Low-dose naltrexone depresses B cell production; implications for autoimmunity
Kofi
Since low-dose naltrexone stimulates the opioid growth factor axis, this
indicates that LDN acts as a B-cell depletion agent similar to much more
expensive specialty drugs like Rituxan/Rituximbab and the recently
approved BLYS/BAFF inhibitor for lupus (Benlysta?). Thus LDN may be
broadly appropriate not just for cancer but also for autoimmunity
because of its broad actions on the Opioid Growth Factor Receptor system.
Compare this with my previous posting on the role of butyrate in
enkephalin production. This links autoimmunity and cancer back to
bacterial fermentation products in the gut.
Immunobiology. 2011 Jan-Feb;216(1-2):173-83. Epub 2010 Jun 11
B lymphocyte proliferation is suppressed by the opioid growth
factor-opioid growth factor receptor axis: Implication for the treatment
of autoimmune diseases.
* Zagon IS,
* Donahue RN,
* Bonneau RH,
* McLaughlin PJ.
Department of Neural and Behavioral Sciences, The Pennsylvania State
University, College of Medicine, Hershey, PA, USA.
Endogenous opioids are known to repress the incidence and progression of
autoimmune diseases. One native opioid peptide, [Met]-enkephalin, termed
the opioid gowth factor (OGF), interacts with the OGF receptor (OGFr) to
suppress the expression of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis.
The present study examined the role of the OGF-OGFr axis in the
regulation of B lymphocyte proliferation. Murine B lymphocytes were
stimulated with lipopolysaccharide. Both OGF and OGFr were present in
all B lymphocytes. OGF had a dose-dependent effect on growth, with cell
number inhibited by up to 43% at 72 h; no other synthetic or native
opioid altered cell proliferation. Exogenous OGF depressed cell number
in cultures treated with siRNAs for the classical opioid receptors, MOR
(mu), DOR (delta), and KOR (kappa), however this peptide had no effect
in preparations exposed to siRNA for OGFr. The decrease in cell number
by exogenous OGF was dependent on p16 or p21 cyclin-dependent inhibitory
kinase pathways. Exposure to the opioid antagonist, naltrexone, did not
change cell number from control levels. These results suggest that the
OGF-OGFr axis is present and functional in B lymphocytes, but this
system is not an autocrine regulator of cell proliferation. Thus, at
least exogenous OGF and perhaps endogenous OGF by paracrine/endocrine
sources, can be an immunosuppressant. Modulation of the OGF-OGFr axis
may be a novel paradigm for the treatment of autoimmune diseases.
Copyright (c) 2010 Elsevier GmbH. All rights reserved.
PMID: 20598772
The opioid growth factor (OGF) regulates cell proliferation of human
cancer cells through the cyclin-dependent kinase inhibitory pathway,
with mediation of this action by the OGF receptor (OGFr). The ubiquity
of the OGF-OGFr axis in human cancer is unknown. We used 31 human cancer
cell lines, representative of more than 90% of neoplasias occurring in
humans, and found that OGF and OGFr were detected in the cytoplasm and
nucleus by immunohistochemistry. The addition of OGF to cultures
depressed cell number up to 41%, whereas naltrexone (NTX) increased cell
proliferation by up to 44%, a total of 85% in the modulating capacity
for the OGF-OGFr axis. Neutralization of OGF by specific antibodies led
to a marked increase in cell number. Knockdown of OGFr by OGFr-siRNA
resulted in a significant increase in the number of cells, even in the
face of the addition of exogenous OGF. The cultures to which NTX was
added and subjected to OGFr-siRNA were similar to those with OGF-siRNA
alone. The OGF-OGFr axis, a physiological determinant of
cell-proliferative activity, is a ubiquitous feature of human cancer
cells. The identification of this native biological system in neoplasia
may be important in understanding the pathophysiology of neoplasia, and
in designing treatment modalities that utilize the body's own chemistry
[PMID 19675283]
Butyrate is a diet-derived, gut fermentation product with an array of
effects on cultured mammalian cells including inhibition of
proliferation, induction of differentiation and regulation of gene
expression. We showed that physiological concentrations of butyrate can
