RIP Pat Flannery?

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

Is this *our* Pat Flannery?
http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/

"Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at his
home."

Pithy.

[David Spain]

I'm trying to get confirmation tomorrow.
I'll let folks here know what I find out.

Dave

[Greg (Strider) Moore]

Damn, I hope not. I'm really hoping to see a post from him tomorrow
launching into how the stories of his death are greatly exaggerated and how
Ziegfield's Folly's were the epitome of Russio-American artistry and had an
impact on the evacuation procedures of the Sperry ball turret.

Please, if someone can confirm and perhaps get a family contact.

[Obviousman]

Jeez, I hope not.

[David Spain]

This is NOT a good sign.

You *never* want your phone company to classify you as cuda_nsu.

Dave

At least Pat would have seen the humor in that one....
More details to follow...

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

fla...@daktel.com

Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient
domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further
information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server
returned was: 550 550 cuda_nsu <fla...@daktel.com>... No such mailbox (state 14).

[Jeff Findley]

In article <StWdnRIo4KPfWQvT...@giganews.com>, nospam@
127.0.0.1 says...

That was his email address. Damn.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. ;) "
- tinker

[Alan Erskine]

Is it the right town?

[David Spain]

Alan Erskine wrote:
> Is it the right town?

To the best of my knowledge it is.
I will post more details as I get them.

Dave

[David Spain]

There have been no funeral arrangements made as yet, the
body has been cremated.

His parents are not surviving. There is a surviving brother,
I have requested my contact information be forwarded to him.

Dave

[Jeff Findley]

In article <TIBlq.4087$NR2....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>,
alan.e...@bigpond.com says...

This is a Usenet posting I found using Google Groups:

| Patrick Flannery View profile
| More options Jun 22 2001, 11:41 pm
|
| Newsgroups: sci.space.history
| From: "Patrick Flannery" <flan...@daktel.com>
| Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 22:38:42 -0500
| Local: Fri, Jun 22 2001 11:38 pm
| Subject: Re: Gemini spacesuits
| Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message |
| Find messages by this author
| And may I further add that the town I live in has a small
| population of only 15,000- and a very small public library
| that has fewer books on space exploration in it than I do
| in my private collection- and if we do run into newbies
| on this subject, we may well want to encourage them, as
| you never know just where they may end up.
| Patrick Flannery
| Jamestown, North Dakota....Hometown of Rick Hieb; shuttle
| astronaut, 1985 selections.
| (He was two years ahead of me in high school... and damn
| it, I never met him...)

[GordonD]

"Jeff Findley" <jeff.f...@nospam.ugs.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2900c1ae2...@news.eternal-september.org...

Damn, that seems to settle it.

I was mainly a lurker here but I always enjoyed Pat's quirky sense of
humour.

LOS, Pat. We'll see you on the other side.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

"Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God."

[David Spain]

Jeff Findley wrote:
> In article <TIBlq.4087$NR2....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>,
> alan.e...@bigpond.com says...
>> On 13/10/2011 1:00 PM, scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>> Is this *our* Pat Flannery?
>>> http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/
>>>
>>> "Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at his
>>> home."
>>>
>>> Pithy.
>> Is it the right town?
>
> This is a Usenet posting I found using Google Groups:

> | Patrick Flannery

> | Jamestown, North Dakota....Hometown of Rick Hieb; shuttle
> | astronaut, 1985 selections.
> | (He was two years ahead of me in high school... and damn
> | it, I never met him...)

And I remember this one:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.space.policy/browse_thread/thread/59d18dc5bb2c14da/e3322de206b9ff12?

Dave

[David Spain]

One of my favorite snarks to Pat....

Dave

Newsgroups: sci.space.policy, sci.space.history
From: David Spain <nos...@127.0.0.1>
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 01:44:12 -0400
Local: Mon, Apr 20 2009 1:44 am
Subject: Re: OT- If I suddenly vanish
Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original |

Report this message | Find messages by this author

Pat Flannery <flan...@daktel.com> writes:
> Derek Lyons wrote:
>> We're all thinking of you Pat. Some of us even positively.. :)

> Time to build a Ark... into it must be put two blonds, two brunettes, two
> redheads...maybe four redheads.... :-)

> Pat

Here you go Pat,

http://image03.webshots.com/3/2/31/95/13423195YOSnPZSARL_ph.jpg
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_02/MonkeyWaterAP_468x314.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44423000/jpg/_44423956_monkey_g...

Good Luck.
Dave

[Kulin Remailer]

"David Spain" <nos...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:bN6dnaONVfjTcgvT...@giganews.com...

It surprises me that you guys are this interested in someone you only
know through Usenet. Have you guys ever met Pat in real life (IRL)?

If it *is* Pat than he passed away relatively young at just 56. He
posted here only a few days ago (September 24th).

[David Spain]

Kulin Remailer wrote:
> It surprises me that you guys are this interested in someone you only
> know through Usenet. Have you guys ever met Pat in real life (IRL)?
>

You get a feel for someone after years of reading his postings here.
I never met Pat IRL (FWTW) but I'd hoped to someday. Now that is not
possible. IRL doesn't seem to have been that good to Pat either.
A one line obit in the local paper and nearly 2 weeks gone with no funeral
arrangements? Have a heart.

> If it *is* Pat than he passed away relatively young at just 56. He
> posted here only a few days ago (September 24th).

There was I time when I thought 56 was old, nearly ancient in fact.
Not so much anymore. All things are relative.

Dave

[Val Kraut]

> It surprises me that you guys are this interested in someone you only
> know through Usenet. Have you guys ever met Pat in real life (IRL)?
>
> If it *is* Pat than he passed away relatively young at just 56. He
> posted here only a few days ago (September 24th).

