OT: Here we go again
Robatoy
U.S. officials: 5 Iranian Revolutionary Guard boats harassed, provoked
3 U.S. Navy warships in the Strait of Hormuz on Saturday
OH REALLY???? What? 5 Zodiacs wave-jumping 3 Aircraft Carriers?
When is that provoking Bush clown going to get reigned in???????
Bastard is just making up the excuse to do what the Israelis have
ordered him to do...... start a war again...
And why not? They only have 12 more months to wreak havoc, so they
best hurry, eh?
Sunnuvvabitch!
J. Clarke
> Breaking News
>
> U.S. officials: 5 Iranian Revolutionary Guard boats harassed,
> provoked
> 3 U.S. Navy warships in the Strait of Hormuz on Saturday
>
>
> OH REALLY???? What? 5 Zodiacs wave-jumping 3 Aircraft Carriers?
Well, now, there's the problem. They can very easily manage to sink
themselves and of course the claim will be that the carrier
deliberately rammed them (not a possibility--60,000 tons of carrier
can make surprisingly abrupt maneuvers--a carrier demonstrating
maximum peformance turns during trials is quite something to see--but
not _that_ abrupt, at least not unless the Zodiac is _trying_ to get
hit). Note--zodiac getting hit by carrier moving at speed is very
unlikely to result in survivors--anything going under the ship will
pass through a quarter million horsepower Cuisinart before exiting the
other side.
That assumes that they're Zodiacs. Cigarettes or the like are more
likely--in calm water those things can outrun any oceangoing ship and
with a 106mm recoilless or some Stingers they can do real damage. Not
likely to sink a carrier but they can potentially take down planes
taking off or landing and could do quite a lot of damage to an FF
before they got sunk. The generic term is "Boghammar" and they're the
seagoing equivalant of a suicide bomber with IEDs.
Efforts to avoid hitting the damned things can disrupt the formation.
If the Iranians are lucky then they can disrupt it enough to result in
another Belknap incident (remember the Belknap--cruiser that got run
over by the Kennedy?)
> When is that provoking Bush clown going to get reigned in???????
> Bastard is just making up the excuse to do what the Israelis have
> ordered him to do...... start a war again...
> And why not? They only have 12 more months to wreak havoc, so they
> best hurry, eh?
> Sunnuvvabitch!
Uh huh. Are you saying that the Iranians caught stupidity from Bush?
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Puff Griffis
Yemen ?
Puff
"Robatoy" <Counte...@gmail.com> wrote in
message
news:d242df03-eedc-4b31...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Chuck Taylor
<Counte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Breaking News
>
>U.S. officials: 5 Iranian Revolutionary Guard boats harassed, provoked
>3 U.S. Navy warships in the Strait of Hormuz on Saturday
>
>
>OH REALLY???? What? 5 Zodiacs wave-jumping 3 Aircraft Carriers?
Be sure and let everyone know when you've read the story, not just the
headline. The U.S. ships involved were a frigate, a cruiser, and a
destroyer, not the floating cities known as aircraft carriers.
The USS Cole, a destroyer, suffered significant damage and several
casualties in 2000 thanks to attackers in a small boat. History
suggests that defensive action against a bunch of yahoos in Zodiacs,
cigarette boats, or rowboats in your vicinity isn't necessarily a bad
idea.
>When is that provoking Bush clown going to get reigned in???????
>Bastard is just making up the excuse to do what the Israelis have
>ordered him to do...... start a war again...
>And why not? They only have 12 more months to wreak havoc, so they
>best hurry, eh?
>Sunnuvvabitch!
*yawn* By all means don't let any facts get in your way.
--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/
jo4hn
> Robatoy wrote:
>> Breaking News
[snip]
>
> Uh huh. Are you saying that the Iranians caught stupidity from Bush?
>
Lots of otherwise seemingly sensible folks did...
grump,
j4
Robatoy
h!
>
> *yawn* By all means don't let any facts get in your way.
>
No facts, just a prediction. I could be wrong again. Have been before.
But I do see a similarity between that SF Zoo tiger finally getting
pissed off enough at the taunting to react.
Imagine, if you will, a group of bikers rolling up and down your
street... slowly, not doing anything illegal, just looking at your
house and driving off, just to reappear again a day later...after a
year, I think you'll get my meaning.
Joe AutoDrill
>street... slowly, not doing anything illegal, just looking at your
>house and driving off, just to reappear again a day later...after a
>year, I think you'll get my meaning.
I'd probably jump on my bike and join them for a ride... Somehow I don't
think that's what you meant though.
