Strange Screws
gyps...@yahoo.com
80GB external hard drive. Its case uses these special screws. I shot a
picture of a screw here:
http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/Tool/Screwdriver_for_5-Point_Star_Screw.files.hidden/5-point%20star.jpg
Does anyone know where I can find a screwdriver for these screws?
Thanks.
Chieh
--
Hacking Digital Cameras -
http://www.camerahacker.com/books/Hacking_Digital_Cameras/
RP
gyps...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm looking for a 5-point star shaped screwdriver. I bought a Seagate
> 80GB external hard drive. Its case uses these special screws. I shot a
> picture of a screw here:
> http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/Tool/Screwdriver_for_5-Point_Star_Screw.files.hidden/5-point%20star.jpg
>
> Does anyone know where I can find a screwdriver for these screws?
> Thanks.
At any decent hardware or home supply store. It's called a Torx screw.
Typically an allen wrench will work just fine in the absence of a Torx
screw driver.
hvacrmedic
Tony Hwang
Hi,
Also tight fitting blade screw driver will do it too.
Tony
RP
As long as you don't care to ruin the tip. But I've used a flat blade on
many an occasion :)
hvacrmedic
buffalobill
RP
buffalobill wrote:
> "TORX PLUS" [NOT TORX]
>
> http://www.wihatools.com/716_IPR_serie.htm
I should've looked!
In that case a dremel tool might be in order. A good stout drill bit and
a rethreader afterward :)
hvacrmedic
David C. Partridge
outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die.
Or are you talking about the drive mounting screws?
Dave
<gyps...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137394804.0...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Odie Ferrous
>
> Hmmmm why do you want to open the case of the drive? If you open it
> outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die.
>
> Or are you talking about the drive mounting screws?
Don't overestimate clean rooms - they contain 100 particles per cubic
meter as opposed to an "average" room containing 600 particles. A
"clean" "average" room will contain far less than the 600 particles.
For what it's worth, I've had a drive running non-stop for over a week
without its cover (platters exposed) and haven't had any hiccups. This
hype about "clean rooms" is a load of drivel.
There are those who will say "if you get one single particle of dust on
your platters, your drive will be irretrievably damaged."
Bollox. And bollox to FR, who will no doubt disagree.
Odie
--
Retrodata
www.retrodata.co.uk
Globally Local Data Recovery Experts
Stormin Mormon
five. Of course, it is designed to be a bastard conifguration, and you can't
get the driver for it.
As the other fellow suggested, try slotted jewlers screw drivers, sometimes
you can get one to wedge in just right.
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:%MHyf.238969$2k.125392@pd7tw1no...
Handi
that he isn't aware that he should never open a hard drive.
Torx screws are seldom used for no other purpose then to keep the prying
eyes of consumers from sensitive stuff. Thats why they're used in
elevators.
My son has actually opened a defective laptop hard drive before and
amazingly it still functioned, for only a short time. Now its a
paperweight.
Handi
Doug Miller
Bzzzt! Thanks for playing. That's _not_ a Torx screw. Torx screws are
six-pointed, not five-pointed as described and shown.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Doug Miller
> I'd dare to guess that if this fellow doesn't recognize a Torx screw
>that he isn't aware that he should never open a hard drive.
I guess you can't recognize one either. :-) What he has is not a Torx screw.
Jim Elbrecht
>I'm looking for a 5-point star shaped screwdriver. I bought a Seagate
>80GB external hard drive. Its case uses these special screws. I shot a
>picture of a screw here:
>http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/Tool/Screwdriver_for_5-Point_Star_Screw.files.hidden/5-point%20star.jpg
>
>Does anyone know where I can find a screwdriver for these screws?
>Thanks.
I'm not sure now if it was Radio Shack or Sears-- but I bought a <$20
set that has about a dozen tips for jeweler's sized unusual screw
heads. There are a couple Torx Plus tips in there & I've taken apart
a bunch of hard drives with them. [I've been taking them apart to
play with the magnets--- not as strong as I expected in the newer
drives]
Curiosity got the best of me-- this isn't my set, but Sears has this
18pc set for $20;
Sears item #00941709000 Mfr. model #63518
[no torx plus but a T6, T7, T8, & T9 size Torx]
Ah -- Here it is- Radio Shack, $15
Model: 64-2973
Catalog #: 64-2973
Kronus 20-Piece Electronics Bit-Driver Set
1 x Ergonomic Anti-Static Handle
4 x Slotted Bits (2, 2.5, 3, and 4mm)
2 x Phillips Bits (#00, and #0)
5 x Torx Bits (T-6, T-7, T-8, T-9, and T-10)
3 x Hex Bits (1.5, 2, and 2.5mm)
2 x POZI Bits (#00, and #0)
3 x Hex Round Ball Bits (1.5, 2, 2,5mm)
1 x Plastic Carrying Case
Especially for such an inexpensive set is is pretty well built except
for the cheap plastic case.
Jim
David C. Partridge
Sure a drive will function for a while with the case off, but it will die
soonish (maybe a few days or weeks, but it will die).
If OTOH all you are doing is extracting the magnets from old drives - then
go right on ..
Dave
"Odie Ferrous" <odie_f...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43CB68CF...@hotmail.com...
DT
>Don't overestimate clean rooms - they contain 100 particles per cubic
>meter as opposed to an "average" room containing 600 particles. A
>"clean" "average" room will contain far less than the 600 particles.
Well, having managed a real clean room , you are way off base. First of all,
the particle count is per cubic foot. Clean rooms are classified by
the sustained particle count averaged around the entire room.
The average count in a typical home/office/light industrial room is about
500,000 particles per cubic foot, and the particlas are quite large (several
microns or tens of microns).
The first level of clean room we define is a class 100,000. This isn't a real
hard level to achieve and can sometimes be done without real expensive HEPA
filters if the working conditions are clean enough. The Space Shuttle high bay
room is maintained at class 100,000 (my experience is with NASA).
The next level is a class 10,000, which certainly requires a high level of
filtering and monitering with special clothing for the occupants. Next comes a
class 1000 which is getting serious. You are into laminar flow air systems and
special training for the people.
Computer chips are assembled in class 100 or even class 10 (!) rooms, since a
single particle can ruin a product. At this level, even the way you move can
disturb the room's particle count. Everyone is trained to move slowly and be
aware of where the downwash from the airflow over your body goes.
By this level, the particle size is usually measured at a much smaller,
sub-micron level also. A single small tear in a HEPA filter can take the room
out of spec for quite some time, requiring a long, slow damp swabbing of all
surfaces.
Dennis
Rob B
> >
> > Hmmmm why do you want to open the case of the drive? If you open it
> > outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die.
> >
> > Or are you talking about the drive mounting screws?
