ;-)
...Or, as we older Trekkers refer to the midget with a mouth,
"Complaining until the End of Forever."
Andre Lieven
> On 27 Sep 2003 15:58:10 GMT, dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Lieven)
> wrote:
>
>>And, more men agree with me, than not. Compare the female body
>>types found in Vogue, and Playboy....
>
> ...Except that when polled, men also point out that what they do *NOT*
> like to see is those nekked bodies *pouting*. What some idiot
> photographer thinks is "sexy", the pursing of the lips in an attempt
> to portray an emotion they -think- is "I want to rip your clothes off
> and rape you right here and now, mister!" is to 94% of the males
> looking at those photos nothing more than "I'm a spoiled bitch from
> hell, and if you don't give me all your money for nothing in return
> I'll hate you for the rest of your life!"
Well, yeah, but it often takes an... experienced guy to note the
difference. 20 year old guys may not make that cut, but they still
have the $$$ to line the publisher's pockets...
And, even those guys aren't that turned on by starving models...
> To that 94%, rather than buy a magazine with photos like that, it's
> cheaper just tell your SO she's getting fat, and needs to walk it off
> by going to the kitchen and getting you a beer.
OK, you owe favours to divorce lawyers, right ? <g>
" Men will be nice, when nice guys get laid. " Rod Van Mechelen.
Andre Lieven
> In message <bl4l8m$434$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca>, Andre Lieven
> <dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> writes
>>Michael Walsh (mp1w...@Adelphia.net) writes:
>>
>>> Of course, the presence of the Borg was a part of an earlier movie.
>>
>>Indeed, but without contaminating the 21st century timeline.
>>
>>Andre
>
> Presumably, but not proven.
No sign of it yet...
Andre Lieven
> On 27 Sep 2003 18:32:44 GMT, dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Lieven)
> wrote:
>
>>>>Indeed. Plus, you were left with the distinct notion that the Earth-
>>>>Romulan War was the first time, or very close to it, that Earth knew
>>>>of the Romulans, their ships, their appearance, and so on.
>>>
>>> Cite? I remember nothing to that effect in "Balance of Terror".
>>
>>The references to what Romulan ships looked like, in that episode,
>>come from Stiles, whose pedigree on such matters goes back to the
>>E-R War, but no farther.
>
>>It is therefore logical, to infer that said descriptions stem from
>>said war, but also no farther.
>
> How did you get that?
Because the discussion on the bridge wasn't about the E-R War, but
was rather, about the basis for any belief that the ship attacking the
Federation outposts was, in fact, a Romulan.
Had data from prior to the E-R War been relevent, as would be the
records of the NX-01's so far depicted encounters, then that there
was pre E-R War data would have been mentioned.
> One does not follow from the other. Stiles says
> an ancestor of his fought in that war. My father fought the Germans in
> World War II. Is it logical to assume that my father knew nothing of
> the Germans before World War II?
Stile's comment was in response to debates about the ID of the
ship on their sensors. That the data from the E-R War was relevent,
but no other data, is the point.
>>> No, it's moved back 5-10 years, tops, which I think is 'in the noise'
>>> for the never-firm Star Trek historical timeline. "Balance of Terror"
>>> referred to the Earth-Romulan War being a century earlier, while
>>> "Enterprise" is set around 110 years before Kirk.
>>
>>Have we been specifically told that the first mission of NX-01 is
>>110 years prior to the chronicled voyages of 1701 ?
>
> Yes (115 years, anyway) by the "Voyager" episode "Q2". Kirk's 5-year
> mission was said to have ended in 2270, hence it began in 2265-66.
> "Enterprise" began in 2151 and is now in 2152. TNG's "The Outcast"
> established the Federation being founded in 2161. TNG itself is said
> to take place in the year 2364 in TNG's "Neutral Zone".
OK, though its worth remembering that, often, Trek data isn't
consistant, between series'.
>>Indeed. Thats one of the TOS canons that the current destroyers of
>>Trek have violated.
>
> The "temporal cold war" must have changed everything. But if they're
> going to change everything, why bother with a prequel?
Indeed. This seems to be going towards DC's old multiple Earths
universe...
Andre Lieven
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Andre Lieven wrote:
>
>> >> Indeed. Plus, you were left with the distinct notion that the Earth-
>> >> Romulan War was the first time, or very close to it, that Earth knew
>> >> of the Romulans, their ships, their appearance, and so on.
>> >
>> > How did you get this?
