Chung lies about his Admitting Privledges
James
AMA - They have a toll free number which is 800 621 4110. If you hit
0 at the right point in the list of options you can talk to a human!
Once you get to the human here is what you will be told about
physician listing information. The AMA does verify that the person
graduated from the schools he claims to have graduated from. They
verify that he has the license he claims he has. They do NOT verify
anything about what hospitals he claims he works at or what his rights
are at those hospitals.
Further, physician information can be updated online right from the
AMA web page. Such updates of information will show in the data base
within a week as the data base is updated every week.
VA Medical Center, Atlanta - They claim to have never heard of Chung.
According to the person I talked to he has no admitting privledges. I
asked if I were a patient at that hospital if he could be the
physician in charge of my care. Answer - No. I asked if I were a
patient at that hospital if he could order tests done on me. Answer -
No. I asked if he had the right to use the hospitals equipment to do
tests on me himself. Answer - No.
Piedmont Hospital - Phone by the way is 866 605 5111 - Exact same
answer to the questions as above. No admitting privledges, can not be
in charge of the treatment of a patient in that hospital, can not
order tests in that hospital and can not run tests hismelf.
Crawford Long Hospital - Phone is 404 686 1000 - Here the answers
were somewhat different. The person I talked to was in billing. They
did not seem to want me to talk to anyone else. The second person I
talked to finally found Chung listed as a "referring physician." I
asked if this was the same as having admitting privledges and the
person seemed somewhat confused. But then I was somewhat confused
myself. I do not understand all the medical jargon and do not know
the difference between admitting rights (which Chung says no physician
has), addmitting privledges and referring physician. There are a
bunch of doctors who read this group besides Nagler so maybe one of
them can help us understand.
Regardless, Chung has lied abotu multiple things in relationship to
this issue. AMA does NOT verify the data Chung claims they verify. I
have been told this by the AMA data processing group, the AMA legal
group and the AMA web site. Three out of three is pretty solid I
think.
Chung has lied to us about his rights at both Piedmont and the VA
Hospital. And I can not really tell if he was truthfull about
Crawford Long or not. Now, I suppose it just might be possible that
one of the people I talked to gave me incorrect information. But I
tried to ask some very careful questions. And the people I talked to
at the first two hospitals were emphatic. In fact the answers came so
fast and with such force I suspected they had heard the questions
before. So perhaps someone else on the group called them before I did
today?
Chung claims to have accepted jesus. Yet he lies! Jesus did not tell
us to lie. He told us to tell teh truth. I do not think Chung has
accepted jesus at all. I think he has some delusions of becoming a
David Koresch with all the chicks following him arround. And from one
persons posts it looks to me like he has already hooked his first
chick with his jesus line. Personally, I think this guy is much less
of a christian then I am based on his lies.
By the way, do not anyone take this post as an endorsment of Nagler.
For all I know he should have been named Nagliar. He may be the most
incompetent doctor in the state of GA for all I know. But guess what.
Nagler is not the subject under test here. Chung is. So rocks about
Nagler belong in a different thread. Or maybe even a different
newsgroup.
It would seem that Chung should change the data in his AMA listing and
we should all see the change in about a week. Anyone want to take
bets?
Chungs reaction is predictable. He will claim I did not make the
calls and am making this stuff all up. That is what he always does.
liaM
The significant fact is that Andrew is a bona fide doctor
recognized by the AMA. Balance that fact against the neurotic
behavior of certain of his attackers.
In the event, I have a beautiful padded cell for Stephen Nadler,
which shields me from his strident ravings : my newsreader's
killfile.
I recommend the use of the same for anyone of good sense
on this newsgroup !
liaM
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Ok folks, I called the AMA and the hospitals. Here is the story.
>
> AMA - They have a toll free number which is 800 621 4110. If you hit
> 0 at the right point in the list of options you can talk to a human!
> Once you get to the human here is what you will be told about
> physician listing information. The AMA does verify that the person
> graduated from the schools he claims to have graduated from. They
> verify that he has the license he claims he has. They do NOT verify
> anything about what hospitals he claims he works at or what his rights
> are at those hospitals.
>
In truth, they do.
>
> Further, physician information can be updated online right from the
> AMA web page. Such updates of information will show in the data base
> within a week as the data base is updated every week.
>
In truth, such updates are subject to authentication and/or review.
>
> VA Medical Center, Atlanta - They claim to have never heard of Chung.
> According to the person I talked to he has no admitting privledges. I
> asked if I were a patient at that hospital if he could be the
> physician in charge of my care. Answer - No. I asked if I were a
> patient at that hospital if he could order tests done on me. Answer -
> No. I asked if he had the right to use the hospitals equipment to do
> tests on me himself. Answer - No.
>
They will respond to phone queries as they have been instructed.
>
> Piedmont Hospital - Phone by the way is 866 605 5111 - Exact same
> answer to the questions as above. No admitting privledges, can not be
> in charge of the treatment of a patient in that hospital, can not
> order tests in that hospital and can not run tests hismelf.
>
They will respond to phone queries as they have been instructed.
>
> Crawford Long Hospital - Phone is 404 686 1000 - Here the answers
> were somewhat different. The person I talked to was in billing. They
> did not seem to want me to talk to anyone else. The second person I
> talked to finally found Chung listed as a "referring physician." I
> asked if this was the same as having admitting privledges and the
> person seemed somewhat confused. But then I was somewhat confused
> myself. I do not understand all the medical jargon and do not know
> the difference between admitting rights (which Chung says no physician
> has), addmitting privledges and referring physician. There are a
> bunch of doctors who read this group besides Nagler so maybe one of
> them can help us understand.
>
> Regardless, Chung has lied abotu multiple things in relationship to
> this issue.
I continue to write truthfully.
> AMA does NOT verify the data Chung claims they verify.
Sorry, but the AMA does.
> I
> have been told this by the AMA data processing group,the AMA legal
> group and the AMA web site. Three out of three is pretty solid I
> think.
Not that I know who you talked to (or that you even did) but the web site
clearly says something else. Sorry.
> Chung has lied to us about his rights at both Piedmont and the VA
> Hospital.
Hardly.
> And I can not really tell if he was truthfull about
> Crawford Long or not. Now, I suppose it just might be possible that
> one of the people I talked to gave me incorrect information. But I
> tried to ask some very careful questions. And the people I talked to
> at the first two hospitals were emphatic. In fact the answers came so
> fast and with such force I suspected they had heard the questions
> before.
Yes, they have been instructed beforehand.
> So perhaps someone else on the group called them before I did
> today?
They have been handling this matter for some time.
> Chung claims to have accepted jesus.
That would be more than a claim. I am walking with Him.
> Yet he lies!
I remain truthful.
> Jesus did not tell
> us to lie. He told us to tell teh truth.
Jesus *is* the truth.
> I do not think Chung has
> accepted jesus at all.
That is your choice.
> I think he has some delusions of becoming a
> David Koresch with all the chicks following him arround.
Why do you feel that you are a chick?
> And from one
> persons posts it looks to me like he has already hooked his first
> chick with his jesus line. Personally, I think this guy is much less
> of a christian then I am based on his lies.
>
You do seem obsessed. Did you not like the truth about running on a
treadmill?
>
> By the way, do not anyone take this post as an endorsment of Nagler.
> For all I know he should have been named Nagliar. He may be the most
> incompetent doctor in the state of GA for all I know. But guess what.
> Nagler is not the subject under test here. Chung is. So rocks about
> Nagler belong in a different thread. Or maybe even a different
> newsgroup.
Until Stephen chimes in, which he has a tendency to do as another chick
like you.
>
>
> It would seem that Chung should change the data in his AMA listing and
> we should all see the change in about a week. Anyone want to take
> bets?
>
Be my guest.
>
> Chungs reaction is predictable. He will claim I did not make the
> calls and am making this stuff all up. That is what he always does.
You remain consistent (consistently wrong).
You also remain in my prayers, neighbor.
May you accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that
you too will be able to discern the truth.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557
What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J2DB148A7
Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
George
>
>Chungs reaction is predictable. He will claim I did not make the
>calls and am making this stuff all up. That is what he always does.
Read his posts in the original thread begun yesterday. He claims that
he has instructed the institutionsin question to tell people he does
not have admitting privileges, while still claiming that the AMA
confirms admitting privileges listed in their database.
These are direct quotes from Dr. Chung today:
>The staffs are answering as they have been instructed.
>The AMA record is fine.
Question posed to Dr. Chung by listener@nospam
Are you saying the staff have been instructed to lie!?
>No.
Who instructed them to lie?
>The instructions that they receive are from their employers.
In reference to Tiger Lilly not wanting to call the hospitals
>I believe she wants you to. She got in trouble the last time she tried
>stalking me.
>There is more going on here than meets the eye.
There appears to be no further need for clarification. According to
the good Doctor, the employers (hospitals) are instructing their
employees to deny Dr. Chung has privileges at the 3 hospitals listed
in his AMA profile (when he implies that in fact he does have
privileges), there is more here than meets the eye, and don't push
this too far or you will get in trouble.
Am I now the next Dr. Chung stalker to get a knock on the door by the
police? I am a stalker for encouraging people to verify your
credentials as listed with the AMA?
One more point. Last week I asked the question why not one of his
patients that he treats in his office practice has ever posted a note
of support in the newsgroups and forums that he is nearly always under
attack in.
His answer was that they do not want to become stalking victims. Not
one of his patients has the courage to defend his reputation or
endorse his credentials/professionalism for fear of Tiger Lilly and
Dr. Nagler?
As long as the questions pertaining to his reputation remain
unresolved anyone who takes this man's advice and uses it to manage
their (or their loved ones) health care must really be desperate.
Personally, I feel the questions have been answered.
One more thing.
I spent a few minutes Googling both Dr. Nagler and Dr. Andrew B.Chung
to see what could be gathered. Dr. Nagler's search came back with
hundreds of hits from newspapers (Boston Globe) national television
appearances, The American Tinnitus Association (ATA) and many others.
I also downloaded 3 months of headers from the alt.support.tittinus
newsgroup where he seems highly regarded. In fact most of the
followers of that group have stated in the group that they have
killfiled Terri. He (Dr. Nagler) states that there are 3 or 4 others
with an ax to grind with him although there are no details as to what
the problems may be.
For Dr. Chung the only hits I get are from newsgroup and forum
postings and his webpage. There was 1 reference to his co-authoring a
paper in 2000 with 10 other doctors from Emory and a fellowship grant
project in 1996. No other attributed publications (that I could find)
or references other than newsgroups and forums. There are numerous
posting to cycling forums (medical related and argumentative just like
here) and many others you will find easily. I suggest that if you
google other doctors you know personally you will find quite a
different profile of their activities, publications and body of work.