regulate transcription of tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) and preproenkephalin
(ppEnk) gene in PC12 cells. In promoter deletion studies,
electrophoretic mobility shift assays and by site-directed mutagenesis,
we identified a novel butyrate response element (BRE) in the 5' upstream
region of the rat TH gene, homologous to the previously mapped motif in
the ppEnk promoter. No such enhancers were found in DBH or PNMT
promoters, and both catecholamine system-related gene promoters were
unaffected by butyrate. The BRE motif interacts with nuclear proteins in
a sequence-specific manner, shows binding potentiation in
butyrate-differentiated PC12 cells and bound protein(s) are competed
away with TH-CRE oligonucleotides or by the addition of CREB-specific
antibodies, suggesting involvement of CREB or CREB-related transcription
factors. Moreover, single point mutation in the distal BRE abolished
binding of transcription factors and reduced the response to butyrate in
transient transfection studies. The canonical CRE motif of the TH
promoter was also found necessary for transcriptional activation of the
TH gene by butyrate. Our data identified a novel functional element in
the promoter of both the TH and ppEnk genes mediating transcriptional
responses to butyrate. Dietary butyrate may have an extended role in the
control of catecholamine and endogenous opioid production at the level
of TH and ppEnk gene transcription neuronal plasticity, cardiovascular
functions, stress adaptation and behavior [PMID 16165221]
Accelerated maturation of peripheral sympathoadrenal transmitter levels
and function occurs at 7-10 postnatal days in the rat. This event is
temporally disconnected from the timing of major changes in physiologic
stimuli evident after the birthing process (i.e. temperature, oxygen,
sound, light, etc.). Colonization of the gut, fermentation of
carbohydrates, and production of short-chain fatty acids (e.g. butyrate)
mirrors this postnatal time course. In this report, we examined the
interaction between butyrate differentiation of rat pheochromocytoma
cells and cholinergic-nicotinic induction of the neuropeptide
(enkephalin) and catecholamine-related biosynthetic enzymes (tyrosine
hydroxylase, dopamine beta-hydroxylase, phenylethanolamine
N-methyltransferase). Our results show that butyrate induces both
preproenkephalin and tyrosine hydroxylase mRNA through a proximal
promoter region and that this regulatory step is time and dose
dependent. Moreover, there is an additional interaction with
cholinergic-nicotinic inducible mechanisms consistent with classically
described transsynaptic cholinergic regulation of these genes. Dopamine
beta-hydroxylase and phenylethanolamine N-methyltransferase promoters
were not affected by butyrate treatment. We speculate that colonization
of the human gut (along with the attendant fermentation of enteral
carbohydrates to short-chain fatty acids) may represent a mechanism
through which environmental signals affect postnatal maturation of
sympathoadrenal transmitter systems [PMID 12508089]
lon
Thanks for posting this information..I noted that LDN also is a TLR4
inhibitor...
Do you post on any forums ?
Id like to converse more on the subject of Autoimmunity if I may.
TIA
Kofi
<k...@noyu.com> wrote:
> Hi Kofi
>
> Thanks for posting this information..I noted that LDN also is a TLR4
> inhibitor...
If you're refering to a study on neuropathic pain [PMID 18662331], this
was done - I believe - at a full dose. The effects might be reversed or
unnoticeable at a 10% dose.
FYI, if you want to reduce your TLR4 activation, improve your insulin
sensitivity and/or reduce your palmitate consumption through diet.
> Do you post on any forums ?
I'm posting on these forums.
lon
According to Dr. Sean Mackey, assistant professor of anesthesia at the
Stanford University Medical Center LDN blocks TLR4...?! see the video link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jtc2JARVpPw#t=2701s
I know you have said that B Cell production will likely depress on
LDN...a guy kept a record for 10 years of Blood tests (he was on LDN for
the last 2.5 years) CD4/8 and CD19 and NK were graphed....he wrote
"B-cells have been completely unaffected throughout.
