Amazing Coincidences
Yahya M
Arabic akh 'brother' -- Mongolian akh 'brother'.
English bad -- Persian bad 'bad'.
Elamite hih 'fire' -- Japanese hi 'fire'.
Sumerian lu 'human' -- Burmese lu 'human'
Urdu mahina 'month' -- Hawaiian mahina 'moon, month'.
Mordvin pey 'head' -- Nahali pey 'head'.
Italian sette 'seven' -- Sakha (Yakut) sette 'seven'.
Hebrew yam 'sea', Arabic yamm 'sea' -- Samoyed yam 'sea'.
NEAR MISSES
Russian gora 'mountain, hill' -- Konda goRo 'hill, mountain'.
Finnish maa 'earth' -- Tamil maN 'earth'.
Finnish pää 'head' -- Lakota pa 'head' -- Hawaiian po'o 'head'.
Greek pneu- 'to breathe, blow' -- Klamath pniw- 'to blow'.
Turkish qayiq 'small boat' -- Eskimo qayaq 'small boat'.
Etruscan sekh 'daughter' -- Tlingit sik 'daughter'.
English sun -- Manchu shun 'sun'.
Irish tine 'fire' -- Lenape (Delaware) tindey 'fire'.
YIN/YANG REVERSALS
Spanish (et al.) mama 'mother' -- Georgian mama 'father'.
Arabic su' 'evil' -- Sanskrit su 'good'
Basque su 'fire' -- Turkish su 'water'.
Malay tak 'no' -- Polish tak 'yes'.
(This is all I have so far. Anybody know any others?)
mith...@indiana.edu
Yahya M wrote:
> AMAZING COINCIDENCES
>
> Arabic akh 'brother' -- Mongolian akh 'brother'.
Classical Mongolian aqu.
> Elamite hih 'fire' -- Japanese hi 'fire'.
Japanese going back to *pi, I think it is.
> Turkish qayiq 'small boat' -- Eskimo qayaq 'small boat'.
Miller argues that this is in fact a wanderword that also shows up in
Japanese kai 'rudder.'
> English sun -- Manchu shun 'sun'.
Proto-Tungusic *sIgun.
> (This is all I have so far. Anybody know any others?)
Off the top of my head:German nehmen 'take' -- Manchu neme-
'take'English whole -- Greek holo-
Modern Greek mati 'eye' -- same in some Polynesian language (Ross
Clark?)
Korean /manhi/ [mani] -- English many
Korean ttOng -- English dung
Korean /mwOs/ [mwOt] English what
Korean ne 'yes' -- Modern Greek ne 'yes'
Korean ye 'yes' -- English yeah
(As for this last, I found buried in the library here a very odd little
book which argued that Koreans are in fact displaced Europeans; this
pair of words is the only piece of evidence I was able to read for
laughing so hard.)
Then there's the amusing pair in English, "cook" and "cookie." "Cook"
is a loanword from Latin coqu-, while "cookie" is a borrowing of Dutch
koekje, diminutive of koek, which is cognate with English "cake."
One that's quite interesting, though I don't have access right now to
the full word, is the Nahuatl for 'eleven,' which is composed of two
words, the second one being 'once'. You'd suspect on first glance that
this is a borrowing from Spanish, but it's not; it means something like
"plus one" (where ce means 'one'), and also occurs in the names for 21,
31, etc. And then there's teoh- [teo?-] 'god' (cf. Latin deus), which
some Nahuacentrists use as evidence that the ancient Mexicans colonized
the Mediterranean three millennia ago and taught Europeans the true
religion, which of course they then bastardized. They also use various
place names to support the argument that the ancient Mexicans colonized
the entire world--Michigan, for example, is almost exactly the same as
"michican", which would be Nahuatl for 'place with fish.' (They don't
call Lake Michigan the sportsman's paradise for nothing, ya know.) And
since Nahuatl only has voiceless stops, intervocalic /k/ <c> often
voices to [g].
One that I noticed some time ago is Evenki mo:ti 'moose' and Cree mot(w)
'moose,' which conceivably is a loanword, though I've never looked into
it. (The English is, of course, a loan from Algonquian, thus the
resemblance to the cree is, of course, not accidental.)
Mikael Thompson
mith...@indiana.edu
mith...@indiana.edu wrote:
> One that I noticed some time ago is Evenki mo:ti 'moose' and Cree mot(w)
> 'moose,' which conceivably is a loanword, though I've never looked into
> it. (The English is, of course, a loan from Algonquian, thus the
> resemblance to the cree is, of course, not accidental.)
A loanword through (or independently in both languages from) one of the
Esquimaux languages, I mean to suggest. Easy enough to test--what is the
word in Aleut or Inuit? And what is the proto-Algonquian? (I don't think
it's attested in other Tungusic languages, which is also pertinent if so.)
MAT
Chris S.
mith...@indiana.edu wrote:
> Korean /manhi/ [mani] -- English many
> Korean ttOng -- English dung
> Korean /mwOs/ [mwOt] English what
> Korean ne 'yes' -- Modern Greek ne 'yes'
> Korean ye 'yes' -- English yeah
Also....
Korean's "wae" /wE/ and English's "why?"
--Chris
--
...Mabuhay...
Visit / Visitez http://www.game-master.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Chris S.
yah...@aol.com (Yahya M) wrote:
> NEAR MISSES
Tagalog's "susu" meaning "breast"
and Indonesian's "susu" meaning "milk"
Tagalog's "ito" meaning "this"
Indonesian's "itu" meaning "that"
Japanese's "sou desu ka?"
English's "is that so?"
Tagalog's "palaka" meaning "frog"
Hawaiian's "poloka" meaning the same thing. Even though they're both
Malay-Polynesian languages, my dictionary says "poloka" comes from
English.
Yusuf B Gursey
: Yahya M wrote:
: > AMAZING COINCIDENCES
: >
: > Arabic akh 'brother' -- Mongolian akh 'brother'.
in compounds a*kh*u:- !
: Classical Mongolian aqu.
ruhlen considiers it proto-world
: > Turkish qayiq 'small boat' -- Eskimo qayaq 'small boat'.
sinor has an article and finds an identity in the two words as well.
: Miller argues that this is in fact a wanderword that also shows up in
: Japanese kai 'rudder.'
: Mikael Thompson
Yusuf B Gursey
: AMAZING COINCIDENCES
: Arabic akh 'brother' -- Mongolian akh 'brother'.
ruhlen: proto-world
: Italian sette 'seven' -- Sakha (Yakut) sette 'seven'.
sinor toys with the idea of connecting them with chuvash: s'-
but this is not accepted.
: Hebrew yam 'sea', Arabic yamm 'sea' -- Samoyed yam 'sea'.
ruhlen: nostartic & amerind.
D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff
>
>
>Yahya M wrote:
>
>> AMAZING COINCIDENCES
>> (This is all I have so far. Anybody know any others?)
>
>Off the top of my head:German nehmen 'take' -- Manchu neme-
>'take'English whole -- Greek holo-
>Modern Greek mati 'eye' -- same in some Polynesian language (Ross
>Clark?)
>Korean ttOng -- English dung
>Korean /mwOs/ [mwOt] English what
>Korean ne 'yes' -- Modern Greek ne 'yes'
>Korean ye 'yes' -- English yeah
Korean tu -- English two
Korean pori -- English barley
I've been meaning for a while to compile a list of Korean and English
sound-alikes. This is a start.
--
Daniel "Da" von Brighoff /\ Dilettanten
(de...@midway.uchicago.edu) /__\ erhebt Euch
/____\ gegen die Kunst!
H.M.Hubey
Yahya M wrote:
>
> AMAZING COINCIDENCES
>
> Arabic akh 'brother' -- Mongolian akh 'brother'.
> English bad -- Persian bad 'bad'.
> Elamite hih 'fire' -- Japanese hi 'fire'.
> Sumerian lu 'human' -- Burmese lu 'human'
> Urdu mahina 'month' -- Hawaiian mahina 'moon, month'.
> Mordvin pey 'head' -- Nahali pey 'head'.
> Italian sette 'seven' -- Sakha (Yakut) sette 'seven'.
> Hebrew yam 'sea', Arabic yamm 'sea' -- Samoyed yam 'sea'.
> NEAR MISSES
>
> Russian gora 'mountain, hill' -- Konda goRo 'hill, mountain'.
> Finnish maa 'earth' -- Tamil maN 'earth'.
> Finnish pää 'head' -- Lakota pa 'head' -- Hawaiian po'o 'head'.
> Greek pneu- 'to breathe, blow' -- Klamath pniw- 'to blow'.
> Turkish qayiq 'small boat' -- Eskimo qayaq 'small boat'.
> Etruscan sekh 'daughter' -- Tlingit sik 'daughter'.
> English sun -- Manchu shun 'sun'.
> Irish tine 'fire' -- Lenape (Delaware) tindey 'fire'.
Turkic *tU (needle) ... Sumerian ti (arrow)
Turkic tin (life).. tiri (alive).... Sumerian ti (life)
> YIN/YANG REVERSALS
>
> Spanish (et al.) mama 'mother' -- Georgian mama 'father'.
> Arabic su' 'evil' -- Sanskrit su 'good'
> Basque su 'fire' -- Turkish su 'water'.
> Malay tak 'no' -- Polish tak 'yes'.
I posted this from Comucreadan etc (from manaster-ramer)
Turkish ay (moon), and kUn (sun) are reversed in these what
looks like North American Native languages of kan (moon), and ay (sun).
Turkish var (to go)... Dravidian avar (to come)
Turkic kara (black)...Drav.. kala (black)
Turkic (KBal) amma,appa (mom, dad) ... Drav.(??) amma, appa (mom,dad?)
Turkic (KBal) anna, atta (mom,dad)... HIttite annas, attas (mom, dad)
Turkic kul (slave)...Dravidian kul (slave)
Turkish dede (grandpa)... Russian dyadya (uncle ?)
Turkish/Arabic baba (father)... Russian baba (old woman, grandma?)
*tU can be found in Hungarian but tUle (to sew) can be found in KBAl and
also Chuvash (I think). tik (to sew) can be also found in Turkic
languages.
--
Sincerely,
M. Hubey
hub...@mail.montclair.edu
http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey
H.M.Hubey
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
>
> : > Turkish qayiq 'small boat' -- Eskimo qayaq 'small boat'.
>
> sinor has an article and finds an identity in the two words as well.
kay (to slide, to glide).
> : Miller argues that this is in fact a wanderword that also shows up in
> : Japanese kai 'rudder.'
>
> : Mikael Thompson
--
Chris Robato Yao
>AMAZING COINCIDENCES
>
>Arabic akh 'brother' -- Mongolian akh 'brother'.
>English bad -- Persian bad 'bad'.
>Elamite hih 'fire' -- Japanese hi 'fire'.
Japanese hi comes possibly from an old 'pi', possibly related to
Austronesian 'a-pi' or 'a-poy' for fire, with a p -> h shift.
By the way, Hawaiian 'fire' is a-hi.
In my Chinese dialect, fire is 'he', 'huo' in Mandarin.
>Sumerian lu 'human' -- Burmese lu 'human'
>Urdu mahina 'month' -- Hawaiian mahina 'moon, month'.
>Mordvin pey 'head' -- Nahali pey 'head'.
>Italian sette 'seven' -- Sakha (Yakut) sette 'seven'.
>Hebrew yam 'sea', Arabic yamm 'sea' -- Samoyed yam 'sea'.
>
>
>NEAR MISSES
>
>Russian gora 'mountain, hill' -- Konda goRo 'hill, mountain'.
>Finnish maa 'earth' -- Tamil maN 'earth'.
>Finnish pää 'head' -- Lakota pa 'head' -- Hawaiian po'o 'head'.
>Greek pneu- 'to breathe, blow' -- Klamath pniw- 'to blow'.
>Turkish qayiq 'small boat' -- Eskimo qayaq 'small boat'.
>Etruscan sekh 'daughter' -- Tlingit sik 'daughter'.
>English sun -- Manchu shun 'sun'.
>Irish tine 'fire' -- Lenape (Delaware) tindey 'fire'.
>
>
>YIN/YANG REVERSALS
>
>Spanish (et al.) mama 'mother' -- Georgian mama 'father'.
>Arabic su' 'evil' -- Sanskrit su 'good'
>Basque su 'fire' -- Turkish su 'water'.
>Malay tak 'no' -- Polish tak 'yes'.
Considering that p -> h shift from old Japanese to new, the current
Japanese 'haha' for mother should sound like 'papa' in old Japanese.
There is also the Chinese 'ehr' for the English 'ear'.
>
>(This is all I have so far. Anybody know any others?)
(And the NUMBER ONE top oxy-MORON
1. Microsoft Works
---From the Top 50 Oxymorons (thanks to Richard Kennedy)
Chris Robato Yao
>Off the top of my head:German nehmen 'take' -- Manchu neme-
>'take'English whole -- Greek holo-
>Modern Greek mati 'eye' -- same in some Polynesian language (Ross
>Clark?)