Use your own judgement as to what this may imply.
Please post more legitimate references for Dr. Chung and more
disparaging ones for Dr. Nagler as I did not spend more than about 15
minutes poking around. If I missed things I would welcome that it be
pointed out. I know neither doctor nor do I care one or the other. I
just want some truth to emerge from this exercise and maybe then we
can get this group back on track.
Tiger Lily
"George" <som...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:46kq801vkvrht6lmp...@4ax.com...
>
> These are direct quotes from Dr. Chung today:
> In reference to Tiger Lilly not wanting to call the hospitals
> >I believe she wants you to. She got in trouble the last time she tried
> >stalking me.
bwha ha ha ha
Chung put up a RIP page for me because i dared to ask him how does his diet
compare to the Harvard Food Pyramid
go ahead Andie...... show people where i have stalked you
hint: replying to a newsgroup message is NOT stalking, or YOU certainly are
very gulity of THAT....... i think YOU are the one who likes to cross post
all messages???
tell us oh Andie..... holder of the truth discernment ray?!! do tell us
>
> >There is more going on here than meets the eye.
>
>
> There appears to be no further need for clarification. According to
> the good Doctor, the employers (hospitals) are instructing their
> employees to deny Dr. Chung has privileges at the 3 hospitals listed
> in his AMA profile (when he implies that in fact he does have
> privileges), there is more here than meets the eye, and don't push
> this too far or you will get in trouble.
you got the implication George.... now watch Andie twist out of it, and tell
you that you just need to accept Jesus as your saviour, and that "truth does
not hurt the truthful"
>
> Am I now the next Dr. Chung stalker to get a knock on the door by the
> police? I am a stalker for encouraging people to verify your
> credentials as listed with the AMA?
as i am for posting the information of how to contact these same hospitals
>
> One more point. Last week I asked the question why not one of his
> patients that he treats in his office practice has ever posted a note
> of support in the newsgroups and forums that he is nearly always under
> attack in.
>
> His answer was that they do not want to become stalking victims. Not
> one of his patients has the courage to defend his reputation or
> endorse his credentials/professionalism for fear of Tiger Lilly and
> Dr. Nagler?
oh.... and i'm scary...... i ask questions...... wow!
>
> As long as the questions pertaining to his reputation remain
> unresolved anyone who takes this man's advice and uses it to manage
> their (or their loved ones) health care must really be desperate.
>
> Personally, I feel the questions have been answered.
yup..... the questions sure have been answered..... and each person who
reads has the opportunity to make/draw their own conclusions
interesting that you found this sort of information........ lets one sit
back and think for a while...... i mean, Andie certainly has shown that he
has a great propensity for writing.... just look at his daily tally on the
newsgroups
list...@nospam.net
>One more point. Last week I asked the question why not one of his
>patients that he treats in his office practice has ever posted a note
>of support in the newsgroups and forums that he is nearly always under
>attack in.
>
A long time ago (in a newsgroup far, far away...) I wondered how Dr.
Chung had time to see any patients while spending *so* much time in
this newsgroup and his website. My conclusion: he doesn't have any
patients. Maybe that explains why none have come to his defence...?
He is most definitely a strange bird.
L.
Stephen Nagler
part):
>It would seem that Chung should change the data in his AMA listing and
>we should all see the change in about a week. Anyone want to take
>bets?
..............
Well, likely the information will be changed soon - but not because of
Chung.
Last week I notified the AMA that there may be errors in their
database and that they might wish to verify Chung's admitting
privileges with the hospitals he has listed.
smn
George
>Last week I notified the AMA that there may be errors in their
>database and that they might wish to verify Chung's admitting
>privileges with the hospitals he has listed.
>
>smn
Do you think that the employees will be instructed by the employers to
tell the AMA that he has no privileges when in fact he does?
Stephen Nagler
>Please post more legitimate references for Dr. Chung and more
>disparaging ones for Dr. Nagler as I did not spend more than about 15
>minutes poking around.
...........
George, there are TONS of "disparaging" posts about me.
Do a search on Larry Lix, BlueM0ZARK, or Martin - and you're bound to
find a real treasure trove. I'd give you another name - but the last
time I mentioned it on the Internet the guy started calling me at home
in the middle of the night wioth threats - so I'm not going to do it.
And you'll find a lot of stuff I wrote that is quoted but twisted and
taken out of context. Trust me - there's plenty. And - I assure you
- over seven years there's plenty I've said that *in context* is
unflattering as well.
So I really think you need to look at the body of my own posts as a
whole if you want to get a fair look. Oh yes - I need to tell you
that I have NUKED precisely ONE of my posts - because I misspoke in
anger. So just add ONE to the "ugly list." But in the main, I think
I have made a very positive mark
This is Usenet. Something to keep in mind.
smn
Stephen Nagler
part):
>Crawford Long Hospital - Phone is 404 686 1000 - Here the answers
>were somewhat different. The person I talked to was in billing.
.............
You really need the "Medical Staff Office" - the billing folks don't
deal with that sort of thing.
....................
> They
>did not seem to want me to talk to anyone else.
....................
Call the main line and ask for the Medical Staff Office. Or call it
directly at 404-686-4411.
..............
>The second person I
>talked to finally found Chung listed as a "referring physician."
..................
That means that Chung refers patients to at least one doctor who has
admitting privileges - very different from having admitting privileges
himself. *Any* physician who refers to a physician on staff is listed
as a referring physician.
.................
>I
>asked if this was the same as having admitting privledges and the
>person seemed somewhat confused.
...............
See directly above.
....................
> But then I was somewhat confused
>myself. I do not understand all the medical jargon and do not know
>the difference between admitting rights (which Chung says no physician
>has), addmitting privledges and referring physician.
.................
You are confused because Chung is playing word games.
"Admitting rights" is a term that does not exist. That's why Chung
said no physician has them. When you referred to "admitting rights"
in an earlier post, you obviously meant "admitting privileges" - but
Chung used the opportunity to make fun of your lack of familiarity
with the terminology.
...............
>There are a
>bunch of doctors who read this group besides Nagler so maybe one of
>them can help us understand.
.................
Most doctors have been chased off by Chung over the past year or two.
But hopefully somebody will verify.
smn
George
>
>So I really think you need to look at the body of my own posts as a
>whole if you want to get a fair look. Oh yes - I need to tell you
>that I have NUKED precisely ONE of my posts - because I misspoke in
>anger. So just add ONE to the "ugly list." But in the main, I think
>I have made a very positive mark
>
>This is Usenet. Something to keep in mind.
>
>smn
Actually I was referring more to internet references that are not
usenet and forums etc. Things like published articles in scientific
journals, newspaper articles, etc. things like that. Under your name
there is quite a bit, seems legitimate and not negative.
For Dr. Chung there were 2 that I could find as I stated earlier.
My sister is a physician and there are thousands of references in her
name, journal articles, references to speaking at conferences,
articles in magazines, newspapers, etc.
I don't think she has ever posted in a forum or newsgroup. She does
not have the time, and when she is away from her practice and the
hospital the last thing she wants to think about is medicine.
terr...@knowspam.mam
>I spent a few minutes Googling both Dr. Nagler and Dr. Andrew B.Chung
>to see what could be gathered. Dr. Nagler's search came back with
>hundreds of hits from newspapers (Boston Globe) national television
>appearances, The American Tinnitus Association (ATA) and many others.
>I also downloaded 3 months of headers from the alt.support.tittinus
>newsgroup where he seems highly regarded. In fact most of the
>followers of that group have stated in the group that they have
>killfiled Terri. He (Dr. Nagler) states that there are 3 or 4 others
>with an ax to grind with him although there are no details as to what
>the problems may be.
Nagler goes back 7 years on alt.support.tinnitus. He has behaved for
the last three because otherwise he will be run off as he has been at
least 8 times that I can remember. Most of the people he abused and
tormented left in disgust long ago. In addition, he has been busy
deleting most of his offensive posts from the archives of usenet to
further mislead people about his character.
And as to his affliation with the ATA, he is an embarassment to them
and he has had to be told to stop mentioning his affiliation with the
ATA on usenet because he has given them such bad publicity.
Terri
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "George" <som...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:46kq801vkvrht6lmp...@4ax.com...
> >
> > These are direct quotes from Dr. Chung today:
>
> > In reference to Tiger Lilly not wanting to call the hospitals
> > >I believe she wants you to. She got in trouble the last time she tried
> > >stalking me.
>
> <hiss sputter hiss hiss>
You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
I believe you are confusing me with *retired* Stephen.
>
> He is most definitely a strange bird.
>
Ouch. You may have at the other cheek.
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
Here is a clip from google about Nagler representing himself as an
otolarygologist, which he is (and was) not:
----------------------------
We were told that Nagler's listing on "call-a-doctor" under
otolaryngology was an accident. Well, maybe that could be a
possibility. But in light of this other ad, is this really the case?
There is a site where Nagler is listed as doing surgery for hearing
loss. It states that Nagler is an ENT doctor."
http://www.doctorbucci.com/franklin.php?cat=OTOLOGY
Stephen Nagler MD Otology
Surgery for hearing Loss. Depending on both the
audiologic evaluation and physical examination of the
ear, further radiologic testing may be necessary. If
X-rays have been done before, a review of the films
by the ear specialist will be done during your office
visit. Be sure to let the receptionist or nurse know
that previous x-rays are available. In addition, a CT
scan or an MRI may be ordered to give more detail
about the location and extent of the ear disease. Ear
deformities, surgery, CT scan, MRI, radiologic
testing, audiologist, hearing, ear infection, hearing
tests, Ear diagnosis, ENT, Ear, Nose, Throat,
Audiometry, speech discrimination, testing, hearing
aid.
Address::SE COMPREHENSIVE TINNITUS CLNC:980
JOHNSON FERRY RD NE # 760, ATLANTA, GA, 30342,
(404)531-3940
I guess that listing got there by accident too! This is so sad to see.
First the listing in the Atlanta phone book under otolaryngology, then
the listing on call-a-doctor in Atlanta under otolaryngology, and now
we find this. Aren't there any regulations against claiming to be
something that you aren't? This like "Find Waldo." Instead, it's an
internet search game to find where Nagler is advertised in the field
of otology when he is not trained as an ear doctor and has no board
certification as such.
Am I the only one who finds this to be an outrage?
