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Hungrier type-2 diabetic --> Euglycemic type-2 diabetic

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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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May 11, 2012, 11:26:38 PM5/11/12
to
"Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
diabetes) ingested on average 25 ą 10% more energy during euglycemia
(645 ą 75 vs. 483 ą 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."

Source:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full

Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
than hyperglycemia.

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier, especially for
type-2 diabetics ...

http://WDJW.net/BeSmart

... because we care about type-2 diabetics,

HeartDoc Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9ad0c19df5ffc2f7?

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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May 13, 2012, 5:18:28 PM5/13/12
to
Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
> diabetes) ingested on average 25 � 10% more energy during euglycemia
> (645 � 75 vs. 483 � 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
>
> Source:
> http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
>
> Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
> hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
> than hyperglycemia.

Thus, type-2 diabetics are living proof by GOD that being hungrier is
wonderful:

http://WDJW.net/WonderfullyHungrier

... and the world is wrong about hunger as evident by their
propaganda:

http://HelpStampOutHunger.com

> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier, especially for
> type-2 diabetics ...
>
> http://WDJW.net/BeSmart
>
> ... because we care about type-2 diabetics,
>
> HeartDoc Andrew <><

Source:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ae4dfc656f30dd85?

... and we care about moms:

http://t.co/4ORqR7K1

This physician ( http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc ) shares that we should love
our mom just as our LORD loves and commands (John 15:12-3) us by
edifying her about how GOD commands us through mom Mary (John 2:5) to
be ever mindful of WDJW ( http://WDJW.net/ ) by doing what Jesus
wants.

"For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government
will be on His shoulders (Matthew 12:25). And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor (Luke 12:25), Mighty God (Mark 12:25), Everlasting
Father (John 12:25), Prince of Peace ( http://WDJW.net/PrinceOfPeace
)." (Isaiah 9:6) Yes, 12:25 really is the birthday of our risen LORD
Jesus 'Christ' of Nazareth. Laus Deo :-)

LORD Jesus Christ says "you are My friends if you do what I
command"(John 15:14) and "if you love Me, you will obey what I
command."(John 14:15)

The LORD commands His disciples, who are mindful of WDJW and are doing
what He wants, to "love each other as I have loved you."(John 15:12)

http://WDJW.net

The LORD teaches "greater love has no one than this, that he lay down
his life for his friends"(John 15:13) thereby meeting unwanted needs.
Friends don't want friends to die.

This is how we, who are Jesus' disciples (either Jew or gentile),
should love one another. We should mindfully choose to openly care
with our heart so that we would be willing to die for each other
because our LORD has been willing to die for each of us and indeed has
died for each of us so that we may have eternal life (John 3:16).

May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
life in remembrance of the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as our
Messiah, the Son of Man:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ba987143725c5298?

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for the
heart:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f882137d4e2858d8?

... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist
and Author of "Trust the Truth -
Only the truth can cure the 'hunger is starvation' delusion:"
http://www.amazon.com/Trust-Truth-hunger-starvation-delusion/dp/1440147663/

"no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit."(1Cor12:3)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c?

What are the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/470799ce370a2ff2?

What is the "hunger is starvation" delusion?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?

Kumar

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May 17, 2012, 1:31:09 AM5/17/12
to
On May 12, 8:26 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu>
wrote:
> "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
> diabetes) ingested on average 25 ± 10% more energy during euglycemia
> (645 ± 75 vs. 483 ± 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
>
> Source:http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
>
> Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
> hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
> than hyperglycemia.
>
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier, especially for
> type-2 diabetics ...
>
> http://WDJW.net/BeSmart
>
> ... because we care about type-2 diabetics,
>
> HeartDoc Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist
> and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9ad0c19df5ffc2f7?

Hello,
Best Greetings.

To me following research article look to hold quite logical validity
in better understanding of diabetes type2:-

Diabetic may start in intestines;
https://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/23409.aspx

How do you assess it?

Since inflamation is linked to insulin resistance and thinness of
mucus/mucus membrane can hold validity to inflammation and altred
absorption, it appears that this research should hold validity??

Best regards.

Ace*

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May 17, 2012, 3:24:13 AM5/17/12
to
On May 16, 10:31 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 12, 8:26 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > type-2 diabetics ...
>
> Hello,
> Best Greetings.

When spam spams spam :-)

%

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May 17, 2012, 3:27:23 AM5/17/12
to
then comes the real meat ,
hi , boner heads

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 17, 2012, 7:15:13 AM5/17/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
> > diabetes) ingested on average 25 ± 10% more energy during euglycemia
> > (645 ± 75 vs. 483 ± 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
> >
> > Source:http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
> >
> > Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
> > hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
> > than hyperglycemia.
> >
> > Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier, especially for
> > type-2 diabetics ...
> >
> > http://WDJW.net/BeSmart
> >
> > ... because we care about type-2 diabetics,
> >
> > HeartDoc Andrew <><
>
> Hello,
> Best Greetings.

Hello Kumar, hope you're wonderfully hungry too :-)

http://WDJW.net/WonderfullyHungry

> To me following research article look to hold quite logical validity
> in better understanding of diabetes type2:-
>
> Diabetic may start in intestines;
> https://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/23409.aspx
>
> How do you assess it?

The http://WDJW.net/VAT starts accumulating around the intestines when
there is overeating (i.e. eating more than the right amount, which is
32 oz of daily food).

> Since inflamation is linked to insulin resistance and thinness of
> mucus/mucus membrane can hold validity to inflammation and altred
> absorption, it appears that this research should hold validity??

Yes.

> Best regards.

To you as well :-)

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?

...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

Kumar

unread,
May 17, 2012, 8:30:03 AM5/17/12
to
On May 17, 4:15 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > > "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
> > > diabetes) ingested on average 25 ± 10% more energy during euglycemia
> > > (645 ± 75 vs. 483 ± 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
>
> > > Source:http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
>
> > > Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
> > > hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
> > > than hyperglycemia.
>
> > > Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier, especially for
> > > type-2 diabetics ...
>
> > >http://WDJW.net/BeSmart
>
> > > ... because we care about type-2 diabetics,
>
> > > HeartDoc Andrew <><
>
> > Hello,
> > Best Greetings.
>
> Hello Kumar, hope you're wonderfully hungry too :-)
>
> http://WDJW.net/WonderfullyHungry

Thanks. Yes.
>
> > To me following research article look to hold quite logical validity
> > in better understanding of diabetes type2:-
>
> > Diabetic may start in intestines;
> >https://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/23409.aspx
>
> > How do you assess it?
>
> Thehttp://WDJW.net/VATstarts accumulating around the intestines when
> there is overeating (i.e. eating more than the right amount, which is
> 32 oz of daily food).
>
> > Since inflamation is linked to insulin resistance and thinness of
> > mucus/mucus membrane can hold validity to inflammation and altred
> > absorption, it appears that this research should hold validity??
>
> Yes.

This is important snip from this link:

"Instead, Wei says, the mice got sick because of a defect in fatty
acid synthase. The mice without fatty acid synthase had lost the
protective lining of mucus in the intestines that separates the
microbes from direct exposure to cells. This allowed bacteria to
penetrate otherwise healthy cells in the gut, making the mice sick.
Fatty acid synthase is required to keep that mucosal layer intact,”
Wei says. “Without it, bad bacteria invade cells in the colon and the
small intestine, creating inflammation, and that, in turn, contributes
to insulin resistance and diabetes...”

Inflammation and insulin resistance reinforce each other. Inflammatory
substances can cause insulin resistance and inhibit the production of
insulin, both of which interfere with the regulation of blood sugar.
In turn, insulin resistance is known to promote inflammation.

Further study showed that the ability to build the thin, but
important, layer of mucosal cells was hindered by faulty FAS."

Does it suggest VAT accumulation or fat/lipoprotien deficiency? I
think this link suggest lower lipids(so lower lipoprotiens in cell
membranes) causing comparatively thin or senstive cell membrane.

It may be important to understand; 1. how faulty FAS taken place? 2.
Does it make call membrane thin & senstive? 3. How it alter mucus
layer?

Probably this theory may also suggest altered senstivity due to
thining of cell membranesw at other parts?

Btw, whether bile secration is altered due to prolonged Dibetic
type2---either due to low lipid levels(esp. cholestreols) in blood(as
bile is made from Cholestreols) or otherwise?