'mata' in Tagalog, and probably for proto-Austronesian.
Rgds,
Chris
Peter T. Daniels
>
> In article <19990806173558...@ng-ck1.aol.com>,
> yah...@aol.com (Yahya M) wrote:
>
> > NEAR MISSES
>
> Tagalog's "susu" meaning "breast"
> and Indonesian's "susu" meaning "milk"
>
> Tagalog's "ito" meaning "this"
> Indonesian's "itu" meaning "that"
The two above would certainly be considered by any comparativist (is
there reason to believe they don't share an etymon?).
> Japanese's "sou desu ka?"
> English's "is that so?"
How is this a "near miss"?
> Tagalog's "palaka" meaning "frog"
> Hawaiian's "poloka" meaning the same thing. Even though they're both
> Malay-Polynesian languages, my dictionary says "poloka" comes from
> English.
English what?
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@worldnet.att.net
Peter T. Daniels
>
> Yahya M wrote:
> >
> > AMAZING COINCIDENCES
> >
> > Arabic akh 'brother' -- Mongolian akh 'brother'.
> > English bad -- Persian bad 'bad'.
> > Elamite hih 'fire' -- Japanese hi 'fire'.
> > Urdu mahina 'month' -- Hawaiian mahina 'moon, month'.
> > Mordvin pey 'head' -- Nahali pey 'head'.
> > Italian sette 'seven' -- Sakha (Yakut) sette 'seven'.
> > Hebrew yam 'sea', Arabic yamm 'sea' -- Samoyed yam 'sea'.
>
> > NEAR MISSES
> >
> > Russian gora 'mountain, hill' -- Konda goRo 'hill, mountain'.
> > Finnish maa 'earth' -- Tamil maN 'earth'.
> > Finnish pää 'head' -- Lakota pa 'head' -- Hawaiian po'o 'head'.
> > Greek pneu- 'to breathe, blow' -- Klamath pniw- 'to blow'.
> > Turkish qayiq 'small boat' -- Eskimo qayaq 'small boat'.
> > Etruscan sekh 'daughter' -- Tlingit sik 'daughter'.
> > English sun -- Manchu shun 'sun'.
> > Irish tine 'fire' -- Lenape (Delaware) tindey 'fire'.
>
> Turkic tin (life).. tiri (alive).... Sumerian ti (life)
Finally he admits these are amazing coincidences!
mith...@indiana.edu
D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff wrote:
> In article <37AB8860...@indiana.edu>, <mith...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> >Korean /manhi/ [mani] -- English many
> >Korean ttOng -- English dung
> >Korean /mwOs/ [mwOt] English what
> >Korean ne 'yes' -- Modern Greek ne 'yes'
> >Korean ye 'yes' -- English yeah
> [snip]
>
> Korean tu -- English two
> Korean pori -- English barley
>
> I've been meaning for a while to compile a list of Korean and English
> sound-alikes. This is a start.
Don't forget myoch 'much'. MAT
Nikos Sarantakos
>Modern Greek mati 'eye' -- same in some Polynesian language (Ross
>Clark?)
As far as I know from some wildly unreliable sources, Mati is used
indeed in Easter Islands, where the well-known statues are allegedly
known as Mati Kite Rani = Eyes that Stare at the Sky.
Now, Mati is eye in modern Greek, Kitazw = look at, stare,
Ouranos = Sky.
But, as you know well :-) Polynesian languages have Greek as
a common ancestor. This is proven beyond any doubt in the seminal
work "Hellenicum Pacificum" by a certain Nors Josephson, a book
much quoted by Greek cranks -er, researchers who want to prove
that all languages stem from Greek.
However, the most amazing coincidence is the name Malakas.
An Altavista search shows that Si Malakas was the legendary
ancestor of Philippines. If you have Greek friends, you certainly
know that the most common Greek swearword is also Malakas!
ns
D. Edward Gund v. Brighoff
Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Chris S. wrote:
>
>> Tagalog's "palaka" meaning "frog"
>> Hawaiian's "poloka" meaning the same thing. Even though they're both
>> Malay-Polynesian languages, my dictionary says "poloka" comes from
>> English.
>
>English what?
'frog'. Isn't that obvious?
H.M.Hubey
YOu got it wrong again. Your score so far is negative.
The difference between-amazing coincidence and not-amazing-coincidence
is ???????????????
have you gotten this yet?
> --
> Peter T. Daniels gram...@worldnet.att.net
--
Cluster User
an amazing coincidence (for pastoralists) or a near miss is
ma:l (arabic) and mal (mongol) "domestic animal".
both are used in anatolian turkish.
Chris S.
> > Tagalog's "palaka" meaning "frog"
> > Hawaiian's "poloka" meaning the same thing. Even though they're
both
> > Malay-Polynesian languages, my dictionary says "poloka" comes from
> > English.
>
> English what?
Here's the dictionary entry from new Pocket Hawaiian Dictionary by Mary
Kawena Pukui:
poloka. Frog, toad. Eng.
So I assume it's from Frog, since Hawaiian doesn't have f r and g.
Mike Wright
>
[...]
> YIN/YANG REVERSALS
[...]
> Malay tak 'no' -- Polish tak 'yes'.
The final "k" in Malay represents the glottal stop, [?], not an actual [k].
--
Mike Wright
http://www.mbay.net/~darwin/language.html
_____________________________________________________
"China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese."
-- Charles de Gaulle
Cluster User
>AMAZING COINCIDENCES
>
japanese yabanjin "foreigner, barbarian
turkish yabancI (yaban*dj*I) foreigner.
yaban (the wild) comes from middlle persian viya:ba:n,
new persian bi:ya:ba;n "desert" "litt. place
without water"
Cluster User
<hub...@mail.montclair.edu> wrote:
>
>
>Yahya M wrote:
>>
>> AMAZING COINCIDENCES
>>
>> YIN/YANG REVERSALS
>>
>> Spanish (et al.) mama 'mother' -- Georgian mama 'father'.
>> Arabic su' 'evil' -- Sanskrit su 'good'
>> Basque su 'fire' -- Turkish su 'water'.
>> Malay tak 'no' -- Polish tak 'yes'.
>
>I posted this from Comucreadan etc (from manaster-ramer)
>
>Turkish ay (moon), and kUn (sun) are reversed in these what
>looks like North American Native languages of kan (moon), and ay (sun).
>
>
>Turkish var (to go)... Dravidian avar (to come)
>Turkic kara (black)...Drav.. kala (black)
dravidian, altaic and uralic are grouped by soem (menges) as
"east-nostrartic.
>Turkic (KBal) amma,appa (mom, dad) ... Drav.(??) amma, appa (mom,dad?)
>Turkic (KBal) anna, atta (mom,dad)... HIttite annas, attas (mom, dad)
linguistic universal, nostratic or proto-world.
>Turkic kul (slave)...Dravidian kul (slave)
see above.
>Turkish dede (grandpa)... Russian dyadya (uncle ?)
hard to judge.
>Turkish/Arabic baba (father)... Russian baba (old woman, grandma?)
baba means grandfather in azeri. note turkic apa (ancestor). ba: in
construcxts is a rare dialect form in arabic (found in the turkish
name ba:yazi:d (bayezid). otherwise one may consider aramaic (which
had a vogue in pre-islamic iran) 'abba: and persian padar (notice
english pa). the bulg. etym. dictionary gives up on this word. it was
most popular in turkicized iran.
>
>*tU can be found in Hungarian but tUle (to sew) can be found in KBAl and
>also Chuvash (I think). tik (to sew) can be also found in Turkic
>languages.
>
Cluster User
wrote:
>On 06 Aug 1999 21:35:58 GMT, yah...@aol.com (Yahya M) wrote:
>
>>AMAZING COINCIDENCES
>>
>
>
>japanese yabanjin "foreigner, barbarian
>
>turkish yabancI (yaban*dj*I) foreigner.
see eren "yaban"
>
>yaban (the wild) comes from middlle persian viya:ba:n,
or viya:pan
Cluster User
<gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Chris S. wrote:
>>
>> In article <19990806173558...@ng-ck1.aol.com>,
>> yah...@aol.com (Yahya M) wrote:
>>
>> > NEAR MISSES
>>
>> Tagalog's "susu" meaning "breast"
>> and Indonesian's "susu" meaning "milk"
>>
>> Tagalog's "ito" meaning "this"
>> Indonesian's "itu" meaning "that"
>
>The two above would certainly be considered by any comparativist (is
>there reason to believe they don't share an etymon?).
certainly. considering the fact that teh two are consdered to be
rather closely related.
>
>> Japanese's "sou desu ka?"
>> English's "is that so?"
>
>How is this a "near miss"?
>
>> Tagalog's "palaka" meaning "frog"
>> Hawaiian's "poloka" meaning the same thing. Even though they're both
>> Malay-Polynesian languages, my dictionary says "poloka" comes from
>> English.
>
>English what?
Chris S.
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
didn't have time to answer these earlier..
>> Tagalog's "susu" meaning "breast"
>> and Indonesian's "susu" meaning "milk"
>>
>> Tagalog's "ito" meaning "this"
>> Indonesian's "itu" meaning "that"
>
>The two above would certainly be considered by any comparativist (is
>there reason to believe they don't share an etymon?).
They probably do, but i put them there cuz the meanings aren't exactly
the same.
> > Japanese's "sou desu ka?"
> > English's "is that so?"
>
> How is this a "near miss"?
Wasn't really sure btw what category it would go in, but
the sou/so's should be very similar in meaning....
Chris S.
cluste...@yale.edu (Cluster User) wrote:
> >Turkic (KBal) amma,appa (mom, dad) ... Drav.(??) amma, appa
(mom,dad?)
> >Turkic (KBal) anna, atta (mom,dad)... HIttite annas, attas (mom, dad)
Tagalog:
Ama (or tatay) = dad
Ina (or nanay) = mom
Mike Wright
>
> On 06 Aug 1999 21:35:58 GMT, yah...@aol.com (Yahya M) wrote:
>
> >AMAZING COINCIDENCES
> >
>
> japanese yabanjin "foreigner, barbarian
>
> turkish yabancI (yaban*dj*I) foreigner.
>
> without water"
The "Japanese" is actually Sino-Japanese. It combines:
"ya" (Mand. <ye3>) "wild"
"ban" (Mand. <man2>) "barbarous", "savage"
"jin" (Mand. <ren2>) "person"
H.M.Hubey
Cluster User wrote:
>
> dravidian, altaic and uralic are grouped by soem (menges) as
> "east-nostrartic.
>
> >Turkic (KBal) amma,appa (mom, dad) ... Drav.(??) amma, appa (mom,dad?)
> >Turkic (KBal) anna, atta (mom,dad)... HIttite annas, attas (mom, dad)
>
> linguistic universal, nostratic or proto-world.
It must the null rule of linguistics. What kind of a rule is it that
claims that one of the best candidates for nostratic is taken out of
the running. Not accidentally it also conveniently relieves linguists
of having to explain why Hittite attas and annas are not good old
IE form of such words do not get borrowed. Very convenient indeed.
did I already post about English /th/ being infant talk. Usually
children have problems with lithping. Then there is the Balkar
term /tilkau/ (speech defect) applied to those who cannot
produce the q but produce k instead. Yep, there is another
infant talk again.
H.M.Hubey
"Chris S." wrote:
>
> In article <37ac8f8b....@news.yale.edu>,
> cluste...@yale.edu (Cluster User) wrote:
>
> > >Turkic (KBal) amma,appa (mom, dad) ... Drav.(??) amma, appa
> (mom,dad?)
> > >Turkic (KBal) anna, atta (mom,dad)... HIttite annas, attas (mom, dad)
>
> Tagalog:
>
> Ama (or tatay) = dad
> Ina (or nanay) = mom
>
> --Chris
Connect this with other words in Manansala's page on Sumerian and
it seems like it needs a more thorough research.
H.M.Hubey
Cluster User wrote:
>
> On 06 Aug 1999 21:35:58 GMT, yah...@aol.com (Yahya M) wrote:
>
> an amazing coincidence (for pastoralists) or a near miss is
> ma:l (arabic) and mal (mongol) "domestic animal".
>
> both are used in anatolian turkish.
*mal is protoAltaic for horse, and claimed by IEanists to come
from, you guessed it, IE word cognate with English mare. But
the reasoning seems to be;
1. IEans domesticated the horse.
2. Nobody can name an animal they did not domesticate.
3. You can keep changing names of animals as often as you wish.
4. Others have to wait until you tell them it's OK to use the name
that you gave when you domesticated it.
MKGF
Yahya M wrote:
> NEAR MISSES
>
> Russian gora 'mountain, hill' -- Konda goRo 'hill, mountain'.
> Finnish maa 'earth' -- Tamil maN 'earth'.
> Finnish pää 'head' -- Lakota pa 'head' -- Hawaiian po'o 'head'.
> Greek pneu- 'to breathe, blow' -- Klamath pniw- 'to blow'.