Martin Aquinas
------------------
Nagler was a colorectal surgeon until he found the short-term bundle
he could make peddling "tinnitus treatment". Either he cured everyone
and the clinic went under for lack of customers or he had to close the
clinic for some other reason he can't or won't share. The above posts
list a few places where Nagler's name was found under medical listings
for which he wasn't licensed. All were "accidents" according to him.
There are interesting circumstances around the closing of his clinic
that played out here on usenet. He used his closing his clinic as a
carrot to get one of his detractors to stop posting on usenet (as in
"I'll agree to close my clinic forever if you stop posting on
alt.support.tinnitus". Nagler would not only close his clinic but he
also agreed to not post anymore on alt.support.tinnitus.
The whole thing was a scam, of course -- Nagler made the whole thing
up. He didn't keep his word on staying off the alt.support.tinnitus
board, either, but after promising to leave 8 or more times, no one in
their right mind would think he could stay away. Do a google search
on posts authored by Nagler with the phrase "I'm leaving" and you'll
get a litany of times he promised to do so but it "didn't take".
There are many reasons stirring him up is not a good idea. Irrational
behavior is usually the end result. Sometimes he ends up hurting
himself as well as others due to his actions.
Terri
Tiger Lily
news:408D964B...@heartmdphd.com...
<hiss sputter hiss hiss>
You remain in my prayers, you shrivelled excuse for a human.
Tiger Lily
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
news:408D964B...@heartmdphd.com...
>
> > "George" <som...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > news:46kq801vkvrht6lmp...@4ax.com...
> > >
> > > These are direct quotes from Dr. Chung today:
> >
> > > In reference to Tiger Lilly not wanting to call the hospitals
> > > >I believe she wants you to. She got in trouble the last time she
tried
> > > >stalking me.
> >
> > <hiss sputter hiss hiss>
you are afraid of the truth my friend...... oh gack.... not my friend....
you have been rather nasty to me....... for simply not buying your crap 100%
provide the proof Chungie baby
or shut up
>
> You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
i am not your neighbour
>
>
> Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
yeah... right
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung
> Board-Certified
George
liaM
I'm not religious so have no trouble at all keeping that ass-hole
out of my hair !! I recommend a universally applied kill-file
for the benefit of mankind and the good administration of a highly
useful newsgroup..
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
>
>>http://www.doctorbucci.com/franklin.php?cat=OTOLOGY
>
>
>Your supplied link does not work.
The link was part of the post I quoted. The post is from about a year
ago.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> news:408D964B...@heartmdphd.com...
>
> <hiss sputter hiss hiss>
>
> You remain in my prayers,
Thanks for the prayers.
> you shrivelled excuse for a human.
Ouch. You may have at the other cheek.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> news:408D964B...@heartmdphd.com...
> > Tiger Lily wrote:
> >
> > > "George" <som...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > news:46kq801vkvrht6lmp...@4ax.com...
> > > >
> > > > These are direct quotes from Dr. Chung today:
> > >
> > > > In reference to Tiger Lilly not wanting to call the hospitals
> > > > >I believe she wants you to. She got in trouble the last time she
> tried
> > > > >stalking me.
> > >
> > > <hiss sputter hiss hiss>
>
> <hiss>
You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Stephen Nagler
wrote:
>
>>http://www.doctorbucci.com/franklin.php?cat=OTOLOGY
>
>
>Your supplied link does not work.
...............
Oh gimme a break.
Who the hell is supplying that bogus doctorbucci link here?
No, don't bother. I can figure that one out.
The link is bogus - that bucci guy went out of business as soon as his
scheme was discovered.
As I recall, he felt that since I ran a tinnitus clinic I must be an
otologist. So he listed me as one and added a generic description of
what an otologist does, a description that had nothing whatsoever to
do with what I was doing in my clinic. Bucci's plan - as I recall -
was to list stuff free for a year for ALL the docs in the region and
then to continue the listings if some sort of sponsorship fee was paid
to the site.
I raised holy hell when I saw it. I didn't ask to be listed. I
didn't want to be listed. And I sure as hell wasn't an otologist. I
notified the medical society, my attorney, bucci, and one or two
others. Lots of other docs must have done the same - because the site
went down for good a short time later.
But a couple of assholes on ast sure had a ball with it! They got a
lot of mileage out of that one.
Here are a few related posts from ast ..
>From: Stephen Nagler (nag...@tinn.com)
>Subject: Re: Nagler's many advertisements as an Otologist...sigh
>View: Complete Thread (4 articles)
>Original Format
>Newsgroups: alt.support.tinnitus
>Date: 2003-05-10 02:55:17 PST
>
>On Sat, 10 May 2003 02:11:28 -0400, Martin
><oh_brother_w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Am I the only one who finds this to be an outrage?
>
>..................
>
>No. I find it to be an outrage as well.
>
>And I will also find out how it happened, becauase I have never heard
>of Dr. Bucci, I know nothing about this site, and I most certainly did
>not place that ad.
>
>stephen nagler
AND
>From: Stephen Nagler (nag...@tinn.com)
>Subject: Re: Nagler advertises as an Otology surgeon!
>View: Complete Thread (17 articles)
>Original Format
>Newsgroups: alt.support.tinnitus
>Date: 2003-05-10 04:16:23 PST
>
>I have just sent the following e-mail to Mr. Helmut Flasch, whose name
>and e-mail address I obtained by following the links on Dr. Bucci's
>website.
>
>smn
>
>******************
>
>
>May 10, 2003
>
>Mr. Helmut Flasch
>Founder
>DoctorRelation.com
>
>Dear Mr. Flasch:
>
>The following web page has just been brought to my attention:
>
>http://www.doctorbucci.com/franklin.php?cat=OTOLOGY
>
>The site lists your company as a sponsor and presumably the source of
>information.
>
>I wish to point out to you that I am NOT an otologist, and moreover
>neither I nor my representatives ever submitted the description of
>practice next to my name - I do not do ear surgery and never did.
>Even the telephone number is wrong - it was my fax line.
>
>Please tell me how you came upon the information listed on the site.
>Please also remove it as soon as possible, and notify Dr. Bucci that
>he should do the same.
>
>Thank you for your cooperation.
>
>Stephen M. Nagler, M.D.
>nag...@tinn.com
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:42:03 -0400, George <som...@nowhere.com>
But the yellow pages listing and the call-a-doctor listing also cited
in that post were not his fault, too, were they?
Why do all these bad things only happen to you, Stephen?
Terri
George
the web page does not exist. This she claims proves her point that
Dr. Nagler is a quack.
That post of hers was the last one before I killfiled her.
Home, Home On The Mu_n
==============================
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
Home, Home On The Mu_n
amounts of time to blow, others don't.
===================================
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:07:38 GMT, George <som...@nowhere.com> wrote:
Home, Home On The Mu_n
>A long time ago (in a newsgroup far, far away...) I wondered how Dr.
>Chung had time to see any patients while spending *so* much time in
>this newsgroup and his website. My conclusion: he doesn't have any
>patients. Maybe that explains why none have come to his defence...?
Hey, listen to this.
You're a moron.
Home, Home On The Mu_n
>
>There are many reasons stirring him up is not a good idea. Irrational
>behavior is usually the end result. Sometimes he ends up hurting
>himself as well as others due to his actions.
Yes, this is true. Ask his family.
Home, Home On The Mu_n
=================================
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:55:47 GMT, Stephen Nagler <nag...@tinn.com>
wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:42:03 -0400, George <som...@nowhere.com>
Bob (this one)
> Waaay too long. PLease shorten and remove obsessive patterns.
Sorry about your attention span and all. But the information here
demonstrates, proves, confirms and makes final the evidence that Chung
is lying about his hospital admitting privileges.
Bob
Bob (this one)
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:52:17 -0400, list...@nospam.net wrote:
>
>>A long time ago (in a newsgroup far, far away...) I wondered how Dr.
>>Chung had time to see any patients while spending *so* much time in
>>this newsgroup and his website. My conclusion: he doesn't have any
>>patients. Maybe that explains why none have come to his defence...?
>
> Hey, listen to this.
>
> You're a moron.
<LOL> Back in the trailer park, I bet this is witty stuff. Note the
real questions posed and implied above and note the "answer."
Need to know anything else?
Bob
Janna
MD) just by going to the (theirs) state government website and doing a
license lookup.
I think that might be alot easier if you're not sure about somebody being
licensed.
"Home, Home On The Mu_n" <homemo...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1lg290lf4nm4gvum2...@4ax.com...
Bob (this one)
> I think you can easily verify the license of a professional (in
> this case MD) just by going to the (theirs) state government
> website and doing a license lookup. I think that might be alot
> easier if you're not sure about somebody being licensed.
Janna, it's not about his being licensed; he is. It's about his claim
that he has admitting privileges at three hospitals that say he
doesn't. It's about his lying *once again* about *another thing.*
His info on the AMA site says he has AP's, his info on the Combined
Board of Medical Examiners says that he has told them he doesn't have
AP's at *any* hospitals.
He says, when asked why the hospitals say he has no such privileges,
that they're saying what they're instructed to say, trying to imply
that he really does, but *for some reason* they're telling the public
that he doesn't.
I say they're saying what they're instructed to say, too. Only I say
they're telling the truth, as they're instructed to say.
Bob
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> I think you can easily verify the license of a professional (in this case
> MD) just by going to the (theirs) state government website and doing a
> license lookup.
> I think that might be alot easier if you're not sure about somebody being
> licensed.
Yes, that would be easier.
Janna
the flame, but I did just a little bit of looking and found that Dr Chung is
listed as a specialist in cardiology and internal medicine and is legit.
http://www.healthgrades.com/consumer/index.cfm?fuseaction=mod&modtype=PRC&modact=PRC_Search_Results
it seems kind of strange somebody with those types of credentials wouldn't
have some kind admitting privileges someplace.
why would he lie about something like that? I mean put it in writing on a
public board so he could get busted? that doesn't make any sense. I would
think you'd have to be kind of mental to be so obvious if you were lying,
don't you think so? maybe it's just some mix up. I am just trying to use
common sense in thinking about it, I don't know if I am right or not but
that's how it seems to me.
"Bob (this one)" <B...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:109eghj...@corp.supernews.com...
Bob (this one)
> I'm not sure what all the contention is about and I really don't
> want to fan the flame, but I did just a little bit of looking and
> found that Dr Chung is listed as a specialist in cardiology and
> internal medicine and is legit.