>
> > Best regards.
>
> To you as well :-)
>
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist
> and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9ad0c19df5ffc2f7?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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May 17, 2012, 2:17:56 PM5/17/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Kumar wrote:
>> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>
>> > > "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
>> > > diabetes) ingested on average 25 ± 10% more energy during euglycemia
>> > > (645 ± 75 vs. 483 ± 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
>>
>> > > Source:http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
>>
>> > > Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
>> > > hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
>> > > than hyperglycemia.
>>
>> > > Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier, especially for
>> > > type-2 diabetics ...
>>
>> > >http://WDJW.net/BeSmart
>>
>> > > ... because we care about type-2 diabetics,
>>
>> > > HeartDoc Andrew <><
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Best Greetings.
>>
>> Hello Kumar, hope you're wonderfully hungry too :-)
>>
>> http://WDJW.net/WonderfullyHungry
>
>Thanks. Yes.

Laus Deo :-)

http://WDJW.net/LausDeo

>> > To me following research article look to hold quite logical validity
>> > in better understanding of diabetes type2:-
>>
>> > Diabetic may start in intestines;
>> >https://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/23409.aspx
>>
>> > How do you assess it?
>>
>> The http://WDJW.net/VAT starts accumulating around the intestines when
>> there is overeating (i.e. eating more than the right amount, which is
>> 32 oz of daily food).
>>
>> > Since inflamation is linked to insulin resistance and thinness of
>> > mucus/mucus membrane can hold validity to inflammation and altred
>> > absorption, it appears that this research should hold validity??
>>
>> Yes.
>
> This is important snip from this link:
>
> "Instead, Wei says, the mice got sick because of a defect in fatty
> acid synthase. The mice without fatty acid synthase had lost the
> protective lining of mucus in the intestines that separates the
> microbes from direct exposure to cells. This allowed bacteria to
> penetrate otherwise healthy cells in the gut, making the mice sick.
> Fatty acid synthase is required to keep that mucosal layer intact,”
> Wei says. “Without it, bad bacteria invade cells in the colon and the
> small intestine, creating inflammation, and that, in turn, contributes
> to insulin resistance and diabetes...”

This would be an **acquired** defect that arises as a consequence of
having that terribly bad inside VAT ( Visceral Adipose Tissue ) which
is caused by overeating.

>Inflammation and insulin resistance reinforce each other. Inflammatory
>substances can cause insulin resistance and inhibit the production of
>insulin, both of which interfere with the regulation of blood sugar.
>In turn, insulin resistance is known to promote inflammation.

Insulin resistance is a consequence of inflammation as evident by it
happening **after** there is VAT ( http://WDJW.net/VAT )

Kumar

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May 17, 2012, 8:52:29 PM5/17/12
to
On May 17, 11:17 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu>
> >> Thehttp://WDJW.net/VATstarts accumulating around the intestines when
> >> there is overeating (i.e. eating more than the right amount, which is
> >> 32 oz of daily food).
>
> >> > Since inflamation is linked to insulin resistance and thinness of
> >> > mucus/mucus membrane can hold validity to inflammation and altred
> >> > absorption, it appears that this research should hold validity??
>
> >> Yes.
>
> > This is important snip from this link:
>
> > "Instead, Wei says, the mice got sick because of a defect in fatty
> > acid synthase. The mice without fatty acid synthase had lost the
> > protective lining of mucus in the intestines that separates the
> > microbes from direct exposure to cells. This allowed bacteria to
> > penetrate otherwise healthy cells in the gut, making the mice sick.
> > Fatty acid synthase is required to keep that mucosal layer intact,”
> > Wei says. “Without it, bad bacteria invade cells in the colon and the
> > small intestine, creating inflammation, and that, in turn, contributes
> > to insulin resistance and diabetes...”
>
> This would be an **acquired** defect that arises as a consequence of
> having that terribly bad inside VAT ( Visceral Adipose Tissue ) which
> is caused by overeating.
Do you suggest that VATs are alsoi accumulated in the lining of
intestines causing thin mucus layer? Pls tell in more details how VATs
are accumulated in intestines mucus membrane?

I presume two pathologies. One in patients showing clear motions or
diahrrea OTHER unclear motions or constipation. I think these
conditions are related to alterations in bile secration, former
secrating normal or more bile WHERAS later secrating lesser bile.
Lesser bile secration is related to getting unclear motions/
constipastion. Since some streiods are also there in bile. it can be
thought that less bile secration in intestines can promote
inflammation. It can also cause inability to check right pH of foods
in intestines(as bile is alkaline)..which can cause non toleration of
sour foods, IBD etc.. Is it true?
> >Inflammation and insulin resistance reinforce each other. Inflammatory
> >substances can cause insulin resistance and inhibit the production of
> >insulin, both of which interfere with the regulation of blood sugar.
> >In turn, insulin resistance is known to promote inflammation.
>
> Insulin resistance is a consequence of inflammation as evident by it
> happening **after** there is VAT (http://WDJW.net/VAT)
>
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:

Yes.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist
> and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9ad0c19df5ffc2f7?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 17, 2012, 9:52:35 PM5/17/12
to
> > >> The http://WDJW.net/VAT starts accumulating around the intestines when
> > >> there is overeating (i.e. eating more than the right amount, which is
> > >> 32 oz of daily food).
> >
> > >> > Since inflamation is linked to insulin resistance and thinness of
> > >> > mucus/mucus membrane can hold validity to inflammation and altred
> > >> > absorption, it appears that this research should hold validity??
> >
> > >> Yes.
> >
> > > This is important snip from this link:
> >
> > > "Instead, Wei says, the mice got sick because of a defect in fatty
> > > acid synthase. The mice without fatty acid synthase had lost the
> > > protective lining of mucus in the intestines that separates the
> > > microbes from direct exposure to cells. This allowed bacteria to
> > > penetrate otherwise healthy cells in the gut, making the mice sick.
> > > Fatty acid synthase is required to keep that mucosal layer intact,”
> > > Wei says. “Without it, bad bacteria invade cells in the colon and the
> > > small intestine, creating inflammation, and that, in turn, contributes
> > > to insulin resistance and diabetes...”
> >
> > This would be an **acquired** defect that arises as a consequence of
> > having that terribly bad inside VAT ( Visceral Adipose Tissue ) which
> > is caused by overeating.
.
> Do you suggest that VATs are alsoi accumulated in the lining of
> intestines causing thin mucus layer?

Just as VAT on the surface of the heart as epicardial adipose tissue
(EAT) is causing heart disease, VAT at the surface of intestines as
omental adipose tissue (OAT) is causing intestinal disease:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16731817

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:

Kumar

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May 18, 2012, 2:29:33 AM5/18/12
to
On May 18, 6:52 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...@thetruth.com>
> > > >> Thehttp://WDJW.net/VATstarts accumulating around the intestines when
Does it match with the mentioning about faulty FAS in the link
provided by me? If yes How?

Will you pls tell about bile abnormalities(in quantity & quality)
related to diabetes?
>
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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May 18, 2012, 3:07:39 AM5/18/12
to
> > > > >> The http://WDJW.net/VAT starts accumulating around the intestines when
Pro-inflammatory adipocytokines (PIACs) from VAT are disruptive of
normal gene expression. The fatty acid synthase (FAS) gene is highly
regulated:

http://www.jbc.org/content/277/13/11019.short

Kumar

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May 22, 2012, 4:14:41 AM5/22/12
to
On May 18, 12:07 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
> > > > > >> Thehttp://WDJW.net/VATstarts accumulating around the intestines when
Ok thanks.

Whether some bile abnormalities occur due to diabetes2?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 22, 2012, 6:49:56 AM5/22/12
to
> > > > > > >> The http://WDJW.net/VAT starts accumulating around the intestines when
Laus Deo :-)

> Whether some bile abnormalities occur due to diabetes2?

It would be due to the VAT in the liver:

http://www.medicinenet.com/fatty_liver/article.htm

Kumar

unread,
May 23, 2012, 8:57:33 PM5/23/12
to
On May 22, 3:49 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
> > > > > > > >> Thehttp://WDJW.net/VATstarts accumulating around the intestines when
Whether fatty liver is only due to VAT accumulations?

Since, inflammation is well indicative as a cause to gertting insulin
resistance. Is it all types of inflammation which aid/add to insulin
resistance?

If so, do we get inflammation(defence response) due to odd eatings(in
quality & quantity) to handle such odd eating? By odd eating I mean
eating unnaturaly in quality & quantity.

Also, whether inflammation can be related to getting excessive or odd
cravings for foods?