>
> Perhaps the drive already *is* dead.
>
> Don't overestimate clean rooms - they contain 100 particles per cubic
> meter as opposed to an "average" room containing 600 particles. A
> "clean" "average" room will contain far less than the 600 particles.
>
you could contruct a clean box to stifle the clean room naybobs
somewhere, (i am looking for link in my encyclopedic favorites), on web
there was a design plan for clean room box involving a sturdy cardboard box
, spray contact cement, largish HEPA filter, shop vac, heavy ~ 5mil clear
plastic, duct tape then some spray either anti-static or water mist ? can't
remeber
well most could probably figure out how this stuff was used the only trick
was purging of contaminates when it was exposed when opening the box
Dan Espen
> I'm looking for a 5-point star shaped screwdriver. I bought a Seagate
> 80GB external hard drive. Its case uses these special screws. I shot a
> picture of a screw here:
> http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/Tool/Screwdriver_for_5-Point_Star_Screw.files.hidden/5-point%20star.jpg
>
> Does anyone know where I can find a screwdriver for these screws?
> Thanks.
In my opinion, someone should be arrested for using these things.
Do a google search for 'star screwdriver computer'.
You'll get lots of hits.
Jim Yanik
news:ehMyf.73852$XJ5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
> The Torx drivers sold in hardware have six points, and this
> monstrosity has five. Of course, it is designed to be a bastard
> conifguration, and you can't get the driver for it.
>
> As the other fellow suggested, try slotted jewlers screw drivers,
> sometimes you can get one to wedge in just right.
>
Or you could grind down an Allen wrench to have 5 sides.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
Jim Yanik
i...@centurytel.net:
>
>
> buffalobill wrote:
>> "TORX PLUS" [NOT TORX]
If the screw only has FIVE sides instead of SIX like a Torx,then maybe it
should be Torx-MINUS. 8-)
(warning;humor attempt)
John McGaw
Well, the other posters who called it a Torx were almost on the mark.
What you have there is a Torx Plus which is marketed as a tamper
resistant screw and this time Textron has put some actual controls upon
the distribution of the tools needed to work properly with them. Guess
they learned that everyone and their brother was selling the regular
six-pointed Torx tools thus depriving them of any security benefits.
Same thing with the Tamper Torx which was identical but which had a pin
in the center of the star but which, once the pin was snapped off or the
tool had a hole drilled in the tip, was easily removed.
If you want to buy Torx Plus tools you must, in theory anyway, be a
legitimate user as defined by Textron although if you know anyone who
works with them they should be pretty easily obtained at the cost of a
case of beer. ;-)
http://www.textronfasteningsystems.com/products/torxplus/index.html
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com
Tony Hwang
Many will make one good drive from two bad ones. Some fails in
electronics part some fails in mechanical part.
Tony
stic...@gmail.com
David C. Partridge wrote:
> Hmmmm why do you want to open the case of the drive? If you open it
> outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die.
No matter what you do with it, the drive WILL die. It's the
unfortunate, but inevitable destiny that we all share.
I've opened hard drives again and again in very filthy rooms and
they've never shown any ill effects over the days, or in some cases
weeks, that I operated them. I do this all the time with old drives
because I can see what's happening inside the drive while I test my
control circuitry.
If I was manufacturing hundreds of thousands of drives and had to worry
about warranties and customer satisfaction, I'd be doing it in a clean
room. And I would buy a new drive before attempting to repair a damaged
one. But you definitely can operate a hard drive without the cover for
a while; probably long enough to do whatever you want if you don't
dawdle.
jim menning
"buffalobill" <wjoh...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:1137399286.9...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Getting closer! Many in the Torx Plus line still are six-pointed drivers. The
5-pointed ones are known as "Torx-Plus TR" (Tamper resistant).
Identification chart:
http://www.lara.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?cart_id=5614708.20716&keywords=bt-ip
Torx-Plus TR sizes:
http://www.lara.com/torx-plus-tr.htm
jim menning
mc
>
> At any decent hardware or home supply store. It's called a Torx screw.
> Typically an allen wrench will work just fine in the absence of a Torx
> screw driver.
Don't those have 6 points?
James Sweet
> Hmmmm why do you want to open the case of the drive? If you open it
> outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die.
>
> Or are you talking about the drive mounting screws?
>
>
From the picture, it's the screws that hold together the external case.
Probably wants to upgrade the drive or put it in a different case.
wrench
> of consumers from sensitive stuff. Thats why they're used in elevators.
Not an accurate statement.
Torx drive screws have been used on vehicles for ten years plus. They are not
(in their standard form) an anti tamper fastener.
wrench
[I've been taking them apart to play with the magnets--- not as strong as I
expected in the newer drives]
magnets? in a hard drive?
CJT
Yes. Strong ones.
--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
Arno Wagner
Definitely correct. For anti-tamper there is Torx with a pin
in the middle that needs a Torx driver with a hole. Standard
Torx is just very well suited for automated mounting and also
very well suited to use with a Torx bit in an electric drill.
Here you get a lot of "Spax" wood screws with Torx head.
Torx is optimised for maximum torque without damaging the
tool or screw and easier insertion than the standard 6-way
symmetric format. IMO ist qualifies as possibly the best
all around screw head format.
Arno
Folkert Rienstra
> In article <MtMyf.156727$Ph4.4...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Handi" <hand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I'd dare to guess that if this fellow doesn't recognize a Torx screw
> > that he isn't aware that he should never open a hard drive.
>
> I guess you can't recognize one either. :-)
The same to you.
> What he has is not a Torx screw.
Yes it is, as someone else showed from the Wiha page.
Arno Wagner
Yes, a pair of very strong ones in the moving-coil assembly that
forms the head actuator motor.
Arno
J. Clarke
> I'm looking for a 5-point star shaped screwdriver. I bought a Seagate
> 80GB external hard drive. Its case uses these special screws. I shot a
> picture of a screw here:
>
http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/Tool/Screwdriver_for_5-Point_Star_Screw.files.hidden/5-point%20star.jpg
>
> Does anyone know where I can find a screwdriver for these screws?
No guarantee that it's the right size, (OD approx .057 in, about the same as
a T5 Torx) but search ebay for "5 pointed star screwdriver". Don't have a
recent Seagate drive on hand to try it on or I'd let you know if it fits.
You'll get a dozen or so hits from a guy named elvis fong who sells them
for Sony and Sharp PDAs. Price is about a buck plus 5 bucks or so shipping
from Hong Kong so call it 6 bucks or so total.
I ordered one a while back and he got it right out--seems to be a reliable
vendor.
Let him know that you're looking for a driver specifically for Seagate
drives and he might find one for you.
> Thanks.