--
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
Norvin
in posting your position here. There are a lot of political newsgroup
where you can vent your opinion and have others debate with you.
J. Clarke
Hey, I resemble that remark . . .
Robatoy
WTF? Are you a UseNet cop? We kibbutz in here all the time when we're
not helping others and sharing information.
What have you done for rec.woodworking lately? What? Nothing? Oh, I
see. 18 posts and 5 of those were whiners....in 3 years!!!
THREE years!
Now go bake some bread.
r
J. Clarke
> How big was the boat that attacked the USS Cole at
> Yemen ?
According to
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/uss_cole_bombing.htm
it was 35 feet. For reference, the smallest model in the Cigarette
line is 38 feet.
--
Neil Larson
see, how can 5 Zodiacs harass 3 Aircraft Carriers?
We don't have 3 Aircraft Carriers in the Gulf, won't fit, no Air Ops manuver
room, and even with an idiot in the Oval Office, we would not put 3 of our
12 carriers in the Gulf..
- Sit in front of a carrier moving at 28 knots while launching aircraft?
No you can't just run them over or people like you would claim the Navy was
trying to start a war.
- Approaching close aboard after the USS Cole incident?
No you can't just turn and avoid them. 98,000 tons takes a few minutes to
turn and can't be done with an aircraft on the cats.
- Shoulder fired rockets?
Can't shoot at them, you would claim the Navy was trying to start a war.
Some other note,
We don't have 3 Aircraft Carriers in the Gulf, won't fit, no Air Ops manuver
room, and even with an idiot in the Oval Office, we would not put 3 of our
arriers in the Gulf.. Maybe a Crusier, Frigate, Destroyer or some kind of
Gator orreplenishment ship.
They have Komans from the French that are missle carriers, They have newer
in shore Patrol boats, they actually still have a small number of old
Destroyers (British and US Navy Sumner Class), Frigates (British) and
Corvettes (US) and a number of mine layers, mine sweepers and gators.
Don't oversimplify the issues that our forces face on a daily basis. Be a
Bush hater all you like but don't be an as*hole about our people serving in
that god forsaken place.
"Robatoy" <Counte...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d242df03-eedc-4b31...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Robatoy
> Wow, as much as I hate the SOB Bush, this is a really stupid statement. Lets
> see, how can 5 Zodiacs harass 3 Aircraft Carriers?
>
difference between the US strength and the Iranian ramshackle
equipment.
>
> Don't oversimplify the issues that our forces face on a daily basis. Be a
> Bush hater all you like but don't be an as*hole about our people serving in
> that god forsaken place.
>
uniform. In fact, the opposite is true.
You wouldn't work for Fox News would you?
>
(reporting from the Straights of Tonkin)
Neil Larson
out there on board those ships that you expect to ignore the poor little
Iranian boats that are harzarding them.
"Robatoy" <Counte...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d6e3a58d-6e6a-483b...@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
Neil Larson
out there on board those ships that you expect to ignore the poor little
Iranian boats that are harzarding them.
"Robatoy" <Counte...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d6e3a58d-6e6a-483b...@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
Charlie Self
> Puff Griffis wrote:
> > How big was the boat that attacked the USS Cole at
> > Yemen ?
>
> it was 35 feet. For reference, the smallest model in the Cigarette
> line is 38 feet.
>
>
>
> > Puff
>
> > message
> >news:d242df03-eedc-4b31...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> Breaking News
>
> >> U.S. officials: 5 Iranian Revolutionary Guard
> >> boats harassed, provoked
> >> 3 U.S. Navy warships in the Strait of Hormuz on
> >> Saturday
>
> >> OH REALLY???? What? 5 Zodiacs wave-jumping 3
> >> Aircraft Carriers?
>
> >> When is that provoking Bush clown going to get
> >> reigned in???????
> >> Bastard is just making up the excuse to do what
> >> the Israelis have
> >> ordered him to do...... start a war again...
> >> And why not? They only have 12 more months to
> >> wreak havoc, so they
> >> best hurry, eh?
> >> Sunnuvvabitch!
>
> --
Part of the problem there was the rules of engagement: the Cole guards
were not allowed to fire on the boat. I would hope to hell, even in
light of today's idiocies, that our military won't easily accept that
kind of senseless order again.
Lew Hodgett
"Neil Larson" wrote:
> Wow, as much as I hate the SOB Bush, this is a really stupid
statement.
Think you will be finding more and more "Friends of Neil", as the
election campaign progresses.
> Lets
> see, how can 5 Zodiacs harass 3 Aircraft Carriers?
Answer:
VERY carefully.