> Turkish qayiq 'small boat' -- Eskimo qayaq 'small boat'.
> Etruscan sekh 'daughter' -- Tlingit sik 'daughter'.
> English sun -- Manchu shun 'sun'.
> Irish tine 'fire' -- Lenape (Delaware) tindey 'fire'.
> (This is all I have so far. Anybody know any others?)
Another near miss:Greek theos 'god' -- Náhuatl teo 'god'
G. Fehér
Padraic Brown
could guess not good!), but you may be interested in finding a copy of
Arnold Wadler's "The Origin of Language". It's chock full of pairs (and
larger groups) like what you're playing with below. For example, related
to the maori word KUR-a, chieftain are CUR-aca, chieftain (Peru Quechua
maybe), KYR-ios, lord (Greek), GUR-ush, lord (Sumerian), GUR-u, teacher
(Sanskrit), UR, lord (Hungarian). Or NYOC-a, I (Peru); NOC-u, my (Maori);
UNEH, I (Albanian); ANOC, I (Coptic); ANAK-u, I (Assyrian); INCH-e, I
(Chilean); NECH, me (Mexican); NEK, I (Lybian); ANH, me (Khmer); WANG-a, I
(Chuckchee).
I haven't gotten to the chapters on Atlantic and Pacific language bridges;
how Atlantis fits in; etc. It's a curiously fascinating read, for what
ever it's worth.
Padraic Brown.
Yahya M (yah...@aol.com) wrote:
: AMAZING COINCIDENCES
: Arabic akh 'brother' -- Mongolian akh 'brother'.
: English bad -- Persian bad 'bad'.
: Elamite hih 'fire' -- Japanese hi 'fire'.
: Sumerian lu 'human' -- Burmese lu 'human'
: Urdu mahina 'month' -- Hawaiian mahina 'moon, month'.
: Mordvin pey 'head' -- Nahali pey 'head'.
: Italian sette 'seven' -- Sakha (Yakut) sette 'seven'.
: Hebrew yam 'sea', Arabic yamm 'sea' -- Samoyed yam 'sea'.
: NEAR MISSES
: Russian gora 'mountain, hill' -- Konda goRo 'hill, mountain'.
: Finnish maa 'earth' -- Tamil maN 'earth'.
: Finnish pää 'head' -- Lakota pa 'head' -- Hawaiian po'o 'head'.
: Greek pneu- 'to breathe, blow' -- Klamath pniw- 'to blow'.
: Turkish qayiq 'small boat' -- Eskimo qayaq 'small boat'.
: Etruscan sekh 'daughter' -- Tlingit sik 'daughter'.
: English sun -- Manchu shun 'sun'.
: Irish tine 'fire' -- Lenape (Delaware) tindey 'fire'.
: YIN/YANG REVERSALS
: Spanish (et al.) mama 'mother' -- Georgian mama 'father'.
: Arabic su' 'evil' -- Sanskrit su 'good'
: Basque su 'fire' -- Turkish su 'water'.
: Malay tak 'no' -- Polish tak 'yes'.
Mike Wright
>
> In article <37ac8f8b....@news.yale.edu>,
> cluste...@yale.edu (Cluster User) wrote:
>
> > >Turkic (KBal) amma,appa (mom, dad) ... Drav.(??) amma, appa
> (mom,dad?)
> > >Turkic (KBal) anna, atta (mom,dad)... HIttite annas, attas (mom, dad)
>
> Tagalog:
>
> Ama (or tatay) = dad
> Ina (or nanay) = mom
Let's see. We've been through the Chinese and Japanese matches before, but what
the heck. (I'll omit Chinese tones.)
Holo:
tiatia = daddy
ama = grandma
apa = pa
mama = mama
papa = papa
Mandarin
diedie = daddy
baba = papa
mama = mama
ma = ma
nainai = nana (paternal grandmother)
Japanese
haha (Old Japanese papa) = mama
chichi (Old Japanese titi) = daddy
chichi = titty
Here are some Indonesian and Malay terms pulled out of dictionaries:
Indonesian
mami = mommy
ma' = ma - "'" is glottal stop
emak = ma - this "e" is shwa, I think, and final "k" is glottal stop
bapa = papa
pak = pa
abah = pa
nenek = nana (grandparent)
tetek = titty
Malay
mama = mama
Here's something funny:
Malay elder sister = [kaka?]
Mandarin elder brother = [k@k@]
Malay younger brother or sister = [adi?]
Holo younger brother = [ati]
Some Vietnamese terms seem to match, too, but I'm not sure what's native
Vietnamese and what's Sino-Vietnamese.
--
Mike Wright
http://www.mbay.net/~darwin/
johan_va...@my-deja.com
yah...@aol.com (Yahya M) wrote:
> AMAZING COINCIDENCES
>
> Arabic akh 'brother' -- Mongolian akh 'brother'.
> English bad -- Persian bad 'bad'.
> Elamite hih 'fire' -- Japanese hi 'fire'.
> Sumerian lu 'human' -- Burmese lu 'human'
> Urdu mahina 'month' -- Hawaiian mahina 'moon, month'.
> Mordvin pey 'head' -- Nahali pey 'head'.
> Italian sette 'seven' -- Sakha (Yakut) sette 'seven'.
> Hebrew yam 'sea', Arabic yamm 'sea' -- Samoyed yam 'sea'.
>
> NEAR MISSES
>
> Russian gora 'mountain, hill' -- Konda goRo 'hill, mountain'.
> Finnish maa 'earth' -- Tamil maN 'earth'.
> Finnish pää 'head' -- Lakota pa 'head' -- Hawaiian po'o 'head'.
> Greek pneu- 'to breathe, blow' -- Klamath pniw- 'to blow'.
> Turkish qayiq 'small boat' -- Eskimo qayaq 'small boat'.
> Etruscan sekh 'daughter' -- Tlingit sik 'daughter'.
> English sun -- Manchu shun 'sun'.
> Irish tine 'fire' -- Lenape (Delaware) tindey 'fire'.
>
> YIN/YANG REVERSALS
>
> Spanish (et al.) mama 'mother' -- Georgian mama 'father'.
> Arabic su' 'evil' -- Sanskrit su 'good'
> Basque su 'fire' -- Turkish su 'water'.
> Malay tak 'no' -- Polish tak 'yes'.
Turkish beter 'worse' -- Dutch beter 'better'
(Turkish beter <Persian bad-tar, comp. of bad)
Turkish kaldIrmak 'lift, take away' -- Uzbek qoldirmoq 'leave (behind)'
Greek ne 'yes' -- Dutch nee 'no'
Turkic yoq 'no' -- West-Flemish Dutch dialect joa-k 'yes'
Albanian drekė 'dinner' -- Dutch drek 'dung'
Albanian zot 'sir' -- Dutch zot 'fool'
Hindi/Urdu aap 'you (polite)' - Dutch aap 'monkey'
Georgian mama 'father' -- Dutch mama 'mother'
Johan Vandewalle
> (This is all I have so far. Anybody know any others?)
>
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
<hub...@mail.montclair.edu> wrote:
>*mal is protoAltaic for horse, and claimed by IEanists to come
>from, you guessed it, IE word cognate with English mare.
*marko (Celtic and Germanic). But I've never seen it claimed
that the Altaic comes from Celtic-Germanic. Who does so?
==
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal ~ ~
Amsterdam _____________ ~ ~
m...@wxs.nl |_____________|||
========================== Ce .sig n'est pas une .cig
H.M.Hubey
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal wrote:
>
> On Sat, 07 Aug 1999 23:48:53 -0400, "H.M.Hubey"
> <hub...@mail.montclair.edu> wrote:
>
> >*mal is protoAltaic for horse, and claimed by IEanists to come
> >from, you guessed it, IE word cognate with English mare.
>
> *marko (Celtic and Germanic). But I've never seen it claimed
> that the Altaic comes from Celtic-Germanic. Who does so?
I think it was in a posting, not in a book.
H.M.Hubey
johan_va...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>
> Turkish beter 'worse' -- Dutch beter 'better'
> (Turkish beter <Persian bad-tar, comp. of bad)
> Turkish kaldIrmak 'lift, take away' -- Uzbek qoldirmoq 'leave (behind)'
kal means 'to stay' in Turkish too. So kaldir (causative) is from
another root meaning apparently "high, upwards" so that kaldir means
"cause to go high".
Colin Fine
writes
[...]
>>
>> YIN/YANG REVERSALS
>>
[...]
>
>Turkish kaldIrmak 'lift, take away' -- Uzbek qoldirmoq 'leave (behind)'
>
English 'cleave' (stick) - English 'cleave' (split)
English 'clip' (fasten) - English 'clip' (cut)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Colin Fine 66 High Ash, Shipley, W Yorks. BD18 1NE, UK |
| Tel: 01274 592696/0976 635354 e-mail: co...@kindness.demon.co.uk |
| "Don't just do something! Stand there!" |
| - from 'Behold the Spirit' (workshop) |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
H.M.Hubey
Sumerian ti (life), German(ic?) tier (animal), Turkic tiri (alive).
Sumerian ti (arrow), TUrkic tU (needle), Turkic tik (to sew), Turkic
tUle (to sew)
Turkic tuy (to fasten together, semantic shift from 'to sew'), English
tie (to fasten together)
Sumerian te (to say, speak), Turkic de (to say, speak), English tell (to
say, speak)
Turkic sOz (word), sOyle (to say), English say (to say), German sagen
(to say)
Anyone interested in knowing why arrow and life are connected together?
:-)
H.M.Hubey
"H.M.Hubey" wrote:
>
> Sumerian ti (life), German(ic?) tier (animal), Turkic tiri (alive).
Turkic tin (life), tInC/dinC(healthy), tunchuk (to choke, lose
the breath of life)
> Sumerian ti (arrow), TUrkic tU (needle), Turkic tik (to sew), Turkic
> tUle (to sew)
1. long pointed objects:
til (tongue), tish (tooth)---compare to Engolish tongue, tooth/teeth;
tayak (bat, club), terek (tree), direk (pole), tUy/dOv (to beat up, hit
with a club?), dOgme (tattoo), Turkic toku (to beat up, hit),
Turkic tokmak (< tokumak, sledge hammer)...
2. from sewing, fastening together:
tUyUmCek (knot), dUGUm (knot), dUGUn (wedding, wed knot?), dUgme/tUyme
(button)
tiyek (buttons on accordian etc),....
The same again but with the shift t > s. All of these can also be found
in
Turkic languages
1. long pointed objects
old Turkic, sU (to make war, fight)
the doublet/ikileme dawur sUyUr (fighting). I already posted about
tawush.tovish,
dabish etc.
Turkish sUngU (bayonet), Tatar sOng (spear), sUle(to make war, fight)
KBal suk (to insert into, thrust into), Turkish sok (to insert into, to
thrust into),
Turkic sik (penis, to have intercourse), KBAl sok (to thrust, to beat
up, compare to toku),
Turkish/Turkic sOk (to destroy, to tear apart),
Turkish chUk (slang for penis), Turkish chak (to hammer), Turkish
chekich (hammer),
KBAl chOgUch (hammer), chOg (nail), Turkish chivi (nail), Kazak sheg
(nail),...
Dozens more can probably be found. Check Sumerian and Lahovary's book on
words like Sumerian sig, Etruscan sec, and Halloran's pages for what
sikil means.
What journal would be appropriate for dozens of these words connected
and
organized together with regular sound changes, and regular semantic
connections? Which journal has competent referees and a competent
editor?
> Anyone interested in knowing why arrow and life are connected together?
mith...@indiana.edu
H.M.Hubey wrote:
> "H.M.Hubey" wrote:
>
> > Sumerian ti (arrow), TUrkic tU (needle), Turkic tik (to sew), Turkic
> > tUle (to sew)
>
> 1. long pointed objects:
> til (tongue), tish (tooth)---compare to Engolish tongue, tooth/teeth;
English tongue is cognate with Latin lingua, Russian yaz-yk, etc. Tooth is
cognate with Latin dent-is, Greek odont-, etc.
> Turkish sUngU (bayonet), Tatar sOng (spear), sUle(to make war, fight)
> KBal suk (to insert into, thrust into), Turkish sok (to insert into, to
> thrust into),
> Turkic sik (penis, to have intercourse), KBAl sok (to thrust, to beat
> up, compare to toku),
> Turkish/Turkic sOk (to destroy, to tear apart),
> What journal would be appropriate for dozens of these words connected
> and
> organized together with regular sound changes, and regular semantic
> connections?
When you actually have some with regular sound correspondences and semantic
correspondences, maybe we'll inflict you on someone. Until then, go back to
the drawing board. Your constant reliance on modern English is enough to show
you're an idiotic amateur with a chip on his shoulder, besides suggesting your
Sumerian corrspondences are equally second-hand and amateurish. You don't
know what you're doing. Continue making laughing stock of yourself if you
want, but don't be surprised if linguists continue telling you how much of a
fool you are.
> Which journal has competent referees and a competent
> editor?
None that would accept this work.