>
> Chieh
> --
> Hacking Digital Cameras -
> http://www.camerahacker.com/books/Hacking_Digital_Cameras/
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Folkert Rienstra
Whoa.
Someone actually *READ* the original post and looked at the linked picture.
Peter
mm
wrote:
> I'd dare to guess that if this fellow doesn't recognize a Torx screw
>that he isn't aware that he should never open a hard drive.
>
> Torx screws are seldom used for no other purpose then to keep the prying
>eyes of consumers from sensitive stuff.
Too many maybes and negatives in this sentence for me to understand
it.
> Thats why they're used in
>elevators.
They're also used in my car just to hold the trunk struts on. Nothing
secret about that.
Don't get me started on what I used to do to elevators..
> My son has actually opened a defective laptop hard drive before and
>amazingly it still functioned, for only a short time. Now its a
>paperweight.
>
>Handi
>
Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.
mm
<stic...@gmail.com> wrote:
....
>I've opened hard drives again and again in very filthy rooms and
>they've never shown any ill effects over the days, or in some cases
>weeks, that I operated them. I do this all the time with old drives
>because I can see what's happening inside the drive while I test my
>control circuitry.
>
>If I was manufacturing hundreds of thousands of drives and had to worry
>about warranties and customer satisfaction, I'd be doing it in a clean
>room. And I would buy a new drive before attempting to repair a damaged
>one. But you definitely can operate a hard drive without the cover for
>a while; probably long enough to do whatever you want if you don't
>dawdle.
My drive is clicking, and one important partition has a very bad
directory structure. I'm not sure I can copy over even the good
partitions before it "fails". If I open it, what would I want to do
to stop the clicking, or to keep the clicking syndrome from preventing
me from copying the data to a good drive.
(The bad partition is FAT16 (because I was still running win3.1 and
win98 and wanted both OSes to access the parttiion.)
J. Clarke
Yes, magnets in a hard drive. Part of the actuator.
Impmon
wrote:
>At any decent hardware or home supply store. It's called a Torx screw.
>Typically an allen wrench will work just fine in the absence of a Torx
>screw driver.
Torx is 6 pointed star and won't fit 5 star screw head well. If you
force the torx to work, you're liable to strip the wrench or worse the
screw head.
--
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
Spam block in place, no emil reply is expected at all.
lurk@sbc junk global.net
<gyps...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137394804.0...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I'm looking for a 5-point star shaped screwdriver. I bought a Seagate
> 80GB external hard drive. Its case uses these special screws. I shot a
> picture of a screw here:
> http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/Tool/Screwdriver_for_5-Point_Star_Screw.files.hidden/5-point%20star.jpg
>
> Does anyone know where I can find a screwdriver for these screws?
Stephen
green cheek conures squawk out:
>I'm looking for a 5-point star shaped screwdriver. I bought a Seagate
>80GB external hard drive. Its case uses these special screws. I shot a
>picture of a screw here:
>http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/Tool/Screwdriver_for_5-Point_Star_Screw.files.hidden/5-point%20star.jpg
>
>Does anyone know where I can find a screwdriver for these screws?
>Thanks.
>
>Chieh
http://www.wihatools.com/indexes/indxtorx.htm
Stephen
--
Rob B
"Stephen" <y...@its.invalid> wrote in message
news:v1vns1ljroc6bdvel...@4ax.com...
none of those torx drivers in the link show a 5 pointer ? even the one that
says textron applications ?
mm
>I'm looking for a 5-point star shaped screwdriver. I bought a Seagate
>80GB external hard drive. Its case uses these special screws. I shot a
>picture of a screw here:
>http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/Tool/Screwdriver_for_5-Point_Star_Screw.files.hidden/5-point%20star.jpg
>
>Does anyone know where I can find a screwdriver for these screws?
>Thanks.
The tips that others have recommended were not available to the
public, or at least not at a sufficiently low price, for quite a
while after the screws came out. The same process will happen again
and again.
So.... Buy your self some left-handed drill bits and drill out the
screws. You can do the same with right-handed drill bits, but it
takes a lot more time. With LH, the bit acts as a screwdriver all the
while it is drilling, and the receiving threads are usually good when
you're done.
Replace with other screws.
There is one general tool vendor on the net that has LH screwdrivers,
and the very big hardware store in Dallas (Eliot's, I think) had them
when I was there.
(It's fun to ask for them at big box stores, and even most hardware
stores. They think it's a joke, like left-handed poker chips.
>
>Chieh
Joshua Putnam
y...@its.invalid says...
> http://www.wihatools.com/indexes/indxtorx.htm
Actually, no, they don't list the 5-point security versions, only the
6-point.
Lara Tools sells them on-line, if you qualify.
http://www.lara.com/torx-plus-tr.htm
--
jo...@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>
Rob B
news:eiTyf.441$vU2...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
no there is 5 pointer at bottom of the torx security page , sorry i posted
too soon :}
Odie Ferrous
Take them out, give them to a child to play with, and the child will be
bleeding inside five minutes.
Odie
mc
"Arno Wagner" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:43266tF...@individual.net...
> Torx is optimised for maximum torque without damaging the
> tool or screw and easier insertion than the standard 6-way
> symmetric format. IMO ist qualifies as possibly the best
> all around screw head format.
Yes... you can actually hold the screw with the screwdriver... that is, put
the screw on the end of the screwdriver, then move it into position.
mm
>
>Definitely correct. For anti-tamper there is Torx with a pin
>in the middle that needs a Torx driver with a hole. Standard
>Torx is just very well suited for automated mounting and also
I hadn't thought about that, but I had noticed that it stays on the
tip without magnetism, even when the tip is horizontal.
The tip won't slip out of the slot either, the advantage of Phillips
head. I wonder how long until there are chrome torx screws for
decorative places.
mc
> head. I wonder how long until there are chrome torx screws for
> decorative places.
I don't know. Recall that it took Phillips about 40 years to catch on
(invented in the 1940s, not really dominant until the 1980s if memory serves
me right). Torx should catch on by the middle of the century...
Chris Lewis
> On 16 Jan 2006 18:15:57 GMT, Arno Wagner <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >Definitely correct. For anti-tamper there is Torx with a pin
> >in the middle that needs a Torx driver with a hole. Standard
> >Torx is just very well suited for automated mounting and also
> I hadn't thought about that, but I had noticed that it stays on the
> tip without magnetism, even when the tip is horizontal.
Square drive (eg: Canadian "Robertson") are almost as good. I drove several
hundred 3" deck screws through flooring yesterday - once put on the driver,
they stayed put on the driver and could be started and driven without touching
the screw.
No cam-out either.
