It's Time For A WAKE UP CALL!
LadyLollipop
searching, this is from previous posts, some do not have the URL's.
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/00n_1665/00N-1665-EC-07.html
http://www.yourhealthbase.com/amalgams.html
Trigeminal neuralgia linked to amalgam fillings
JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA. Dr. William Cheshire, a physician at the Mayo Clinic,
reports on a case where a woman's trigeminal neuralgia (tic douloureux) was
traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent
gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced
intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery". The
jolts in turn resulted in excruciating pain in the trigeminal nerve.
Replacing
the amalgam filling with a composite resolved the problem. Dr. Cheshire
points
out that dissimilar metals in contact with saliva can form a galvanic cell
which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of
potential. He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia
describe
their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his patient's
neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the
amalgam filling and the gold crown.
Cheshire, William P., Jr. The shocking tooth about trigeminal neuralgia. New
England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 342, June 29, 2000, p. 2003
(correspondence)
Ortendahl TW, Hogstedt P & Holland RP. Mercury vapor release from
dental amalgam in vitro caused by magnetic fields generated by CRT's
and electrical cutting procedures. Swed Dent J 1991 p 31 Abstract 22
ABSTRACT: "People working in front of a cathode-ray tube screen (CRT)
and who report they are negatively affected, sometimes complain about
symptoms often related to "Oral galvanism". Another group of workers,
occupationally exposed to magnetic fields, are divers, welding and
cutting electrically under water. It has been repoerted (Ortendahl et.
al. J. Undersea Biomed Res 1988;15:443-456) that the magnetic field
flux density intraoraly at a certain current and with a specific
distance relation between the oral cavity and the electric cord was
1.12 mT with a specific frequency spectra. Exposure of amalgam
specimens to a magnetic field with 1.15 mT (50 Hz) caused and chemical
changes on the surfaces of the dental amalgams. Therefore, the aim of
the study was to analyze if work in front of a CRT-screen would have
any influence on the mercury vapor release from dental amalgam. The
aim was also to analyze if a magnetic field with a complex frequency
spectra and a flux density of 1.15 mT would influence the mercury
vapor release. Materials and Methods: 5 CRT-screens were selected as
sources for the magnetic field exposure. The criterias for the
selection of screens were: 1 occurring frequently in swedish officies,
2. compensated and uncompensated screens with respect to the magnetic
fields. From three types of dental amalgams, representative to swedish
dentistry, cylindrical amalgam specimens were prepared and were
immersed in artificial saliva in an electrolytic cell. The
electrolytic cells were located exactly in front of the CRT-screens
with a distance amalgam - CRT-screen of 50 cm during 6 hours. On a
specific electrolytic cell, coils were adapted and supplied with a
current to the electrical cutting situation. The created field had a
complex frequency spectra in order to create a more realistic
simulation of the in vivo situation than the earlier used 50 Hz field.
The mercury vapor release (Hg0) was registered continously and were
determined by a gold-foil mercury vapor analyzer (Jerome 411). As
control served amalgam specimens, not exposed to a magnetic field but
immersed in the artificial saliva and a reference group which were not
exposed to either the magnetic fields or artificial saliva.
Results and Conclusion: 2 of the CRT-screens significantly increased the
mercury vapor release from all three types of amalgam. One of these
two screens were compensated and one were uncompensated. The magnetic
fields which were supposed to simulate the electrical cutting
situation did not cause any increased mercury vapor release. The study was
supported by The Swedish Work Environmental fund."
Newsgroups: alt.health.dental-amalgam, sci.physics.electromag,
sci.med.dentistry
From: Jim Barron <jdbar...@cphl.mindspring.com> - Find messages by
this author
Date: 1997/09/22
Subject: Re: Amalgam in EM field
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Harry H Conover wrote:
> p...@tcp.co.uk wrote:
> :
> : Wrong. In a word, yes... its *possible*.....
> But not probable...
> :
> : Ortendahl TW, Hogstedt P & Holland RP. Mercury vapor release from
> : dental amalgam in vitro caused by magnetic fields generated by CRT's
> : and electrical cutting procedures. Swed Dent J 1991 p 31 Abstract 22
> :
> : ABSTRACT: "People working in front of a cathode-ray tube screen (CRT)
> : and who report they are negatively affected, sometimes complain about
> : symptoms often related to "Oral galvanism". Another group of workers,
> : occupationally exposed to magnetic fields, are divers, welding and
> : cutting electrically under water.
> Doesn't it seem strange that this phenomenon has not been reported or
> observed by those working around really strong fields? Things like
> power distribution substantion, nuclear particle accelerators, or
> similar situations in comparison to which exposure to the stray
> magnetic fields from CRT deflection yokes as the like would be...ah...
> more or less insignificant?
Actually it doesn't seem strange at all: Since no one has apparently
scientificly studied this effect, your idea that the effect should be
linearly related to the strength of the EMF field is ONLY a
**conjecture**. Many biological effects are NOT linear and, without
scientific experiments or good theoretical basis for believeing that the
effect IS linear (or at least steadily increasing) the "jury is still
out". I *DO* know that I DO have currents in my teeth (measured at
up to 400 mV) and that they are very strongly affected by magnetic
fields (on of the reasons I have been so absent from this group is that
I have been unable to sit in front of my CRT monitor for more than a
very short period without severe problems from the currents in my teeth
(which problems markedly reduced each time a quadrant of fillings was
removed - only one left to go!)
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> : It has been repoerted (Ortendahl et.
> : al. J. Undersea Biomed Res 1988;15:443-456) that the magnetic field
> : flux density intraoraly at a certain current and with a specific
> : distance relation between the oral cavity and the electric cord was
> : 1.12 mT with a specific frequency spectra.
> [snip]
> It's nice to see that research is being done. Since I don't have any
> access to this paper [even at the MIT library], would it be possible
> for your to post that portion of this paper addressing experimental
> error analysis (noise bars) and, reflecting the content of that error
> analysis, the statistical significance of this work?
> Pardon me for being a skeptic, but the thought does occur that the
> magnetic field resulting from a computer monitor (unless it is one
> of incredibly poor design) is many orders of magnetude less than
> the ambient electromagnetic field characteristics of the environment
> in which that computer monitor is typically located. This is precisely
> why monitor design focuses on protecting the monitor functioning from
> the effects of the environment, and not the converse.
This is grossly oversimplistic. EMFs have many important properties
OTHER than just strength (frequency, variable or constant, etc.) any of
which could possibly be just as, or even more, important than mere
strength.
> This would, of course, not be the case if you were running your computer
> from a DC battery pack on an isolated mountain peak in the Andes, in which
> case the computer monitor just might be the prime contributor to the EM
> environment.
Interestingly enough I can work at my PORTABLE computer (which has a
liquid crystal display, hence no CRT tube (and no variable EMF)) for
many hours a day for days on end with NO problems whatsoever. But a few
hours in front of a CRT tube would be devestating (FORGET about
sleeping!)
Short of this somewhat idealistic situation, ED radiation
> from the computer monitor is totally lost in the backgound noise (at
> least from galvanic action considerations.)
If this is SO (and my experience indicates that you are just GUESSING
(incorrectly!) on this one) perhaps you could explain why the hairs on
the back of my hand stick straigt out when they get near my monitor?
And they DON'T in the same area when the monitor is off?
> Sorry, I just don't buy it!
You have, or course, a right to your OPINION. But an opinion with
NOTHING to back it up means little.
If you believe your computer monitor is the
> source of your health problems, the problem is a personal, internal one,
> and not something to be blamed on technology.
Perhaps "I think" might be more appropriate than "is"?
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> Repreating my previous advice: If you suffer from problems like this,
> consider a program that exposes you to actual pain or psychological
> stress. Probably 'Outward Bound' is the best, but in a pinch you
> could try white water rafting, sky diving, bungi jumping, or any other
> activity that subjects you to real jeapardy.
> It's amazing how insignificant your computer monitor will become after
> a few real-life stressful experiences. After all, it worked for Teddy
> Roosevelt, didn't it?
> Harry C.
> p.s., I received several 'hate mail' articles after my past post. I
> wonder how many more this one will attract? Realize, if I
> considered what I am posting to be bad advice, I truly wouldn't
> have posted it. It's simply that some people do need a 'wakeup
> call.'
I would suggest that the reason you receive what you perceive as "hate
mail" is that 1) you seem to express an (apparently) unjustified
certainty on things about which you give no sound basis for your
*opinion* AND 2) you, in effect, "blame the victim" for his/her
problem. (Easy to do when it's not YOUR problem!) Such dogmatic
attributions of problems to "psychogenic" origins (all too common in
medicine and almost invariably WRONG (vitrually every medical problem
was attributed to "psycogenic" origins at some point (before it was
eventually understood)). Some amount of reactive animosity is, IMHO
understandable, although not the most effective or desireable reaction.
IME (in my experience), angry replies are usually a result of the WAY
and MANNER in which ideas were expressed (inappropriate certainty,
disparaging other's valid observations, etc.) rather than to the ideas
themselves.
Also consider that, in the case of amalgam, those who, for MANY good
reasons, feel that they have been systematically poisioned by a
profession that has studiously avoided adequately investigating the
amalgam safety issue for well over a century, have a good deal of
understandable resentment, distrust and anger. Sometimes we forget
that a lot of dentists have been "victimized" with the same hogwash that
has been fed to patients. (But we DO feel that they were a lot more
gullible than is really justifiable.)
(another poster wrote)
Watch the tooth voltage readings. Most millivolt meters will measure
voltages when the probes are put in the mouth. Saliva is a good
electrolyte and when combined with fillings and meter probes forms a
very effective battery.
Newsgroups: alt.health.dental-amalgam, sci.physics.electromag,
sci.med.dentistry
From: micromercur...@geocities.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 1997/09/22
Subject: Re: Amalgam in EM field
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Harry H Conover wrote:
> Harry C.
> p.s., I received several 'hate mail' articles after my past post. I
> wonder how many more this one will attract? Realize, if I
> considered what I am posting to be bad advice, I truly wouldn't
> have posted it. It's simply that some people do need a 'wakeup
> call.'
Please do a search there is more on CRT its a matter of the frequency
given off, there was only one computer that did not produce this effect
and it was an IBM model.
Below the symptoms are no different its just a matter of time, if only
we could all wake up.
Regards
micromercurial
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/2888/
Scientist Karen Wetterhan 1949 - 1997
Mercury Changed Scientist's Life
It was just a drop of liquid, just a tiny glistening
drop. It glided over
her glove like a jewel.
Scientist Karen Wetterhan knew the risks: The bad stuff
kills if you
get too close.
She took all the precautions working with mercury in her
Dartmouth
College lab -- wearing protective gloves and eye
goggles, working
under a ventilated hood that sucks up chemical fumes.
So on that sunny day in August, when she accidentally
spilled a
drop, she didn't think anything of it. She washed her
hands,
cleaned her instruments and went home.
It was just a drop of liquid, just a tiny glistening
drop.
At first, friends thought she had caught a stomach bug
on her trip to
Malaysia. It wasn't until she started bumping into doors
that her
husband, Leon Webb, began to worry. Karen, always so
focused,
always so sure of her next step, was suddenly falling
down as if she
were drunk.
In 15 years together, she had never been sick, never
stopped
working, never complained. Leon was stunned when she
called for
a ride home from work.
Over lunch a few days later, Karen confided to her best
friend,
Cathy Johnson, that she hadn't felt right for some time.
Words
seemed to be getting stuck in her throat. Her hands
tingled. It felt
like her whole body was moving in slow motion.
"Karen," Johnson said as she drove her back to the
college, "we've
got to get you to the hospital."
"After work," Karen promised, walking unsteadily into
the Burke
chemistry building for the last time.
That night, Leon drove her to the emergency room. It was
Monday,
Jan. 20, 1997, five months since she had spilled the
drop in the lab.
Just a single drop of liquid. Yet somehow it had
penetrated her skin.
By the weekend, Karen couldn't walk, her speech was
slurred and
her hands trembled. Leon paced the house. "Virus" seemed
an
awfully vague diagnosis for symptoms that were getting
worse
every day.
"It's mercury poisoning," Dr. David Nierenberg said. "We
have to
start treatment immediately."
Leon hung up with relief. At last, they understood the
problem. Now
maybe they could fix it.
It seemed impossible to believe that anything could be
wrong with
Karen Wetterhahn, one of those quietly impressive
individuals
whose lives seemed charmed from the start.
Serious and hardworking, she excelled at everything she
turned to
-- science or sailing or skiing. She grew up near Lake
Champlain in
upstate New York in a family so close that when she and
her only
sister became mothers, they named their daughters after
each
other: Charlotte and Karen.
Karen was always the brilliant one of the family, the
one who would
do great things. And she did, becoming the first woman
chemistry
professor at Dartmouth, running a world-renowned
laboratory on
chromium research, devoting herself to her work.
