The youth of today!!!
Ignoramus14233
$0.99?
I sold it on Craigslist. The buyer paid $150 for it, which was a great
deal for a working welder on a running gear, with a working TIG
attachment.
The interesting thing is that the buyer is a teenager. (!!!)
I delivered and helped him unload. What he told me, then, was that he
was going to convert it to single phase by installing capacitors on
the primary side of the transformer.
I immediately gifted him the oil filled run caps that I had.
After a couple of weeks, he told me that it works great.
What I think, seriously, is that this guy may be the next Tesla. It is
not really a huge accomplishment (just a great one) for a grownup, but
for a teenager, it is pretty tremendous.
My stereotype of today's teenagers is that the ony thing they are good
at is using cell phones and twitter. Turns out, that not all people
are like that.
i
Tim Wescott
Be nice to them -- they'll be our salvation when Chinese wages start
reaching parity with ours, and we realize that we don't remember how to
make stuff any more.
--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
Martin H. Eastburn
Maybe Google help or Dad. There has been a number of news feeds on the subject.
Either way, he is on his way up the road to independence.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/
Searcher7
We can just ask them how we use to make stuff, since they are so good
at copying originally U.S. made items.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
dan
sci.engr.joining.welding mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Sat, 15 May 2010 17:52:21 -0500:
>What I think, seriously, is that this guy may be the next Tesla. It is
>not really a huge accomplishment (just a great one) for a grownup, but
>for a teenager, it is pretty tremendous.
especially for todays teenagers. There was a time that teens tinkered
with all sorts of things. The result of not having much cash.
--
Dan H.
northshore MA.
TinLizziedl
on working farms / ranches have a much higher likelyhood of becoming
"technologically independent" than city-bred kids. There's more stuff
around to tinker with, and parents are more likely to encourage their
kid to "fix" things.
Plus, it's a lot easier to get away with "fixing" that illicit project
your parents don't know about in that old barn out in the back forty.
Survival is often a sign of either luck or some modicum of skill....
Perhaps our nation should look at a voluntary program where city folk
swap kids with the country folk for a year, when said kids are around 12
to 14 years old. Once those gangbanger wannabe's have delivered a calf,
cut asparagus, painted a barn, shoveled manure, butchered a steer, and
harvested apples and wheat, all the while maintaining the equipment that
they use, perhaps they'll do a little better in school and later in
life.
The farmer kids could learn what "nintendo thumb" is, and how to
incorrectly spell every single word in a text message.
--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long
In article <4bf000a...@news20.forteinc.com>, no...@privacy.net
says...
Ignoramus19744
> Did said teenager have a farming background?
No, scientists.
> I believe that kids raised on working farms / ranches have a much
> higher likelyhood of becoming "technologically independent" than
> city-bred kids. There's more stuff around to tinker with, and
> parents are more likely to encourage their kid to "fix" things.
I agree.
> Plus, it's a lot easier to get away with "fixing" that illicit project
> your parents don't know about in that old barn out in the back forty.
> Survival is often a sign of either luck or some modicum of skill....
>
> Perhaps our nation should look at a voluntary program where city folk
> swap kids with the country folk for a year, when said kids are around 12
> to 14 years old. Once those gangbanger wannabe's have delivered a calf,
> cut asparagus, painted a barn, shoveled manure, butchered a steer, and
> harvested apples and wheat, all the while maintaining the equipment that
> they use, perhaps they'll do a little better in school and later in
> life.
Not enough farms for this.
i
> The farmer kids could learn what "nintendo thumb" is, and how to
> incorrectly spell every single word in a text message.
>
>
>
Jon Danniken
>
> My stereotype of today's teenagers is that the ony thing they are good
> at is using cell phones and twitter. Turns out, that not all people
> are like that.
I recently dumped a bunch of old things on Craigslist for very low prices,
one of which was a mower which would start then die (but was otherwise still
"bright and shiney") for a buck. Of all the projects I have, fixing another
mower for fun is no longer on the list.
A kid about 18 picked it up. Clean looking kid, in an older, small truck.
I was glad that he got it, and I hope he was able to get it running and make
a few bucks on it.
Jon
Stormin Mormon
have a gift.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Jon Danniken" <jonSPAMMEN...@yahSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
news:hspv1d$v19$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Stormin Mormon
and then tighten the noose around our wallets.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tim Wescott" <t...@seemywebsite.now> wrote in message
news:mNadndoPCdlfsnLW...@web-ster.com...
Tim Wescott
> I think that's the plan. Cheapjunk us, until all our factories close,
> and then tighten the noose around our wallets.
I'm not sure that they're thinking that far ahead -- they _are_
politicians, even if they're more crooked (or at least more blatantly
crooked) than ours.
But that's what's going to happen, in effect.
I don't think it's all that bad, on a number of different levels -- I
don't think they're going to maintain their totalitarian society when
their prosperity gains level off, if they're busy trying to peacefully
stomp our businesses into the ground they won't be busy trying to stomp
our coastal defenses into the ground, and I can't be against them
bringing themselves up to a higher standard of living.
If the Islamic fruitcakes in the Middle East were as good of business
people as the Chinese, they could have bought the damn twin towers and
papered over them with sayings from the Koran. But you have to turn off
so many brain cells to be a religious fruitcake, you can't have enough
left over to do business well.
If there's material salvation for us it's the whole "DIY" movement, with
the rent-a-shops &c. I don't think we're _all_ going to forget how to
work. Or at least I hope...
TinLizziedl
t...@seemywebsite.now says...
Unfortunately, the religious nuts out there DO have a certain modicum of
"DIY" ingenuity. Blowing up cars, digging tunnels, evading roadblocks,
hijacking planes, welding piping for nuclear centrifuges and getting
ahold of weapons are only a few of the things they're good at. Safely
landing airplanes and placing inherent value in human life seems beyond
them, however.
If only the rest of us didn't need that black gold over there. Let the
fools spend their time trying to kill each other off, undisturbed by the
modern world.
Ignoramus8858
And this is why I support "alternative energy". I would prefer the
whole country covered with windmills, nuclear power stations, etc to
having to kiss their asses.
Even the Three Mile Island accident was, essentially, a triumph of
nuclear safety.
Then we would need oil for chemical production only.
I also agree with Buffett in that 20 years from now, almost all
vehicles will be electric.
i
Tim Wescott
I have a book about the rise and fall of Islamic empire, titled "What
Went Wrong?". When Islam started its rise Western Europe was a bunch of
washed-up effete former Romans arguing over how to worship a vaguely
defined messiah, and a bunch of shouting pagan fools trying to kill each
other off (to paraphrase). Islam made tremendous advances in all
directions -- to the point where they owned Spain and damn near overran
Vienna.