I still think they should make the manufacture and sale of slotted and
phillips screws a capital offence.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
Chris Lewis
> My drive is clicking, and one important partition has a very bad
> directory structure. I'm not sure I can copy over even the good
> partitions before it "fails". If I open it, what would I want to do
> to stop the clicking, or to keep the clicking syndrome from preventing
> me from copying the data to a good drive.
The best way to ensure that you can copy over the good partitions
is to _not_ open the drive first.
The safest way is to image copy the whole drive to a new drive. Put
the old drive in a safe place, and try to repair the new drive's
directory structure. Preferably doing a backup of the image you copied
to the new drive before you diddle it, so you can start over _without_
touching the old drive.
The clicking is most likely retries (ie: gouged media, weak magnetics).
You _can't_ fix that. You're unlikely to be able to repair even obvious
mechanical faults either.
gyps...@yahoo.com
have a pin in the middle to warrant "Security". Now I just need to
figure out where to get one.
I want to thank everyone for responding. In one day, there are 50
messages to help me identify a strange screw, offer help tips to
unscrew it, and an explanation of clean room. Newsgroup and all you
helpful people are awesome!
I also read a lot of questions on what I am planning on doing, and lots
of warnings on taking hard disc apart and killing it. I would like to
answer these questions and clarify my position. First, you can read
about what I am planning on doing here:
http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/DisplayComments.php?file=Tool/Screwdriver_for_5-Point_Star_Screw.html
As you can see, I am not talking about taking the internal hard drive
apart (although I have done that in the past). But rather, I want to
take the external case apart.
Chieh
--
Camera Hacker - http://www.CameraHacker.com/
Noozer
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ehMyf.73852$XJ5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> The Torx drivers sold in hardware have six points, and this monstrosity
> has
> five. Of course, it is designed to be a bastard conifguration, and you
> can't
> get the driver for it.
>
> As the other fellow suggested, try slotted jewlers screw drivers,
> sometimes
> you can get one to wedge in just right.
It's a "security" bit. Should be able to find one in most tool shops - NOT
Home Despot, etc.
mm
Lewis) wrote:
>According to mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com>:
>> My drive is clicking, and one important partition has a very bad
>> directory structure. I'm not sure I can copy over even the good
>> partitions before it "fails". If I open it, what would I want to do
>> to stop the clicking, or to keep the clicking syndrome from preventing
>> me from copying the data to a good drive.
>
>The best way to ensure that you can copy over the good partitions
>is to _not_ open the drive first.
No, I was going to open the drive last, after all my software
solutions failed. I'm sorry I didn't mention that.
>The safest way is to image copy the whole drive to a new drive. Put
>the old drive in a safe place, and try to repair the new drive's
>directory structure. Preferably doing a backup of the image you copied
>to the new drive before you diddle it, so you can start over _without_
>touching the old drive.
>
>The clicking is most likely retries (ie: gouged media, weak magnetics).
>You _can't_ fix that. You're unlikely to be able to repair even obvious
It only clicks if I try to access the bad partition, and even then not
always . I can read the good partitions, but I'm told the clicking
will get worse.
>mechanical faults either.
mm
Lewis) wrote:
>According to mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com>:
>> On 16 Jan 2006 18:15:57 GMT, Arno Wagner <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> >Definitely correct. For anti-tamper there is Torx with a pin
>> >in the middle that needs a Torx driver with a hole. Standard
>> >Torx is just very well suited for automated mounting and also
>
>> I hadn't thought about that, but I had noticed that it stays on the
>> tip without magnetism, even when the tip is horizontal.
>
>Square drive (eg: Canadian "Robertson") are almost as good. I drove several
>hundred 3" deck screws through flooring yesterday - once put on the driver,
>they stayed put on the driver and could be started and driven without touching
>the screw.
>
>No cam-out either.
>
>I still think they should make the manufacture and sale of slotted and
>phillips screws a capital offence.
That would be like making digitial tv the standard, and non-digital
tv's dificult to use.
Think of all the screwdrivers that would have to go on welfare.
J. Clarke
Unless you have the tools and skills to identify and repair a surface defect
there's nothing much you can do by opening the drive that will "stop the
clicking". Either copy as much as you can before it fails or send it to a
data recovery company that has the necessary tools.
> Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
> me know if you have posted also.
--
George E. Cawthon
> "TORX PLUS" [NOT TORX]
>
> http://www.wihatools.com/716_IPR_serie.htm
>
Thanks for the URL, new that screw didn't look
like regular torx but have seen that type of screw
and certainly didn't know there were 3 different
torx screws. Something new every day.
Joshua Putnam
@bigfoot.com says...
> I wonder how long until there are chrome torx screws for
> decorative places.
I know they're already available special order, but I like the looks
of stainless better anyway, and they're readily available.
--
jo...@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html>
Folkert Rienstra
> According to mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com>:
> > My drive is clicking, and one important partition has a very bad
> > directory structure. I'm not sure I can copy over even the good
> > partitions before it "fails". If I open it, what would I want to do
> > to stop the clicking, or to keep the clicking syndrome from preventing
> > me from copying the data to a good drive.
>
> The best way to ensure that you can copy over the good partitions
> is to _not_ open the drive first.
>
> The safest way is to image copy the whole drive to a new drive. Put
> the old drive in a safe place, and try to repair the new drive's
> directory structure. Preferably doing a backup of the image you copied
> to the new drive before you diddle it, so you can start over _without_
> touching the old drive.
>
> The clicking is most likely retries
> (ie: gouged media, weak magnetics).
Just any unrecoverable read error (which isn't necessarily a physical one,
it can just be a bad write, ie a logical error).
> You _can't_ fix that.
Yes you _can_, for the logical bad blocks.
James Sweet
> [I've been taking them apart to play with the magnets--- not as strong as I
> expected in the newer drives]
>
> magnets? in a hard drive?
>
>
>
Hard drives have very powerful neodymium magnets in the servo actuator
for the read/write head assembly. You have to be careful not to pinch
your fingers between them but they're cool to play with.
James Sweet
> On 16 Jan 2006 08:17:07 -0800, "stic...@gmail.com"
> <stic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ....
>
>>I've opened hard drives again and again in very filthy rooms and
>>they've never shown any ill effects over the days, or in some cases
>>weeks, that I operated them. I do this all the time with old drives
>>because I can see what's happening inside the drive while I test my
>>control circuitry.
>>
>>If I was manufacturing hundreds of thousands of drives and had to worry
>>about warranties and customer satisfaction, I'd be doing it in a clean
>>room. And I would buy a new drive before attempting to repair a damaged
>>one. But you definitely can operate a hard drive without the cover for
>>a while; probably long enough to do whatever you want if you don't
>>dawdle.