It was important work, the kind that could lead to cures
for cancer
and AIDS. Karen thrived on it. She loved nothing more
than
experimenting with a chemical, figuring out its bad side
and how it
breaks down living things.
In the often cutthroat world of scientific research and
ideas, where
work is judged in academic journals and egos are as
enormous as
intellects, Karen stood out. Other professors would send
their
students to her office just to meet her. Talk to Karen,
they would say.
See how you can balance the demands of work and life and
still be
on top of your field.
The only place on Earth more precious than her lab was
the dark
cedar house that Leon, a mason, had built with his own
hands.
Home was Karen's haven, her retreat from the rarefied
halls of Ivy
League academia.
Here, in the pretty village of Lyme, at the top of a
hill at the end of a
dirt road, she would listen to rock music -- heavy metal
was her
favorite -- and tend her garden.
Here, science came second to 12-year-old Charlotte's
baby rabbits,
14-year-old Ashley's mountain bikes, Todd the goat and
Dillon the
pony.
At home, she would throw great neighborhood parties by
the pool,
or gather up the family and drag them off to the golf
course, or the
tennis court, or Ashley's hockey game.
"We never knew she was a world-famous scientist," one
neighbor
said afterward. "She was just Char and Ashley's mom."
Mercury poisoning.
Karen beamed when she heard the news. Finally, something
she
understood. Something she could explain. They would feed
her fat
white nasty-tasting pills that would flush the poison
out of her
system.
Science would cure her, she told her husband, giddy with
excitement as she sat in bed surrounded by her children
and her
notes.
"Karen was happy, so I was happy," Leon says now. "We
just didn't
know."
How could they have known? Back in January, virtually
nothing was
known about the extraordinary dangers of
dimethylmercury, the rare
man-made compound Karen had spilled. Scientists didn't
know it
could seep through a latex glove like a drop of water
through a
Kleenex. Doctors didn't know it could break down the
body over the
course of a few months, slowly, insidiously,
irreversibly.
Above all, no one knew how to stop its deadly progress,
as it cut off
her hearing, her speech, her vision, reducing her body
to a withered
shell.
Today, because of Karen, the world knows so much more.
Quicksilver, as mercury is called, has long played a
sinister game of
seduction with science. One of the world's oldest
metals, it comes in
various forms -- some that heal, some that kill.
Dimethlymercury, a
colorless liquid that looks like water but is three
times heavier, is far
more toxic than other forms -- the kind used in
thermometers and
batteries and medicine. It's made purely for research
and is rarely
used.
Aug. 14, 1996. Just one shimmering drop. Now, six months
later,
Karen's body was riddled with it.
Karen was the one who remembered the spill. It nagged
away at
her in the hospital as she underwent CT scans and spinal
taps and
tests for everything except chemical poisoning.
But I work with mercury, she said. Shouldn't I be tested
for the bad
stuff?
The results plagued the doctors even more: Why had it
taken so
long for the symptoms to show? What kind of brain damage
had
already occurred? Had anyone else been exposed? Was she
contagious?
And the question that still stings Leon's heart, the one
that still
seems almost obscene: "Does your wife have any enemies?"
"Enemies!" he whispers incredulously through tears.
"Karen didn't
have enemies. Everyone loved her."
She was easy to love, this tall athletic woman with the
deep
infectious laugh. Comfortable to talk to. Always there
for students,
colleagues and friends.
And for Leon.
In some ways, they seemed an unlikely match: Leon, 40,
the son of
a Vermont dairy farmer who decided early on that masonry
was
more profitable than milking cows, and Karen, 48, the
daughter of a
chemist, the brilliant teacher and scholar. They had an
easy comfort
with each other. She would watch him coach Charlotte's
basketball
team; he would accompany her on lecture trips to Italy,
Norway and
Hawaii.
"She was always interested in what I was doing," he says
often, as if
he somehow has to explain.
He always knew her work was important but, since the
accident, he
has made an effort to really understand it. Today, he
can recite her
resume almost by heart: the awards she won as a doctoral
student
at Columbia, where her research on platinum was
considered the
most exciting of its kind, the Women in Science
mentoring program
she started at Dartmouth, the $7 million federal grant
she won to
study toxic metals.
She didn't talk much about work at home, except the
grant, the
largest in the college history. "She was so proud of
that," he says.
The mercury research she was doing with Harvard and MIT
was just
something on the side, Leon explains. Chromium was
Karen's real
area of expertise.
He shakes his head at the irony. Who could have imagined
that the
builder would eventually learn more than the scientist
about the
perils of dimethlymercury?
Others were learning, too. At Dartmouth Medical Center,
Dr. David
Nierenberg scoured the medical literature for clues
about how to
treat his colleague and friend. A mile away in his
campus office, two
doors down from Karen's, John Winn, head of Dartmouth's
chemistry department, grabbed every paper on mercury he
could
find.
The more her colleagues read, the more their hearts
sank.
There was only one documented case of dimethlymercury
poisoning this century, a Czech chemist in 1972 who had
suffered
the same symptoms as Karen and died. A handful of people
had
been exposed directly to pure methlymercury, another
toxic mercury
compound, and died. More well-known mercury poisoning
epidemics, like those in Iraq in the 1970s and Japan in
the 1950s,
involved exposure to foods contaminated by
methylmercury.
There was no telling if dimethlymercury would act the
same way.
Karen herself was beginning to understand. There was a
desperate
look on her face as she pointed to the clock when it was
time to take
her pills. Still, she kept up a brave face, kept saying
not to worry.
"Even if I don't fully recover, maybe I'll get well
enough to ride
again," she whispered to her horse-riding friend and
fellow scientist,
Jacqueline Sinclair.
And when the hospital psychologist asked if she was
depressed,
she smiled. Wouldn't you be? she replied.
That was Jan. 31, three days after the diagnosis. A week
later,
Karen was transferred to Massachusetts General Hospital
for a
massive blood transfusion that nearly killed her.
Leon was pacing at home again, torn between honoring his
wife's
wish not to alert her parents and the feeling that she
was sinking
faster than she knew.
The phone rang. The nurse said Karen wanted to talk to
her son.
From her hospital bed, the mother struggled. She drooled
and
moaned and the words just wouldn't come. Ashley waited
uncomfortably. He didn't like the sounds. He didn't like
the silence.
"Hi, Mom," he coaxed, loud so she might hear. It was
useless. The
nurse ended the torture and took the phone.
"She just wanted to say goodnight," Ashley says, bowing
his head
to hide the tears when he remembers the last time he
talked to his
Mom. "She couldn't even say goodnight."
Others remember final moments, too, although everything
was
happening so fast they didn't seem like goodbyes at the
time. But
friends could see the toll on the scientist's mind and
body. They
could see her faith fading, even as she continued to
talk about
being back on her feet for her new spring course. The
day the
ambulance came to take her to Massachusetts, she cried
uncontrollably.
"I think that's when she knew," says Nadia Gorman,
remembering
how she tried to comfort her friend and colleague as she
wondered
if she would ever talk to her again. "There was a
feeling of total
tragedy in the air."
In the ambulance, Karen told Cathy Johnson for the first
time in their
15-year friendship that she loved her. In the hospital,
she struggled
to point to the letters "N" and "H" on her alphabet
board. Leon
nodded. He promised that, whatever the outcome, he would
take
her home, to New Hampshire.
"As a nonscientist, I couldn't comprehend it all," says
Provost Jim
Wright, Karen's friend and former boss. "And the
scientist I had
been accustomed to turn to for answers was not available
to help
me."
Doctors didn't have answers either. They turned to
Thomas
Clarkson at the University of Rochester in New York, who
had set
up clinics in Iraq during the epidemic there in the
1970s, when
hundreds of people died after eating mercury-poisoned
bread.
His lab stopped everything to help, testing Karen's hair
and blood
samples, ordering a batch of dimethlymercury to begin
its own tests.
"I felt such a sense of helplessness," Clarkson says.
"Here was one
of the world's most distinguished scientists, and I was
looking at this
woman dying realizing there is nothing the scientific or
medical
communities can do."
Karen's lab was shut down. Her family, students and
co-workers
were tested. Her hospital room was checked for airborne
mercury
from her breath. Federal environmental and health
agencies were
alerted, as was the state health department. Her car and
clothes
and house were sniffed with mercury-detectors.
E-mails flew around campus, and around the country.
Students
emptied libraries of books on mercury, staying up all
night to
translate obscure research papers, seizing on any sliver
of
information they could find.
"There would be this elation when we found a study about
someone
that had been cured," Gorman says, "then crying when we
read that
the end point for those who went into a coma was death."
Scientists and doctors around the world offered their
services.
"It was an extraordinary outpouring," Nierenberg says.
But Karen was slipping too fast to appreciate it. Ten
days after the
diagnosis, on Feb. 7, she fell into a coma in
Massachusetts. Leon
told the doctors he was taking her home.
Back at Dartmouth Hitchcock, her family kept vigil by
her bedside,
her parents and sister talking to her as her body
thrashed and
moaned. Leon plastered the walls with cards and
photographs:
Karen on the golf course, at Disney World with the kids,
lunch with
her friends Cathy and Nadia, shaking hands with
President Clinton
at graduation ceremonies in 1996.
Just a tiny drop of poison. And she was fighting it with
all her might.
It became too difficult for the children to visit. Even
friends stayed
home, waiting for the phone call that would tell them it
was over.
Her husband stroked her face. Her sister and her best
friend
washed her hair. Doctors tried treatments never
attempted on
humans before.
But they couldn't save her from the poison. On June 8,
it took her
life.
"She didn't suffer," Ashley told his eighth-grade class
the next day.
"She just stopped breathing."
It was 10 months since she had spilled the drop in the
lab, four
months after she had slipped into a coma.
Karen Wetterhahn's death was as extraordinary as her
life and, in
many ways, just as important. Perhaps she had an idea
that it would
be.
While she could still speak, she urged doctors and
scientists to
learn everything they could from her accident and to
warn the world
about the dangers.
The world has already learned so much. It learned that
the gloves
that were supposed to protect her actually acted as a
conductor to
the poison. It learned that dimethlymercury, so easy to
order in
research catalogs, is more deadly than anyone had
imagined.
Saddest of all, it learned that by the time the symptoms
showed, it
was too late.
There is much more to learn, as scientists and doctors
study her
case. There will be studies and papers, symposiums and
tributes.
There may even be new federal regulations and mandatory
blood
tests for scientists who work with heavy metals. There
is talk of
banning dimethlymercury for good. And talk of turning
her hospital
room into a nurses' lounge and naming it for Karen.
Her funeral took place on a hot summer day to the
strains of a flute
and a choir singing "Be Not Afraid."
In the packed college chapel, the sense of betrayal was
as powerful
as the sense of loss. Colleagues wept as they eulogized
a
modern-day Madame Curie who had sacrificed her life to
her
cause.
What good was pushing back the boundaries of human
knowledge,
they cried, if they had to bury one of their own?
Alone and bewildered, Leon sat in the front pew, looking
out of
place in his dark funeral suit, tears streaming down his
face.
It all seemed like a dream, he says later. No, he
corrects himself -- a
nightmare.
He still wakes in the middle of the night and wonders if
it's true, or if
Karen is just off on another trip. He still half expects
her to come
striding through the door with her laptop and her notes
and her big,
big smile to rustle up some tacos for dinner.
He picks up the picture of Karen working in her lab, a
study of
intensity in her goggles and gloves, staring at her test
tubes and
vials.
"She loved her work," he says. "It made her happy."
She couldn't have known the risks. She couldn't have
known how
bad the bad stuff really was. Truth is, no one knew.
Just a tiny drop of liquid. Sweet-smelling. Dense.
Deadly.
[ASSOCIATED PRESS, LYME, N.H., September 13, 1997
dr shad j lewis (via google)
billkatz
> to eat tomatoes before she wakes up
It could be some of those new fangled Faradic tomatoes you know...
Clinton
dr shad j lewis (via google) wrote:
> yawn
Before one can be bored , they first have to be able to
comprehend what is being said.
LadyLollipop
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I see, another one of those chicken posters who is afraid of having his
posts to be archived.
Translation.
I am a troll, here to harass.
news:r1gbi193cqfonpcc9...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 06:37:41 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
> <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>>...
>>traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent
>>gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced
>>intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery"
>
>
> I'd call that a wake up call... now the only problem is how to get her
> to eat tomatoes before she wakes up
The problem is the usual one, you snipped and pick out a certain part, so
you could belittle.
So very typical.
So exactly which part of Trigeminal neuralgia, do you find, funny?
Did you find the jolts in turn resulted in excruciating pain in the
trigeminal nerve, to be funny?
Did you note that replacing the amalgam filling with a composite resolved
the problem?
Did you note Dr. Cheshire points out that dissimilar metals in contact with
saliva can form a galvanic cell
which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of
potential. He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia
describe their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his
patient's
neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the
amalgam filling and the gold crown?