>
> http://www.healthgrades.com/consumer/index.cfm?fuseaction=mod&modtype=PRC&modact=PRC_Search_Results
He is a physician with some very impressive academic credentials. No
dispute there. Multiple degrees in several fields.
> it seems kind of strange somebody with those types of credentials
> wouldn't have some kind admitting privileges someplace.
Now the real questions begin. Yes, it is strange that a cardiologist
wouldn't have admitting privileges. It is likely that he will have
patients who are critical and need to be in a hospital right now.
Chung is only a referring physician. It almost seems like he's being
derelict in not arranging for the admitting privileges.
Unless the situation in Ocala where he was fired for cause makes it
unlikely that he would get that privilege from the hospitals. The
embarrassment of applying and not getting it would likely be a serious
blow to his professional standing. At one of the hospitals, he applied
but later withdrew the application.
> why would he lie about something like that? I mean put it in
> writing on a public board so he could get busted? that doesn't make
> any sense.
And there's the question that leads only to some very sad answers. Why
would he lie about that, indeed. His motivations are often
self-destructive as perusal of his posts on a day to day basis will
show with a tragic clarity. But the motivations aren't the issue. The
fact that he has faked his credentials is the issue.
> I would think you'd have to be kind of mental to be so obvious if
> you were lying, don't you think so? maybe it's just some mix up.
I wish it were true that it is a mixup, but Chung has said that the
people at the hospitals who say he has no admitting privileges are
saying what they've been "instructed to say." As though some
administrator has told the staff, the whole staff, to lie about Chung
to the public. That's too bizarre to credit. How would it benefit the
hospital to lie? And what would happen if it were published in a
newspaper that a hospital is lying by order of some high-up
administrator? And three hospitals have all signed on to this
deception of the public?
If it's a mixup, he has had plenty of time and opportunity to fix it.
He states on the AMA web site that he has admitting privileges to
three hospitals, listing them all. The hospitals all say no. His
reference on the Combined Board of Medical Examiners page says that he
said he has no privileges - that he told them he had no admitting
privileges. There is an unmistakable contradiction between what he has
told the AMA (which doesn't guarantee accuracy) and what he told the
Combined board.
> I am just trying to use common sense in thinking about it, I don't
> know if I am right or not but that's how it seems to me.
I understand what you're saying. The only problem with your view is
that Chung has a peculiar history of painting himself into corners
with lies, obfuscations, evasions and other less-than-straightforward
behaviors. He's often like that snotty boy in the schoolyard who calls
others names and pulls malicious stunts because he believes he can get
away with anything. Say anything. His hubris is astonishing as is his
sneering, insolent egotism. Maybe he thinks he can bluff his way
through this one, too. I really don't know what he's thinking. But
what he has *done* in this case is a matter of record. "Why" isn't at
all important; only what he's done. Falsifying credentials is bad in
any professional field. It's the beginning of imposture.
Bob
Janna
for the report on Dr Chung (no offense intended Dr Chung)
well, according to this report, It doesn't look like Dr Chung was ever in
Florida. There is no record of any disciplinary action of any kind from any
state at any time , governmental disciplinary action is 'none' as well.
Dr Chung went to Emory University School of Medicine and did his residency
at Emory Affil Hosps(isn't that in New York??, doesn't give the address for
that)
It's been 11 years since he graduated from Medical school, sounds like he's
kind of a young guy yet.
He is certified in both cardiology and internal medicine through the
American Board of Internal Medicine.
he speaks Chinese and mandarin,
then there is a list of several hospitals
the report advises to contact the physicians office to find out about
admitting privileges. I don't know who you asked for when you called the
hospitals to check, but I suppose you could just ask for "admitting" and
they should be able to pull something up on the computer. I would think
either admitting or billing would have more info, I think each doctor has a
"number" that is used to bill insurance and things like that though I am not
real clear on how that all works.
Doesn't look like he falsified anything though, according to this report,
which is pretty complete, everything seems to be in order.
Dr Chung, if any of the information I mentioned is wrong , please correct.
I do recall finding another Dr Andrew Chung on the web who was associated
with St Johns Health care. Wasn't the same "andrew Chung" though. This one
ended up being in Michigan. Dr Andrew B Chung is in Georgia. could be a mix
up like that. maybe??
"Bob (this one)" <B...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:109ik4s...@corp.supernews.com...
terr...@knowspam.mam
A Google search on "Bob Pastorio" is informative, as well.
Terri
H.W. Stockman
> Janna wrote:
> And there's the question that leads only to some very sad answers. Why
> would he lie about that, indeed. His motivations are often
> self-destructive as perusal of his posts on a day to day basis will
> show with a tragic clarity. But the motivations aren't the issue.
What are your motivations? Why is it your mission to attack him over what
seem to be ambiguous points? Your obsession is strange to me.
I've asked Dr Chung a few questions, and his answers were helpful and
reasonable (I always check any answers I get on the internet). He's been
helpful to me. What's the big deal?
Janna
found. I noted he was under attack in this forum and I could not understand
why.
Grant it, there are hucksters and frauds on the internet, one would have to
be very naive not to understand that, and it never hurts to check something
out.
I believe after looking a little bit (this is my opinion) that much of the
attack is based on Christian beliefs or very strong differences of opinion.
there's nothing wrong with differing on opinion, but I think it's going a
bit far when you call somebody a fraud and a quack without some kind of good
investigative homework or very solid proof.
I can't speak for "Bob" in so far as what he looked at or found, I only know
what I found just proved Dr Chung is a legitimate and honest person. I have
no motivation other than just checking into what I read here. sorry if it
offended you or anyone else.
"H.W. Stockman" <stockman3@earth-REMOVE_THIS-link.net> wrote in message
news:nRemc.8569$V97....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
H.W. Stockman
"Janna" <undis...@nospamforme.com> wrote in message
news:H6fmc.2030$mE5....@fe39.usenetserver.com...
> if you're talking to me, I believe Dr Chung is legit based on what I have
> found. I noted he was under attack in this forum and I could not
understand
Sorry for my ambiguous quotation. I was responding to Bob.
Janna
"H.W. Stockman" <stockman3@earth-REMOVE_THIS-link.net> wrote in message
news:eggmc.8615$Hs1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Spencer
> oops...sorry.
>
You two might consider getting a room.
Janna
any state at any time, I did note Dr Chung was in Florida at one time(this
in an additional search). However, there was nothing to indicate he was
fired or disciplined in any way. Looks more like his license expired in
Florida.
his status is listed as "null and void"
"NULL AND VOID - licensed practitioner failed to renew their licensure
status for two renewal cycles, resulting in their license expiring.
Practitioner no longer obligated to update their profile data. If a NULL AND
VOID licensee wishes to return to practice, he/she must re-apply and meet
the current licensure requirements in order to be considered for another
Florida license."
"Janna" <undis...@nospamforme.com> wrote in message
news:efemc.1935$mE5...@fe39.usenetserver.com...
Nospam
Call the 3 hospitals listed with the AMA that Dr. Chung claims he has
admitting privileges to. If they say he indeed does have those
priviliges then everything is above board.
If however, they tell you that he does not have privileges at their
hospitals then you can draw your own conclusions. Many readers of
this NG have already drawn theirs with respect to Dr. Chung.
Janna
there are many and since I really haven't been in this newsgroup but very
briefly I don't know which hospitals are being disputed.
"Nospam" <nos...@abc.com> wrote in message
news:ar8j90dqq5dit03j5...@4ax.com...
Janna
of admission privileges has been discussed quite thoroughly.
to the tune of 120 posts in one thread.
I noted Dr Chung wanted to keep this information out of the spotlight for
personal reasons.
I think I will respect his wishes.
I don't know why nothing is showing up on admission privileges, I did check
many data bases.
I don't understand and I am not going to pretend I know, because I simply
don't.
so I am going to let it drop here.
I do respect everyone's opinion and I am not going to dispute anyone on this
because I have no information.
just what I posted already. **plop** to the ground with this one.
"Janna" <undis...@nospamforme.com> wrote in message
news:avimc.2350$mE5....@fe39.usenetserver.com...
H.W. Stockman
"Spencer" <dal...@sincom.net> wrote in message
news:cQgmc.8700$Hs1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Janna" <undis...@nospamforme.com> wrote in message
> news:Bogmc.2185$mE5....@fe39.usenetserver.com...
> > oops...sorry.
> >
>
> You two might consider getting a room.
You might consider thinking.
Bob (this one)
> A Google search on "Bob Pastorio" is informative, as well.
Yep. Get to see a lot about me, my writing, my newsgroup time, my
radio and tv stuff...
Very informative. If you have any questions, ask away.
Oh, by the way, what's your name so I can google search for
information about you. Seems only fair...
Bob
Bob (this one)
> "Bob (this one)" <B...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:109ik4s...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>> And there's the question that leads only to some very sad
>> answers. Why would he lie about that, indeed. His motivations are
>> often self-destructive as perusal of his posts on a day to day
>> basis will show with a tragic clarity. But the motivations aren't
>> the issue.
>
> What are your motivations?
I dislike frauds. What are your motivations?
> Why is it your mission to attack him over what seem to be ambiguous
> points?
Here's how ambiguous it is: <http://tinyurl.com/2b5jg>
I don't think it's ambiguous when he says in one place that he has
admitting privileges and in another that he doesn't. And all of the
hospitals he says he has them at say he doesn't. I see no ambiguity in
direct contradictions. One is true, the other is false. Does or doesn't.
> Your obsession is strange to me.
If you'd really like to discuss it, lose the smugness and superior
tone. Your inability to see more than just the very specific answers
he's given you is strange to me.
> I've asked Dr Chung a few questions, and his answers were helpful
> and reasonable (I always check any answers I get on the internet).
> He's been helpful to me. What's the big deal?
Right. He's given you good technical answers so that should be the end
of it, no matter what else he does? If that works for you, fine. I
hope he continues to be helpful to you.
Bob
Bob (this one)
> your reply really peaked my curiosity so I decided to just spent the $7.00
> for the report on Dr Chung (no offense intended Dr Chung)
>
> well, according to this report, It doesn't look like Dr Chung was ever in
> Florida. There is no record of any disciplinary action of any kind from any
> state at any time , governmental disciplinary action is 'none' as well.
Dr. Chung was in Florida and was dismissed for cause after 88 days
working there. He protested it and asked for arbitration which upheld
the firing. Not disciplinary action from any governmental body. Firing
from employment. Contract termination.