Mikael Thompson
mith...@indiana.edu
H.M.Hubey wrote:
> Sumerian ti (life), German(ic?) tier (animal), Turkic tiri (alive).
Germanic begins with d-, as in Engish deer. Tier is a later development in
German proper. The word goes back to PIE *dh (Greek the:r, Latin fer-al).
It tells us a lot about your competence, credulity, and general methodology
that you constantly cite Germanic forms that a moment's checking would tell
you go back to different consonants.
> Sumerian ti (arrow), TUrkic tU (needle), Turkic tik (to sew), Turkic
> tUle (to sew)
Wonderful. You're throwing together to Turkic words which are obviously
related by a verbalizing suffix, which reduces your set from four to three.
> Turkic tuy (to fasten together, semantic shift from 'to sew'), English
> tie (to fasten together)
Again, you really need to think before tossing together modern Germanic
forms with other languages. English tie is related to tug, tow, German
zug-, etc., and more distantly to Latin duc-. The original meaning was
something like "to pull, tug, lead."
> Sumerian te (to say, speak), Turkic de (to say, speak), English tell (to
> say, speak)
Original meaning of the English is "to count."
> Turkic sOz (word), sOyle (to say), English say (to say), German sagen
> (to say)
Germanic forms going back to PIE *sakw, I think.
More generally, notice that by using modern English forms, you virtually
ensure that the forms are closer in the present than in the past. That
pretty much ensures they are random resemblances. As a result, your
Germanic correspondences are spurious. This means your pile of stones
reduces to three pair involving Turkic and Sumerian. Unimpressive.
> Anyone interested in knowing why arrow and life are connected together?
If I wanted creative mythology, I'd go see _The Blair Witch Project_.
Mikael Thompson
Brian M. Scott
> In <7og8k4$9bu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Chris S. <van...@my-deja.com> writes:
> >Tagalog's "palaka" meaning "frog"
> >Hawaiian's "poloka" meaning the same thing. Even though they're both
> >Malay-Polynesian languages, my dictionary says "poloka" comes from
> >English.
> I can't imagine how poloka came from English.
I wouldn't have guessed it, but it makes sense. Hawai'ian wants CV
syllables, and the substitutions of /p/, /l/, and /k/ for /f/, /r/, and
/g/, none of which Hawai'ian has, all seem natural enough.
Brian M. Scott
Mike Wright
>
> In <37AD3E30...@mbay.net>, Mike Wright <dar...@mbay.net> writes:
[...]
> >Here's something funny:
> >
> >Malay elder sister = [kaka?]
> >Mandarin elder brother = [k@k@]
>
> the father.
Taiwanese don't seem to reduplicate terms for aunts and uncles like that. They
would say <toa7-ko'1> (<toa7> being "big") for the eldest.
> 'Jiko' is also aunt, but specifically, the second sister of the father.
> 'Jiku" would be the second brother of the father, "sanku' would be the
> third brother of the father.
You mean "mother", not "father", don't you? In Taiwanese Holo (and for every
dialect I can find info on, including Xiamen, Zhangzhou, Quanzhou, and
Singapore), <ku7> is used for the mother's brothers. Father's older brothers are
<peh4> and younger brothers are <chek4>. All can have <a2> prefixed, or else
<toa7> for the eldest and numbers for the rest.
> Notice that for this word, the 'n' is
> actually retained (sa~ku would have meant something totally different).
> Tones omitted.
Again, different from Holo, where mother's third brother is <sa~1-ku7>. What
does <sa~1-ku7> mean for you?
BTW, there is no final 'n' in Holo/Hokkien three. It's <sa~1> in colloquial and
<sam1> in Tang Min. So, how could it be "retained"? Is it a Mandarin influence?
> >Malay younger brother or sister = [adi?]
> >Holo younger brother = [ati]
>
> Actually, elder sister in Hokkien would be atsi, older brother would be
> ahia, younger sister would be shoube, and younger brother would be
> shouti.
Do you not nasalize <hia~1>?
> An alternative to ahia~ would be tiya for brother, but I'm not sure if
> it's just a nickname my wife calls her brother.
Could it be <ti7-a2>? Douglas mentions an <a2> used as a diminutive suffix. I've
never heard it used, but my wife says that it is used occasionally on Taiwan.
--
Mike Wright
http://www.mbay.net/~darwin/language.html
Mike Wright
>
> In <37ac8b95....@news.yale.edu>, cluste...@yale.edu (Cluster User) writes:
> >On 06 Aug 1999 21:35:58 GMT, yah...@aol.com (Yahya M) wrote:
> >
> >>AMAZING COINCIDENCES
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >turkish yabancI (yaban*dj*I) foreigner.
> >
> >yaban (the wild) comes from middlle persian viya:ba:n,
> >new persian bi:ya:ba;n "desert" "litt. place
> >without water"
> >
>
>
> name = English, nema = Uighyur and namae = Japanese.
Indonesian/Malay has "nama", meaning "name; reputation; fame", but it's probably
from Sanskrit.
> Japanese namae came from the root word, na, however, and mae was a much
> later addition. (Quite similar instead to the Austronesian root word,
> nga.) So no relation to Uighyur nema despite being another altaic
> language.
Mike Wright
[...]
> Then their husbands have this -teu~ (I am not transcribing this
> properly) like ji-ii-teu~.
[...]
It's <tiu~7>, the same character as the <tiong7> in <tiong7hu1> ("husband",
Mandarin <zhang4fu1>). (Of course, the common word for husband is <ang1>.)
Chris Robato Yao
>
>Tagalog's "susu" meaning "breast"
>and Indonesian's "susu" meaning "milk"
>
>Tagalog's "ito" meaning "this"
>Indonesian's "itu" meaning "that"
It's quite likely these are related since they both belong to the same
language family.
>
>Japanese's "sou desu ka?"
>English's "is that so?"
>
>Tagalog's "palaka" meaning "frog"
>Hawaiian's "poloka" meaning the same thing. Even though they're both
>Malay-Polynesian languages, my dictionary says "poloka" comes from
>English.
I can't imagine how poloka came from English.
Maybe the Tagalog "pak-pak" is a match more to the English "fuck".
Rgds,
Chris
>
>--Chris
>
>
>--
>....Mabuhay...
>Visit / Visitez http://www.game-master.com
>
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
(And the NUMBER ONE top oxy-MORON
1. Microsoft Works
---From the Top 50 Oxymorons (thanks to Richard Kennedy)
Chris Robato Yao
>On Fri, 06 Aug 1999 20:14:08 -0500, mith...@indiana.edu wrote:
>
>
>>Modern Greek mati 'eye' -- same in some Polynesian language (Ross
>>Clark?)
>
>As far as I know from some wildly unreliable sources, Mati is used
>indeed in Easter Islands, where the well-known statues are allegedly
>known as Mati Kite Rani = Eyes that Stare at the Sky.
>Now, Mati is eye in modern Greek, Kitazw = look at, stare,
>Ouranos = Sky.
Using Tagalog, which is close to Proto-Austronesian in some parts---
Mata is Eye
Kita is See
Langit is Sky
>
>But, as you know well :-) Polynesian languages have Greek as
>a common ancestor. This is proven beyond any doubt in the seminal
>work "Hellenicum Pacificum" by a certain Nors Josephson, a book
>much quoted by Greek cranks -er, researchers who want to prove
>that all languages stem from Greek.
>
>However, the most amazing coincidence is the name Malakas.
>An Altavista search shows that Si Malakas was the legendary
>ancestor of Philippines. If you have Greek friends, you certainly
>know that the most common Greek swearword is also Malakas!
>
>ns
>
>
Malakas means Strong in the Philippines. It's hardly a swear word---the
Filipino swear words are Spanish or Latin based, like 'puta' or bitch,
and tarantado.
Baka is a swear word in Japanese, but for Filipinos, the same word means
cow or something.
Mana has a similar concept with Filipinos and Eastern Island peoples,
possibly with Polynesians and Hawaiians as well. It means like a gift
inherited or blessing coming from heaven. Note the legend of manna
(food coming from heaven) in the Bible.
Rgds,
Chris
Chris Robato Yao
>On 06 Aug 1999 21:35:58 GMT, yah...@aol.com (Yahya M) wrote:
>
>>AMAZING COINCIDENCES
>>
>
>
>japanese yabanjin "foreigner, barbarian
>
>turkish yabancI (yaban*dj*I) foreigner.
>
>yaban (the wild) comes from middlle persian viya:ba:n,
>new persian bi:ya:ba;n "desert" "litt. place
>without water"
>
Here is an amazing coincidence, since it involves three languages
name = English, nema = Uighyur and namae = Japanese.
Japanese namae came from the root word, na, however, and mae was a much
later addition. (Quite similar instead to the Austronesian root word,
nga.) So no relation to Uighyur nema despite being another altaic
language.
Rgds,
Chris Robato Yao
>In article <37ac8f8b....@news.yale.edu>,
> cluste...@yale.edu (Cluster User) wrote:
>
>> >Turkic (KBal) amma,appa (mom, dad) ... Drav.(??) amma, appa
>(mom,dad?)
>> >Turkic (KBal) anna, atta (mom,dad)... HIttite annas, attas (mom, dad)
>
>Tagalog:
>
>Ama (or tatay) = dad
>Ina (or nanay) = mom
Tatay would be interesting against the Japanese chi-chi, which in old
Japanese would be ti-ti, which by the way means sexual organ in Tagalog.
And then, ti-ti in Chinese would mean "little brother".
Chris Robato Yao
>
>
>Miguel Carrasquer Vidal wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 07 Aug 1999 23:48:53 -0400, "H.M.Hubey"
>> <hub...@mail.montclair.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >*mal is protoAltaic for horse, and claimed by IEanists to come
>> >from, you guessed it, IE word cognate with English mare.
Interesting. I was just thinking of the English 'mare' with the Chinese
'ma' for horse.
>>
>> *marko (Celtic and Germanic). But I've never seen it claimed
>> that the Altaic comes from Celtic-Germanic. Who does so?
>
>I think it was in a posting, not in a book.
>
>
>--
>Sincerely,
>M. Hubey
>hub...@mail.montclair.edu
>http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey
Chris Robato Yao
>>
>> In article <37ac8f8b....@news.yale.edu>,
>> cluste...@yale.edu (Cluster User) wrote:
>>
>> > >Turkic (KBal) amma,appa (mom, dad) ... Drav.(??) amma, appa
>> (mom,dad?)
>> > >Turkic (KBal) anna, atta (mom,dad)... HIttite annas, attas (mom, dad)
>>
>> Tagalog:
>>
>> Ama (or tatay) = dad
>> Ina (or nanay) = mom
>
>
>Malay elder sister = [kaka?]
>Mandarin elder brother = [k@k@]
'Koko' would be aunt in Hokkien, but specifically, the elder sister of
the father.
'Jiko' is also aunt, but specifically, the second sister of the father.
'Jiku" would be the second brother of the father, "sanku' would be the
third brother of the father. Notice that for this word, the 'n' is
actually retained (sa~ku would have meant something totally different).
Tones omitted.
>
>Malay younger brother or sister = [adi?]
>Holo younger brother = [ati]
Actually, elder sister in Hokkien would be atsi, older brother would be
ahia, younger sister would be shoube, and younger brother would be
shouti.
An alternative to ahia~ would be tiya for brother, but I'm not sure if
it's just a nickname my wife calls her brother.
Rgds,
Chris
Yusuf B Gursey
: More nonsense.
: H.M.Hubey wrote:
: > Sumerian ti (life), German(ic?) tier (animal), Turkic tiri (alive).
oghuz has diri, old turkic tirig. oghuz d- is generally more archaic,
so one has *dirig. I'll have to check which PIE phoneme it corresponds to
in menges tur. lang. & peoples 2nd ed. based on russian nostratic work.
occasional secondary d- < t- do exist.
: Germanic begins with d-, as in Engish deer. Tier is a later development in
: German proper. The word goes back to PIE *dh (Greek the:r, Latin fer-al).
: It tells us a lot about your competence, credulity, and general methodology
: that you constantly cite Germanic forms that a moment's checking would tell
: you go back to different consonants.
: > Sumerian ti (arrow), TUrkic tU (needle), Turkic tik (to sew), Turkic
: > tUle (to sew)
oghuz dik=
as well throw in persian ti:r "arrow".
: Wonderful. You're throwing together to Turkic words which are obviously
: related by a verbalizing suffix, which reduces your set from four to three.
: > Turkic tuy (to fasten together, semantic shift from 'to sew'), English
: > tie (to fasten together)
oghuz dUg= old turkic tUg=
: Again, you really need to think before tossing together modern Germanic
Ben
Colin Fine <co...@kindness.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ppgCIbAw...@kindness.demon.co.uk...
> In article <7ojm3p$fb1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, johan_va...@my-deja.com
> writes
>
> [...]
> >>
> >> YIN/YANG REVERSALS
> >>
> [...]