I thought not. None of that matters to you, you are just a troll, here to
harass.
LadyLollipop
"dr shad j lewis (via google)" <shad...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126551559.9...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> yawn
Correct!
LadyLollipop
"billkatz" <billt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126554833.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
It could be that the dentists here could care less if anyone suffers with:
Trigeminal neuralgia
http://www.tna-support.org/newlook/definition.htm
Trigeminal neuralgia (TN) is not fatal, but it is universally considered to
be the most painful affliction known to medical practice.
Their response is jokes and
yawn.
Doc Holiday
"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Vm9Ve.103788$084.36581@attbi_s22...
> Replacing
> the amalgam filling with a composite resolved the problem. Dr. Cheshire
> points
> out that dissimilar metals in contact with saliva can form a galvanic cell
> which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of
> potential. He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia
> describe
> their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his patient's
> neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between
> the
> amalgam filling and the gold crown.
Actually he made the wrong conclusion :)
He should have left the amalgam filling and change the gold crown with a
ceramic crown which would have had the same effect...
Doc
LadyLollipop
"Doc Holiday" <Dr.P...@web.de> wrote in message
news:432679b9$0$27552$9b4e...@newsread4.arcor-online.net...
So you say, and you were a doctor at Mayo's when?
W_B
>
>I'd call that a wake up call... now the only problem is how to get her
>to eat tomatoes before she wakes up
>
>
Snooze....
--
W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbab...@RBAGEyahoo.com
carabelli
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:35:33 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
> <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent
> >gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced
> >intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery".
>
>
> Now let's look at contradictory evidence. I have a large amalgam
> filling ( tooth 2) over a gold grown ( tooth 30 and 31). They've been
> ther for about 25 years, and I never experienced the symptoms you
> describe.
>
> On the face of it, that would eliminate the galvanic reaction between
> gold and amalgam.
>
> ( I know i'm going to regret this)
>
>
Obvioiusly, you're in denial.
carabelli
Peter Meiers
Doc Holiday schrieb:
>
> Actually he made the wrong conclusion :)
>
> He should have left the amalgam filling and change the gold crown with a
> ceramic crown which would have had the same effect...
He _could_ have left ...
Wyatt Earp
LadyLollipop
I see you you didn't post what I wrote, you are very dishonest.
What I wrote was:
"george1234" <george1234...@excite.com> wrote in message
Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived
This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Sep 19, 12:52 pm).
I see, another one of those chicken posters who is afraid of having his
posts to be archived.
Translation.
I am a troll, here to harass.
Now back to the subject:
Some of you seem to thing this subject is funny, it is NOT! I did a bit of
searching, this is from previous posts, some do not have the URL's.
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/00n_1665/00N-1665-EC-07.html
http://www.yourhealthbase.com/amalgams.html
Trigeminal neuralgia linked to amalgam fillings
JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA. Dr. William Cheshire, a physician at the Mayo Clinic,
reports on a case where a woman's trigeminal neuralgia (tic douloureux) was
traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent
gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced
intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery". The
jolts in turn resulted in excruciating pain in the trigeminal nerve.
Replacing
the amalgam filling with a composite resolved the problem. Dr. Cheshire
points
out that dissimilar metals in contact with saliva can form a galvanic cell
which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of
potential. He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia
describe
their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his patient's
neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the
amalgam filling and the gold crown.
Cheshire, William P., Jr. The shocking tooth about trigeminal neuralgia. New
England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 342, June 29, 2000, p. 2003
(correspondence)
Stovepipe
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 06:37:41 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
> <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
> >...
> >traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent
> >gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced
> >intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery"
>
>
> I'd call that a wake up call... now the only problem is how to get her
> to eat tomatoes before she wakes up
Gentlemen, we can rebuild her....we HAVE the technology.... better than
she was b/4... better.... stronger.... faster!!!!!
and the voltmeter shoots up to 60Volts.
SP
--
Take out the TRASH to reply
LadyLollipop
"Stovepipe" <stove...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1h2ufe4.1ngzhdj19wp4urN%stove...@yahoo.ca...
> george1234 <george...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 06:37:41 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
>> <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>
>> >...
>> >traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent
>> >gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods
>> >produced
>> >intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery"
>>
>>
>> I'd call that a wake up call... now the only problem is how to get her
>> to eat tomatoes before she wakes up
<snip>
The problem is the usual one, you snipped and pick out a certain part, so
you could belittle.
So very typical.
So exactly which part of Trigeminal neuralgia, do you find, funny?
Did you find the jolts in turn resulted in excruciating pain in the
trigeminal nerve, to be funny?
Did you note that replacing the amalgam filling with a composite resolved
the problem?
Did you note Dr. Cheshire points out that dissimilar metals in contact with
saliva can form a galvanic cell
which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of
potential. He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia
describe their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his
patient's
neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the
amalgam filling and the gold crown?
I thought not. None of that matters to you, you are just a troll, here to
harass.
http://www.yourhealthbase.com/amalgams.html
Trigeminal neuralgia linked to amalgam fillings
JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA. Dr. William Cheshire, a physician at the Mayo Clinic,
reports on a case where a woman's trigeminal neuralgia (tic douloureux) was
traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent
gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced
intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery". The
jolts in turn resulted in excruciating pain in the trigeminal nerve.
Replacing the amalgam filling with a composite resolved the problem. Dr.
Cheshire
points out that dissimilar metals in contact with saliva can form a galvanic
cell
which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of
potential. He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia
describe their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his
patient's
neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the
amalgam filling and the gold crown.
Cheshire, William P., Jr. The shocking tooth about trigeminal neuralgia. New
England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 342, June 29, 2000, p. 2003
(correspondence)
>
> SP
Stovepipe
> He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia
> describe their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his
> patient's
> neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the
> amalgam filling and the gold crown.
> Cheshire, William P., Jr. The shocking tooth about trigeminal neuralgia. New
> England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 342, June 29, 2000, p. 2003
> (correspondence)
This article would be interesting to get a hold of... Does anybody out
there get the NEJM?
Thanks
Clinton
george1234 wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:35:33 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
> <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced
> >intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery".
>
>
> Now let's look at contradictory evidence. I have a large amalgam
> filling ( tooth 2) over a gold grown ( tooth 30 and 31). They've been
> ther for about 25 years, and I never experienced the symptoms you
> describe.
You moron. Every configuration of amalgam placement is different.
the chemical concentration/condensation of the amalgam and or crown
could be different. The placement, paths of saliva conduction, saliva
ph, and acidic breakown from bacteria as well as mineral/acid
interactions from local tooth loss, or even immune system interaction
and or crevice corrosion (which is real and can create strong acids
simple from scavanging mechanisms in sealed or statica areas near the
amalgam) couild all create various different states of chemical
breakdown and galvanic interaction. gold will even interact with
amalgam if they are separated by cement. Once corrision sets in high
copper amalgams it is also exponential with depth and certainly would
result in a wide variety of states of galvanic interaction. Only in
your dipsidoddle dumbass world does you "counter example prove
anything. In fact even the manufactuing sheets warn agains placing gold
near amalgams. It should give anyone chills that someone like you is
handling and placing a Hg material in their children and makes monkies
out of people like my
who ever put any trust in their dentist or thought they would have
enough remedial intellegience to appreciate the basic dangers of
the toxic material they were handling.
>
> On the face of it, that would eliminate the galvanic reaction between
> gold and amalgam.
On the face of it proves your a simpleton. Simpletons shouldn't
handle or regulate Hg containing products
LadyLollipop
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:54:31 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
> <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>>I see, another one of those chicken posters who is afraid of having his
>>posts to be archived.
>
> options supports your position?
>
I believe in calling a spade a spade.
> If you note there is a direct counter to your observation in an
> adjacent response. How do you account for the difference in
> observations? In one case we have acid tomatoes conspiring with
> amalgam and gold to produce shocks, and in the other we don't..
>
> Reflection on this counter example, may give you a clue as to why your
> position is treated as a less than serious, it is countered by
> observation.
#1. You would do well to note, it was NOT *my* position.
#2 The problem with this newsgroups and others, they wish to personally
trash the poster.
#3 That is VERY childish.
#4. Your post was RUDE, uncalled for, and disrespectful
The difference for the direct counter was
the sake of an *argument*
In FACT the problem is MOST serious.
The FACT is, most dentists, and those brain washed by *organized medicine
and dentistry*, here laugh at SERIOUS problems.
The FACT is Trigeminal neuralgia, is VERY VERY painful, and ANY one who
laughs and makes jokes about it is D E S P I C A B L E!!!!!!!
LadyLollipop
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:08:21 GMT, "LadyLollipop"
> <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you believe name calling over such a trivial choisce of usenet
>>> options supports your position?
>
>>I believe in calling a spade a spade.
#1 It is most impolite to snip in the middle of a post.
>
> Reflect on the juxtoposition of these two statements, Ace;)
What is a juxtopostion?
>
> Back on topic, you have not adressed the problem of contradictiory
> evidence.
Wrong. I did address it, you very impolitely, snipped it.
Here it is again:
*The difference for the direct counter was
the sake of an *argument*
==
I am not interested in any *argument*
Do you believe as Clinton does that amalgam is not the
> source of the problem, and that there are other elements to the cited
> case?
I agree with Clinton.
However what you twisted above is NOT what Clinton said.
You are a VERY DISHONEST PERSON!!!
dr shad j lewis (via google)
Replace amalgam with composite - symptoms stop.
Replace amalgam with porcelain crown, symptoms stop.
Replace gold crown with porcelain, and LEAVE AMALGAM - symptoms stop.
Prove it wrong. Lady Lollipop.
How many licks does it take to get to the center of your tootsie?
carabelli
Can't post a lemniscate in this format
carabelli
Clinton
dr shad j lewis (via google) wrote:
> This is funny. Amalgam filling and gold crown.
>
> Replace amalgam with composite - symptoms stop.
>
> Replace amalgam with porcelain crown, symptoms stop.
>
> Replace gold crown with porcelain, and LEAVE AMALGAM - symptoms stop.
>
> Prove it wrong. Lady Lollipop.
I don't know what in the heck you and george are blabbering about.
For one thing replacing the gold could STOP the galvanic action
but by that time the amalgam could have corroded from the galvanic
action and releasing much more Hg since corrosion is exponential with
depth. Why would you keep such a filling in the patients mouth even if
the electrical jolts ceased, unless you had a completely false
conception of the stablility of amalgam.
Ask yourself this simple question. If amalgam and gold/ or another
amalgam were placed in such a way to dissipate electrical jolts which
would have a cetain amount of energy, where is that energy
coming from. In other words if you can take two dissimilar materials
and place them together to supply a 'biological" circuit with energy,
why should the two materials be structurally unaffected. That would be
energy for nothing. The STRUCTURE of the materials is always affected
unless you belive in free energy.
Second any two dissimilar materials or amalgam could cause such a
problem. And obviously amalgam by
itself can breakdown, chemically without generating electricity
in a galvanci type of circuit, or even withot galvanism being involved.
Crevice corrsion is one mechanism.
that was just an extreme example exacerbated when the patient eats
acid which probably also affect the galvanic reaction/corrosion rate,
and electrical properties of the gold/amalgam- to get the point across
that amalgam is not an inherently stable material. Kinda of like
saying, look, electricity must be
real because this tree was just vaporized with a lighting bolt.
Pointing out that in many cases lightining doesn't srike, doesn't
mean the concept of electricity is now invalid whenever there isn't
a thunderstorm.
Clinton
dr shad j lewis (via google) wrote:
Dam, I just wrote a long response which got lost by Google. Cetainly
the amalgam could have already corroded and be releasing higher
levels of Hg, even if replacing the gold stops the electrical reaction.
Why keep the amalgam in. Two dissimiarl materials
will not maintain their orginal structure and still supply energy
in a galvanic type circuit indefintely. That would be energy for
nothing. The point is that to be involved in this type of reaction
clearly shows the amalgam is not inherently stable.
LadyLollipop
"dr shad j lewis (via google)" <shad...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126745492.5...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Sad that you think it funny.
>
> Replace amalgam with composite - symptoms stop.
>
> Replace amalgam with porcelain crown, symptoms stop.
>
> Replace gold crown with porcelain, and LEAVE AMALGAM - symptoms stop.
That wasn't mentioned, but the problem is, the VERY clear.
There is a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent
gold-alloy crown, dissimilar metals in contact with saliva can form a
galvanic cell
which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of
potential.
He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia
describe their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his
patient's
neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the
amalgam filling and the gold crown.
Cheshire, William P., Jr. The shocking tooth about trigeminal neuralgia. New
England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 342, June 29, 2000, p. 2003
(correspondence)
<remainer snipper>
Clinton
LadyLollipop wrote:
> "dr shad j lewis (via google)" <shad...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1126745492.5...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > This is funny. Amalgam filling and gold crown.
