Just a new formulation
O.H.
misinformation (the public). language as the key to the Phaistos disk
has long time passed. Now we are talking: quantities, repeated
successions of signs, hierachical orders etc. and above all : the
calendar aspect!
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/hierarchi.htm
Avoid nastyness brush your teeth.
Because I still believe, that I am livilg in a FREE world.
marathoner
O.H.
>Your nostalgi is understandable, but should'nt we stop further
>misinformation (the public). language as the key to the Phaistos disk
>has long time passed. Now we are talking: quantities, repeated
>successions of signs, hierachical orders etc. and above all : the
>calendar aspect!
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/hierarchi.htm
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/gordian.gif
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/eureka.htm
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/kaede.gif
>
Marathon man
grapheus
O.H. wrote:
> Your nostalga is understandable, but should'nt we stop further
> misinformation (the public). language as the key to the Phaistos disk
> has long time passed.
Strange statement, ignoring that there is ONE solution -based upon
language-, which has been PROVED by more than 30 pieces of evidence !..
I deeply respect your efforts, Ole, but you should wake up now from
your dream... It's not a problem of nostalgia, but of lack of
information from your part.
Best regards
grapheus
O.H.
Thank you. Well I guess I respect yours too; but I need to announce
for some harder effort from your part in argueing against my view on
the topic.
For instance, why is it possible to chain together all words? Just
give me a single parallell example from the literature, please!
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/kaede.gif
Hagen
grapheus
Easy answer !.. The Proto-Ionic deciphered text, that you have chosen
to ignore !!!
grapheus
O.H.
Or give me a text in some 250 characters with a range of distribution
close to the Phaistos disc's., which possess a similar perfect order
of appearences of signs.
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/hierar.htm
Can't you see, this figures puts a serious doubt upon any language
proposal, inclussive that of the Proto-Ionion ?
Hagen
grapheus
Sorry, Ole, but my answer is NO, because, from the beginning on, your
"perfect order" came from manipulations to "make disappear" what didn't
fit, what you call "exceptions" : adding the 5 dots to the signs-list,
in spite of the fact that they are ON the border-line, not IN a
compartment as the other signs -- not taking into account the sign c in
A23 -- etc. To the point that one paragraph in your book is entitled
"The exception proves the rule" !.. Here again, in your table, you
have been obliged to talk about "exceptions" and the way to make them
disappear...
Regards
grapheus
O.H.
Very old-fashioned. Exceptions happen to prove rules sometimes!
Remember a proverb saying " Little strokes fell great oakes ".
Duplicity
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/eureka.htm
Bingo lottery, easy.
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/fig13b.htm
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/gnomonic.htm
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/ph3.htm
Hagen
dan5...@yahoo.com
NB. Are all my links completely ignored for 10 years?
I can't know better. I've got zero responses
grapheus
Very old fashioned ?.. Maybe...
But a specific problem with the Disc is the great number of
"pseudo-decipherments" , in which the would-be-decipherer begins by
considering an hypothese as correct, then noticing that it leads to an
obstacle, explains the lack of fit by "an exception"... Your
"solution" doesn't escape to that rule. How can you, then, be surprised
that it has been put "into the same bag" that all these vain attempts
?..
grapheus
O.H.
A deciphering key is rarely universal. So a continuation of the linear
B grid was useless in this case. It took something new, to realise
that the signs were indissolubly connected into elements, before they
gave in to a system. The translations of the Knossos and Pylos tablets
still get marks of interrogation (exceptions) in marginal notes.
No decipherment stands indefeasible in every minutiae in all future;
although mine is close.
Hagen
grapheus
This is correct. But, happily, there are other methods to decipher the
text !..
> It took something new, to realise
> that the signs were indissolubly connected into elements, before they
> gave in to a system. The translations of the Knossos and Pylos tablets
> still get marks of interrogation (exceptions) in marginal notes.
> No decipherment stands indefeasible in every minutiae in all future;
> although mine is close.
That is what you think. Not me.
Sorry about that !
grapheus
hagen
The original five years of studying the topic, soon became ten years
together, many addresses to many periodicals later, making every pixel
myself.
I promised my beloved to experience a publication, this has lost its
meaning.
I became suspicious, is this a boy cott? Can't be.
Take Diether Shurr's groping attempt to locate stems (Kadmos 12,
1973, abb.3, p.12), but my absolute amount of 22 stems solves all his
problems.