Also, Whether polluted & unhygenic atmosphere and odd lifestyle in big
crowded cities aid/add to inflammation?

It is noted by me repeatedly that when I move to green remote area
from big crowded city, I do get better glucose control and overall
wellbeing inspite of similar(even more) eating & similar physical
activity. ??
>
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 23, 2012, 9:34:11 PM5/23/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/636e856056d28f82?
>
> Whether fatty liver is only due to VAT accumulations?

Fatty liver is simply VAT in liver.

Kumar

unread,
May 23, 2012, 11:30:39 PM5/23/12
to
On May 24, 6:34 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/636e856056d28f82?
>
> > Whether fatty liver is only due to VAT accumulations?
>
> Fatty liver is simply VAT in liver.
Whether VAT is a chronic stress to body?

Kumar

unread,
May 23, 2012, 11:24:43 PM5/23/12
to
On May 24, 6:34 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/636e856056d28f82?
>
> > Whether fatty liver is only due to VAT accumulations?
>
> Fatty liver is simply VAT in liver.
Thanks.

Whether body mechanism take VAT as a stress(chronic)?

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 24, 2012, 12:05:09 AM5/24/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
> > > > https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/636e856056d28f82?
> >
> > > Whether fatty liver is only due to VAT accumulations?
> >
> > Fatty liver is simply VAT in liver.
>
> Whether VAT is a chronic stress to body?

VAT is simply harmful to the body:

http://WDJW.net/VAT

Kumar

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May 24, 2012, 2:04:24 AM5/24/12
to
On May 24, 9:05 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Any stress to body can trigger 'fight or flight" response which is
related to inflammation, lower insulin secration, elevation of glucose
levels for extra energy need. This may suggest that if VAT is a stress
to body, such response can be triggered, chronically on chronic
stress. Hence it can explain insulin resistance....i.e. maintainance
of more energy due needed for such stress managemennt. ??

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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May 24, 2012, 5:52:14 AM5/24/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
> > > > > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/636e856056d28f82?
> >
> > > > > Whether fatty liver is only due to VAT accumulations?
> >
> > > > Fatty liver is simply VAT in liver.
> >
> > > Whether VAT is a chronic stress to body?
> >
> > VAT is simply harmful to the body:
> >
> > http://WDJW.net/VAT
>
> Any stress to body can trigger 'fight or flight" response which is
> related to inflammation, lower insulin secration, elevation of glucose
> levels for extra energy need.

VAT does not trigger a 'fight or flight' response.

VAT harms the body.

Kumar

unread,
May 24, 2012, 8:02:33 AM5/24/12
to
On May 24, 2:52 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > > > > > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/636e856056d28f82?
>
> > > > > > Whether fatty liver is only due to VAT accumulations?
>
> > > > > Fatty liver is simply VAT in liver.
>
> > > > Whether VAT is a chronic stress to body?
>
> > > VAT is simply harmful to the body:
>
> > >http://WDJW.net/VAT
>
> > Any stress to body can trigger 'fight or flight" response which is
> > related to inflammation, lower insulin secration, elevation of glucose
> > levels for extra energy need.
>
> VAT does not trigger a 'fight or flight' response.
>
> VAT harms the body.

Are VATs do not promote imflamatory cytokines?

How inflamation cause insulin resistence?
>
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 24, 2012, 7:11:35 PM5/24/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Kumar wrote:
>> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> > > Kumar wrote:
>> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> > > > > Kumar wrote:
>> > > > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/636e856056d28f82?
>>
>> > > > > > Whether fatty liver is only due to VAT accumulations?
>>
>> > > > > Fatty liver is simply VAT in liver.
>>
>> > > > Whether VAT is a chronic stress to body?
>>
>> > > VAT is simply harmful to the body:
>>
>> > > http://WDJW.net/VAT
>>
>> > Any stress to body can trigger 'fight or flight" response which is
>> > related to inflammation, lower insulin secration, elevation of glucose
>> > levels for extra energy need.
>>
>> VAT does not trigger a 'fight or flight' response.
>>
>> VAT harms the body.
>
>Are VATs do not promote imflamatory cytokines?

VAT is the primary source of the cytokines that promote harmful
inflammation in all who are eating more than the right amount, which
is 32 oz of daily food.

Kumar

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May 24, 2012, 11:56:04 PM5/24/12
to
On May 25, 4:11 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> Kumar wrote:
> >> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> > > Kumar wrote:
> >> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> > > > > Kumar wrote:
> >> > > > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/636e856056d28f82?
>
> >> > > > > > Whether fatty liver is only due to VAT accumulations?
>
> >> > > > > Fatty liver is simply VAT in liver.
>
> >> > > > Whether VAT is a chronic stress to body?
>
> >> > > VAT is simply harmful to the body:
>
> >> > >http://WDJW.net/VAT
>
> >> > Any stress to body can trigger 'fight or flight" response which is
> >> > related to inflammation, lower insulin secration, elevation of glucose
> >> > levels for extra energy need.
>
> >> VAT does not trigger a 'fight or flight' response.
>
> >> VAT harms the body.
>
> >Are VATs do not promote imflamatory cytokines?
>
> VAT is the primary source of the cytokines that promote harmful
> inflammation in all who are eating more than the right amount, which
> is 32 oz of daily food.
Thanks. How such inflammation cause insulin resistance or persistent
hyperglycemia?

It is observed that glucose level increases on infection/inflammation
which may suggest that inflammation can tend to raise & keep glucose
level elevated.??
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
Yes.
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?

Btw, not this topic related, can you tell that after angioplasty if
any person do not feel any improvement, what it suggest? Can these be
possibilties: 1. Blockade and resistance in blood flow was not so
serious before angioplasty. 2. Collateral arteries were formed and
were serving right blood flow. 3. Angioplasty not worked and done
improperly. 4. Acidosis esp. lactic bringing symptoms of tiredness,
breathing etc.
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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May 25, 2012, 5:50:34 AM5/25/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/06514ffd9c9e39dc?
>
> Thanks.

Laus Deo :-)

> How such inflammation cause insulin resistance or persistent
> hyperglycemia?

Self-destruction at the cellular level.

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?

Kumar

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May 25, 2012, 6:23:08 AM5/25/12
to
On May 25, 2:50 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/06514ffd9c9e39dc?
>
> > Thanks.
>
> Laus Deo :-)
>
> > How such inflammation cause insulin resistance or persistent
> > hyperglycemia?
>
> Self-destruction at the cellular level.
Sorry, It is not clear to me. Is it signaling the down regulation of
insulin receptors by inflammatory cytokinnes?

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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May 25, 2012, 7:31:19 AM5/25/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
> > > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/06514ffd9c9e39dc?
> >
> > > Thanks.
> >
> > Laus Deo :-)
> >
> > > How such inflammation cause insulin resistance or persistent
> > > hyperglycemia?
> >
> > Self-destruction at the cellular level.
>
> Sorry, It is not clear to me.

The root word for inflammation is flames.

There are fires (i.e. Hell) happening at the cellular level.

> Is it signaling the down regulation of
> insulin receptors by inflammatory cytokinnes?

Where there is a lot of smoke everywhere there is destructive fire
instead of someone doing some signaling.

Kumar

unread,
May 25, 2012, 7:44:14 AM5/25/12
to
On May 25, 4:31 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > > > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/06514ffd9c9e39dc?
>
> > > > Thanks.
>
> > > Laus Deo :-)
>
> > > > How such inflammation cause insulin resistance or persistent
> > > > hyperglycemia?
>
> > > Self-destruction at the cellular level.
>
> > Sorry, It is not clear to me.
>
> The root word for inflammation is flames.
>
> There are fires (i.e. Hell) happening at the cellular level.
>
> > Is it signaling the down regulation of
> > insulin receptors by inflammatory cytokinnes?
>
> Where there is a lot of smoke everywhere there is destructive fire
> instead of someone doing some signaling.
How such self destruction at cellular level cause hypeglycemia &
insulin resistance?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 25, 2012, 3:20:51 PM5/25/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Kumar wrote:
>> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> > > Kumar wrote:
>> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>
>> > > > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/06514ffd9c9e39dc?
>>
>> > > > Thanks.
>>
>> > > Laus Deo :-)
>>
>> > > > How such inflammation cause insulin resistance or persistent
>> > > > hyperglycemia?
>>
>> > > Self-destruction at the cellular level.
>>
>> > Sorry, It is not clear to me.
>>
>> The root word for inflammation is flames.
>>
>> There are fires (i.e. Hell) happening at the cellular level.
>>
>> > Is it signaling the down regulation of
>> > insulin receptors by inflammatory cytokinnes?
>>
>> Where there is a lot of smoke everywhere there is destructive fire
>> instead of someone doing some signaling.
>
> How such self destruction at cellular level cause hypeglycemia &
> insulin resistance?