"
see here for the graphs.
http://www.users.on.net/~julian.robinson/cfs/naltrexone-graphs.htm
and his experience with LDN
http://www.users.on.net/~julian.robinson/cfs/naltrexone.htm
Thanks for the palmitate tip !
Off topic have you posted anywhere your food/diet/supplement regime..?
I remember you were taking S.Butyrate (have you looked tributyrate?) and
Carnitine..
Also have you looked at Fecal Transplantation.
Cheers
Kofi
<k...@noyu.com> wrote:
> Off topic have you posted anywhere your food/diet/supplement regime..?
I try a lot of different things. I find methylators/homocysteine
antagonists quite helpful for neuropathy and inflammation. I've been on
an intermittent fast for quite some time. Glutamine, choline (Perque),
molybdenum, alpha-ketoglutaric acid and inulin are helpful.
lon
Thanks for sharing your trials
Not to get to deep.(almost impossible however) Ive 4x Autoimmune
Diseases (B27+) ..part of that I have no stomach acid due to
Autoimmunity..tried LDN worked for 6 weeks then worse...tried lower dose
again not so good.. my neuropathy has increased over the years as has
fatigue and pain.
Also cholesterol is abnormal (metabolic issues ...tied to autoimmunity ??)
My thoughts at the moment is Fecal transplant may help....my issues
started with intermittant stomach cramps and evacuation that would occur
seemingly at random once a month at least..years later camplyobacter and
zoster close together(after which the intermittent stomach problem went
away)..after that Autoimmunity kicked in big time.
Im currently taking B complex B100 2x day and just started Niacin B3
600mg per day..seems to help with Neuropathy a bit but its to early to tell.
I eat yoghurt everyday..been turned down for SCT on grounds of multiple
autoimmunity (ethics committee say no)
Do we have an ongoing infection/s or is our immune system compromised by
previous infections ?...DNA floating around ? I noted bacterial DNS
found in Synovial Fluid.
What Methylators/homocysteine antagonists do you use ?
Why the Alpha-ketoglutaric acid.?
I was about to trial Sodium Butyrate..however I recall that you thought
it gave rise to your latent viruses reactivating is that right ?
If so what mechanism could have caused that to happen ?
Vanny
You might find that the answer is even easier and cheaper. Here are some
thoughts for you to discuss with your doctor:
No stomach acid means that you are unable to digest your food properly
and it will over time lead to malabsorption of several vitamins and some
nutrients. Popping vitamin pills will not have the desired effect in the
absence of stomach acid.
http://www.best-home-remedies.com/digestive_system/malabsorption_syndrome.htm
Vitamin B12 is absorbed at the terminal ileum complexed with intrinsic
factor. Low stomach acid means low intrinsic factor means vitamin B12
deficiency: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_factor
Manifestations of neuropathy in the absence/near absence of stomach acid
are most likely due to vitamin B12 deficiency, any damage is
irreversible:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1197979/Heartburn-pills-wrecked-life-How-antacids-effects.html
Vitamin B12 should always be substituted together folic acid either
sublingually or better by injection or infusion.
Read up about the side-effects of vitamin and mineral deficiencies:
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/list-VitaminsMinerals/
For example:
- Vitamin B12 deficiency leads to irreversible nerve damage,
- Underactive thyroid in the absence of Hashimoto's or similar is most
likely due to selenium deficiency,
- Low potassium levels can lead to high blood pressure.
The K factor:
http://www.drpasswater.com/nutrition_library/Potassium%20_to%20_Sodium_Ratio.html
I suggest that you do your own research on the above and then discuss a
strategy with your doctor prior to making any major changes.
Whatever you do, do not overdose on vitamins. Overdose can be associated
with certain cancers.
All the best,
Vanny
lon
I should have mentioned Im on B12 (methyl sublingual) I take 1000mg a
day...I noticed an improvement a few years ago when I first
started..however the B12 alone is not helping as much as Id like.
My B12 levels are above highest range.
Since higher dose B3 and B100 complex..Ive felt a little better.
I believe that most (if not all) of my autoimmune issues are gut
mediated...hence my thoughts on trialling a fecal transplant.
However Im interested to know why bacteria dna are seen in peoples
joints...has it escaped from the gut ???
