Houston, we have a problem...
Rick Sobie
Some are still inside it. It is an intergalactic craft.
It was struct by an asteroid in the south pole of the moon
and incapacitated. There was a flood when the inner water jacket
burst, then a mutiny, then some abandoned ship and arrived
in Sumeria. Developed Mesopotamia, and Judeo Christianity
et al.
2000 years ago, they calculated how much power they had left,
and how long they could sustain their orbit.
Then they wrote a book, called Revelations.
Tom McDonald
Rick,
Are you trying to say "Revelation", as in the last book of the
Christian Bible? If not, what do you mean?
Tom McDonald
Rick Sobie
"Tom McDonald" <tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> wrote in message
news:102v5gu...@corp.supernews.com...
Hi Tom,
For years I have been investigating certain things about the moon.
After asking questions such as white are white men white?
We must have not been subject to the same environmental conditions as
natives else our skin would not be so white.
So where did we come from. People said the Caucasus mountains
That does not explain our differences or where civilization came from.
So I studied these things and found out that the moon is an intergalactic
craft
that came through a wormhole at a lagrangian point (a planetary
gravitational
balance point) near Jupiter, as alluded to by Arthur C. Clarke in 2001.
I took a look at Tycho crater since Arthur C. also made mention of it,
and voila, on the website of Naval Space Command, they state that
under infrared, the unusual polygon structure of the floor of the crater,
can be more clearly seen.
Unusual polygon structure of the floor of the crater I thought?
And sure enough, it looks manufactured. So I investigate further, and
find that there is an abundance of evidence that the moon is a ship,
and in the south pole region, not visible from earth with the naked eye,
but hidden, lies the largest impact crater in the solar system.
2,500 km across and yet, it is extremely shallow. A scientific
impossibility.
Then I discover that the moon rocks containe pure titanium alloys
not found in nature.
Then piecing together the puzzle, I discover the dirt layer is 4 or 5 miles
thick,
and then the moons hull is miles thick titanium alloy, which accounts for
why
the crater was so shallow.
More research and I find they have been over the years arriving on earth,
and influencing the earths culture, and I make contact with them.
Then over sevral years I remote view the interior and have numerous lucid
dreams with those still on board and gain a pretty good idea what the
interior looks like.
After the impact, things carried on pretty much normal, until one day, the
inner hull water filled jacket, gave way from the original impact,
and there was a flood. Then there was mutiny, and some went underground
into the maintenance areas. Keep in mind the interior is hollow and gigantic
and terraformed for long haul intergalactic travel, with small cities
and industrial parks and countryside, and one strange item that I could
not understand though I had been there astral travelling many times.
One huge mountain. On the other side of it a large expanse of water.
Then I discovered the impact at the south pole and that explained the
mountain.
They are a type 3 civilization (see mkaku.org) who utilize a dwarf star
in their drive or something and the environment looks identical to here.
We are at their level of technology because that transfer of technology came
here, most recently at Roswell New Mexico perhaps but certainly
at the time of Mesopotamia and Babylon.
Which led to Judeo Christianity.
But getting back to that mountain...
After all this, just uesterday, what do I discover but ICA stones from Peru,
which depiect the moons arrival in the sky, and the imact at the south pole,
and even show the interior of the moon, and with - a mountain at the south
pole of the interior. And what appears to be, a side view of the military
commander, who went underground into the maintenance areas, named
Robert. They were miliary - Republicans, Governmental body - Democrats,
and the third arm was Catholicism, but of a confused modified form.
Here are the Ica stones showing the moon arriving in the sky,
and the collision. Obviously as told by ex-inhabitants.
The Ica stones, in Peru,
http://www.labyrinthina.com/ica.htm (middle of page)
and
http://genesismission.4t.com/dinosaurs/Ica_stones-1.jpg
And to answer your question, yes Revelation in the Bible,
and Robert the present military commander has recently told me,
there is not much time left. Probably no later than 2015 before the
moon's orbit, will begin to degrade, and come crashing to earth,
unless we can do something about it.
Rick Sobie
Wait Tom, where are you going? The saurians/reptoids underground are not
going to save you. They eat meat don't they?
And for those who may not be aware of this let me state it again...
The moon is a spacecraft, which housed the original caucasion race.
Some are still inside it. It is an intergalactic craft.
It was struct by an asteroid in the south pole of the moon
and incapacitated. There was a flood when the inner water jacket
burst, then a mutiny, then some abandoned ship and arrived
in Sumeria. Developed Mesopotamia, and Judeo Christianity
et al.
2000 years ago, they calculated how much power they had left,
and how long they could sustain their orbit.
Then they wrote a book which became part of the Bible,
called Revelation.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
(I have added alt.fan.art-bell - they live for this Armageddon stuff ;)
\The Commentator//
I added alt.usenet.kooks where you belong.
Tom McDonald
Rick,
So you are both a self-deluded madman and a racist.
Enjoy the theater in your mind. I for one would pay for a short
tour, but wouldn't live there for all the money in the world.
Tom McDonald
Doktor DynaSoar
And I think they're cute. Can I keep them?
\The Commentator//
You have to clean up after them.
Rick Sobie
> So you are both a self-deluded madman and a racist.
>
> Enjoy the theater in your mind. I for one would pay for a short
> tour, but wouldn't live there for all the money in the world.
>
> Tom McDonald
I think to gain the proper perspective you need to first understand what
happened
on earth, and why things are the way they are. In lieu of actually seeing a
working
cosmic governing system you don't have anything to go on or compare to.
The people who have power in this world, have had power since time
immemorial,
and have kept it secret, by using that power. That technology which came
with
them from the stars, and yes, I am not fooling in any way shape or form,
they
came from inside the moon. That is why caucasians are light skinned.
They wrote the Bible. They use sofisticated means, to control the masses.
They wrote the Bible and their rendition of God and gods in the Bible are a
direct
result of the fact that have broken universal law and know it. They know how
much
trouble they are in, and basically are behind every debunking effort you see
on the Internet on TV and in the media etc.
Their own ideals, of absolute power rules absolutely is based on a military
dictum.
With ease they manipulate the masses via the education system, and academia,
and
control the world banks, the monetary system, the militaries, and the
governments.
Rarely do they poke their heads up, because they set up a self supporting
system that
preserves them in luxury and has since money was invented.
They had no need to do anything but maintain the staus quo. And their regard
for
humanity as being not of their bloodline and thus just so much walking
machinery or
expendible biomass water transportation containers, is a result of their own
egos, and
their own belief system based on a false religion they created for
themselves millions of
years ago. When disaster struct the moonship, and they survived.
So you hear about the shadow government, and you hear about black budgets,
and
you hear alot of things, but they are sitting above that.
Mind control is not just accomplished with machines, it can be accomplished
with
societal programming and fear through religious doctrine, whih plays on the
insecurity
of the people.
The only rulers here have been bad ones - on the large scale. There have
been smaller
happy moments in history, but what we see now, is the direct affect, of a
planned
disertion of the moon, to move into bases deep under the earth, in hopes of
surviving
when the moon runs out of power, and careens into the earth. Which looks
like it will
take place before 2015.
And Tom, your insults merely betray your lack of intelligence.
The Saxist
.............
I got nothing.
--The Saxist
#616 on the "864 Greatest Things of All Time" list
Tied for 4th Best Poster in RSPW - 2003 RSPW Poster Awards
"When someone asks you...if you're a God...you say 'YES!!!!!'"
Rick Sobie
"The Saxist" <imas...@aol.comSHOKNAWE> wrote in message
news:20040215205337...@mb-m10.aol.com...
> >The moon is a spacecraft, which housed the original caucasion race.
>
> .............
>
> I got nothing.
>
If you are trying to say you fold, me thinks we have yet begun to fold.
Well keep your eye on the sky, I am thinking that at some point,
we are going to find out just what *is* inside the moon itself,
when we take one in the face.
But archaeologically speaking, what the heck was a triceratops doing
in Peru, found rotted, not fosilized, and has anyone a link to the wooden
post reportedly found in India last year, which had some ancient markings on
it,
which was touted as perhaps the earliest written script?
t(nospam)kavanagh
Do we really beleive anything coming out of a wwf/prowrestling ng? Like
we beleive wwf is sport!
tk
Nemesis
with the help of a thousand monkeys banging on keyboards, was finally
able to type out the following:
>>> I got nothing.
>>>
>>
>>If you are trying to say you fold, me thinks we have yet begun to fold.
>
>
>
> No, I'm trying to say the amount of jokes going through my head are so
>numerous, I can't get one out, ya kook.
>
>
You're in better shape than me.
My mind is a blank thinking of a comeback to something like this.
--
Nemesis
ICQ #4610826
CrossfaceWalls
******
"Asian diseases just don't come knocking on your door, folks. Unless you're
Neil Bush." - Bill Maher
Proud member of the B.O.B.
Squad_3670
news:u08030dj1sj3cl0c7...@4ax.com...
> The moon is a spacecraft, which housed the original caucasion race.
>
>
> It was struct by an asteroid in the south pole of the moon
> and incapacitated. There was a flood when the inner water jacket
> burst, then a mutiny, then some abandoned ship and arrived
> in Sumeria. Developed Mesopotamia, and Judeo Christianity
> et al.
>
> 2000 years ago, they calculated how much power they had left,
> and how long they could sustain their orbit.
>
> Then they wrote a book, called Revelations.
>
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
>
If you can keep this going for a week or so you've got my vote for best
new RSPW gimmick.
At least it's more imaginative than I love HHH or something like that...
Zombie Matador
"Rick Sobie" <rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:u08030dj1sj3cl0c7...@4ax.com...
> The moon is a spacecraft, which housed the original caucasion race.
>
> Some are still inside it. It is an intergalactic craft.
>
> It was struct by an asteroid in the south pole of the moon
> and incapacitated. There was a flood when the inner water jacket
> burst, then a mutiny, then some abandoned ship and arrived
> in Sumeria. Developed Mesopotamia, and Judeo Christianity
> et al.
>
> 2000 years ago, they calculated how much power they had left,
> and how long they could sustain their orbit.
>
> Then they wrote a book, called Revelations.
GEEZUS!!! Is it a work or is he serious?
Zombie Matador
"Squad_3670" <notv...@email.adr> wrote in message
news:w4XXb.2735$t16.2...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
I think this post is by Jim Hellwig.
Bean Fried Pork
contradict what is said on your page or don't even work. Me thinks you are
a disinformant. K()()K.
-Beans
Rick Sobie
> Rick Sobie wrote:
> So you are both a self-deluded madman and a racist.
>
And besides David, what are you so 'hung up' about race for anyways?
So the king of the Jews doesn't look Jewish. So what! They will understand.
Come on you have dead to raise and things of that nature. Lets go chop chop.
And don't forget they will probably want to see you fly as well.
And no, I don't think they will buy that Dali Lama reincarnates and it is
like
that story. But they might. If you show them the inside of the moon.
You know that place you told them was heaven. Before they were transported
down to Mesopotamia, in search of the tree of life and all that.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/P..._Armageddon.htm
Oh, incidentally, I ran into a few more that missed their mark, and landed
in Peru.
Allow me to translate for you...
Here is a rough translation of the Nazca line Peru Geoglyphs,
pictured here...
http://www.labyrinthina.com/nazca.htm
if you are interested...
It reads:
"Thanks alot, there are giant frickin spiders down here,
we found rats and bats and elephants but no unicorns,
and where the heck is the tree of life?! That you said
we would find, when we went through the maze, in the
tunnels underground in the mothership, and went through
the stargate(transporter). We have surveyed the entire area."
> Enjoy the theater in your mind. I for one would pay for a short
> tour, but wouldn't live there for all the money in the world.
>
> Tom McDonald
>
Well if you are referring to the inside of the terraformed moon, in which
the 7 root
races were transported to earth, without their even knowing they were in a
spacecraft,
then I would agree. There are some nice places, but the noise will drive you
mad
sometimes.
Mount Olympus - as seen in these Ica stones -, now that, is a nice tourist
location.
http://www.labyrinthina.com/ica.htm
But bring ear protection. Industrial quality ear protection. You know like
the Sony headphones which generate an equal frequency to quiet background
noise and ringing. Loud and persistent ringing, as if you were in a titanium
spacemoon which lost its acoustic protection when the water jacket inner
hull burst in the great flood. Some great flood. The water is 2 feet deep.
Anyways. There's your ship. If you need a hand getting it operational
let me know. King David, or should I say Captain David, or is it
Major Tom, these days, anyways once a Gator always a Gator or so
they say.
-*-
Ciao
Rick Sobie
"Bean Fried Pork" <nos...@ilikecheese.net> wrote in message
news:qsXXb.28411$hR.7...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Your webpage page greatly distorts Titor and many of the links either
> contradict what is said on your page or don't even work. Me thinks you
are
> a disinformant. K()()K.
> -Beans
It is a work in progress, and so as to not frighten the natives, one must at
times
appear as kookish. Savvy?
Carl R. Osterwald
<rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> wrote:
> "Tom McDonald" <tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> wrote in message
> news:102vge0...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Rick Sobie wrote:
> > So you are both a self-deluded madman and a racist.
> >
>
> And besides David, what are you so 'hung up' about race for anyways?
Earth to Sobie, his name is Tom, not David.
Wrong. He was talking about your grip on reality.
What is your evidence for a hollow moon?
>
> Mount Olympus - as seen in these Ica stones -, now that, is a nice tourist
> location.