Insulin resistance and hyperglycemia represent a breakdown in the
control of blood sugar.

Just as a breakdown of the walls of a sugar factory would result in
high levels of sugar on the ground, a breakdown of the body at the
cellular level results in high levels of "sugar" in the blood.

Kumar

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May 25, 2012, 11:27:31 PM5/25/12
to
On May 26, 12:20 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu>
Is it valid for all type2 diabetics or only for those who get
unintentional weight loss? It is noted that some diabetic type 2
patients loose weight, others not and still; other even gain.Whether
your telling is limited to only those type 2 diabetics who present
unintentional weight loss symptom?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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May 25, 2012, 11:48:25 PM5/25/12
to
Both insulin resistance and hyperglycemia are present in all type-2
diabetics.

Kumar

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May 26, 2012, 1:53:25 AM5/26/12
to
On May 26, 8:48 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
How this consideration of hyperglycemia due to cellular destruction is
valid in type1 diabetics?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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May 26, 2012, 7:27:07 AM5/26/12
to
Type-1 diabetics do not develop insulin resistance until they acquire
VAT by overeating.

Kumar

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May 26, 2012, 8:44:56 AM5/26/12
to
On May 26, 4:27 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Sorry, Your cellular destruction resulting hyperglycemia & IR is bit
inconsistant to other research theories. Do you mean beta cells
destruction or also muscle cells destructions?

I think degenrative damages take place after chronic functional
disorders.
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 26, 2012, 7:32:23 PM5/26/12
to
That inflammation causes destruction at the cellular level is a
commonplace observation and not a theory:

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v127/n5/full/5700811a.html

Kumar

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May 26, 2012, 9:55:52 PM5/26/12
to
On May 27, 4:32 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu>
Good article thanks. Though I felt it:-

"Though I am not qualified person but still I could note that:-

1. Can compromised healing of scar formation (esp. small wounds) be
due to anti-inflammatory & antimicrobials use? Personally I noted that
untreated small wounds heal without scar formation.

2. Can scar formation be linked to weakling or compromising of our
stem cells healing system due to modern lifestyle & environment?
However Some one indicated that inflammation & good sleep(probably
rest & digest ANS mechanism) stimulate stem cell mechanism.

3. One odd therapy i.e needling the formed scar remove scars, may
suggest encouraged inflammation due to needling stimulate stem cell
system and by preferring non microbial & non inflammatory medicine
based therapy. Probably inflammation & microbes may serve as a
needling agents.

Above are just my non technical based but dedicated observations, when
I felt it on observing a spinal injury patients whose glial scars
could not be repaired inspite of best treatments. In some cases, after
long time, if these scar show some improvements can be suggestive of
that our natural immunity or out stem cell system working. Even small
wounds take long time to heal completely without scar formation.

Hope above may help.

Best wishes"
>
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 27, 2012, 2:58:41 AM5/27/12
to
Laus Deo :-)

> Though I felt it:-
>
> "Though I am not qualified person but still I could note that:-
>
> 1. Can compromised healing of scar formation (esp. small wounds) be
> due to anti-inflammatory & antimicrobials use? Personally I noted that
> untreated small wounds heal without scar formation.

Destruction caused by inflammation at the cellular level resulting in
insulin resistance and hyperglycemia is not visible to the naked eye.

Kumar

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May 27, 2012, 6:17:43 AM5/27/12
to
On May 27, 11:58 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Yes but when no apparent weight loss is noted, how can we say that
mass cellular destruction is there?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 27, 2012, 7:52:44 AM5/27/12
to
That which is broken is not less in mass/weight.

This gentile Christian disciple enjoyed 32 oz of a delicious variety
of foods yesterday and is http://WDJW.net/WonderfullyHungry while
really satisfied (Lk6:21a) knowing that the LORD provided his body
with all the needed good food and his mind with knowing to http://WDJW.net/BeHungry
which are words from His mouth (Dt8:3). Let us continue to http://WDJW.net/BeWise
about this.

Kumar

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May 27, 2012, 11:03:58 PM5/27/12
to
On May 27, 4:52 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Then, shouldn't it show mass weight loos? Some diabetics type2 loose
weight others not even some other gain?
> This gentile Christian disciple enjoyed 32 oz of a delicious variety
> of foods yesterday and ishttp://WDJW.net/WonderfullyHungrywhile
> really satisfied (Lk6:21a) knowing that the LORD provided his body
> with all the needed good food and his mind with knowing tohttp://WDJW.net/BeHungry
> which are words from His mouth (Dt8:3). Let us continue tohttp://WDJW.net/BeWise
> about this.
>
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
" "the intrinsic nature of a substance is its true dharma[religion]."
“Dharma is nothing but the real nature of an object. Just as the
nature of fire is to burn and the nature of water is to produce a
cooling effect, in the same manner, the essential nature of the soul
is to seek self-realization and spiritual elevation.”http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism

If so, will unnatural manipulating food intake be non-religious?
Probably some purpose or some surrvival benefit in nett masy lie
behind all body working?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 28, 2012, 5:43:20 AM5/28/12
to
Again, that which has been broken (i.e. rendered dysfunctional) is not
less in mass/weight.

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:

Kumar

unread,
May 28, 2012, 6:27:48 AM5/28/12
to
On May 28, 2:43 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
How then it is cellular destruction?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 28, 2012, 7:10:11 AM5/28/12
to
Destruction at the cellular level renders the body dysfunctional (i.e.
insulin resistance and hyperglycemia).

Kumar

unread,
May 28, 2012, 11:42:19 PM5/28/12
to
On May 28, 4:10 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Do you mean cellular destruction(death) or just cellular functional
destruction?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 29, 2012, 12:09:19 AM5/29/12
to
Destruction at the cellular level by inflammation is like destruction
of the contents of a house by flames. Damaged contents have been
rendered either dysfunctional or non-functional.

Kumar

unread,
May 29, 2012, 1:42:58 AM5/29/12
to
On May 29, 9:09 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Ok. What type of this damage is there relevant to diabetes?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 29, 2012, 4:56:03 AM5/29/12
to
Smarter to put out the flames instead of surveying the damage.

Kumar

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May 29, 2012, 6:12:41 AM5/29/12
to
On May 29, 1:56 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Whether anitiinflammatory agents are beneficial to diabetics type2?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 29, 2012, 6:50:33 AM5/29/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e012c28492490c4e?

> > > > Destruction at the cellular level by inflammation is like destruction
> > > > of the contents of a house by flames. Damaged contents have been
> > > > rendered either dysfunctional or non-functional.
> >
> > > Ok. What type of this damage is there relevant to diabetes?
> >
> > Smarter to put out the flames instead of surveying the damage.
>
> Whether anitiinflammatory agents are beneficial to diabetics type2?

NSAIDs do not stop the inflammation that is causing type-2 diabetes.

The absolutely only way to stop the inflammation that is causing
type-2 diabetes is to lose the Visceral Adipose Tissue (VAT) that is
causing the inflammation.

Ace*

unread,
May 29, 2012, 9:49:04 AM5/29/12
to
On May 29, 3:12 am, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Whether anitiinflammatory agents are beneficial to diabetics type2?

You're wasting your time trying to get normal medical or scientific
answers from Dr. Chung.
He default answer is always going to be his 2PD (2-Pound-Diet)...
Which has never been endorsed by a single licensed dietitian or
nutritionist and certainly never endorsed by a credentialed diabetes
specialist or the American Diabetes Association etc., etc.

Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD

Kumar

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May 30, 2012, 3:37:42 AM5/30/12
to
Whether odd eating habits and inflammation is not related to getting
hyperglycemia & insulin resistance?

Kumar

unread,
May 30, 2012, 3:41:06 AM5/30/12
to
On May 29, 3:50 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e012c28492490c4e?
>
> > > > > Destruction at the cellular level by inflammation is like destruction
> > > > > of the contents of a house by flames. Damaged contents have been
> > > > > rendered either dysfunctional or non-functional.
>
> > > > Ok. What type of this damage is there relevant to diabetes?
>
> > > Smarter to put out the flames instead of surveying the damage.
>
> > Whether anitiinflammatory agents are beneficial to diabetics type2?
>
> NSAIDs do not stop the inflammation that is causing type-2 diabetes.
>
> The absolutely only way to stop the inflammation that is causing
> type-2 diabetes is to lose the Visceral Adipose Tissue (VAT) that is
> causing the inflammation.