>
> Sad that you think it funny.
the other thing that pisses me off is by pretending amalgam
was inert for so long, jokers like this think (thought and still
think), it doesn't matter the way you put the amalgam in or
other factors such as adjacent metals. Gee if amalgams stable
I can just stick it in even if it isn't mixed right and who
cares if its next to gold. Hg will never come out of the filling?
And then people like me have to spend years backtracking only to
find some Jackass thought amalgam was some magic material that
it didn't matter how the **** you install it.
They even have Q/A sites on how did build fillings with different
types of amalgams for better material properties. (Loud buzzing sound)
wrong answer, that's a setup for corrosion.
LadyLollipop
"Clinton" <clin...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:1126753272....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
One word for them,,,,,,,PATHETIC!
Robert Morien
"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
and yet you never harass anyone.
billkatz
means the materials ability to resist corrosion. There is also a chart
called the Galvanic Series which shows the electrical potential of
metals. A more noble metal is one that has a neutral or negative
electrical potential. It will not generate a flow of positive ions. The
most noble metals are graphite, platinum, gold, silver and mercury;
respectively in that order.
The reverse of this are the least noble metals, which have a high
positive charge, and which will generate an electrical current. These
materials include such metals as cadmium, beryllium, zinc and
magnesium, again in that order.
Galvanism (electricity produced by chemical action) in this case simply
refers to the flow of electrons when two dissimilar metals are mated
together. Creating an amalgam of mercury and silver or by placing gold
in proximity does not create galvanism. A metallurgist will tell you
that your theory is hogwash because you've blended the most noble of
metals. Blending mercury and cadmium, on the other hand, would cause
this reaction even though you wouldn't have a stable compound.
Dentists have to pass numerous chemistry classes before they become
licensed. Amalgamists, obviously, -- don't!
W_B
>The
>most noble metals are graphite, platinum, gold, silver and mercury;
>respectively in that order.
Graphite ? isn't that carbon ?
Clinton
billkatz wrote:
Creating an amalgam of mercury and silver or by placing gold
> in proximity does not create galvanism. A metallurgist will tell
According to you galvansim can't occur between amalgam and Gold.
Well,
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ada/jada/2003/00000134/00000011/art00007
Remember to inform the JADA of that. By the way amalgam also
contains numerous other metals including zinc and copper, in
significant amounts. (especially the newer forumaltions)
Now back to the main point, IF the phenommena above occurs and
energy is being generated then that means a change in chemical
structure is occuring. You don't get elecrtical shocks by having
an amalgam next to gold and then say, but if we remove them after
years of this kind of phenomena they will be just like new!
you
> that your theory is hogwash because you've blended the most noble of
> metals. Blending mercury and cadmium, on the other hand, would
ARe you seriously going to say that galvansim DOESN'T occur with
dental materials. By the way amalgam also releases large amounts
of Hg vapor. Didn't they also use gold to mine for Hg!
billkatz
Graphite is always included as first in the cathodic or "noble end" of
the Galvanic Table due to its properties. Graphite is also an inherent
part of many alloys and plays a crucial part in many superconductors.
(Of course, mercury is a superconductor too, at 4 Kelvin.)
Lets see what kind of sh*t they can start with that <LOL>
W_B
>Didn't they also use gold to mine for Hg!
Like most things, you have that backward *and* incorrect.
Hg was used in the processing of Au and Ag ore to separate
out the metals.
Clinton
W_B wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2005 09:04:16 -0700, "Clinton" <clin...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >Didn't they also use gold to mine for Hg!
>
> Like most things, you have that backward *and* incorrect.
>
> Hg was used in the processing of Au and Ag ore to separate
> out the metals.
Who give a ****, that was just put in jokingly as an aside. the
point is the linked article. Lets see who should I take more
serously , someon who doesn't believe in evolution or someone
who doesn't even know if amalgam is a conductor
billkatz
> contains numerous other metals including zinc and copper, in
> significant amounts. (especially the newer forumaltions)
> Now back to the main point, IF the phenommena above occurs and
> energy is being generated then that means a change in chemical
> structure is occuring. You don't get elecrtical shocks by having
> an amalgam next to gold and then say, but if we remove them after
> years of this kind of phenomena they will be just like new!
Mixing silver, mercury and small amounts of copper (another noble
metal) and zinc is not the same as nickel and cadmium. Take a voltage
meter and put it in your mouth. There won't be any.
> Didn't they also use gold to mine for Hg!
No, you have that assbackwards too.
W_B
Knew about graphite as cathode, but calling it a noble metal ?
Clinton
1. Actually as WB pointed out they already did that on the discovery
channel and they foung a voltage between amalgam and gold.
2. i don't have amalgam for obvious reasons
3. Amalgams can contain a lot of copper up to 10% nor is the
concentation of metals always uniform on the surface.
4.
>
> > Didn't they also use gold to mine for Hg!
>
> No, you have that assbackwards too.
Hey listne you smug twit. i threw that in as a joke. Why don't you
comment on the cited article you twitbrained jackass. What kind of
an idiot thinks they can insult someone when they are clearly
condradicted by a cited article in the next link and doesn't have to
comment on the article. You think galvansim doesn't occur. Google
amalgam and galvansim moron. Who gives a shit about your
electronegativity table
billkatz
<snip>
Anger management problems??? <LOL>
People have lived with amalgams for over a hundred years and they'll
continue to do so, with or without your consent. ;*P
If a person is suffering from a significant electric shock or current;
it can be easily measured by any sane person at home with a meter. The
reason I find your posts so amusing is because they border on the
hysterical. Walk down the street and of every ten adults you pass, at
the very minimum, three will have amalgam fillings and metal crowns.
You see them suffering from this form of electro-shock therapy? NO!
What does concern me is that someone will try to get some perfectly
healthy teeth ripped out because they've read this endless drivel of
yours. That *is* a concern.
billkatz
My bad :) I'll proofread next time!
Clinton
billkatz wrote:
> > Hey listne you...
> <snip>
>
> Anger management problems??? <LOL>
That' right hg does make you angry you lucky heatlthy,ignorant ..I'll
skip the rest of what i was going to say.
> People have lived with amalgams for over a hundred years and they'll
> continue to do so, with or without your consent. ;*P
Twit brained response
>
> If a person is suffering from a significant electric shock or current;
> it can be easily measured by any sane person at home with a meter.
Can you refer to the quoted article on galvansim I linked to.
Do you like to repeatedly make a jackass out of yourself in public?
I guess some people do!
The
> reason I find your posts so amusing is because they border on the
> hysterical.
You wouldn't be laughing if you'f been poisoned by mercury then
had an infection that took away a lot of your jaw. I'm, going
to post my CT scan so everyone can see how hilarious this is.
The reason I find YOUR posts hysterical is because you seem
so feeblemend yet confident you know about amalgamyou remind of the
100,000 of dentists who are the same. if you were a dentist I'd
run the other way. you actually do remind of my old dentist, always
ready with a joke, thought amalgam probably was inert and a little
slow.
>Walk down the street and of every ten adults you pass, at
> the very minimum, three will have amalgam fillings and metal crowns.
How did you do on reading comprhension in school? Why don't you read
the quoted reference. You didn't even read it did you. Galvansin yes or
no? Who cares what happens most of the time, and who cares if people
are being shocked (of course it is important to those it happens to).
Its the ability of amalgam to interact electrivally/chemically that is
at issue. Over time all amalgams will release Hg and corrode. They
lose a lot of material. that *is* universal. if you say you've got a
univeral
equation to set the limits on that under all conditions over several
decades your full of **** and i've got a nobel prize for you! You
can't even characterize the phase changes or vapor pressure of amalgam.
Adn if you say you've gone out and done studies on people experienceing
electric effects your also
full of ****.
Obviously most poeple don't have their amalgams placed in
identicalmanner under identical condition and most don't expierence
electric shocks. Most may even have amalgam behave in a "relatively"
stable manner. Regardless going by
what you percieve "happens most the time" is not a scientific argument.
In fact it's the most primative form of reasoning there
is. It makes you the intellectual equivalent of a monkey. Is this how
you go through life or can you actually think things through
theoretically without following what the other "monkeys" are doing.
> You see them suffering from this form of electro-shock therapy? NO!
> What does concern me is that someone will try to get some perfectly
> healthy teeth ripped out because they've read this endless drivel of
> yours. That *is* a concern.
Oh please, can the fake concern. And that is so stupid. if someone was
having electrical shocks from thier amalgam, they would know. Otherwise
they wouldn't be concerned at all. As far as amalgam being unstable, IT
IS SOME OF THE TIME IN SOME Cases you scientifically simpleminded
conformist intellectually ignorant, lazy twit.
It's the largest source of elemental Hg under *ideal* circumstances.
Remember the article in the NEJM or did that go in one ear/out the
other.
You also managed to mischaracterize what I said again. Getting to be a
real habit of yours along with the unsubstantiated, lame, half
simplified scientific counter arguments which always coincide with
'what I observe to be true'/ which then with a simple multimeter
measurement or linked article in the JADA is subsequently shown to be
false.
Notice how in a few posts suddenly we've gone from stilted lectures on
electronegativity to an attack post completely deviod of any science
which ignores obvious scientific links, and is chocked full of
smug-self assured opinion and bigoted innuenendo based
on what you think happens to "the group" and what other people say.
Again, my point is that electrically phenoma when it occurs will be
accmpanied by strucural changes. I.E replacing the crown is half the
problem if the amalgam is corroding. AND CORROSION products can
increase drasitcally with corrosion depth. (Don't make me quote an
article on that either, look it up yourself.)
dr shad j lewis (via google)
dr shad j lewis (via google)
Why the name calling, clinton?
Clinton
dr shad j lewis (via google) wrote:
> For your information - Mercury does not cause infections.
Actually it can damage bone, especially the marror which can allow
infection to set in. In fact Hg vapor can cause teeth to loosen.
We had a disussion on this before in Sci.med.
Clinton
dr shad j lewis (via google) wrote:
> Besides, why so hostile?
>
> Why the name calling, clinton?
Well, because I can still feel the effects from the amalgam/infection
in the jaw, and that stuff really does make you mad! especially when it
methylates! You know when you are poisoned by hg to a signifcant degree
the symptomatic anger really never does go completely away. Then when I
read what people say about amalgam and i know the domino effect it can
have on your health (in certain cases. I'm not arguing that most people
"seem" to be "relatvely" healthy with amalgam), it makes me even
madder!!, to realize that all this wouldn't have happened if my
dentist and others just had common sense about amalgam!
LadyLollipop
"billkatz" <billt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126784952.1...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
NOW, if they only had to pass a HONESTY test!!!!
What you left out!
****The fluids of the mouth that act as electrolytes are the saliva****
WHICH IS WHAT CLINTON ALREADY SAID!!!!!!!!!
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/galv.html
http://www.testfoundation.org/Gold-Amalgam.htm
GOLD-AMALGAM IN CONTACT
Citations from literature
Edited and translated by
Mats Hanson
# ... it is evident that metallic contacts between gold fillings and silver
amalgam fillings must be considered malpractice since under such conditions
a
direct local element is formed with corresponding voltages and corrosive
conditions (Reply from Bundesgesundheitsamt 14.02.1980 to an inquiry from
the
consumer organization Arbeitsgemeinschaft der Verbraucher, Bonn)
#This amalgam is destructive to gold fillings and plate. The strong affinity
of
gold for mercury, renders this amalgam destructive to gold fillings or
plate. I
have seen in several instances the teeth which were clasped to secure the
plate, filled with mercurial paste, and in each instance the clasp was
literally eaten off at this point. To demonstrate this effect, we need only
rub
a piece of gold with the amalgam, when the surface will immediately become
white to the extent that the amalgam of gold is formed. This amalgam like
that
of silver is oxydable and easily removed; gold plugs and plate are not only
subject to this destructive process, from actual contact of the amalgam in
its
primitive form, but several salts formed from the oxydation of these cement
fillings, and which are held in solution by the saliva, are also destructive
to
gold. Westcott: Report on Mineral Paste, The American Journal of Dental
Science
vol IV, 1844, 175-193
#Occasionally, a gold inlay is placed in contact with an adjacent proximal
amalgam restoration, or an amalgam filling is placed in an opposing tooth,
or
perhaps a gold clasp touches an amalgam restoration. All such procedures are
almost sure to cause a corrosion of of the amalgam, since an electrocouple
with
considerable elevtromotive force is produced between the gold alloy and the
amalgam (approximately 500 millivolts). Mercury is sometimes found in the
gold
alloy, which is thereby weakened. Such a condition is always a hazard to the
health of the patient. When couples of this nature are studied under
laboratory
conditions, the amalgam corrodes, regardless of a polished surface or a
protective tarnish film. (The Science of Dental Materials, E.W. Skinner, 3:e
ed. 1948, W.B. Saunders Co, Phil. & Lond.) (Changed in the next edition to:
such conditions should be avoided)
#...older man, who besides many amalgam fillings, had a gold crown in his
mouth, something dentistry considers not allowable because of the possible
galvanic processes, but dentists often ignore in practice. 11,2 µg Hg in 780
cm3 urine (14,4 µg/l). He had had stomatitis for several years and also
other
symptoms indicating mercury poisoning. (Stock A & Cucuel F der
Quecksilberhalt
der menschlichen Ausscheidungen und des menschlichen Blutes. Zeitschr angew.