This has happened on other groups - there's someone who consistently makes
intertesting posts - and you just get to expect them each day when you go
in - in fact you go in each day and look for his posts - and suddenly they
stop. The absence is noted and some other members try to sort out what
happened. In some cases the guy got sick and comes back, or he is having
problems with his internet provider and eventually reappears, and in some
cases he's just gone. If this is true, suddenly at home at 56 is truly sad
and shocking. His presence on the groups will be missed.

Val Kraut

[Jeff Findley]

In article <4e972d6d$0$1991$607e...@cv.net>, mar...@optonline.net
says...

>
> This has happened on other groups - there's someone who consistently makes
> intertesting posts - and you just get to expect them each day when you go
> in - in fact you go in each day and look for his posts - and suddenly they
> stop. The absence is noted and some other members try to sort out what
> happened. In some cases the guy got sick and comes back, or he is having
> problems with his internet provider and eventually reappears, and in some
> cases he's just gone. If this is true, suddenly at home at 56 is truly sad
> and shocking. His presence on the groups will be missed.

Sadly, this has happened before.

I'm a huge LEGO fan, and have been for years. On July 25, 1997, James
Jessiman passed away at quite a young age. He wrote the original LDraw
program (for DOS, of all things) which was the birth of the online LEGO
CAD community. Much, much later, LEGO came up with a program of their
own to do much the same thing (LEGO Digital Designer), but without
James, I'm not sure if they would have been "inspired" to release such a
program to the general public.

James was such a huge presence in the online LEGO community that his
memory has been kept alive through a the James Jessiman Memorial Award.

Jeff

[Snidely]

"Val Kraut" <mar...@optonline.net> scribbled something like ...

> If this is
> true, suddenly at home at 56 is truly sad and shocking. His presence
> on the groups will be missed.

He will be missed, and it is sad, but I'm not sure that it's shocking given
that Pat had admitted to health issues for the last several years.

/dps

[Dr.Colon Oscopy]

On Oct 12, 10:00 pm, "scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com"
<scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Is this *our* Pat Flannery?http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/

>
> "Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at his
> home."
>
> Pithy.

I am deeply saddened to hear this. His posts were always interesting
and his humour was such you'ld go back and read it again and laughter
would start anew. Type of guy you would think you could meet for the
first time and feel like you knew him for years,
sad..................Doc

[Jonathan]

"Kulin Remailer" <rema...@reece.net.au> wrote in message
news:FHPG6IBQ4083...@reece.net.au...

> "David Spain" <nos...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> news:bN6dnaONVfjTcgvT...@giganews.com...
>> David Spain wrote:
>>> Alan Erskine wrote:
>>>> Is it the right town?
>>>
>>> To the best of my knowledge it is.
>>> I will post more details as I get them.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>> There have been no funeral arrangements made as yet, the
>> body has been cremated.
>>
>> His parents are not surviving. There is a surviving brother,
>> I have requested my contact information be forwarded to him.
>>
>
> It surprises me that you guys are this interested in someone you only
> know through Usenet. Have you guys ever met Pat in real life (IRL)?

I'm sad to hear the news.

He's been faithfully killfiling me for at least 6 years. I wonder
if he knew I read every one of his posts during all that time?
I'd occasionally change my 'alt' in some small way just to see
if he's still plonking me, and sure enough, each time he'd remark
about my new address without fail. No one else in my entire life
has been so determined to display their contempt for me.

The last direct remark from him I remember was at least
five years ago when he called me a bit 'snarky'. Whatever
that is, I'm certain I was guilty of it many times.

I bet he was a great person to know.

RIP!

Jonathan

"Sweet hours have perished here;
This is a mighty room;
Within its precincts hopes have played,
Now shadows in the tomb."

s

[Brian Thorn]

Wow, this is very sad news. Ad astra, Pat.

Brian

[DK]

On Oct 14, 12:13 am, "Jonathan" <wr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Kulin Remailer" <remai...@reece.net.au> wrote in message

Back in the days when I was an active poster rather than a lurker, Pat
was one of the real larger than life characters, all of whom seem to
have gone now, whether through mortality or other reasons. I'm
thinking of the likes of Beady, OM, Henry Spencer, Mary Schafer,
Rhonda Lea Kirk, doubtless many others deserving of mention. All with
their eccentricities, some subtle, some infuriating, but all
characters.

[Alan Erskine]

My deepest sympathies. I'll miss his sense of humour.

Any idea how he died? I just hope it was painless and quick.

[bob haller]

> Any idea how he died?  I just hope it was painless and quick.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i will miss him too.

this reminds each and every one of us that it could be us next:(

[Paul Madarasz]

On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:00:54 -0700 (PDT), "scottl...@ix.netcom.com"

<scottl...@ix.netcom.com> wrote, perhaps among other things:

The fire maidens are crying.

And so am I.
--
"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."
-- Ed Abbey

[The Big DP]

"Paul Madarasz" <paul.m...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:t9og979e7vqth1jv4...@4ax.com...

I am mostly a lurker....but damn, this is very disconcerting.

God Speed Pat!

Doug

[Alfred S. Dert]

Am 13.10.2011 04:00, schrieb scottl...@ix.netcom.com:
> Is this *our* Pat Flannery?
> http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/
>
> "Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at his
> home."
>
> Pithy.

*silence*

.

[Jonathan]

> "DK" <dave.ke...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f9865833-36d4-44f5...@n18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...

> > On Oct 14, 12:13 am, "Jonathan" <wr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I'm sad to hear the news.