>
> >
> >Turkish kaldIrmak 'lift, take away' -- Uzbek qoldirmoq 'leave (behind)'
> >
>
> English 'cleave' (stick) - English 'cleave' (split)
>
Yusuf B Gursey
: Chris Robato Yao wrote:
: >
: > >On 06 Aug 1999 21:35:58 GMT, yah...@aol.com (Yahya M) wrote:
: > >
: > >>AMAZING COINCIDENCES
: > >>
: > >
: > >
: > >japanese yabanjin "foreigner, barbarian
: > >
: > >turkish yabancI (yaban*dj*I) foreigner.
: > >
: > >yaban (the wild) comes from middlle persian viya:ba:n,
: > >new persian bi:ya:ba;n "desert" "litt. place
: > >without water"
: > >
: >
: > Here is an amazing coincidence, since it involves three languages
: >
: > name = English, nema = Uighyur and namae = Japanese.
I have namo < sans. for old uyghur.
turkish and other turkic langauges have persian na^m (name) as a rather
bookish word.
: Indonesian/Malay has "nama", meaning "name; reputation; fame", but it's
: probably
: from Sanskrit.
: > Japanese namae came from the root word, na, however, and mae was a much
: > later addition. (Quite similar instead to the Austronesian root word,
: > nga.) So no relation to Uighyur nema despite being another altaic
: > language.
: --
Chris Robato Yao
>Chris Robato Yao wrote:
>>
>> In <37ac8b95....@news.yale.edu>, cluste...@yale.edu (Cluster User) writes:
>> >On 06 Aug 1999 21:35:58 GMT, yah...@aol.com (Yahya M) wrote:
>> >
>> >>AMAZING COINCIDENCES
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >japanese yabanjin "foreigner, barbarian
>> >
>> >turkish yabancI (yaban*dj*I) foreigner.
>> >
>> >yaban (the wild) comes from middlle persian viya:ba:n,
>> >new persian bi:ya:ba;n "desert" "litt. place
>> >without water"
>> >
>>
>> Here is an amazing coincidence, since it involves three languages
>>
>> name = English, nema = Uighyur and namae = Japanese.
>
>from Sanskrit.
>
That makes it an incredible four language coincidence, but we can't rule
out loan word transmission at this point.
Chris Robato Yao
>[...]
>> >Here's something funny:
>> >
>> >Malay elder sister = [kaka?]
>> >Mandarin elder brother = [k@k@]
>>
>> 'Koko' would be aunt in Hokkien, but specifically, the elder sister of
>> the father.
>
>would say <toa7-ko'1> (<toa7> being "big") for the eldest.
>
>> 'Jiku" would be the second brother of the father, "sanku' would be the
>> third brother of the father.
>
>dialect I can find info on, including Xiamen, Zhangzhou, Quanzhou, and
>Singapore), <ku7> is used for the mother's brothers. Father's older brothers are
><peh4> and younger brothers are <chek4>. All can have <a2> prefixed, or else
><toa7> for the eldest and numbers for the rest.
You're correct---I mixed up my niece (from my sister) with my
daughter's speech.
My niece from my sister would call me a-ku and my brother ji-ku. My
daughter would call my sister, ko-ko, and my brother, a-chiak. if I
have an older brother, she would be calling him a-peh.
Toa-peh, toa-ko is what you use when you refer to your aunts and uncles
on a third person basis, like for example "gun toa-ko" or my eldest
aunt. If you are also outside of the family and refering to the
uncles and aunts, it's also toa-peh. But if you are calling them
directly, it's a-peh, a-ko, a-ku.
Then my mother's sisters are called toa-ii/a-ii, ji-ii, sa~-ii, si-ii,
go-ii, lak-ii, chit-ii, poe-ii, etc,. Yes, she does have a lot of
sisters.
Then their husbands have this -teu~ (I am not transcribing this
properly) like ji-ii-teu~.
>
>> Notice that for this word, the 'n' is
>> actually retained (sa~ku would have meant something totally different).
>> Tones omitted.
>
>Again, different from Holo, where mother's third brother is <sa~1-ku7>. What
>does <sa~1-ku7> mean for you?
We actually called my mother's third brother san-ku and the -n was quite
audible.
>
>BTW, there is no final 'n' in Holo/Hokkien three. It's <sa~1> in colloquial and
><sam1> in Tang Min. So, how could it be "retained"? Is it a Mandarin influence?
>
I am not really sure. I don't know why we called our third uncle san-ku
while we still call my third aunt, sa~-ii.
>> >Malay younger brother or sister = [adi?]
>> >Holo younger brother = [ati]
>>
>> Actually, elder sister in Hokkien would be atsi, older brother would be
>> ahia, younger sister would be shoube, and younger brother would be
>> shouti.
>
>Do you not nasalize <hia~1>?
Yes.
>
>> An alternative to ahia~ would be tiya for brother, but I'm not sure if
>> it's just a nickname my wife calls her brother.
>
>Could it be <ti7-a2>? Douglas mentions an <a2> used as a diminutive suffix. I've
>never heard it used, but my wife says that it is used occasionally on Taiwan.
>
Possibly.
>--
>Mike Wright
>http://www.mbay.net/~darwin/language.html
>_____________________________________________________
>"China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese."
>-- Charles de Gaulle
Yusuf B Gursey
: In <37AE4B5C...@mbay.net>, Mike Wright <dar...@mbay.net> writes:
: >>
: >> Here is an amazing coincidence, since it involves three languages
: >>
: >> name = English, nema = Uighyur and namae = Japanese.
: >
: >Indonesian/Malay has "nama", meaning "name; reputation; fame", but it's probably
: >from Sanskrit.
: >
: That makes it an incredible four language coincidence, but we can't rule
: out loan word transmission at this point.
it's a loan in uyghur, so the only coincidence is japanese.
: Rgds,
: Chris
: (And the NUMBER ONE top oxy-MORON
Murat Kalinyaprak
> yaban (the wild) comes from middlle persian viya:ba:n,
> new persian bi:ya:ba;n "desert" "litt. place
> without water"
Oh? I see you revised your speculation on this since
last year... Here is what you had once wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: #Yabanci #kelimeler (was Re: Guzel Turkce)
Date: 1998/03/25
Author: Cluster User
yabancI, yaban eski metinlerde bulunmuyor, onun yerine ba$ka,
bazen muhtelif tUrki lisanlarda hala kullanIlan, kelimeler var.
boyle etimoloji yaparken dikkat etmek lazIm. "-jin" cince
olabilir. cincesi ren (ren ile tUrkce "jen" arasI telaffuz
edilir), "insan", "adam" demektir. ekin japoncada yazIlI$I
cince ren karakteriyledir.
buna mukabil mogilcada -c,i ekine ilaveten -c,in eki de var
(cince tesiri?). -c,i proto altay devrinde cinceden mi??
japoncanIn altay lisanlarIyla munasebeti hakkIndaki eserler
yaban kelimesinden bahsetmiyor. (bir ihtimal yaban kelimesinin
cince gibi bir lisandan olup iki tarafa da gecmesidir)
ama ya^ba^n farcaya benziyor: ya^b "non-existant" "lost"
"perished" "useless" "futile" "frivolous' "fruitless",
"abortive", "unprofitable"
kayIp, harap, bo$una, semere, netice vermeyen
ya^bi^den, ya^ften: aramak
ya^ba^n: c,o"l, sahra, ta$ra
ya^b (bo$luk ifade eden)+a^n (cem' eki)=ya^ba^n makule benziyor.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Although the bullshit is now reduced to "bi:ya:ba;n=place
without water", this can still be a fun thread. How about
we start by inquiring what was the word(s) for "foreigner"
in Middlle Persian/New Persian...?
MK
Murat Kalinyaprak
Murat Kalinyaprak
Yusuf B Gursey
: Cluster User wrote in 37ac8b95....@news.yale.edu
: > yaban (the wild) comes from middlle persian viya:ba:n,
: > new persian bi:ya:ba;n "desert" "litt. place
: > without water"
: Oh? I see you revised your speculation on this since
: last year... Here is what you had once wrote:
:...
: Although the bullshit is now reduced to "bi:ya:ba;n=place
murat,
what the poster wrote is what eren and eyuboglu write.
: without water", this can still be a fun thread. How about
: we start by inquiring what was the word(s) for "foreigner"
: in Middlle Persian/New Persian...?
new persian is bi^ga^na.
: MK
H.M.Hubey
"Brian M. Scott" wrote:
>
> Chris Robato Yao wrote:
>
> > In <7og8k4$9bu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Chris S. <van...@my-deja.com> writes:
>
> > >Tagalog's "palaka" meaning "frog"
> > >Hawaiian's "poloka" meaning the same thing. Even though they're both
> > >Malay-Polynesian languages, my dictionary says "poloka" comes from
> > >English.
>
> > I can't imagine how poloka came from English.
>
> I wouldn't have guessed it, but it makes sense. Hawai'ian wants CV
> syllables, and the substitutions of /p/, /l/, and /k/ for /f/, /r/, and
> /g/, none of which Hawai'ian has, all seem natural enough.
Which is a nice example of a simple fact that many linguists forget;
that borrowings/copyings also go through regular sound changes
and therefore "systematic sound correspondences" can be found
between the borrower/copier and the donor.
so the constant yelping about "systematic sound correspondences"
is a no-brainer. It is a heuristic that says that the languages
in which they appear may be genetically related.
> Brian M. Scott
H.M.Hubey
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> Murat Kalinyaprak (mu...@compuplus.net) wrote:
> : Cluster User wrote in 37ac8b95....@news.yale.edu
>
> : Although the bullshit is now reduced to "bi:ya:ba;n=place
>
> murat,
>
> what the poster wrote is what eren and eyuboglu write.
>
> : without water", this can still be a fun thread. How about
> : we start by inquiring what was the word(s) for "foreigner"
> : in Middlle Persian/New Persian...?
Well, let's see. We have seen that Persian ab could be
from Turkic *sub, *cub, yibi, cibi etc. So now where can
yaban come from. There is really easy yaman (jaman, caman)
meaning "bad". Well wild animals are not well-behaved.
Patrick Chew
>Holo:
> tiatia = daddy
> papa = papa
> apa = pa
hrm.. don't forget <a-tia>, <lao-pe>, etc...
> mama = mama
hrm.. how about <a-niu~>, <lao-bu>, etc..?
> ama = grandma
which one?
>Mandarin
> diedie = daddy
> baba = papa
die, ba, etc..
> mama = mama
> ma = ma
niang, etc...
> nainai = nana (paternal grandmother)
laolao, (wai)po, etc..
Chris Robato Yao wrote:
> 'Jiko' is also aunt, but specifically, the second sister of the father.
> 'Jiku" would be the second brother of the father, "sanku' would be the
> third brother of the father. Notice that for this word, the 'n' is
> actually retained (sa~ku would have meant something totally different).
> Tones omitted.
interesting. the Hokkian/Holo that I'm familiar with has <ku> as
"mother's brother," with "father's brother"s being <a-pe?> (older) and
<a-tsiok> (younger). as for sisters: "father's sister" <a-ko>, "mother's
sister" <a-m>.
> Actually, elder sister in Hokkien would be atsi, older brother would be
> ahia, younger sister would be shoube, and younger brother would be
> shouti.
wow.. your <a-hia> doesn't show nasalization? cool.. another word from
your dialect that's undergone innovation. near all Minnan versions that
I've heard still retain <a-hia~>, with a reading of [hiON].
> An alternative to ahia~ would be tiya for brother, but I'm not sure if
> it's just a nickname my wife calls her brother.
definitely not something, I've heard, but, there're millions more lects
to be discovered, so, who knows. =)
cheers,
-Patrick
Patrick Chew
> Malay tak 'no' -- Polish tak 'yes'.
Mike Wright wrote:
> The final "k" in Malay represents the glottal stop, [?], not an actual [k].
not to mention that <tak> is a shortened form of <tidak>...
cheers,
-Patrick
Cluster User
<hub...@mail.montclair.edu> wrote:
>
>
>Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>>
>> Murat Kalinyaprak (mu...@compuplus.net) wrote:
>> : Cluster User wrote in 37ac8b95....@news.yale.edu
>>
>> : Although the bullshit is now reduced to "bi:ya:ba;n=place
>>
>> murat,
>>
>> what the poster wrote is what eren and eyuboglu write.
>>
>> : without water", this can still be a fun thread. How about
>> : we start by inquiring what was the word(s) for "foreigner"
>> : in Middlle Persian/New Persian...?
>
>Well, let's see. We have seen that Persian ab could be
that is your claim only.
>from Turkic *sub, *cub, yibi, cibi etc. So now where can
>yaban come from. There is really easy yaman (jaman, caman)
>meaning "bad". Well wild animals are not well-behaved.
>
yaban was pronounced with long vowels, indicating that turks
thought of iit as foreign.