If there is an ongoing infection in these diseases then treating with
TNF alpha inhibitors for example would be a bad idea in the long run.
I feel there is a convergence in research even if not intentionally
...and hope to see something definitive ....perhaps there is no such
thing as Autoimmunity ???
Vanny
something that many doctors consider. Sorry, if I didn't read your
e-mail properly. I ended up with severe neuropathy last October and it
was due to B12 deficiency so I am very atuned to this.
Perhaps, your neuropathy is there to stay as a result of previous
damage, but perhaps it is more muscular/skeletal and you could look in
the first instance at your intake of potassium, calcium, vitamin D,
magnesium, vitamin C, copper, zinc, molybdenum, manganese and phosphate.
Obviously, with the input from your doctors. Sport can also be a very
good thing if you are able to exert yourself.
Have you been checked for gout? I had gout as a side-effect of
chemotherapy with 5-Mercaptopurine (aka Purinethol).
If you supplement with zinc already then you might be copper deficient -
zinc prevents dietary uptake of copper. I wear a medicinal copper
bangle, without which I have very bad joint and muscle pains.
Are you sensitive to food additives, perhaps? I have tried to eliminate
these from my diet, but most of my medication and supplements have some
additives in them, unfortunately.
I spent 18 days in hospital at the end of April/beginning of May and
noticed that my hair loss was negligible in hospital - they had me on
vitamin infusions every day for malabsorption syndrome (aka short bowel
syndrome aka intestinal failure) due to multiple Crohn's operations.
Thus, I have doubled my B-complex intake but without the infusions it is
impossible for me to attain the required metabolic balance. I don't eat
fast food as a rule, but do the healthy alternative home-cooked food and
freeze batches to ensure that I have something to eat when I am too weak
to cook from scratch.
I have just read (as I was putting together the references for you) that
each of us have around a dozen chronic infections, which is part of the
rich tapestry of life.
Bacteria in joints can travel through hairline cracks in the skin, but
also through the blood and lymphatic systems. So bacteria in a damaged
gut could well end up in the joints. A doctor once explained the
presence of extraintestinal symptoms in Crohn's patients through the
blebbing off of Crohn's granulomas (inflammatory mass of a mixture of
own immune cells, antibodies, gut cells, and gut flora and fauna) from
the gut, which then freely circulate in the body and often land in the
eyes (iritis/uveitis), joints (arthralgias), liver (hepatitis), etc. It
is the same concept as metastising cancer and we know that cancer can
end up all over the place.
You might like to do some reading around:
'Infectious Burden Concept' aka 'Pathogen Burden Concept'.
For example:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/104/1/25
http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/20/6/1417
In a nutshell the older one is, the more infectious agents one has been
exposed to, some of which have been shown to have considerable influence
on illness in later life. For example, the presence of bacteria in
artherosclerotic plaques, the correlation between certain cancers and
virus infections, etc.
Vanny
Vanny
deficiencies can cause hair loss, and I have malabsorption, so I must
discuss that with my doctor at my next appointment:
http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Nutritional_deficiencies_-_What_signs_to_look_for_if_you_think_you_may_have_them
lon
Yeah Ive got Gastric Parietal Antibodies so B12 and malabsorption is an
issue...also for the last 4 months Ive had to supplement Iron to keep it
above very low levels...looks like so called Autoimmune Gastritis is
becoming.
Your thoughts and the links you have provided...I agree!!...its a
combination of a collective Pathogen Accumulation Burden and mix of
Susceptible Genetics and Environment(not forgetting things like
Asbestos/Pesticides etc etc..we have with living our life found the
combination to our susceptibility.
Here is a link from a Prof who also has similar thoughts...although for
R.Arthritis its the same deal.
Commensal Gut Bacteria and the Etiopathogenesis of Rheumatoid Arthritis
http://www.jrheum.com/subscribers/08/08/1477.html
Im looking into Fecal Transplantation at the moment and have an appt
with the Borody group. From what I can tell it has a good a chance of
any of helping....would be more confident if we could understand what
species we need to commence normality in the gut for our certain
genome...pick 'n' mix the right bacteria and implant them in the GI
system..who knows...maybe one day.