>
>
> My drive is clicking, and one important partition has a very bad
> directory structure. I'm not sure I can copy over even the good
> partitions before it "fails". If I open it, what would I want to do
> to stop the clicking, or to keep the clicking syndrome from preventing
> me from copying the data to a good drive.
>
There's nothing you can do by opening it. If it's clicking that means
it's unable to read the disc due to a hardware failure. I've had some
luck placing the whole drive in the freezer for a couple hours and then
copying the important stuff off immediately but if that doesn't work
either pay the $ for professional recovery or throw away the drive
because I can guarantee you won't fix it by opening it.
Rob B
"James Sweet" <james...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:NwYyf.15936$h47.10838@trnddc08...
has anyone ever pinched the fingers ? i bought some of these neodynium
"warning extra strong" magnets from hardware store and skeptical i tried to
pinch my fingers and have had no luck, well if that is the label to give
such actions :)
mm
wrote:
>mm wrote:
>>
>> My drive is clicking, and one important partition has a very bad
>> directory structure. I'm not sure I can copy over even the good
>> partitions before it "fails". If I open it, what would I want to do
>> to stop the clicking, or to keep the clicking syndrome from preventing
>> me from copying the data to a good drive.
>>
>
>
>There's nothing you can do by opening it. If it's clicking that means
>it's unable to read the disc due to a hardware failure. I've had some
>luck placing the whole drive in the freezer for a couple hours and then
>copying the important stuff off immediately but if that doesn't work
>either pay the $ for professional recovery or throw away the drive
>because I can guarantee you won't fix it by opening it.
Well, they want 1000 dollars or more.
What about putting it in the freezer while I use it?
Would't the heat of the drive and the coldness of the freezer, or
fridge, which I could adjust if someone gave me some guidance, keep it
at a steady rather cold temp?
The flat wire is long enough, and the power wire can be any length I
want it to be.
mm
>
>> Hard drives have very powerful neodymium magnets in the servo actuator
>> for the read/write head assembly. You have to be careful not to pinch
>> your fingers between them but they're cool to play with.
>>
>
>has anyone ever pinched the fingers ? i bought some of these neodynium
>"warning extra strong" magnets from hardware store and skeptical i tried to
>pinch my fingers and have had no luck, well if that is the label to give
>such actions :)
I've practically tried to glue my fingers together with super-glue,
and had no luck there either. :)
Isaac Wingfield
Dan Espen <dan...@MORE.mk.SPAMtelcordia.com> wrote:
> gyps...@yahoo.com writes:
>
> > I'm looking for a 5-point star shaped screwdriver. I bought a Seagate
> > 80GB external hard drive. Its case uses these special screws. I shot a
> > picture of a screw here:
> > http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/Tool/Screwdriver_for_5-Point_Star_Screw.files
> > .hidden/5-point%20star.jpg
> >
> > Does anyone know where I can find a screwdriver for these screws?
> > Thanks.
>
> In my opinion, someone should be arrested for using these things.
They're not used to make it difficult for you to get inside, but because
it reduces manufacturing cost. Those screws don't slip off the bit, and
you don't have to apply any pressure to the driver to prevent "cogging".
They're just perfect for torque-limited power drivers in high-volume
manufacturing situations.
And as others have mentioned, they come out very nicely using a
properly-sized flat blade. Sometimes a hex wrench will fit, too.
Isaac
Isaac Wingfield
Odie Ferrous <odie_f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
NO! Do NOT do that.
Some of those magnets can crash together fast enough to shatter. If they
shatter, the small pieces (also sharp), do not have enough mass to be
strongly attracted to whatever is left of the magnet. They can fly away
at very high velocity, and cause serious injuries (to eyes, for example).
Isaac
Isaac Wingfield
Arno Wagner <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage wrench <wre...@409.com> wrote:
> >> Torx screws are seldom used for no other purpose then to keep the
> >> prying eyes of consumers from sensitive stuff. Thats why they're
> >> used in elevators.
>
> > Not an accurate statement. Torx drive screws have been used on
> > vehicles for ten years plus. They are not (in their standard form)
> > an anti tamper fastener.
>
> Definitely correct. For anti-tamper there is Torx with a pin
> in the middle that needs a Torx driver with a hole.
Or a little work with a strong, small flat blade, to bend it back and
forth until it breaks off.
Isaac
Joshua Putnam
i...@witzend.com says...
Also can cause death if ingested, google for the recent news reports
of a toddler killed by magnets from Bionicle if I remember correctly,
attracted to each other through neighboring bends in the child's
intestine.
Chris Lewis
Not by opening the drive... About the only thing that someone that
doesn't have major equipment can accomplish by opening it up is to
replace the drive electronics. Some of our support people are quite
good at resurrecting drives by swapping the electronics (they keep
electronics sets from head-crashed drives). But the OPs problem is
not the electronics.
Perhaps most of these types of failures (drive clicking - retries)
can be "fixed" by causing the drive to write on the bad blocks, and
then doing a fixdisk or equivalent. I'm familiar with somewhat
older gear under UNIX, where you take the sector number from the error
messages and use "dd" or write a small program to write a single
block over the bad sector. Then run the file system repair utilities
(ie: fsck) to clear/reclaim it.
These days with smarter controllers, they sometimes automatically
self-repair (spare out the bad sector), or a simple low-level reformat
of the drive will fix or spare it out. You might find a suitable
procedure on the manufacturer's web site.
Chris Lewis
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 21:12:48 -0000, cle...@nortelnetworks.com (Chris
> Lewis) wrote:
> >I still think they should make the manufacture and sale of slotted and
> >phillips screws a capital offence.
> That would be like making digitial tv the standard, and non-digital
> tv's dificult to use.
You did know that the US Congress was mandating digital-only TV
(I think) April 2009 didn't you?
> Think of all the screwdrivers that would have to go on welfare.
Screwdriver smugglers.
Rob B
"mm" <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:m3qos195ojo6a9q71...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 02:38:42 GMT, "Rob B" <Ro...@where.on.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Hard drives have very powerful neodymium magnets in the servo actuator
> >> for the read/write head assembly. You have to be careful not to pinch
> >> your fingers between them but they're cool to play with.
> >>
> >
> >has anyone ever pinched the fingers ? i bought some of these neodynium
> >"warning extra strong" magnets from hardware store and skeptical i tried
to
> >pinch my fingers and have had no luck, well if that is the label to give
> >such actions :)
>
> I've practically tried to glue my fingers together with super-glue,
> and had no luck there either. :)
>
i suppose i am luckier than you for i have super'd my fingers together
but i was not trying
Rod Speed
> In article <ic4q441...@mk.telcordia.com>,
> Dan Espen <dan...@MORE.mk.SPAMtelcordia.com> wrote:
>
>> gyps...@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>>> I'm looking for a 5-point star shaped screwdriver. I bought a
>>> Seagate 80GB external hard drive. Its case uses these special
>>> screws. I shot a picture of a screw here:
>>> http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/Tool/Screwdriver_for_5-Point_Star_Screw.files
>>> .hidden/5-point%20star.jpg
>>>
>>> Does anyone know where I can find a screwdriver for these screws?