Or take Werner Nahm's intuition for comparable sentences (Kadmos 18,
1979, abb.8 p.14) Join with brackets my reduced signgroups, gives the
answer to his questions.
For one hundred years all encyclopedias have pictured the Phaistos
disc, a popular riddle.
This case is done evil, alone by the reason that I can't blame good
people in believing I am wrong in my observations, due to the lack of
professional reactions.
A Doomsday prophecy? No !
A plain recovery of the Minoan calendar in accordance with its eight
months, and a wealth of valid observations.
More books have been written about the subject by experts not even
mentioning my name.
I am not a gambler, nevertheless a filthy poker game has been made out
of my decipherment
Hagen
grapheus
Hi, Ole !
I wish you a Very Happy New Year !
I hope for you that in 2006 you will open your eyes, and stop deluding
yourself like you do when you are talking about "a Minoan calendar with
its eight months", instead of talking of "a non-Minoan possible PARTIAL
calendar including only 8 months".
And, please, try to understand that the fact that such a "calendar" has
only 8 months instead of 12 or 13 (as all the primitive calendars based
upon the Moon-cycles have) appears so strange to anybody, that anybody,
but you, has to think that "something must be wrong with the
hypothesis" ...
Best regards
grapheus
hagen
grapheus skrev:
I could of course express myself moe precise, but I try to demonstrate,
that this is not essential, and it is more your style. I prefer to
think that this otherwise unknown calendar, that eliminates the
Winthers season, has roots back in Middle Minoan. Likewise I suggest
that you refer to the early Roman 10 months calendar as "the Romulus
calendar" out of poor conveniency. And the Egyptian 12 months "the
Helios calendar" ;-) Happy New Year !
Ole Hagen
hagen
hagen skrev:
>Meaning: what counts is enumerations, not words. As simple as that.
hagen
hagen skrev:
I repeat my old request:
If you as an editor of a good standing periodical see this page and
take interest in my discovery, then please contact me for a solitary
publication of my proposal for an alternative alphabetic notation. This
would be a helpful introduction for everyone, who wants to study these
hieroglyphs, not as syllables, but as quantities, and a great support
for me. A text should be reduced to a brief editorial comment. - This
would be perfection. -
Hagen
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/phaistos.htm
hagen
hagen skrev:
All right. Two days have past since I wrote this message.
http://home.gvdnet.dk/~hagen/pro2.gif
Just to bring myself out of suspicion, know that i want the opposite of
what those people who don't response on this advertissement wants.
By the way, according to tradition the butler is guilty. Is there
anyone around with the name of Butler?
Best whishes
Hagen
hagen
hagen skrev:
You'll never experience in a lifetime anything as beautifull as mine
decipherment of the Phaistos Disc, and you know !.. You who I disgust
look forward, that I, a man of passion, bring you a special new year
message every ten years. I preserve the highest "pre" for this
philosophy, which has become for me a tradition..
hagen
hagen skrev:
The key to the Phaistos disc:
http://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/pro2.gif
http://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/gnomonic.htm
This happy piece of history (below) deceived me.- I failed to see the
risk of intriguers.
The decipherment of Linear B by Michael Ventris some fifty years ago is
the equivalent in the humanities of Crick and Watson's discovery of the
structure of DNA. Today it belongs in the same rare class as
Champollion's decipherment of Egyptian hieroglyphs in the nineteenth
century.
http://www.wwnorton.com/thamesandhudson/new/spring02/551077.htm
how Ventris solved what has been dubbed "the Everest of Greek
archaeology". Interviews with friends and contemporaries reveal Ventris
to be an eternal outsider and an unconventional thinker, and suggests
that it was precisely his exclusion from British public school cliques
and academic communities which afforded him the freedom to take
intellectual risks.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/linear-b.shtml
Ventris hielt einen Vortrag über seine Arbeit beim Radiosender BBC,
wobei einer seiner Zuhörer John Chadwick war.
http://www-ivs.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/bs/lehre/wise0102/progb/vortraege/jmensing/mensing4.html
O. Hagen
hagen
Sort of Compact Disc, a storage medium: Imagine a scenario of 22
couples holding 61 weekly meetings each year If B, by way of example,
is unavoidable detained, then A stands as surety: (B)A. - All 22
couples are obliged to participate by both in at least two weekly
gatherings pro anno. A further set of very complicated rules are
followed strictly, and carefully entered into the annual minutes. This,
or a variant of it, would correspond with the platonic patterns that
I've demonstrated, whereas a language-structure in verse and with
rhymes and grammar do not by itself, produce minutely gnomonical
arrangements. E.F.A.N.K. ( Evidence for a non-linguistic key ).
http://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/fais.htm
> O. Hagen
grapheus
hagen wrote:
> What more do you want of me?
