My Wikipedia biography of Batchimeg Tuvshintugs
Sam Sloan
Better look at it quick, before vandals like "Rook wave" (Ralf
Callenberg) and Louis Blair hack it up.
Batchimeg Tuvshintugs
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Batchimeg Tuvshintugs (b. 1986 in Mongolia) is a Woman International
Master of chess. She now lives in the San Francisco Bay area.
She caused a tremendous sensation in the 2006 U.S. Chess Championship
held March 2-11 in San Diego, California, by defeating three top rated
grandmasters and drawing anouther grandmaster in the first five
rounds. Her opponents had an average Elo Rating of 2612, so her
performance rating based upon her score of 3.5 - 1.5 for those five
games was 2772, which is perhaps the world's record performance for a
woman anywhere in a chess tournament.
Batchimeg Tuvshintugs started the tournament rated 2271. In the first
round, she defeated Grandmaster Alexander Fishbein (rated 2593) who
ultimately finished fourth. Batchimeg Tuvshintugs then lost to
Grandmaster Yury Shulman (2623) who won the trournament, defeated
Grandmaster Boris Kreiman (2535), drew Grandmaster Boris Gulko (2678)
and then defeated Grandmaster Julio Becerra (2629).
[edit]
External links
* FIDE rating card for Batchimeg Tuvshintugs
* The chess games of Batchimeg Tuvshintugs
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batchimeg_Tuvshintugs"
Categories: 1986 births | Living people | American chess players |
Mongolian chess players | Mongolian sportspeople | Mongolian people |
Chess players
Sam Sloan
<senn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>samsloan wrote:
>
>> Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod) wrote:
>>
>> > Sam Sloan wrote:
>> >
>> > > [...] her performance rating based upon her score of 3.5 - 1.5
>> > > for those five games was 2772, which is perhaps the world's
>> > > record performance for a woman anywhere in a chess tournament.
>> >
>> > False. Sophia Polgar finished once a WHOLE tournament
>> > (in Rome) with a 2900+ performance.
>> >
>> >
>> > *******
>> >
>> > Wlod
>>
>> OF course, this was a famous performance, which became known as "The
>> Sac of Rome", when Sophia was only 13, but are you sure it was 2900+ ?
>> Do you have a complete list of opponents she played?
>>
>> Sam Sloan
>
>Let me quote "The Oxford ...":
>
> [...] in February 1989 she won a tournament
> in Rome, run on the Swiss system, scoring
> 8 wins and conceding a draw, in a favourable
> position, in the last round. Experts considered
> this, a rating performance of more than 2900,
> to be matched only by Fisher and Kasparov
> at their best.
>
>(End of quote).
>
>Do pay attention to the comas. The meaning is"
>
>(1) the rating performance was higher
>then 2900;
>
>(2) The experts considered such a performance
>(on 2900+ level) to be matched only by Fischer
>and Kasparov at their best.
>
>I don't know Sophia's (Zsofia's; Sofia's)
>opponents. I hope that those games are
>in the data bases.
>
>Wlod
>
>PS. Sophia was not 13 but 14 or 15 at the
>time, probably still 14. She was very young
>all the same.
Paul Truong has provided on another group a list of some of the
opponents Sophia played in 1989. Sophia's performance rating of over
2900 is achieved by excluding two games Sophia won against low rated
players. (This is ligitimate. Similarly, in the latest US
Championship, any game won by any player against Kelly Cottrell, rated
1663, would be excluded in counting the performance rating of that
player.)
Also, Sophia's performance in Rome 1989 was NOT a GM Norm (for some
thecnical reason. I forget the reason.)
Paul Trupng writes that Sophia played "GM Chernin, GM Razuvaev, GM
Suba, GM Palatnik, GM Dolmatov, IM D'amore 2425, FM Mrdja 2405, etc.
With all due respect, these GMs are in a different class than
Kreiman, Becerra and Fishbein.
"She started out with the score of 8/8. She only drew in round
9. Her rating at that time was 2295 and she finished with 8.5/9, 2
points ahead of the second place finishers GM Chernin 2580, GM
Dolmatov 2580, IM Levitt 2495 and the well known GM Wojtkewicz.
"She defeated 4 GMs! By the way, these were all FIDE rating,
not USCF which is more inflated.
" It is not even close Sam. She made the IM norm by 3.5 points
and GM norm by 1.5 points. Her performance was 2879 in 9 rounds and
2930 in 7 games against titled players. No other female player
(including her 2 sisters) can match this. This was the greatest
single tournament result in history for any female chess player."
I do not disagree, but we have an apples and oranges problem here
because we are comparing FIDE ratings in 1989 to USCF ratings in 2006.
The FIDE ratings of the players Batchimeg Tuvshintugs played in the
first five rounds, Fishbein, Shulman, Kreiman, Gulko and Becerra,
averaged 2544. Of course, I am fudging by excluding the last four
games, all of which she lost. However, Truong is fudging too by
leaving out the two games Sophia won against low rated players.