Then somehow, they just ossified after several hundred years. First the
advances slowed, then they stopped, then the Western/Christian world
started a halting but inexorable advance on its own. Islamic countries
have tried rejecting Western values (didn't work), they've tried
emulating us, even to their clothing, they've tried barring their door,
they've tried opening it wide -- _nothing_ has worked.
(Note that they haven't tried real hard at decent education for all,
religious freedom, women's rights, or even freedom of speech & press.
All that nasty 'Liberal' stuff that folks who call Islamic folk names
look down on.)
For a group of people who keep the memory of when they were set to take
over the entire world, the potential for frustrated rage is huge. O-B-L
is part of a larger crowd that wants to establish a Caliphate over as
much land as they can get a hand on -- and when they reach back far
enough, they actually have historic precedents to cite.
Good book. It puts a lot of an otherwise unfathomable attitude into
perspective. It doesn't give much guidance for what to _do_, but it
helps to understand.
Then read the last 1/3 of "Paris 1919: Six Months That Changed the
World", to understand just exactly how gloriously we screwed the Arabs
over with promises that we never intended to keep, and our ham-handed
and paternalistic efforts to help "those people" "learn civilization" at
the same time we were handing their second-holiest land over to people
they considered apostate. After that, you'll understand why trust will
be hard to build.
We're kind of at the point now where we should be saying "we keep
shitting on them and shitting on them and shitting on them and they
still don't like us!". Bush -- in his very poorly-communicated way --
was trying to help in Iraq, and may yet have managed it. But even if he
did good, the _way_ that he did it just looks like the Crusades all over
again -- and they still remember how the "Franks" acted then, and to
them we're still "Franks".
http://www.powells.com/partner/30696/biblio/9780375760525
http://www.powells.com/partner/30696/biblio/9780060516055
So yea -- if we could wean ourselves from oil, and set up a different
region of the world than Afghanistan for producing opium, we'd be set.
axolotl
> If there's material salvation for us it's the whole "DIY" movement, with
> the rent-a-shops &c. I don't think we're _all_ going to forget how to
> work. Or at least I hope...
>
I know a young fellow that covers both- one of my son's classmates that
is opening a rent-a-shop (member's shop?) in Boston.
Kevin Gallimore
TinLizziedl
> And this is why I support "alternative energy". I would prefer the
> whole country covered with windmills, nuclear power stations, etc to
> having to kiss their asses.
>
> Even the Three Mile Island accident was, essentially, a triumph of
> nuclear safety.
>
> Then we would need oil for chemical production only.
>
> I also agree with Buffett in that 20 years from now, almost all
> vehicles will be electric.
>
> i
>
Yep. I love my humungous V-8, getting 12 to 14 MPG, but I also love my
little Smart Car, getting 45 to 50 MPG.
I'm torn- Should we all drive big vehicles as much as humanly possible
so as to use up all the world's oil as quick as we can, forcing us to
evolve our power supplies? Or should we all drive extremely fuel-
efficient vehicles when we drive at all, so as to try to cut consumption
and stop making rich american-hating arabs and south-american despots
richer?
I favor "green" energy sources too, BUT-- Anyone here wanna calculate
the square footage of solar panels needed to strike and maintain a 110
Amp, 30 Volt welding arc for an average workday? Say, stick welding 30
to 45 lbs of 1/8" 11018? I bet those panels would be pretty darn big to
support just one welder.
Eregon
news:MPG.265f7f731...@news.west.earthlink.net:
> I favor "green" energy sources too, BUT-- Anyone here wanna calculate
> the square footage of solar panels needed to strike and maintain a 110
> Amp, 30 Volt welding arc for an average workday? Say, stick welding 30
> to 45 lbs of 1/8" 11018? I bet those panels would be pretty darn big to
> support just one welder.
And you STILL couldn't weld after nightfall... <G>
Once the sun sets the electricty stops.
Ignoramus15573
> --snip--
>
>> And this is why I support "alternative energy". I would prefer the
>> whole country covered with windmills, nuclear power stations, etc to
>> having to kiss their asses.
>>
>> Even the Three Mile Island accident was, essentially, a triumph of
>> nuclear safety.
>>
>> Then we would need oil for chemical production only.
>>
>> I also agree with Buffett in that 20 years from now, almost all
>> vehicles will be electric.
>>
>> i
>>
>
> Yep. I love my humungous V-8, getting 12 to 14 MPG, but I also love my
> little Smart Car, getting 45 to 50 MPG.
>
> I'm torn- Should we all drive big vehicles as much as humanly possible
> so as to use up all the world's oil as quick as we can, forcing us to
> evolve our power supplies? Or should we all drive extremely fuel-
> efficient vehicles when we drive at all, so as to try to cut consumption
> and stop making rich american-hating arabs and south-american despots
> richer?
I do not see why we could not, in principle, have big electric
vehicles, like electric pickup trucks. Why not?
> I favor "green" energy sources too, BUT-- Anyone here wanna calculate
> the square footage of solar panels needed to strike and maintain a 110
> Amp, 30 Volt welding arc for an average workday? Say, stick welding 30
> to 45 lbs of 1/8" 11018? I bet those panels would be pretty darn big to
> support just one welder.
With a couple of matteries and a charger system, they would not need
to be very big.
i
Ignoramus15573
sorry, batteries
Stuart Wheaton
Another one to add to your reading list is "A peace to End All Peace"
Details how the western Europeans split up the spoils of the Ottoman
empire after WWI. They created countries where no unity had ever
existed before and lumped together tribes that hated each other.
Then the Oil boom happened, and suddenly it mattered.
Pete C.
We have had big electric vehicles for a *long* time - diesel-electric
trains, electric trains with remote power (rail or catenary), the big
quary dump trucks are diesel electric as well. What we don't have is
batteries worth a damn for big applications.
Pete C.
What we need to *do* about it, is to get over the idea, entirely
unsupported by science and the evolution of every other mammal on the
planet, that humans are all alike and all have the same capacity for
civilization, rational thought and non violence. Once you shed that
absurd belief you realize that no matter how hard you try you will never
be able to change the evolutionary direction of divergent populations,
and you realize that you need to focus on containment.
dan
sci.engr.joining.welding mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
yahbut, When most people say "electric vehicles" they mean "battery
electric vehicles". Diesel electric trains are just using electricity
as a transmission of sorts. They can't re-capture energy with
regenerative breaking. However, electric trains and subways, can send
power back into the power lines during breaking.
Pete C.
Actually, they have diesel electric trains with batteries now. They are
dedicated "switcher" engines used in rail yards, and since they spend a
lot of time at less than full power, unlike the long distance engines,
they are able to use a smaller engine and generator sized for the
average demand and a battery pack to cover the peak demand.
Winston
(...)
> With a couple of matteries and a charger system, they would not need
> to be very big.