> Dr Chung went to Emory University School of Medicine and did his residency
> at Emory Affil Hosps(isn't that in New York??, doesn't give the address for
> that)
> It's been 11 years since he graduated from Medical school, sounds like he's
> kind of a young guy yet.
> He is certified in both cardiology and internal medicine through the
> American Board of Internal Medicine.
> he speaks Chinese and mandarin,
> then there is a list of several hospitals
This is where it gets bad. The hospitals say he doesn't have
privileges there.
> the report advises to contact the physicians office to find out about
> admitting privileges. I don't know who you asked for when you called the
> hospitals to check, but I suppose you could just ask for "admitting" and
> they should be able to pull something up on the computer.
Call admissions. They'll tell you. Here's what one person posted here
on April 26, after he called the AMA and all the hospitals.
<http://tinyurl.com/2b5jg> Lays it all out.
> I would think
> either admitting or billing would have more info, I think each doctor has a
> "number" that is used to bill insurance and things like that though I am not
> real clear on how that all works.
> Doesn't look like he falsified anything though, according to this report,
> which is pretty complete, everything seems to be in order.
Janna, you seem to be missing the substance here. Chung certainly has
impressive credentials; the real ones. I've said that many times and
said that I've admired the energy, time and perseverance it took to do
it. It's not about his academic record.
The hospitals say he has no admitting privileges and he says he does.
It's on the AMA site that he's reported that he does. It's on the
combined board of medical examiners site that he says he doesn't.
These are mutually exclusive assertions he's making. Only one can be
true. That means, by definition, that one is false.
When asked directly about it, he evades the direct answer and offers
cryptic non sequiturs.
> Dr Chung, if any of the information I mentioned is wrong , please correct.
> I do recall finding another Dr Andrew Chung on the web who was associated
> with St Johns Health care. Wasn't the same "andrew Chung" though. This one
> ended up being in Michigan. Dr Andrew B Chung is in Georgia. could be a mix
> up like that. maybe??
Not likely. Every one of Chung's posts has a specific sort of sig that
directs one and all to his web sites and his propaganda.
Bob
Bob (this one)
> if you're talking to me, I believe Dr Chung is legit based on what I have
> found. I noted he was under attack in this forum and I could not understand
> why.
> Grant it, there are hucksters and frauds on the internet, one would have to
> be very naive not to understand that, and it never hurts to check something
> out.
> I believe after looking a little bit (this is my opinion) that much of the
> attack is based on Christian beliefs or very strong differences of opinion.
Two very, very different issues. But you seem to have omitted the
attacks done *by* Chung from this equation. You also left out
"material differences of fact" from the list. Like Chung's assertion
that 2 pounds of potatoes contain 3600 calories or that 2 pounds of
bread contains 4000 calories or that runners burn 200 calories in an
hour of running. These are easily researched numbers that show Chung's
to be simply wrong. These aren't differences of opinion or anything to
do with Christianity. Chung invites attack with his phony FAQ and his
baiting. Fighting words usually get a fight.
> there's nothing wrong with differing on opinion, but I think it's going a
> bit far when you call somebody a fraud and a quack without some kind of good
> investigative homework or very solid proof.
The proof is Chung's own words. No one is making up stuff about him.
He provides all the information one could want to evaluate the man. If
you're really interested, the citations are legion. They range from
poor nutritional understanding but insistent assertions anyway, to
erroneous positing about caloric usage by people and many more. Both
fraud and quackery can be demonstrated by his words posted online. No
personal scrutiny was necessary. No private detectives. No spy cameras
on satellites. None of that was necessary. Chung laid it all out himself.
> I can't speak for "Bob" in so far as what he looked at or found, I only know
> what I found just proved Dr Chung is a legitimate and honest person.
Um, I don't think you can make that conclusion based on what you've
posted here. His legitimacy as an MD is clear. He's licensed.
His honesty is a different matter. Your willingness to drop it just
when you get to the specific questions that are pointed out in the
subject of this thread is less than thorough. The *entire* question in
this thread is whether he's lying about his admitting privileges.
Forgive me, but you're another anonymous poster who has supported
Chung, at least by de facto not really checking the crux of this
thread. There have been many who come by, make a post or two or a few
and then disappear. And it is support if you don't follow the trail to
its end now that the questions have been raised.
In another post today, you said:
fair enough. could you please tell me which hospitals I should
call/check?
there are many and since I really haven't been in this newsgroup
but very briefly I don't know which hospitals are being disputed.
The list in on the AMA web site on Chung's page.
Hospital Admitting Privileges:
V A Med Ctr Atlanta, Decatur, GA
Piedmont Hosp, Atlanta, GA
Crawford Long Hosp, Atlanta, GA
<http://www.tinn.com/Chung.htm>
But wait, a few minutes later, you say:
hmmm, well I decided to go take a look into the archives. I see the
subject of admission privileges has been discussed quite thoroughly.
to the tune of 120 posts in one thread.
I noted Dr Chung wanted to keep this information out of the
spotlight for personal reasons.
I think I will respect his wishes.
If you were lying, wouldn't you want to keep it "out of the
spotlight?" Chung is not noted for his openness and candor.
In the same post, you say:
I don't know why nothing is showing up on admission privileges, I
did check many data bases.
I don't know how you think, but if nothing is showing up, it's likely
that there's nothing to show up. Which databases did you check? I
didn't realize there were that many to look at.
Bob
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> hmmm, well I decided to go take a look into the archives. I see the subject
> of admission privileges has been discussed quite thoroughly.
> to the tune of 120 posts in one thread.
> I noted Dr Chung wanted to keep this information out of the spotlight for
> personal reasons.
> I think I will respect his wishes.
>
Thanks, Janna.
Peace be with you, in CHrist's name.
Nicodemo
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
news:4099E0...@heartmdphd.com...
| Janna wrote:
|
| Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
You might want to switch from "servant" to "friend." :)
John 15
15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his
master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I
learned from my Father I have made known to you.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Though He calls me friend, it remains my choice to serve Him :-)
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Janna
admitting privileges.
First I wanted to be sure everything was in order. it was.
admitting privileges seems to be the point of contention.
after I posted about the report, I thought it would be a good idea just to
go to the hospital websites and look through the data bases that name the
various doctors, specialists, etc.that are affiliated with that particular
hospital.
I was going by the hospitals(Atlanta GA) listed on the report. Well, after I
went through about 6 of them and didn't come up with anything I was getting
a bit puzzled and figured I must be missing something someplace. Had I
overlooked something? I figured I must have.
So I came back to this forum thinking maybe I could get a clue where to
search.
I saw the post about calling the hospitals for validity. I figured that was
fair. except I didn't know which hospitals to check.
well, I didn't know when the poster might come back so I figured there must
be something in the archives about it since it seems to be a heated topic.
I found a thread on it, I was reading it and that's when I noted Dr Chung
wanted to keep it private for personal reasons.
well, thinking if I were to continue with this it might only cause even more
problems, I decided it would be better just to drop it.I don't want to start
any more trouble and now I wish I would have stayed out of it altogether.
I did check the data bases and staff for the hospitals mentioned (online) I
came up empty handed.
I have no explanation and I honestly don't understand it at all.
I didn't look deeply into the diet end of it, I do think less food would
probably be better for someone, of course probably depending on a few
factors, like whether or not a person were diabetic, how active they might
be, their age, any disease, things like that. But then again, I am not an MD
either.
There's many disputes about many diets around, so that really isn't
something that I think about much. This country has a problem with obesity
and I know there's alot of contention over what diet is best, some people
will swear by one diet and the flip side will claim it doesn't work etc,
that seems to happen quite often.
I am not much of a calorie counter , I am not sure how many calories are in
a potato. I just look at the fat grams in different things.
After I thought about all of this for a bit, I thought of it this way, well,
it's a public forum for people who have questions or may be ill regarding
heart disease. The Dr is a "real" doctor, he has a medical degree and he is
board certified in cardiology , he has no disciplinary action against him,
and then I wondered why admitting privileges even mattered as pertains to
being a poster on this board.
I wondered if Dr Chung were actually harming anybody, but in looking at
some of the posts he doesn't seem to be harming anyone. I think he probably
started this board because he cares about people. else why would he even
bother putting up with some of the nastiness in this forum?
There was a Dr Nagler in the thread I looked at earlier in the archives,
something he had posted in the thread made sense to me. He said something
to the effect of he thought Dr Chung was being honest in his affiliations
when he placed them with the AMA (not word for word but the gist of it) and
I think he is probably right. I hadn't noted Dr Chung even lied about it
because I could not find a single post in the archives where he claimed
admitting privileges to any of the hospitals in question, this seems to have
come from the AMA site and was older,correct me if I am wrong. so did Dr
Chung actually lie? I think the answer is no.
I don't know what started all of this contention between you and Dr Chung or
when it started, and you're right I am just an anonymous poster, somebody
who passed through with a question to begin with.
I will say from what I looked at I don't think Dr Chung is trying to be
dishonest or deceptive. I think Dr Nagler is a nice guy as well who just has
his own beliefs. I read some of his posts and he seems like an ok guy to me.
I don't know him or anything like that but I came to that conclusions after
reading through some of his postings.
I think I might lose that *FAQ thing if it were me, but that's just my
opinion on it.
to me (and it's only my opinion that doesn't matter I know) the FAQ appears
to be judgmental and kind of hurtful at least that was my first impression
of it.
sorry for the long post.
"Bob (this one)" <B...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:109jlum...@corp.supernews.com...
Stephen Nagler
<undis...@nospamforme.com> wrote (in part):
>After I thought about all of this for a bit, I thought of it this way, well,
>it's a public forum for people who have questions or may be ill regarding
>heart disease.
...............
Correct.
...............
>The Dr is a "real" doctor, he has a medical degree and he is
>board certified in cardiology , he has no disciplinary action against him,
>and then I wondered why admitting privileges even mattered as pertains to
>being a poster on this board.
.................
It doesn't matter. Not one bit.
However, speaking in generalities only, it is my opinion that engaging
in fraud and deception does very much matter with respect to being a
poster on this board. Wouldn't you agree? (The terms "fraud" and
"deception" are used specifically in the "AMA Principles of Ethics"
document.)
smn
Bob (this one)
> I didn't miss the substance. I knew the point was whether or not
> there were admitting privileges.
Not quite. The point was whether Chung has lied about admitting
privileges. He doesn't have them but claims on the AMA site that he
does. He went so far as to post that the AMA verifies such
information. That, too, is not true.
> First I wanted to be sure everything was in order. it was.