The players on the list Truong gives above averaged only about 2500 in
1989 FIDE Rating points. Remember that Batchimeg Tuvshintugs next
played Kamsky and Yermolinski. Kamsky is certainly stronger than any
player Sophia played in 1989 and Yermolinski probably is. However,
Batchimeg Tuvshintugs lost those games so we are not counting them.
There is no doubt that Sophia's overall result was better. However, I
see no harm in trying to bring some publicity to a new player by
saying that her result is "perhaps" the best result for five games of
any woman player in chess history. It is kind of like arguing over
whether Ruth or Maris hit more home runs.
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
>
>
> In a message dated 3/12/2006 10:52:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> samhsloan@... writes:
>
>
>
> 2 words: Rome (1989) and Sofia
>
>
>
> Possibly. That is the one that comes to mind.
>
> However, I do not believe that Sofia's result was quite that good.
>
> Do you have a list of the players Sofia played and their ratings?
>
> Of course, Sofia had a better result overall, because she played all nine
> games of the tournament, whereas in this case I am only counting the first five
> games.
>
> Sam Sloan
>
>
>
> GM Chernin, GM Razuvaev, GM Suba, GM Palatnik, GM Dolmatov, IM D'amore 2425,
> FM Mrdja 2405, etc. With all due respect, these GMs are in a different class
> than Kreiman, Becerra and Fishbein.
>
> She started out with the score of 8/8. She only drew in round 9. Her rating
> at that time was 2295 and she finished with 8.5/9, 2 points ahead of the
> second place finishers GM Chernin 2580, GM Dolmatov 2580, IM Levitt 2495 and the
> well known GM Wojtkewicz.
>
> She defeated 4 GMs! By the way, these were all FIDE rating, not USCF which
> is more inflated.
>
> It is not even close Sam. She made the IM norm by 3.5 points and GM norm by
> 1.5 points. Her performance was 2879 in 9 rounds and 2930 in 7 games against
> titled players. No other female player (including her 2 sisters) can match
> this. This was the greatest single tournament result in history for any female
> chess player.
>
Paul,
Although you say that you want to encourage girls to play chess,
everytime a girl produces an exceptional result, you have to knock her
down by saying that something a Polgar did 17 years ago was much
better.
You are also dead wrong, on numerous counts.
Sophia's result in Rome 1989 did not exceed the GM norm by 1.5 points.
It did not exceed the GM norm at all, because it was not a GM norm
period.
I do not remember the reason, but for some reason Sophia's result did
not qualify for a GM norm. Perhaps it was that her first two opponents
in this nine round open tournament either had a low rating or no
rating at all. That would kill all norm possibilities for this
tournament.
Next, it is not true that the opponents faced by Batchimeg Tuvshintugs
in San Diego 2006 were not in the same class as those faces by Sophia
in Rome 1989. According to their current FIDE ratings, the opponents
faced by Batchimeg Tuvshintugs were stronger.
Here are the opponents who faced Sophia Polgar, in current FIDE rating
order:
Chernin (2586), Dolmatov (2561), Razuvaev (2540), Suba (2510),
Palatnik (2478), D'amore (2474), and Mrdja (2332). The other two
players are not listed and probably had no or low ratings.
All of these players now have USCF ratings. Here are their USCF
ratings: Chernin (2652), Dolmatov (2651), Razuvaev (2581), Suba
(2593), Palatnik (2516), D'amore (2481), and Mrdja (2464).
Now, by contrast, here are the nine opponents that Batchimeg
Tuvshintugs faced, but this time in order played, not in rating order:
Fishbein (2519), Shulman (2581), Kreiman (2478), Gulko (2585), Becerra
(2556), Kamsky (2686), Yermolinski (2554), Zatonskih (2453) and
Muhammad (2377).
Now, here are the USCF ratings of the same players: Fishbein (2593),
Shulman (2623), Kreiman (2535), Gulko (2678), Becerra (2629), Kamsky
(2729), Yermolinski (2590), Zatonskih (2469) and Muhammad (2458).
Thus, it can be seen that the five grandmasters who Sophia Polgar
played in Rome 1989 had an average rating of 2535. By contrast, the
FIRST five grandmasters that Batchimeg Tuvshintugs faced averaged
2544.
All other ways of calculation yield that Batchimeg Tuvshintugs faced a
stronger field than Spohia Polgar faced.
Of course, Sophia Polgar got a better score and she was five years
younger than Batchimeg Tuvshintugs was. So, Sophia's overall result
was much better. Nevertheless, you should not try to claim that the
players that Batchimeg Tuvshintugs faced were not even in the same
class as the opponrents that Sophia Polgar faced.