Murat Kalinyaprak
> yaban (the wild) comes from middlle persian viya:ba:n,
> new persian bi:ya:ba;n "desert" "litt. place
> without water"
Oh? I see you revised your speculation on this since
last year... Here is what you had once wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: #Yabanci #kelimeler (was Re: Guzel Turkce)
Date: 1998/03/25
Author: Cluster User
yabancI, yaban eski metinlerde bulunmuyor, onun yerine ba$ka,
bazen muhtelif tUrki lisanlarda hala kullanIlan, kelimeler var.
boyle etimoloji yaparken dikkat etmek lazIm. "-jin" cince
olabilir. cincesi ren (ren ile tUrkce "jen" arasI telaffuz
edilir), "insan", "adam" demektir. ekin japoncada yazIlI$I
cince ren karakteriyledir.
buna mukabil mogilcada -c,i ekine ilaveten -c,in eki de var
(cince tesiri?). -c,i proto altay devrinde cinceden mi??
japoncanIn altay lisanlarIyla munasebeti hakkIndaki eserler
yaban kelimesinden bahsetmiyor. (bir ihtimal yaban kelimesinin
cince gibi bir lisandan olup iki tarafa da gecmesidir)
ama ya^ba^n farcaya benziyor: ya^b "non-existant" "lost"
"perished" "useless" "futile" "frivolous' "fruitless",
"abortive", "unprofitable"
kayIp, harap, bo$una, semere, netice vermeyen
ya^bi^den, ya^ften: aramak
ya^ba^n: c,o"l, sahra, ta$ra
ya^b (bo$luk ifade eden)+a^n (cem' eki)=ya^ba^n makule benziyor.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Although the bullshit is now reduced to "bi:ya:ba;n=place
without water", this can still be a fun thread. How about
we start by inquiring what was the word(s) for "foreigner"
in Middlle Persian/New Persian...?
MK
Murat Kalinyaprak
>>yaban (the wild) comes from middlle persian viya:ba:n,
>or viya:pan
What is this "or" supposed to mean...? You don't know
which one existed in Middle Persian for sure, or does
it mean that both forms coexisted...? Also, any ideas
why the Turks dropped the "vi-" and orrowed only the
"-yaban" part...?
MK
Gerald B Mathias
of putative Japanese relationships with other languages. My intended
point was that there are *lots* of coincidences. Come final exam time, it
turned out the point I *made* was that Japanese and English are related.
Oy veh! Auwe! Aigo!
Bart Mathias
A Few English-Japanese Correspondences
-ed/-t : -ta
amass : amasu
anchor : ikari
are : aru
be : wi- < *bi-
belly : hara < para
bogeyman : bakemono
bone : hone < p...
box : hako < p...
boy : booya
cold : koori
demo(cracy) : tami
dew : tuyu
door : to
ease : yas(u-/asi-) (see tea for (-)ea(-):(-)ya(-))
eros : iro
garb/garment : koromo
gate : kado
howl : hoeru
ire : ira (-datsu, -irasuru)
jabber : shaber-
kill : kir-
manner : mane
mare : uma
measure : hakaru < *bakaru (see treasure for -easur-:-akar-)
mole : mogura
more : moo
name : namae
occur : okor-
patch (garden): hatake < p...
puke : huk-/hak- < p...
scold : sikar-
sip : suu < supu
so 'tis : soo-desu
stick : tsuk-
tea : tya
trap : torae- < torap(e)-
treasure : takara
trip : tabi
up : uhe < upe
walk : aruk-
woman : oNna < womina
yam : imo
Mike Wright
>
> >Mike Wright <dar...@mbay.net> writes:
>
> >Holo:
> > tiatia = daddy
> > papa = papa
> > apa = pa
>
> hrm.. don't forget <a-tia>, <lao-pe>, etc...
>
> > mama = mama
>
> hrm.. how about <a-niu~>, <lao-bu>, etc..?
>
> > ama = grandma
>
> which one?
>
> >Mandarin
> > diedie = daddy
> > baba = papa
>
> die, ba, etc..
>
> > mama = mama
> > ma = ma
>
> niang, etc...
>
> > nainai = nana (paternal grandmother)
>
> laolao, (wai)po, etc..
I was mostly going for obvious "amazing coincidences". Listing all possible
Chinese terms for relative might over-burden the Net. :-)
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
Robato Yao) wrote:
>Interesting. I was just thinking of the English 'mare' with the Chinese
>'ma' for horse.
Gamkrelidze & Ivanov (not a posting, a book: "Indoevropejskij
jazyk i indoevropejcy"), compare Celtic *marko-, Germanic *marha-
with Altaic *mor- (Mong. morin, Manchu murin, Korean mal),
Sino-Tbetan *mrang (Chinese ma < *mra -> Jap. mma > uma, OBurm.
mrang, OTib. rmang) and Dravidian *ma: (Tamil [or so they
claim]). They don't claim it is of IE origin (the PIE is
*ek^wos), but classify it, I think, as a "Wanderwort". If
anything, of Altaic origin (my notes mention a (n Altaic?)
diminutive *mor-qa or *mor-kin).
On the subject of kecap and horses, what is the name of the
Thai(?) dish called "galloping horses" (oranges stuffed with
spicy meat), and why is it called "galloping horses"?
==
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal ~ ~
Amsterdam _____________ ~ ~
m...@wxs.nl |_____________|||
========================== Ce .sig n'est pas une .cig
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
Gursey) wrote:
>it's a loan in uyghur, so the only coincidence is japanese.
And of course Uralic *nima" (Finnish nimi, Samoyed nim, etc.).
Patrick Chew
> I can't imagine how poloka came from English.
"Brian M. Scott" wrote:
> I wouldn't have guessed it, but it makes sense. Hawai'ian wants CV
> syllables, and the substitutions of /p/, /l/, and /k/ for /f/, /r/, and
> /g/, none of which Hawai'ian has, all seem natural enough.
"H.M.Hubey" wrote:
> Which is a nice example of a simple fact that many linguists forget;
> that borrowings/copyings also go through regular sound changes
> and therefore "systematic sound correspondences" can be found
> between the borrower/copier and the donor.
>
> so the constant yelping about "systematic sound correspondences"
> is a no-brainer. It is a heuristic that says that the languages
> in which they appear may be genetically related.
There is, of course, nativization of loan-words such that they undergo
the same sound shifts that native-native words undergo. However, when
loans can be dated, it's no wonder that there're "systematic sound
correspondences" as you so deride. Just like "Meli Kelikimaka" is "Merry
Christmas," using what vowels and consonants Hawai`ian has.
As for the topic of nativization of loan-words and the subsequent sound
shifting, Korean is an excellent example of this:
"heaven, sky" MidChin *thi@n > MidKor *thy@n >ModKor <ch'eon>
"blue/green/black" MC *thi@ng> MK *thy@ng > ModK <ch'eong>
"together" (orthography) kath-i > [kach'i]
etc etc etc... however, we're not going to say that neither <ch'eon>
or <ch'eong> is a native Korean word...
cheers,
-Patrick
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
<hub...@mail.montclair.edu> wrote:
>Sumerian ti (life)
Actually til (ti-la "living" < til + -a).
>Sumerian te (to say, speak)
No such verb. Probably a misanalysis of -e-, suppletive form of
-dug4- "to say, to speak".
Yusuf B Gursey
: On Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:59:06 GMT, y...@world.std.com (Yusuf B
: Gursey) wrote:
: >it's a loan in uyghur, so the only coincidence is japanese.
: And of course Uralic *nima" (Finnish nimi, Samoyed nim, etc.).
that's probably a nostratic cognate. in uyghur it is a loanword, just
like persian na^m in later turkic languages.
: ==
Chris S.
cro...@kuentos.guam.net (Chris Robato Yao) wrote:
> Baka is a swear word in Japanese, but for Filipinos, the same word
> means cow or something.
Tagalog "baka" comes from Spanish "vaca."
Like karne comes from carne
--Chris
--Chris
--
...Mabuhay...
Visit / Visitez http://www.game-master.com
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Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Chris S.
> It's quite likely these are related since they both belong to the same
> language family.
>
True... but they're still near misses, di ba? :)
Yusuf B Gursey
: mith...@indiana.edu wrote:
: : More nonsense.
: : H.M.Hubey wrote:
: : > Sumerian ti (life), German(ic?) tier (animal), Turkic tiri (alive).
: oghuz has diri, old turkic tirig. oghuz d- is generally more archaic,
: so one has *dirig. I'll have to check which PIE phoneme it corresponds to
: in menges tur. lang. & peoples 2nd ed. based on russian nostratic work.
: occasional secondary d- < t- do exist.
looking it up, t > nostratic t` ; d > nostratic t_ (t with ^ underneath)
y < *d (or *dh*) < nostartic d (I think)
perhaps miguel can make something out of it.
: : Germanic begins with d-, as in Engish deer. Tier is a later development in
: : German proper. The word goes back to PIE *dh (Greek the:r, Latin fer-al).
: : It tells us a lot about your competence, credulity, and general methodology
: : that you constantly cite Germanic forms that a moment's checking would tell
: : you go back to different consonants.
: : > Sumerian ti (arrow), TUrkic tU (needle), Turkic tik (to sew), Turkic
: : > tUle (to sew)
: oghuz dik=
this comes from dik "erect" as dik= also means "to insert something", "to
erect a monument etc."
: as well throw in persian ti:r "arrow".
: : Wonderful. You're throwing together to Turkic words which are obviously
: : related by a verbalizing suffix, which reduces your set from four to three.
: : > Turkic tuy (to fasten together, semantic shift from 'to sew'), English
: : > tie (to fasten together)
: oghuz dUg= old turkic tUg=
: : Again, you really need to think before tossing together modern Germanic
: : forms with other languages. English tie is related to tug, tow, German
: : zug-, etc., and more distantly to Latin duc-. The original meaning was
: : something like "to pull, tug, lead."
: : > Sumerian te (to say, speak), Turkic de (to say, speak), English tell (to
: : > say, speak)
: : Original meaning of the English is "to count."
: : > Turkic sOz (word), sOyle (to say), English say (to say), German sagen
: : > (to say)
: : Germanic forms going back to PIE *sakw, I think.
: : More generally, notice that by using modern English forms, you virtually
: : ensure that the forms are closer in the present than in the past. That
: : pretty much ensures they are random resemblances. As a result, your
: : Germanic correspondences are spurious. This means your pile of stones
: : reduces to three pair involving Turkic and Sumerian. Unimpressive.
: : > Anyone interested in knowing why arrow and life are connected together?
: : If I wanted creative mythology, I'd go see _The Blair Witch Project_.
: : Mikael Thompson
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
Gursey) wrote:
>: oghuz has diri, old turkic tirig. oghuz d- is generally more archaic,
>: so one has *dirig. I'll have to check which PIE phoneme it corresponds to
>: in menges tur. lang. & peoples 2nd ed. based on russian nostratic work.
>: occasional secondary d- < t- do exist.
>
>looking it up, t > nostratic t` ; d > nostratic t_ (t with ^ underneath)
>y < *d (or *dh*) < nostartic d (I think)
>
>perhaps miguel can make something out of it.
Well, Dybo's phonetic tables to Illich-Svitych's "Opyt" indeed
give:
PNostr -> PAlt --> PTurk
t.- t`- t`-
-t.- -t- -t-
t- t- t-
-t- -d- -D- (fric.)
-d- ,, ,,
d- d- j-
Unfortunately, the T's are not in the dictionary, so I can only
make an educated guess that Illich-Svitych's Proto-Turkic *t`- is
the sound that sometimes appears as t- and sometimes as d-
(usually given as *t), while Illic-Svitych's PT *t- is apparently
what's usually given as *d- (but there's I think considerable
controversy in Altaic/Turkic studies about those initial stops).
Also, there's considerable controversy within Nostratic about the
Nostratic stops (Bomhard favours PN *t' *t *d > PA *t-/*-d-,
*t-/*-t-, *d-/*-d-).
As far as I can tell, no obvious IE cognate in sight (the
apparent ones are false leads: Gmc. deer/dier/Tier < *dhwes-
[Lat. bestia] and Grk. the:r- < *g^hwer- [Lat. ferus])
Dave Timpe
Brian M. Scott <BMS...@stratos.net> wrote in message
news:37AE42...@stratos.net...
| Chris Robato Yao wrote:
|
| > In <7og8k4$9bu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Chris S. <van...@my-deja.com> writes:
|
| > >Hawaiian's "poloka" meaning the same thing. Even though they're both
| > >Malay-Polynesian languages, my dictionary says "poloka" comes from
| > >English.
|
|
| syllables, and the substitutions of /p/, /l/, and /k/ for /f/, /r/, and
| /g/, none of which Hawai'ian has, all seem natural enough.
Remember, "Merry Christmas" comes out as "Mele (or is it Meele) Kalikimaka".
It's the same kind of thing.
--
Dave Timpe
davetimpe at cybrzn dot com
Dave Timpe
<mith...@indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:37AE2CC1...@indiana.edu...