> Back in the days when I was an active poster rather than a lurker, Pat
> was one of the real larger than life characters, all of whom seem to
> have gone now, whether through mortality or other reasons. I'm
> thinking of the likes of Beady, OM, Henry Spencer, Mary Schafer,
> Rhonda Lea Kirk, doubtless many others deserving of mention. All with
> their eccentricities, some subtle, some infuriating, but all
> characters.

Whenever I think about the good old days, for some reason I keep
coming to the conclusion that these are the good old days! Well, ah
except of course for that time with a girlfriend and her younger
sister~

Otherwise...


s

[Jonathan]

"Alan Erskine" <alan.e...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:uRNlq.4149$7r4....@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...

> My deepest sympathies. I'll miss his sense of humour.
>
> Any idea how he died? I just hope it was painless and quick.

"To know just how he suffered would be dear;
To know if any human eyes were near
To whom he could intrust his wavering gaze,
Until it settled firm on Paradise.

To know if he was patient, part content,
Was dying as he thought, or different;
Was it a pleasant day to die,
And did the sunshine face his way?

What was his furthest mind, of home, or God,
Or what the distant say
At news that he ceased human nature
On such a day?

And wishes, had he any?
Just his sigh, accented,
Had been legible to me.
And was he confident until
Ill fluttered out in everlasting well?

And if he spoke, what name was best,
What first,
What one broke off with
At the drowsiest?

Was he afraid, or tranquil?
Might he know
How conscious consciousness could grow"




s

[Fevric J. Glandules]

Kulin Remailer wrote:

> It surprises me that you guys are this interested in someone you only
> know through Usenet. Have you guys ever met Pat in real life (IRL)?

Nope. One of the things I value about Usenet is that the words stand
alone and unfiltered by prejudice. In fact I actively avoid finding
out what posters look like.

But over time you tend to put together a picture. And it is quite
possible to warm towards someone that you have never met. Indeed
there are some individuals that I trust every bit as much as "real
life friends" despite never having done more than exchange emails.

Pat was 'one of the good guys'.

[Dr.Colon Oscopy]

As I recall Pat posted almost every day (or near to it) on one of the
space forums etc. Last post I found for him was 9/22 or 8/24 (could
be wrong) Wonder if he took sick and was recovering at
home.............
doc

[Matt Wiser]

Deepest sympathies, RIP and LOS, Pat. We'll see you on the other side.

[Peter Stickney]

On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:00:54 -0700, scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> Is this *our* Pat Flannery?
> http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/
>
> "Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at his
> home."
>
> Pithy.

Saddening, if true. (And I fear it is)
There are damned few like him.
And like him I did.
This world is a poorer place for losing him,
and a better place for having had him.
--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system

[jamesgarry]

Another lurker here - Pat posted some real gems and had an abiding
sense of humour that made s.s.h a joy to visit sometimes.

Let me share one that I've kept for (yikes!) a few years. Wish I had
kept more, there was, I dimly recall, one involving a piano, Kate
Bush, a soviet missile battery, and some unlikely physiology.

Thanks Pat

Subject:
Re: New Sputnik Book
Date:
Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:55:17 -0500
From:
"Patrick Flannery" <fla...@daktel.com>
Organization:
Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Newsgroups:
sci.space.history
References:
1 , 2 , 3 , 4

"David Sander" <sur...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message: > I think
Sputnik
would have been visible on the basis that its high
> specular reflectivity would have reflected enough sunshine to make it
> stand out - if it had been painted with low-specular white then I
> imagine it would have been essentially invisible to the naked eye.

This got me curious, so I went digging in my library- the book
"Vanguard"
(Martin Caidin, E.P.Dutton & Co.,1957) states that a twenty inch
sphere,
highly polished, will appear as a fifth or sixth magnitude star when
well
illuminated by the sun.Very hard to spot naked eye, but possible with
any
binoculars.
It also has a description of building the magnesium shell for the
Vanguard
satellites, and what the shell consists of, that has to be read to be
believed :
"Brookes and Perkins will manufacture the outside of the satellite to
the
astonishing tolerance of only four millionths of an inch."

(Is this the same Perkins that latter will manufacture other space
hardware
to astonishing, if incorrect, tolerances?)

" There are several metal layers that are placed over the magnesium-
on both
the inside and the outside of the shell. First the Brookes and Perkins
engineer's plate the magnesium, inside and out, with copper- then the
satellite shell is polished to a very high mirror finish.
Next, silver plating is added, and is also highly polished. Again the
satellite undergoes it's polishing. And finally, there is added a coat
of
pure gold plating, after which the shell is again polished to an
intense,
mirror like gloss. Then the satellite is delivered to the Navy."

(So, what could be worse than one service's military bureaucracy? How
about
TWO service's military bureaucracies....)

"But this is not yet the final step! In addition to these coatings the
outer
surface of the satellite is given four additional surface-finishing
treatments after the spheres are delivered to the government. The
shells are
sent by the Navy to the Research and Development Laboratories of the
Army
Corps of Engineers at Fort Belvoir, Virginia. Here the engineers apply
(over
the pure gold plating) a very thin adhesive layer of silicon monoxide;
next,
a very thin layer of highly reflective vaporized aluminum; and,
finally, a
thick layer of silicon monoxide."

Then, before launch, they polish the damn thing again.
Pat

[Damien Valentine]

My (apparently belated) condolences.

[Jonathan]

"Fevric J. Glandules" <f...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:j7aich$9q0$1...@dont-email.me...