A 1,000 ft boat, zipping along at 28 knots, which isn't even hull
speed, probably needs about 4-5 miles to make a turn, much less, make
an evasive maneuver.
The Iranians have obxiously been promised their ration of 72 virgins
each.
Nobody in their right mind would get close to a carrier while it is
underway; however, thes US ships were NOT carriers, but frigates and
destroyers.
Smaller yes, turn on a dime, no.
As far as cigarette boats are concerned, they are little more than
overgrown bath tub toys.
Try to run one in 5-8 ft seas at more than about 5 knots, and you will
find your gonads on the cabin sole.
Same for inflatibles.
Work well in flat water, but that's it.
The wake from a war ship is a far cry from flat water.
Lew
Hank
8463e0...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
Hi Rob,
My only resolution this year. DO NOT FEED TROLLS.
Robatoy
Aside from that, Lew, how big of a moron does one have to be to
believe that Iran, which just had a major PR boost from the NIE
report, would harass Navy warships with small motor craft? When
dealing with psychopathic lying sacks of shit always look for the
point of the action.
DGDevin
> No facts, just a prediction. I could be wrong again. Have been before.
> But I do see a similarity between that SF Zoo tiger finally getting
> pissed off enough at the taunting to react.
> Imagine, if you will, a group of bikers rolling up and down your
> street... slowly, not doing anything illegal, just looking at your
> house and driving off, just to reappear again a day later...after a
> year, I think you'll get my meaning.
Ah, so you figure Iran is the innocent party here huh? Would this be the
same Iran which floated mines down the Gulf some years back? Doesn't a
history like that suggest that nations which depend on Gulf oil have a right
to secure those waters? Would these be the same Revolutionary Guards who
run a booming smuggling trade in the Gulf and who thus don't care for
anything that smacks of law enforcement taking an interest in their
activities, thus their recent kidnapping of a group of British sailors and
marines? Is that the innocent party you're referring to?
Hey, I'm no fan of the Bush administration, but this coin has two sides and
you appear to be taking pains to see only one.
J. Clarke
Of course if they had fired on it then it would have been "nasty old
Americans trying to start a war".
Robatoy
J. Clarke
You're saying that you wouldn't have made that accusation? Even
though you're making it now with regard to Iranians stirring up
trouble?
J. Clarke
Well, now, if you want to look for lying psychopathic sacks of shit,
just about anybody with "Ayatollah" in front of his name is a pretty
good candidate.
Some cortisone would help that knee.
With regard to wakes and Cigarettes, they are designed as offshore
racers--they are capable of considerable speed in sea conditions
typical of those between Miami and the Bahamas. As for leaving your
gonads on the cabin sole, war is Hell. Anybody who would attack a
real warship with one is planning to die anyway--next to that a little
discomfort is not a deterrent. The Persian Gulf is not exactly an
area of extreme wave action in any case. Not sure what the wake has
to do with anything.
Robatoy
> >> Americans trying to start a war".
>
> > With Yemen?
>
> You're saying that you wouldn't have made that accusation?
No, I would not have. There were no drums of war against Yemen like
there have been lately against Iran.
> Even
> though you're making it now with regard to Iranians stirring up
> trouble?
>
I have yet to believe that it is the Iranians who are trying to stir
up trouble.
But I do believe that it is the Israelis who want Iran eliminated from
their expanded backyard.
Right now the Iranians have a political advantage in that their so-
called weapons program is no longer a reason for war. An estimate made
by the US intelligence bureaus. So why would they go begging to have
their country flattened?
Always ask yourself "who will benefit?"
Lew Hodgett
"J. Clarke" wrote:
> Well, now, if you want to look for lying psychopathic sacks of shit,
> just about anybody with "Ayatollah" in front of his name is a pretty
> good candidate.
If you want an arguement, change the subject<G>.
> With regard to wakes and Cigarettes, they are designed as offshore
> racers--they are capable of considerable speed in sea conditions
> typical of those between Miami and the Bahamas.
As I said, they are great bathtub toys. They can run in a gentle
offshore swell of 6-8 ft on maybe 500 ft periods, but reduce the
period to say 100 ft and it's a different story.
BTDT, don't want the T-Shirt.
Those testosterone jockeys used to race out of my marina.
They had to call their races 3 straight days while I hung on a 110 jib
and went out to play in 25 knots of wind and 5-7 ft seas in the open
waters of Lake Erie.
Happened at least twice in a 3 year period.
>As for leaving your
> gonads on the cabin sole, war is Hell.
You obviously haven't been on one when any weather was running.