[analysis of Hubeymology]
Hey, for once Hubey's posts are appropriate. This is a thread about words
which appear to be related but probably aren't, after all! BTW I think I
just discovered how Whittet came up with "Hubby" for Hubey's name. My spell
checker just tried to pull the same switch on me. Now let's see what it
does to "Whittet". (A long list of choices, led by "Whitest", to which I
responded by the only suitable choice for both of them: "Ignore All").
Dave Timpe
<mith...@indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:37AE2C15...@indiana.edu...
| English tongue is cognate with Latin lingua, Russian yaz-yk, etc. Tooth
is
| cognate with Latin dent-is, Greek odont-, etc.
Yazyk must have an interesting etymology, then. I know about lingua.
H.M.Hubey
Patrick Chew wrote:
>
> Chris Robato Yao wrote:
> > I can't imagine how poloka came from English.
>
> "Brian M. Scott" wrote:
> > I wouldn't have guessed it, but it makes sense. Hawai'ian wants CV
> > syllables, and the substitutions of /p/, /l/, and /k/ for /f/, /r/, and
> > /g/, none of which Hawai'ian has, all seem natural enough.
>
> "H.M.Hubey" wrote:
> > Which is a nice example of a simple fact that many linguists forget;
> > that borrowings/copyings also go through regular sound changes
> > and therefore "systematic sound correspondences" can be found
> > between the borrower/copier and the donor.
> >
> > so the constant yelping about "systematic sound correspondences"
> > is a no-brainer. It is a heuristic that says that the languages
> > in which they appear may be genetically related.
>
> There is, of course, nativization of loan-words such that they undergo
> the same sound shifts that native-native words undergo. However, when
> loans can be dated, it's no wonder that there're "systematic sound
> correspondences" as you so deride. Just like "Meli Kelikimaka" is "Merry
> Christmas," using what vowels and consonants Hawai`ian has.
No, no, no. Let's get this straight. The big argument is about what
it means. All I said was that practically speaking it means "recurrent"
or "repeated". That is all. Nobody can make up a rule for a single
case. But rules can be made up for more than one. Several rules
might have to be made up. But then again, that regular sound
correspondence is not sufficient for geneticity. It's not even
required if other probabilistic methods can be found which subsumes
the heuristic. Let's not join the redneck gang and twist my words
out of context.
Look at this comparison (KBAl --> Turkish)
qIrq = kIrk q = k
qICIrIq = hICkIrIk q = h
tashmaqa = tosbaGa, maqIr=baGIr q=G
bagha = paha gh=h
kel == gel k = g
kir = kir, kUrek=kUrek k = k
khan = han kh = h
Nobody claims these words are not native. More examples can be found.
There are probably even more.
> As for the topic of nativization of loan-words and the subsequent sound
> shifting, Korean is an excellent example of this:
>
> "heaven, sky" MidChin *thi@n > MidKor *thy@n >ModKor <ch'eon>
> "blue/green/black" MC *thi@ng> MK *thy@ng > ModK <ch'eong>
> "together" (orthography) kath-i > [kach'i]
>
> etc etc etc... however, we're not going to say that neither <ch'eon>
> or <ch'eong> is a native Korean word...
>
> cheers,
> -Patrick
--
H.M.Hubey
Cluster User wrote:
>
> O
> >from Turkic *sub, *cub, yibi, cibi etc. So now where can
> >yaban come from. There is really easy yaman (jaman, caman)
> >meaning "bad". Well wild animals are not well-behaved.
> >
>
> yaban was pronounced with long vowels, indicating that turks
> thought of iit as foreign.
Old Turkic had 16 vowels, short and long. Were all the long
vowels foreign?
H.M.Hubey
mith...@indiana.edu wrote:
>
> H.M.Hubey wrote:
>
> > "H.M.Hubey" wrote:
> >
> > > Sumerian ti (arrow), TUrkic tU (needle), Turkic tik (to sew), Turkic
> > > tUle (to sew)
> >
> > 1. long pointed objects:
> > til (tongue), tish (tooth)---compare to Engolish tongue, tooth/teeth;
>
> English tongue is cognate with Latin lingua, Russian yaz-yk, etc. Tooth is
> cognate with Latin dent-is, Greek odont-, etc.
>
> > Turkish sUngU (bayonet), Tatar sOng (spear), sUle(to make war, fight)
> > KBal suk (to insert into, thrust into), Turkish sok (to insert into, to
> > thrust into),
> > Turkic sik (penis, to have intercourse), KBAl sok (to thrust, to beat
> > up, compare to toku),
> > Turkish/Turkic sOk (to destroy, to tear apart),
>
> > What journal would be appropriate for dozens of these words connected
> > and
> > organized together with regular sound changes, and regular semantic
> > connections?
>
> When you actually have some with regular sound correspondences and semantic
> correspondences, maybe we'll inflict you on someone. Until then, go back to
> the drawing board. Your constant reliance on modern English is enough to show
I have already pointed this out at least a half a dozen times; but let's
do this one more time. The fact that some amateurs use modern languages
does not mean much for a very simple reason. If the modern language
descends from its ancestor via regular sound changes (otherwise called
the exlax rule) then it would be trivial to change it to match its
ancestor. IT is such trivial truth that it's hard to see how someone
can make this mistake over and over again, unless mentally retarded.
> you're an idiotic amateur with a chip on his shoulder, besides suggesting your
> Sumerian corrspondences are equally second-hand and amateurish. You don't
> know what you're doing. Continue making laughing stock of yourself if you
> want, but don't be surprised if linguists continue telling you how much of a
> fool you are.
Let the readers read. I already told you there are dozens of these
words,
literally dozens. The problem is with your low IQ. You probably studied
linguistics because you found it easy to memorize things like a parrot
and were low on deductive and mathematical skills. You probably flunked
those dreaded "word problems". It is quite easy to see. I see students
like you in my classes by the dozens every semester. They cannot connect
even the simplest math with real world concepts and hence are totally
incapable of doing any mathematical science. So they try to convince
everyone that they should not do it, especially their students.
>
> > Which journal has competent referees and a competent
> > editor?
>
> None that would accept this work.
That is why it will be published in a book. I can't wait for the
dinosaurs to die. It's difficult to be a leader. It's always easy
to be a mentally-retarded follower.
> Mikael Thompson
H.M.Hubey
Dave Timpe wrote:
>
> <mith...@indiana.edu> wrote in message
> news:37AE2C15...@indiana.edu...
>
> | English tongue is cognate with Latin lingua, Russian yaz-yk, etc. Tooth
>
> | cognate with Latin dent-is, Greek odont-, etc.
>
> Yazyk must have an interesting etymology, then. I know about lingua.
Yazyk is likely borrowed from Turkic. It's doubtful that Slavic word
for tongue is yazyk. But Thompson is not a thinker, he is a memorizer
and he is running out of RAM :-)
He will be very happy when September rolls around and I go back
to my real work :-)
Poor guy still does not know why I selected him and DAniels (his
other obnoxious cousin) for special treatment :-)
H.M.Hubey
"H.M.Hubey" wrote:
>
> "
> 1. long pointed objects
> old Turkic, sU (to make war, fight)
> the doublet/ikileme dawur sUyUr (fighting). I already posted about
> tawush.tovish,
> dabish etc.
>
> Turkish sUngU (bayonet), Tatar sOng (spear), sUle(to make war, fight)
> KBal suk (to insert into, thrust into), Turkish sok (to insert into, to
> thrust into),
With s > h > 0, sok > ok (arrow) which is Common Turkic.
> Turkic sik (penis, to have intercourse), KBAl sok (to thrust, to beat
> up, compare to toku),
> Turkish/Turkic sOk (to destroy, to tear apart),
>
H.M.Hubey
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> mith...@indiana.edu wrote:
> : More nonsense.
>
> : H.M.Hubey wrote:
>
> : > Sumerian ti (life), German(ic?) tier (animal), Turkic tiri (alive).
>
> oghuz has diri, old turkic tirig. oghuz d- is generally more archaic,
> so one has *dirig. I'll have to check which PIE phoneme it corresponds to
> in menges tur. lang. & peoples 2nd ed. based on russian nostratic work.
> occasional secondary d- < t- do exist.
>
> : Germanic begins with d-, as in Engish deer. Tier is a later development in
> : German proper. The word goes back to PIE *dh (Greek the:r, Latin fer-al).
> : It tells us a lot about your competence, credulity, and general methodology
> : that you constantly cite Germanic forms that a moment's checking would tell
> : you go back to different consonants.
This is great. Now we have Nostratic. HOw does anyone know what comes
from what? Aha.. the exlax rule of Thompson. I guess you did not read
the papers I posted. Are you having problems understanding what is
written, oh great scientist?
You never answered, how old are you?
> : > Sumerian ti (arrow), TUrkic tU (needle), Turkic tik (to sew), Turkic
> : > tUle (to sew)
>
> oghuz dik=
YEs, this is the thing that ties Sumerian ti (life) and Sumerian (ti)
arrow.
You hit it on the head.
> as well throw in persian ti:r "arrow".
That too. Along with Magyar tU (needle) it is from the same paradigm.
> : Wonderful. You're throwing together to Turkic words which are obviously
> : related by a verbalizing suffix, which reduces your set from four to three.
>
> : > Turkic tuy (to fasten together, semantic shift from 'to sew'), English
> : > tie (to fasten together)
>
> oghuz dUg= old turkic tUg=
Yep, and there is more, much more.
> : Again, you really need to think before tossing together modern Germanic
> : forms with other languages. English tie is related to tug, tow, German
> : zug-, etc., and more distantly to Latin duc-. The original meaning was
> : something like "to pull, tug, lead."
I am going back to Nostratic and protoworld, something that requires
intelligence, knowledge and imagination none of which you possess. In
a few years, all of your memorized words will be on a CD and its search
engine will work 1000 times faster than your brain. You better start
practicing making french fries.
> : > Sumerian te (to say, speak), Turkic de (to say, speak), English tell (to
> : > say, speak)
>
> : Original meaning of the English is "to count."
IT does not matter fool. Words are produced from others and the meanings
and sounds spread out (diffuse). Check my papers. Check Kbal terge (to
calculate).
> : > Turkic sOz (word), sOyle (to say), English say (to say), German sagen
> : > (to say)
>
> : Germanic forms going back to PIE *sakw, I think.
I guess you never heard of attempting to extract the signal from noise,
and how to discriminate between seemingly correct forms. These words
date
from an earlier era and point to Nostratic or Protoworld of some sort.
> : More generally, notice that by using modern English forms, you virtually
> : ensure that the forms are closer in the present than in the past. That
> : pretty much ensures they are random resemblances. As a result, your
> : Germanic correspondences are spurious. This means your pile of stones
> : reduces to three pair involving Turkic and Sumerian. Unimpressive.
AGain, and again. If there are regular sound changes between language A
and B, there will be regular sound changes between any ancestor of A
and any ancestor of B. That is the principle used to reconstruct
protolanguages you oaf.
> : > Anyone interested in knowing why arrow and life are connected together?
>
> : If I wanted creative mythology, I'd go see _The Blair Witch Project_.
That is why you will be laughing stock of the future. The linguists of
the
future will read Dejanews and laugh at the dinosaurs of the late 20th
century, their stupidity, their ignorance, their viciousness, their
meanness, and their incompetence exactly the way we look back at the
DArk Ages.
> : Mikael Thompson
H.M.Hubey
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal wrote:
>
>
> As far as I can tell, no obvious IE cognate in sight (the
> apparent ones are false leads: Gmc. deer/dier/Tier < *dhwes-
> [Lat. bestia] and Grk. the:r- < *g^hwer- [Lat. ferus])
IT would be good to have all these words on CD ROM finally.
Soon there will be commercial data-mining programs available
that will find such connections automatically. All we need
is some way to create a metric space for semantics and
we go.
It would be nice to have alternative reconstructions.
H.M.Hubey
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal wrote:
>
> On Sun, 08 Aug 1999 20:30:21 -0400, "H.M.Hubey"
> <hub...@mail.montclair.edu> wrote:
>
> >Sumerian ti (life)
>
> Actually til (ti-la "living" < til + -a).
OK. That means Anttila now needs to get it right. YOu
can find it on page 38.
And it's not only Anttila. it is given in Tuna's book
as tin (Leben, MSL, III, 141) which is Benno Landsberger,
Materials for a Sumerian Lexicon, Vols, III, IV, V, 1995.
> >Sumerian te (to say, speak)
>
> No such verb. Probably a misanalysis of -e-, suppletive form of
> -dug4- "to say, to speak".
This goes back to Tuna's book. The mistake is mine. The word
is di and it comes from Grd. 342 which is Edmund, I, Gordon,
Sumerian Proverbs, Philadelphia, UNiv of Phil. Publications,1959.
So they stay.
H.M.Hubey
nonsense. I have gotten so used to going into insult mode whenever
I see Thompon's name that it slipped my mind that this post is
from Yusuf.
"H.M.Hubey" wrote:
>
> Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> >
> > mith...@indiana.edu wrote:
> > : More nonsense.
> This is great. Now we have Nostratic. HOw does anyone know what comes
> from what? Aha.. the exlax rule of Thompson. I guess you did not read
> the papers I posted. Are you having problems understanding what is
> written, oh great scientist?