> Kulin Remailer wrote:
>
>> It surprises me that you guys are this interested in someone you only
>> know through Usenet. Have you guys ever met Pat in real life (IRL)?
>
> Nope. One of the things I value about Usenet is that the words stand
> alone and unfiltered by prejudice. In fact I actively avoid finding
> out what posters look like.

I do the same thing, I avoid looking at pics or other details and
prefer to know people online only by the words. Quite often
I'm not all that sure who I'm replying to.

>
> But over time you tend to put together a picture. And it is quite
> possible to warm towards someone that you have never met. Indeed
> there are some individuals that I trust every bit as much as "real
> life friends" despite never having done more than exchange emails.
>
> Pat was 'one of the good guys'.

Second that!


s


>

[Alan Erskine]

On 13/10/2011 1:00 PM, scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Is this *our* Pat Flannery?
> http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/
>
> "Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at his
> home."
>
> Pithy.

Has anyone told OM?

[Alan Erskine]

Or Henry Spencer for that matter?

[Robert Clark]

On Oct 14, 11:48 pm, Peter Stickney <p_stick...@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:00:54 -0700, scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > Is this *our* Pat Flannery?
> >http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/
>
> > "Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at his
> > home."
>
> > Pithy.
>

Condolences to his family.

Bob Clark

[David Spain]

Alan Erskine wrote:
> Has anyone told OM?

I'm not sure the best way to reach him. Maybe Scott Lowther can pass it along
to him if he hasn't already.

> Or Henry Spencer for that matter?

I just sent Henry an email. I had posted this to the arocket list back on the
14th but it hasn't gone through yet.

Dave

[Marko K.]

"The Big DP" <Doug....@stanford.edu> wrote:

> I am mostly a lurker....but damn, this is very disconcerting.
>
> God Speed Pat!
>
> Doug

The same from my side. I'm lurking here for years from time to time. He
will remain unforgotten, even here in Europe!

--
Signature not found error. Please panic immediately.

[Mike DiCenso]

Ah hell what miserable news to get today, and to see it sullied by
Haller's whining blathering no less. I hope at least there was family
and friends to be there with him in his last days, and that his
passing was without any suffering.

Thus ends of an era of USENET.... So a fond farewell to you, Pat, and
enjoy a toast for us with the other great pioneers who've gone before
us like Goddard, Von Braun, Korolev, Komarov, Alan Shepard, the crews
of Apollo 1, Soyuz 11, Challenger, and Columbia, etc.
-Mike

[GordonD]

"Mike DiCenso" <mdicen...@q.com> wrote in message
news:b2464db4-6040-4906...@u13g2000prm.googlegroups.com...

If there is an afterlife I bet they throw one hell of a welcome party for
Pat...
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

"Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God."

[Alan Erskine]

On 17/10/2011 7:14 PM, GordonD wrote:
> "Mike DiCenso" <mdicen...@q.com> wrote in message
> news:b2464db4-6040-4906...@u13g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>> Ah hell what miserable news to get today, and to see it sullied by
>> Haller's whining blathering no less. I hope at least there was family
>> and friends to be there with him in his last days, and that his
>> passing was without any suffering.
>>
>> Thus ends of an era of USENET.... So a fond farewell to you, Pat, and
>> enjoy a toast for us with the other great pioneers who've gone before
>> us like Goddard, Von Braun, Korolev, Komarov, Alan Shepard, the crews
>> of Apollo 1, Soyuz 11, Challenger, and Columbia, etc.
>
>
> If there is an afterlife I bet they throw one hell of a welcome party
> for Pat...

Can you imagine the opening line he'll come up with?

[bob haller]

On Oct 17, 3:56 am, Mike DiCenso <mdicenso_...@q.com> wrote:
> Ah hell what miserable news to get today, and to see it sullied by

> Haller's whining blathering no less......

So whats to complain about my post?

having had a number of close calls, including one nearn death
experience:( I lost 13 pints of blood......

ANY DAY may be our day:( might as well have some fun while were here,
and do some good while were here. plus no one lives forever........

[Greg (Strider) Moore]

I've been trying to put something into words to describe my feelings of the
loss of Pat.

It's sad and unfortunate. He did bring a unique outlook on life that I
don't think will ever be matched.

I hope his family someday can see all these and realize the impact he had on
many of us.

But I think David's got it right.

LOS

And Pat I hope there are plenty of Venusian Fire-Woman on the other side.

--
Greg D. Moore President Green Mountain Software
http://www.greenms.com
Help honor our WWII Veterans: http://www.honorflight.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

[Damien Valentine]

Cripes, people. Can we refrain from insulting each other just this
once?

[Harold Groot]

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:14:12 -0700, Fred J. McCall
<fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote:

>bob haller <hal...@aol.com> wrote:
>>having had a number of close calls, including one nearn death
>>experience:( I lost 13 pints of blood......

>So you LOST three more pints of blood than the human body contains?
>Yeah, I'd call that 'near death', all right.
>Hint: The average healthy male human body contains less than 11 pints
>of blood.
>This may, however, explain the obvious brain damage....


Now, now. It is perfectly possible to "lose" that amount of blood in
total if you make it to the hospital still alive and they start
pumping lots of blood INTO you while you are still having blood flow
OUT of you. At any given moment of time you might not be down more
than, say, 4 pints - but after they finally stop the bleeding and give
you enough blood to get you back to "normal", you find out that they
transfused 13 pints of blood into you during the whole procedure.

[Bill Higgins]

On Oct 17, 11:04 am, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"

<moor...@ignorethisgreenms.com> wrote:

> I've been trying to put something into words to describe my feelings of the
> loss of Pat.

Me, too.

It was always good to see his name pop up in the thread. You knew you
were about to read something smart, or something funny, or, often,
both.