Chemie 47, 1934, 641-7)
#Amalgam and gold close together is, because of the then occurring
electrolytic
degradation process in the mouth, especially dangerous and should be
avoided.
(Stock A. Die Gefährlichkeit des Quecksilberdampfes und der Amalgame,
Zeitschr
angew. Chemie 39, 1926, 984-989)
#One should especially avoid placing amalgam plombs in the vicinity of
metals
(genuine gold fillings, gold bridges and bridges and plates of false gold).
In
such cases electrolytic currents will occur, which also degrade the deeper
parts of the amalgam fillings and can cause the evaporation of larger
amounts
of mercury. (F. Gradewitz, (dentist) Zeitschr angew. Chemie 39, 1926 788-9)
#The erratic variation of current that we found when we plotted the Evans
diagrams of gold alloy coupled with an amalgam alloy also can be explained
as a
succession of deterioration and reconstruction of the corrosion film. Our
conclusion is that a clinical amalgam restoration in contact with a gold
crown,
could corrode continously at a high rate. (Study of the electrochemical
behavior of gold dental alloys. Brugirard J, Bargain R, Dupuy JC, Mazille H
&
Monnier G Study of the electrochemical behavior of gold dental alloys J.
Dent.
Res 52, 1973, 828-836)
#Cracks in gold crowns cemented on amalgam.... explanation can be mercury
diffusing into the grain boundaries in regions where there was contact
between
amalgam and gold. In this study corrosion products derived from amalgam were
identified in the main cracks.... The small area of amalgam exposed to the
oral
cavity through the cracks will give a small anode and a big cathode, and
this
will cause accelerated corrosion of the amalgam. The corrosion causes the
release of metallic ions, which can cause problems for some individuals. In
this case the gold crowns were obtained from patients with symptoms such as
a
metallic taste from the teeth before extraction. It is not known how common
cracks in gold crowns are, but we believe that many cracks have not been
detected simply because no one has looked for them. (Ode'n A & Tullberg M,
Cracks in gold crowns cemented on amalgam restorations Acta Odont Scand 43
1985
15-17)
#Gold and amalgam placed in contact in the oral cavity will cause galvanic
currents and increased corrosion of the amalgam, with release of metal ions.
The corrosion of the amalgam may reduce its strength and cause increased
marginal breakdown of the filling. The electric currents and possibly also
the
release of metal ions may cause oral discomfort in certain individuals....
In
clinical use, an amalgam restoration may come into contact with a crown or a
bridge several times larger, which must be regarded as particularly
unfavorable. (Holland, R.I. Galvanic currents between gold and amalgam
Scand.
J. Dent. Res. 88, 1989 269-272).
# Contact between two different alloys thus enhance corrosion. Under such
circumstances a galvanic element in the mouth is formed where the two metals
constitute the poles and the saliva the electrolyte. Galvanism,
electrocorrosion are different names for the same phenomenon. A gold
restoration, repaired with amalgam, causes considerable corrosion,
especially
of the amalgam and produces noticable changes in the amalgam and also in the
gold. An amalgam post under a gold crown also leads to corrosion. Thus,
amalgam
should not be used to fill cavities in the presence of gold at the cavity
margin or occlusally afte endodontic treatment through a gold crown. If it
should be necessary to use amalgam for this purpose because of difficulties
to
introduce some othe material, (e.g. composites), it should be
non-gamma2-amalgam, since this corrodes slightly less than other amalgams.
If
there is a contact between two different amalgam types, a non-gamm2 and one
of
another type, the older type corrodes extensively. I a gold crown is
prepared
on an amalgam core, changes on the inner surface can be recognized with the
naked eyes. Mixing different types of metals in the same oral cavity should,
if
possible, be avoided. (Söremark, R. Biological aspects of dental materials,
Compendium, inst. Prostetics, Dept of Dent, Karolinska Inst. Sth).
# In the laboratory and clinically we study the proneness to corrode when
commonly used dental alloys are combined. The results show very large
differences in corrosion rate between different combinations. The conclusion
is
that certain dental alloys should not be combined in the same mouth
(Söremark,
R. Oral Galvanism - vad är det?, KI-Journalen (Karolinska Inst.) no.1 1982
17-17)
# Two or more metals, in the same environment, may cause electrochemical
processes such as galvanic cell corrosion and currents. Several
investigations
have shown that the use of different metals as restorative materials in the
same mouth can cause not only symptoms of 'galvanic pain' and patological
lesions on the soft tissue, but also deterioration of the used materials and
distribution of corrosion products into the tissues.
Cast gold alloy and amalgam are often used for dental restorations in the
same
mouth. Galvanic corrosion resulting from contact between amalgam and gold
has
been studied by several workers. Schoonover & Souder reported that gold
tarnished and amalgam corroded, when they were placed in contact and kept in
a
sodium cloride solution for six months.
..In spite of these established facts and the oral symptoms caused by
electrochemical effects, it is still common practise to mix different alloys
as
restorative materials in the same mouth and even in the same tooth.
(Arvidson
K., In vitro corrosion studies of a dental gold alloy in contact with
cohesive
gold and amalgam Swed. Dent J. 68 1975 41-45).
# Mixing different restorative alloys may give rise to electrochemical
processes, such as currents and galvanic corrosion, causing more or less
pronounced destruction of the alloys, and pathologic changes in the
surrounding
soft tissues. As a consequence, restorations of gold and amalgam, in contact
with each other, have been contraindicated. (Arvidson, K. Corrosion studies
of
a dental gold alloy in contact with amalgam under different conditions Swed
Dent J 68 1975 135-139).
#Although dissimilar metals not in contact have received most attention, it
is
not uncommon to find two or more dissimilar metals so placed in the oral
cavity
as to be in direct contact with or in close proximity to each other. Such a
practice will most certainly be conductive to galvanic action, as will be
demonstrated by experiments to be described later in this paper. ...
polished
amalgam disks and plates of a dental gold alloy...If, however, the above
mentioned metals are placed in contact with or in close proximity to each
other, for example separated by a liquid film, corrosion of one or both of
the
metals does occur. In dental practice, examples which fulfil the
requirements
for this typ of galvanic action are 1. two metals connected by bridgework; 2
two metals in corresponding upper and lower teeth, and 3; two metals next to
each other in adjacent teeth.... A polished amalgam disk and a plate of
dental
gold were so arranged in a 1 percent solution of sodium chloride that
contact
between them could be periodically interrupted each minute. Corrosion of the
amalgam began immediately...amalgam and gold in contact...Corrosion began
immediately on the surface the amagam. A white flocculent precipitate was
formed. After approximately six months, the amalgams and gold were removed
from
the solution and examined. The amalgams were badly corroded and contained
many
pits, which were distributed at random over the surface. In some, cases,
pits
were found on the side of the amalgam not in contact with the gold alloy.
Corrosion was most severe on the amalgam at the points where the edges of
the
gold came in contact with the amalgam.
#Dissimilar metals i contact constitute a hazard and should be examined for
evidence of corrosion... The possibility that the patient may be allergic to
metal ions formed from corrosion cells should be considered whenever
disturbances are thought to arise from the presence of dissimilar metals or
from a corroding amalgam. ...in some cases, corrosion was so severe that the
amalgam had apparently lost much of its strength and could be crumbled
between
the fingers. (Schoonover IC & Souder W, National Bureau of Standards, USA,
Corrosion of dental alloys J. Amer Dent Ass 28 1941 1278-1291).
# The third effect that has been reported was the corrosion of restorations
due
to galvanic current. The potential difference between gold and amalgam in
saliva has been reported to be as great as 0.5 volts and some corrosion of
amalgam is considered possible. Schoonover and Souder have reported that
gold
restorations were corroded by mercury released from amalgam fillings because
of
an electrochemical reaction. Since then most dental textbooks have
recommended
against the use of gold in contact with amalgam in the mouth. It is a fact,
however, that many dental clinicians are routinely using them in contact
with
each other. Thus, there seems to be some discordance between past basic
experiments and clinical practice. (Fusayama T et al Corrosion of gold and
amalgam placed in contact with each other, J. Dent. Res 42 1963 1183-1197).
#Finally we strongly recommend the absolute avoidance of contact between
metals
with large potential differences like gold alloys and silver amalgam.
(Laetzsch
E Ist es bei zahnärztlich-prothetischen Behandlungen erforderlich, einen
einheitligen metallischen Werkstoff anzuwenden? Dtsch Stomatol 22 1972
183-188)
# The placement of an amalgam restoration adjacent to a gold inlay seems to
be
contraindicated. Phillips Elements of Dental Materials WB Saunders Co 1977
# If two fillings, wet with saliva, are connected through an ordinary
microammeter or galvanometer... Early workers reported such currents to be
as
much as 50 microamperes, and even much more in some cases. These facts
indicate
that contacts between metallic fillings in place in teeth, must be avoided.
If
necessary a plastic plug may be inserted in one of them at the point of
contact.....The many case histories that have been reported in the
literature
lead one to conclude that serious pathologic conditions in the oral cavity
have
been caused by metallic dental fillings. There appears to be no evidence
that
such conditions are caused directly by the electric current. However, if the
subject happens to exhibit hypersensitivity to certain metallic ions
supplied
by the dental fillings, then, since the electric current hastyens the
solution
of the fillings and assists in transporting the ions to and through the
tissues, it may exert an indirect detrimental effect on the subject.
Schriever
W & Diamond LE J. Dent Res 31, 1952, 205-229
# The presence of silver-tin-amalgam in the immediate neighborhood of gold
will
enhance the corrosion of the amalgam. Harndt E Dtsch Zahärztl Wschr 33 1930
564
#On examination of mouths, it was found, for example, that if the patient
has
gold and amalgam in his mouth, the amalgam acts as the positive pole, giving
out calcium (from the tooth; transl. comment.) and producing decay.
Gradually,
the amalgam itself is destroyed....When two contigous teeth, or two
corresponding upper and lower ones, contain different metals, they are
liable
to destruction. Wakai E JADA 23 1936 1000-6
# When amalgam is brought into contact with a plate of dental gold alloy in
a 1
% sodium chloride solution at 37 degrees a very severe corrosion occurs
which
after a few days results in formation of substantial amounts of corrosion
products.....in addition to the loose, powderlike corrosion products, minute
drops of mercury. Jörgensen, K.D. Acta Odont Scand 23 1965 347-8
Clinton
george1234 wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2005 14:41:52 -0700, "Clinton" <clin...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >>... it makes me even
> >madder!!, to realize that all this wouldn't have happened if my
> >dentist and others just had common sense about amalgam!
>
> the 60's when I first got my cavites filled. Was there an alternative
> available when you first got your teeth fixed?
My dentist removed my records so i can't figure out
exactly when he placed my first fillings. (which in fact were the ones
that "corroded" after about 8-9 years). Probably they were placed
between 80-82. I can't really remember if alternatives were available
then because I was too young but no one I knew talked about anything
else.
Interestingly the actual material used was valiant phd which was a
newer non-gamma2 formulation introduced in the 70's composed of copper
and palladium.
billkatz
I'm not trying to patronize or belittle you or anyone else who's
sick.
If you tell me that your teeth came loose, I believe you.
If you tell me that you abscessed and you had to fight horrible
infections, I believe you.
If you tell me that you lost part of your jaw from it, I believe you.
If you tell me that you have heart disease, I'll believe you.
So, please, in all frankness, accept my apology. I clearly understand
where you're trying to point me to and I by no means hold any name
calling to heart. Aside from the evidence you propose to us, can you
please describe the progression of what happened to you? Did you have
any symptoms? Did this happen suddenly or over time?
Clinton
billkatz wrote:
> Clinton,
>
> I'm not trying to patronize or belittle you or anyone else who's
> sick.
>
> If you tell me that your teeth came loose, I believe you.
> If you tell me that you abscessed and you had to fight horrible
> infections, I believe you.
> If you tell me that you lost part of your jaw from it, I believe you.
> If you tell me that you have heart disease, I'll believe you.
>
> So, please, in all frankness, accept my apology. I clearly understand
Thanks for your apology.
> where you're trying to point me to and I by no means hold any name
> calling to heart.
Sometimes the best way to make these issues interesting is to
argue a little. otherwise people tend to doze off.
Aside from the evidence you propose to us, can you
> please describe the progression of what happened to you? Did you have
> any symptoms? Did this happen suddenly or over time?