> http://www.labyrinthina.com/ica.htm
>
> But bring ear protection. Industrial quality ear protection. You know like
> the Sony headphones which generate an equal frequency to quiet background
> noise and ringing. Loud and persistent ringing, as if you were in a titanium
> spacemoon which lost its acoustic protection when the water jacket inner
> hull burst in the great flood. Some great flood. The water is 2 feet deep.
>
> Anyways. There's your ship. If you need a hand getting it operational
> let me know. King David, or should I say Captain David, or is it
> Major Tom, these days, anyways once a Gator always a Gator or so
> they say.
You have a major problem differentiating between fiction and reality.
-=-=-=-=-
Official AFA-B Bully, Pest, and Gummint Disinformation Agent
Rick Sobie
"Bean Fried Pork" <nos...@ilikecheese.net> wrote in message
news:qsXXb.28411$hR.7...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> contradict what is said on your page or don't even work. Me thinks you
are
> a disinformant. K()()K.
> -Beans
>
I fixed of few of those links for you, but if you are referring to the fact
that
the Naval Space Command website link to Tycho crater, has gone offline,
the that would probably be because
1) The girlie boys can't stand the heat
or because I recently made this remark...
2) "It is very sad to hear tha the Navy jammed the signal from the
discovery of a temple of Apollo on the floor of the Atlantic ocean,
when they attempted to transmit images of the find,
from their submersibles.
There is an accountant. This I know. I am not an accountant.
But I know there is one. And that sort of thing I am sure,
has a column all its own."
based on this report:
[quote...
In the September/October issue of Ancient American magazine, there is a
brief article
entitled 'U. S. Navy Atlantis Cover-up?' It says that on September 7, 2001,
a team
from Spain and the U. S. looking for oil have been "250 miles southwest of
the Azores
equipped with bathescape and two submersibles researching a 90-kilometer
ledge
with a central temple supported by three stands of nine pillars about 3 feet
in diameter
supporting a flat stone roof about 20 feet wide and 30 feet long. There are
the remains
of five circular canals and bridges, plus four rings of structures like the
temple in
between. It is roughly 2,800 feet deep in the Mid-Atlantic Trench and stable
at this
time." According to the researchers, when they tried to send photographic
images
from the site, their signals were jammed by a U. S. Naval exercise nearby,
perhaps
inadvertently.
That sounds very much like a temple of apollo 2,800 feet below the surface
of the
ocean, sitting intact, still standing.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/575720/posts
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/732108/posts
end quote]
in a public forum.
But funny they never seem to pay any attention when I say things like of all
the
military branches they have been the most cooperative and most honorable
of men.
Well I hereby retract that statement. They are apparently a bunch a girlie
boys.
As far as the rest of the links, if that is not enough to get you dto do a
little
of your own research well go watch TV then.
> > 2000 years ago, they calculated how much power they had left,
> > and how long they could sustain their orbit.
> >
> > Then they wrote a book, called Revelations.
> >
> > http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
As for the woman who approached me in alucid dream and said she was a
martian scientist and so I said, then you must know the leader of the
Martians and she said nothing, the leader is Wando Li.
And he is the figurehead of the Catholics, which are descendants of his
ancient
race. From Mars? I don't think so.
The negatives? Same only spiritually freaked out.
You have nothing to be freaked out about.
And Hoagland, the pyramid stuff, that is Republican, military command of
the moonship.
Democrat. That was the governmental command of the moonship.
All these things go back to the universal government and where the moon is
just
another ship in the fleet.
Red- Catholic colors, red planet
White Zeus. King of the Gods and head of the universal gov.
Blue, the boys in blue, light blue. The air. and all that.
Yellow. Management. Future. etc.
Red white and blue? David - Red. Catholic. Member of the fightin' Gator
squadron. and one time pilot of the moonship lollypop.
Crest on shoulder, alien with gator face surrounded by a gold lions mane and
covered with sacred fractals.
Wizard of OZ
The gatorlike head near the transporter to frighten the natives prior to
being transported.
and etc...
Don't say I don't share info.
Thanks for the stuff about roswell BTW...
(ya bunch a girlie boys)
ta...
the Bede
green friends murder Zoogz Rift please???
"Rick Sobie" <rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:a3ZXb.525166$ts4.62107@pd7tw3no...
Rick Sobie
"Zombie Matador" <George...@dead.com> wrote in message
news:4jXXb.60374$8a5....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Do you know that when people dream, sometimes they share
dreams through the subconscious or collective unconscious and
those dreams sometimes make into maovies and popular culture.
Even people who see secret stuff sometimes dream.
Did you see the newest time machine movie, where the
moon is populated and it explodes. All over the earth?
Well it is something like that, except it might be that inside
is a dwarf star that is expected to go quasar or something
before 2015, or it might just go out, which leaves the moonship
with no power to sustain its orbit.
The Rock could make a movie outta that I am sure.
Return of the Lizard King or something. ;-)
(Cheap on topic insert. I was tempted to add a recipe as well
and add rec.arts.cookery just to show you I know how to do
the on-topic thang.)
At any rate if you are one who likes to see more than just hearsay
about movies, check out...
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
and in particular you might research some Art Bell archives and hear
about other timelines where a guy named Robert suggests that it be
towed away.
Art Bell - David Anderson - Time Travel [1of1].mp3 186,177 KB
or Steve MIB talk about breaking the news to the public.
Art Bell - Steve - MIB-TimeTraveler - (09-11-97).mp3 11,197 KB
I think we have a few years yet, but who knows for sure.
Lets not tell anyone, and not try to go in there and fix it,
and lets just let the government and the elite move into
the underground bases while we sit here and die OK?
Why not?
Ya bunch a girlie boys, you want to live forever?!
Rockboy
> The moon is a spacecraft, which housed the original caucasion race.
>
> Some are still inside it. It is an intergalactic craft.
>
> It was struct by an asteroid in the south pole of the moon
> and incapacitated. There was a flood when the inner water jacket
> burst, then a mutiny, then some abandoned ship and arrived
> in Sumeria. Developed Mesopotamia, and Judeo Christianity
> et al.
>
> 2000 years ago, they calculated how much power they had left,
> and how long they could sustain their orbit.
>
> Then they wrote a book, called Revelations.
I, for one, welcome our new lunar overlords.
--
Rockboy
You are an important part of the computer
George
> The moon is a spacecraft, which housed the original caucasion race.
Ah, Earth to Rick, we have a problem!
Rick Sobie
"Rockboy" <roc...@rockboy.net> wrote in message
news:bp0Yb.13904$Ff2.359@clgrps12...
lol...I second that emotion.
Carl R. Osterwald
<rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> wrote:
Spreading your fantasies into new corners of usenet now, Rick? No one
biting in sci.astro any longer?
Rick Sobie
" George" <Geo...@george.net> wrote in message
news:i43Yb.3038$c14....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
What you mean we earthman.
~Iñcüßü§~
Usenet posters to stop posting now and let me show you what a real
Usenet poster posts like. Now Hit My Music........:
>Do you know that when people dream, sometimes they share
>dreams through the subconscious or collective unconscious and
>those dreams sometimes make into maovies and popular culture.
>Even people who see secret stuff sometimes dream.
Trish Stratus shares my sexual dreams
>Did you see the newest time machine movie, where the
>moon is populated and it explodes. All over the earth?
>Well it is something like that, except it might be that inside
>is a dwarf star that is expected to go quasar or something
>before 2015, or it might just go out, which leaves the moonship
>with no power to sustain its orbit.
No I missed that one, but I did see a good pron where this guy
explodes. All over this chic.
Doktor DynaSoar
<Gu...@whatthekazoo.com> wrote:
Why? It's no use cleaning up after a turd. As soon as you put it back
in the cage it needs cleaned again.
Doug Weller
[SNIP]
> But archaeologically speaking, what the heck was a triceratops doing
> in Peru, found rotted, not fosilized,
Archaeologically speaking, triceratops is irrelevant. Scientifically
speaking, it's a figment of someone's imagination. A trivial one too I
would think as it doesn't show up in Google at least in a quick search.
and has anyone a link to the wooden
> post reportedly found in India last year, which had some ancient markings on
> it,
This is probably a confused memory of a piece of wood which didn't have any
writing on it and wasn't a post but was found at Cambay.
Doug
Martin Reboul
>
> "Tom McDonald" <tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> wrote in message
> news:102vge0...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Rick Sobie wrote:
> > So you are both a self-deluded madman and a racist.
> >
>
> And besides David, what are you so 'hung up' about race for anyways?
>
> So the king of the Jews doesn't look Jewish. So what! They will understand.
>
> Come on you have dead to raise and things of that nature. Lets go chop chop.
>
> And don't forget they will probably want to see you fly as well.
>
> And no, I don't think they will buy that Dali Lama reincarnates and it is
> like
> that story. But they might. If you show them the inside of the moon.
> You know that place you told them was heaven. Before they were transported
> down to Mesopotamia, in search of the tree of life and all that.
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/P..._Armageddon.htm
>
> Oh, incidentally, I ran into a few more that missed their mark, and landed
> in Peru.
Rick, you may have unlocked an ancient mystery that has been intriguing
mankind for many years. Is it possible that some of these travellers landed
elsewhere, possibly further north - say in the area we now call Minnesota?
Would they have been equipped with stone cutting equipment. This is very
important, maybe the vital breakthrough we have all been hoping for...
> Allow me to translate for you...
> Here is a rough translation of the Nazca line Peru Geoglyphs,
> pictured here...
> http://www.labyrinthina.com/nazca.htm
>
> if you are interested...
>
> It reads:
>
> "Thanks alot, there are giant frickin spiders down here,
> we found rats and bats and elephants but no unicorns,
> and where the heck is the tree of life?! That you said
> we would find, when we went through the maze, in the
> tunnels underground in the mothership, and went through
> the stargate(transporter). We have surveyed the entire area."
I always knew they weren't runways. Well done!
> > Enjoy the theater in your mind. I for one would pay for a short
> > tour, but wouldn't live there for all the money in the world.
> >
> > Tom McDonald
> >
>
> Well if you are referring to the inside of the terraformed moon, in which
> the 7 root
> races were transported to earth, without their even knowing they were in a
> spacecraft,
> then I would agree. There are some nice places, but the noise will drive you
> mad
> sometimes.
Couldn't they fix the motors? Surely they aren't still trying? How do they
work BTW?
> Mount Olympus - as seen in these Ica stones -, now that, is a nice tourist
> location.
> http://www.labyrinthina.com/ica.htm
>
> But bring ear protection. Industrial quality ear protection. You know like
> the Sony headphones which generate an equal frequency to quiet background
> noise and ringing. Loud and persistent ringing, as if you were in a titanium
> spacemoon which lost its acoustic protection when the water jacket inner
> hull burst in the great flood. Some great flood. The water is 2 feet deep.
I shall bear that in mind should I visit. Two feet deep... you amaze me. Is
this at the bottom, or the top? You'd have thought they had bilge pumps on a
vessel that size.
> Anyways. There's your ship. If you need a hand getting it operational
> let me know. King David, or should I say Captain David, or is it
> Major Tom, these days, anyways once a Gator always a Gator or so
> they say.
He's not a junkie too is he?
Cheers
Martin
George
I think its Rick as has the problem.... It's the man in the moon that's thrown him
Rick Sobie
"Doug Weller" <dwe...@ramtops.thisremove.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tj6oinnzolwd.ystf9hw75ir3$.dlg@40tude.net...
Hi Doug,
I heard about the piece of wood at Cambay, and all that
contravercy, and you know me, I wish it was that piece of wood,
but no, this looked like a post, and had an eye on it and
several other markings which looked somewhat Egyptian.
But I cannot remember which news service I saw the article
on, and I checked CNN and BBC and then even stooped so
low as to check Rense.com but to no avail, so I guess
I must have dreamed it, as I am sure you would have
remembered it.
The triceratops was mentioned by another person and she didn't
give a reference, but what is your opinion of this...
http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/newsletters/37325/0/collapsed
/5/o/1
I am doing some research for a kook book I am considering writing.
Rick Sobie
"Martin Reboul" <mar...@SPAMFUKreboul1471.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c0rgc3$v2k$2...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
snip
>Rick wrote
> > down to Mesopotamia, in search of the tree of life and all that.
> > http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/P..._Armageddon.htm
> >
> > Oh, incidentally, I ran into a few more that missed their mark, and
landed
> > in Peru.
>
> Rick, you may have unlocked an ancient mystery that has been intriguing
> mankind for many years. Is it possible that some of these travellers
landed
> elsewhere, possibly further north - say in the area we now call Minnesota?
> Would they have been equipped with stone cutting equipment. This is very
> important, maybe the vital breakthrough we have all been hoping for...
>
>
I think that Minnesota is positively rife with them. But I don't know if
they
cut stone or just chew it in Minnesota. They're the tough ones, the
other kind, you don't want to mess with them.
> > Allow me to translate for you...
> > Here is a rough translation of the Nazca line Peru Geoglyphs,
> > pictured here...
> > http://www.labyrinthina.com/nazca.htm
> >
> > if you are interested...
> >
> > It reads:
> >
> > "Thanks alot, there are giant frickin spiders down here,
> > we found rats and bats and elephants but no unicorns,
> > and where the heck is the tree of life?! That you said
> > we would find, when we went through the maze, in the
> > tunnels underground in the mothership, and went through
> > the stargate(transporter). We have surveyed the entire area."
>
> I always knew they weren't runways. Well done!
>
>
> > > Enjoy the theater in your mind. I for one would pay for a short
> > > tour, but wouldn't live there for all the money in the world.