> admitting privileges seems to be the point of contention. after I
> posted about the report, I thought it would be a good idea just to
> go to the hospital websites and look through the data bases that
> name the various doctors, specialists, etc.that are affiliated with
> that particular hospital. I was going by the hospitals(Atlanta GA)
> listed on the report. Well, after I went through about 6 of them
> and didn't come up with anything I was getting a bit puzzled and
> figured I must be missing something someplace. Had I overlooked
> something? I figured I must have. So I came back to this forum
> thinking maybe I could get a clue where to search. I saw the post
> about calling the hospitals for validity. I figured that was fair.
> except I didn't know which hospitals to check. well, I didn't know
> when the poster might come back so I figured there must be
> something in the archives about it since it seems to be a heated
> topic. I found a thread on it, I was reading it and that's when I
> noted Dr Chung wanted to keep it private for personal reasons.
> well, thinking if I were to continue with this it might only cause
> even more problems, I decided it would be better just to drop it.I
> don't want to start any more trouble and now I wish I would have
> stayed out of it altogether. I did check the data bases and staff
> for the hospitals mentioned (online) I came up empty handed.
I think you're done with this, Janna. Let it be for the sake of your
own peace.
Chung didn't start the newsgroup.
> There was a Dr Nagler in the thread I looked at earlier in the
> archives, something he had posted in the thread made sense to me.
> He said something to the effect of he thought Dr Chung was being
> honest in his affiliations when he placed them with the AMA (not
> word for word but the gist of it) and I think he is probably right.
> I hadn't noted Dr Chung even lied about it because I could not
> find a single post in the archives where he claimed admitting
> privileges to any of the hospitals in question, this seems to have
> come from the AMA site and was older,correct me if I am wrong. so
> did Dr Chung actually lie? I think the answer is no.
The AMA site is current, not older. It says he has admitting
privileges; the hospitals say he doesn't. All information on the AMA
site is provided by the physician. If it's true, wonderful. If it's
not true, then he's lying about his credentials. It's just that simple.
> I will say from what I looked at I don't think Dr Chung is trying
> to be dishonest or deceptive.
I admire your generosity.
> I think Dr Nagler is a nice guy as well who just has his own
> beliefs. I read some of his posts and he seems like an ok guy to
> me. I don't know him or anything like that but I came to that
> conclusions after reading through some of his postings. I think I
> might lose that *FAQ thing if it were me, but that's just my
> opinion on it. to me (and it's only my opinion that doesn't matter
> I know) the FAQ appears to be judgmental and kind of hurtful at
> least that was my first impression of it.
And that's the dark side of the spirit of Chung that pervades his
efforts here. On one hand, he provides medical advice; on the other he
tries to exalt himself, usually at the expense of others.
> sorry for the long post.
Sorry for the stress it seems to be causing you, Janna. Take a couple
deep breaths and let it go. Have a most splendid day.
Bob
Janna
>deep breaths and let it go. Have a most splendid day.
yes, you are correct, I'm done.
thanks,
you have a great day as well. Take care.
"Bob (this one)" <B...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:109kdf6...@corp.supernews.com...
Janna
>in fraud and deception does very much matter with >respect to being a
>poster on this board. Wouldn't you agree?
yes.
"Stephen Nagler" <nag...@tinn.com> wrote in message
news:88bk90dqf3141bbrb...@4ax.com...
Nospam
<undis...@nospamforme.com> wrote:
>>Sorry for the stress it seems to be causing you, Janna. >Take a couple
>>deep breaths and let it go. Have a most splendid day.
>
>
>yes, you are correct, I'm done.
>thanks,
>you have a great day as well. Take care.
>
Another honest objective person bites the dust. Janna everyone in
this NG who has had any objectivity has left this NG in disgust. Only
Dr. Chung and his few zealot supporters remain.
The issue as far as I see it is: Should you trust the medical advice
given by a stranger on a NG who is less than 100% honest?
I know some people here are lazy, poor, etc. so its convenient to get
medical advice here.
Personally I would rather have none than some which might be 95%
right.
On the other hand I have the benefit of being in the care of qualified
physicians who know me and whose advice I trust.
The thing that gets me is that there are many posters who seek advice
who have been seen by several specialists and GP's and yet want an
internet opinion and diagnosis.
Having more information is a good thing and some doctors are less than
perfect, however.................
Some of the skeptics also worry that the advice is being dispensed by
a board certified cardiologist who seems to spend his entire practice
on the internet and are suspicious as to why? Something just doesn't
add up, and since we are likely to never know the truth, this debate
will continue ad nauseam. I personally think that Dr. Chung gets his
ego stroked big time by all this controversy, and that helping a few
people is secondary.
h1clock
by
a board certified cardiologist who seems to spend his entire practice
on the internet and are suspicious as to why? Something just doesn't
add up, and since we are likely to never know the truth, this debate
will continue ad nauseam. I personally think that Dr. Chung gets his
ego stroked big time by all this controversy, and that helping a few
people is secondary.>>
I'm new here, but have browsed this board, and have discovered what
seems to be a heated witch hunt between two highly unstable and
questionable 'doctors'
One a jesus fanatic, and the other just plain insane.
If you do a google newsgroup search on either of these two wackos,
Andrew Chung and Stephen Nagler, you'll be shocked by some of the past
posts that go back many many years by both in a number of newsgroups.
Stephen Nagler's posting history on the newsgroup,
alt.support.tinnitus is particularly very disturbing. Absolutely
shocking for that matter.
The bottom line is that no one should take any advice from any online
'physician'.
Consult your own general physician or specialist.
These boards should be for sharing one's own experiences on a
particular subject.
They are Not here to obtain free medical advice.
Let the viewer beware.
h1
Nospam
>Stephen Nagler's posting history on the newsgroup,
>alt.support.tinnitus is particularly very disturbing.
I googled Dr. Nagler a few weeks ago and did not find what you refer
to. There were several newspaper articles, television appearances
etc. He seemed legit from what I could see. Also he does not seem to
be dispensing alot of medical advice either.
h1clock
to. There were several newspaper articles, television appearances
etc. He seemed legit from what I could see. Also he does not seem to
be dispensing alot of medical advice either.>>
Well Mr. No Spam, you are either Stephen Nagler under another name, or
blind as a bat.
I suggest that you learn how to use the google archives.
h1
Here is just one of literally thousands that I came across on google:
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 21:19:26 -0500, Stephen Nagler <nag...@tinn.com>
wrote:
> AST has become a place where words
>of true support get so twisted and spun around that - to the great
joy
>of those who would destroy this place - it has ceased becoming a
>source of support at all.
No one wants this place destroyed. People just want you to leave
because of the damage you have caused people over the last few years
as you continued to market TRT like it was The Holy Grail to drink
from.
Yes, all are aware of that there is little support here. But the joy
you speak of would only exist for some if you could be sanctioned by
the medical board for your actions here. Let's list them:
Discussing a patient of yours file contents without his permission.
Chastising those over the past few years who dared not worship at the
altar of TRT which you have brought to such prominence, and therefore
overtaken the ATA. Let the reader know that TRT has no proven basis in
science. And when your TRT fails and you are out $4,000 + travel
expenses, then it's easy to say your TRT clinician was not
experienced. I can think of no better medical abomination.
Told disabled individuals with tinnitus that you don't want your tax
dollars going to support them.
Trying to interfere with an individual's Social Security case by
trying to contact an administrative law judge. That's at:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en
Search using nag...@tinn.com and the subject "What I intend to tell
the judge" and go to the first message. Aw heck, I'll just post it in
another message and save people the trouble.
Using that individual's Social Security number in what is apparently a
very illegal fashion to get his caseworker's name. You claim he
supplied it. He claimed he didn't. You never proved he supplied it.
And it was made abundantly clear that he did not give you permission
to use his Social Security number, but you used it any way. Are you a
scumbag by profession, or do you just freelance when it is convenient?
Bitching about complaints made by many people to the ATA about your
actions and trying to extort - YES EXTORT - apologies from at least
one individual who specifically posted "Will the Chairman of the ATA
please leave me alone."
Advertising "TWO DAYS IN ATLANTA...A LIFETIME of Relief."
Telling others that their doctors are wrong and that you are right
when you have no training in otology and you are not their doctor. The
fact that they chose to not have you as their doctor would seem to
remove any chance of them being mental incompetents. So at least they
still have their faculties in that regard. That in itself is a good
study. People with severe tinnitus do not generally go insane.
Failing to disclose regularly in any way that you have no formal
training in otology.
Letting some people think you are an ENT.
I would hope that's all enough for you to be sanctioned by the GA
Medical Licensing Board. I just hope someone who can address that will
understand how full of crap you are that you are not a victim here
when you were THE catalyst for this hatred of yourself.
When will exposing you end Nagler? If you ever get a few of us in jail
on trumped up charges despite telling nothing but the truth. But the
way I see it you have no power to do so as all that is happening here
is that your own words and unprofessional conduct keep coming back to
bite you in the ass.
You should never have attacked disable people, Dr. Nagler. Nor should
you and Chinnis had the unmitigated gall to claim what YOU TWO feel is
necessary before someone is approved for disability benefits. You two
must think you are gods to have the nerve to have formally stated what
you feel the criteria should be for disability. No one who has ever
done such a thing should be trusted - doctor or layman.
You can't market yourself or your treatment here anymore Nagler. At
least not without the other side of the story being revealed. You
can't intimidate anyone here anymore Nagler. And if you try to
practice medicine here over the internet and across state lines, well
we'll just make sure that it's legal.
Any questions?
PSA
h1clock
regards to Stephen Nagler, and it is particularly disturbing:
Below appears a message that Dr. Nagler posted on March nth, 2001. It
is interesting that he was probably laughed at as he has likely has no
medical credentials to even open the judge's door to get in to discuss
a case involving disability.
From: nag...@mindspring.com (Stephen Nagler)
Newsgroups: alt.support.tinnitus
Subject: What I Intend to Tell the Judge
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 06:15:46 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 148
Message-ID: <3aa8750d...@news.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: nag...@mindspring.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.49.7a
X-Server-Date: 9 Mar 2001 06:11:17 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230
I have just received the following e-mail from Steve Conlon. As you
can see from the first lines, Mr. Conlon will not read my response,
but you all will.
In the e-mail from Steve you will read that in Jack Vernon's opinion,
Steve Conlon's tinnitus is "so severe and incapacitating
as to justify any consideration you [the court] can afford him." I
will not argue with Jack. He's entitled to his opinion. What I will
tell the Administrative Law Judge next week is the absolute truth:
#1 Jack Vernon never examined Steve Conlon; rather he relied upon the
findings of somebdy else who - based upon those same findings - did
not offer a letter in support of Steve's disability application.