Kofi
<k...@noyu.com> wrote:
>
> I believe that most (if not all) of my autoimmune issues are gut
> mediated...
Yes.
> However Im interested to know why bacteria dna are seen in peoples
> joints...has it escaped from the gut ???
You've got bacteria everywhere in the body. The question is when does
it become a pathological burden.
>
> If there is an ongoing infection in these diseases then treating with
> TNF alpha inhibitors for example would be a bad idea in the long run.
Not necessarily. One of the things TNF-alpha does is interfere with
vitamin D. Just because one branch of the immune system is overactive
doesn't mean that it's the one you want fighting the infection.
> I feel there is a convergence in research even if not intentionally
> ...and hope to see something definitive ....perhaps there is no such
> thing as Autoimmunity ???
No, there's definitely autoimmunity.
If you've got it, helminths (www.ovamed.de) might help.
> >> Thanks for sharing your trials
> >> Not to get to deep.(almost impossible however) Ive 4x Autoimmune
> >> Diseases (B27+) ..part of that I have no stomach acid due to
> >> Autoimmunity..tried LDN worked for 6 weeks then worse...tried lower
> >> dose
> >> again not so good.. my neuropathy has increased over the years as has
> >> fatigue and pain.
> >> Also cholesterol is abnormal (metabolic issues ...tied to autoimmunity
> >> ??)
With your stomach acid issues, you might have to inject many medicines
you would take orally. I really don't know how to address that.
> >>
> >> My thoughts at the moment is Fecal transplant may help....my issues
> >> started with intermittant stomach cramps and evacuation that would
> >> occur
> >> seemingly at random once a month at least..years later camplyobacter
> >> and
> >> zoster close together(after which the intermittent stomach problem
> >> went
> >> away)..after that Autoimmunity kicked in big time.
Tried the zoster vaccine? The transplant sounds like it's promising.
> >>
> >> Im currently taking B complex B100 2x day and just started Niacin B3
> >> 600mg per day..seems to help with Neuropathy a bit but its to early to
> >> tell.
> >> I eat yoghurt everyday..been turned down for SCT on grounds of
> >> multiple
> >> autoimmunity (ethics committee say no)
What do you mean by SCT?
> >> Do we have an ongoing infection/s or is our immune system compromised
> >> by
> >> previous infections ?
Usually all of these.
> >> What Methylators/homocysteine antagonists do you use ?
Creatine (which might be antiviral), betaine (TMG), folinic acid
(Leucovorin), methycobalamin... pretty much any and all of them.
> >> Why the Alpha-ketoglutaric acid.?
> >>
> >> I was about to trial Sodium Butyrate..however I recall that you
> >> thought
> >> it gave rise to your latent viruses reactivating is that right ?
> >> If so what mechanism could have caused that to happen ?
It has to do with the way butyrate affects histone acetylation in cells
and genetic transcription. The viruses are in a fight for access to
nuclear DNA. Viruses also chew up folic acid and certain fatty acids
(via FAS).
> >
> > No stomach acid means that you are unable to digest your food properly
> > and it will over time lead to malabsorption of several vitamins and
> > some
> > nutrients. Popping vitamin pills will not have the desired effect in
> > the
> > absence of stomach acid.
> > http://www.best-home-remedies.com/digestive_system/malabsorption_syndrom
> > e.htm
> >
> >
> > Vitamin B12 is absorbed at the terminal ileum complexed with intrinsic
> > factor. Low stomach acid means low intrinsic factor means vitamin B12
> > deficiency: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_factor
> >
Yup. One of the problems: homocysteine blocks GABAergic channels, which
can be addressed (partially) with the anti-epileptic ketogenic diet.
> >
> > I suggest that you do your own research on the above and then discuss a
> > strategy with your doctor prior to making any major changes.
Get a vitamin, mineral, enzyme & amino acid panel done. FYI,
autoantibodies to intrinsic factor, etc. can leave you with normal B12
readings even when deficient. Try daily shots of methylcobalamin to see
how it helps.