> > >
> > > Tom McDonald
> > >
> >
> > Well if you are referring to the inside of the terraformed moon, in
which
> > the 7 root races were transported to earth, without their even knowing
>> they were in a spacecraft, then I would agree. There are some nice
>> places, but the noise will drive you mad sometimes.
>
> Couldn't they fix the motors? Surely they aren't still trying? How do they
> work BTW?
Type 3 civilization, harness a white dwarf, make him run on a treadmill.
Its the singing though that gets you. "hi ho hi ho." <<<shiver>>>
www.mkaku.org and read all about it.
>
> > Mount Olympus - as seen in these Ica stones -, now that, is a nice
>>tourist location.
> > http://www.labyrinthina.com/ica.htm
> >
> > But bring ear protection. Industrial quality ear protection. You know
like
> > the Sony headphones which generate an equal frequency to quiet
>>background noise and ringing. Loud and persistent ringing, as if you were
>>in a titanium spacemoon which lost its acoustic protection when the water
>>jacket inner hull burst in the great flood. Some great flood. The water
is
>>2 feet deep.
>
> I shall bear that in mind should I visit. Two feet deep... you amaze me.
Is
> this at the bottom, or the top? You'd have thought they had bilge pumps
>on a vessel that size.
Well yes, it has the diameter of America actually, so it is quite roomy
inside. And gravity so the water stays on the ground. It is not completely
covered but only in areas. I think with the impact of the asteroid in
the south pole of the moon, that shifted some of the dirt inside to one
area.
And created some higher areas. But the mountain itself really sticks
out.
In the Ica stones, they show a small mountain range but I remember
only one mountain. And it looks peculiar. If it wasn't so high,
and out of place it might look like Monaco. It doesn't look like
rock, it looks like dirt. But at least a mile high. The area is long
since overgrown, with roads and a small town at the base of the
mountain. You can go up the mountain, and there is a subdivision
up there, a nice one, but it looks laregely abandoned.
Looks like rural America with school and trees etc.
Of all the neighborhoods that one looks the nicest.
But we were on the mountain camping and checking out some
small caves and the ringing started and the people I was with
became confused distressed. I was not affected because I was there
out of body in astral form.
> He's not a junkie too is he?
No, at least I don't think so. I think he is just a somewhat ordinary man
who has found himself in extraordinary circumstances.
I suppose the oddest part of this inner moon business for me, is that
I had been going there in lucid dreams for years, and never really
knew which ship it was. I though it was Steve's ship by Saturn.
And anyone can check the archives or I could from over the years
and you will see that was what I thought.
Then after that just last year, I actually found an mp3 from an old art
Bell show, and there was Steve MIB, trying to make some disclosure.
Then I investigated further and came to the realization it wasn't _his ship,
it was our moon I thought his ship was like a large blue boat.
Like in the 5th Element.
I was mistaken and wasn't aware of the battle planets. (death stars)
I would not have guessed there would have been any here even after
seeing Star Wars because this does not seem like any sort of dangerous
or warring area.. I did not know they were used for transporting colonies
of settlers. Then it began to dawn on me I had been astral travelling
to our moon. You wouldn't expect it was hollow.
Then I found out that it had this huge crater on the south pole, and that
explained the mountain.
Then I found the the link to the Ica stones, and that confirmed my
suspicions.
You see the Ica stones are quite old. At least the 16th century,
and you cannot see the south pole crater from earth,
but they depict the impact, and the inner moon, with the mountains,
and moreso, they depict Robert and Harold, who I have spoken with
of also for years, but just briefly in dreams and I know them, but
they never disclose what they are doing, we just discuss what goes on on
earth. Also in the Ica stones there appears to be an eye of God,
and that is a symbol of our religion, and what looks like maybe a
book, perhaps the scriptures. The image of Harold looks wierd though.
They depict him with a black mask or something.
I need to find some better pictures of those Ica stones to see what
else they knew.
A person named Robert also called into Art Bell, and discussed
the moon, said in a differenmt timeline, Art broadcasted his show
from there. This Robert was a person whose job it was to investigate
time lines. Now retired. Was he believeable? Yes. Can his story be verified?
No. But any info on this subject is worth checking out.
Far fetched? No not at all. Mount Olympus and the Demigods, it is
all throughout religious and philosophical writings. Greek, Indian,
Hindu, etc...And plenty of evidence leads to exactly that.
It was Robert on the ship, who has said, there is no future,
past about 2015, or it might be 2012, or maybe sooner,
but he is insistent. So I think there is a reason that disclosure
needs to be hurried along. Info is coming out in dribbles,
because they believe the people cannot handle the truth.
I do not agree. I think people are resilient, and prefer the truth.
Carl R. Osterwald
In article <UzdYb.533071$X%5.79623@pd7tw2no>, Rick Sobie
<rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> wrote:
Martin Reboul
"t(nospam)kavanagh" <"tkavanag"@(nospam)indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:c0p953$1ln$2...@hood.uits.indiana.edu...
> Rick Sobie wrote:
> >
> > "The Saxist" <imas...@aol.comSHOKNAWE> wrote in message
> > news:20040215205337...@mb-m10.aol.com...
> > > >The moon is a spacecraft, which housed the original caucasion race.
> > >
> > >
> > > I got nothing.
> > >
> >
> > If you are trying to say you fold, me thinks we have yet begun to fold.
> >
> > we are going to find out just what *is* inside the moon itself,
> > when we take one in the face.
> >
> > But archaeologically speaking, what the heck was a triceratops doing
> > post reportedly found in India last year, which had some ancient markings
on
> > it,
>
> Do we really beleive anything coming out of a wwf/prowrestling ng? Like
> we beleive wwf is sport!
That really is stretching the bounds of credulity!
Philip Deitiker
<rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> did some sarious thank'n and
scribbled:
>The moon is a space
. . . . . . . . . . .
>called Revelations.
>
>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
Open a box of fruitloops and grap one, then hold it in front
of your face will looking into a mirror. Guess which one
objects in front of you has more intelligence.
Rick Sobie
"Philip Deitiker" <Nopd...@att.net.spam > wrote in message
news:jb53305n1va6k19u3...@4ax.com...
You must be French.
I have one for you.
What goes up a hill with 4 legs and down a hill with three?
Doug Weller
> The triceratops was mentioned by another person and she didn't
> give a reference, but what is your opinion of this...
>
> http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/newsletters/37325/0/collapsed
> /5/o/1
A hoax cobbled from other hoaxes. There is no such area of ash, no
archaeologist known named Francis Taylor, no radioactive skeletons, the
vitrified forts are late Iron Age (ie first millennium AD), etc.
Lonar crater:
http://lonarcrater.com/research_nayak.htm
Doug
Doug Weller
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 00:13:57 GMT, Rick Sobie wrote:
>
>> The triceratops was mentioned by another person and she didn't
>> give a reference, but what is your opinion of this...
>>
>> http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/newsletters/37325/0/collapsed
>> /5/o/1
>
> A hoax cobbled from other hoaxes. There is no such area of ash, no
> archaeologist known named Francis Taylor, no radioactive skeletons, the
> vitrified forts are late Iron Age (ie first millennium AD), et
A few more points.
rom Usenet (sci.archeology) Message-ID: <3j4l31$n...@dekalb.DC.PeachNet.EDU>
"I grew up near Mohenjodaro and visited it often as a child. The ground
isn't fused. It's very dusty! The walls are not fused. The bricks are
not even glassified. Most are sundried bricks. Some are fired in kilns,
clearly similar to the kilns still in use in the area. Were it
glassified and fused, there would not be the problem with the water table
and salinity which is decaying the ruins rapidly."
Elsewhere Bernard pointed out that the actual affects of nuclear weapons on
skeletons (something we have relatively recent experience of) does not
leave radioactive skeletons behind. The bodies are either destroyed by
blast, killed by gamma rays or burned to a cinder.
Damian Walter wrote: "In his 1962 article, "The Mythical Massacre at
Mohenjo-daro" (Expedition, Vol. VI, no. 3), George Frankin Dales writes:
"What of these skeletal remains that have taken on such undeserved
importance? Nine years of extensive excavations at Mohenjo-daro (1922-31) -
a city of three miles in circuit - yielded the total of some 37 skeletons,
or parts thereof, that can be attributed with some certainty to the period
of the Indus civilizations. Some of these were found in contorted positions
and groupings that suggest anything but orderly burials. Many are either
disarticulated or incomplete. They were all found in the area of the Lower
Town - probably the residential district. Not a single body was found
within the area of the fortified citadel where one could reasonably expect
the final defence of this thriving capital city to have been made [...]."
[bold emphasis added]"
And see this interview:
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1819/18190700.htm
" There is frequent reference in general discourse to the possibility of
malaria in India having reduced populations and thereby caused the decline
of either a state, or a society, or an area. The skeletons of people found
lying in the city of Mohenjodaro, point to their having suffered from
severe anaemia."
This might be relevant:
http://www.indianchild.com/india_nuclear_power.htm
"The Rajasthan Atomic Power Station
in Rawatbhata, India was closed
indefinitely, as of February 1995.
Moreover, environmental problems,
caused by radiation leaks, have
cropped up in communities near
Rawatbhata."
(But as I have said, there just isn't evidence for most of the claims on
that web page).
Your website quotes this:
onsider these verses from the ancient (6500 BC at the latest) Mahabharata:
...a single projectile
Charged with all the power of the Universe.
An incandescent column of smoke and flame
As bright as the thousand suns
Rose in all its splendour...
a perpendicular explosion
with its billowing smoke clouds...
...the cloud of smoke
rising after its first explosion
formed into expanding round circles
like the opening of giant parasols...
..it was an unknown weapon,
An iron thunderbolt,
A gigantic messenger of death,
Which reduced to ashes
The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.
...The corpses were so burned
As to be unrecognisable.
The hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
And the birds turned white.
I need hardly point out that the date given is as fictional as the rest.
Note however what this great website says:
http://www.uforq.asn.au/articles/indianepics.html
"In my opinion, the nadir of deceptive misrepresentation is attained not by
Leslie but by Charles Berlitz in his 1974 book The Bermuda Triangle
(chapter 8), in which occurs the following: 'A description of a special
weapon launched against an opposing army goes as follows:" thence comes
this lengthy quotation from the Mahabharata:
'A single projectile charged with all the power of the universe. An
incandescent column of smoke and flame, as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in
all its splendour…. It was an unknown weapon, and iron thunderbolt, a
gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the
Vrishnis and Andhakas…. The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognisable.
Their hair and nails fell out; pottery broke without any apparent cause,
and the birds turned white. After a few hours, all foodstuffs were
infected…. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves in
streams to wash themselves and all their equipment.'
I have reproduced this quotation exactly as it appears in Berlitz's book in
order to illustrate my point. Readers could naturally assume that Berlitz
was quoting one single passage with a few superfluous words omitted here
and there, which on face value reads like an ancient writer's account of an
atomic explosion and its aftermath. How wrong they would be. What Berlitz
has done is to collate various totally unrelated excerpts from different
chapters of the Mahabharata and weave them into one apparently seamless
fabric, but a dissection of the passages in question reveals the truth. The
front part, 'a single projectile --- all its splendour' has its origin in
Karna Parva, section 34. The second part, 'it was an unknown weapon ---
Andhakas' derives from Mausala Parva section 1, reconnecting events which
occurred no less than 36 years after the great battle which is the central
focus of the Mahabharata. A third part 'the corpses --- unrecognisable'
refers back in time to the much earlier Drona Parva section 201, and the
already mentioned Agneya weapon. The fourth part, 'the hair and nails ---
infected' leaps forward in time once again to Mausala Parva, section 2. In
the fifth part, 'to escape --- equipment,' we are time-warped back to Drona
Parva section 197. In just one paragraph, Berlitz has managed to cobble and
stich five unrelated excerpts, widely separated in both place and time, and
presented them as one coherent whole allegedly representing a nuclear
explosion. It is a totally dishonest cut and past job which does Berlitz no
credit at all." ...
"As a final parting shot, I simply cannot pass over in silence the fourth
part of the above passage, which must rank as a classic of selective
misquotation. Hair and nails falling out, birds turning white, food being
infected - all very evocative of radioactive contamination in the aftermath
of a nuclear explosion. What section 2 of the Mausala Pareva actually says,
however, paints a very different picture. The full passage is rather
lengthy, so I have presented the relevant excerpts:
'Day by day strong winds blow and many were the evil omens that arose,
awful and foreboding the destruction of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas. The
streets swarmed with rats and mice. Earthen pots showed cracks or broken
(sic) from no apparent cause. At night, the rats ad mice ate away the hair
and nails of slumbering men. --- many birds appeared, impelled by death,
that were pale of complexion but that had legs red of hue --- the
Vrishni's, committing sinful acts, were not seen to feel any shame --- they
insulted and humiliated their preceptors and seniors --- wives deceived
their husbands and husbands their wives --- the sun, whether when rising or
setting over the city, seemed to be surrounded by headless trunks of human
form. In cook rooms, upon food that was clean and well boiled were seen,
when it was served out for eating, innumerable worms of diverse kinds,'
etc.
it should be quite apparent that, as clearly and unambiguously stated at
the beginning of the passage, what we have here is yet another example of
the 'omens and portents' discussed earlier, but presented in a novel form.
Hair and nails did not fall out, they were eaten by mice. To say that white
birds appeared is quite different from birds turning white. (I am simply
analysing this passage at face value. We need not suppose that any of this
actually happened.) it is almost superfluous of me to ad that the
destruction of said Vishnis and Andhakas does not occur until two pages
after the above passages, not before it. The latter is not describing the
effects of such destruction but rather the portents which preceded it."