Yes but while we feel that natural healing is best but still we go fo
medication programmes due to changed lifestyle. Hence we may need to
better understand medicines.

Other medicines are also prescribed to lower CRP higher levels. Will
those benefit to lower blood glucose?

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 30, 2012, 5:36:20 AM5/30/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e012c28492490c4e?
> >
> > > > > > Destruction at the cellular level by inflammation is like destruction
> > > > > > of the contents of a house by flames. Damaged contents have been
> > > > > > rendered either dysfunctional or non-functional.
> >
> > > > > Ok. What type of this damage is there relevant to diabetes?
> >
> > > > Smarter to put out the flames instead of surveying the damage.
> >
> > > Whether anitiinflammatory agents are beneficial to diabetics type2?
> >
> > NSAIDs do not stop the inflammation that is causing type-2 diabetes.
> >
> > The absolutely only way to stop the inflammation that is causing
> > type-2 diabetes is to lose the Visceral Adipose Tissue (VAT) that is
> > causing the inflammation.
>
> Yes but while we feel that natural healing is best but still we go fo
> medication programmes due to changed lifestyle. Hence we may need to
> better understand medicines.

Medicines do not stop the inflammation that is causing type-2
diabetes.

Kumar

unread,
May 30, 2012, 7:14:27 AM5/30/12
to
On May 30, 2:36 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e012c28492490c4e?
>
> > > > > > > Destruction at the cellular level by inflammation is like destruction
> > > > > > > of the contents of a house by flames. Damaged contents have been
> > > > > > > rendered either dysfunctional or non-functional.
>
> > > > > > Ok. What type of this damage is there relevant to diabetes?
>
> > > > > Smarter to put out the flames instead of surveying the damage.
>
> > > > Whether anitiinflammatory agents are beneficial to diabetics type2?
>
> > > NSAIDs do not stop the inflammation that is causing type-2 diabetes.
>
> > > The absolutely only way to stop the inflammation that is causing
> > > type-2 diabetes is to lose the Visceral Adipose Tissue (VAT) that is
> > > causing the inflammation.
>
> > Yes but while we feel that natural healing is best but still we go fo
> > medication programmes due to changed lifestyle. Hence we may need to
> > better understand medicines.
>
> Medicines do not stop the inflammation that is causing type-2
> diabetes.
Surprising. What about Pioz and anti-oxidants?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 30, 2012, 7:21:57 AM5/30/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
> > > >https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e012c28492490c4e?
> >
> > > > > > > > Destruction at the cellular level by inflammation is like destruction
> > > > > > > > of the contents of a house by flames. Damaged contents have been
> > > > > > > > rendered either dysfunctional or non-functional.
> >
> > > > > > > Ok. What type of this damage is there relevant to diabetes?
> >
> > > > > > Smarter to put out the flames instead of surveying the damage.
> >
> > > > > Whether anitiinflammatory agents are beneficial to diabetics type2?
> >
> > > > NSAIDs do not stop the inflammation that is causing type-2 diabetes.
> >
> > > > The absolutely only way to stop the inflammation that is causing
> > > > type-2 diabetes is to lose the Visceral Adipose Tissue (VAT) that is
> > > > causing the inflammation.
> >
> > > Yes but while we feel that natural healing is best but still we go fo
> > > medication programmes due to changed lifestyle. Hence we may need to
> > > better understand medicines.
> >
> > Medicines do not stop the inflammation that is causing type-2
> > diabetes.
>
> Surprising.

Not for those who have been observing the reality of worsening type-2
diabetes despite the use of medicines.

The absolutely only way to stop the inflammation that causes and
worsens type-2 diabetes is to lose the VAT:

http://WDJW.net/VAT

Kumar

unread,
May 30, 2012, 11:40:09 PM5/30/12
to
On May 29, 6:49 pm, "Ace*" <blackstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
One more problem is there with scientific current understandings that
they are not yet absolute & final and commecialisation do add to
doubts. Hence it become our duty to better understand life theretening
issues even beyond current understandings till these are declared as
absolute & final.

Kumar

unread,
May 30, 2012, 11:46:46 PM5/30/12
to
On May 30, 4:21 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
This site attribute hyperinsulinemia as a cause to getting Insulin
resistance.)Pls comment.
http://www.metabolicdiet.com/articles/article.asp?article_id=896

Whether elevated lipid profile is linked to getting VAT?

Whether VATs are formed due to overeating of carbs, fats or protiens
or otherwise?

> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 31, 2012, 12:27:58 AM5/31/12
to
Excess insulin causes hypoglycemia instead of insulin resistance.

Again, the absolutely only way to stop the inflammation that causes
and worsens type-2 diabetes is to lose the VAT.

Ace*

unread,
May 31, 2012, 3:33:44 AM5/31/12
to
On May 30, 8:46 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Whether elevated lipid profile is linked to getting VAT?
>
> Whether VATs are formed due to overeating of carbs, fats or protiens
> or otherwise?

Dr. Chung obviously has a potbelly full of VAT, due to his continuous
diet of high-starch high-fructose acidic fatty greasy fried processed
foods, which he displays of his Facebook account:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.199971148065.167331.1962558

:-)

Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD - Behavioral Science



Ace*

unread,
May 31, 2012, 3:41:25 AM5/31/12
to
On May 30, 9:27 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:

>
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:

NOTE: This statement is not supported by the American Diabetes
Association, or by any diabetes specialist recognized by the American
Diabetes association, or by any licensed dietitian or nutritionist
recognized by the American Diabetes Association. :-)

High starch diets associated with increased risk of type 2 diabetes
http://www.drbriffa.com/2010/08/06/high-starch-diets-associated-with-increased-risk-of-type-2-diabetes/

Dr. Chung's high-starch diet:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.199971148065.167331.196255898065&type=3

Kumar

unread,
May 31, 2012, 4:45:25 AM5/31/12
to
On May 31, 9:27 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Why VATs are formed?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Kumar

unread,
May 31, 2012, 6:35:18 AM5/31/12
to
Actually nothing is absolute & final even in modern scientific
understandings. So I try to better understand esp that which look
logical to me.

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
May 31, 2012, 7:10:33 AM5/31/12
to
VAT forms as a consequence of harmful overeating.

Kumar

unread,
Jun 1, 2012, 12:41:32 AM6/1/12
to
On May 31, 4:10 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Whether inflamatory cytokings from VAT can be meant for breakdown of
fats?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Ace*

unread,
Jun 1, 2012, 12:52:21 AM6/1/12
to
On May 31, 1:45 am, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Why VATs are formed?

VATs don't exist. They're just a Chinese fable designed to scare fat
people on scooters.

Ace*

unread,
Jun 1, 2012, 1:00:37 AM6/1/12
to
On May 31, 3:35 am, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Actually nothing is absolute & final even in modern scientific
> understandings. So I try to better understand esp that which look
> logical to me.

Logic is the beginning of wisdom not the end. Therefore, logic is a
little tweeting bird chirping in meadow; logic is a wreath of pretty
flowers, which smell bad.

Ace*

unread,
Jun 1, 2012, 1:03:15 AM6/1/12
to
On May 31, 4:10 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:

> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics

NOTE: This statement is not supported by the American Diabetes
Association, or by any diabetes specialist recognized by the American
Diabetes association, or by any licensed dietitian or nutritionist
recognized by the American Diabetes Association. :-)

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
Jun 1, 2012, 5:15:05 AM6/1/12
to
The pro-inflammatory adipocytokines (PIACs) from VAT are not lipases.

Kumar

unread,
Jun 1, 2012, 7:24:00 AM6/1/12
to
On Jun 1, 2:15 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Yes but what is the purpose of release of adipocytokines"

Btw, whether anto-oxidants help to decrease such inflammation?

> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
Jun 1, 2012, 7:46:01 AM6/1/12
to
To cause inflammation.

Ace*

unread,
Jun 1, 2012, 10:34:04 AM6/1/12
to
On Jun 1, 2:15 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:

> The pro-inflammatory adipocytokines (PIACs) from VAT are not lipases.

Incorrect.

> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics

Kumar

unread,
Jun 2, 2012, 3:15:52 AM6/2/12
to
On Jun 1, 4:46 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
and what is the purpose to cuse this inflammation?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
Jun 2, 2012, 3:56:53 AM6/2/12
to
"Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
diabetes) ingested on average 25 ± 10% more energy during euglycemia
(645 ± 75 vs. 483 ± 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."