He was quick to share his enormous knowledge of aerospace history.
Often he would supply a piece of a puzzle.

I liked best his soaring flights of hilarious imagination.

Pat was astonishingly prolific. According to Google:

<http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?
enc_user=U79K5xIAAABD3RQyJRPhEUyHHO8PP2Ps8rhlH0Pnl47z4AZhN98BFg>

Between 2000 and 2011, he wrote 51855 postings from one identity. I'm
sure we could find many more if we dug into Google's database.
Millions of words.

I only knew him online, but after reading so many messages, I felt I
knew him fairly well. Now and then, we'd exchange e-mail about
obscure flying machines. I certainly would have enjoyed meeting him
in person. If that was not to be, I am very glad to have encountered
his writings.

My sympathy to Pat's family and friends.

Wherever he has gone, there must be laughter now.

--
Bill Higgins
Fermilab
hig...@fnal.gov

[Mike DiCenso]

On Oct 17, 3:05 am, Alan Erskine <alan.erski...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> On 17/10/2011 7:14 PM, GordonD wrote:
>

> > "Mike DiCenso" <mdicenso_...@q.com> wrote in message

I think Pat will be too busy with those Venusian Fire Maidens they've
got lined up for him to come up with anything. ;-D
-Mike

[Andrew Pettifer]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:54:54 +0000 (UTC), Marko K.
<notfo...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
> > I am mostly a lurker....but damn, this is very disconcerting.

Hey, yet another lurker here, checking in from Australia, I also
enjoyed Pats posts, he will
Certainly be missed.

Condolences to all who knew him.

Andrew

[bob haller]

On Oct 17, 11:58 pm, Fred J. McCall <fjmcc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ques...@infionline.net (Harold Groot) wrote:
> >On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:14:12 -0700, Fred J. McCall

> ><fjmcc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> He said he LOST that much.  In English, that means he was DOWN that
> much.
>
> Hell, if they give you a slow leak and pump it in as it leaks out,
> you're nowhere near death but you could 'lose' 100 gallons of blood.
>
> That's not what most sensible people mean when they talk about how
> much blood someone lost.
>
> --
> "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
>  territory."
>                                       --G. Behn- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I bled out my butt like a garden hose, had a lifeflight helicopter
ride, and very nearly died at 28...... they pushed blood... and gave
me many units of blood platets. to aid clotting the blood gushed out
between my legs, dripping on the floor.....

dr young who cared for me he was really glad i survived, its tough on
the staff when they lose people so young.....

i am 54 its hard to believe how fast that time went by... i spent many
days in the trauma unit........

I believe I got a look at heaven my BP tanked.....

this has helped when family and friends have died. what i saw was so
beautiful i wanted to go back there.....

i believe they are in a better place

[bob haller]

> i believe they are in a better place- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

BTW I have divertlocsiis however thats spelled

[Jeff Findley]

In article <4555bdad-daff-4fb0-800c-8c0448401a30
@h5g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>, hal...@aol.com says...

While this is a serious disease, I can't help but think T.M.I.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. ;) "
- tinker

[Alan Erskine]

Purple-haired ladies (U.F.O. television series) - Pat always loved them.

[GordonD]

"Alan Erskine" <alan.e...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:8qfnq.4394$NR2....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...

Who can blame him?

http://www.moviemarket.com/Photos/P200550_C84597.html

[Alan Erskine]

On 19/10/2011 2:58 AM, GordonD wrote:
> "Alan Erskine" <alan.e...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:8qfnq.4394$NR2....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
>> On 18/10/2011 2:38 PM, Mike DiCenso wrote:
>>> On Oct 17, 3:05 am, Alan Erskine<alan.erski...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> for Pat...
>>>>
>>>> Can you imagine the opening line he'll come up with?
>>>
>>> I think Pat will be too busy with those Venusian Fire Maidens they've
>>> got lined up for him to come up with anything. ;-D
>>> -Mike
>>
>> Purple-haired ladies (U.F.O. television series) - Pat always loved them.
>
>
> Who can blame him?
>
> http://www.moviemarket.com/Photos/P200550_C84597.html

ohhhhh.... <heart goes 'flutter'...> She was my favourite.

[Alan Erskine]

Guys, be respectul of Pat, please.

[Bruce D. Scott]

Alan Erskine (alan.e...@bigpond.com) wrote:

Many people who used to read the group more regularly will be saddened
to hear of this... anyone who has read him remembers warmly. He did
mention his situation in past years even in the middle of characteristic
mirth. Always keep it light and good luck to him in the next life.

--
ciao,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/

[Ken S. Tucker]

From a stomach injury I lost ~ 8 #'s of blood, 4-5 I puked into
bags for weighing, and est. 3-4#'s down the pooper, was in and
out of consciousness, but could walk if I tried.
The white light becomes prominent, probably due to lack of BP.
The lack of BP gives one a false feeling of 'well being', I suppose
that would make a 'near death' experience enlightening.
IIRC a unit of blood is a pint and weighs about 1#.

The medics topped me up with 6 units and a few days rest in
ICU.
That occurred in Vernon BC, very well treated.
Ken

[Clive Davenhall]

19/10/11.

> Is this *our* Pat Flannery?
> http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/
>
> "Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011,
> at his home."

This is very sad news indeed.

I've lurked here for years, and always looked out for Pat's posts:
knowledgeable on all sorts of obscure subjects; wonderful, inspired
flights of imagination and extremely funny. We never even exchanged
e-mail, let alone met, but I feel as though I've lost a friend.

A great loss. He will be much missed.

At least he's with the angels now (albeit purple-haired, silver-
suited ones)[1].