Indeed.
http://www.readywelder.com/10000adp.php
--Winston
Stuart Wheaton
Wow, did your white hood get in the way when you typed that?
I guess that means that Black people, as a class are not suited to
intellectual work, and Arabs cannot be peacemakers?
I won't even waste any more time on this other than saying that you are
utterly and completely wrong, and racist.
I do agree about containment, people like you should be in prison.
RoyJ
>
>> I favor "green" energy sources too, BUT-- Anyone here wanna calculate
>> the square footage of solar panels needed to strike and maintain a 110
>> Amp, 30 Volt welding arc for an average workday? Say, stick welding 30
>> to 45 lbs of 1/8" 11018? I bet those panels would be pretty darn big to
>> support just one welder.
>
> With a couple of matteries and a charger system, they would not need
> to be very big.
>
> i
The time ratio gets pretty ugly very quickly. A standard 120 portable
MIG welder draws around 2400 watts. A moderate solar panel (36" square)
puts out 45 watts in direct sunlight (and aimed at the sun)
http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-90599.html
So you would need an hour of charging to weld for 1 minute.
Pete C.
Nope, I'm not a racist. Racist is a term that is very often thrown out
incorrectly by those who do not want to consider possibilities that go
against their beliefs. I am not a racist by any means and I have and
have had friends of all races.
The fact is that every other mammal on the planet shows distinct
differences in behavior and other characteristics between their sub
species, and to deny that this fact of evolution which is seen in all
these other mammals could also apply to the human mammal and it's
subspecies is simply ridiculous. There are of course examples of
exceptional individuals of every mammal subspecies including humans, but
that doesn't negate the common characteristics of most members of the
subspecies.
While all humans appear to have common ancestors, groups of humans
spread out across the planet and continued to evolve in isolation from
one another and under conditions where different characteristics were
needed for survival, for thousands of years. In areas of the world where
violent cultures are prevalent, there continues to be a natural
selection process that favors the more violent elements. This is why you
have cases of people from these areas and cultures who get a "western"
education and every "western" opportunity to live a peaceful, productive
life, but when something goes wrong they revert to their violent
instincts.
dan
sci.engr.joining.welding mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
>Actually, they have diesel electric trains with batteries now. They are
>dedicated "switcher" engines used in rail yards, and since they spend a
>lot of time at less than full power, unlike the long distance engines,
>they are able to use a smaller engine and generator sized for the
>average demand and a battery pack to cover the peak demand.
Cool. A true hybrid train.
Eregon
news:ht7m3...@news3.newsguy.com:
Yahbut it doesn't do stick - which is what Ti Lizzie wanted. <G>
Eregon
news:orCdnb0dm7BKfmrW...@earthlink.com:
Or at least 60 such units.
Not only would that be expen$ive but would really clutter up the place -
and you >still< wouldn't be able to work after sundown or on cloudy days.
<G>
RoyJ
Yahbut, two storage batteries runs stick very nicely............. IF you
can get the stick lit. Very low OCV, sticks like crazy.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>(Note that they haven't tried real hard at decent education for all,
>religious freedom, women's rights, or even freedom of speech & press.
>All that nasty 'Liberal' stuff that folks who call Islamic folk names
>look down on.)
Blink blink....blink...those are all Conservative desires, hardly
Liberal ones.
Todays schools are run by Liberals..and are turning out kids who cant
read their diplomas.
Liberals HATE freedom of speech and the press, particularly from anyone
not a liberal
Liberals HATE religion
Conservatives believe in Womens Rights, as do Liberals..but Liberals
qualify that the women in question MUST believe in Women believing in
the same shit Liberals believe in
Tim...I cant believe you actually posted that paragraph of buffoonery.
Gunner
--
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Odd....I didnt see anything overtly racist or Klanish in his statements.
Or do you believe that great white sharks should be swimming without
barriers with your children?
Winston
IIRC, wind turbines yield higher bang for the buck
as do photovoltaics, on average.
Here y'go, $1.25 per peak watt:
http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?products_id=760
A 4.5 hour wind storm gets you an hour of welding per
turbine (at midnight, too.)
--Winston
Eregon
news:htaik...@news5.newsguy.com:
4.5 mph wind is pretty light, don't you think?
Somehow I was under the impression that you'd need a minimum of 15 mph to
get much in the way of electricity...
Stuart Wheaton
Imagine if they took the money it would cost to build 1 nuclear power
plant, and used it for a 50% subsidy to any homeowner with south facing
roof to put PV on their roof. Coupled with net metering, during peak
industrial load times, there would be lots of sunlit generating capacity.
Then let wind, fuel cells, and current coal and nuke generating capacity
serve the nights and cloudy days.
Building huge numbers of solar panels would drive down per unit costs.
There are some office towers in Europe that have solar on their sides
and are effectively self-sufficient. They not only supply their own
needs, but also put more into the grid in the day than they draw at night.
Stuart Wheaton
Put all the pretty weasel words on it that you want. it is still racism.
Scott Lurndal
>On Mon, 17 May 2010 13:48:19 -0700, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.now>
>wrote:
>
>>(Note that they haven't tried real hard at decent education for all,
>>religious freedom, women's rights, or even freedom of speech & press.
>>All that nasty 'Liberal' stuff that folks who call Islamic folk names
>>look down on.)
>
>Blink blink....blink...those are all Conservative desires, hardly
>Liberal ones.
Take off your blinders. Those are _universal desires_. Religious
freedom doesn't mean forcing christianity down the throats of school
children[*]. Women's rights doesn't mean restricting abortion. Freedom
of speech doesn't include illegal wiretaps on citizens by the government.
[*] Texas School Board, Prayer in School, etc.
>Liberals HATE freedom of speech and the press, particularly from anyone
>not a liberal
You are the only person exhibiting hate. Using the term 'liberal' as a
perjorative is clearly hate speech.
>
>Liberals HATE religion
No, they hate _forced religion_. 99% of liberals go to church every
sunday, but they don't force their neighbor to go to church, nor do they
even care whether or not their neighbor goes to church. They do care
if some stupid mofo tries to force them into their brand of
religion (whether it be Islam, Christianity, Judism, Buddist, Shinto
or Mithras).
Pete C.
Nope, it's realism.
Your "faith" believing that all humans are alike despite the total lack
of supporting scientific evidence and large volumes of scientific
evidence against that belief is just like the religious loons "faith"
believing their mythology despite the lack of any supporting scientific
evidence and large volumes of scientific evidence against it.
Winston
(...)
> 4.5 mph wind is pretty light, don't you think?
Very.
> Somehow I was under the impression that you'd need a minimum of 15 mph to
> get much in the way of electricity...
Without a performance curve, it is impossible to tell how fast one
must spin the rotor on this unit to obtain that 600W.
Mathmeisters in the group could use the basic fan law to set a
minimum MPH for 600 W.