> Not sure what the wake has
> to do with anything.
You are obviously not a seaman.
Lew
Lew Hodgett
"Robatoy" wrote:
Aside from that, Lew, how big of a moron does one have to be to
believe that Iran, which just had a major PR boost from the NIE
report, would harass Navy warships with small motor craft? When
dealing with psychopathic lying sacks of shit always look for the
point of the action.
I don't have any idea.
IMHO, morons are morons.
Lew
Lew
J. Clarke
Who benefited from 9/11? Or do you think that that was done by Darth
Rumsfeld commanding the Death Star on the orders of the Grand Moff
Shrub?
Don't assume that someone else's idea of "benefit" is the same as
yours.
--
Mark & Juanita
> On Jan 7, 7:25 pm, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> >> Americans trying to start a war".
>>
>> > With Yemen?
>>
>> You're saying that you wouldn't have made that accusation?
>
> No, I would not have. There were no drums of war against Yemen like
> there have been lately against Iran.
>
That, and GW was not in office. Clinton could have leveled Yemen with nary
the bat of an eyelash. After all, how much fuss was raised over Bosnia and
Serbia? Or the fact that there are still troops there?
>> Even
>> though you're making it now with regard to Iranians stirring up
>> trouble?
>>
> I have yet to believe that it is the Iranians who are trying to stir
> up trouble.
> But I do believe that it is the Israelis who want Iran eliminated from
> their expanded backyard.
> Right now the Iranians have a political advantage in that their so-
> called weapons program is no longer a reason for war. An estimate made
> by the US intelligence bureaus. So why would they go begging to have
> their country flattened?
> Always ask yourself "who will benefit?"
Wow, talk about monovision regarding Bush and the administration. IIRC
you even made the accusation in a previous thread about how because of the
fact Bush is a professing Christian, the US has a theocracy (as an aside,
borrowing a phrase: I don't think that word means what you think it
means). All sorts of evil motivations and actions have been attributed to
this accusation and how so many of the bad things happening have been a
result of this.
Now, the reality of the situation is that Iran really is a theocracy in
the true meaning of the word. Furthermore, it is lead by a person who
embodies all of the things that the left is projecting onto Bush.
Ahmadinijad literally believes that he is the person in place to usher in
the re-appearance of the Mahdi and has made public pronouncements to this
point. The only such pronouncements regarding Bush have come as whispered
accusations from his opposition and embody only character assassination.
Ahmmadinnerjacket has given every indication he is willing to take any
actions he and his clerical handlers think is necessary to usher in the age
of the Mahdi -- that does not mean sweetness and light by the way.
You'd be better served by focusing the Bush derangement syndrome reactions
onto Iran and its crazy leader.
>> --
>> --John
>> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
>> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
Robatoy
You just tried to add/change the subject.
I thought we were talking about Yemen and Iran.
>
> Don't assume that someone else's idea of "benefit" is the same as
> yours.
>
That's fair.
Robatoy
> Robatoy wrote:
> > On Jan 7, 7:25 pm, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> Americans trying to start a war".
>
> >> > With Yemen?
>
> >> You're saying that you wouldn't have made that accusation?
>
> > No, I would not have. There were no drums of war against Yemen like
> > there have been lately against Iran.
>
> That, and GW was not in office. Clinton could have leveled Yemen with nary
> the bat of an eyelash.
When you're operating in the Gulf, you don't go bombing your gas
station.
[snipferized]
> > Always ask yourself "who will benefit?"
>
> Wow, talk about monovision regarding Bush and the administration.
Guilty. They're neo-cons who want to pave the way for the New World
Order.
Everything they do is to further the cause of world domination and a
'Greater Israel'.
They think, like Ahmadinnerjacket, that they can force the hand of
God.
r
J. Clarke
Actually we were talking about motivations.
>> Don't assume that someone else's idea of "benefit" is the same as
>> yours.
>>
> That's fair.
The thing is I don't see any reason to believe that Bush wants a war
with Iran. But the Islamic nutters benefit from one by further
polarizing the Islamic world against the US and against Western values
(note, not just the US--the Paris-Dakar rallye, which is substantially
a European event, was cancelled this year due to threats from Al
Quaeda, to take one example). Their objective seems to be to get
fundamentalist governments put in place everywhere in the Islamic
world, including currently moderate or progessive places such as
Indonesia and Maylaysia.
J. Clarke
What's with you and Israel anyway? You seem to really have it in for
them.
I've never heard anything about this "greater Israel" from anybody but
you. Is this the skinhead conspiracy theory du jour or something?