It's worth reading the rest of that web page. I'm saving it.
Doug
Rick Sobie
http://www.cmf.nrl.navy.mil/clementine/select_img/hires.html
http://www.cmf.nrl.navy.mil/clementine/clem_collect/tycho.html
As I said before,
of all
> the
> military branches they have been the most cooperative and most honorable
> of men.
(When is Msoft going to learn how to make a newsreader that
can properly format a message. sheesh)
"Rick Sobie" <rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:a3ZXb.525166$ts4.62107@pd7tw3no...
Rick Sobie
Thanks Doug.
Frankly I do not know what to believe anymore. There are so many
conflicting archaeological reports it seems as though everyone is fighting
to confirm their religious beliefs.
I mean stuff like this just doesn't go away no matter how hard
some people try to make it so.
Check out the anomalous maps. I know you love to blame everything on
Hapgood and Von Daniken, but these are quite telling.
http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Archeology.html
Philip Deitiker
<rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> wrote:
>You must be French.
Hardly.
>I have one for you.
>
>What goes up a hill with 4 legs and down a hill with three?
Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water.
Silly Jill forgot the pill and now they have a daughter.
Up on 4 legs, "three" come down. hah-hah.
Tom McDonald
Rick,
I made my weary way through all of the stuff on that page. If
you really wish something to be 'telling', and not fantasies of
Von Daniken or Hapgood, you might try presenting evidence that
neither of them have used. All of the items I read were either
fully understood by conventional science, or have no necessary
(or even likely) connection to the Unknown.
For an example, the site features the Kailasa Temple in Bombay.
It is said to be the largest structure ever carved from one
mass of stone, a hillside. The web page says that it is thought
to have been carved in the 8th or 9th century. I then goes on to
say:
> Pretty amazing with no
> modern tools!
If the author of the page got his dating right, these folks
would have had access to iron, perhaps even steel, tools. Given
the work done by far earlier cultures with no metal tools, or
with only copper tools, this fellow's amazement is more likely
due to ignorance, or surfeit of woo-woo-ness.
Tom McDonald
Brett Mount
<snip>
}(When is Msoft going to learn how to make a newsreader that
}can properly format a message. sheesh)
They're not.
At best, they'll redefine their formatting as the new standard.
--
Regards
Brett
"It's a swan"
Clave
<...>
> (When is Msoft going to learn how to make a newsreader that
> can properly format a message. sheesh)
Ever hear what they say about someone who blames their tools?
Jim
Doug Weller
There is more stuff like that too -- the glass bowl for instance. Or the
Baghdad 'batteries', which may or may not have been batteries but if they
were simply show that our ancestors were observant and saw what happened
when metal touched acid in certain ways.
Then there are plain lies, like the one about caucasian bones in
prehistoric North America and the nonsense about Quetzalcoatl, well known
hoaxes such as the Dropa stones, junk about dinosaur footprints, the
Palenque stuff shows up twice but once in a very confused context, etc.
Doug
Doug Weller
[SNIP]
> Hapgood and Von Daniken, but these are quite telling.
>
> http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Archeology.html
There are several articles about these maps linked to my web site, take a
look. What is telling about your url is how little the author knows about
these maps.
Doug
Tom McDonald
Doug,
When I was clicking through the site, the "dino and human
footprints together" link didn't work. I thought perhaps that
the info it linked to (probably Glen Rose) had been debunked
enough so even the site's owner couldn't keep the link with a
straight face.
I, too, was amused that the 'Palenque astronaut' showed up
twice, with the identical page; one link calling it "Mayan"
(sic), and the other calling it "Aztec".
Weary as the trip was through that fellow's perfervid gleanings,
it was indisputably amusing.
Oh, and none of it supported Rick.
Tom McDonald
Rick Sobie
> Rick Sobie wrote:
>
> > Check out the anomalous maps. I know you love to blame everything on
> > Hapgood and Von Daniken, but these are quite telling.
> >
> > http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Archeology.html
> >
> >
> Rick,
>
> I made my weary way through all of the stuff on that page. If
> you really wish something to be 'telling', and not fantasies of
> Von Daniken or Hapgood, you might try presenting evidence that
> neither of them have used. All of the items I read were either
> fully understood by conventional science, or have no necessary
> (or even likely) connection to the Unknown.
>
> For an example, the site features the Kailasa Temple in Bombay.
> It is said to be the largest structure ever carved from one
> mass of stone, a hillside. The web page says that it is thought
> to have been carved in the 8th or 9th century. I then goes on to
> say:
>
> > Pretty amazing with no
> > modern tools!
>
> If the author of the page got his dating right, these folks
> would have had access to iron, perhaps even steel, tools. Given
> the work done by far earlier cultures with no metal tools, or
> with only copper tools, this fellow's amazement is more likely
> due to ignorance, or surfeit of woo-woo-ness.
>
> Tom McDonald
>
anomalous maps. The Piri Reis map is often ridiculed as being
misinterpreted, and perhaps by itself, it could be seen as
an oddity, that was, but then when you consider that it is only
one map, that accurately charted Antartica before it was discovered,
and even charted areas under the ice, I would have to say,
that clearly archaeology today, is a sham mockery of a sham.
A dogmatic attempt by people to enforce their religious views,
and the continual pushing back in time of Jericho is yet another
example. It is not said to be thousands of years older than
Mesopotamia. So where is the cradle of civilization?
Clearly, it is in India. But that does not sit well with the Judeo
Christians who prefer to see themselves as the quote unquote
chosen ones, the privedged ones, who shall be left standing
when the rest of the unwashed uncivilized masses are smited
after the so called end times.
And doesn't that run right through society and expose the beast
itself, in the elistism and attitudes of many people in this world,
who wish to prop up the view that the Bible is the truth,
the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And for obvious
reasons. As they insist people swear oaths on it, and so it
must be seen as as somehow the ultimate truth.
Well the archaeological record does not bear this out,
inspite of continual attemps to deny what the record shows
of the history of civilization on this planet.
The webite author you mention, has little to do with the
maps presented. Although that is yet another technique
isn't it, to try to kookify, the evidence, in denial of the truth.
Rick Sobie
And based on what, do you reach the conlcusion that the Dropa stones
are a hoax? Because you do not like what they said?
I suppose because Hawass said that a Bell Ranger helicopter in the
temple at Karnac in a heiroglyph, was a rendition of a childs toy,
that all of a sudden that is a hoax as well?
Appeal to authority to make the things that do not agree with your
world view go away? That does not make sense Doug.
Occams razor.
Then there is the Saturn 5 rocket in relief, what is your explanation there?
Simply because you refuse to believe that time travel could exist
or they could perhaps see into the future, surely these things
cannot exist. I think people clearly have a mental block.
Some people are hypnotized or something because there is no other
explanation for the denial of such things other than it does not
agree with their world view or their religious based viewpoint.
And I'm sure you know the bell ranger helciopter and Saturn 5 rocket
but for those do not, it is on my website.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
And I agree, the same goes for those who wish to believe that
the pyramids are 187,000 years old. They too wish to support
their ideas.
I am more interested in the truth as it is. The facts.
That is what archaeology is supposed to be about. Not politics and
religion, and the fear of bringing forth new discoveries.
Rick Sobie
>
> Oh, and none of it supported Rick.
>
> Tom McDonald
The maps Tom.
It is funny that the people who are in charge of hiding
these things have not had the DNS servers rerouted.
That is the standard M.O isn't it?
The jig is up my friend..
The pyramids in China, with iron pipes running right through solid
rock. Go ahead debunk that one.
I don't need to post the link again, it is on my website.
If it was a Russain pyramid, Oh well, you would say, Oh those
Russians are always making up stories. I am beginning to think
that Ed Conrad is right and hidden in the Smithsoinian is
all manner of things which have been buried, but more likely they
merely destroy them. Like they shred documents today, and
and just as they burned the libraries of the past.
Recently I have heard people try to deny that the land bridge
between India and Sri Lanka exists! Now that is really putting your
head in the sand.
Rick Sobie
Oh at least make the case and post a link. You don't expect me to debunk
it myself do you?
Rick Sobie
"Clave" <ClaviusFair...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
news:243e01c0f9a76a5c...@news.teranews.com...
The other day, while I was getting the blue screen of death,
with Windows 2000, and it was dumping the memory to disk.
As it was dumping the memory to disk, it crashed.
It crashed while crashing.
An anology to a tool like that, would be a drill that attacks you
as soon as you plug it in. Yes, I am blaming these tools.
Clave
>
> "Clave" <ClaviusFair...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
> news:243e01c0f9a76a5c...@news.teranews.com...
> > "Rick Sobie" <rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> wrote in message
> > news:reDYb.547246$X%5.141908@pd7tw2no...
> >
> > <...>
> >
> > > (When is Msoft going to learn how to make a newsreader that
> > > can properly format a message. sheesh)
> >
> > Ever hear what they say about someone who blames their tools?
>
> with Windows 2000, and it was dumping the memory to disk.
> As it was dumping the memory to disk, it crashed.
> It crashed while crashing.
>
> An anology to a tool like that, would be a drill that attacks you
> as soon as you plug it in. Yes, I am blaming these tools.
What bullshit. You get called blaming your newsreader for your own inability to
properly format a post, and suddenly you're blaming the operating system, which
has nothing to do with it.
You're pathetic, and not just for that.
Jim
Tom McDonald
Rick,
It might be. Nothing you've written or linked to in all the
time I've paid attention to you makes that case in any useful
way. But I suspect you really don't care.
>
> A dogmatic attempt by people to enforce their religious views,
Explain this. Whose religious views do you think are being
enforced, upon whom, and where?
> and the continual pushing back in time of Jericho is yet another
> example. It is not said to be thousands of years older than
> Mesopotamia. So where is the cradle of civilization?
There are lots of Neolithic communities. Jericho gets press
mostly because it's been more-or-less continuously inhabited for
thousands of years. You might look into, for instance, Catal
Hoyouk in present-day highland Turkey. Much more interesting
site, IMHO, but also not the center of what might be called a
Cradle of Civilization.
BTW, the term "The Cradle of Civilization" was originally
conceived by Europeans for what they thought was the single place
from which all higher culture came. Today, it's clear that
civilization (in the technical meaning used by archaeologists and
anthropologists) had several 'cradles' in the Old World, and at
least two in the New.
>
> Clearly, it is in India.
Please make your case for this. Simple assertion won't cut it.
Also please make the case that there was _one_ 'cradle of
civilization'; that I'd pay to see.
But that does not sit well with the Judeo
> Christians who prefer to see themselves as the quote unquote
> chosen ones, the privedged ones, who shall be left standing
> when the rest of the unwashed uncivilized masses are smited
> after the so called end times.
Hookay. This should be good.
Prove it. Specifically, prove that modern archaeology is in the
grip of rabid Judeo-Christians.
>
> And doesn't that run right through society and expose the beast
> itself, in the elistism and attitudes of many people in this world,
> who wish to prop up the view that the Bible is the truth,
> the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And for obvious
> reasons. As they insist people swear oaths on it, and so it
> must be seen as as somehow the ultimate truth.
Have you met any creationists or other fundamentalist
Christians? They would assert the very opposite about modern
science.
But you know that, and you're just funnin' now.
>
> Well the archaeological record does not bear this out,
> inspite of continual attemps to deny what the record shows
> of the history of civilization on this planet.
Prove it.
>
> The webite author you mention, has little to do with the
> maps presented. Although that is yet another technique
> isn't it, to try to kookify, the evidence, in denial of the truth.
And of course you ignored Doug's post saying that he had
discussions about the maps on his website? So you have great
zeal for truth, and boundless energy in its pursuit, except when
you may be exposed to it?
Read about the maps on Doug's site. Then come back and talk
about it. Until then, you seem far more willfully ignorant than
any mainstream archaeologist.
Tom McDonald
Rick Sobie
> > Actually Tom, if you read the text above, I was talking about the
> > anomalous maps. The Piri Reis map is often ridiculed as being
> > misinterpreted, and perhaps by itself, it could be seen as
> > an oddity, that was, but then when you consider that it is only
> > one map, that accurately charted Antartica before it was discovered,
> > and even charted areas under the ice, I would have to say,
> > that clearly archaeology today, is a sham mockery of a sham.
>
> Rick,
>
> It might be. Nothing you've written or linked to in all the
> time I've paid attention to you makes that case in any useful
> way. But I suspect you really don't care.
> >
Oh please, helicopter heiroglyphs, maps of antartica under the ice,
saturn 5 rockets in heiroglyphs, ancient pyramids in China with iron
pipes running right through solid rock, and monkey men, as
stated in the ancient Hinu texts, showing Rama's boys, fighting
a triceratops, with swords, in cave art of India.
That is nothing?
> > A dogmatic attempt by people to enforce their religious views,
>
> Explain this. Whose religious views do you think are being
> enforced, upon whom, and where?
>
That is self evident wouldn't you say? But let us not foll ourselves
into believeing that it is only organized religion, nay, they are merely
pawns in the game as well. For they make the best excuse
imaginable don't they. All you have to do is say that the poor religious
people will go into a coma if they see this artifact, therefore it
_must be destroyed.
> > and the continual pushing back in time of Jericho is yet another
> > example. It is not said to be thousands of years older than
> > Mesopotamia. So where is the cradle of civilization?
>
> There are lots of Neolithic communities. Jericho gets press
> mostly because it's been more-or-less continuously inhabited for
> thousands of years. You might look into, for instance, Catal
> Hoyouk in present-day highland Turkey. Much more interesting
> site, IMHO, but also not the center of what might be called a
> Cradle of Civilization.