I would not be at all surprised to see 15-20 MPH as a lower limit
for practical production.
I claim to know absolutely nothing about this stuff.
:)
--Winston
Eregon
$27...@FUSE.NET:
> Imagine if they took the money it would cost to build 1 nuclear power
> plant, and used it for a 50% subsidy to any homeowner with south facing
> roof to put PV on their roof.
If you limit the ca$h to only that used to fund the actual construction
then there wouldn't be much available to pay a subsidy.
Now, if you'd tell the ecofreaks to STFU about the plants and take the
money that's wasted on lawsuits instead then the available funds would be
far greater.
After all, the ecofreaks' strategy is to exponentiate costs through the
filing of a large number of frivolous lawsuits as well as to use these
lawsuits to delay - forever, they hope - actual construction.
Eregon
$27...@FUSE.NET:
> Put all the pretty weasel words on it that you want. it is still racism.
How so?
After all, we're all part of the same race - the HUMAN RACE.
Now, if you're envisioning Humans discriminating against Cockroaches...
Ed Huntress
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4bf97470$0$23568$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
Pete, I'm afraid you're mistaken about the scientific evidence. In fact,
you're in very deep water that is the subject of a great deal of study, with
several interesting findings occurring since the human genome has been
mapped.
I'm not going to argue the point itself, but humans *have* evolved
differently from most other mammals. That's the curiosity about it, and the
source of much interest in the subject's study. The curious thing is that
there is so little variation in our genetic makeups , across races. And the
battles between biological determinism (which you're essentially supporting)
and social determinism have yet to be settled. Drawing a connection between
genetic evolution and local-population behavioral traits is essentially a
no-man's land, to this day.
Two key biologic differences in human genetic evolution that separate us
from most mammals are mutation neutrality (most mutations, traceable
genetically, have no effect) and genetic polymorphism. And the key social
differences -- nurturing influences, cross-population exposure, and socially
influenced selection, which changes over time -- make it extremely difficult
to sort out regional, or racial evolutions.
Again, I'm not arguing the point, only pointing out that if you apply basic
evolutionary theory to regional or racial human populations, you're going to
get a lot of surprises and frustrations in trying to apply basic theory to
human behavior. The broad regression analysis that Murray applied in _The
Bell Curve_ just doesn't work out at all, except as statistical curiosities.
--
Ed Huntress
Tim Wescott
> On Mon, 17 May 2010 13:48:19 -0700, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.now>
> wrote:
>
>> (Note that they haven't tried real hard at decent education for all,
>> All that nasty 'Liberal' stuff that folks who call Islamic folk names
>> look down on.)
>
> Blink blink....blink...those are all Conservative desires, hardly
> Liberal ones.
>
> Todays schools are run by Liberals..and are turning out kids who cant
> read their diplomas.
>
> Liberals HATE freedom of speech and the press, particularly from anyone
> not a liberal
>
> Liberals HATE religion
>
> Conservatives believe in Womens Rights, as do Liberals..but Liberals
> qualify that the women in question MUST believe in Women believing in
> the same shit Liberals believe in
>
> Tim...I cant believe you actually posted that paragraph of buffoonery.
You're so cute when you lie.
--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
dan
sci.engr.joining.welding mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
>> IIRC, wind turbines yield higher bang for the buck
>> as do photovoltaics, on average.
>>
>> Here y'go, $1.25 per peak watt:
>> http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?products_id=760
>>
>> A 4.5 hour wind storm gets you an hour of welding per
>> turbine (at midnight, too.)
>>
>> --Winston
>>
>
>4.5 mph wind is pretty light, don't you think?
>
>Somehow I was under the impression that you'd need a minimum of 15 mph to
>get much in the way of electricity...
A wind storm that lasts for 4.5 hours. Not 4.5 mph.
Eregon
news:4bf9a3cf...@news20.forteinc.com:
How strong?
A Texas Panhandle "breeze" may be ~50 MPH while a Texas Coast "breeze"
can hit 175 MPH in a hurricane at the eye wall. When a Texas Coast
"breeze" blows anaemometers disappear and are never seen again!
west
>>>>> how to work. Or at least I hope...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, the religious nuts out there DO have a certain modicum
>>>> of "DIY" ingenuity. Blowing up cars, digging tunnels, evading
>>>> roadblocks, hijacking planes, welding piping for nuclear centrifuges
>>>> and getting ahold of weapons are only a few of the things they're good
>>>> at. Safely landing airplanes and placing inherent value in human life
>>>> seems beyond them, however.
>>>>
>>>> If only the rest of us didn't need that black gold over there. Let
>>>> the fools spend their time trying to kill each other off, undisturbed
>>>> by the modern world.
>>>
>>> I have a book about the rise and fall of Islamic empire, titled "What
>>> Went Wrong?". When Islam started its rise Western Europe was a bunch of
>>> washed-up effete former Romans arguing over how to worship a vaguely
>>> defined messiah, and a bunch of shouting pagan fools trying to kill each
>>> other off (to paraphrase). Islam made tremendous advances in all
>>> directions -- to the point where they owned Spain and damn near overran
>>> Vienna.
>>>
>>> Then somehow, they just ossified after several hundred years. First the
>>> advances slowed, then they stopped, then the Western/Christian world
>>> started a halting but inexorable advance on its own. Islamic countries
>>> have tried rejecting Western values (didn't work), they've tried
>>> emulating us, even to their clothing, they've tried barring their door,
>>> they've tried opening it wide -- _nothing_ has worked.
>>>
>>> religious freedom, women's rights, or even freedom of speech& press.
>>> All that nasty 'Liberal' stuff that folks who call Islamic folk names
>>> look down on.)
>>>
Someone buy this man a BEER!
Pete C.
Ed Huntress wrote:
>
> Pete, I'm afraid you're mistaken about the scientific evidence. In fact,
> you're in very deep water that is the subject of a great deal of study, with
> several interesting findings occurring since the human genome has been
> mapped.
I'm afraid I'm not buying a lot of that so called evidence, much of it
falls in the same junk class as the few pseudo-scientists who try to
build a pseudo case for "intelligent design" superstition. Many of the
studies are corrupted by politically correct self censoring and
preconceived results.
>
> I'm not going to argue the point itself, but humans *have* evolved
> differently from most other mammals. That's the curiosity about it, and the
> source of much interest in the subject's study. The curious thing is that
> there is so little variation in our genetic makeups , across races. And the
> battles between biological determinism (which you're essentially supporting)
> and social determinism have yet to be settled. Drawing a connection between
> genetic evolution and local-population behavioral traits is essentially a
> no-man's land, to this day.
The fact that there are race specific diseases point out the fact that
there are very real differences, whether they are understood fully or
not.