--
Robatoy
Shhhhhh, dammit, not so loud. Next thing you know. everybody is going
to want to be a skinhead. It is actually all my idea, I had everybody
sneak around and re-write everybody's bibles and change the following
paragraphs to this:
Genesis 15:18-21
Also, A Google search of 'Greater Israel' already turned up over
1,000,000 hits, so the word is getting out.
DGDevin
> I have yet to believe that it is the Iranians who are trying to stir
> up trouble.
Something tells me you are careful to confine your reading to sources which
are unlikely to challenge that view. What do you know about the factions
within the Iranian power structure, the Revolutionary Guards for example?
Are you aware that they are a parallel military with their own air and naval
units, that they have similar security duties to the old Soviet KGB, and
that one of their responsibilities is smuggling in the Gulf? Is it a huge
leap for you to speculate that the motivations of such an organization might
not be the same as that of the conventional Iranian military who probably
don't want confrontations they know they can't win?
> But I do believe that it is the Israelis who want Iran eliminated from
> their expanded backyard.
Ah here we go, it always comes back on Israel, no matter what anyone else in
the middle-east does including massacring their own citizens, somehow it's
Israel's fault. Iran arms, trains and directs Hezbollah which has seized
control of part of Lebanon from the rightful govt. and attacks Israel
whenever Iran wants to make a political point to Washington, but somehow
that's really Israel at work. Dictatorships like Syria and Iraq have
brutally oppressed their own people, killed them by the tens of thousands at
times, but let's get back to how Israel is the real problem. Iran executes
citizens for "crimes against chastity," the Taliban was fond of tying women
up in sacks and stoning them to death, in recent decades various Islamic
nations in the middle east have made war on each other with a death toll
running into the millions, but *really* it's all those Israelis.
What an amazing case of tunnel vision you have.
> Right now the Iranians have a political advantage in that their so-
> called weapons program is no longer a reason for war.
So-called, a program they did in fact have but have apparently stopped in
the past few years, alongside their considerable conventional weapons
program (they're now building weapons for export as well): so-called. One
has to wonder, if there were rumors of some secret Israeli weapons program,
would you consider it a rumor, or would it automatically be confirmed fact
in your view? No need to answer.
> An estimate made by the US intelligence bureaus. So why would they go
> begging to have
> their country flattened?
Why do such governments usually push their luck? Why did Iran scrap back
and forth with Iraq until it became open war? Why did the military junta in
Argentina seize the Falkand Islands? Why did Turkey use armed force to
seize disputed territory from Greece? Why did Mussolini go off on foreign
military adventures Italy was incapable of sustaining? Do you suppose that
such governments long ago learned that the best way to distract a restless
population from domestic ills is to give them foreign enemies to focus on,
that there is nothing so effective at uniting the population behind an
unpopular govt. like a shooting war with outsiders? Can you think of a
better way for the hardliners in Iran to hold onto power than to keep the
population on edge with threats of American and/or Israeli plots and
aggression?
> Always ask yourself "who will benefit?"
Asking yourself questions is good, but deciding in advance what the answers
will be makes the whole process pointless, it's like deciding to cut a plank
at 60" regardless of what the plans and the tape measure says, it's a
self-defeating policy.
Robatoy
[snip]
> Do you suppose that
> such governments long ago learned that the best way to distract a restless
> population from domestic ills is to give them foreign enemies to focus on,
> that there is nothing so effective at uniting the population behind an
> unpopular govt. like a shooting war with outsiders?
You mean, start a scrap somewhere, have the population focus on it,
while the population is robbed of their freedoms at home?
>
> > Always ask yourself "who will benefit?"
>
> Asking yourself questions is good, but deciding in advance what the answers
> will be makes the whole process pointless, it's like deciding to cut a plank
> at 60" regardless of what the plans and the tape measure says, it's a
> self-defeating policy.
Talk about tunnel vision....
Stick with your well-rehearsed party line. And be proud of the fact
that your people are giving the Palestinians (add others) what they
deserve.
J. Clarke
> On Jan 8, 2:10 am, "DGDevin" <dgde...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>> Do you suppose that
>> such governments long ago learned that the best way to distract a
>> restless population from domestic ills is to give them foreign
>> enemies to focus on, that there is nothing so effective at uniting
>> the population behind an unpopular govt. like a shooting war with
>> outsiders?
>
> You mean, start a scrap somewhere, have the population focus on it,
> while the population is robbed of their freedoms at home?
Of what "freedoms", exactly, has anybody been "robbed"?