Source:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full

Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
than hyperglycemia.

Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/b28f4a71a50f052c?

> >
> > > > > > VAT forms as a consequence of harmful overeating.
> >
> > > > > Whether inflamatory cytokings from VAT can be meant for breakdown of
> > > > > fats?
> >
> > > > The pro-inflammatory adipocytokines (PIACs) from VAT are not lipases.
> >
> > > Yes but what is the purpose of  release of adipocytokines"
> >
> > To cause inflammation.
>
> and what is the purpose to cuse this inflammation?

To destroy the body at the cellular level.

Ace*

unread,
Jun 2, 2012, 9:29:38 AM6/2/12
to
On Jun 2, 12:56 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
>
> Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
> hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
> than hyperglycemia.

NOTE: This statement has not been supported by the American Diabetes
Association, or by any diabetes specialist recognized by the American
Diabetes association, or by any licensed dietitian or nutritionist
recognized by the American Diabetes Association. :-)

> Kumar wrote:

>
> > and what is the purpose to cuse this inflammation?
>
> To destroy the body at the cellular level.

Incorrect.

> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics

John Williamson

unread,
Jun 2, 2012, 1:33:44 PM6/2/12
to
Ace* wrote:

<Snip twaddle>
It seems Kumar and Chunk are as daft as each other. Take a tip and
killfile them both.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Kumar

unread,
Jun 2, 2012, 10:49:05 PM6/2/12
to
On Jun 2, 12:56 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com>
wrote:
> "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
> diabetes) ingested on average 25 ± 10% more energy during euglycemia
> (645 ± 75 vs. 483 ± 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
>
> Source:http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
>
> Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
> hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
> than hyperglycemia.
As such, true disorder suggesting diabetes type2 should simply be "odd
eating predisposition"?
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/b28f4a71a50f052c?
>
>
>
> > > > > > > VAT forms as a consequence of harmful overeating.
>
> > > > > > Whether inflamatory cytokings from VAT can be meant for breakdown of
> > > > > > fats?
>
> > > > > The pro-inflammatory adipocytokines (PIACs) from VAT are not lipases.
>
> > > > Yes but what is the purpose of  release of adipocytokines"
>
> > > To cause inflammation.
>
> > and what is the purpose to cuse this inflammation?
>
> To destroy the body at the cellular level.
Can it be to destroy adiposity?

Kumar

unread,
Jun 2, 2012, 10:53:03 PM6/2/12
to
On Jun 2, 10:33 pm, John Williamson <johnwilliam...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
Sorry but logically I do not take Mr Andrew B. Chung as unresonable.
Do you feel it is not worth to be bit hungry or inflammation cause
some disorders to body. I think in diabetic type abnormal CRP is
noted. Not so??

Ace*

unread,
Jun 3, 2012, 1:49:08 AM6/3/12
to
On Jun 2, 10:33 am, John Williamson <johnwilliam...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Ace* wrote:
>
> <Snip twaddle>
> It seems Kumar and Chunk are as daft as each other.

I'm enjoying (sort of) watching them go in circles with this "who's on
first" routine.

> Take a tip and
> killfile them both.

I'm only planning on poking Andy a little in this thread.

A*


A*

Kumar

unread,
Jun 3, 2012, 2:21:27 AM6/3/12
to
On Jun 3, 10:49 am, "Ace*" <blackstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 2, 10:33 am, John Williamson <johnwilliam...@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ace* wrote:
>
> > <Snip twaddle>
> > It seems Kumar and Chunk are as daft as each other.
>
> I'm enjoying (sort of) watching them go in circles with this "who's on
> first" routine.
I am happy to note that you are enjoying.

I shall be more happy if I shall get you contributions in it. If not
then as someone said:-

"If one can't do or don't want to do should not resist others who are
not doing"

Moreover till scientific understandings will become absolute & final,
we may need to keep our eyes open for better understandings. Logics
can also help which i religious person can better get.

Ace*

unread,
Jun 3, 2012, 3:09:29 AM6/3/12
to
On Jun 2, 11:21 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 3, 10:49 am, "Ace*" <blackstu...@gmail.com> wrote:> On Jun 2, 10:33 am, John Williamson <johnwilliam...@btinternet.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Ace* wrote:
>
> > > <Snip twaddle>
> > > It seems Kumar and Chunk are as daft as each other.
>
> > I'm enjoying (sort of) watching them go in circles with this "who's on
> > first" routine.
>
> I am happy to note that you are enjoying.
>
> I shall be more happy if I shall get you contributions in it. If not
> then as someone said:-
>
> "If one can't do or don't want to do should not resist others who are
> not doing"

Who said that?

> Moreover till scientific understandings will become absolute & final,
> we may need to keep our eyes open for better understandings. Logics
> can also help which i religious person can better get.

I've yet to see logic manifested in this tread.

A*

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
Jun 3, 2012, 4:42:47 AM6/3/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
> > diabetes) ingested on average 25 ± 10% more energy during euglycemia
> > (645 ± 75 vs. 483 ± 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
> >
> > Source:http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
> >
> > Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
> > hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
> > than hyperglycemia.
>
> As such, true disorder suggesting diabetes type2 should simply be "odd
> eating predisposition"?

Being able to eat more is simply the definition of being hungrier.

Healthier people are able to eat more though they should not overeat
if they wish to become even healthier.

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:

https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4651c49ba697d8af?

Ace*

unread,
Jun 3, 2012, 5:42:51 AM6/3/12
to
On Jun 3, 1:42 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:

> Being able to eat more is simply the definition of being hungrier.
>
> Healthier people are able to eat more though they should not overeat
> if they wish to become even healthier.

Incorrect.

Myth: You Can't Be Overweight and Healthy:
http://www.obesitymyths.com/myth4.1.htm

Study: Overweight People Live Longer:
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-longer

'Overweight' people live longer than those of 'ideal' weight:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/24/overweight_live_longer/

Japanese study shows overweight people live longest:
http://phys.org/news164519566.html


> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics

NOTE: This statement is not supported by the American Diabetes
Association, or by any diabetes specialist recognized by the American
Diabetes association, or by any licensed dietitian or nutritionist
recognized by the American Diabetes Association. :-)

Hunger is Starvation:
http://www.geni.org/globalenergy/issues/global/qualityoflife/hunger/index.shtml

The world Hunger problem:
http://library.thinkquest.org/C002291/high/present/stats.htm

Hunger: A Slow and Steady Starvation:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/US/hunger-children-america-slow-steady-starvation/story?id=14328390

Kumar

unread,
Jun 4, 2012, 12:00:27 AM6/4/12
to
On Jun 3, 12:09 pm, "Ace*" <blackstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 2, 11:21 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 3, 10:49 am, "Ace*" <blackstu...@gmail.com> wrote:> On Jun 2, 10:33 am, John Williamson <johnwilliam...@btinternet.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Ace* wrote:
>
> > > > <Snip twaddle>
> > > > It seems Kumar and Chunk are as daft as each other.
>
> > > I'm enjoying (sort of) watching them go in circles with this "who's on
> > > first" routine.
>
> > I am happy to note that you are enjoying.
>
> > I shall be more happy if I shall get you contributions in it. If not
> > then as someone said:-
>
> > "If one can't do or don't want to do should not resist others who are
> > not doing"
>
> Who said that?
I think it was somewhare in pub-med. but i don't have link. Still it
appear to be quite logical.
> > Moreover till scientific understandings will become absolute & final,
> > we may need to keep our eyes open for better understandings. Logics
> > can also help which i religious person can better get.
>
> I've yet to see logic manifested in this tread.
>
> A*- Hide quoted text -

Ace*

unread,
Jun 4, 2012, 12:14:06 AM6/4/12
to
On Jun 3, 9:00 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 3, 12:09 pm, "Ace*" <blackstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 2, 11:21 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 3, 10:49 am, "Ace*" <blackstu...@gmail.com> wrote:> On Jun 2, 10:33 am, John Williamson <johnwilliam...@btinternet.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Ace* wrote:
>
> > > > > <Snip twaddle>
> > > > > It seems Kumar and Chunk are as daft as each other.
>
> > > > I'm enjoying (sort of) watching them go in circles with this "who's on
> > > > first" routine.
>
> > > I am happy to note that you are enjoying.
>
> > > I shall be more happy if I shall get you contributions in it. If not
> > > then as someone said:-
>
> > > "If one can't do or don't want to do should not resist others who are
> > > not doing"
>
> > Who said that?
>
> I think it was somewhare in pub-med. but i don't have link. Still it
> appear to be quite logical.