>
> Two key biologic differences in human genetic evolution that separate us
> from most mammals are mutation neutrality (most mutations, traceable
> genetically, have no effect) and genetic polymorphism. And the key social
> differences -- nurturing influences, cross-population exposure, and socially
> influenced selection, which changes over time -- make it extremely difficult
> to sort out regional, or racial evolutions.
I never said all the factors were easy to sort out, nor did I ever make
any claim that any particular race was somehow superior to another as
some of the "equality true believers" here have falsely claimed.
Different population groups (not even specific to race) have evolved and
adapted differently based on the local conditions.
>
> Again, I'm not arguing the point, only pointing out that if you apply basic
> evolutionary theory to regional or racial human populations, you're going to
> get a lot of surprises and frustrations in trying to apply basic theory to
> human behavior. The broad regression analysis that Murray applied in _The
> Bell Curve_ just doesn't work out at all, except as statistical curiosities.
My point was and still is the there *are* differences, PC or not, and
recognizing this fact is an important part of finding a solution to the
conflicts between the different population groups.
Ed Huntress
>
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>
>> Pete, I'm afraid you're mistaken about the scientific evidence. In fact,
>> you're in very deep water that is the subject of a great deal of study,
>> with
>> several interesting findings occurring since the human genome has been
>> mapped.
>
> I'm afraid I'm not buying a lot of that so called evidence, much of it
> falls in the same junk class as the few pseudo-scientists who try to
> build a pseudo case for "intelligent design" superstition. Many of the
> studies are corrupted by politically correct self censoring and
> preconceived results.
I don't think so, Pete. You're looking at the wrong scientists.
Humans have a startlingly low variation in genetic makeup between races or
regions, but many times that variation within a regional population or race.
Approximately 10-%15% of variations occur between continental groups;
85%-90% within a continental group:
http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1435.html
This is much lower than the differences between regions for other mammals.
So the evidence of evolutionary differences among humans is quite small, and
it's totally swamped by variations within a population.
>
>>
>> I'm not going to argue the point itself, but humans *have* evolved
>> differently from most other mammals. That's the curiosity about it, and
>> the
>> source of much interest in the subject's study. The curious thing is that
>> there is so little variation in our genetic makeups , across races. And
>> the
>> battles between biological determinism (which you're essentially
>> supporting)
>> and social determinism have yet to be settled. Drawing a connection
>> between
>> genetic evolution and local-population behavioral traits is essentially a
>> no-man's land, to this day.
>
> The fact that there are race specific diseases point out the fact that
> there are very real differences, whether they are understood fully or
> not.
Disease susceptibility appears to be the strongest genetic difference. This
probably IS evolutionary. The curiosity is that it doesn't extend to
differences studied in race psychology or social psychology.
If you want references, I can give you dozens -- or you can look them up on
Google Scholar or PubMed. You'll find vast numbers of studies that measure
variations in racial susceptibilities to diseases but few that show much
difference on other factors.
>
>>
>> Two key biologic differences in human genetic evolution that separate us
>> from most mammals are mutation neutrality (most mutations, traceable
>> genetically, have no effect) and genetic polymorphism. And the key social
>> differences -- nurturing influences, cross-population exposure, and
>> socially
>> influenced selection, which changes over time -- make it extremely
>> difficult
>> to sort out regional, or racial evolutions.
>
> I never said all the factors were easy to sort out, nor did I ever make
> any claim that any particular race was somehow superior to another as
> some of the "equality true believers" here have falsely claimed.
> Different population groups (not even specific to race) have evolved and
> adapted differently based on the local conditions.
Now you're talking about two different subjects: biological evolution, and
social adaptation. Social adaptation, or social psychology, is not physical
evolution. It's a social, or a cultural phenomenon.
>
>>
>> Again, I'm not arguing the point, only pointing out that if you apply
>> basic
>> evolutionary theory to regional or racial human populations, you're going
>> to
>> get a lot of surprises and frustrations in trying to apply basic theory
>> to
>> human behavior. The broad regression analysis that Murray applied in _The
>> Bell Curve_ just doesn't work out at all, except as statistical
>> curiosities.
>
> My point was and still is the there *are* differences, PC or not, and
> recognizing this fact is an important part of finding a solution to the
> conflicts between the different population groups.
I'd conclude from the evidence that the differences in social or cultural
habituation and nurture are the things you're looking at, not at biological
evolution.
For some decades now, and especially since DNA has been mapped so
effectively, the *low* rates of genetic variation among races have been the
surprise, much of which has overturned older theories of biological
evolution between races. Again, the most measurable differences are in
susceptibilities to disease, and there are plenty of studies that show that
people taken out of their native environment and placed in another tend to
behave most like others in the environment in which they grew up.
I recognize the general idea that you're working from but I think you'll
find that it's become something that was expected by science, but which
hasn't been much supported since we've had better methods to measure it.
--
Ed Huntress
Gunner Asch
>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Mon, 17 May 2010 13:48:19 -0700, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.now>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>(Note that they haven't tried real hard at decent education for all,
>>>religious freedom, women's rights, or even freedom of speech & press.
>>>All that nasty 'Liberal' stuff that folks who call Islamic folk names
>>>look down on.)
>>
>>Blink blink....blink...those are all Conservative desires, hardly
>>Liberal ones.
>
>Take off your blinders. Those are _universal desires_. Religious
>freedom doesn't mean forcing christianity down the throats of school
>children[*]. Women's rights doesn't mean restricting abortion. Freedom
>of speech doesn't include illegal wiretaps on citizens by the government.
>
>[*] Texas School Board, Prayer in School, etc.
So forceing Prayer in school occurs..where?
Which state restricts a womans ability to murder her child?
Illegal wiretaps...like those in Chicago, the heart of the Leftwing
universe?
>
>
>>Liberals HATE freedom of speech and the press, particularly from anyone
>>not a liberal
>
>You are the only person exhibiting hate. Using the term 'liberal' as a
>perjorative is clearly hate speech.
Then when Leftwingers use the term Nazi..its clearly hate speech?
>
>>
>>Liberals HATE religion
>
>No, they hate _forced religion_. 99% of liberals go to church every
>sunday, but they don't force their neighbor to go to church, nor do they
>even care whether or not their neighbor goes to church. They do care
>if some stupid mofo tries to force them into their brand of
>religion (whether it be Islam, Christianity, Judism, Buddist, Shinto
>or Mithras).
Odd...which governmental body, school etc etc Forces religion on anyone,
in the United States?
Be specific. Use as much white space as necessary.
Pity about you Leftwingers. Your blinders are tightly fastened ACROSS
your eyes and you can only spew what comes in via your headphones from
DNC headquarters.
But then...Useful Idiots do make up a significant part of the Democrat
voters.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>>
>> Put all the pretty weasel words on it that you want. it is still racism.
>
>Nope, it's realism.