Hint--before you jerk your knee again, find out the date on which the
portion of the legislation that you find offensive was actually
enacted. Not what someone _tells_ you, go to the LOC site and read
the legislation with commentaries, then find the bills and read them.
>>> Always ask yourself "who will benefit?"
>>
>> Asking yourself questions is good, but deciding in advance what the
>> answers will be makes the whole process pointless, it's like
>> deciding to cut a plank at 60" regardless of what the plans and the
>> tape measure says, it's a self-defeating policy.
>
> Talk about tunnel vision....
>
> Stick with your well-rehearsed party line. And be proud of the fact
> that your people are giving the Palestinians (add others) what they
> deserve.
Huh? The Palestinians are the ones blowing up everything in sight
including themselves. If they'd stop doing that then maybe they'd
"deserve" better than they are currently getting.
--
Robatoy
You really don't have a clue, do you?
Who was living in Palestine before the Zionists invaded it?
But, it is no use debating this any further.
DGDevin
[snip]
>> Do you suppose that
>> such governments long ago learned that the best way to distract a
>> restless
>> population from domestic ills is to give them foreign enemies to focus
>> on,
>> that there is nothing so effective at uniting the population behind an
>> unpopular govt. like a shooting war with outsiders?
> You mean, start a scrap somewhere, have the population focus on it,
> while the population is robbed of their freedoms at home?
I figured you'd go there, but I also thought you'd do a better job of it.
Of course it's a poor fit, the Bush administration wasn't unpopular at the
time it made the ill-advised decision to invade Iraq, and whatever motives
they had for invading, distracting the population from domestic problems
does not seem to have been one of them. There is also the point that if the
American people don't like what the Bush admin does they can do something
about it, and they did so by taking away control of Congress from the
Repuiblicans in the mid-term elections. If the Dems also get the White
House in '08 it will be fascinating how many features of the Patriot Act and
so on they choose to roll back, given their non-reform of lobbying abuses
and their willingness to shield telecom companies from liabilty for aiding
domestic spying, for example, I'm not optimistic.
> Stick with your well-rehearsed party line. And be proud of the fact
> that your people are giving the Palestinians (add others) what they
> deserve.
Right, party line, anyone who disagrees with your placard-waving
sloganeering must be adhering to a rehearsed party line, in contrast to your
open-minded quest for the truth, LOL.
"Your people," what people do you suppose I represent? I think the Bush
admin has largely been a disaster in large part because the invasion of Iraq
was one of the greatest foreign policy blunders in American history.
Israeli settlement of disputed lands in Palestine is also an unacceptable
policy IMO, and I'm neither Jewish nor Israeli, so which "people" pigeonhole
are you trying to fit me into so you explain away my views as mere
partisanship?
Now if you'll forgive me a box just arrived from Lee Valley so I have a
bunch of new stuff to drool over. You probably have some anti-U.S. and/or
anti-Israel websites to visit, myopia as advanced as yours must need a daily
fix of propaganda to keep it at full strength, wouldn't want any objective
info leaking in and diluting your bumper-sticker-grade analysis of world
affairs.
DGDevin
> You really don't have a clue, do you?
> Who was living in Palestine before the Zionists invaded it?
An "invasion" voted on by the world and sanctioned by the United Nations. I
bet you're in favor of those UN resolutions condemning Israeli settlements
on the West Bank and so on, but when it comes to the resolution establishing
the state of Israel, well that's different huh? BTW, if you care to crack
open a history book or two you might find that those pesky Jews have been
living there for thousands of years and had a state called Israel with a
capital city called Jerusalem, you might have heard about it--Babylon, the
Roman Empire, The Bible--lots of movies you can rent if you aren't much of a
reader. Kind of hard to find anything about a state called Palestine
however. Maybe if the UN passed a resolution creating such a state--oops,
wait, you aren't in favor of that, are you.
> But, it is no use debating this any further.
You never did debate it, you just chanted your slogans and waved your
placard, now that you're being asked to defend your views with something
other than slogans there is suddenly no use, what a surprise.
Robatoy
>
> "Your people," what people do you suppose I represent? I think the Bush
> admin has largely been a disaster in large part because the invasion of Iraq
> was one of the greatest foreign policy blunders in American history.
> Israeli settlement of disputed lands in Palestine is also an unacceptable
> policy IMO, and I'm neither Jewish nor Israeli, so which "people" pigeonhole
> are you trying to fit me into so you explain away my views as mere
> partisanship?
>
You just caved.
But you couldn't admit to that without first trying to leave some foam
on me.
You try to stave off any of my rebuttals by mentioning all the UN
resolutions that Israel has wiped it ass with.