Clive.


[1] Though he may well have pointed out that, no, the Angels wore
white pressure suits not silver space suits and were 'Captain
Scarlet' not 'UFO' (except he'd have been wittier about it).

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clive Davenhall.

[Robert Clark]

I haven't seen it on Arocket as of Oct. 23rd. Perhaps you could
resend it.

Bob Clark

[Chris Jones]

I do recall seeing it on AR over a week ago.

[David Spain]

Chris Jones wrote:
> Robert Clark <rgrego...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Oct 16, 8:52 am, David Spain <nos...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>> I just sent Henry an email. I had posted this to the arocket list back on the
>>> 14th but it hasn't gone through yet.
>>>

>> I haven't seen it on Arocket as of Oct. 23rd. Perhaps you could
>> resend it.
>
> I do recall seeing it on AR over a week ago.

Henry not only had seen it, he sent a copy back to me.

I suspect perhaps Arocket does not send back a copy to the originator?
That plus I did not cc myself plus if nobody responds to the email, then I
would not have seen it at all even though I posted it.

Dave

[Rhonda Lea Kirk Fries]

scottl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Is this *our* Pat Flannery?
> http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/
>
> "Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at his
> home."
>

> Pithy.

I really wish I hadn't seen this post, even though it's not much of a
surprise. He'd been unwell for some time, and I was always a bit amazed
at his ability to remain cheerful through it all.

So long, Pat. I will miss you.

[B0b Mosley]

On Oct 18, 1:09 am, Andrew Pettifer <f...@fakeemail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:54:54 +0000 (UTC), Marko K.
>

> <notform...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
> > > I am mostly a lurker....but damn, this is very disconcerting.
>
> Hey, yet another lurker here, checking in from Australia, I also
> enjoyed Pats posts, he will
> Certainly be missed.
>
> Condolences to all who knew him.
>
> Andrew

...Kids, is this 100% confirmed? Remember, it was just the other day
half of you thought *I* was dead.

[Peter Stickney]

Bob,
Nothing absolutely solid, but a lot of circumstantial evidence.
I don't think there were many Patrick Flannerys in his town.
Although I keep hoping that he'll pop up with a tale of
being abducted by a Giant Squid and ending up on an island
with Milla Jovovich.

Y'all be careful now, y'hear?

--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system

[Brian Thorn]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:54:18 -0700 (PDT), B0b Mosley
<b0bmo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>...Kids, is this 100% confirmed? Remember, it was just the other day
>half of you thought *I* was dead.

We don't know, but each passing day suggests it was. The local paper
only printed a death notice, no obituary and the funeral home
identified in the death notice has no mention of Pat on its website.
I checked other funeral homes in the area and also came up empty.
Either this Pat Flannery had a very simple funeral, or his funeral
arrangements were handled elsewhere. I guess we'll just have to wait
and see.

Brian

[Alan Erskine]

HOLY SHIT! Where the fuck have you been??!!

Is there any way to confirm Pat's death? Maybe his brother?

[bob haller]

> Is there any way to confirm Pat's death?  Maybe his brother?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

anyone call the funeral home?

[Alan Erskine]

On 27/10/2011 6:57 AM, bob haller wrote:

>
> anyone call the funeral home?

That's a good point.

[bob haller]

> > anyone call the funeral home?
>
> That's a good point.

at least they could provide family contact info and send them this
discussion.......

truly very sad....

[Alan Erskine]

It was said earlier in the thread that Pat only had a brother.
Hopefully, they information will be passed on to him.

[David Lesher]

"Val Kraut" <mar...@optonline.net> writes:

>> It surprises me that you guys are this interested in someone you only
>> know through Usenet. Have you guys ever met Pat in real life (IRL)?
>>
>> If it *is* Pat than he passed away relatively young at just 56. He
>> posted here only a few days ago (September 24th).

>This has happened on other groups - there's someone who consistently makes
>intertesting posts - and you just get to expect them each day when you go
>in - in fact you go in each day and look for his posts - and suddenly they

Larry Lippman..

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[David Spain]

I did the 2nd week in October. See my post dated Oct. 13 @ 10:01 am

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.space.history/browse_thread/thread/4b371ce7fa30b71c#

There were no funeral arrangements at the time I called. Considering the fact
that it was 10 days after the date of death reported in the on-line newspaper
obit I presume there wasn't one.

I requested my contact info be passed to his surviving brother. I have not
heard from him either.

Pat's email account is no longer working.

Dave

[Andre Lieven]

On Oct 26, 10:38 am, Brian Thorn <bthor...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:54:18 -0700 (PDT), B0b Mosley
>

> <b0bmosl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >...Kids, is this 100% confirmed? Remember, it was just the other day
> >half of you thought *I* was dead.
>
> We don't know, but each passing day suggests it was. The local paper
> only printed a death notice, no obituary and the funeral home
> identified in the death notice has no mention of Pat on its website.
> I checked other funeral homes in the area and also came up empty.
> Either this Pat Flannery had a very simple funeral, or his funeral
> arrangements were handled elsewhere. I guess we'll just have to wait
> and see.

Damn, this is awful news. I'd been away from Usenet for quite some
time, and coming in, I saw this.

Pat was always a pleasure to read, and over the years, one got a
feeling about the kind of guy he was. A happy chap, with a wonderful
sense of humour and wonder. I'm another guy who never got to meet
him in RL, which is a loss.

Sigh.

Andre

[David Spain]

Just to clarify, I called the funeral home on October 13th and they told me
that Pat's body had been cremated, but there had been no funeral arrangements
at that time. Since this was almost 2 weeks since the reported date of death
in the on-line death notice it is not clear there ever was a funeral.