>>
>> Since, in both TOS and Enterprise, we've seen no small amount of ship
>> boardings, it follows that, the *surprise* on the bridge of the
>> NCC-1701 when they first access the one Romulan ship's signals,
>> indicates that contact with the Romulans, prior to the E-R War, was
>> minimal, to less.
>
> Er, no. THat's not what you wrote above.
Its not all of it, no. But, at the time of my first, above quoted
post, I wasn't going into 100% total detail.
> The contact that the Earth and
> Romulan ships prior to the war could not necessarily have been limited to
> a couple of contacts (so far there has only been one in ENT), and as I've
> pointed out in another posting, you're complaint falls short since Archer
> and crew no next to nothing about Romulans. There was no visual
> communication in "MineField", and there was no way for the crew to scan
> the Romulans since the ships were well-shielded. Hence nothing is violated
> except that Shiban screwed up and had cloaking devices on the Romulan
> ships well before they are supposed to.
Well, both that, and the shape and markings of the Romulan ships
were both giveaways.
Which is what I said...
>> This, of course, leaves out the commentary from " Balance Of Terror "
>> that the E-R War was fought with " primitive " ships, possessing no
>> visual comm systems, of which, NX-01 has plenty of.
>
> Oh that's bullshit.
Nope.
> Spock's briefing was so simplistic that you can make
> anything you want out of "Nor was there ship-to-ship visual
> communication".
In which case, my interpretation of it is as valid as is yours...
> Was it because the Earth ships had no visual communications?
Well, based on Enterprise, evidently not.
> I don't think so. That would make the real life ISS more
> advanced than Trek ships of the 22nd century!
Incorrect. Non compatible systems might not transfer usable
data from one to the other, the compatibility of Apple computers
to alien systems in ID4 notwithstanding...
Plus, such connections between non compatible systems might
not work as well, while at Warp, v/ while at Impulse...
> And how could Stiles have
> known what was painted on a Romulan ship if no one could see a Romulan
> ship at all?
Who said that no one saw a Rom ship ?
> It's illogical. No, Shiban's solution was a good one; the
> Romulans were so xenophobic and paranoid the simply choose not to
> communicate in a visual medium, and their ships were heavily shielded
> from scanning. Very simple and neat.
Yet, leaving Earth with a record of the exterior appearance of Rom ships...
>> > Nothing in Spock's brief summery to the crew ever indicated exactly
>> > when Earth made contact with the Romulans, nor exactly when the war
>> > started, nor the exactly when it came to an end. It's at best an
>> > implication that the Earth-Romulan war was the first time Humans had
>> > encountered Romulans, but it is also just as probable there was some
>> > prior contact which led up to the conflict.
>>
>> >> Now, we move that back 90+ years ? Puh-lease !
>> >
>> > Move what back? The Earth-Romulan war was said to have occured over 100
>> > years prior to "Balance of Terror". Having a first contact in 2151
>> > is about right right, with the war following a few years later.
>>
>> In which case, rather than this nonsense about the " Expanse ", had
>> Bragga et al, wanted to " jazz " up Enterprise with a space war, the
>> logical war to have shown would have been the E-R War, since it fits
>> the timeline closely enough.
>
> I honestly don't care that the Xindi situation is happening when it is. No
> one could say anything one way or the other in the vauge history of the
> Trek storyverse whether or not there was such a conflict preceding the
> Earth-Romulan war, and we still don't know how the Earth-Xindi conflict
> will end up. So far, there has not been an all-out war with thousands of
> ships doing battle or anything like that. The Romulan conflict can take a
> couple years more to simmer before it gets going, and still fit within
> what little has been established.
Well, one would be a bit hard pressed to fit two major wars into a
seven year series, that, according to the title song, is about
finally getting out there.
Are Bragga, et al, trying to set up an alternate timeline where
Earth, battered by multiple and rapid intervaled invasions, simply
says " fuck it ", and abandons space, altogether ?
If we're gonna go there, that was sorta covered by the Earth-
Minbari War...
>> Indeed, these shifts away from earlier canon, nly show that Bragga et
>> al, in the words of Harlan Ellison, " can't write for sour owl poop. "
>
> Ah yes, Harlan Ellison. Is he still whining about the "City on the Edge
> of Forever" rewrite? ;-)
I've not heard him speak of it, since 1996. And, his book on same
is ample proof of his position.
Including Roddenbery's lies about what he did...