Yet you seem to mention the UN as a sanctioning body which allowed to
plunder and murder Palestinians.
Make up your mind, such as it is.
r
DGDevin
> You just caved.
Oh really, well I suppose I should not be surprised that someone as able to
filter reality into a form he finds more pleasing would think so.
> But you couldn't admit to that without first trying to leave some foam
> on me.
You don't need my help with that, your slogan-driven view of the world keeps
you plenty foamy all by itself.
> You try to stave off any of my rebuttals by mentioning all the UN
> resolutions that Israel has wiped it ass with.
Rebuttals? 'Because I say so' qualifies as a rebuttal?
> Yet you seem to mention the UN as a sanctioning body which allowed to
> plunder and murder Palestinians.
> Make up your mind, such as it is.
Get a library card sunshine, you have a lot of catching up to do, although
that might require more maturity than you'll be able to muster. Oh well, at
least you dropped "your people," small progress but better than nothing.
Robatoy
> "Robatoy" <Counterfit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:077af5ec-e2f6-4bee...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > You just caved.
>
> Oh really,
Yes really.
In the meantime, live on in the fog you're living in and watch for
those lampposts.
And don't forget to nurture your arrogance, Sparky.
I usually try to encourage dialogue when I think something is to be
learned from it, but in your case, I'll pass.
Nothing to see here, so I'll just move along.
Hank
news:13o7ip3...@corp.supernews.com:
Don't feed the troll.
Robatoy
>
> Don't feed the troll.
DGDevin
> Yes really.
> In the meantime, live on in the fog you're living in and watch for
> those lampposts.
> And don't forget to nurture your arrogance, Sparky.
> I usually try to encourage dialogue when I think something is to be
> learned from it, but in your case, I'll pass.
> Nothing to see here, so I'll just move along.
I ran into too many clowns like you in university, guys who figured a C+ in
History 101 and a C- in PoliSci 101 had taught them all they needed to know
about the world. I haven't seen you engage in a dialogue yet in the sense
that you hear what anyone else says, you're convinced you're right on every
issue despite astonishing ignorance, and if bias was a dollar a pound you'd
be rich. All slogans, no content describes your side of the "dialogue"
perfectly. One would hope at least that you're young enough to have a
chance to grow up, but then again guys like you rarely make it past the
sophomore stage.
Sorry slick, your fifteen minutes are up, you're killfile bait, adios.
DGDevin
"Hank" <hj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A1FD9A60579...@216.168.3.70...
> Don't feed the troll.
My mistake, won't happen again.
Robatoy
> "Robatoy" <Counterfit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f8afc312-7bd6-4f9b...@v29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Yes really.
> > In the meantime, live on in the fog you're living in and watch for
> > those lampposts.
> > And don't forget to nurture your arrogance, Sparky.
> > I usually try to encourage dialogue when I think something is to be
> > learned from it, but in your case, I'll pass.
> > Nothing to see here, so I'll just move along.
>
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Good riddance, asshole.
LRod
Thanks for that (seriously). I've saved it to my hard drive for
certain future use.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
Robatoy
> On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:10:40 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
>
> >On Jan 8, 9:23 pm, Hank <hj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Don't feed the troll.
>
> >http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Robatoy/WGAF.jpg
>
> Thanks for that (seriously). I've saved it to my hard drive for
> certain future use.
You are welcome to use it and have my permission. I created it, so I
can say that.
r
LRod
Too bad you didn't put "0" at about the 10 o'clock position and have
all the numbers CCW from it negative. Then it would more closely fit
my favorite saying, "the instrument has yet to be devised which could
measure my indifference to that..."
Maybe a little work with PaintShop Pro...
But, still a nice creation, nonetheless.
Neil Larson
a Bush hater (with which, at least, I can sympathize) with limited knowledge
of the middle east. After reading all the rest of your posts in this subject
and your responses, I have discovered that you are just an ignorant and
racial asshole with limited knowledge of of anything outside of the United
States. Now I am just trying to figure out if you are the kind with a shaven
head and swastikas tatooed all over you or the interbreed hick living in the
bacwoods, stroking your guns like they are a woman waiting for a chance to
shoot someone who looks different.
"Robatoy" <Counte...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5cc86986-0fa3-43aa...@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
Swingman
> and your responses, I have discovered that you are just an ignorant and
> racial asshole with limited knowledge of of anything outside of the United
> States.
LOL ... _except_ for the fact that Rob's Dutch-Canadian, and residing in
Canada, IIRC.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
DGDevin
"Swingman" <k...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:f6Sdnbh7mdS2uRja...@giganews.com...