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> In my opinion, someone should be arrested for using these things.
>
> They're not used to make it difficult for you to get inside, but
> because it reduces manufacturing cost. Those screws don't slip off
> the bit, and you don't have to apply any pressure to the driver to
> prevent "cogging". They're just perfect for torque-limited power
> drivers in high-volume manufacturing situations.
Doesnt explain why they used the tamperproof
and hard to get 5 lobe format.
Dr. Hardcrab
"John McGaw" <nob...@nowh.ere> wrote
> If you want to buy Torx Plus tools you must, in theory anyway, be a
> legitimate user as defined by Textron although if you know anyone who
> works with them they should be pretty easily obtained at the cost of a
> case of beer. ;-)
http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/product-group.aspx?id=7957
Doug Miller
>"Doug Miller" <spam...@milmac.com> wrote in message
> news:ycNyf.9916$dW3...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com
>> In article <MtMyf.156727$Ph4.4...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Handi"
> <hand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > I'd dare to guess that if this fellow doesn't recognize a Torx screw
>> > that he isn't aware that he should never open a hard drive.
>>
>> I guess you can't recognize one either. :-)
>
>The same to you.
Try again.
>
>> What he has is not a Torx screw.
>
>Yes it is, as someone else showed from the Wiha page.
No, it's not. This is a five-pointed star. Torx screws have six points.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Ron(UK)
What about all us old time service guys who never took courses on using
these new fangled screwdriver whatnots! We`ll have to go on welfare as well.
Ron
--
Lune Valley Audio
Public address system
Hire, Sales, Repairs
www.lunevalleyaudio.com
chrisv
>>
>> Hard drives have very powerful neodymium magnets in the servo actuator
>> for the read/write head assembly. You have to be careful not to pinch
>> your fingers between them but they're cool to play with.
>
>has anyone ever pinched the fingers ? i bought some of these neodynium
>"warning extra strong" magnets from hardware store and skeptical i tried to
>pinch my fingers and have had no luck, well if that is the label to give
>such actions :)
You haven't tried big/strong ones, then. I have some that are 1"
diameter and 1/4" thick, and I guarantee you that they'll give you a
pinch you will not soon forget! They are also extremely difficult to
seperate, once locked-together.
chrisv
>To avoid this problem in the future
Ignore the SCSI troll.
J. Clarke
No Torx Plus in that set, just Security Torx. Torx Plus is different from
Torx, and Torx Plus TR is different from either.
Rob B
"chrisv" <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:5hups1d1otdes2qde...@4ax.com...
well the ones i tried were small button type maybe 1/3" diameter and 1/8"
thick they certainly were strong they hold more to the fridge than those
crap magnets and prettier too
but i could not pinch anything with those :)
Folkert Rienstra
> According to Folkert Rienstra folkertxx...@wanadoo.nl:
Please, do not use Reply-To addresses in attribution lines. Get a decent newsclient, or change your attribution line, like everyone
else.
Who says.
>
> Perhaps most of these types of failures (drive clicking - retries)
> can be "fixed" by causing the drive to write on the bad blocks, and
> then doing a fixdisk or equivalent. I'm familiar with somewhat
> older gear under UNIX, where you take the sector number from the error
> messages and use "dd" or write a small program to write a single
> block over the bad sector. Then run the file system repair utilities
> (ie: fsck) to clear/reclaim it.
>
> These days with smarter controllers, they sometimes automatically
> self-repair (spare out the bad sector),
Only if the sector is readable with retries.
Unrecoverable read error bad sectors are only reallocated on writes.
Folkert Rienstra
> mm wrote:
> > On 16 Jan 2006 08:17:07 -0800, "stic...@gmail.com" <stic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > ....
> >
> > > I've opened hard drives again and again in very filthy rooms and
> > > they've never shown any ill effects over the days, or in some cases
> > > weeks, that I operated them. I do this all the time with old drives
> > > because I can see what's happening inside the drive while I test my
> > > control circuitry.
> > >
> > > If I was manufacturing hundreds of thousands of drives and had to worry
> > > about warranties and customer satisfaction, I'd be doing it in a clean
> > > room. And I would buy a new drive before attempting to repair a damaged
> > > one. But you definitely can operate a hard drive without the cover for
> > > a while; probably long enough to do whatever you want if you don't dawdle.
> >
> >
> > My drive is clicking, and one important partition has a very bad
> > directory structure. I'm not sure I can copy over even the good
> > partitions before it "fails". If I open it, what would I want to do
> > to stop the clicking, or to keep the clicking syndrome from preventing
> > me from copying the data to a good drive.
> >
>
> There's nothing you can do by opening it.
> If it's clicking that means it's unable to read the disc
>due to a hardware failure.
Nonsense.
If it's clicking it means it does a rezero every time it retries a read operation.
It does that on ECC errors and also on CRC errors on the interface.
Neither is necessarily caused by a hardware failure.
Bad power supply, overheated drive or bad data cable can cause this too.
Folkert Rienstra
> In article <43cbe2ed$0$19285$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>, "Folkert Rienstra" <obscured> wrote:
And another idiot with a broken newsclient showing Reply-To addresses.
> > "Doug Miller" spam...@milmac.com> wrote in message news:ycNyf.9916$dW3...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com
> > > In article <MtMyf.156727$Ph4.4...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Handi" <hand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I'd dare to guess that if this fellow doesn't recognize a Torx screw
> > > > that he isn't aware that he should never open a hard drive.
> > >
> > > I guess you can't recognize one either. :-)
> >
> > The same to you.
>
> Try again.
> >
> > > What he has is not a Torx screw.
> >
> > Yes it is, as someone else showed from the Wiha page.
>
> No, it's not. This is a five-pointed star. Torx screws have six points.
And the 5 pointed star is a Torx too.
There is no such thing as *the* "torx" screw.
Folkert Rienstra
> Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
>
> > To avoid this problem in the future
>
> Ignore the SCSI troll.
It was, until you gave it attention.
Joshua Putnam
drhar...@hotmail.SPAMcom says...
Doesn't appear to include 5-pointed Torx, only 6-pointed.
--
jo...@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Books for Bicycle Mechanics and Tinkerers:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikebooks.html>
Chris Lewis
> "Chris Lewis" <cle...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message news:11sotrs...@corp.supernews.com
> > According to Folkert Rienstra folkertxx...@wanadoo.nl:
> Please, do not use Reply-To addresses in attribution lines. Get a decent newsclient, or change
> your attribution line, like everyone else.