>
> BTW, the term "The Cradle of Civilization" was originally
> conceived by Europeans for what they thought was the single place
> from which all higher culture came. Today, it's clear that
> civilization (in the technical meaning used by archaeologists and
> anthropologists) had several 'cradles' in the Old World, and at
> least two in the New.
>
> >
> > Clearly, it is in India.
>
> Please make your case for this. Simple assertion won't cut it.
> Also please make the case that there was _one_ 'cradle of
> civilization'; that I'd pay to see.
Well I suppose the definition of civilization might be something that
a person could dispute, but I would suggest that to organize a million
people to build a land bridge, from Sri Lanka to India, should
qualify as civilized behaviour. They would have to be organized
in order to embark on a mega project of this magnitude.
Surely approx. 2 million years ago, predates anything Judeo Christianity
could make claim to.
>
> But that does not sit well with the Judeo
> > Christians who prefer to see themselves as the quote unquote
> > chosen ones, the privedged ones, who shall be left standing
> > when the rest of the unwashed uncivilized masses are smited
> > after the so called end times.
>
> Hookay. This should be good.
>
You laugh now, but keep in mind the gnashing of teeth. Although it
might be a rather brief period of gnashing if for instance the dwarf
star inside the moonship goes quasar.
> Prove it. Specifically, prove that modern archaeology is in the
> grip of rabid Judeo-Christians.
>
Oh please, they are all around you right now. I can hear them calling
out to you for answers. And you have taken up their cause lest why
would you be denying such clear evidence?
> >
> > And doesn't that run right through society and expose the beast
> > itself, in the elistism and attitudes of many people in this world,
> > who wish to prop up the view that the Bible is the truth,
> > the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And for obvious
> > reasons. As they insist people swear oaths on it, and so it
> > must be seen as as somehow the ultimate truth.
>
> Have you met any creationists or other fundamentalist
> Christians? They would assert the very opposite about modern
> science.
>
> But you know that, and you're just funnin' now.
>
I am funnin, yes, but also making my case. There is no need
for me to show the truth which is self evident to any thinking
person. in an angry way. I merely hope to open the eyes
of the poor souls blinded by established academia and their rigid
grip on the minds of our young and so impressionable youth.
> >
> > Well the archaeological record does not bear this out,
> > inspite of continual attemps to deny what the record shows
> > of the history of civilization on this planet.
>
> Prove it.
See the Ica stones, which depict and etc. And beyond that if
a single helicopter heiroglyph, is not sufficient, then what
could possibly constitute proof that the truth is being kept from
the people?
Sunken cities perhaps? Under over 2,000 feet of sea water.
At what point do we admit that 2,000 feet is quite deep for an ancient
city to be found?
>
> >
> > The webite author you mention, has little to do with the
> > maps presented. Although that is yet another technique
> > isn't it, to try to kookify, the evidence, in denial of the truth.
>
> And of course you ignored Doug's post saying that he had
> discussions about the maps on his website? So you have great
> zeal for truth, and boundless energy in its pursuit, except when
> you may be exposed to it?
I did see Doug evade the subject and do the side slip and pretend
to have information to dispute the facts if that is what you are referring
to.
>
> Read about the maps on Doug's site. Then come back and talk
> about it. Until then, you seem far more willfully ignorant than
> any mainstream archaeologist.
>
> Tom McDonald
>
Doug will present his evidence if he is a serious researcher.
Rick Sobie
Rick Sobie
"Philip Deitiker" <Nopd...@att.net.spam> wrote in message
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V1E721477
Tom McDonald
> "Tom McDonald" <tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> wrote in message
> news:10388k5...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Rick Sobie wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Tom McDonald" <tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>>http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Archeology.html
>>>
>>>Actually Tom, if you read the text above, I was talking about the
>>>anomalous maps. The Piri Reis map is often ridiculed as being
>>>misinterpreted, and perhaps by itself, it could be seen as
>>>an oddity, that was, but then when you consider that it is only
>>>one map, that accurately charted Antartica before it was discovered,
>>>and even charted areas under the ice, I would have to say,
>>>that clearly archaeology today, is a sham mockery of a sham.
>>
>>Rick,
>>
>>It might be. Nothing you've written or linked to in all the
>>time I've paid attention to you makes that case in any useful
>>way. But I suspect you really don't care.
>>
>
> Oh please, helicopter heiroglyphs, maps of antartica under the ice,
> saturn 5 rockets in heiroglyphs, ancient pyramids in China with iron
> pipes running right through solid rock, and monkey men, as
> stated in the ancient Hinu texts, showing Rama's boys, fighting
> a triceratops, with swords, in cave art of India.
>
> That is nothing?
Rick,
All that stuff is at very best extremely disputed; at worst, is
demonstrated to be wrongly interpreted. So, it's pretty close to
nothing; and none make the necessary case in any useful way.
>
>
>>>A dogmatic attempt by people to enforce their religious views,
>>
>>Explain this. Whose religious views do you think are being
>>enforced, upon whom, and where?
>>
>
>
> That is self evident wouldn't you say? But let us not foll ourselves
> into believeing that it is only organized religion, nay, they are merely
> pawns in the game as well. For they make the best excuse
> imaginable don't they. All you have to do is say that the poor religious
> people will go into a coma if they see this artifact, therefore it
> _must be destroyed.
So you got nothin'. I thought so.
LOL! You mean the sandbar? Please point me to the scientific
evidence that: (1) it exists as a true 'land bridge', and (2) was
man-made.
>
>
>>But that does not sit well with the Judeo
>>
>>>Christians who prefer to see themselves as the quote unquote
>>>chosen ones, the privedged ones, who shall be left standing
>>>when the rest of the unwashed uncivilized masses are smited
>>>after the so called end times.
>>
>>Hookay. This should be good.
>>
>
>
> You laugh now, but keep in mind the gnashing of teeth. Although it
> might be a rather brief period of gnashing if for instance the dwarf
> star inside the moonship goes quasar.
LOL! You are truly creative. You've even created your own
physics and cosmology. Turns out it doesn't correspond well with
the physics and cosmology that really works. But do keep making
your mud pies. Chin chin.
>
>
>>Prove it. Specifically, prove that modern archaeology is in the
>>grip of rabid Judeo-Christians.
>>
>
> Oh please, they are all around you right now. I can hear them calling
> out to you for answers. And you have taken up their cause lest why
> would you be denying such clear evidence?
So you got nothin'. Figures.
>
>
>>>And doesn't that run right through society and expose the beast
>>>itself, in the elistism and attitudes of many people in this world,
>>>who wish to prop up the view that the Bible is the truth,
>>>the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And for obvious
>>>reasons. As they insist people swear oaths on it, and so it
>>>must be seen as as somehow the ultimate truth.
>>
>>Have you met any creationists or other fundamentalist
>>Christians? They would assert the very opposite about modern
>>science.
>>
>>But you know that, and you're just funnin' now.
>>
>
>
> I am funnin, yes, but also making my case. There is no need
> for me to show the truth which is self evident to any thinking
> person. in an angry way. I merely hope to open the eyes
> of the poor souls blinded by established academia and their rigid
> grip on the minds of our young and so impressionable youth.
So you got nothin'. Figures.
>
>
>>>Well the archaeological record does not bear this out,
>>>inspite of continual attemps to deny what the record shows
>>>of the history of civilization on this planet.
>>
>>Prove it.
>
>
> See the Ica stones, which depict and etc. And beyond that if
> a single helicopter heiroglyph, is not sufficient, then what
> could possibly constitute proof that the truth is being kept from
> the people?
> Sunken cities perhaps? Under over 2,000 feet of sea water.
> At what point do we admit that 2,000 feet is quite deep for an ancient
> city to be found?
Shoulda coulda woulda. Show me the money.
>
>
>>>The webite author you mention, has little to do with the
>>>maps presented. Although that is yet another technique
>>>isn't it, to try to kookify, the evidence, in denial of the truth.
>>
>>And of course you ignored Doug's post saying that he had
>>discussions about the maps on his website? So you have great
>>zeal for truth, and boundless energy in its pursuit, except when
>>you may be exposed to it?
>
>
> I did see Doug evade the subject and do the side slip and pretend
> to have information to dispute the facts if that is what you are referring
> to.
And I have seen you wimp out on looking at evidence you don't
want to see.
>
>
>>Read about the maps on Doug's site. Then come back and talk
>>about it. Until then, you seem far more willfully ignorant than
>>any mainstream archaeologist.
>>
>>Tom McDonald
>>
>
>
> Doug will present his evidence if he is a serious researcher.
He has it on his web site. He's told you it's on his web site.
You'll look at it on his web site if you are a serious
researcher. You up for it? Or would that violate your
membership pledge in WooWoo's R Us?
Tom McDonald
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
<rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> in sci.archaeology, wrote the following:
>I suppose because Hawass said that a Bell Ranger helicopter in the
>temple at Karnac in a heiroglyph, was a rendition of a childs toy,
>that all of a sudden that is a hoax as well?
As there is no such image in "the temple at Karnac [sic]" I'd say the
odds on chances are it is a hoax.
It appears that http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/cosmicegypt.html is your
source for these images and contentions.
Let's examine why you shouldn't trust the website as "truth."
>Appeal to authority to make the things that do not agree with your
>world view go away? That does not make sense Doug.
>Occams razor.
Ah, that old saw: let's appeal to the principle of parsimony. I agree:
let's do just that.
In his writings, Occam stressed the Aristotelian principle that entities
must not be multiplied beyond what is necessary. This principle became
known as Occam's Razor, a problem should be stated in its basic and
simplest terms.
More colloquially today it's expressed as the KISS test : Keep It
Simple, Stupid.
Yet, you have presented exactly the opposite of the principle of Occam's
Razor, IMO in regards to the Egyptian imagery, at any rate. Here's why:
Taking your examples:
The so-called "Nubian" example (which is actually an Old Kingdom relief,
likely from Saqqara):
>Then there is the Saturn 5 rocket in relief, what is your explanation there?
This is one of my favourite of the "aliens/spacecraft in the glyphs"
silliness.
This image was long ago explained and debunked by Larry Orcutt's website
at
http://www.catchpenny.org/alien.html
"Notice that the figures next to the 'rocket' are shown frontally,
unlike the other figures on this wall. The anatomical position of the
figures is also very unusual, with the arms straight and to the side
like gingerbread men. The figures themselves are without detail. Art in
[Egyptian-KGG] tombs tends to be very formal, and conventions are seldom
flouted. There seems to be a problem with style where the figures are
concerned.
Reliefs are carved into stone in two basic ways: raised and sunk. To
produce a raised relief, the material is cut away from around a figure,
so that the figure stands out from the matrix (surrounding background).
A sunk relief is achieved when the body of the figure is cut into the
matrix so that it is incised. Very often sunk reliefs were used on the
outside of buildings so that the sun would cast sharp shadows in them
for better definition. But sunk reliefs were also easier and quicker to
sculpt, so they were sometimes used indoors as well.
A close examination of the larger photograph will reveal that the
figures are in raised relief and the hieroglyphics are in sunk relief.
Note the man's arm at the far right. The left edge is dark, in shadow,
while the right edge is white (the source of light is to the right of
the observer -- note the shadows at the bottom center). The glyphs, on
the other hand, are dark on the right edge and light on the left,
indicating that they are in sunk relief. Now look at the figures next to
the 'rocket.' They are in sunk relief, unlike the other figures on the
wall. They are inconsistent in several respects to the general style of
the reliefs as a whole.
Modern graffiti (better described as _vandalism_) is universally
executed in sunk relief, mainly because this method is fast and easy and
it takes little talent or planning. It would not be illogical to
conclude that the two small figures standing beside the 'rocket' are
products of modern vandalism. But what about the 'rocket' itself? It is
hard to tell if it is in sunk or raised relief; it almost looks outlined
in black. The texture inside the outline is different than the texture
surrounding the form, which is not truly vertical (nor does it share a
baseline with the two "human" figures). The 'rocket' looks as out of
place as the two figures. If the purpose of the false door was to
provide a portal for the spirit of the deceased to pass in order to
receive offerings, then why would these figures appear here?
A critical examination of the evidence, while keeping in mind the
context in which it appears, would lead the rational mind to discount
unlikely theories of space alien intervention in favor of more prosaic
interpretations. Ironically, the truth is always more interesting than
falsehood, though some would discard the former in support of the
latter."
Ergo, Occam's Razor applies here for this explanation, rather than the
"Darkstar" one, IMO.
Oh, and BTW: the "grey" in the wall scene? See Larry's full and
detailed explanation on that as well. That "grey" is a stand of lotus
flowers.
This is also shown on Orcutt's site from a full detailed and frontal
aspect, which comes from the double mastaba of Akhti-Hotep and
Ptah-Hotep at Saqqara.
Finally, your source's citation gives an indication of the sloppiness as
to "research" and misrepresentation of this scene in Akhti-Hotep and
Ptah-Hotep's mastaba. The "Darkstar" website says:
"We were flabbergasted to say the least when we took a closer look at
this image and could make out an 'alien grey' in the bottom of the
picture! Does this prove that the building and placement of the Pyramids
were aided by alien intelligence?
We have only been able to find the three images of this picture that you
see here and have learned that this particular wall mural does not
appear in any official guidebooks!... I wonder why? I have found out
however that a picture showing this same mural is in an old book called
'In The Shadow Of The Pyramids - Egypt during the Old Kingdom'."