You can also get into a similar situation with folinic acid. Just try
the shots to see what works.
Kofi
<Vann...@antispam.com> wrote:
> I am pleased that you have your vitamins under control. It is not
> something that many doctors consider. Sorry, if I didn't read your
> e-mail properly. I ended up with severe neuropathy last October and it
> was due to B12 deficiency so I am very atuned to this.
While it's got side effects, you might want to try 1-3g of
acetyl-l-carnitine daily. Neuropathy isn't necessarily permanent. This
much ALCAR should stimulate neuroregeneration (and quash autoimmune
inflammation and have an anabolic effect on the gut).
lon
> One of the things TNF-alpha does is interfere with
> vitamin D. Just because one branch of the immune system is overactive
> doesn't mean that it's the one you want fighting the infection.
So its not a good idea to add D supp ??
> If you've got it, helminths (www.ovamed.de) might help.
Ahh yes indeed..Ive trialled Hookworm for a couple of years...however i
seem to be immune to them....note I never got worms as a kid (lived on a
farm btw..hygiene hypothesis does not apply to me at least)
I had wondered if my low/no stomach acid gut environment was the cause
...YET research hot off the press thinks some of us are immune to
Helminths...see
"Scientists have discovered why some people may be protected from
harmful parasitic worms naturally while others cannot in what could lead
to new therapies for up to one billion people worldwide"
“We previously found that mice that were able to expel this whipworm
from the gut that made mucus. Importantly, the mucus from these mice
contained the mucin, Muc5ac. This mucin is rarely present in the gut,
but when it is, it alters the physical properties of the mucus gel.”
“Furthermore, we discovered the reason for the importance of Muc5ac is
that it is ‘toxic’ for the worms and damages their health.”
http://www.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/news/display/?id=7008
> Tried the zoster vaccine? The transplant sounds like it's promising.
Fecal Transplant aka as Human Probiotic Infusion has put someone with MS
into remission.
Download/listen to Borody and MS patient here:
"The Power Of Poop"
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/audio.wnyc.org/freakonomics_podcast/freakonomics_podcast030211.mp3
Zoster Vaccine..do you mean the vaccine for Shingles or ...do you think
it might tame the immune system a little ? ..wondered if it could make
it worse.
> What do you mean by SCT?
Autogulous Stem Cell Transplant - Rebooting of The Immune System..
Denied on ethical grounds. (means no one has ever done it before for
Multiple Autoimmunity so no proof of dollar cost value)
My thought is that it is unethical not to try.
> Methylators/homocysteine antagonists:
> Creatine (which might be antiviral), betaine (TMG), folinic acid
> (Leucovorin), methycobalamin... pretty much any and all of them.
Doesnt TMG raise cholesterol though?
> Get a vitamin, mineral, enzyme & amino acid panel done. FYI,
> autoantibodies to intrinsic factor, etc. can leave you with normal B12
> readings even when deficient. Try daily shots of methylcobalamin to see
> how it helps.
>
> You can also get into a similar situation with folinic acid. Just try
> the shots to see what works.
Thanks I do need a comprehensive check of all levels...yet our
mainstream medical service wont go as far as these panels..then left
with private companies who I wonder if I can trust....anyone in
Australia who could recommend a testing company.
Kofi
<k...@noyu.com> wrote:
> > One of the things TNF-alpha does is interfere with
> > vitamin D. Just because one branch of the immune system is overactive
> > doesn't mean that it's the one you want fighting the infection.
>
> So its not a good idea to add D supp ??
I'm saying that in Crohn's disease, your vitamin D doesn't work properly
because TNF-alpha is elevated. TNF-alpha inhibitors are, essentially,
resensitizing you to vitamin D3. Of course, you may also have to take
some D3 too.
> Zoster Vaccine..do you mean the vaccine for Shingles or ...do you think
> it might tame the immune system a little ? ..wondered if it could make
> it worse.
Shingles vaccine.
>
> > What do you mean by SCT?
>
> Autogulous Stem Cell Transplant - Rebooting of The Immune System..