The only surviving family is a brother whom I asked the funeral home to pass
along both my condolences and my email contact. I have not heard back from
him. Pat's email address is no longer working. The white pages telephone
number listed on-line has been disconnected.

There have been no postings from Pat since September 23-24. The reported date
of death was October 3rd.

The town paper that the on-line death notice was published, the Jamestown Sun
of Jamestown, ND matches the same town as was reported by Pat himself as being
his hometown (see earlier links on this thread).

There are only two Flannery's listed in the white pages for Jamestown ND and
only one Patrick.

Dave

[Greg (Strider) Moore]

"David Spain" wrote in message
news:ItmdnXEX_PUuyUTT...@giganews.com...

>
>Just to clarify, I called the funeral home on October 13th and they told me
>that Pat's body had been cremated, but there had been no funeral
>arrangements at that time. Since this was almost 2 weeks since the reported
>date of death in the on-line death notice it is not clear there ever was a
>funeral.
>

Hmm, strikes me the proper way to remember Pat is if no one claims his ashes
to claim them and get some into orbit.

>

--
Greg D. Moore President Green Mountain Software
http://www.greenms.com
Help honor our WWII Veterans: http://www.honorflight.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

[Ken S. Tucker]

On Dec 6, 5:46 pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"

<moor...@ignorethisgreenms.com> wrote:
> "David Spain" wrote in message
>
> news:ItmdnXEX_PUuyUTT...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
> >Just to clarify, I called the funeral home on October 13th and they told me
> >that Pat's body had been cremated, but there had been no funeral
> >arrangements at that time. Since this was almost 2 weeks since the reported
> >date of death in the on-line death notice it is not clear there ever was a
> >funeral.
>
> Hmm, strikes me the proper way to remember Pat is if no one claims his ashes
> to claim them and get some into orbit.

Yes, how much would that cost?
(It's the xmas season)
Ken

[scottl...@ix.netcom.com]

On Dec 8, 9:00 am, "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote:
> > Hmm, strikes me the proper way to remember Pat is if no one claims his ashes
> > to claim them and get some into orbit.
>
> Yes, how much would that cost?

Nothing, if done properly. The proper way to honor Pat: *steal* his
ashes. Mix some of them in with some paint. Load the mix into
paintballs. Sneak into a launch facility and nail the upper stage of
some booster preparing to launch a comsat into GEO. Prefarably a
comstat scheduled to broadcast bad made-for-SyFy channel movies
featuring scantily clad talentless actresses.

It's what he would've wanted.

[bob haller]

On Dec 8, 10:35 pm, "scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com"

add pats name to a space probe of some type as a remberence.

nasa has offered that in the past

[Robert Clark]

I like that suggestion.
To confirm it was him, perhaps someone could contact that local
newspaper and ask for the person who does the obits. There may have
more knowledge about him.
According to wikipedia Jamestown, ND is only a town of 15,000 people.
Someone at the news paper may have known him personally.

Bob Clark

[Doc Smartass]

"scottl...@ix.netcom.com" <scottl...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:58a8e7b2-b322-4111...@p2g2000prl.googlegroups.com:

> Is this *our* Pat Flannery?
> http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/
>
> "Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at his
> home."
>
> Pithy.

Haven't lurked here in awhile, kind of late in offering condolences...but
Pat always seemed like a good guy.

Gonna miss the "Komerade!" posts.

[Andre Lieven]

On Dec 22 2011, 3:33 am, Doc Smartass <FortbrickG...@yahoobrick.com>
wrote:
> "scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com" <scottlowt...@ix.netcom.com> wrote innews:

> 58a8e7b2-b322-4111...@p2g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Is this *our* Pat Flannery?
> >http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/
>
> > "Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at his
> > home."
>
> > Pithy.
>
> Haven't lurked here in awhile, kind of late in offering condolences...but
> Pat always seemed like a good guy.
>
> Gonna miss the "Komerade!" posts.

FWIW, I was cleaning up my e-mail folders, and I found two mails from
Pat, that I did reply to, dated the 23rd of September. So, what took
him
down must have happened fairly quickly.

Sigh.

Andre

[Dale Carlson]

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 12:39:41 -0800 (PST), Andre Lieven

>FWIW, I was cleaning up my e-mail folders, and I found two mails from
>Pat, that I did reply to, dated the 23rd of September. So, what took
>him down must have happened fairly quickly.
>
>Sigh.

I miss Pat a lot. I hope his family knows how many people
enjoyed sharing the planet with him.

Dale

[Jochem Huhmann]

"scottl...@ix.netcom.com" <scottl...@ix.netcom.com> writes:

> Is this *our* Pat Flannery?
> http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/obituary/id/145730/
>
> "Patrick C. Flannery, 54, Jamestown, died Monday, Oct. 3, 2011, at his
> home."
>
> Pithy.

Oh my!

I have been going away and coming back to these groups over and over and
often enough it was Pat who drew me back. In fact I came back right now
because I needed a fix of good-humoured spaceflight-related wisdom and
reading something astute about that fscking Phobos probe that made it just
to the Pacific Ocean. Finding out that Pat has launched to the Final
Mission really throws me off.

How unfair is this? Pat could have had happily done what he did for
decades to come, he didn't do no harm to noone and was just someone who
made the world a nicer, more interesting, less boring, more
knowledgeable and funnier place to be in. He was the exact opposite to
all the nutcases and cooks and trolls that seem to take over these
groups more and more.

I'm really, really sad now.

Godspeed, Pat!


Jochem

--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[David Spain]

Jochem Huhmann wrote:
> Oh my!