I assure you, trn 4 is a decent news reader, and substituting in the Reply-To for
From: is actually the right thing to do if the attribution line is to have anything
in it resembling the followup'd to user's address.
Spammers aren't stupid enough to ignore Reply-To headers - in fact, smart
ones would be scraping them in _preference_ to From: headers.
And those that scrape the whole message (which is why you're worried about
my attribution, right?) will scrape the reply-to _too_. So, you're shooting
yourself in the foot far more than the occasional followup from someone
using reasonable newsreader attribution defaults like me.
If you want to avoid Usenet scrapers, you need to not mention your real
email address AT ALL, or munge it.
Eg: "folkertdashrienstra (at) wanadoo.nl", or "folkerspamt...@wanadoo.nl".
Reply-To is not a useful approach for evading Usenet email address scrapers.
If you don't want to get it scraped, _don't_ imagine that Reply-To will hide it.
Chris Lewis
> "chrisv" <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> > You haven't tried big/strong ones, then. I have some that are 1"
> > diameter and 1/4" thick, and I guarantee you that they'll give you a
> > pinch you will not soon forget! They are also extremely difficult to
> > seperate, once locked-together.
> well the ones i tried were small button type maybe 1/3" diameter and 1/8"
> thick they certainly were strong they hold more to the fridge than those
> crap magnets and prettier too
The Lee Valley catalog has a variety of rare earth magnets from 1/4" to
1" in diameter. The 3/8 & 1/2" ones are great for fridge magnets.
The 1" ones are used for cargo strap tie-downs, which should give you
an idea of how strong they are. Need special techniques for prying
two of them apart. If they're allowed to come together unrestrained,
they _will_ chip and throw chunks. I wouldn't want to get a small
fold of skin between two of those!
[I have 5 of them, I just haven't gotten around to making the separation
jig yet.]
Arno Wagner
> "Arno Wagner" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:43266tF...@individual.net...
>> Torx is optimised for maximum torque without damaging the
>> tool or screw and easier insertion than the standard 6-way
>> symmetric format. IMO ist qualifies as possibly the best
>> all around screw head format.
> Yes... you can actually hold the screw with the screwdriver... that is, put
> the screw on the end of the screwdriver, then move it into position.
Exactly.
Arno
Arno Wagner
> According to mm <NOPSAM...@bigfoot.com>:
>> On 16 Jan 2006 18:15:57 GMT, Arno Wagner <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> >Definitely correct. For anti-tamper there is Torx with a pin
>> >in the middle that needs a Torx driver with a hole. Standard
>> >Torx is just very well suited for automated mounting and also
>
>> I hadn't thought about that, but I had noticed that it stays on the
>> tip without magnetism, even when the tip is horizontal.
> Square drive (eg: Canadian "Robertson") are almost as good. I drove several
> hundred 3" deck screws through flooring yesterday - once put on the driver,
> they stayed put on the driver and could be started and driven without touching
> the screw.
> No cam-out either.
> I still think they should make the manufacture and sale of slotted and
> phillips screws a capital offence.
Careful! Outlawing stupidity, while highly desirable, would lead to
chaos.
Arno
Arno Wagner
Should work as well, agreed. Unless you want to make warranty
claims afterwasrds ;-)
Arno
Dan Lanciani
| In article <L44zf.13116$Zo.11468@trnddc07>,
| drhar...@hotmail.SPAMcom says...
| >
| > "John McGaw" <nob...@nowh.ere> wrote
| >
| >
| > > If you want to buy Torx Plus tools you must, in theory anyway, be a
| > > legitimate user as defined by Textron although if you know anyone who
| > > works with them they should be pretty easily obtained at the cost of a
| > > case of beer. ;-)
| >
| >
| > http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/product-group.aspx?id=7957
|
| Doesn't appear to include 5-pointed Torx, only 6-pointed.
How about this:
http://sjdiscounttools.com/sk84231.html
(The SK84231 set is available from many sites, but this one had a short URL.)
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Folkert Rienstra
> According to Folkert Rienstra <folkertds...@wanadoo.nl>:
> > "Chris Lewis" <cle...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message news:11sotrs...@corp.supernews.com
> > > According to Folkert Rienstra folkertxx...@wanadoo.nl:
>
> > Please, do not use Reply-To addresses in attribution lines.
>
> I assure you, trn 4 is a decent news reader,
Obviously not if it is straying from standard practice.
> and substituting in the Reply-To for From: is actually the right thing to do
No, it is not.
> if the attribution line is to have anything in it resembling the to user's address.
Nonsense. Obviously Reply-To is for replying-to/following-up.
Contributor attribution has nothing got to do with follow-up.
Any decent news/email client automatically uses the Reply-To from the header
if you choose email reply (reply to sender) and reverts to From: if it is empty.
No point whatsoever to use it in attribution lines.
Any news/email client that relies on attribution lines for replies is obviously broken.
>
> Spammers aren't stupid enough to ignore Reply-To headers - in fact, smart
> ones would be scraping them in _preference_ to From: headers.
Practice says different.
>
> And those that scrape the whole message (which is why you're worried about
> my attribution,
> right?)
Wrong. I don't want my Reply address used in bodies.
> will scrape the reply-to _too_.
> So, you're shooting yourself in the foot
Nope, it is you who is shooting me in the foot.
> far more than the occasional followup from someone
> using reasonable newsreader attribution defaults like me.
If it was reasonable every other newsreader would use it. Guess what.
>
> If you want to avoid Usenet scrapers, you need to not mention your real
> email address AT ALL, or munge it.
Or use that what was intended to use and isn't normally used in usenet bodies
(not the header).
>
> Eg: "xxxxxxxx (at) yyyyyyy.zz", or xxxxxsp...@yyyyyyy.zz.
I told you not to use my Reply addres in usenet messages and here you
go again. It's bloody obvious how to undo the spamtraps from that.
>
> Reply-To is not a useful approach for evading Usenet email address scrapers.
> If you don't want to get it scraped, _don't_ imagine that Reply-To will hide it.
I don't imagine, you are. I just see what happens in practice.
Doug Miller
>And the 5 pointed star is a Torx too.
Not correct.
>There is no such thing as *the* "torx" screw.
Also not correct. But you seem impervious to logic, so I'm done.
Stan Blazejewski
old 85meg RLL hard drive because the auto park wouldn't release. This was on
the kitchen table & that drive is still working today .... you'd think it would
have just plain worn out by now.
I noticed it had filters inside it to clean the air moving inside it so I expect
it was all clean again within seconds if not minutes of firing up again.