You also claim that Sophia's "performance was 2879 in 9 rounds and
2930 in 7 games against titled players". This is a lie. In order to
achieve a performance of 2930, Sophia would have had to play against
opponents averaging 2530 and win all of her games. She did not win all
of her games. She gave up one draw. The average rating of her top five
opponents was 2535. Her result of 4 1/2 - 1/2 adds 320 points. So, she
had a performance of 2855 over 5 games, not 2930 over 7 games, a big
difference.
This is not intended in any way to deminish the great result achieved
by Sophia Polgar in Rome 1989. You do both Sophia and the entire chess
community a dis-service by claiming that her result was even greater
than it really was.
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
>
>
> It would be helpful if you check your facts. The number of 2879 and 2930 did
> not come from me. It came from at least a few sources. The fact that she
> exceeded the GM norm by 1.5 points and IM norm by 3.5 point also came from a
> number of sources. Yes, I deal with facts, not fiction.
>
> I never said what Batchimeg did was not fantastic. It was great! But to say
> that it is the best performance ever by a woman is just simply wrong. Irina
> Krush performed over 2600 at the Mayor's Cup in 2001. She was the first US
> homegrown female player to achieve a GM norm. Jennifer Shahade got 2 IM norms in
> 2 US Championship. Anna Zatonskih achieved 4 IM norms after moving to the US.
> All of their performances are better in 9 rounds.
What sources are those? Name them! Those sources are wrong.
Why don't you ask Susan Polgar? She will tell you that Sophia's
performance in Rome 1989 was NOT a GM norm. Sophia does not have a GM
norm yet. She has come close several times, but has always missed by a
fraction.
The fact that you make these statements when you obviously have no
idea what you are writing about, causes me to wonder whether you have
permission to post under Susan's name, as you did during the recent
debates over on http://www.usachess.com/forums .
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
Truong not only does not accept the apology but now attacks me over
something else.
This debate over whether Sophia Polgar achieved the Grandmaster norm
in Rome 1989 started over an article I wrote praising the
accomplishments of Batchimeg Tuvshintugs, age 19, at the 2006 US
Championship in San Diego.
In response to my article about how great Batchimeg Tuvshintugs is,
Truong wrote a rebuttal saying that Sophia Polgar was much better in
view of her performance in Rome 1989.
Paul Truong wrote: "Sophia played GM Chernin, GM Razuvaev, GM Suba, GM
Palatnik, GM Dolmatov, IM D'amore 2425, FM Mrdja 2405, etc. With all
due respect, these GMs are in a different class than Kreiman, Becerra
and Fishbein."
However, this is not true. Over all, the field that Batchimeg
Tuvshintugs faced in San Diego 2006 was higher rated and probably
stronger than the field Sophia Polgar faced in Rome 1989.
Batchimeg Tuvshintugs played seven grandmasters and two international
masters. Her opponents were: Fishbein, Shulman, Kreiman, Gulko,
Becerra, Kamsky, Yermilonski, Zatinskih and Muhammad.
If you check the ratings of these players you will see that they are
all rated a little bit higher than the players Sophia Polgar played.
However, that is not the point. The point is that just because Sophia
Polgar had a great result 17 years ago does not mean that we cannot
give recognition to an up and coming young and previously unknown
player like Batchimeg Tuvshintugs today. In other words, why does Paul
Truong have to immediately denigrate the accomplishments of other
players who are not members of his entourage?
Also, it must be pointed out that it was I, Sam Sloan, who wrote about
and publicized the achievement of Sophia Polgar in Rome 1989. I found
out about it because Susan wrote me a letter about it when I was then
living in Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. I wrote articles about the
achievement of Sophia Polgar in Rome 1989 which were published around
the world. It was probably more me than anybody else who publicized
her achievement. Her result became known as The Sac of Rome.
Indeed, I have a long record of writing articles about young rapidly
improving players going back 30 years. That is how I became involved
with Susan Polgar in the first place, when she too was an almost
unknown young player.
Regarding the GM Norm, Truong does not respond to the real point,
which is the statement, "Why do you insist on saying something that is
not true? If her performance rating was in the 2800's, why wouldn't
she get a GM norm?"
The current rules for a GM Norm are posted at:
http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=B0101
However, back in 1989 the rules were stricter.
In order to qualify for a GM Norm, one must submit the names of the
opponents the player played, the order in which they were played, the
result of each game, the rating and international title at that time
of the player, the score of the games in PGN Format and the full cross
table of the tournament to insure that the pairings were legitimate.
We know the names and the ratings of seven of the opponents of Sophia
Polgar but we do not know the names of the other two players and I
believe that only three or four of the games have been published. We
do not know the order in which they were played. The full cross table
has never been published, as far as I am aware.
Nevertheless, as I have written, it was a great, fantastic performance
and it will be accepted for GM Title purposes if Sophia ever gets two
regular GM norms. It is just that the statement, "If her performance
rating was in the 2800's, why wouldn't she get a GM norm?" makes no
sense to anyone familiar in detail with the title regulations plus,
just because Sophia had a great result in 1989, why cannot we also
give recognition to other great results?
Sam Sloan