Sure, absolutely. Actually I already discussed some of it on
Sci.med so I hate to bore people with the same thing over and
over, however I never went into that much detail... I'll write up
a summary of the symptoms when I get a chance. The progression spans 3
decades from the 80's to the 2000's. Today I'm typed
out!
LadyLollipop
> For your information - Mercury does not cause infections.
For YOURS, it POISONS, including AMALGAMS!
LadyLollipop
> Besides, why so hostile?
>
> Why the name calling, clinton?
You might ask that of the other dentists here!
Joel M. Eichen
>On 15 Sep 2005 04:49:12 -0700, "billkatz" <billt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The
>>most noble metals are graphite, platinum, gold, silver and mercury;
>>respectively in that order.
>
>Graphite ? isn't that carbon ?
Graphite in the mouth produces untold suffering ..........
Its carbon meaning it has a postive valence making it a metal.
Joel M. Eichen
Sir Graphite to you.
Joel M. Eichen
wrote:
>> Remember to inform the JADA of that. By the way amalgam also
>> contains numerous other metals including zinc and copper, in
>> significant amounts. (especially the newer forumaltions)
>
>> Now back to the main point, IF the phenommena above occurs and
>> energy is being generated then that means a change in chemical
>> structure is occuring. You don't get elecrtical shocks by having
>> an amalgam next to gold and then say, but if we remove them after
>> years of this kind of phenomena they will be just like new!
>
>Mixing silver, mercury and small amounts of copper
sounds like a good recipe for an amalgam!
Joel M. Eichen
>
>dr shad j lewis (via google) wrote:
>> For your information - Mercury does not cause infections.
>
>Actually it can damage bone, especially the marror which can allow
Actually the marror is chopped apples and nuts with some honey mixed
in .........
It causes infected teeth so Clinton must mean the chewable marror.
Joel
Joel M. Eichen
>
>dr shad j lewis (via google) wrote:
>> Besides, why so hostile?
>>
>> Why the name calling, clinton?
>
>Well, because I can still feel the effects from the amalgam/infection
>in the jaw, and that stuff really does make you mad! especially when it
>methylates!
Even worse, on occasion it methylmethacrylates .........
Joel M. Eichen
>
>My dentist removed my records so i can't figure out
>exactly when he placed my first fillings.
REPLY
In many cases I recommend KEEPING the records ... and REMOVING the
patient.
Joel
LadyLollipop
"george1234" <george...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1vsji15grstl0l37a...@4ax.com...>>>... it makes me even
>>madder!!, to realize that all this wouldn't have happened if my
>>dentist and others just had common sense about amalgam!
>
> the 60's when I first got my cavites filled. Was there an alternative
> available when you first got your teeth fixed?
You should learn the history of amalgams and the FACT it should have NEVER
been used!!
http://www.wholisticresearch.com/info/artshow.php3?artid=20
Peter Bowditch
So what should have been used in 1830, Jan? Polyurethane? Depleted
uranium? Wood? Mild steel? Gutta percha? Solder? Ammonium nitrate?
Suggestions, please, not just dismissal of one alternative.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Steven Fawks
> My dentist removed my records so i can't figure out
> exactly when he placed my first fillings. (which in fact were the ones
> that "corroded" after about 8-9 years). Probably they were placed
> between 80-82.
I was early into posterior composite placement and I didn't start
using the material until '83 and didn't switch until '85.
Before posterior composites the only other option was gold (a very
good option, just quite expensive for a kid likely to get more
decay on the same tooth and require wrecking an expensive inlay
for a larger one)
Fawks
W_B
>On 15 Sep 2005 14:41:52 -0700, "Clinton" <clin...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>>>... it makes me even
>>madder!!, to realize that all this wouldn't have happened if my
>>dentist and others just had common sense about amalgam!
>
>So... when did you get amalgam. IIRC, that's all that was available in
>the 60's when I first got my cavites filled. Was there an alternative
>available when you first got your teeth fixed?
>
Gold.
W_B
G.V. Black... extension for prevention.
Clinton
Well there you, have it. In the late 70's early 80's it would be
either amalgam or gold. It would be interesting to know exactly
how many people did get gold then. Of course from the perspective of
the amalgam issue, the irony is that if you didn't get all gold
restorations the potential for Gold to interact with amalgam is
there. I.E for some people gold and amalgam would be worse than
just amalgam, as documented in this thread. And of course, assuming a
kid is aware of all these issues just convincing their parents to get
only gold fillings could be a very difficult task (epecially if your
brothers or sisters then decided they wanted only gold fillings too!)
so you would end up with amalgam anyway!
LadyLollipop
"Peter Bowditch" <myfir...@ratbags.com> wrote in message
news:q5uki1tb6h6ml4qlc...@4ax.com...
> "LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"george1234" <george...@excite.com> wrote in message
>>news:1vsji15grstl0l37a...@4ax.com...
>>> On 15 Sep 2005 14:41:52 -0700, "Clinton" <clin...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>... it makes me even
>>>>madder!!, to realize that all this wouldn't have happened if my
>>>>dentist and others just had common sense about amalgam!
>>>
>>> So... when did you get amalgam. IIRC, that's all that was available in
>>> the 60's when I first got my cavites filled. Was there an alternative
>>> available when you first got your teeth fixed?
>>
>>You should learn the history of amalgams and the FACT it should have NEVER
>>been used!!
>>
>>http://www.wholisticresearch.com/info/artshow.php3?artid=20
>>
>
> So what should have been used in 1830, Jan? Polyurethane? Depleted
> uranium? Wood? Mild steel? Gutta percha? Solder? Ammonium nitrate?
>
> Suggestions, please, not just dismissal of one alternative.
> --
> Peter Bowditch
NOT mercury!!!!!!!
<snip proven lying websites and spam>
billkatz
> either amalgam or gold. It would be interesting to know exactly
> how many people did get gold then. Of course from the perspective of
> the amalgam issue, the irony is that if you didn't get all gold
> restorations the potential for Gold to interact with amalgam is
> there. I.E for some people gold and amalgam would be worse than
> just amalgam, as documented in this thread. And of course, assuming a
> kid is aware of all these issues just convincing their parents to get
> only gold fillings could be a very difficult task (epecially if your
> brothers or sisters then decided they wanted only gold fillings too!)
> so you would end up with amalgam anyway!
So, Clinton, in your own words, how did this happen to you? I know
there are several people, including myself who'd like to know. Were
there symptoms? Were there warning signs? You indicated that you've
battled with this for decades. How did this manifest itself and what
treatment did you seek?
Peter Bowditch
I asked for a suggestion. A "not" is not a suggestion. What you said
made as much sense as saying that your suggestion of what to use is
"not seaweed", "not testosterone", "not petrified wood", "not George W
Bush's DNA", "not Las Vegas casino chips", "not the headlight switch
from a Honda Civic", or "not a first folio edition of Shakespeare".
In any case, nobody has ever suggested using mercury as a restorative
material for teeth. It is a liquid at body temperature (despite what
some anti-mercury loons say), so it would run out if you tilted your
head. How you would use it to fill top teeth is a mystery.
There is an infinite number of things which would not be suggested.
Please tell us what you would suggest.
>
><snip proven lying websites and spam>
No proof of lies, and no spam. Poor, sad Lollypoop.
billkatz
> Please tell us what you would suggest.
People like that can't. Most have not been to the dentist in many, many
years.
NASTY!
LadyLollipop
> "LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Peter Bowditch" <myfir...@ratbags.com> wrote in message
>>news:q5uki1tb6h6ml4qlc...@4ax.com...
>>> "LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"george1234" <george...@excite.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:1vsji15grstl0l37a...@4ax.com...
>>>>> On 15 Sep 2005 14:41:52 -0700, "Clinton" <clin...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>... it makes me even
>>>>>>madder!!, to realize that all this wouldn't have happened if my
>>>>>>dentist and others just had common sense about amalgam!
>>>>>
>>>>> So... when did you get amalgam. IIRC, that's all that was available in
>>>>> the 60's when I first got my cavites filled. Was there an alternative
>>>>> available when you first got your teeth fixed?
>>>>
>>>>You should learn the history of amalgams and the FACT it should have
>>>>NEVER
>>>>been used!!
>>>>
>>>>http://www.wholisticresearch.com/info/artshow.php3?artid=20
>>>>
>>>
>>> So what should have been used in 1830, Jan? Polyurethane? Depleted
>>> uranium? Wood? Mild steel? Gutta percha? Solder? Ammonium nitrate?
>>>
>>> Suggestions, please, not just dismissal of one alternative.
>>> --
>>> Peter Bowditch
>>
>>NOT mercury!!!!!!!
>
> I asked for a suggestion.
Frankly, I could care less what you asked for.
A "not" is not a suggestion. What you said
> made as much sense as saying that your suggestion of what to use is
> "not seaweed", "not testosterone", "not petrified wood", "not George W
> Bush's DNA", "not Las Vegas casino chips", "not the headlight switch
> from a Honda Civic", or "not a first folio edition of Shakespeare".
>
> In any case, nobody has ever suggested using mercury as a restorative
> material for teeth. It is a liquid at body temperature (despite what
> some anti-mercury loons say), so it would run out if you tilted your
> head. How you would use it to fill top teeth is a mystery.
>
> There is an infinite number of things which would not be suggested.
> Please tell us what you would suggest.
NO.
>
>>
>><snip proven lying websites and spam>
>
> No proof of lies, and no spam. Poor, sad Lollypoop.
Your Lies and spam have been proven on MHA.
I see, you are lying again, calling names again, as well as stalking me.
Just one example of your many LIES is proven here.
> --
> Peter Bowditch
<snip proven lying websites + spam
Clinton
>
> So, Clinton, in your own words, how did this happen to you? I know
> there are several people, including myself who'd like to know.
That's a good question because I'm still trying to figure out if
it was a bad capsule, or another normal mechanism of amalgam
breakdown.j Recently the manufacuter themselves said that certain
capsules were faulty see:
http://www.brooks.af.mil/dis/HOT/valiantphd.htm
Were
> there symptoms? Were there warning signs? You indicated that you've
> battled with this for decades. How did this manifest itself and what
> treatment did you seek?
In hindsight it is true there were warnings signs though at the time it
was difficult to realize. yes there absolutely are many symptoms,
however they are subtle and even puzzling at first and only gradually
worsen over time. The Hg victim though is only vaguely aware of what is
occuring In fact the symptoms are so numerous it is difficlut to
describe them all. Here is some history:
Around 12-14 develop strange stains on the front tooth.
At 16 during a 3 week period (which cancelled doctor checks show
was a couple weeks after a dental appiontment) I experienced
unexplained frequent urination. (In hindsight this was really the first
unequivocal sign of Hg poisoning).
At 18 my German teacher, who is more familiar with the students
because you stay in that class with the same teacher for 3 years
pulls me aside after a few missed assignements and says: Something
is really wrong. Your a good student. I responed kind of amused and
unseriously (like a typical teenager), well i'm not doing drugs and of
course I missed a few assignments which is why I didn't do well on the
test. No she ,says I dont't think your taking drugs and it's not about
missing a few assignments, something is really wrong.
(She was pretty smart because she had gotten one of those oxford type
scholarships to study languages and was in HS because it ws hard to
find jobs were you could teach languages. In retrospect this was the
first, most perceptive and the only clear warning I ever recieved from
anyone except myself about what was coming. (tragically she died in a
car accident a few years later at 40) )
Overall though I was still very healthy and mentally unaffected.
and luckily things seemed okay for a few years into college and
whatever "symptoms" I may have had from before seem to normalize,
(maybe an oxide layer temporatly builds up on the corroding filling or
something). But then symptoms did returen and things did get noticeably
worse for me at the end of my junior year. Though I thought it was just
"a repeat of what had happened before" maybe due to the stress of
approaching graduation. But I clearly seemed to become more
absent-minded/forgetful (even to myself). I felt more hassled. I seem
to develop some kind of heartburn after eating certain foods, like
chicken (which contains sulphur). the frequent unexplained urination
returns to where I get checked for diabetes. People start to treat me
with a little less respect, saying things like, well, your a member of
the honor society so you must be smart! I notice that when I watch TV
it becomes more difficult to remember what the commentator has said
for the first sentence. When I read it becomes harder to remember the
information at the beginning of the sentence for long sentences.
Especailly long sentences.
For example
the sentence:
Given the weigted average of the two systems and the
the statisticall average, we can then employ fermov's theroem and
integrate to find the resultant vector which interestingly has
a unique value for all systems.
By the time I read the word "unique" I have forgotten everyting before
the first comma!