#2 In view of the absence of any tinnitus reliability testing, I (as
a Doctor of Medicine) could not draw the same conclusion as Jack
Vernon (a psychologist) did.
#3 In support of #2 above, I will offer as an exhibit weeks and weeks
of public Internet postings by Steve Conlon, demonstrating focused
attention (when motivated) for several hours at a time over several
consecutive days. Based upon that evidence, I will challenge the
vocational rehab expert assigned to the case to explain why Mr. Conlon
could not participate in "Significant Gainful Employment" according to
at least one accepted definition of that concept.
#4 I will point out to the judge that Mr. Conlon has threatened me
and has stated he will "stop at nothing" to stop me. I will point out
to the judge that if Mr. Conlon had decided to get a job instead of
"stopping at nothing" that none of this would be happening in the
first place.
#5 I will point out to the judge that I, as well as every single
taxpayer, pays into the system that will be henceforth paying a weekly
check to this man with ABILITY that he CHOOSES not to use, in addition
to whatever DISability he might have. I will explain that my disgust
as a US taxpayer is the basis for my request for re-assessment of the
case.
#6 Finally, I will point out that Mr. Conlon in some five years of
"suffering" with tinnitus (already receiving disability checks for a
few years from one carrier based upon his tinnitus) has never made an
appointment at the universally respected University tinnitus center
(NON-TRT) that Dr. Vernon himsef founded to see if he might find an
avenue towards relief and return to the workforce. I will point out
that while Mr. Conlon did not choose to travel to Oregon, he did
choose to take several vacations to the Carolina coast.
#7 I will tell the judge that as an American and as a taxpayer I will
certainly respct the judge's decision upon his reassessment of the
case, but that I felt it my obligation as a taxpayer to supply some
additional information that might not have been available to the judge
at the time of his initial evaluation.
Steve, in case you do happen to be reading this post, you have
publicly maligned and viciously slandered me. You have called me a
LIAR, but I do not lie. You have publicly called me a schizophrenic
psychotic asshole shill who should not be treating tinnitus patients.
You have threatened me. And THEN, you went outside this newsgroup and
wrote two highly inflammatory letters about me to the American
Tinnitus Association (the not-for-profit orgnization whose Board I am
honored to Chair) ... and one highly inflammatory letter to my closest
friend in the tinnitus community, Dr. Jack Vernon. Steve, you have
taken our differences outside of this newsgroup ... and now I shall do
the same.
Stephen M. Nagler, M.D.
PSA
h1clock
There are literally thousand's of these types of posts.
<<We were told that Nagler's listing on "call-a-doctor" under
otolaryngology was an accident. Well, maybe that could be a
possibility. But in light of this other ad, is this really the case?
There is a site where Nagler is listed as doing surgery for hearing
loss. It states that Nagler is an ENT doctor."
http://www.doctorbucci.com/franklin.php?cat=OTOLOGY
Stephen Nagler MD Otology
Surgery for hearing Loss. Depending on both the
audiologic evaluation and physical examination of the
ear, further radiologic testing may be necessary. If
X-rays have been done before, a review of the films
by the ear specialist will be done during your office
visit. Be sure to let the receptionist or nurse know
that previous x-rays are available. In addition, a CT
scan or an MRI may be ordered to give more detail
about the location and extent of the ear disease. Ear
deformities, surgery, CT scan, MRI, radiologic
testing, audiologist, hearing, ear infection, hearing
tests, Ear diagnosis, ENT, Ear, Nose, Throat,
Audiometry, speech discrimination, testing, hearing
aid.
Address::SE COMPREHENSIVE TINNITUS CLNC:980
JOHNSON FERRY RD NE # 760, ATLANTA, GA, 30342,
(404)531-3940
I guess that listing got there by accident too! This is so sad to see.
First the listing in the Atlanta phone book under otolaryngology, then
the listing on call-a-doctor in Atlanta under otolaryngology, and now
we find this. Aren't there any regulations against claiming to be
something that you aren't? This like "Find Waldo." Instead, it's an
internet search game to find where Nagler is advertised in the field
of otology when he is not trained as an ear doctor and has no board
certification as such.
Am I the only one who finds this to be an outrage?
Martin Aquinas>>>
Nospam
like an asshole.
I ignore usenet posts when googling. Anyone can write anything on
usenet completely unvetted (researched for accuracy).
I was referring to web sites from newspapers, magazines and television
shows. From the ones I have seen Dr. Nagler seems legit.
If you have a beef post something worth spending the time reading.
Reprints of usenet trashing don't pass the stink gauge as far as I'm
concerned.
Nospam
>http://www.doctorbucci.com/franklin.php?cat=OTOLOGY
>
One more thing Terri. That site you are quoting does not exist and
Dr. Nagler has already explained that it was a crock and lasted in
cyber world for a few weeks if that. That the best you got?
Nospam
NG with is another fine example of why this NG is worthless. Just
seems to attract wackos and drive away legitimate posters.
h1clock
Yes it is worthless. It attracts 'wackos', namely Chung, Nagler, and
the likes of assholes like yourself. :-)
h1
listener
>Another honest objective person bites the dust. Janna everyone in
>this NG who has had any objectivity has left this NG in disgust. Only
>Dr. Chung and his few zealot supporters remain.
>
>The issue as far as I see it is: Should you trust the medical advice
>given by a stranger on a NG who is less than 100% honest?
>
>I know some people here are lazy, poor, etc. so its convenient to get
>medical advice here.
>
>Personally I would rather have none than some which might be 95%
>right.
>
>On the other hand I have the benefit of being in the care of qualified
>physicians who know me and whose advice I trust.
>
>The thing that gets me is that there are many posters who seek advice
>who have been seen by several specialists and GP's and yet want an
>internet opinion and diagnosis.
>
>Having more information is a good thing and some doctors are less than
>perfect, however.................
>
>Some of the skeptics also worry that the advice is being dispensed by
>a board certified cardiologist who seems to spend his entire practice
>on the internet and are suspicious as to why? Something just doesn't
>add up, and since we are likely to never know the truth, this debate
>will continue ad nauseam. I personally think that Dr. Chung gets his
>ego stroked big time by all this controversy, and that helping a few
>people is secondary.
>
All wise words.
The open, wacky world of Usenet is the very last place anyone should
take medical advice from doctors. There are moderated forums and
hospital sites that are probably safer bets than this zoo...
L.
Stephen Nagler
<undis...@nospamforme.com> wrote:
>>speaking in generalities only, it is my opinion that >engaging
>>in fraud and deception does very much matter with >respect to being a
>>poster on this board. Wouldn't you agree?
>
>yes.
>
................
Well, that's what this thread is all about!
I realize that the flow of things can cause confusion. This thread is
NOT about whether or not a doctor has admitting privileges at any
given hospital. It's about ... fraud and deception. Look at the
subject line!
smn
h1clock
<<Well, that's what this thread is all about!
I realize that the flow of things can cause confusion. This thread is
NOT about whether or not a doctor has admitting privileges at any
given hospital. It's about ... fraud and deception. Look at the
subject line!
smn>>>
From what I have read about you sir, literally thousands of posts from
the google archives, this sounds like the biggest case of 'pot kettle
black' since the dawn of mankind.
h1
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
We have all been blackened by sin. The difference is that my Lord has
washed me clean.
You remain in my prayers to God in Christ's name.
May you accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that
you too may become unblemished.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557
What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z11841938
Nospam
>We have all been blackened by sin. The difference is that my Lord has
>washed me clean.
>
By now this is the standard response when this qwack gets caught in
the admitting privileges lie. I would suspect this is why he was let
go in Florida too, but who knows, he won't dare say.
You want your medical problems solved by him? Go ahead, he's yours.
William Wagner
>The open, wacky world of Usenet is the very last place anyone should
>take medical advice from doctors. There are moderated forums and
>hospital sites that are probably safer bets than this zoo...
>L.
Usenet is a lot like panning for gold. Lot's of useless stuff. But
here and there a Gem. In a way you must know what the answer is before
you are able to discern it. Strange eh? Not one not two....drifts in.
Don't know what ..Not one not two means ?
Neither do I!
Bill
--
Zone 5 In South Jersey USA Shade
Consider all sorts of music at http://xpn.org/
"No Progress without contraries" William Blake.
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
>terr...@knowspam.mam wrote:
>> A Google search on "Bob Pastorio" is informative, as well.
>
>Yep. Get to see a lot about me, my writing, my newsgroup time, my
>radio and tv stuff...
>
>Very informative. If you have any questions, ask away.
>
>Oh, by the way, what's your name so I can google search for
>information about you. Seems only fair...
>
>Bob
>
So, it isn't fair to do a google search on your name unless we reveal
our own? Strange logic, Bob. You put your name out there so you
should be willing to accept what goes along with it.
BTW, isn't all that MSG, brine, etc. bad for the blood pressure?
Terri
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
You would know from first-hand experience, Stephen.
Terri
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
>On Thu, 6 May 2004 11:15:52 -0400, "Janna"
And you are the expert on fraud and deception in the medical
profession.
Terri
terr...@knowspam.mam
Search the newsgroups.
Terri
terr...@knowspam.mam
Sorry...not me.
Terri
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> On Thu, 06 May 2004 01:25:38 -0400, "Bob (this one)" <B...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
> >terr...@knowspam.mam wrote:
> >> A Google search on "Bob Pastorio" is informative, as well.
> >
> >Yep. Get to see a lot about me, my writing, my newsgroup time, my
> >radio and tv stuff...
...and http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp
Oops. And, how long will this be archived?... *forever*
Simply watch him continue his desperate struggle to redefine his
ill-chosen words in a vain attempt to erase what can not be undone.
Such is sin.
Only Christ can erase it.
> >Very informative. If you have any questions, ask away.
> >
> >Oh, by the way, what's your name so I can google search for
> >information about you. Seems only fair...
> >
> >Bob
> >
> So, it isn't fair to do a google search on your name unless we reveal
> our own? Strange logic, Bob. You put your name out there so you
> should be willing to accept what goes along with it.
It seems he has problems accepting his own reflection. The mirror has
been unfair to him. So he continues to obsessively hate the truth that
is Christ.
> BTW, isn't all that MSG, brine, etc. bad for the blood pressure?
It's also bad for the heart along with the rest of the body. Now, he
knows why he is riddled with disease.
Poor guy.
He remains in my prayers to God in Christ's name.