The 'new' drives I've pulled apart for the magnets seem to have the air filters
as well although I'd expect today's technology to be less tolerant to dirty air
what with the amount of data that they pack into the smaller space but I still
wouldn't expect it to die in "a few days or weeks".
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:48:28 -0000, "David C. Partridge"
<afb1...@dialxwy.pipex.com> wrote:
>Cough! I said class 1 not class 100!
>
>Sure a drive will function for a while with the case off, but it will die
>soonish (maybe a few days or weeks, but it will die).
>
>If OTOH all you are doing is extracting the magnets from old drives - then
>go right on ..
>
>Dave
>"Odie Ferrous" <odie_f...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:43CB68CF...@hotmail.com...
>> "David C. Partridge" wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmmmm why do you want to open the case of the drive? If you open it
>>> outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die.
>>>
>>> Or are you talking about the drive mounting screws?
>>
>> Perhaps the drive already *is* dead.
>>
>> Don't overestimate clean rooms - they contain 100 particles per cubic
>> meter as opposed to an "average" room containing 600 particles. A
>> "clean" "average" room will contain far less than the 600 particles.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I've had a drive running non-stop for over a week
>> without its cover (platters exposed) and haven't had any hiccups. This
>> hype about "clean rooms" is a load of drivel.
>>
>> There are those who will say "if you get one single particle of dust on
>> your platters, your drive will be irretrievably damaged."
>>
>> Bollox. And bollox to FR, who will no doubt disagree.
>>
>>
>> Odie
>> --
>> Retrodata
>> www.retrodata.co.uk
>> Globally Local Data Recovery Experts
>
--
Australia isn't "down under", it's "off to one side"!
stan...@netspace.net.au
www.cobracat.com (home of the Australian Cobra Catamaran)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cobra-cat/
James Sweet
> Rob B wrote:
>
>
>>>Hard drives have very powerful neodymium magnets in the servo actuator
>>>for the read/write head assembly. You have to be careful not to pinch
>>>your fingers between them but they're cool to play with.
>>
>>has anyone ever pinched the fingers ? i bought some of these neodynium
>>"warning extra strong" magnets from hardware store and skeptical i tried to
>>pinch my fingers and have had no luck, well if that is the label to give
>>such actions :)
>
>
Yes I've gotten nasty blood blisters on several occasions. Take apart
any 3.5" hard drive and pull the magnets out, they'll stick to each
other very strongly. If you can find an old 5.25" SCSI drive you'll
likely find even bigger magnets.
J. Clarke
Hey, not his fault that the blasted screw was defective.
> Arno
J. Clarke
> I'd have to side with Odie here. About 15 'years' ago I pulled apart an
> (now)
> old 85meg RLL hard drive because the auto park wouldn't release. This was
> on the kitchen table & that drive is still working today .... you'd think
> it would have just plain worn out by now.
>
> I noticed it had filters inside it to clean the air moving inside it so I
> expect it was all clean again within seconds if not minutes of firing up
> again.
Examine that filter carefully and you will find that its primary function is
to filter the tiny amount of air moving through the pressure-equalization
hole and that there is no mechanism by which all or any significant portion
of the air circulating inside the capsule can be made to pass through it.
> The 'new' drives I've pulled apart for the magnets seem to have the air
> filters as well although I'd expect today's technology to be less tolerant
> to dirty air what with the amount of data that they pack into the smaller
> space but I still wouldn't expect it to die in "a few days or weeks".
It dies as soon as something hard enough to scratch the platter or head and
small enough to get wedged between them finds its way into that space.
In the real world people have tried this, and the drives typically died in
anywhere from a few hours to a few weeks.
--
Rob B
ok curiosity has the better of me , i have several pandora drives stuffed in
a box, couple of old 420 mb scsi out of old sun classics some old 180 -
1.2GB drives lying around, i will be going on the magnet hunt shortly. too
bad i just recently dumped an old 1 GB 5 1/2 full height scsi out of old
HP/UX box it made a great desk anchor
James Sweet
Every single time I've ever had a hard drive clicking it was caused by a
failure of the drive, I've never even heard of it caused by those other
issues, with the exception being a couple of early very hot running 10K
rpm drives. Bad drive is 99% the reason.
Chris Lewis
> "Chris Lewis" <cle...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message news:11sqeh2...@corp.supernews.com
> > According to Folkert Rienstra <folkertds...@wanadoo.nl>:
> > > "Chris Lewis" <cle...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message news:11sotrs...@corp.supernews.com
> > > > According to Folkert Rienstra folkertxx...@wanadoo.nl:
> > > Please, do not use Reply-To addresses in attribution lines.
> > > Get a decent newsclient, or change your attribution line, like everyone else does.
> > I assure you, trn 4 is a decent news reader,
> Obviously not if it is straying from standard practice.
What standard? trn set _the_ standard for more years than your newsreader
has existed or you have been posting to Usenet.
There is no standard on attribution lines. Indeed, the only comments
on this topic I've been able to google say _exactly_ what trn is doing -
reply-to if present, From otherwise.
> > and substituting in the Reply-To for From: is actually the right thing to do
> No, it is not.
Funny, in the 20+ years I've been posting on Usenet (largely to groups specific
to Usenet, Email and anti-spam standards, operations and practise), and the 10s
of thousands of postings I've made to Usenet, you're the first to suggest it's wrong.
> > Spammers aren't stupid enough to ignore Reply-To headers - in fact, smart
> > ones would be scraping them in _preference_ to From: headers.
> Practice says different.
I don't think someone who uses Outlook as a newsreader should be lecturing
anyone on newsreader "practise", let alone lecturing _me_ on spammer practises...
Perhaps Outlook's braindamage leads you to believe that spammers can't see
reply-tos.
I assure you, spammers don't do this by hand. They use specialized
NNTP clients, and scan _everything_ in the message - headers, bodies,
everything. Valid Reply-tos are vastly more blaringly obvious than
arbitrary hand munging.
Any spammer with enough neurons to be able to
write a generalized demunger is sure going to notice
reply-to.
If you don't want your email address scraped, don't include
it in the posting.
Arno Wagner
> "David C. Partridge" wrote:
>>
>> Hmmmm why do you want to open the case of the drive? If you open it
>> outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die.
>>
>> Or are you talking about the drive mounting screws?
>
> Perhaps the drive already *is* dead.
> Don't overestimate clean rooms - they contain 100 particles per cubic
> meter as opposed to an "average" room containing 600 particles. A
> "clean" "average" room will contain far less than the 600 particles.
> For what it's worth, I've had a drive running non-stop for over a week
> without its cover (platters exposed) and haven't had any hiccups. This
> hype about "clean rooms" is a load of drivel.
Interessting.
Arno