>
>Your "faith" believing that all humans are alike despite the total lack
>of supporting scientific evidence and large volumes of scientific
>evidence against that belief is just like the religious loons "faith"
>believing their mythology despite the lack of any supporting scientific
>evidence and large volumes of scientific evidence against it.
On the other hand..atheism is just another faith based religious belief.
Gunner
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>On 05/22/2010 06:48 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 May 2010 13:48:19 -0700, Tim Wescott<t...@seemywebsite.now>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> (Note that they haven't tried real hard at decent education for all,
>>> religious freedom, women's rights, or even freedom of speech& press.
>>> All that nasty 'Liberal' stuff that folks who call Islamic folk names
>>> look down on.)
>>
>> Blink blink....blink...those are all Conservative desires, hardly
>> Liberal ones.
>>
>> Todays schools are run by Liberals..and are turning out kids who cant
>> read their diplomas.
>>
>> Liberals HATE freedom of speech and the press, particularly from anyone
>> not a liberal
>>
>> Liberals HATE religion
>>
>> Conservatives believe in Womens Rights, as do Liberals..but Liberals
>> qualify that the women in question MUST believe in Women believing in
>> the same shit Liberals believe in
>>
>> Tim...I cant believe you actually posted that paragraph of buffoonery.
>
>You're so cute when you lie.
No..actually I didnt believe you did post it. I thought you had more
brains than those of a Useful Idiot.
Pete C.
Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> On Sun, 23 May 2010 13:23:54 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net>
> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Put all the pretty weasel words on it that you want. it is still racism.
> >
> >Nope, it's realism.
> >
> >Your "faith" believing that all humans are alike despite the total lack
> >of supporting scientific evidence and large volumes of scientific
> >evidence against that belief is just like the religious loons "faith"
> >believing their mythology despite the lack of any supporting scientific
> >evidence and large volumes of scientific evidence against it.
>
> On the other hand..atheism is just another faith based religious belief.
>
> Gunner
Hardly. Atheism is based on what is scientifically provable, and not
superstitions beliefs.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
So prove there is no "god".
Feel free to use as much whitespace as necessary.
We will all be awaiting your work.
Pete C.
Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> On Mon, 24 May 2010 09:25:37 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Gunner Asch wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, 23 May 2010 13:23:54 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Put all the pretty weasel words on it that you want. it is still racism.
> >> >
> >> >Nope, it's realism.
> >> >
> >> >Your "faith" believing that all humans are alike despite the total lack
> >> >of supporting scientific evidence and large volumes of scientific
> >> >evidence against that belief is just like the religious loons "faith"
> >> >believing their mythology despite the lack of any supporting scientific
> >> >evidence and large volumes of scientific evidence against it.
> >>
> >> On the other hand..atheism is just another faith based religious belief.
> >>
> >> Gunner
> >
> >Hardly. Atheism is based on what is scientifically provable, and not
> >superstitions beliefs.
>
> So prove there is no "god".
>
> Feel free to use as much whitespace as necessary.
>
> We will all be awaiting your work.
Prove there is a "god". Your ilk have had thousands of years to do so
and have failed to find one shred of supporting evidence for your
superstitions.
Ed Huntress
"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:41jlv55f8lkgtcdvb...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 May 2010 09:25:37 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, 23 May 2010 13:23:54 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Put all the pretty weasel words on it that you want. it is still
>>> >> racism.
>>> >
>>> >Nope, it's realism.
>>> >
>>> >Your "faith" believing that all humans are alike despite the total lack
>>> >of supporting scientific evidence and large volumes of scientific
>>> >evidence against that belief is just like the religious loons "faith"
>>> >believing their mythology despite the lack of any supporting scientific
>>> >evidence and large volumes of scientific evidence against it.
>>>
>>> On the other hand..atheism is just another faith based religious belief.
>>>
>>> Gunner
>>
>>Hardly. Atheism is based on what is scientifically provable, and not
>>superstitions beliefs.
>
> So prove there is no "god".
>
> Feel free to use as much whitespace as necessary.
>
> We will all be awaiting your work.
>
> Gunner
That's not atheism you're talking about, Gunner. That's anti-theism. Most
atheists today follow a basic tenet of science: if they aren't convinced of
the evidence to believe in God, they don't think there's a reason to
believe. Anti-theists, in contrast, believe in arguments against God's
existence.
Many people, like you, apparently, confuse atheism with agnosticism. The
original meaning of agnosticism is that the answer is not knowable. Most
people who call themselves agnostics don't claim that the answer is knowable
or not -- they just don't know it themselves. If they don't believe, they're
atheists.
--
Ed Huntress
Eregon
You exist therefore since you exist (1) on a planet (2) that is in orbit
around a star (3) that orbits the center of a galaxy (4) that is part of
a universe (5) that was created ~4.5 billion years ago then the Creator
of that universe/galaxy/star/planet/life exists.
Whether or not you wish to "worship" or even acknowledge that Creator is
your problem.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Sorry Pete, Ive never claimed that there is, or is not a god.
But you have proclaimed before all, that there is no god.
So get down to proving your claim like a good little boy and quit trying
the usual buffoonery and diversons.
As I said...we will all be waiting with amused interest.
dan
sci.engr.joining.welding mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
>>>> A 4.5 hour wind storm gets you an hour of welding per
>>>> turbine (at midnight, too.)
>>>>
>>>> --Winston
>>>>
>>>
>>>4.5 mph wind is pretty light, don't you think?
>>>
>>>Somehow I was under the impression that you'd need a minimum of 15 mph
>>>to get much in the way of electricity...
>>
>>
>> A wind storm that lasts for 4.5 hours. Not 4.5 mph.
>
>How strong?
Damned if I know. Ask the OP.
Stuart Wheaton
Why don't you favor us with a few specifics here. Which group of people
have evolved so that some non-morphological traits have become prominent.
I contend that in ANY group of a significant number of individuals, you
will find geniuses, dunces, athletes, warriors, scholars, patriots,
traitors, prophets, apostates, devout and secular, and all shades in
between.
Winston
The OP was Iggy marveling over the appearance of a youth who
exhibited troubling levels of "git 'er done".
(All kidding aside, we could use many more people like that.)
This chart shows a unit claimed to produce 600 W in a
25 MPH breeze:
http://www.wind-works.org/articles/bwc850pc.html
Obviously, one would need to provide much more than that
in order to see 600 W out of an attached inverter but
this is an example of the performance data one would need
as part of the evaluation process.
These fine folks can get you started:
http://homepower.com/basics/wind/
http://homepower.com/view/?file=HP119_pg34_Sagrillo
http://homepower.com/article/?file=HP124_pg98_Woofenden
--Winston
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>
>Why don't you favor us with a few specifics here. Which group of people
>have evolved so that some non-morphological traits have become prominent.