To wake up, Ole, from your self-delusion.
How can you write that
> I've demonstrated, whereas a language-structure in verse and with
> rhymes and grammar do not by itself, produce minutely gnomonical
> arrangements. E.F.A.N.K. ( Evidence for a non-linguistic key ).
when an irreproachable linguistical solution, the Proto-Ionic, does
exist ?..
grapheus
> http://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/fais.htm
> > O. Hagen
hagen
Likewise you probably could make some semi-sense text out of a chess
notation by replacing the moves with a letter code.
Ole Hagen
grapheus
hagen wrote:
> Yes, but what is important is that this text is constructed afterwards.
What do you mean by "afterwards" ????
> Likewise you probably could make some semi-sense text out of a chess
> notation by replacing the moves with a letter code.
In the case I cited, one cannot speak of "semi-sense", but he has to
talk about "a text which makes sense, is linguistically irreproachable,
and of wich the consequences have been verified by facts" . A big
difference with ALLl other deciphering attempts !
grapheus
hagen
signs!
http://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/gnomonic.htm
Hagen
hagen
Is it neccessary to tell that the revealing statistics, which recur in
all my many illustrations, did even not exist before I, "as the
pioneer, defined the absolute amount of 70 stems. All earlier
enumerations, based on the individual signs, did prove to be idle
attempts" as did a precise calendar model, before I realised that the
two initial markers infront of A01 and B01, were to be regarded as
concrete signs on level with the rest of the 45 signs
http://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/phaistos.htm
Hagen
grapheus
I agree that you did a very good job, discovering the "stems".
But considering the initial markers as "ordinary signs" is to introduce
"exceptions" in your demonstration. Exceptions don't "prove" your
calendaric idea. THEY KILL IT !..
A similar error has been done by Dr C. Henke, who has written an essay,
which would demontrate the "hierarchical order" of the signs of the
Phaistos Disk, and, as he wrote, would "be a proof against a written
text". Well, his "proof" shows just the contrary because of the
"exceptions" he has accepted !
Because, when one is in front of a text, he may establish "a
hierarchical order" of its signs, as long as there is NO INVERSION of
TWO (or more) signs. Example : If I take the alphabetic (very short)
text : "The Disc" , I may establish "a hierarchical order" of its signs
: T=1, H=2, E=3, D=4, I=5, S=6, C= 7. But if I have an INVERSION, like
in the text :"Please, epitomize!", there is a problem with the letters
P and E, with once P<E in "please", but another time P>E in
"epitomize". Well, this problem is solved when one accept, like Dr
Henke, "exceptions" , with some signs having not ONE rank-number, but
TWO ! Of course, these "exceptions" will generally concern THE MOST
FREQUENT signs, and this is the case with Dr Henke list of "exceptions"
for the Phaistos Disk. So it is the case with an alphabetic example of
50 signs, that I have taken at random. It is the sentence : "What is
the secret of the Disc, my dear ? Is it the number of the signs?" Well,
by accepting the 3 exceptions E, S, and T (which will have TWO ranks
possible : E = 12 and 7, S = 1 and 6, T = 7 and 19), I got the same
result as Dr Henke for the Phaistos Disk, because my sentence can be
"translated" by : 8-14-16-19 : 3-6 : 7-14-18 : 6-12-13-17-18-19 : 20-21
: 7-14-18 : 2-3-6-13 : 10-15 : 2-12-16-17 ? 3-6 : 3-7 : 7-14-18 :
5-9-10-11-12-17 : 20-21 : 7-14-18 : 1-3-4-5-6 ?
Dr Henke "demonstration" has no value : his "exceptions" have killed it
!..
And please notice that I found 3 exceptions for a text of 50 signs,
with 18 different signs. Dr Henke has found 8 exceptions for a text of
241 signs, with 45 different signs. As expected, the ratio 3/18
(=0.166) is approximately the same as 8/45 (=0.177).
Regards
grapheus
grapheus
and 18.
Sorry about the misprinting !
grapheus
hagen
That makes a bif difference!
I can't disagree in your rejection of Henke's experiment, in that I've
never really studied hierarchical orders of letters or syllables in a
text, but, as you know, in my perception of the signs as remnants of
elements, I only find one exception, not eight!
http://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/hierar.htm
Hagen