> Denied on ethical grounds. (means no one has ever done it before for
> Multiple Autoimmunity so no proof of dollar cost value)
To do a clean reboot, you have to kill preexisting B cells which would
totally erase your memory system. With ongoing infections, this would
be quite dangerous.
However, nothing prevents you from using myeloid suppressor cells that
can be extracted and expanded from bone marrow/blood.
> > Methylators/homocysteine antagonists:
> > Creatine (which might be antiviral), betaine (TMG), folinic acid
> > (Leucovorin), methycobalamin... pretty much any and all of them.
>
> Doesnt TMG raise cholesterol though?
Beats me.
lon
>
> While it's got side effects, you might want to try 1-3g of
> acetyl-l-carnitine daily. Neuropathy isn't necessarily permanent. This
> much ALCAR should stimulate neuroregeneration (and quash autoimmune
> inflammation and have an anabolic effect on the gut).
Darn Ive got a tub of L-Carnitine..I guess it has to be Alcar ?!
Kofi
<k...@noyu.com> wrote:
Only if you're looking to regenerate peripheral nerves. Other forms of
carnitine reduce inflammation and help nerves survive stress but they
don't activate the p75 low-affinity nerve growth factor receptor which
causes damaged peripheral nerves to regenerate.
lon
peoples experiences...I have tried it on several occasions.....at one
moment it was better than anything..but then after 5-6 weeks we went
backwards...there is no doubt it has major physiological effects on the
body yet I cannot grasp what causes negative effects.
The LDN forums always say one has Yeast issues..but that is not an issue
for me.
Does the body start to get used to the increase in endorphins like
opiates ? ...any positive effects from endorphin increase become less
and less effective over time..
Im currently wondering if every other day dosing may be of benefit
Kofi
<k...@noyu.com> wrote:
> @Kofi Do you or @Everyone here take or have tried LDN ?
I take 4.5mg daily. I haven't really noticed any shift in my rate of
common infections (e.g., sinusitis) except for the better, until
recently when I developed a root canal problem. I would expect any B
cell depletion approach to increase your infection risk because you're
depleting memory cells.
Then again, autoantibodies often worsen infection risk because certain
pathogens take advantage of an inflammatory environment to spread...
>....interested in
> peoples experiences...I have tried it on several occasions.....at one
> moment it was better than anything..but then after 5-6 weeks we went
> backwards...there is no doubt it has major physiological effects on the
> body yet I cannot grasp what causes negative effects.
Nothing's stopping you from spreading out the dose (e.g., every other
day).
>
> The LDN forums always say one has Yeast issues..but that is not an issue
> for me.
Well, I wouldn't mix a mold problem with dietary sugar in the first
place. If you have yeast, there are a number of different things you
have to do to manage it. I really can't speculate on all the possible
interactions but it sounds like you might have a chronic infection of
some type that doesn't react well to LDN.
>
> Does the body start to get used to the increase in endorphins like
> opiates ? ...any positive effects from endorphin increase become less
> and less effective over time..
I've never heard of tolerance on LDN. In fact, it's supposed to
undermine the development of tolerance.
lon
> I would expect any B
> cell depletion approach to increase your infection risk because you're
> depleting memory cells.
Thanks very much for your thoughts on LDN Kofi
Is it possible for you to get a B cell level check next blood draw...its
curious to know for sure if B Cell depletion is occuring.
I know the guy who took LDN for years did not see CD19 drop.
If I trial it again (and most probably will) I will push for B cell
Panel Assay.
>
> Well, I wouldn't mix a mold problem with dietary sugar in the first
> place. If you have yeast, there are a number of different things you
> have to do to manage it. I really can't speculate on all the possible
> interactions but it sounds like you might have a chronic infection of
> some type that doesn't react well to LDN.
The problem is knowing if Yeast is the problem as I cant see any visual
yeast issues ..how can one test for a Yeast problem other than the
external visual check.
What I do have is a low grade inside mouth infection ..redness near back
of mouth..which wont go away completely..reduces with mouthwash but
comes back..if it were yeast Id expect white spots..so probably some
strep or such bacteria.