>
>I contend that in ANY group of a significant number of individuals, you
>will find geniuses, dunces, athletes, warriors, scholars, patriots,
>traitors, prophets, apostates, devout and secular, and all shades in
>between.
Looks like Stuart is afraid to admit that various races have
differences.
I wonder why?
dan
sci.engr.joining.welding mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
>> Damned if I know. Ask the OP.
>
>The OP was Iggy marveling over the appearance of a youth who
>exhibited troubling levels of "git 'er done".
you're right, not the OP, it was winston, that referred to a 4.5 hour
wind storm.
<start>
IRC, wind turbines yield higher bang for the buck
as do photovoltaics, on average.
Here y'go, $1.25 per peak watt:
http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?products_id=760
A 4.5 hour wind storm gets you an hour of welding per
turbine (at midnight, too.)
--Winston
<end>
Of course it depends largely on how fast that 4.5 hour wind is.
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Nevertheless, they'd better stay off my lawn!
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Bumper Sticker: Honk if you wish to meet Jesus.
Winston
From: http://homepower.com/basics/wind/
"Jim Green at the National Renewable Energy Lab (NREL) developed a
similar formula:
annual energy output (AEO) in KWH =
0.01328 x rotor diameter (ft.) squared x average wind speed (mph) cubed."
Check my arithmetic, willya?
For a 6' diameter wind charger in a 25 MPH average wind,
we are looking at about 7470 KWH annually which
equates to about 8.5 hours of welder run time
per day.
That is a *lot* of wire.
--Winston
Glenn Lyford
> we are looking at about 7470 KWH annually which
> equates to about 8.5 hours of welder run time
> per day.
>
> That is a *lot* of wire.
That's a lot of wind. Where I am, I bet I'm lucky if my sustained
yearly average is 5mph, and there may be many weeks when it's less.
Storms and gusts are one thing, but even then, it's really hard to
capture all the energy without simply breaking stuff.
--Glenn Lyford
Winston
Step zero in any solar / wind installation is a site assessment.
Clearly if the resource isn't there to exploit, the installation
would be a waste of time and money.
On the other foot, if the site assessment surprises in a good
way, a wind charger could be defensible as a hobby if nothing else.
Given the high correlation of wind storms to power outages, I
think it would be grand to have my fridge and computer automatically
switch to wind energy during black outs.
--Winston
Eregon
@news1.newsguy.com:
> For a 6' diameter wind charger in a 25 MPH average wind,
> we are looking at about 7470 KWH annually which
> equates to about 8.5 hours of welder run time
> per day.
Lessee - 7470000/(24*365) = 852.7 watts/hour = 7.1 amps @120V.
You must have a very lightweight buzzbox if it'll run on that...
Of course you must remember that "annually" is based on the presumption
that the wind never varies, much less quits...
wmbjk...@citlink.net
I've had a 10' turbine as part of a home-power setup for over a
decade. The turbine's production averages ~4kWh per day, which is more
than I consume welding. The machine I use most is a Lincoln Power Mig
255. Others include a 185A inverter stick/TIG, and a 40A plasma
cutter. It's possible that I have less sweat equity invested in being
equipped for off-grid welding than some others have wasted explaining
how difficult it is.
Wayne
Ignoramus5816
> I've had a 10' turbine as part of a home-power setup for over a
> decade. The turbine's production averages ~4kWh per day, which is more
> than I consume welding. The machine I use most is a Lincoln Power Mig
> 255. Others include a 185A inverter stick/TIG, and a 40A plasma
> cutter. It's possible that I have less sweat equity invested in being
> equipped for off-grid welding than some others have wasted explaining
> how difficult it is.
Wayne, maybe you can help me clarify economics of this a little bit.
How much did your turbine cost you? (or, rather, how much would a
comparable turbine cost if purchased at retail prices).
4 kWh per day amounts to the value of approximately 40 cents per day,
at the prices of utility power, or $150 per year, give or take. So,
for someone who lives on-grid, The benefit of having a turbine of this
size are quite minimal. As you live off-grid, you have a completely
different tradeoff and 4 kWh per day may cover your own needs nicely.
Am I missing anything?
i
Winston
My car alternator can convert mechanical power to 840 W
of electrical power, but no more than that.
Four times a day, I jump in and turn the key.
It starts every time even though the starter pulls 1045 W.
The alternator isn't even turned on while I'm starting the
car, so the power to drive the starter motor comes from...
where exactly? :)
--Winston <-- Free Energy! Get the Nobel people on the phone!
Winston
(...)
> It's possible that I have less sweat equity invested in being
> equipped for off-grid welding than some others have wasted explaining
> how difficult it is.
>
> Wayne
Thanks Wayne. Your observation made me laugh out loud.
:)
--Winston
wmbjk...@citlink.net
Our normal consumption varies between about 10 and 15kWh per day.
Production can be as much as double that when there's good wind and
sun. Most days the production is being throttled by lunchtime or so,
and the excess is wasted. The 4kWh I mentioned is only the average
wind portion.
Off-grid property tends to cost substantially less than that already
equipped with power lines. The larger the percentage of your home's
value is land cost, the more room for spending on powering a
comparable off-grid parcel. Bottom line in my case - I sold my on-grid
place, used part of the money to buy a square mile off-grid and build
a custom home on it, and invested the rest. In the 15 years I've lived
here I've saved ~$50k on property taxes alone over my last place. That
money was also invested. Compared to the savings on the land and all
the earnings its purchase made possible, the $25k I spent on the power
setup is peanuts. I don't count the sweat equity since I consider it
easier and far more pleasant than holding a job. I also had the
advantage of being able to choose a mild climate. Those of you who
spend thousands per year on space heating might not be able to imagine
spending zero on that and investing the savings. That income isn't
directly attributable to home power, but it's the tech that makes the
whole concept possible.
As for grid-connected alternative power, long term it can pay in high
utility-rate areas, especially if there are rebates etc. Regardless,
the minimum for a decent home-workshop welding/emergency power might
be a battery bank of say, 8 L16s (~$2500) and a 4kW (8kW surge)
inverter (also ~$2500). Add some extra for charge control and misc.
plus transformer if required. Charge the batteries with grid power,
solar (~$2 per watt), or wind, which is about $2500 for a 1kW turbine
plus whatever tower it needs.
I'm not sure how one should value grid-connected alternative power if
it's mostly being done for backup. Probably the same as a new sofa,
eating out, taking a cruise, or buying new underwear. All things that
nobody ever questions whether or not they "pay". :-)
Wayne
Eregon
news:htjrk...@news7.newsguy.com:
One of those near-useless and hideously poluting anachronisms called a
lead-ACID battery. 3 of these will power a ReadyWelder for about 30
miutes of HD welding.
Try undoing your spark coil (presuming that your car is a gasser) and
see just how long that engine will continue to "crank".
Hint: it won't be very long.