"Old book", indeed. The book is less than 20 years old and still
accessible via lending libraries! I suppose by claiming it as "old,"
this gives some panache to the web-author's 'claims':
Malek, Jaromir. 1986. _In the Shadow of the Pyramids: Egypt During the
Old Kingdom_. Norman: Univ. Of Oklahoma Press
ISBN: 0806120274
Can still be ordered online, new and used (pace Orcutt, who says the
work is out of print).
More on this double mastaba at Saqqara:
http://www.touregypt.net/ptahchmb.htm
Mastaba of Ptah-Hotep and Akhti-Hotep
http://www.wguides.com/city/113/150_202671.cfm
Mastaba of Ptah-Hotep and Akhti-Hotep: Ancient funerary temple
Amazing what a poorly rendered online photo of a very simple and
reasonable Egyptian offering scene can make foolish people think, IMO.
>Simply because you refuse to believe that time travel could exist
>or they could perhaps see into the future, surely these things
>cannot exist. I think people clearly have a mental block.
>Some people are hypnotized or something because there is no other
>explanation for the denial of such things other than it does not
>agree with their world view or their religious based viewpoint.
Whatever happened to the principle of Occam's Razor here? "Of two
competing theories or explanations, all other things being equal, the
simpler one is to be preferred."
Yet, you would have us believe people are "hypnotized" into accepting
the simpler (and more reasonable) of explanations about these imagery is
"denial"?
So much for the commitment to being "...more interested in the truth as
it is." You aren't interest in this at all, it appears.
>And I'm sure you know the bell ranger helciopter and Saturn 5 rocket
>but for those do not, it is on my website.
>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
God give me strength, Doug. Sobie's on about that darned palimpsest at
Abydos again (not 'Karnac').
Reviewed ad nauseam and explained - by myself and others in a variety of
media - the Abydos palimpsest, and its Photoshopped rendering online,
has given more money and recognition to charlatans than any other
imagery of ancient Egypt, IMO.
See:
http://www.finart.be/UfocomHq/usabydos.htm
Visual representation of the various changes to the glyphs by Ramses II
over Seti I's epithets, as described above:
http://www.geocities.com/neseret/Images/seti-ram-glyphs.jpg
Here's also a more researched and detailed explanation of the phenomenon
as noted by September/October 1999 issue of Skeptical Inquirer, who
studied these glyphs when they were first given coverage in the March
1999 Fox TV's "Opening of the Tombs - Live!" program:
"We are shown a wall inscription, which Hoagland says has pictures of
'high-tech things' like 'helicopters and land speeders and spaceships
and the Millennium Falcon.' To prove his point, the Fox production team
overlays video of an Apache helicopter to show the similarity. According
to Ms. Griffis-Greenberg, an Egyptologist at the University of Alabama
at Birmingham, who saw this broadcast, this interpretation is absurd,
but not new to her - it has cropped up on the Usenet so many times she
is tired of answering it. But she was glad to explain yet again, and
referred me to more credible sources.
I spoke to several other Egyptologists who were amazed that this was
being done on television, although one said to me that he expects this
sort of thing now, 'It is just what TV does.' But what do the experts
say about this 'helicopter' glyph? This will serve as an example for all
the rest: the 'helicopter' is in fact the Abydos palimpsest. A
palimpsest is what is created when new writing is inscribed over old. In
the case of papyri, old ink is scraped off, but in the case of
inscriptions, plaster is added over the old inscription and a new
inscription is made. The image described as a helicopter is well known
to be the names of Rameses inscribed over the names of his father
(something Rameses was known to do quite frequently). A little bit of
damage from time and weathering has furthered the illusion of a
'helicopter.' [6] What we should ask is why no Egyptologists were
questioned about this, something well known in the literature? As one of
them said to me, 'We don't live under rocks!' It would not have been
hard to get an expert to clarify the meaning of the 'helicopter' - they
had several experts on camera already. Hawass is heard saying the claim
of aliens coming from space and building the pyramids 'is nuts,' but he
is never asked to comment on any specific details of the arguments being
made. This is a very one-sided investigation. The people are not being
fairly informed."
CSIOP/Skeptical Inquirer's notes:
"[6] See http://www.finart.be/UfocomHq/usabydos.htm. See also Juergen
von Beckerath, Handbuch der Aegyptischen Koenigsnamen, Muenchner
Aegyptologische Studien 20, pp. 235-237; Omm Sety and Hanny El Zeini
Abydos: Holy City of Ancient Egypt, 1981, p. 187; and Shafik Farid, ed.,
The Temple At Abydos, 1983, Simpkins Splendor of Egypt series, 1983, p.
8. I would like to thank Ms. Griffis-Greenberg for her help."
Source: http://www.csicop.org/si/9909/fox.html
Flash! Fox News Reports that Aliens May Have Built the Pyramids of
Egypt!
Pseudoscience as news? The Fox Network's handling of its primetime
special "Opening the Lost Tombs: Live from Egypt" raises ethical
questions.
(All URLs current as of February 19, 2004)
Now, before arguing with Doug or anyone else about applying Occam's
Razor in presuming all your alleged evidence for flights of fancy about
aliens are "true," I suggest you do so yourself. Try looking into more
mundane and terrestrially bound explanations first. These usually can
be found, and do meet the Occam's Razor test as to truth and objective
evidence.
--
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg, MA (Lon)
Member, International Association of Egyptologists
American Research Center in Egypt, ASOR, EES, SSEA
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies Doctoral Program [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom
Clave
My post was formatted just fine, and I didn't rely on a newsreader to do it.
I even fixed your mess to post this. Do you ever have a point?
Jim
Carl R. Osterwald
<rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> wrote:
That's numero 5 just this week, up in smoke.
"I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue."
-=-=-=-=-
Official AFA-B Bully, Pest, and Gummint Disinformation Agent
Doug Weller
[SNIP]
> anomalous maps. The Piri Reis map is often ridiculed as being
> misinterpreted, and perhaps by itself, it could be seen as
> an oddity, that was, but then when you consider that it is only
> one map, that accurately charted Antartica before it was discovered,
> and even charted areas under the ice, I would have to say,
> that clearly archaeology today, is a sham mockery of a sham.
Even if it did show Antarctica it would say nothing about archaeology.
But it does not show Antarctica.
[snip]
Doug
Doug Weller
[SNIP]
> but for those do not, it is on my website.
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
It's a palimpsest.
http://www.finart.be/UfocomHq/usabydos.htm
"The strange hieroglyphs are the result of a recutting of the texts - the
original signs were covered in plaster, and new ones cut into the surface.
This plaster has now fallen out, leaving images that look rather like
modern items!"
[SNIP]
Doug
Doug Weller
> The pyramids in China, with iron pipes running right through solid
> rock. Go ahead debunk that one.
> I don't need to post the link again, it is on my website
Some scientific evidence for this please? Supposedly there was an
expedition 2 years ago to explore this claim. Where's the report?
Doug
Doug Weller
I expect you to have done some research, to have at least read McIntosh. My
web site is http://www.ramtops.co.uk
This is all just rehashed posts of yours.
Doug
Doug Weller
[SNOIP]
> Well I suppose the definition of civilization might be something that
> a person could dispute, but I would suggest that to organize a million
> people to build a land bridge, from Sri Lanka to India, should
> qualify as civilized behaviour. They would have to be organized
> in order to embark on a mega project of this magnitude.
> Surely approx. 2 million years ago, predates anything Judeo Christianity
> could make claim to.
It's a natural geological formation. There is no evidence that it is
anything else.
Doug
Irony Alert
>
> "Clave" <ClaviusFair...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
> news:243e01c0f9a76a5c...@news.teranews.com...
> > "Rick Sobie" <rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> wrote in message
> > news:reDYb.547246$X%5.141908@pd7tw2no...
> >
> > <...>
> >
> > > (When is Msoft going to learn how to make a newsreader that
> > > can properly format a message. sheesh)
> >
> > Ever hear what they say about someone who blames their tools?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
>
> The other day, while I was getting the blue screen of death,
> with Windows 2000, and it was dumping the memory to disk.
> As it was dumping the memory to disk, it crashed.
> It crashed while crashing.
>
An _analogy_ to that would be an antidiarrheal that gives you the runs.
--
The Usenet Irony Alert
Serving alt.fan.art-bell since 2003
Roymond Karcrashski is just my sock
Felony case "02-CR-0617 9/1/03: Oregon Department of
Justice V. Raymond Ronald Karczewski, Defendant.
"The defendant's name is NOT copyrighted."
Rick Sobie
In the middle of the page here...
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
is the scientific report. Including images of said iron pipes going through
said solid rock.
Rick Sobie
See the heiroglyph, see the helicopter in situ.
Middle of the page.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
"Katherine Griffis-Greenberg" <egy...@REMOVETHISgriffis-consulting.com>
wrote in message news:r2a830pabgv3u7el2...@4ax.com...
Rick Sobie
> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 01:31:05 GMT, Rick Sobie wrote:
> [SNIP]
> > And I'm sure you know the bell ranger helciopter and Saturn 5 rocket
> > but for those do not, it is on my website.
> > http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
>
> It's a palimpsest.
>
No actually it is made by Bell and called a Ranger model.
Bell doesn't make any palimpsest, those are made by Sigorsky
(I think)
Rick Sobie
I mean restore these priceless artficacts?
Just going to deny their existence as if they were clothes worn by
the emperor eh?
I suppose they are too heavily guarded is that it?
So what do the professors out there say, when the young child
with doe eyes, clutching a printed page from some website,
looks up, with a tear forming in the corner of her eye,
and says, "An F? But these things are real."
What then?
> > Well I suppose the definition of civilization might be something that
> > a person could dispute, but I would suggest that to organize a million
> > people to build a land bridge, from Sri Lanka to India, should
> > qualify as civilized behaviour. They would have to be organized
> > in order to embark on a mega project of this magnitude.
> > Surely approx. 2 million years ago, predates anything Judeo Christianity
> > could make claim to.
>
> LOL! You mean the sandbar? Please point me to the scientific
> evidence that: (1) it exists as a true 'land bridge', and (2) was
> man-made.
If your eyes cannot see for yourself that it is a natural formation in
these clear images then all the scientific reports in the academic
not so free world world would not convince you either.
What archaeologist could stand up against such tyranny as
is present in those hallowed halls? They would instantly
become an outcast, a laughing stock, and lose their tenure.
They would be cast out in disgrace for disclosing the big lie.
Behold...
Here is an ancient picture of the bridge itself.
http://survive.sli.unimelb.edu.au/~ianb/India/imageplus1000.jpg
Rick Sobie
Examine this image.
The Oronteus Finaeus Map. It was drawn by Oronteus Finaeus in 1531
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I1B832777
Rick Sobie
Is this some sort of cult skeptics club or something? I haven't read
such nonsensical one sided debunking in all my days.
To think, that if you removed the ice that would remove the weight
on Antarctica, and raise the level of Antarctica 920 meters higher
above seal level therefore exposing more coastline so that it would
no longer match the map, is ludicrous in the extreme.
Who makes this stuff up?
I haven't seen such poor debunking since the Ica stones fiasco,
where they claimed that one simple illiterate farmer, carved all 8,000
or so stones and discolored them by placing them in a chicken
coop, so they would be covered with chicken poop.
Do you not see such things as, the tree of life depicted in the Nazca
geoglyphs, and the candelabra, which all are linked to ancient Judeo
Christianity and the unicorn seals of India, which also made their way to
Mesopotamia, and which are the rosetta stones, to tie the entire thing
to a common theme?
It is obvious that there was religion in ancient India that used
the unicorn seals as part of their religion and that somehow
was related to the flood myth and also somehow found its way
to Peru. You do not have to be a Von Daniken to see such a
clear connection as that.
I have not yet inlcuded the Ica stones or Nazca lines on this page,
but I do disclose the big lie further here.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/Prelude_to_Armageddon.htm
Philip Deitiker
<rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> did some sarious thank'n and
scribbled:
>Oh quit trying to change the subject Katherine. The Abydos temple.
>
>See the heiroglyph, see the helicopter in situ.
>
>Middle of the page.
>
>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
>
I don't see the stargate, you have the wrong crater, look
for the crater with the stargate next too and the funny
metal men with snake heads [I should mention the green snake
headed men with purple polka dots].
Tom McDonald
Rick,
It's not on that page. You also link to that page in your
pitiful reply to Katherine. Do try to maintain the kook
standards that we've come to expect from you. You are seriously
letting the side down at the moment.
Tom McDonald
Tom McDonald
> Oh quit trying to change the subject Katherine. The Abydos temple.
>
> See the heiroglyph, see the helicopter in situ.
>
> Middle of the page.
>
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
Rick,
Nope, still links to the wrong page. Pitiful.
You may want to look up the words 'palimsest' and 'reason'. You
seem to be greatly in need of an appreciation of both.
Oh, and Katherine carefully answered your silliness with actual
evidence. You, on the other hand, answer thoughtful and reasoned
posts with silliness. That's fine for kooks, and if that's what
you aspire to, then you could rest on your laurels for quite a
while. If you really give a rat's ass about this stuff, you'd be
well advised to pay attention and present a coherent and cogent
argument for you views.
I won't hold my breath.
Tom McDonald
Rick Sobie
"Philip Deitiker" <Nopd...@att.net.spam > wrote in message
Go ahead laugh. Just remember that the moon is a *battle*
planet. And should I manage to get together the right
crew of ready good to go volunteers, then we shall be up there,
and you shall be done here. Running for cover no doubt.