I gain a substaintal amount of weight for a brief period, but then
mysteriously when it goes back down in my senior
year my cholestorel is still high (which in hindsight is a natural
reaction to heavy metals). In techincal writing I seem to struggle to
find the right words and what I write is uncharacteristcally bland. I
seem to have more trouble analyzing the grammer which is strange
because I good always do that before (and my roomate has no trouble)
While compared to the peers in my class before I was doing very well
know my relative grades start to slide. I actually get D's on a few
tests, almost fail one badly even miscalculating the time I had by 20
minutes. When before I was good at chess I struggle to beat people I
could easily beat before. I have trouble
getting a high score on Tetris. It's like I'm not moving or thinking
fast enough to get to the highest level! I actually fail an
analytical/memory based standardized test my senior year in contrast to
the other sections leaving one puzzled teacher to ask if I had gotten
out of step ( by mismatching
the answers with the question numbers)because everyhone who did good
on the other sections before always did well on that section!
At this point as I said suspicious of either diabetes or even some
toxic effect I get tested for lead, since my dad used it a lot
and checked for diabetes. both come back negative, but one blood
test is curious in addition the the cholesterol, my A/G ratio is
elevated (which can be a sign of kidney function changes such as from
Hg). The day of graduation I am so out of it I actually walk
right into a clear plastic wall I didn't see in one of the dorms,
leaving some of the amused parents to wonder why graduates are walking
into walls!
Soon after College in graduate school i become very exhausted and my
memory worsens. Forget demanind analytical/memroy tests (actually along
with spatical tests and coordiantion tests one of the most sensitive
indicators of Hg poisoning) , Now looking at the verbal section of a
test I did a year ago I have apparent trouble remembering the whole
passage, leading me to think that "It was lucky I took that test last
year". How niave of me! the frequent urination (probably due to build
of
Hg in the pituary which regulates kidney concentration) becomes
very bad, but another trip to the doctor and no explanation, though a
thyroid test (done at my insistence) mysteriosly shows low thyroid even
though funtion, based on a psa seems "normal". I become more depressed.
My performance on tests becomes medicore
especailly compared to "peers" in Graduate school who I had done
a lot better than as undergraduates. Not because of school because I am
still doing okay but in general, but for some reason I start to read
books about suicide (which is really out of character for me, since I
inherited what you would call "happy genes" from my parents. I even by
a copy of 'final exit'. Realizing I am very tired (and thinking I am
burned out and
'need a break' since I went directly to grad school),I try to cut
course load and one puzzled professor asks if school is just a hobby
becaue from before and your test scores we know you can do the work.
They agree to cut my course load thought. Still thinking I am "burned
out/exhausted" and not sure why I feel so crappy ( i actually remark to
my parents i feel like total shit and like "an old man", and with a
worsening memory i leave graduate school.
(Myself actually. I was never forced to leave)
I then get a job as a cashier but by then there are personality changes
too at this point from the Hg, which (in hindsight) uncharactersitcally
for me causes me to argue more with the Boss than should be (like a
hatter) or not take orders well.
(At this stage in hindsight clear changes in persoanlity are occuring
from Hg in how I relate to others. This is a total reveral from just 6
years earilier where I would take direction very well and people would
say things to me like. Clinton. you always know just the right thing to
say. Or , that was a good excuse you gave to the Boss. "i forget what
you said but it
sounded good.")
Anyway,
On the checkout lines they test your overall efficeny, because the
scanner is hooked up to a computer. Slowing down physically from the
Hg, my Boss calls me into the office one day and says, your PLU
(efficeny) is the lowest here! That seems odd I say, I was actually one
of the faster workers 6 years before at a Pizza restuarnt. No ,she
says, your PLU was the slowest in THE HISTORY OF THE STORE!
However all this would pale to what would come next...to be continued
LadyLollipop
together, it is hard to tell what it happening to you, hard to describe,
words seems so vague. You think, what on earth is happening to me? It
happened to you at a much younger age, than me, than is even worse. What is
so bad, is no one knows what to look for. Don't stress yourself in trying to
describe it, in the end, you will most likely be made fun of.
Thanks you for your efforts. I wish you luck if you continue.
AND
I will be VERY UPSET if the dentists here, or anyone makes fun in any
manner.
PLEASE, PLEASE, be respectful and DO NOT DO THAT
ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Clinton" <clin...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:1126933364.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Joel M. Eichen
>billkatz wrote:
>
>>
>> So, Clinton, in your own words, how did this happen to you? I know
>> there are several people, including myself who'd like to know.
>
>That's a good question because I'm still trying to figure out if
>it was a bad capsule, or another normal mechanism of amalgam
>breakdown.j Recently the manufacuter themselves said that certain
>capsules were faulty see:
REPLY
I heard there have been reports of near death due to
bad capsules. What do you think?
Joel
LadyLollipop
"Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5lini1hf6p7bnfoau...@4ax.com...
I think, you should shut up, real fast.
I don't think you should need to be told twice.
Got that, Joel?
>
>>
>>http://www.brooks.af.mil/dis/HOT/valiantphd.htm
>>
>
Clinton
Actually I heard some bad capsules even leaked vapor into the office
and that some dentists got it from the capsules so they sued
the manufacturer themselves. But regardless of the obvious fact
that poorly mixed capsules and bad equipment is sometimes used, amalgam
itself is also an inherently unstable material. The point
I was making before is that I hope it isn't a bad capsule (I'm still
considering sueing the practice) because that would be even more
sensless (though a easier to prove in court). Actually I still have
to get my records and a statemenent for mthe dentist who removed
the amalam in CA becaue I wasn't savy enough to get that or save
the capsule when i had the amalgam removed, though the dentist
indiated the amalgma was bad and had a tremendous amount of decay
above it.
I'd also challenge Joel to point to one clincal study of long term
stability of Valiant Phd. The longest I could find was someting like
2 years in a small sample, yet this "proves" safety!
Clinton
LadyLollipop wrote:
> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5lini1hf6p7bnfoau...@4ax.com...
> > On 16 Sep 2005 22:02:44 -0700, "Clinton" <clin...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> >
> >>billkatz wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> So, Clinton, in your own words, how did this happen to you? I > >
> >
> > I heard there have been reports of near death due to
> > bad capsules. What do you think?
> >
> > Joel
>
> I think, you should shut up, real fast.
>
> I don't think you should need to be told twice.
>
> Got that, Joel?
Too bad being from Philly Joel doesn't employ the wise ways of
his towns most famous personality. Benjamin Franklin.
Clinton
Clinton wrote:
>
> Too bad being from Philly Joel doesn't employ the wise ways of
> his towns most famous personality. Benjamin Franklin.
What Franklin might say:
"There are lazy minds as well as lazy bodies"
"A lie stands on one foot, but the truth stands on two"
"The doors of wisdom are never shut"
or perhaps
"An empty bag cannot stand upright"
Joel M. Eichen
REPLY
Thank you kind Sir!
Joel M. Eichen
>I'd also challenge Joel to point to one clincal study of long term
>stability of Valiant Phd. The longest I could find was someting like
>2 years in a small sample, yet this "proves" safety!
Sorry my friend, I have no interest in this topic or
in proving anything. I am reading it to see what you
have to say.
Joel
Clinton
Well, the story contiues as follows:
Hg poisoned Part 2!
my last post covers the effects of Hg pretty well from the mid
80's to 90's.
So I was suddenly working as a cashier after having a promising
career in science and even doing poorly! How could this be! but what
was also amazing (in hindsight) was my difficultyt with making change
or let's say simple change world problems. A few years before I had
been getting A's in calculus. However, the mind always covers up it's
weakness. thus the victim is really the biggest fool of all.
So I left that job which was dead ended anyway (actually I was fired)
and decided what I needed was a change. Actually I thought vaguely if I
was going to get sicker, or whatever was going on persitsted I might
as well travel a little to shake things up. so I moved to California.
There I did find jobs in Engineering but the symptoms I described
persisted and gradually worsened. Also there were a string of incidents
which illustrate how Hg causes rage and were very out of
character.
1. One time in the Laundry room in my apartment complex, someone
removed my clothes from the dryer, before i got there. I became
very angry and even threatened to call the manager, going into
a two minute tirade! They were nonplussed!
2. One time at a gas station someone was filling up the gas
with thier car running. I started yelling at the person, saying
why don't you cut the engine. The station manager actually tried to
calm me down a little when I complained while paying my gas bill in the
office..
3. I got into an unusal number of arguments with telemarketers,
door to door salespeople and even confrontations with people
standing on the street.
4. At work one time someone saw one of my Faxes, with some wording
they didn't like (a curt response to an obnoxious sales rep) and
they took it to the boss. Actaully they had no business looking
through everyone elses faxes and claimed they "read it by accident". I
remember getting really angry at this person and chewing them out for
like 10 minutes in front of everyone in the office. I also at the time
had difficulty making good judgement about the ethics of the situation.
In retrospect Hg was affecting
my ability to think clearly and quicly, to make situational judgements
and was causing my anger to get out of control. luckily
under "normal circumstances" I am a very calm person, so people thought
I was just a bit of a hot head, but if my true nature had
been to get angry , with the addedd effect of the Hg I don't know
what would have happened
Apparently the Hg also effects coordiantion. On one incidence where
I had to rent a car ( actaully on another job just before I got to
CA) the person I was driving with asked if I had been driving that
long. yes I responded for quite a while. Why do you ask?
In California one time I was soldering something in the manufacturing
section for a project. One of the Employees came over, and commented,
when you solder YOUR hands are shaking! That's crazy I thought! Not
more than anybody elses would.
Well the symptoms continued (whatever they were) and I also noticed
that I was starting to get a little shyier or more self-consious. Ater
a while I really noticed that myself even in the state I was in. And
the frequent urination, sometimes over 30 times a day. It hadn't let up
since college and continued, even though i had tried
every treatement i could think of.
What really got me though was that some of the symptoms seemed
to get worse after I ate certain foods like spaghetti. What could
it be I thought/ food allergy, I had considered cotten or polyester
or even nutrasweet allergy before. (several years before I had also
tried a whole array of vitamens and supplements like chloine in case i
had a nutritional deficincy. With no effect.normally i didn't try
anything other than what I bought at the grocery store). Maybe it was
the cholrine or fluoride in the water! At this point it was 97 about 5
years after the beggining of significant symptoms!
I tried making some water without fluoride or chloride. Okay i left
it open in the refrigerator where i read it would evaporate off on
the internet. bizzarley it did seem to have a slight effect on the
symptoms as opposed to ordinary water, but that really threw me
because why would the TYPE of water or what I ate have any effect.
So Then that day i sat down I considered what I knew. Because it isn't
WHAT you know the matters. The MOST powerful form or reasoning is
deduction. It's what you can eleminate that counts!.
And what remains no matter how "unlikely" that is the truth!
It wasn't cancer, or I would be dead, it seemed related to thyroid by
it wasn't a primary thyroid problem.
I had moved across the country so it couldn't be the environemtn.
It could'nt be stress form school or job, since I was working and
had graduated. And WATER has an effect. Then I realized in a split
second what was happening..it wasn't what I was drinking or eating
or what was in my environment, it wasn't "stress or an allergic
reation" it was what ws IN my mouth. And the only thing there was a
filling. MY GOD, it was the filling!
But what was in a filling? Steel, Nickel. It looked solid but I
supposed some kind of metal could come off it, and certainly some
metals could caused allergic reactions.
All this had occured without the help of doctors, whose tests had
all been inconclusve or negative and I had never even heard of
the Amalgam controversy, so then that day in 97 I went to the internet
to see what was in those fillings....
Well, I soon discovered they were not fillings, they were "amalgams".
So I looked up amalgam. What I saw in one instant fit all the puzzle
pieces of nearly 5 years of suffering together at once. The 'amalgams'
as they called them actually contained almost 50% Hg , one of the most
deadly toxins known! Immediately i made an appointment to see the
doctor and dentist!
to be continued...........
Peter Bowditch
I know that. I just wanted to illustrate your inability to talk
sensibly about amalgam.
>
>
> A "not" is not a suggestion. What you said
>> made as much sense as saying that your suggestion of what to use is
>> "not seaweed", "not testosterone", "not petrified wood", "not George W
>> Bush's DNA", "not Las Vegas casino chips", "not the headlight switch
>> from a Honda Civic", or "not a first folio edition of Shakespeare".
>>
>> In any case, nobody has ever suggested using mercury as a restorative
>> material for teeth. It is a liquid at body temperature (despite what
>> some anti-mercury loons say), so it would run out if you tilted your
>> head. How you would use it to fill top teeth is a mystery.
>>
>> There is an infinite number of things which would not be suggested.
>> Please tell us what you would suggest.
>
>NO.
So you have no suggestion of an alternative to amalgam which would
have been available in 1830, or 1930, or ...
I thought not.
>>
>>>
>>><snip proven lying websites and spam>
>>
>> No proof of lies, and no spam. Poor, sad Lollypoop.
>
>Your Lies and spam have been proven on MHA.
>
>I see, you are lying again, calling names again, as well as stalking me.
>
>Just one example of your many LIES is proven here.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/bfy38
There are no lies there. If you think that there are, please list
them.
>
>> --
>> Peter Bowditch
>
><snip proven lying websites + spam
>
Clinton
Clinton wrote:
> Immediately i made an appointment to see the
> doctor and dentist!