OM
wrote:
>Well, yeah, but it often takes an... experienced guy to note the
>difference. 20 year old guys may not make that cut, but they still
>have the $$$ to line the publisher's pockets...
...Do they? I submit the current financial condition of _Penthouse
Magazine_ as evidence that the $$$ aren't there anymore. Not even
including hard core porn shots have managed to save that rag, while
_Playboy_ is still holding its own.
Jonathan Silverlight
Dicenso <mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu> writes
Despite the fact that he "quietly accepted the Hugo" as 'Fantastic
Television' puts it.
--
"Forty millions of miles it was from us, more than forty millions of miles of
void"
LooseChanj
> consistant, between series'.
Hell, sometimes it's not even consistent between *commercials*.
--
This is a siggy | To E-mail, do note | This space is for rent
It's properly formatted | who you mean to reply-to | Inquire within if you
No person, none, care | and it will reach me | Would like your ad here
Andre Lieven
> On 28 Sep 2003 05:22:04 GMT, dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Lieven)
> wrote:
>
>>Well, yeah, but it often takes an... experienced guy to note the
>>difference. 20 year old guys may not make that cut, but they still
>>have the $$$ to line the publisher's pockets...
>
> ...Do they? I submit the current financial condition of _Penthouse
> Magazine_ as evidence that the $$$ aren't there anymore. Not even
> including hard core porn shots have managed to save that rag, while
> _Playboy_ is still holding its own.
Well, individual mags may rise and fall ( <g> ), but the field
continues on.
In what way did Penthouse include hard core shots ?
Andre Lieven
> On or about 28 Sep 2003 05:30:22 GMT, Andre Lieven <dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA>
> made the sensational claim that:
>> OK, though its worth remembering that, often, Trek data isn't
>> consistant, between series'.
>
> Hell, sometimes it's not even consistent between *commercials*.
Indeed.
Brian Thorn
wrote:
>> How did you get that?
>Because the discussion on the bridge wasn't about the E-R War, but
>was rather, about the basis for any belief that the ship attacking the
>Federation outposts was, in fact, a Romulan.
Agreed, but you're reading much, much more into this than is actually
said in the episode.
Early on, when the first outpost was attacked and Enterprise went on
red alert, Kirk asks Uhura if the outpost gave any indication who was
attacking them (they didn't.) This is while the Enterprise is
patrolling the neutral zone between Romulan and Federation territory,
so everyone on the ship already suspects the Romulans.
Stiles: "There can't be much doubt who attacked them."
This is followed by a long speech by Kirk and Spock to the crew,
describing the history between Earth and Romulus. There is no mention
of first contact between Earth and Romulus, only that there was a war
100 years earlier. Then...
Stiles: "We know Outpost 4 has been attacked, sir. So if we attack
Romulans now..."
Kirk: "After a whole century, what will a Romulan ship look like, Mr.
Stiles? I doubt they'll radio and identify themselves."
Stiles: "You'll know, sir. They're painted like a giant Bird of Prey."
Kirk: "I had no idea history was your specialty."
Stiles: "Family history. There was a Captain Stiles in the Space
Service then. Two commanders, several junior officers. All lost in
that war, sir."
Kirk: "Their war, Mr. Stiles. Not yours."
That's it. From that point on, we get into technical issues about the
Romulans and their relation to the Vulcans.
>Had data from prior to the E-R War been relevent, as would be the
>records of the NX-01's so far depicted encounters, then that there
>was pre E-R War data would have been mentioned.
No, all the information presented in that scene comes from Stiles, who
clearly has a grudge against the Romulans throughout the episode. This
information isn't Spock reading the library computer or the official
ship's historian giving her input, it's one man's family history.
>OK, though its worth remembering that, often, Trek data isn't
>consistant, between series'.
There are some references totally out of whack in Original Trek (is
Kirk's mission 200 years in the future, or 300?) but after jumping
around a bit, the Powers That Be did finally settled on TOS being 300
years ahead of its time, beginning the first two movies with the tag
line, "In The 23rd Century..." Except for a writer's brain-fart in DS9
(where Khan is still said to have been 200 years earlier, instead of
400) the later shows have all held to TOS being set in the mid 23rd
Century.
Brian
Derek Lyons
wrote:
>On 28 Sep 2003 05:22:04 GMT, dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Lieven)
>wrote:
>
>>Well, yeah, but it often takes an... experienced guy to note the
>>difference. 20 year old guys may not make that cut, but they still
>>have the $$$ to line the publisher's pockets...