If all you want to do is to run from batteries then get yourself a bank
of 20, 30, or 40 deep-cycle batteries with a serious charge controller
similar to the one(s) in an industrial-grade mainframe computer UPS
installation.
20 batteries in series will, on average, give you around 55 amp-hours at
220V DC.
Just think: for only around $100k you can save on your light bill.
That dinky windmill will provide almost enough power to bring the
battery bank back up to a full charge in a couple of months after a full
day of HD stick welding.
BTW, have you considered getting a full-sized pickup, filling the bed
with batteries, and mounting your windmill so that it's blade tips don't
exceed 12'9"? That way you could be recharging the batteries as you
commute - unless your trip is mainly stop-and-creep - at normal highway
speed. (Hopefrully, your windmill can handle 70+MPH wind speeds!)
RAM�
news:htjrk...@news7.newsguy.com:
You're overlooking the 3300+ Watts of the "110A@30V" welder running 8
hrs/day.
1 day's welding would require 26.4 KWH minimum which would be hopelessly
beyond the capability of the charging unit to replace. In fact, you'd be
limited to about 1 day of welding/month even if the charging unit was
totally dedicated to this purpose.
Of course, you COULD put in your own "wind farm" of 30+ wind chargers.
<G>
Winston
(...)
> One of those near-useless and hideously poluting anachronisms called a
> lead-ACID battery. 3 of these will power a ReadyWelder for about 30
> miutes of HD welding.
So I can save up power from photovoltaics, wind chargers, biogas
turbines, fuel cells and plasma garbage converters to power my house?
The future is looking brighter already.
:)
--Winston
Winston
(...)
> You're overlooking the 3300+ Watts of the "110A@30V" welder running 8
> hrs/day.
8 hours of bead is a *lot* of bead. Does our weldor spend any time
jigging or are we running an entire welding shop off of
alternative energy?
The professional shop I visit has four guys working.
Occasionally you will hear actual welding but mostly its moving
material around, laying out, jigging, cutting and some grinding.
I agree a welding shop would pose a bigger load to alternative
energy than would just residential 'hobby' use.
> Of course, you COULD put in your own "wind farm" of 30+ wind chargers.
> <G>
Relying on just one energy source is foolish. We don't even do that now.
Even current homes use multiple sources: passive solar, electricity,
natural gas. Some use heating oil, some use wood in various forms.
We need to be smarter about energy because we can use petrodollars
for much better things here at home and we can use oil for much better
things than just electricity generation.
--Winston
Stuart Wheaton
> Pete C. wrote:
>> I never said all the factors were easy to sort out, nor did I ever make
>> any claim that any particular race was somehow superior to another as
>> some of the "equality true believers" here have falsely claimed.
>> Different population groups (not even specific to race) have evolved and
>> adapted differently based on the local conditions.
>
> Why don't you favor us with a few specifics here. Which group of people
> have evolved so that some non-morphological traits have become prominent.
>
> I contend that in ANY group of a significant number of individuals, you
> will find geniuses, dunces, athletes, warriors, scholars, patriots,
> traitors, prophets, apostates, devout and secular, and all shades in
> between.
>
>
Hey Pete, I'm hearing Crickets here....
Surely you have a few non-racist examples...
C'mon, I'm just dying to hear about this.
Remember, THIS is what we are talking about:
You wrote....
What we need to *do* about it, is to get over the idea, entirely
unsupported by science and the evolution of every other mammal on the
planet, that humans are all alike and all have the same capacity for
civilization, rational thought and non violence.
Eregon
news:htk4u...@news1.newsguy.com:
> So I can save up power from photovoltaics, wind chargers, biogas
> turbines, fuel cells and plasma garbage converters to power my house?
You surely can - it'll only cost you a couple of hundred thou for enough
batteries to do the job and another couple of hundred thou to replace
them in about 5 years.
That expense, added to the cost of maintenance & operation of your
"greenie specials" should give you an annual operational cost of around
$100K/year.
You'd be a lot better off, financially, to have a dugout by a fast-
flowing clear stream where you could use a water wheel to both drive your
automotive alternator to supply 12V battery charging for LED lighting &
ReadyWelder use and to supply shaft power for machinery.
Hopefully, the stream will be cold enough to handle your refrigeration
requirements, sufficiently stocked with fish to stave off starvation, and
have a large, flat rock on the shoreline so that you can do laundry.
wmbjk...@citlink.net
>Winston <Win...@bigbrother.net> wrote in
>news:htk4u...@news1.newsguy.com:
>
>> So I can save up power from photovoltaics, wind chargers, biogas
>> turbines, fuel cells and plasma garbage converters to power my house?
>
>You surely can - it'll only cost you a couple of hundred thou for enough
>batteries to do the job and another couple of hundred thou to replace
>them in about 5 years.
>
>That expense, added to the cost of maintenance & operation of your
>"greenie specials" should give you an annual operational cost of around
>$100K/year.
Those numbers are idiotic, so you clearly don't know what you're
talking about.
I've been welding off-grid for 15 years, and only spent a tiny
fraction of what you claimed it would cost. Neither have I spent quite
as much <snorf> on maintenance as you predicted. Perhaps $40 for
backup generator V belts, plus as much again for turbine rotor and
furling bearings. A couple hundred maybe on replacement tracker
controllers and shipping. Plus a tube of grease, although I still have
some of that left over so I could put it on Ebay and recoup some funds
I suppose. Still on my original batteries, although I have purchased a
fair quantity of distilled water, and we all know how expensive water
is, right? Still, substantially less than your mythical $1.5 million.
Geez. Of course, I did all the maintenance myself and haven't kept
track of my time. Let's call it 100 hours to be safe. That would mean
that if we used your bizarre estimate, then my time is worth $15,000
per hour. Who knew?
Wayne
dca...@krl.org
> You'd be a lot better off, financially, to have a dugout by a fast-
> flowing clear stream where you could use a water wheel to both drive your
> automotive alternator to supply 12V battery charging for LED lighting &
> ReadyWelder use and to supply shaft power for machinery.
>
Better would be to use a water turbine. Significantly more efficient
than a water wheel and not difficult to build. A small turbine would
supply about eight kilowatts all the time eliminating the requirement
for batteries and using LED's for lights.
Dan
Eregon
news:47d1a5a5-3e96-44e4...@e6g2000vbm.googlegroups.com:
Yahbut would the turbine provide good old-fashioned shaft power to his
shop? :)
He wouldn't want to waste resources on electric motors if he's a true
card-carrying EcoFreak.
dca...@krl.org
>
> Yahbut would the turbine provide good old-fashioned shaft power to his
> shop? :)
>
> He wouldn't want to waste resources on electric motors if he's a true
> card-carrying EcoFreak.
I was at a machine shop today that was originally powered by a steam
engine, but converted to water turbine shaft power.
Dan