And don't believe the rumors such as this...
http://www.labyrinthina.com/ica.htm middle of the page.
as although some of it may have sustained damage, and even with the
unexploded shells shown here.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm bottom of page,
we are not dismayed by this.
Rick Sobie
reply, I shall go into some greater detail for you.
Had the helicopter not been in the company of other flying ships,
one might think that it could be something other than a helicopter.
But then it appears with at least two othere clear examples of flying
machines.
No amount of imagination could turn them into something other
than they first appear as when looked at.
So you say, but this is impossible. How did they get there?
Well time travel of course. And I clearly show a time travel device
with manual, and schematic diagrams, and photographs, and there
is even a picture available of a man, with a light laser, showing the laser
bending under the influence of the gravitational field.
Everything but an actual stuffed timetraveller with a sign on his chest.
One could not expect more proof, if a miracle had occurred to
provide it.
Perhaps this is all related to the fact, that beneath the Sphinx, is
clear proof of the origins of these monuments that someone,
does not want anyone to know about?
Perhaps that tunnel that was sealed in concrete in the 30's might
have something to do with this? Or is it merely routine to go
about sealing up ancient tunnels near the Sphinx with cement?
And seriously Katherine, who could believe that a single carved piece
of graffiti, could prove who built the Great Pyramid, when the wall is full
of modern day graffiti? Occams razor. If the Saturn 5 rocket is
a modern day forgery, then clearly people have been going around
forging all sorts of things and what could be easier than to forge
a name on a wall covered with graffiti?
And what was all that fuss about the secret door and then suddenly
nothing? I mean the natives are getting restless as can clearly be seen
in numerous sites such as this one.
http://www.marsearthconnection.com/egyptian3.html
And what was that other rumor I heard of some strange artifiact
being found where Zahi appeared on TV, a few years ago,
deep down in a shaft, where there were numerous side shafts
not explored, where there was some water pools or something.
I have heard two strange rumors. One was there was a blue
single seater star ship, and the other was that there was giant
alien scarab down there. Now I can imagine that neither of
these you would like to disclose to the public, but you can tell me,
I won't tell anyone. So which was it?
"Katherine Griffis-Greenberg" <egy...@REMOVETHISgriffis-consulting.com>
wrote in message news:r2a830pabgv3u7el2...@4ax.com...
Rick Sobie
Very well here is the report.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200206/19/eng20020619_98177.shtml
And how do you explain this?
http://www.crystalinks.com/emachusquare.jpg
Tom McDonald
Rick,
That's better. I knew you had it in you. A link to a
two-year-old article for which a follow-up about what was found
never has materialized, and a Photoshopped woowoo religious card.
I can sleep peacefully, knowing that Kookdom is in good hands.
Tom McDonald
Rick Sobie
> Rick Sobie wrote:
>
> > Oh quit trying to change the subject Katherine. The Abydos temple.
> >
> > See the heiroglyph, see the helicopter in situ.
> >
> > Middle of the page.
> >
> > http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
>
> Rick,
>
> Nope, still links to the wrong page. Pitiful.
>
> You may want to look up the words 'palimsest' and 'reason'. You
> seem to be greatly in need of an appreciation of both.
>
if you are suggesting that they are toys, then why would a
childs toy be depicted in a sacred temple? It would not.
And fifthly, as you can clearly see, it has not been scraped,
the columms which appear vague, are clear references although
secretive by design, of the stargate beneath the sphinx as can
clearly be seen by comparing the Rosicrucian drawings on my site.
And furthermore the Saturn 5 relief was a lousy rendition because Jonn
Titor is not a very good artist.
And a bouquet of lotus flowers?
That is just plain silly.
Look beside the imagery and you will see that this is depiction of
a dream world. I am not saying there are alines which look
like a bouquet of lotus flowers but it is a very large universe.
But you are right. I am out of bullets for now. But that is OK,
as I have enough material already to write at least 20 good
kook books, and before long the archgaeological community
will be sitting there with egg on their faces, apollogizing to the
people on national TV on some National Geographic special.
I think I shall name my first book, "A Prelude to Armageddon"
"Things the Egyptologists, didn't tell you"
> Oh, and Katherine carefully answered your silliness with actual
> evidence. You, on the other hand, answer thoughtful and reasoned
> posts with silliness.
Lotus flowers?
And the heiroglyphs are clearly not worn. And they are in context.
I do appreciate her taking the time, but seriously I am not convinced.
Neither am I convinced that the water erosion is air erosion.
If that were the case, then we would have to rewrite all the geologists
books.
Neither am I convinced that the great pyramid was a tomb, when it was
clearly a dream machine. (Similar to a sensory deprivation tank)
And neither am I convinced that the graffiti is authentic when it is
along side contemporary graffiti. Merely using your own logic.
And further evidence exists that the Egyptian culture originated in
India.
Inger E Johansson
of course you might be on to something, but frankly I don't believe
that.....
The drawing could be from anywhere, anytime and doesn't say anything at all
re. to your assumptions.
You have to come up with something more than the 2 year old article. If you
have material for such book you ought to have at least one other more recent
source or one more reliable than an article in a newspaper 2 years ago.
Don't you agree?
Inger E
"Rick Sobie" <rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> skrev i meddelandet
news:vsiZb.575265$ts4.540574@pd7tw3no...
Rick Sobie
"Inger E Johansson" <inger_e....@notelia.com> wrote in message
news:rziZb.49637$mU6.1...@newsb.telia.net...
> Rick,
> of course you might be on to something, but frankly I don't believe
> that.....
> The drawing could be from anywhere, anytime and doesn't say anything at
>all re. to your assumptions.
> You have to come up with something more than the 2 year old article. If
>you have material for such book you ought to have at least one other more
>recent source or one more reliable than an article in a newspaper 2 years
>ago. Don't you agree?
>
If you are asking Inger whether or not you can steal my research and write
a book on the connection between the unicron seals, Mesoptotamia,
and Peru, I will have to think about it.
I am still in the process of deciphering the ancient text on the
unicorn seals of India.
The text is short, but the pictograms are long winded.
They speak of Orion, and that alone is enough to get a National
Geographic special exclusive you know.
Thus far I have deciphered only one. And it reads,
"Pack up the unicorns honey, we are moving to Egypt to build a large
pyramid"
Inger E Johansson
>
> "Inger E Johansson" <inger_e....@notelia.com> wrote in message
> news:rziZb.49637$mU6.1...@newsb.telia.net...
> > Rick,
> > of course you might be on to something, but frankly I don't believe
> > that.....
> > The drawing could be from anywhere, anytime and doesn't say anything at
> >all re. to your assumptions.
> > You have to come up with something more than the 2 year old article. If
> >you have material for such book you ought to have at least one other more
> >recent source or one more reliable than an article in a newspaper 2 years
> >ago. Don't you agree?
> >
>
> If you are asking Inger whether or not you can steal my research and write
> a book on the connection between the unicron seals, Mesoptotamia,
> and Peru, I will have to think about it.
No I am not asking about that. I only ask about the information you gave
regarding iron pipes in the mountain/pyramide or what you will call in in
question.
That I would like to have at least one later source for or if you prefer to
send at least one more reliable source than a two year old article in a
paper. You see an article written by a non-scientist who heard of a thing
but not even seems to have seen it himself sounds in my ears as rumors and
fantasies. The picture you sent as second referens lack information of when,
where, why and taken by who.
Contrary to many I have seen much strange things which makes me say, ok
there might be aliens visiting the Earth sometime or an other but I haven't
seen any solid proof for or against it so I am just open for new
information.
>
> I am still in the process of deciphering the ancient text on the
> unicorn seals of India.
Sounds as it might take a while to do so.
>
> The text is short, but the pictograms are long winded.
Pictograms are always hard to decipher I heard of those working with Rock
Carvings and/or Hieroglyphs. Never been into it myself.
>
> They speak of Orion, and that alone is enough to get a National
> Geographic special exclusive you know.
You might be right but I don't see it that way without more referenses to
the China part. Have you been there yourself. How have you got hold of
photos etc etc. There are many steps on the way before you can have an
special exclusive. Only you knows if you got all needed information for that
one and if you are capable to write an article with full referenses or not.
That remains to be seen for the rest of us.
>
> Thus far I have deciphered only one. And it reads,
> "Pack up the unicorns honey, we are moving to Egypt to build a large
> pyramid"
>
Sounds strange to say the least. But as I said only you can put what you got
together, one way or an other and convince us and/or National Geographic.
Inger E
>
>
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
<rick...@spamnotshaw.ca> in sci.archaeology, wrote the following:
>
>"Tom McDonald" <tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> wrote in message
>news:103b674...@corp.supernews.com...
>> Rick Sobie wrote:
>>
>> > Oh quit trying to change the subject Katherine. The Abydos temple.
>> >
>> > See the heiroglyph, see the helicopter in situ.
>> >
>> > Middle of the page.
>> >
>> > http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm
>>
>> Rick,
>>
>> Nope, still links to the wrong page. Pitiful.
>>
>> You may want to look up the words 'palimsest' and 'reason'. You
>> seem to be greatly in need of an appreciation of both.
>>
>Well first of all it is spelled palimpsest and thirdly,
>if you are suggesting that they are toys, then why would a
>childs toy be depicted in a sacred temple? It would not.
Wonderful attempt at obfuscation, since neither McDonald nor I argued
anything about a "child's toy." I am talking about the Abydos
palimpsest at the Temple of Seti I at Abydos (which you obviously
changed on your website last evening or so from "Karnac" (sic).)
>And fifthly, as you can clearly see, it has not been scraped,
>the columms which appear vague,
I see you don't bother to read the explanations provided, so let's try
it again, very slowly:
It was decided in antiquity to replace the five-fold royal titulary of
Seti I with that of his son and successor, Ramses II at the Temple of
Seti I at Abydos. In the photos, one can see the title, "Who repulses
the Nine Bows," which figures in some of the Two-Ladies names of Seti I,
replaced by "Who protects Egypt and overthrows the foreign countries," a
Two-Ladies name of Ramses II. With some of the plaster that once covered
Seti I's titulary now fallen away, certain of the superimposed signs do
indeed look _like_ a submarine, etc.
Here, the Seti I original epithet is a variant of /wHm mswt sxm-xpS
dr-pDt-9/ (being a Two Ladies' epithetical title, No. N1a in von
Beckerath's work on king's names and epithets) (von Beckerath 1999
<1984>: 151).
Ramses II replaced part of this epithet with a variant of his own,
/mk-Kmt waf.-xaswt...grg tAwy/ which is part of his Two Ladies'
epithetical title (being No. N2 in von Beckerath's work (von Beckerath
1999 <1984>: 153) . In the case of the overlaying palimpsest, only
/mk-Kmt waf.-xaswt/ is the significant part.
In the visual example I gave last evening:
http://www.geocities.com/neseret/Images/seti-ram-glyphs.jpg
Black = Seti's full Two Ladies epithetical name, and Red = Rameses II's
overlaying Two Ladies epithetical variant. While elongated spacing of
certain glyphs give more of the impression of the helicopter, for
instance, in the Nakken photo (your left photo), the objects which
appear as an "airplane" and "submarine" can also be detected in the
overlaying glyph imagery I have given above.
>And a bouquet of lotus flowers?
>That is just plain silly.
Since Larry Orcutt's website (given earlier) shows _this very same
scene_ with the detail of the same area IS a large offering vase full of
lotuses, which is a common offering to a deity in Egypt, I'd say I have
far more examples of this imagery as absolutely valid and concrete
explanation of the scene than you do of this as an image of a blurred
side shot of a "grey."
If you cannot be bothered to actually look up any information about the
double mastaba tomb of Akhti-Hotep and Ptah-Hotep, and see the actual
images clearly, it's no skin off my nose, really.
It just makes you, IMO, look more foolish.
>Look beside the imagery and you will see that this is depiction of
>a dream world. I am not saying there are alines which look
>like a bouquet of lotus flowers but it is a very large universe.
>
>But you are right. I am out of bullets for now. But that is OK,
>as I have enough material already to write at least 20 good
>kook books, and before long the archgaeological community
>will be sitting there with egg on their faces, apollogizing to the
>people on national TV on some National Geographic special.
>
>I think I shall name my first book, "A Prelude to Armageddon"
>"Things the Egyptologists, didn't tell you"
Surely a better title would be _A Prelude to Armageddon: Sojourns into
the Void of My Mind Since Reason Has Left._
If you don't _want_ to believe what Egyptologists tell you about these
various images and objects, you will surely be quite a hit on the KotM
sites, IMO.
>> Oh, and Katherine carefully answered your silliness with actual
>> evidence. You, on the other hand, answer thoughtful and reasoned
>> posts with silliness.
>
>Lotus flowers?
Yep. It's only your fevered mind that cannot fathom that as a
possibility under the Occam's Razor test.
>And the heiroglyphs are clearly not worn. And they are in context.
Of course the _glyphs_ are in context: but they _mean_ something as
well, as I indicate above. If you don't know how to read hieroglyphs
(and obviously, you don't), you are merely going on that webby "I think
they look like this..." sort of thing. So scientific, so rational: not.
One of the primary elements of Occam's Razor is that you understand what
the simplest explanation may be to a problem. If you don't have the
slightest idea what the features of the problem are (in this case,
knowledge that glyph writing in Egyptian had form and rules), then any
attempt to solve the problem places you on the losing end of the
inquiry.
So, bear with me as I explain to those who really _care_ about this
issue what a palimpsest is, what format Egyptian is written, and the
idea of usurping writings.