>
> You never answered, how old are you?
This was meant for Thompson.
Ditto for the rest.
Sorry about that Yusuf.
> > : Mikael Thompson
Brian M. Scott
[...]
> All we need
> is some way to create a metric space for semantics [...]
A mere bagatelle, of course ...
Brian M. Scott
H.M.Hubey
"H.M.Hubey" wrote:
>
> IT would be good to have all these words on CD ROM finally.
> Soon there will be commercial data-mining programs available
> that will find such connections automatically. All we need
> is some way to create a metric space for semantics and
> we go.
>
> It would be nice to have alternative reconstructions.
Subject: [ML] 1000-Pentium beowulf computer for research on
human-competitive machine intelligence
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:27:29 -0700
From: "John Koza" <ko...@smi.stanford.edu>
Reply-To: <ko...@stanford.edu>
To: "ml-egroups" <machine-...@eGroups.com>
Hello:
We have just posted photos of our recently installed 1,000-Pentium
Beowulf-style cluster computer system consisting of a server and 1,000
Pentium II 350-MHz processors. It is constructed entirely from
"Commodity
Off The Shelf" (COTS) components.
This new machine is operated by Genetic Programming Inc., a privately
funded
research group aimed at producing human-competitive results using
genetic
programming. Genetic programming is an automated method for creating a
working computer program from a high-level problem statement of a
problem.
Genetic programming evolves computer programs by genetically breeding a
population of computer programs using the principles of Darwinian
natural
selection and biologically inspired operations. We are currently
working in
the areas of automated synthesis of analog electrical circuits and
controllers, problems in computational molecular biology, various other
problems involving cellular automata, multi-agent systems, operations
research, and other areas of design, and using genetic programming as an
automated "invention machine" for creating new and useful patentable
inventions.
There are now a number of instances where genetic programming has
automatically produced a computer program that is competitive with human
performance. Competitiveness with human performance can be established
in a
variety of ways. For example, genetic programming may produce a result
that
is slightly better, equal, or slightly worse than that produced by a
succession of human researchers working on an well-defined problem over
a
period of years. Or, genetic programming may produce a result that is
equivalent to an invention that was patented in the past or that is
patentable today as a new invention. The fact that genetic programming
can
evolve entities that are competitive with human-produced results
suggests
that genetic programming may possibly be used as an "invention machine"
to
create new and useful patentable inventions.
Each of the 1,000 processors of our parallel computer system has a
Pentium
II 350-MHz processor. Each processor uses 64 megabytes of RAM (so that
the
system as a whole has 64 gigabytes of RAM). The 1000 Pentium II
processors
reside on 500 dual-CPU ATX motherboards and each motherboard is housed
in a
standard mini-tower box. Each mini-tower box contains 128 megabytes of
RAM,
a 100 megabit-per-second Ethernet NIC, and a standard 300W power
switching
power supply. There is no hard disk, video monitor, keyboard, floppy
disk
drive, or other input-output device associated with any of the 1,000
processors. The processors run the Linux operating system (Red Hat Linux
6.0). The communication between processors and between the server and
the
processors is by means of 100 megabit-per-second Ethernet. Each group 40
processors (20 boxes) is connected to one 24-port 100 megabit-per-second
Ethernet hub. There are 25 hubs in the system. Each hub is connected on
its
uplink to one of two 100 megabit-per-second 16-port Ethernet switches.
The
two switches are connected to each other and to the server.
The server computer is also a dual Pentium II 350-MHz processor. The
server
has 256 MB of RAM. It runs on the Linux operating system (Red Hat Linux
6.0
from VA Linux Research). The server contains a 14 GB hard disk, a video
display monitor, a floppy disk drive, a CD ROM drive, and a keyboard.
The system is booted using a DHCP message from the server to the 1,000
processors. We used the Beoboot software from Rembo Technology SaRL,
Geneva, Switzerland. The 500 boxes directly access the server's file
system
using NFS.
Additional information about the machine and genetic programming (and
job
opportunities) can be found at http://www.genetic-programming.com
John R. Koza
Consulting Professor
Stanford Medical Informatics
Department of Medicine
Medical School Office Building
Stanford University
Stanford, California 94305
Consulting Professor
Department of Electrical Engineering
School of Engineering
Stanford University
Phone: 650-941-0336
Fax: 650-941-9430
E-Mail: ko...@stanford.edu
WWW Home Page: http://www.smi.stanford.edu/people/koza
E-Mail: ko...@genetic-programming.com
For information about field of genetic programming:
http://www.genetic-programming.org
For information about GECCO-2000 (GP-2000) conference in Las Vegas on
July
8 -12, 2000, visit:
http://www.genetic-algorithm.org/GECCO2000/gecco2000mainpage.htm
H.M.Hubey
"Brian M. Scott" wrote:
>
> H.M.Hubey wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > All we need
> > is some way to create a metric space for semantics [...]
>
> A mere bagatelle, of course ...
Instead of playing housekeeper and body guard to a couple of
megalomaniacal illiterates like Thompson and Daniels and
indulging in useless nitpicking why don't you think of some
way to handle this problem?
Why did you get a PhD in math if all you're going to do
is jawbone on sci.lang ?
I already know what to do; I just don't have the time.
> Brian M. Scott
H.M.Hubey
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> H.M.Hubey (hub...@mail.montclair.edu) wrote:
>
> : Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> : >
> : > mith...@indiana.edu wrote:
> : > : More nonsense.
> : >
> : > : H.M.Hubey wrote:
> : >
> : > : > Sumerian ti (life), German(ic?) tier (animal), Turkic tiri (alive).
> : >
> : > oghuz has diri, old turkic tirig. oghuz d- is generally more archaic,
> : > so one has *dirig. I'll have to check which PIE phoneme it corresponds to
> : > in menges tur. lang. & peoples 2nd ed. based on russian nostratic work.
> : > occasional secondary d- < t- do exist.
> : >
> : > : Germanic begins with d-, as in Engish deer. Tier is a later development in
> : > : German proper. The word goes back to PIE *dh (Greek the:r, Latin fer-al).
> : > : It tells us a lot about your competence, credulity, and general methodology
> : > : that you constantly cite Germanic forms that a moment's checking would tell
> : > : you go back to different consonants.
>
> : This is great. Now we have Nostratic. HOw does anyone know what comes
>
> what's worng with that? that is what you are doing in a roundabout way.
>
> : from what? Aha.. the exlax rule of Thompson. I guess you did not read
> : the papers I posted. Are you having problems understanding what is
>
> who are you addressing?
>
> : written, oh great scientist?
>
> : You never answered, how old are you?
>
> who are you addressing?
> ask me when we meet socially.
>
> : > : > Sumerian ti (arrow), TUrkic tU (needle), Turkic tik (to sew), Turkic
> : > : > tUle (to sew)
> : >
> : > oghuz dik=
>
> : YEs, this is the thing that ties Sumerian ti (life) and Sumerian (ti)
> : arrow.
> : You hit it on the head.
>
> : > as well throw in persian ti:r "arrow".
>
> : That too. Along with Magyar tU (needle) it is from the same paradigm.
>
> you said it was turkic. reference please.
>
> : > : Wonderful. You're throwing together to Turkic words which are obviously
> : > : related by a verbalizing suffix, which reduces your set from four to three.
> : >
> : > : > Turkic tuy (to fasten together, semantic shift from 'to sew'), English
> : > : > tie (to fasten together)
> : >
> : > oghuz dUg= old turkic tUg=
>
> : Yep, and there is more, much more.
>
> : > : Again, you really need to think before tossing together modern Germanic
> : > : forms with other languages. English tie is related to tug, tow, German
> : > : zug-, etc., and more distantly to Latin duc-. The original meaning was
> : > : something like "to pull, tug, lead."
>
> : I am going back to Nostratic and protoworld, something that requires
> : intelligence, knowledge and imagination none of which you possess. In
>
> who are you addressing?
>
> : a few years, all of your memorized words will be on a CD and its search
> : engine will work 1000 times faster than your brain. You better start
> : practicing making french fries.
>
> ditto.
>
> :
> : > : > Sumerian te (to say, speak), Turkic de (to say, speak), English tell (to
> : > : > say, speak)
> : >
> : > : Original meaning of the English is "to count."
>
> : IT does not matter fool. Words are produced from others and the meanings
> : and sounds spread out (diffuse). Check my papers. Check Kbal terge (to
> : calculate).
> :
>
> ditto.
>
> : > : > Turkic sOz (word), sOyle (to say), English say (to say), German sagen
> : > : > (to say)
> : >
> : > : Germanic forms going back to PIE *sakw, I think.
>
> : I guess you never heard of attempting to extract the signal from noise,
> : and how to discriminate between seemingly correct forms. These words
> : date
> : from an earlier era and point to Nostratic or Protoworld of some sort.
>
> ditto.
>
> :
> : > : More generally, notice that by using modern English forms, you virtually
> : > : ensure that the forms are closer in the present than in the past. That
> : > : pretty much ensures they are random resemblances. As a result, your
> : > : Germanic correspondences are spurious. This means your pile of stones
> : > : reduces to three pair involving Turkic and Sumerian. Unimpressive.
>
> : AGain, and again. If there are regular sound changes between language A
> : and B, there will be regular sound changes between any ancestor of A
> : and any ancestor of B. That is the principle used to reconstruct
> : protolanguages you oaf.
>
> : > : > Anyone interested in knowing why arrow and life are connected together?
> : >
> : > : If I wanted creative mythology, I'd go see _The Blair Witch Project_.
>
> : That is why you will be laughing stock of the future. The linguists of
> : the
> : future will read Dejanews and laugh at the dinosaurs of the late 20th
> : century, their stupidity, their ignorance, their viciousness, their
> : meanness, and their incompetence exactly the way we look back at the
> : DArk Ages.
>
> : > : Mikael Thompson
>
> : --
Peter T. Daniels
> And it's not only Anttila. it is given in Tuna's book
> as tin (Leben, MSL, III, 141) which is Benno Landsberger,
> Materials for a Sumerian Lexicon, Vols, III, IV, V, 1995.
Well, that's wrong; those volumes of MSL were published in the early
1950s. Aren't you glad you have *someone* who knows how to read a
copyright page?
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@worldnet.att.net
Colin Fine
<hub...@mail.montclair.edu> writes
>
>
>"Brian M. Scott" wrote:
>>
>> Chris Robato Yao wrote:
>>
>>
>> > >Tagalog's "palaka" meaning "frog"
>> > >Hawaiian's "poloka" meaning the same thing. Even though they're both
>> > >Malay-Polynesian languages, my dictionary says "poloka" comes from
>> > >English.
>>
>>
>> syllables, and the substitutions of /p/, /l/, and /k/ for /f/, /r/, and
>> /g/, none of which Hawai'ian has, all seem natural enough.
>
>that borrowings/copyings also go through regular sound changes
>and therefore "systematic sound correspondences" can be found
>between the borrower/copier and the donor.
Certainly borrowings may go through sound changes - and of two types:
changes to fit the borrowing language's phonology at the time of
borrowing, and subsequent sound changes in the borrowing language.
A fascinating set of examples are given by Chinese borrowings into
Japanese (on-doki). There are recognisably two distinct periods in which
large numbers of words were borrowed, and all the following can be
recovered:
- the different form of the Chinese source words at the different stages
- the regular transformations applied to the Chinese words at the
different stages to fit them into contemporary Japanese phonology
- the subsequent changes they underwent in Japanese.
Not infrequently, modern Japanese contains doublets, where the same
Chinese word was adopted at both periods.
>
>so the constant yelping about "systematic sound correspondences"
>is a no-brainer. It is a heuristic that says that the languages
>in which they appear may be genetically related.
Of course it is a heuristic. But it is rather a strong one - and it is
important in applying it to exclude the effects of borrowings. Obviously
there are cases where it cannot be told whether a particular word is
borrowed or not, but in many cases it can. For example, IIRC Japanese
did not contain syllables with final -n, with doubled vowels, or with
Cy- onset until the above-mentioned borrowings.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Colin Fine 66 High Ash, Shipley, W Yorks. BD18 1NE, UK |
| Tel: 01274 592696/0976 635354 e-mail: co...@kindness.demon.co.uk |
| "Don't just do something! Stand there!" |
| - from 'Behold the Spirit' (workshop) |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
<dave...@NOSPAMcybrzn.com> wrote:
><mith...@indiana.edu> wrote in message
>news:37AE2C15...@indiana.edu...
>
>| English tongue is cognate with Latin lingua, Russian yaz-yk, etc. Tooth
>is
>| cognate with Latin dent-is, Greek odont-, etc.
>
>Yazyk must have an interesting etymology, then. I know about lingua.
jazyk < je~zykU < *enzu:ko(s) < *(d)n.g^u:-kos, with irregular
loss of *d- (also in OPruss. inzuwis "tongue", or Lith. ilgas <
*(d)lgh- "long").