In what way does it logical?

A*

Kumar

unread,
Jun 4, 2012, 12:02:35 AM6/4/12
to
On Jun 3, 1:42 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > > "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
> > > diabetes) ingested on average 25 ± 10% more energy during euglycemia
> > > (645 ± 75 vs. 483 ± 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
>
> > > Source:http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
>
> > > Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
> > > hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
> > > than hyperglycemia.
>
> > As such, true disorder suggesting diabetes type2 should simply be "odd
> > eating predisposition"?
>
> Being able to eat more is simply the definition of being hungrier.
>
> Healthier people are able to eat more though they should not overeat
> if they wish to become even healthier.
Does It suggest that uptill one feel hungrier and eat due to it, he is
not sick so need no treatment?

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

unread,
Jun 4, 2012, 5:07:20 AM6/4/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
> > > > "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
> > > > diabetes) ingested on average 25 ± 10% more energy during euglycemia
> > > > (645 ± 75 vs. 483 ± 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
> >
> > > > Source:http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
> >
> > > > Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
> > > > hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
> > > > than hyperglycemia.
> >
> > > As such, true disorder suggesting diabetes type2 should simply be "odd
> > > eating predisposition"?
> >
> > Being able to eat more is simply the definition of being hungrier.
> >
> > Healthier people are able to eat more though they should not overeat
> > if they wish to become even healthier.
>
> Does It suggest that uptill one feel hungrier and eat due to it, he is
> not sick so need no treatment?

Just as the ability to smoke cigarettes never indicates a right time
to smoke, neither does the ability to eat ever indicate the right time
to eat for we should have the ability to eat all the time if we are
not dying and this ability to eat should be ever increasing if we are
becoming healthier.

Kumar

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Jun 4, 2012, 8:31:49 AM6/4/12
to
> A*- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Why to unnecessary interfere into other's doing, if we are either not
doing or not want to do. I shall welcome your contributions here.

Kumar

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Jun 4, 2012, 8:33:46 AM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 2:07 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > > > > "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
> > > > > diabetes) ingested on average 25 ± 10% more energy during euglycemia
> > > > > (645 ± 75 vs. 483 ± 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
>
> > > > > Source:http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
>
> > > > > Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
> > > > > hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
> > > > > than hyperglycemia.
>
> > > > As such, true disorder suggesting diabetes type2 should simply be "odd
> > > > eating predisposition"?
>
> > > Being able to eat more is simply the definition of being hungrier.
>
> > > Healthier people are able to eat more though they should not overeat
> > > if they wish to become even healthier.
>
> > Does It suggest that uptill one feel hungrier and eat due to it, he is
> > not sick so need no treatment?
>
> Just as the ability to smoke cigarettes never indicates a right time
> to smoke, neither does the ability to eat ever indicate the right time
> to eat for we should have the ability to eat all the time if we are
> not dying and this ability to eat should be ever increasing if we are
> becoming healthier.

Is it valid only to human specy not to other species?

Is it natural to manipulate eating by consious mind/act?
>
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4651c49ba697d8af?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Ace*

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Jun 4, 2012, 8:42:50 AM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 2:07 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:

> Being able to eat more is simply the definition of being hungrier.
>
> Healthier people are able to eat more though they should not overeat
> if they wish to become even healthier.

Incorrect.

Myth: You Can't Be Overweight and Healthy:
http://www.obesitymyths.com/myth4.1.htm

Study: Overweight People Live Longer:
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-longer

'Overweight' people live longer than those of 'ideal' weight:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/24/overweight_live_longer/

Japanese study shows overweight people live longest:
http://phys.org/news164519566.html

> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics

NOTE: This statement is not supported by the American Diabetes
Association, or by any diabetes specialist recognized by the American
Diabetes association, or by any licensed dietitian or nutritionist
recognized by the American Diabetes Association. :-)

Hunger is Starvation:
http://www.geni.org/globalenergy/issues/global/qualityoflife/hunger/index.shtml

The world Hunger problem:
http://library.thinkquest.org/C002291/high/present/stats.htm

Hunger: A Slow and Steady Starvation:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/US/hunger-children-america-slow-steady-starvation/story?id=14328390#.T8ysh80pCh0

Ace*

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Jun 4, 2012, 8:45:42 AM6/4/12
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On Jun 4, 5:31 am, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why to unnecessary interfere into other's doing, if we are either not
> doing or not want to do.

I'm still not seeing any logic in that statement.

> I shall welcome your contributions here.

Then I shall certainly continue :-)

Ace*

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Jun 4, 2012, 9:23:47 AM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 5:33 am, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Is it valid only to human specy not to other species?

Any veterinarian will tell you that an animal's eating habits can be
greatly effected by events and lifestyle. Beta male primates are often
fatter than alpha males, due to the bullied stressed betas who also
have less opportunities to mate, causing them to eat extra food as a
means of comfort and or compensation. Male animals who are neutered
often put on excess weight also.

> Is it natural to manipulate eating by consious mind/act?

Such manipulation can be achieved by way of habituation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habituation
That's how I've been able to maintain a belly girth of 31 inches (79
centimeters) for many years now. Eating a low volume comes completely
naturally to me. It's not something I think about much. It's not
something I have to keep track of or monitor or consciously maintain.
Therefore I rarely have any sort of craving for snacks or treats etc.
No desire to overeat whatsoever.

Forcing a regimented style of eating upon yourself however, is not at
all natural. Such methods as constantly weighing food will eventually
fail due to a deterioration of willpower. Dr. Chung's 2PD (2 Pound
Diet) approach is a regimented restrictive diet. And virtually all
regimented restricted diets fail. And the constant struggle to
maintain them puts a person under a considerable amount of stress and
can even lead to developing psychological problems. Quite a large
number of people on usenet seem to have come to the conclusion that
Dr. Chung was effected psychologically due to regimented restrictive
eating:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/search?group=sci.med.cardiology&q=chung+insane&qt_g=Search+this+group

I would suggest you obtain nutrition information from licensed
dietitians and nutritionists. And information regarding type-2
diabetes nutrition from the American Diabetes Association:
http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/
http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/

Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD - Behavioral Science



Kumar

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Jun 4, 2012, 10:18:37 AM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 6:23 pm, "Ace*" <blackstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 4, 5:33 am, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Is it valid only to human specy not to other species?
>
> Any veterinarian will tell you that an animal's eating habits can be
> greatly effected by events and lifestyle. Beta male primates are often
> fatter than alpha males, due to the bullied stressed betas who also
> have less opportunities to mate, causing them to eat extra food as a
> means of comfort and or compensation. Male animals who are neutered
> often put on excess weight also.
>
> > Is it natural to manipulate eating by consious mind/act?
>
> Such manipulation can be achieved by way of habituation.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habituation
> That's how I've been able to maintain a belly girth of 31 inches (79
> centimeters) for many years now. Eating a low volume  comes completely
> naturally to me. It's not something I think about much. It's not
> something I have to keep track of or monitor or consciously maintain.
> Therefore I rarely have any sort of craving for snacks or treats etc.
> No desire to overeat whatsoever.
>
> Forcing a regimented style of eating upon yourself however, is not at
> all natural. Such methods as constantly weighing food will eventually
> fail due to a deterioration of willpower. Dr. Chung's 2PD (2 Pound
> Diet) approach is a regimented restrictive diet. And virtually all
> regimented restricted diets fail. And the constant struggle to
> maintain them puts a person under a considerable amount of stress and
> can even lead to developing psychological problems. Quite a large
> number of people on usenet seem to have come to the conclusion that
> Dr. Chung was effected psychologically due to regimented restrictive
> eating:http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/search?group=sci.me...
>
> I would suggest you obtain nutrition information from licensed
> dietitians and nutritionists. And information regarding type-2
> diabetes nutrition from the American Diabetes Association:http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/
>
> Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD - Behavioral Science
I am happy to get your reply. Anyway it is necessary to manipulate
diet(excercise & stress also), which type may be different for
different patients. Though very very acurate & perfect diets based on
individual status may show better results but it can be difficult to
do it. So I think Mr Chung has prefered to suggest reduction of eating
in general so that even a common man can practice. I can't evalute
that if his recommdation can be harmful, though may not be fully
effective. Inflammation due to chronic odd diets should be possible
which may lead to insulin resistance. One more thought for persisting
hyperglycemia on somewhat continual exposure of insulin(endo/exo
genous) can be checked by following understanding:-

"Disorders of glycogen metabolismThe most common disease in which
glycogen metabolism becomes abnormal is diabetes, in which, because of
abnormal amounts of insulin, liver glycogen can be abnormally
accumulated or depleted. Restoration of normal glucose metabolism
usually normalizes glycogen metabolism as well.