>
>...Do they? I submit the current financial condition of _Penthouse
>Magazine_ as evidence that the $$$ aren't there anymore. Not even
>including hard core porn shots have managed to save that rag, while
>_Playboy_ is still holding its own.
Penthouse, like it's cousin Omni, is failing because it lost it's clue
as to what it's target market was. With mag's like FHM and Maxim now
on the market, and Hustler et al getting harder, Penthouse lost it's
reason for being.
D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:
Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html
Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html
Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to o...@io.com, as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.
OM
Lyons) wrote:
>Penthouse, like it's cousin Omni, is failing because it lost it's clue
>as to what it's target market was.
...This was *very* accurate where _Omni_ was concerned. Due to my
contacts within the _Penthouse_ organization, I was able to discern
that the entire *company* blamed Guccione for the demise of _Omni_,
which was caused by a major lack of mismanagement by his daughter, who
was "given" the magazine to break her into the business. It went from
being the _SciAm_ and _Analog_ for the rest of the newsstand readers
to a pile of ads and fluff pieces with no real content. They even quit
scooping _SciAm_ on amazing photographs from the world of science,
which is why I had a subscription to _Omni_ all through high
school(*).
I miss that magazine. It's one of the reasons I've wanted to bitchslap
BG's idiot offspring with a 2x4 almost as much as I want to see John
Maxson die a painful natural death at his terminal in his run-down
trailer...
(*) Not to mention the fact that the magazine, being the same size and
shape as an issue of _Penthouse_ was great for pulling gags on my
more annoying and lesser qualified teachers :-)
Herb Schaltegger
derekl19...@yahoo.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
> Penthouse, like it's cousin Omni, is failing because it lost it's clue
> as to what it's target market was. With mag's like FHM and Maxim now
> on the market, and Hustler et al getting harder, Penthouse lost it's
> reason for being.
>
> D.
That, and the fact that alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.* groups provide
all the porn that one could possibly want (with subgroups to suit
ANYONE'S tastes, pleasures and kinks) for just the price of a usenet
feed. ;-)
--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
Reformed Aerospace Engineer
"Heisenberg might have been here."
~ Anonymous
OM
wrote:
>There are some references totally out of whack in Original Trek (is
>Kirk's mission 200 years in the future, or 300?) but after jumping
>around a bit, the Powers That Be did finally settled on TOS being 300
>years ahead of its time, beginning the first two movies with the tag
>line, "In The 23rd Century..." Except for a writer's brain-fart in DS9
>(where Khan is still said to have been 200 years earlier, instead of
>400) the later shows have all held to TOS being set in the mid 23rd
>Century.
...And if only to live long enough to see TOS or even "Enterprise"
viewed the same way we now view "2001" - speculative historical
fiction as opposed to science fiction :-)
OM
wrote:
>In what way did Penthouse include hard core shots ?
...Do I *really* need to describe them? Pick up the last few years of
issues and you'll see what I mean. US Newsstand issues, I should note.
Scott Hedrick
news:Pine.GSO.4.51.03...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu...
> Er, no. THat's not what you wrote above. The contact that the Earth and
> Romulan ships prior to the war could not necessarily have been limited to
> a couple of contacts
Why not? One good reason for the war would be the closeness of the Romulan
and emerging Earth Empire, and as we see from Franz Joseph's technical
manual the Federation claims thousands of light years; with the Romulans
only a few dozen light years away at most, they have good reason to attack
and prevent us from horning in on their territory.
> Hence nothing is violated
> except that Shiban screwed up and had cloaking devices on the Romulan
> ships well before they are supposed to.
This is a serious screw up. The Romulans don't yet have warp drive, but this
doesn't stop them from planting a colony very far away from their
homeworlds. All in all, since they've managed FTL travel without warp drive,
having a cloaking device gives them a tremedous edge.
> Oh that's bullshit. Spock's briefing was so simplistic that you can make
> anything you want out of "Nor was there ship-to-ship visual
> communication". Was it because the Earth ships had no visual
> communications? I don't think so. That would make the real life ISS more
> advanced than Trek ships of the 22nd century!
Spoke didn't say "there were no visual communications on Earth ships"- his
statement clearly meant that either the visual communication systems were
incompatible, or that the Romulans chose not to transmit visuals. If Earth
wanted to see what a ship looked like, OF COURSE it would use visual sensors
of some kind, if only an astronaut with a telephoto lens at a window!