Pat would have appreciated the kind words.

I think we all feel pretty much the same as you.
Pat will be / *is* sorely missed.

As a strong provider of signal vs noise, I urge you to continue to return from
time to time!

Dave

[Alan Erskine]

Likewise

[Tony Lance]

Hi there,
The only email I got from Pat was a big picture of a plane, with
people on
the wings. Round the edges were the years it would take to fly to the
planets at 120mph. I said I could not use it for Big Bertha, but the
thought
that came to mind was all the ftl nay sayers queuing up to get there
at that
speed. I can remember that picture and Pat to this day. RIP Big man.
Thank you,
Tony Lance
tony...@bigberthathing.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban, sci.space.policy
From: Pat Flannery <flan...@daktel.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:24:08 -0500
Local: Wed, Apr 14 2004 2:24 am
Subject: Re: Big Bertha Thing blogs

Tony Lance wrote:
>Detail from frontspiece painting showing,
>so called pin-wheel rickshaw

>Caption;-
>A Chinese Street

>From the book
>The World and Its People
>Asia With Special Reference to British Possessions
>Published by Thomas Nelson and Sons 1903

Oh...God...no....we have the SAME BOOK! Y-E-E-A-A-A-H! =-O

Pat

[Brad Guth]

On Jan 17, 12:36 pm, Tony Lance <tonyla...@bigberthathing.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
> The only email I got from Pat was a big picture of a plane, with
> people on
> the wings. Round the edges were the years it would take to fly to the
> planets at 120mph. I said I could not use it for Big Bertha, but the
> thought
> that came to mind was all the ftl nay sayers queuing up to get there
> at that
> speed. I can remember that picture and Pat to this day. RIP Big man.
> Thank you,
> Tony Lance

> tonyla...@bigberthathing.com

> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban, sci.space.policy
> From: Pat Flannery <flan...@daktel.com>
> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:24:08 -0500
> Local: Wed, Apr 14 2004 2:24 am
> Subject: Re: Big Bertha Thing blogs
>
> Tony Lance wrote:
>
>  >Detail from frontspiece painting showing,
>  >so called pin-wheel rickshaw
>
> >Caption;-
>
>  >A Chinese Street
>
> >From the book
>
>  >The World and Its People
>  >Asia With Special Reference to British Possessions
>  >Published by Thomas Nelson and Sons 1903
>
> Oh...God...no....we have the SAME BOOK! Y-E-E-A-A-A-H! =-O
>
> Pat

Most Usenet/newsgroup contributors use phony/bogus names, as I'm
certain was the case with Pat.

Who was Pat, and what exactly did he/she die from?

[Tony Lance]

Hi Brad,
This proves who I am and I vouch for Pat.

Thank you,
Tony Lance
tony...@bigberthathing.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tony Lance <jude...@bigberthathing.co.uk>
Date: Jan 25 2007, 2:17 pm
Subject: Big Bertha Thing tactics
To: sci.chem
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

24 February 1998 18:22:42
OUSA Astronomy Item
From:   Frank Hollis
Subject:        Re(2): Big Bertha Thing positron
To:     OUSA Astronomy Caroline Walcot,oufcnt2.open.ac.uk writes:

I don't see what pics of a positron particle (??) have to do with a
conference on
Astronomy, which is basically stargazing and astrophysics and mainly
optics.

Surely all this Big Bertha stuff should be diverted to a physics
conference such as S271?

cheers

Caroline

Or even better, the conference that was specifically set up for
exactly this material,
moderated by Spammer in Chief- Tony Lance.

                Frank
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: sci.space.history
From: Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:50:17 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Jan 19 2012 7:50 pm
Subject: Re: RIP Pat Flannery?

[Tony Lance]

In from the Cold
by Tony Lance

I met a man along the way.
Who he was he did not say.
I'll probably meet him tomorrow too.
Even then, he will be known to few.
Perhaps he has not met himself.
And knows even less, being on the shelf.
One day he might see his way.
With eyes that see and ears that sway.
When he comes this way again.
We'll not see his like, nor know his pain.
Welcome him along the way.
Say a kind word, in parting worlds away.
Flatter to deceive and call him kindly.
Wave fond farewell, sightless, blindly.

[Ken S. Tucker]

Pat posted to me, some time ago, he suffered an
afflixtion some 30 years ago. Wasn't sure to ask for
details or let it slide, I went light, not knowing
netiquette and or really knowing Pat, guess I should
have enquired more.
Maybe he needed an ear vs Ken don't pry.
Ken

[David Spain]

Brad Guth wrote:
>
> Most Usenet/newsgroup contributors use phony/bogus names, as I'm
> certain was the case with Pat.
>

I'm not. But I'll admit I'll never know for sure. It would have been so easy
to verify. Pat didn't hide himself, he had a white pages listing.

> Who was Pat, and what exactly did he/she die from?

That will be very difficult for anyone other than family or a life insurance
company to find out on-line:

http://www.ndhealth.gov/vital/death.htm

There are social engineering ways you can probably use to find out, but I
prefer to respect his family's privacy.

Dave

[Alan Erskine]

LOL! That shows how paranoid Guthnut really is!

[Jeff Findley]

In article <YO6Tq.2259$%E2....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>,
alan.e...@bigpond.com says...

There are those of us who have always posted under our real names. Pat
posted using his real name.

Also, it was no secret that Pat had some severe health problems. I'm
sure there are a few readers here who are simply too clueless to have
noticed Pat's postings on the subject of his health. Obviously Guthball
is one of them.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. ;) "
- tinker

[Dr.Colon Oscopy]

How true.............Doc