>
> to be continued...........
Hg poisoned! Part 3
So get into the doctors office and I tell this long story. Finally
I conclude. I think it is the filling because the symptoms fit.
"That absolutely cannot be the case!". Replied the doctor.
"Well why I asked?" "Fillings do not contain Hg!" he replies.
"Then what do they contain?" "I don't know he said but
it is NOT Hg!"
Well, I said, I want to get tested anyway. So he said Ok,
but why not test for everything if you are suspicous maybe
its something else. We'lltest for Hg, Copper and a whole bunch
of other metals.
Unfortunatley he did not order a urine test, the most accurate marker
or a challenge test (which would be dangerous anyway). So I forget what
the levels of Hg were which wouldn't account for methyl Hg but they
were supposedly normal. However, the levels of copper in the blood came
back high, measured twice! I understood immediately that the test may
have difficulty measuring the Hg burden but that the copper was comming
off the filling ( a high copper non-gamma 2)
So actually previously I had gone to the dentist to make an
appiontement
to get my fillig removed no matter what the doctor had said. he says
I need an x-ray. He looks at the x-ray and says, your filling looks
fine. I.E no decay. Well I go, I think there may be a problem with Hg
I want it replaced anyway. So I actually forgot what he said but he's
proably like, if you like the look of composite better that is ok with
me.
So after a couple weeks I go into the dentists office. Great I think.
If it is the filling and i get it removed I could be cured in a few
weeks! So we set up to replace some filling. He wants to do a small
one first but I am only interested in two particular old fillings
because
they are bigger, and I remember that they are the only fillings placed
before the symptoms started. No i said, do these two!
So he goes in, and he' drilling and his assistant is leaning over, and
I'm thinking, this guy seems to work faster than my other dentist. Well
they drill it out and are doing all the water cooling and suction i
told
them too ( i didn't ask for a mask) and his assistant leans over again
and her eyes kind of pop out a little. Then the guy does some more work
for a while and says okay sit up. Well I said okay we're taking a break
becaue my other dentist never finished that quick! No he says it over.
"There was a tremendous amount of decay above one filling and it had
gotten to the root which he treated with something to prevent it from
dying." " Insuarnce he say's is going to pay for replacing THAT
filling.
YOu won't have to pay for it!" Gee I guess i must be psychic how did
I know there was problem with that filling!
So I leave the office actaully with some amalgams still in figuring
that if these were the problems one I could recover in a couple weeks.
But will I recover in he next few weeks, or the next year or the next
few years.
TBC.......
LadyLollipop
Yes, I can see you are stalking me and coming here to LIE, since I have said
PLENTLY, sensibly, over the years about amalgams.
>>
>> A "not" is not a suggestion. What you said
>>> made as much sense as saying that your suggestion of what to use is
>>> "not seaweed", "not testosterone", "not petrified wood", "not George W
>>> Bush's DNA", "not Las Vegas casino chips", "not the headlight switch
>>> from a Honda Civic", or "not a first folio edition of Shakespeare".
>>>
>>> In any case, nobody has ever suggested using mercury as a restorative
>>> material for teeth. It is a liquid at body temperature (despite what
>>> some anti-mercury loons say), so it would run out if you tilted your
>>> head. How you would use it to fill top teeth is a mystery.
>>>
>>> There is an infinite number of things which would not be suggested.
>>> Please tell us what you would suggest.
>>
>>NO.
>
> So you have no suggestion of an alternative to amalgam which would
> have been available in 1830, or 1930, or ...
>
> I thought not.
I could care less what you think.
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>><snip proven lying websites and spam>
>>>
>>> No proof of lies, and no spam. Poor, sad Lollypoop.
>>
>>Your Lies and spam have been proven on MHA.
>>
>>I see, you are lying again, calling names again, as well as stalking me.
>>
>>Just one example of your many LIES is proven here.
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/bfy38
>
> There are no lies there.
Satan causes people to lie whenever he can.
Genesis 27:19-20, 24. Jacob had to lie again to cover up his first lie
If you think that there are, please list
> them.
They are clearly listed, in the URL above.
They have been listed over and over, YOU never could show proof of your
claims.
You are in FACT a proven liar.
No need to bring this group into you lying mess over on MHA.
However since you asked.
Now, I suggest, you stop stalking and lying further.
Clinton
Clinton wrote:
> Clinton wrote:
> > Immediately i made an appointment to see the
> > doctor and dentist!
> >
> > to be continued...........
>
>
> Hg poisoned! Part 3
> that if these were the problems one I could recover in a couple weeks.
>
> But will I recover in he next few weeks, or the next year or the next
> few years.
>
> TBC.......
Amalgam nightmare part 4.
Well, in fact soon after the appointment, probably within
one or two days I did feel some positive affect. Let's say I
could tell that something having a negative affect was removed.
However, basically all the mental symptoms persisted as well
as the physical symptoms. After about 2 weeks though i could
tell there was definitely some tangible positive affect.
After about a month there was definitely some improvement, enough
for me to realize that I was correct to remove the filling.
For example I was able to finish the word jumbles in the paper
quicker. However, the majority of the effects still remained, and I
began to realize how deep in the hole I really was. I.E. how bad it
really was. My idea that I would recover in a few weeks or months to my
pre-poisoned self was unrealistic.
Over the course of a year I definitely made improvement, and
slowly, in linear fashion the frequent urination went down
to the point where after about 14 months it was back to normal.
( Since that time I never had a recurrence of that symptom)
That also made it obvious to me that the amalgam was the cause,
(apparently Hg buildup in the pituitary affects the water concentration
of the kidenys by affecting the dieuretic hormone, causing the
problem.) So finally that medical mystery was solved.
Thank God.
But a lot of the Hg effects persisted. I.E the neurological
affects
Also the recovery is very cyclical where, you feel better for
a few hours or a day, then worse, and then better.
Even though, overall though you improve so that you when you feel the
best it is better than you previous best.
This went on for another 2 years and basically I made some improvement,
but it was much less than I had hoped, maybe
about 20-40%, and in some areas, like spatical reasoning I
was still severly affected even though there was improvement.
I became very upset, even more than before, because I had improved
enough to realize that the filling was the cause, but I was still
poisoned enough to make me think I would never recover. This was
more upset than i had been before, when I had been in a niave
hg posioned trance.
i also kept my other few amalgams in during this time because
I was sure that the ones i had removed had been the "problem
fillings" and I didn't want to expose myself to more hg while
there was constant measurable improvement, which there was, even
as slow as it was. So even at that point i realized that normally
amalgam givess off (significant but small amounts of Hg) and didn't
expect that the other fillings would have a big affect if removed
since they weren't the "problem fillings" put in before my symptoms
started.
(Interestingly i ws in the Bay area during this time. And 1) it
turns out that San Jose has a large Hg mine and they would run
articles about hg in the bay and hg mining regularly in the
SAn JOse mercury news. Also I new that my prevous dentist had
disappeared but I didn't know where too. It turns out he was
a short distance away, in SF dying of Aids (which I didn't know). IN my
Hg poisoned state, if i had known that he was in SF, I could have
easily taken the train into SF to confront him. Who knows what would
have happened or what my reaction would have been.)
So now, During this time I also became aware that something else have
been going on. In fact I had develped a jaw infection which had entered
the sinus near where the filling was installed and extending throuth
the jaw. The dentist who removed the filling was not aware of this
because only a CT scan could show this and his
work was limited to the tooth. (I.E. he couldn't see the jaw
and the sinus). This caused me to not feel that good in the bay area
where the airquality is poor and I noticed the difference when I drove
downto SAnta Cruz or visited the east coast.
So realizing that I was Hg poisoned, and felt better in fresh air.
(for all i knew maybe fresher air helped to detoxify) i moved back
to the EAST Coast.
to make a long story short then, when I got back I did continue
to improve and had the other amalgams removed too (apparently some
of the had nasty decay under them too). I finally went over
to the old dentists office (the office where my dentists records
where stored by the the person who bought his practice). Amazingly
my records had been removed nearly 6 years before while my sisters
and mothers were there. Did the dentist "know" he had messed up.
Also another dentiststold me this story about how my dentist had gotten
into a fight with his associate, nobody new where he was , he had to
be locked out of the practice and one of his holdover employess fired.
When i contacted his old associate his simply said
that "they had left on bad terms".
My jaw infection got worse to the point where I had a (mainstream) OS
do surgery but apparently the bone was soft and the bone was infected.
When he extracted a tooth without cleaning it out he
spread the infection. So then I got very sick after about six months
because the of this hidden infection spreading. (This really wasn't
his fault because the bone had been damaged and set up for infection by
the large amount of hg leaking from the filling). i am still sick from
it and getting treatment and as SB can attest there is a lot of damage
to the jaw. I did make a lot of improvement in Hg symptomology howener
when another OS cleaned out a huge pockedt of bacteria (probably laced
with Hg) near the first filling ot where after about a year I am the
best mentally I have been in about 17 years. But now because the jaw
infection is chronic and diffictult to treat, that may end up being the
worst damage from the hg.
End of story
LadyLollipop
Wow, and thank you, Clinton for taking the time for telling us your story.
At this time. let me say. I had surgery on my neck, last Jan. Several spurs
were removed, however the pain is now back, they say there are no more
spurs, it appears there is arthritis in the neck, but I do not have it
anywhere else, that's very strange, and the pain is only on the one side,
where I had the cavitation cleaned. So, I am not all together convinced it
is all arthritis. Perhaps that jaw bone has been damaged? At any rate, I am
seeing a neurologist. I had a nerve block that did not work. What is next? I
do not know.
Like you, I get very sick and tired of all the excuses and jokes, after all
we have suffered.
Thanks, again, Clinton.
Best to you,
Jan
Clinton
There are a lot of cases where people with amalgam problems
have developed infection in the jaw nearby. In fact I understand in
many cases the amalgam residue is embedded in the jaw when the amalgam
is removed. The thing is, that normally the jaw is pretty good at
containing infection, but Hg seems to have the ability to damage the
bone and bypass the jaws defenses letting the infection in (when it
really leaks out of the filling in large amounts). Now I know many
people who have jaw infections of the ostemyletic/osteonectrotic type
(most not attributed to amalgam though a few are) who THEN develop
systematic problems and feel the infection once established in the jaw
can spread to other bones/joints, even if the areas of jaw infection
are scraped out because it is very difficult to get all the infectin
and it tends to recur. Antioboitic treatment can then be beneficial.
LadyLollipop
I hear you. Blood work shows no sign of infection, that's the problem,
however, I have a very understanding young doctor who will listen to me, so
I will indeed run this by him again and see what he thinks at this point.
Thanks,
Clinton
>
Clinton
> > are scraped out because it is very difficult to get all the infectin
> > and it tends to recur. Antioboitic treatment can then be beneficial.
>
> I hear you. Blood work shows no sign of infection, that's the problem,
> however, I have a very understanding young doctor who will listen to me, so
> I will indeed run this by him again and see what he thinks at this point.
Actually this problem is discussed on the OM lists a lot.
Some infections located in the jaw and sinus actually create biofilms
so it is notoriously hard to culture them in the blood. C-protein and
sedimenation tests also come back negative at least half time. One
reason is when the infection becomes "chronic" your
immune system stops responding. So it may be worth your time to
research this area more in depth.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Clinton
> >
W_B
>"An empty bag cannot stand upright"
How about: "an empty wagon makes a hellofalotta noise" ?
LadyLollipop
OM lists??
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Clinton
>> >
>
Robert Morien
"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> "Clinton" <clin...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:1127170950.9...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > LadyLollipop wrote:
> >> "Clinton" <clin...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> >> news:1127116662.9...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >> > are scraped out because it is very difficult to get all the infectin
> >> > and it tends to recur. Antioboitic treatment can then be beneficial.
> >>
> >> I hear you. Blood work shows no sign of infection, that's the problem,
> >> however, I have a very understanding young doctor who will listen to me,
> >> so
> >> I will indeed run this by him again and see what he thinks at this point.
> >
> > Actually this problem is discussed on the OM lists a lot.
> > Some infections located in the jaw and sinus actually create biofilms
> > so it is notoriously hard to culture them in the blood. C-protein and
> > sedimenation tests also come back negative at least half time. One
> > reason is when the infection becomes "chronic" your
> > immune system stops responding. So it may be worth your time to
> > research this area more in depth.
>
> OM lists??
>
>
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Clinton
> >> >
> >
to port or starboard?
Clinton
time to
> > research this area more in depth.
>
> OM lists??
Lists that deal with osteomyletis and osteonecrosis.
it is not necessary to have "osteomyletis" for the list
to be relevant because jaw bone infections are discussed
in general.
The main problem is that many types
of chronic bone infection are not easy to diagnose with imaging
or blood studies and some feel the effects may become systemic. One of
the forums is:
LadyLollipop
Thanks again, Clinton,
Jan
>