Interesting how the Romulan sensors could determine the number of bolts
remaining to hold on the hull plating... THAT sounds pretty bogus to me. It
seems that every space-faring race the humans have met so far are
technologically superior.
OM
<herbsch...@spamtrap.invalid> wrote:
>In article <3f7718ac...@supernews.seanet.com>,
> derekl19...@yahoo.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>
>> Penthouse, like it's cousin Omni, is failing because it lost it's clue
>> as to what it's target market was. With mag's like FHM and Maxim now
>> on the market, and Hustler et al getting harder, Penthouse lost it's
>> reason for being.
>
>That, and the fact that alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.* groups provide
>all the porn that one could possibly want (with subgroups to suit
>ANYONE'S tastes, pleasures and kinks) for just the price of a usenet
>feed. ;-)
...And this is a valid point. Where _Playboy_ is concerned, most
people subscribe or buy it off the newsstands because of tradition -
their father/grandfather read it and passed the old copies down to the
next generation, or they've been buying it since they looked old
enough and could fool the idiot behind the counter at the neighborhood
7-11. As for _Hustler_, most who buy it are Larry Flynt supporters for
some oddball reason, and do so to help out his latest screwball
activities. The other skin rags hold onto what they have because they
run on the cheap side production-wise.
..._Penthouse_, on the other hand, made quite a few mistakes
management-wise, and was throwing money away on areas that didn't
bring in the bucks they'd hoped for. In fact, even their online
service isn't setting the world on fire. I've had a subscription to it
for about three years now, but only because I need to grab images of
Pets who are showing up at one of the clubs I do website work for. On
occasion, I've surfed the site just to see if it's worth what other
people are paying for(*), and I've noticed that with the exception of
the monthly Pet updates, they're still showing the same streaming
content they did when I first logged on back in '00. And lord knows
where they stole *that* from, because only a small amount of it is
Penthouse-produced material.
(*) I have a free sub. Remember, I do the website for one of their
affilated clubs :-P
Mike Dicenso
The shape of the ships is about the only thing. KIrk would have been
playing things safe in not assuming initially that the ship was Romuloan.
For all that he (Kirk) knew the ship which looked like a Romulan craft was
maybe something commandeered, or was made to look like a Romulan ship in
order to start the war again while another power that staged the war
cleaned up. Hence, Kirk's studying the enemy and making sure befoer he
took action.
> >> This, of course, leaves out the commentary from " Balance Of Terror "
> >> that the E-R War was fought with " primitive " ships, possessing no
> >> visual comm systems, of which, NX-01 has plenty of.
> >
> > Oh that's bullshit.
>
> Nope.
>
> > Spock's briefing was so simplistic that you can make
> > anything you want out of "Nor was there ship-to-ship visual
> > communication".
>
> In which case, my interpretation of it is as valid as is yours...
>
> > Was it because the Earth ships had no visual communications?
>
> Well, based on Enterprise, evidently not.
Yes, and....
> > I don't think so. That would make the real life ISS more advanced than
> > Trek ships of the 22nd century!
>
> Incorrect. Non compatible systems might not transfer usable
> data from one to the other, the compatibility of Apple computers
> to alien systems in ID4 notwithstanding...
That's one way it could have gone. But so far it looks as though the
Romulans choose to keep their identity a secret by communicating in audio
mode only. That's just fine with what little was established.
> Plus, such connections between non compatible systems might not work as
> well, while at Warp, v/ while at Impulse...
If anything, you've only strengthed my postion by giving several
possibilites that still have the the shipt-to-ship visual media on-board
an early Earth starship, while explaining why there was no visual
communication attempts between the warring parties.
According one writer on the Star Trek writers' panel at Comicon, the
Romulan will be delt with in season 5, if the series gets that far. The
Xindi situation does not have to end up as a major, all-out conflict, and
Spock would have had no reason to mention it, along with the longstanding
Klingon conflicts since the context was about that particular region of
space, and the strong possibility of the attacking intruder being of
Romulan origion. My bet is that the Xindi conflict will be largely
resolved without major fleet actions and the like, and ultimately it will
be discovered that the Xindi and Earth are being manipulated into fighting
each other. Once this is discovered, both Earth and Xindi will likely
become allies.
> Are Bragga, et al, trying to set up an alternate timeline where Earth,
> battered by multiple and rapid intervaled invasions, simply says " fuck
> it ", and abandons space, altogether ?
From what we know, it would make certain factions in the Temporal Cold War
very happy to see that happen.