The definition of a palimpsest says nothing about its rendering or
quality, but is defined as "a manuscript, typically of papyrus or
parchment, that has been written on more than once, with the earlier
writing incompletely erased and often legible." (AHED) The word comes
from the Latin palimpsEstum, from Greek palimpsEston, neuter of
palimpsEstos, 'scraped again'.
Here in the Abydos inscription at the Temple of Seti I at Abydos you
have a palimpsest which was original rendered in stone (limestone), and
then laid over with gypsum plaster to create a new carving. Over the
years the gypsum plaster has fallen away in patches, giving the odd
overlay of two writings atop one another.
As this is an Egyptian palimpsest, the overly was quite a deliberate and
intentional one. One has to recall that the grouping of symbols is a
set method of quadrantal for individual words. When one has limited
space for a "rewrite," which in this case is _very_ intentional, then
the revised title must also fit with both the rule of word quadrantal
_and_ within the space provided. Had Mr. Sobie understood the nature of
hieroglyphic writing, he would know that the "squaring" of word symbols
within written Egyptian is standard and is seen all the way back to
predynastic - early dynastic writing.
The only "unintentional" quality of the Abydos palimpsest is the ancient
Egyptian carver/gypsum overlayer who created this palimpsest never
realized someone like Mr. Sobie would come along 3000+ years later and
try to see objects in his carving which he knew nothing about,
conceived, nor ever intended.
The ancient carvers _intended_ to write a _phrase_ which glorified the
two kings involved (Seti I and Ramses II), using words based on
hieroglyphic symbols. They succeeded admirably. Only Mr. Sobie and a
few of the paranormal/alien persuasion seem to want to ignore these
symbols are words first and foremost. Rather Mr. Sobie wishes make them
into something else.
In short, what I am saying that there was no intention upon the part of
the first OR second carver at the Temple of Seti I at Abydos to EVER
render these two sets of glyphs in such a way to create "planes,
helicopters, and submarines." The second carver specifically was
attempting to fit words into a limited space, using the quadrantal of
glyphs into words, which was standard in writing Egyptian language.
He succeeded in that effort as most phrases (these epithets which are
repeated elsewhere within the Temple and upon other Egyptian monuments,
BTW) are quite readable. To cover this space, he used a system of
cramping and/or elongating the glyphs to accomplish this effect.
Similar types of elongation/cramping can also be seen, for example, on
the Tutankhamun coffinettes from Tutankhamun's tomb.
Egyptologists have myriad examples of overwriting within confined space
on monuments and other objects (such as the coffinettes of Tutankhamun
which overlaid that king's name upon an earlier king's name).
Egyptology does have a name for such action: it's called "usurpation,"
and is VERY common in the New Kingdom and later.
Usurped monuments begin as far back as mid-18th Dynasty for
contemporaneous reference, when Tutankhamun usurped a few Amenhotep III
monuments/statues, while his successors, Ay and Horemheb, usurped even
more of _his_ monuments for his own. In turn, the Rammessids,
particularly Ramses II but also his predecessors and successors, further
usurped monuments of earlier kings.
As to the glyphs example at hand: A very complete book about the Temple
of Seti I at Abydos was written by Omm Sety (Dorothy Eady), the
caretaker of the Temple for over 25 years, and Hanny El Zeini, an
Egyptian businessman who consults on Egyptian excavations as a
translator. Neither are considered to be in the "mainstream" of
Egyptology, BTW, but they wrote what they knew
about the Temple, which was considerable, and photographed (for the
book cited below) just about every inch of the Temple and the
Osireion. Together, they wrote this about Ramses II and the issue of
usurpations:
"Ramses is also notorious for usurping the work of his predecessors.
In his dedicatory inscription on the facade of Sety's temple, he
frankly and shamelessly states that when completing the work in the
building, he put his own name on it as well as his father's.
Apparently, with the passing of time, this habit grew, and like an
addiction, became worse." (Omm Sety and Hanny El Zeini, 1981: 187)
The Temple of Seti I at Abydos is replete with titles of Seti I AND
Ramses II because Ramses completed the Temple after the death of his
father, and plastered his name alongside that of his father's in a
show of braggadocio. Ramses II admits as much in the First Hypostyle
Hall, which he says of the completion of the Temple, and which Omm
Sety/el Zeini refer to, above and in which the glyphs in question exist:
"I had them inscribed with the name of my father, and with my own
great name, because the son is like his father." (Farid, 1983: 8.)
(This is a common guidebook in Egypt, BTW).
>I do appreciate her taking the time, but seriously I am not convinced.
Quelle surprise. So much for Occam's Razor.
References:
Beinlich, H. and M. Saleh 1989. _Corpus der Hieroglyphischen Inschriften
aus dem Grab des Tutanchamun_. Oxford: Griffith Institute. [On the
Tutankhamun coffinettes and their usurpation inscriptions]
Calverley, A. M., M. F. Broome, et al. 1933. _The Temple of King Sethos
I at Abydos. (4 Vols)._ Archaeological Survey of Egypt. EES and OI.
London/Chicago: Egypt Exploration Society/The University of Chicago
Press.
Caulfield, A. and W. F. Petrie 1989 <1902>. _The Temple of the Kings at
Abydos (Sety I)_. Egyptian Research Account. 8th Memoir. London:
Histories and Mysteries of Man.
Davis, T. M. 2001 <1912>. _The Tombs of Harmhabi and Touatânkhamanou.
Excavations: Bibân el Molûk_. London: Gerald Duckworth and Co, Ltd.
[Usurpation inscriptions found in both tomb effects]
[All Abydos volumes above discuss the inscriptions of the First
Hypostyle Hall,where the questioned glyphs exist)
Eady, D. L. 1983. _Omm Sety's Abydos_. The Society for the Study of
Egyptian Antiquities (SSEA) Studies No. 3. Mississauga: Benben
Publications.
Farid, S., Ed. 1983. _The Temple of Abydos_. Simpkins Splendours of
Egypt Salt Lake City: Simpkins Souvenirs.
Gardiner, A. H. 1982 <1969>. _Egyptian Grammar_. Oxford: Griffith
Institute. [On hieroglyph writing rules, modification of glyphs in
usurpations, etc.]
Griffis-Greenberg, K. 2001. A Mysterious Triad at the Egyptian Museum.
The Ostracon: Journal of the Egyptian Study Society 121: 7, 19. [On an
usurped monument of Tutankhamun by Horemheb, with discussion of the
rendering of glyphs within a specific space].
Müller, M. 1993. Iconography: basic problems of the classification of
scenes. In Atti, (Ed.), _VI Congresso Internationale di Egittologia.
II_: 337-345. Turin: International Association of Egyptologists. [On
standard themes in temple and tomb scenes such as "vases of lotuses."]
Omm Sety/Eady, D. and H. el Zeini 1981. _Abydos: Holy City of Ancient
Egypt_. Los Angeles: L L Company.
Reeves, N. 1990. _The Complete Tutankhamun: The King - The Tomb - The
Royal Treasure_. London: Thames and Hudson. [On usurped pieces within
the tomb]
Spencer, P. 1984. _The Egyptian Temple: A Lexicographical Study_.
London: Kegan Paul International. [On standard themes in temple and tomb
scenes such as "vases of lotuses."]
van Walsem, R. 1998. The interpretation of iconographic programmes in
Old Kingdom elite tombs of the Memphite area. Methodological and
theoretical (re)considerations. In C. J. Eyre, (Ed.), _Proceedings of
the Seventh International Congress of Egyptologists. Cambridge, 3-9
September 1995_: 1205-1213. Orientalia Louvaniensia Analecta 82. Leuven:
Peeters. [Covering the mastaba tombs in Saqqara, such as the double
mastaba tomb of Akhti-Hotep and Ptah-Hotep].
Vernus, P. 1982. Espace et idéologie dans l'écriture égyptienne. In
A.-M. Christin, (Ed.), _Écritures: systèmes idéographiques et pratiques
expressives. Actes du colloque international de l'Université Paris VII.
22, 23 et 24 avril 1980_: 101-114. Paris: Le Sycomore. [On the use of
space in hieroglyphic writing]
von Beckerath, J. 1999 <1984>. _Handbuch der ägyptischen Königsnamen_.
Münchner Ägyptologische Studien, Bd. 49 G. Burkard and D. Kessler Mainz:
von Zabern. [On the epithets of Seti I and Ramses II, which are the two
phrases used in the Abydos glyphs].
Weeks, K. R. 1979. Art, Word, and the Egyptian World View. In K. R.
Weeks, (Ed.), _Egyptology and the Social Sciences_: 59-81. Cairo:
American University in Cairo Press.
Zippert, E. 1931. _Der Gedächtnistempel Sethos' I zu Abydos_. Department
of Philosophy. PhD. Dissertation. Friedrich-Wilhelms-Universität zu
Berlin: Berlin. [On the plans, inscriptions and iconography of the
Temple of Seti I at Abydos, and the coordination of the ritual scenes
and inscriptions]
Doug Weller
I think he's just having us on. I asked for a report on the findings of the
expedition, and he gives us what I've seen before, a report that there is
to be an expedition. Useless. I love the religious card, that must be a
joke also.
Doug
Tom McDonald
Doug,
Oh, he's having a ball for sure. I haven't paid much attention
to Sobie, just reading the occasional post and posting back at
him when the mood took me.
I can't get a read on him. On the one hand, he has a great and
sly sense of humor. In one of his replies to me he wrote
something like, 'first of all...fifth,...next...', clearly
playing around. On the other hand, he has spent a *whole* lot of
time looking into his weirdness, putting it up on his website,
and posting on the ngs. On the gripping hand, some of his posts
seem to betray real anger, frustration and belief which doesn't
seem feigned.
But he seems to generally be a mellow loon, which as opposed to
some other loons is a refreshing change of pace.
Hope your trip stateside was good, and that you had good old
fashioned midwestern winter weather.
Tom McDonald
Philip Deitiker
>Go ahead laugh. Just remember that the moon is a *battle*
>planet. And should I manage to get together the right
>crew of ready good to go volunteers, then we shall be up there,
>and you shall be done here. Running for cover no doubt.
>
>And don't believe the rumors such as this...
>
>http://www.labyrinthina.com/ica.htm middle of the page.
>
>as although some of it may have sustained damage, and even with the
>unexploded shells shown here.
>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/default.htm bottom of page,
>we are not dismayed by this.
I'm too old. I can't even drink, smoke and cuss at the same
time anymore.
Doug Weller
> Hope your trip stateside was good, and that you had good old
> fashioned midwestern winter weather.
It was work, but the weather was nice. I like it a bit below freezing. Too
much ice around though.
Doug
Doug Weller
The Piri Re'is map doesn't show Antarctica. If the Oronteus one does, it
must have been made in historical times. Haven't you read the articles on
my web page yet?
Doug
Philip Deitiker
<dwe...@ramtops.thisremove.co.uk> did some sarious thank'n
and scribbled:
>It was work, but the weather was nice. I like it a bit below freezing. Too
>much ice around though.
You obviously didn't make it this far south. Today's high
77'F (25'C).
Doug Weller
You seem to be very good at straw men, or maybe you just read carelessly.
If you have read the articles you must be deliberately misrepresenting
them. I've read Hapgood but I've also got Greg McIntosh's book on the Piri
Re'is map. Go read it.
And I've seen the modern pictures of a heart transplant that were copied
onto the Ica stones.
Doug
Doug Weller
> "Inger E Johansson" <inger_e....@notelia.com> wrote in message
> news:rziZb.49637$mU6.1...@newsb.telia.net...
>> Rick,
>> of course you might be on to something, but frankly I don't believe
>> that.....
>> The drawing could be from anywhere, anytime and doesn't say anything at
>>all re. to your assumptions.
>> You have to come up with something more than the 2 year old article. If
>>you have material for such book you ought to have at least one other more
>>recent source or one more reliable than an article in a newspaper 2 years
>>ago. Don't you agree?
>>
>
> If you are asking Inger whether or not you can steal my research and write
> a book on the connection between the unicron seals,
Ah Rick, didn't you just comment on someone's spelling? :-)
[SNIP]
Doug
Doug Weller
> And the heiroglyphs are clearly not worn. And they are in context.
>
> I do appreciate her taking the time, but seriously I am not convinced.
>
> Neither am I convinced that the water erosion is air erosion.
> If that were the case, then we would have to rewrite all the geologists
> books.
If Rick is talking about Schoch, once again it looks as though he hasn't
read the research (in this case by geologists).
[SNIP]
Doug
George
Rick Sobie
>
> Doug,
>
> Oh, he's having a ball for sure. I haven't paid much attention
> to Sobie, just reading the occasional post and posting back at
> him when the mood took me.
>
> I can't get a read on him. On the one hand, he has a great and
> sly sense of humor. In one of his replies to me he wrote
> something like, 'first of all...fifth,...next...', clearly
> playing around. On the other hand, he has spent a *whole* lot of
> time looking into his weirdness, putting it up on his website,
> and posting on the ngs. On the gripping hand, some of his posts
> seem to betray real anger, frustration and belief which doesn't
> seem feigned.
>
> But he seems to generally be a mellow loon, which as opposed to
> some other loons is a refreshing change of pace.
>
> Hope your trip stateside was good, and that you had good old
> fashioned midwestern winter weather.
>
> Tom McDonald
>
A mellow loon. Well if that is a compliment then I am willing to accept it.
Yes I have a sense of humor. You need one to post to usenet.
Actually I am researching a book. Or didn't I mention it?
I have decided to change the title.
It will have an image such as this on the cover...
http://www.foldedspace.org/images/commandocody.jpg
And the title will read ... IT'S A KOOK BOOK!!!!!!!!