May he accept Christ as his personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that
he too will know eternal life and the infinite riches of God's kingdom.
Bob (this one)
> terr...@knowspam.mam wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 06 May 2004 01:25:38 -0400, "Bob (this one)" <B...@nospam.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>terr...@knowspam.mam wrote:
>>>
>>>>A Google search on "Bob Pastorio" is informative, as well.
>>>
>>>Yep. Get to see a lot about me, my writing, my newsgroup time, my
>>>radio and tv stuff...
>
> ...and http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp
>
> Oops. And, how long will this be archived?... *forever*
Forever...? As in eternally? Right. Forever? A thousand years? A
million years? Or could Chung be doing his normal over-the-top lunacy.
As though Chung will be remembered a minute past his shuffling off
this mortal coil as anything but a discredited, strutting clown.
And, how ever long it's out there, that's how long Chung's infirmities
will be evident. That's how long his falsity will be archived. That's
how long his false credentials will be preserved. That's how long his
support and encouragement of the malice that he and Mu splash
hereabouts will be preserved.
> Simply watch him continue his desperate struggle to redefine his
> ill-chosen words in a vain attempt to erase what can not be undone.
He puts up a web page filled with innuendo and untruth and acts as
though it's some objective effort outside his malicious obsessions.
This is the darkness that lives in Chung at its tragic finest. Spin,
lies and self-congratulations.
I make no effort to change what I've said, I make no effort to
redefine what and who I am. I don't struggle with who I am, for better
or worse. What I say here and in the rest of the world is out there
for all to see.
I've characterized Chung as a fraud, a quack, a charlatan... I see no
reason to change any of that, given his continuing offerings of proof.
> Such is sin.
<LOL> Too cute. Chung is now accusing me of sinning because I've
pointed out his intellectual house of cards, demolished his hipshot
"knowledge" about nutrition and caloric usage, tasked him about his
hypocritical religious fakery...
Never mind his false witness, his deliberate lying, his pretended
knowledge. <LOL>
> Only Christ can erase it.
>
>>>Very informative. If you have any questions, ask away.
>>>
>>>Oh, by the way, what's your name so I can google search for
>>>information about you. Seems only fair...
>>>
>>>Bob
>>>
>>
>>So, it isn't fair to do a google search on your name unless we reveal
>>our own? Strange logic, Bob. You put your name out there so you
>>should be willing to accept what goes along with it.
>
> It seems he has problems accepting his own reflection. The mirror has
> been unfair to him. So he continues to obsessively hate the truth that
> is Christ.
That song "Poor Johnny One-Note" must have been written about Chung.
And his note doesn't even have to be true. <LOL> I didn't try to
disavow anything out there about me, I just asked Terri to offer me
the same opportunity about her that she has about me. It was more a
jibe than any hope of an anonymous poster ever coming forth to let the
same light shine on her that she wants to shine on others.
It appears that Chung has more problems with reflection than I ever
could. What with fake information being fed to the AMA, it looks like
he's not happy with the real world and has to create false ones.
Chung's mirror grows more clouded with artifice daily. Grows more
murky with the rantings of a disturbed person unable to navigate the
world's passages without a cloak of manufactured credentials. Sad, really.
Is there anyone who writes more about hate than Chung? Projection is a
sad thing to watch.
>>BTW, isn't all that MSG, brine, etc. bad for the blood pressure?
>
> It's also bad for the heart along with the rest of the body. Now, he
> knows why he is riddled with disease.
<LOL> Chung should stick to lying, he's better at it than nutritional
consideration. <LOL> And now I'm "riddled with disease." If wishes
could be real, I'd be crackling on an eternal barbecue, thanks to the
grace and warmth of the faker Chung.
Chung is so obsessed with quantity, you'd think he'd know that
nutrients can be either constructive, neutral or destructive,
depending on the circumstances. But his one-size-fits-all mentality
tries to make everything absolute, and in my case, bad. <LOL> Poor
midget-minded Chung.
It seems that Chung is particularly vexed with me recently with all
the gratuitous attacks. Must be the discomfort of having his
artificiality spotlighted yet again. In the past, I've said that if he
left me alone, I'd do the same. It appears that his transparent
obsessions/compulsions forbid that simple behavior.
Bob
Bob (this one)
> On Thu, 06 May 2004 01:25:38 -0400, "Bob (this one)" <B...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>terr...@knowspam.mam wrote:
>>
>>>A Google search on "Bob Pastorio" is informative, as well.
>>
>>Yep. Get to see a lot about me, my writing, my newsgroup time, my
>>radio and tv stuff...
>>
>>Very informative. If you have any questions, ask away.
>>
>>Oh, by the way, what's your name so I can google search for
>>information about you. Seems only fair...
>>
>>Bob
>>
> So, it isn't fair to do a google search on your name unless we reveal
> our own? Strange logic, Bob.
Actually a small poke at you for posting inferences rather than
information. Not really saying anything substantive, merely implying
that there's something bad out there. And doing so from the relative
safety of an anonymous handle. That anonymity offers you the security
of being able to post anything with no way for anyone to look behind
it or to examine what you say for real world veracity.
> You put your name out there so you
> should be willing to accept what goes along with it.
I am. I was just seeing if you were willing to do the same or would
you stay behind that tree while shooting arrows.
> BTW, isn't all that MSG, brine, etc. bad for the blood pressure?
I guess if you drink the brine. You don't know much about cooking or
physics, do you? If you're really asking, I can explain all about it.
The short answer is no, for the vast preponderance of the population.
A few people can benefit from minimizing their exposures. If you're
just prodding, as it appears, look it up yourself.
Bob
h1clock
You are obviously NOT searching the NEWSGROUP Google archives.
Hopefully this link should bring you to over 11,000 threads with Dr.
Stephen Nagler on alt.support.tinnitus. Have fun exploring them. It is
very disturbing. Doctor or otherwise, he is apparently not a stable
person.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z5F025D38
h1
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
It truly is sad. It seems he has wasted and continues to waste the gifts that God has given him.
He remains in my prayers to God in Christ's name.
May he accept Christ as his personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that he might be cured of all
that ails him.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Stephen Nagler
................
I will stand by everything I have ever written on ast - IN CONTEXT.
The crap terri (as h1clock) points to in the link she has so
generously provided above is full of the distortions, half-truths, and
slader that a handful of folks under dozens on nicks have written
about me - or have said that I said - as well as truncated and
out-of-context quotes.
Below is a link to every single thing I myself have ever posted on
alt.support.tinnitus except for the one and only one post of mine that
I nuked. That post - the "Tell It to the Judge" post - was
ill-advised. I apologized for it, and I then nuked it. With that
exception, all of my posting can be found at:
Oh yes, lest I forget. There was a good bunch of forging going on on
ast. So, for instance, the following post
is something I never wrote, but it appears under my name nonetheless.
Bottom line? You cannot trust newsgroup searches. And that's why
"Nospam" writes in this very thread:
>I ignore usenet posts when googling. Anyone can write anything on
>usenet completely unvetted (researched for accuracy).
See, even a search with "Stephen Nagler" as the author does not take
into account forgeries!
smn
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
>terr...@knowspam.mam wrote:
>
Thanks for your patient response to someone asking an on-topic
question.
Terri
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
>On 7 May 2004 07:11:28 -0700, h1c...@yahoo.com (h1clock) wrote:
Stephen's time-worn and convenient excuses: Any person quoting Nagler
from the archives must be terri231 and if it isn't a flattering quote,
it must be "out of context" or "a forgery".
Terri
h1clock
Nagler
from the archives must be terri231 and if it isn't a flattering quote,
it must be "out of context" or "a forgery".
Terri>>
Yes it is very amusing.
I have really never seen anything quite like it for that matter?
As I have found his history fascinating to say the least, I noticed
that he loves to make 'offers' to people.
Let's make him an 'offer'.
Can 'Dr.' Nagler prove that I am terri231.
He is a extremely unstable person.
Does he really hold a medical degree?
At least at this point in time?
h1
Bob (this one)
> On Fri, 07 May 2004 09:58:20 -0400, "Bob (this one)" <B...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>>terr...@knowspam.mam wrote:
Here. Let me put back the other paragraph in your post so the context
is more clear:
> So, it isn't fair to do a google search on your name unless we
> reveal our own? Strange logic, Bob. You put your name out there so
> you should be willing to accept what goes along with it.
>>>BTW, isn't all that MSG, brine, etc. bad for the blood pressure?
>>
>>I guess if you drink the brine. You don't know much about cooking or
>>physics, do you? If you're really asking, I can explain all about it.
>>The short answer is no, for the vast preponderance of the population.
>>A few people can benefit from minimizing their exposures. If you're
>>just prodding, as it appears, look it up yourself.
>>
>>Bob
>>
> Thanks for your patient response to someone asking an on-topic
> question.
Terri, I have yet to see a post from you that wasn't sarcastic or
belligerent. I don't read all your posts, so I may have missed some,
but the tone of your question, particularly in the context of your
attacking me, wasn't the sort that engenders a "patient response to
someone asking an on-topic question." Your implied innocence in this
thread is vastly overstated.
MSG and salt are enormously different chemicals and have enormously
different implications for human nutrition. The blood pressure/salt
relationship has been just as foolishly overtrumpeted as low fat was.
Check out a study called "Intersalt." MSG syndrome has been
investigated rather thoroughly and essentially discredited.
I did say that if you truly were asking, I'd be happy to explain it.
Your reply above says you weren't asking.
Bob
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
I guess I struck a nerve there, Bob.
Terri
Bob (this one)
You would have to believe that, wouldn't you? Otherwise all your
efforts, such small things as they are, would all have been in vain.
You got a full explanation about how trivial you are plus some facts
to comfort you in your self imposed isolation. No nerves involved.
Bob
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
Whatever you say, Bob.
Terri
Bob (this one)
<LOL> Last word game...?
Enjoy it.
Bob
Stephen Nagler
You must be only person (with standards, that is) who (a) doesn't
delete terri's posts unread or (b) hasn't killfiled her.
She has absolutely no redeeming qualities. None. Zero. She has no
value. She lives to be an irritant. She's a running sore - nothing
more. Ignore her or killfile her. But please do not waste your time
(or ours) responding to her. And if you find you *must* respond to
her, please do not quote the garbage that spews forth from her
keyboard in your responses.
Thanks -
smn
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
>Bob -
You would love to have people not read the truth about you, Stephen.
Terri
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Truth is garbage to the untruthful.
terr...@knowspam.mam
wrote:
Thanks Bob, I will.
Terri