> If we're gonna go there, that was sorta covered by the Earth- Minbari
> War...
>
> >> Indeed, these shifts away from earlier canon, nly show that Bragga et
> >> al, in the words of Harlan Ellison, " can't write for sour owl poop. "
> >
> > Ah yes, Harlan Ellison. Is he still whining about the "City on the Edge
> > of Forever" rewrite? ;-)
>
> I've not heard him speak of it, since 1996. And, his book on same
> is ample proof of his position.
>
> Including Roddenbery's lies about what he did...
So you blindly accept what Ellison says, dispite the fact that Roddenberry
is no longer here to defend himself?
Mike Dicenso
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Jonathan Silverlight wrote:
> n message <Pine.GSO.4.51.03...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu>, Mike
> Dicenso <mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu> writes
> >
> >
> >On Sat, 27 Sep 2003, Andre Lieven wrote:
> >
> >> Indeed, these shifts away from earlier canon, nly show that Bragga et
> >> al, in the words of Harlan Ellison, " can't write for sour owl poop. "
> >
> >Ah yes, Harlan Ellison. Is he still whining about the "City on the Edge of
> >Forever" rewrite? ;-)
>
> Despite the fact that he "quietly accepted the Hugo" as 'Fantastic
> Television' puts it.
I thought the Hugo award was for the original script treament. Or am I
misremembering?
-Mike
Mike Dicenso
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Scott Hedrick wrote:
> "Mike Dicenso" <mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.GSO.4.51.03...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu...
> > Er, no. THat's not what you wrote above. The contact that the Earth and
> > Romulan ships prior to the war could not necessarily have been limited to
> > a couple of contacts
>
> Why not? One good reason for the war would be the closeness of the Romulan
> and emerging Earth Empire, and as we see from Franz Joseph's technical
> manual the Federation claims thousands of light years; with the Romulans
> only a few dozen light years away at most, they have good reason to attack
> and prevent us from horning in on their territory.
The Franz Joesph TM material is for the most part non-canon whith the
exception the Ptolemy and Hermes class ship diagrams (shown on a console
display briefly in ST:TWOK). The Federation does not exist in the 2150's
and will not exist until 2161. So there is no territory disputes just yet,
only a matter of something like the NX-01 or another Earth ship bumping
into already claimed Romulan territory as was the case in "Minefield".
> > Hence nothing is violated except that Shiban screwed up and had
> > cloaking devices on the Romulan ships well before they are supposed
> > to.
>
> This is a serious screw up. The Romulans don't yet have warp drive, but this
> doesn't stop them from planting a colony very far away from their
> homeworlds. All in all, since they've managed FTL travel without warp drive,
> having a cloaking device gives them a tremedous edge.
The Romulans do have a form of warp drive as seen on the BoPs in the
2150's and the BoPs of the 2260's. Apparently the Romulans do not use
antimatter, just fusion, which seems to have led to Scotty's confusion in
the useage of the term "impulse power" to describe the Romulan ship's main
power source.
> > Oh that's bullshit. Spock's briefing was so simplistic that you can
> > make anything you want out of "Nor was there ship-to-ship visual
> > communication". Was it because the Earth ships had no visual
> > communications? I don't think so. That would make the real life ISS
> > more advanced than Trek ships of the 22nd century!
>
> Spoke didn't say "there were no visual communications on Earth ships"- his
> statement clearly meant that either the visual communication systems were
> incompatible, or that the Romulans chose not to transmit visuals. If Earth
> wanted to see what a ship looked like, OF COURSE it would use visual sensors
> of some kind, if only an astronaut with a telephoto lens at a window!
That's my point in essence; Spock made only a very basic description of
the region's history; probably assuming that most of the crew knew enough
on their own, especially since there was no time for him to give a proper
history lesson anyway. But the point is moot since the Romulans have now
been firmally established to be choosing audio only, and masking the
interiors of their ships from prying sensors.
> Interesting how the Romulan sensors could determine the number of bolts
> remaining to hold on the hull plating... THAT sounds pretty bogus to me.
> It seems that every space-faring race the humans have met so far are
> technologically superior.
Not every one. The aliens in "Dear Doctor" were easily more than a century
behind Earth, and did not have warp drive. It's not suprising that most
aliens are at, or just above Humanity in tech level; Humans are the
Johnny-Come-Lately to the galactic scene, and have only just achived a
level of FTL that lets them actually get anywhere in a reasonable amount
of time. So for that I'am glad to see.
-Mike