In hypoglycemia caused by excessive insulin, liver glycogen levels are
high, but the high insulin level prevents the glycogenolysis necessary
to maintain normal blood sugar levels. Glucagon is a common treatment
for this type of hypoglycemia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen "

Since insulin can resist in proper brekdown of energy stores, it is
logical that body has to maintain some other store which may be needed
in some urgency(if break down of other stores are resisted by insulin)
which I feel can be by opting persisting hyperglycemia and VAT(?).
Probably VAT may serve as a quick source of getting energy. Since
there are many variations and inconsistancies in modern understandings
about diabetes and since commercialisation in slow progressing
diseases can be thoght, one may need to check better. Not so??

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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Jun 4, 2012, 2:13:43 PM6/4/12
to
Kumar wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Kumar wrote:
>> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> > > Kumar wrote:
>> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>
>> > > > > "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
>> > > > > diabetes) ingested on average 25 ą 10% more energy during euglycemia
>> > > > > (645 ą 75 vs. 483 ą 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
>>
>> > > > > Source:http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
>>
>> > > > > Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
>> > > > > hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
>> > > > > than hyperglycemia.
>>
>> > > > As such, true disorder suggesting diabetes type2 should simply be "odd
>> > > > eating predisposition"?
>>
>> > > Being able to eat more is simply the definition of being hungrier.
>>
>> > > Healthier people are able to eat more though they should not overeat
>> > > if they wish to become even healthier.
>>
>> > Does It suggest that uptill one feel hungrier and eat due to it, he is
>> > not sick so need no treatment?
>>
>> Just as the ability to smoke cigarettes never indicates a right time
>> to smoke, neither does the ability to eat ever indicate the right time
>> to eat for we should have the ability to eat all the time if we are
>> not dying and this ability to eat should be ever increasing if we are
>> becoming healthier.
>
> Is it valid only to human specy not to other species?

Yes, this analogy is valid only for humans.

Kumar

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Jun 5, 2012, 12:25:37 AM6/5/12
to
On Jun 4, 11:13 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu>
wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> Kumar wrote:
> >> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> > > Kumar wrote:
> >> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> >> > > > > "Compared with the hyperglycemic condition, the patients (with type-2
> >> > > > > diabetes) ingested on average 25 ± 10% more energy during euglycemia
> >> > > > > (645 ± 75 vs. 483 ± 37 kcal; P = 0.029)."
>
> >> > > > > Source:http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2884.full
>
> >> > > > > Yes, being able to ingest more means the type-2 diabetics were
> >> > > > > hungrier and euglycemia for type-2 diabetics is wonderfully healthier
> >> > > > > than hyperglycemia.
>
> >> > > > As such, true disorder suggesting diabetes type2 should simply be "odd
> >> > > > eating predisposition"?
>
> >> > > Being able to eat more is simply the definition of being hungrier.
>
> >> > > Healthier people are able to eat more though they should not overeat
> >> > > if they wish to become even healthier.
>
> >> > Does It suggest that uptill one feel hungrier and eat due to it, he is
> >> > not sick so need no treatment?
>
> >> Just as the ability to smoke cigarettes never indicates a right time
> >> to smoke, neither does the ability to eat ever indicate the right time
> >> to eat for we should have the ability to eat all the time if we are
> >> not dying and this ability to eat should be ever increasing if we are
> >> becoming healthier.
>
> > Is it valid only to human specy not to other species?
>
> Yes, this analogy is valid only for humans.

Why only for humans?

In some sense, acts done by consicious mind is considered to bring
cause and effect(casuality). Manipulation of diet can also be
considered as act done with concious mind. Hence how it can bring
natural effects?
>
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4651c49ba697d8af?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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Jun 5, 2012, 1:37:10 AM6/5/12
to
Other species neither smoke cigarettes nor know right from wrong.

Ace*

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Jun 5, 2012, 2:21:35 AM6/5/12
to
On Jun 4, 9:25 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > >> Just as the ability to smoke cigarettes never indicates a right time
> > >> to smoke, neither does the ability to eat ever indicate the right time
> > >> to eat for we should have the ability to eat all the time if we are
> > >> not dying and this ability to eat should be ever increasing if we are
> > >> becoming healthier.
>
> > > Is it valid only to human specy not to other species?
>
> > Yes, this analogy is valid only for humans.
>
> Why only for humans?
>
> In some sense, acts done by consicious mind is considered to bring
> cause and effect(casuality).

You are correct. Animals can become addicted to the nicotine contained
in tobacco leaves, which is the primary component of cigarets.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12110988

Consumption of addictive substances such as nicotine as well as
consumption of foods with addictive properties, is caused by
lifestyle. Lifestyle is the cause, addictive consumption is the
result.

> Manipulation of diet can also be
> considered as act done with concious mind. Hence how it can bring
> natural effects?

It can not bring natural effects. Thus conscious self imposed
restrictive manipulation by way of personal resolve will fail.
Consumption must be based on a natural involuntary lifestyle, in order
for it to become natural and permanent.

Kumar

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Jun 5, 2012, 3:38:03 AM6/5/12
to
On Jun 5, 10:37 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Does it mean that we have to manipulate with consicious mind because
we have done something wrong perviously with consicious mind..as cause
& effect?
> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4651c49ba697d8af?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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Jun 5, 2012, 7:16:17 AM6/5/12
to
It means we have free choice, which many also call free will.

Kumar

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Jun 5, 2012, 11:33:45 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 5, 4:16 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
Whetherr Free will justify, God is allmighty/omnipotent?

I think, in all manipulations with self imposede consious, first truth/
surrvival purpose in nett should be checked as this article indicate
that withholding iron can also have survival benefits:-

"Iron is an oxidant as well as a nutrient for invading microbial and
neoplastic cells. Excessive iron in specific tissues and cells (iron
loading) promotes development of infection, neoplasia, cardiomyopathy,
arthropathy, and various endocrine and possibly neurodegenerative
disorders. To contain and detoxify the metal, hosts have evolved an
iron withholding defense system, but the system can be compromised by
numerous factors. An array of behavioral, medical, and immunologic
methods are in place or in development to strengthen iron withholding.
Routine screening for iron loading could provide valuable information
in epidemiologic, diagnostic, prophylactic, and therapeutic studies of
emerging infectious diseases

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10341171 "


> Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
> diabetics and other heart disease patients:
>
> https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4651c49ba697d8af?
>
> ...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist

Kumar

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Jun 5, 2012, 11:26:26 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 5, 11:21 am, "Ace*" <blackstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 4, 9:25 pm, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > >> Just as the ability to smoke cigarettes never indicates a right time
> > > >> to smoke, neither does the ability to eat ever indicate the right time
> > > >> to eat for we should have the ability to eat all the time if we are
> > > >> not dying and this ability to eat should be ever increasing if we are
> > > >> becoming healthier.
>
> > > > Is it valid only to human specy not to other species?
>
> > > Yes, this analogy is valid only for humans.
>
> > Why only for humans?
>
> > In some sense, acts done by consicious mind is considered to bring
> > cause and effect(casuality).
>
> You are correct. Animals can become addicted to the nicotine contained
> in tobacco leaves, which is the primary component of  cigarets.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12110988
>
> Consumption of addictive substances such as nicotine as well as
> consumption of foods with addictive properties, is caused by
> lifestyle. Lifestyle is the cause, addictive consumption is the
> result.
>
> > Manipulation of diet can also be
> > considered as act done with concious mind. Hence how it can bring
> > natural effects?
>
> It can not bring natural effects. Thus conscious self imposed
> restrictive manipulation by way of personal resolve will fail.
> Consumption must be based on a natural involuntary lifestyle, in order
> for it to become natural and permanent.
>
> Dr. Brian Gene Kelley, PhD - Behavioral Science

Yes, animals become addicted due to humal interventions otherwise they
may not eat odds. Since all manipulations with self imposed conscious
can have "cause and effect".--so unnatural. Therefore true effects on
ultimate should be evalued. I have given few definitions in this topic
previously which suggest true nature or instict is true religion.

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