> "Neil Larson" wrote \
>
>> and your responses, I have discovered that you are just an ignorant and
>> racial asshole with limited knowledge of of anything outside of the
>> United States.
>
> LOL ... _except_ for the fact that Rob's Dutch-Canadian, and residing in
> Canada, IIRC.
Willfull ignorance is unrestrained by mere borders. Someone who believes
that anyone disagreeing with his ill-informed rants about Israel must
therefore be a Jew is a bigot and a fool wherever he lives.
Neil Larson
meaning though.
"Neil Larson" <neill...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ph9hj.61644$eY....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
Swingman
>
> "Swingman" wrote in message
>
> > "Neil Larson" wrote \
> >
> >> and your responses, I have discovered that you are just an ignorant and
> >> racial asshole with limited knowledge of of anything outside of the
> >> United States.
> >
> > LOL ... _except_ for the fact that Rob's Dutch-Canadian, and residing in
> > Canada, IIRC.
>
> Willfull ignorance is unrestrained by mere borders. Someone who believes
> that anyone disagreeing with his ill-informed rants about Israel must
> therefore be a Jew is a bigot and a fool wherever he lives.
Irrelevant ... when anyone slings terms like "racists" around, they really
need to take care to have ALL their facts straight ... blatant, and
incorrect, assumptions, like the one pointed out, just make them look the
"fool".
Robatoy
> I started out, after reading your initial post, thinking that you were just
> a Bush hater (with which, at least, I can sympathize) with limited knowledge
> of the middle east. After reading all the rest of your posts in this subject
> and your responses, I have discovered that you are just an ignorant and
> racial asshole with limited knowledge of of anything outside of the United
> States.
First of all, I'll indulge your little misunderstanding by telling you
that the way a person looks seems to be more of an issue with you than
with me. You see, Zionists come in all kinds of shapes and sizes and
colours. The fact that you can't tell the difference between a Jew and
a Zionist, tells me enough not to take you too seriously. There are
many well educated Jews, including Rabbis, who agree that Zionists are
on the wrong path. There are genuine Jews, (who are by some racial
definition, Jewish, like the Sephardic Jews,) who are discriminated
against by their own Israeli people.
The biggest racists are the Zionists who maim, kill, starve, their
Arabic brethern in Abraham. It is the Zionists I have a problem with,
sir.
>Now I am just trying to figure out if you are the kind with a shaven
> head and swastikas tatooed all over you or the interbreed hick living in the
> bacwoods, stroking your guns like they are a woman waiting for a chance to
> shoot someone who looks different.
>
Wrong on both counts. 100% wrong. Talk about limited knowledge...LOL
My goodness. And you call ME racist, while you have no compassion for
your fellow Americans who live in the backwoods and may have been
brought up a little different than you? And that graphic description
of your petting a gun drawing some perverse sexual parallel with a
woman, makes you one sick motherfucker.
I don't think I'm the one with a problem here.
Robatoy
> "Neil Larson" wrote \
>
> > and your responses, I have discovered that you are just an ignorant and
> > racial asshole with limited knowledge of of anything outside of the United
> > States.
>
> LOL ... _except_ for the fact that Rob's Dutch-Canadian, and residing in
> Canada, IIRC.
>
Yes, an attractive and successful caucasian male at that. (Is that
politically correct?)
Robatoy
> Someone who believes
> that anyone disagreeing with his ill-informed rants about Israel must
> therefore be a Jew is a bigot and a fool wherever he lives.
Your grammar sucks.
I have NO idea what the last part of that sentence means. I'm a Jew? I
didn't know that... We're not sure about granpa though.
You also lack the comprehension to evaluate what I believe.
BTW, didn't you plonk me? Or are sticking around in the hope to learn
something?
Swingman
>Yes, an attractive and successful caucasian male at that. (Is that
> politically correct?)
In that case, stay where you are ... that would only qualify you for low man
on the totem pole around these parts, but you'd still have to pay for a
lion's share.
</mix meaningful metaphors>
Tanus
Dave
> On Jan 7, 7:25 pm, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > >> Americans trying to start a war".
>
> > > With Yemen?
>
> > You're saying that you wouldn't have made that accusation?
>
> No, I would not have. There were no drums of war against Yemen like
> there have been lately against Iran.
>
> > Even
> > though you're making it now with regard to Iranians stirring up
> > trouble?
>
> I have yet to believe that it is the Iranians who are trying to stir
> up trouble.
> But I do believe that it is the Israelis who want Iran eliminated from
> their expanded backyard.
> Right now the Iranians have a political advantage in that their so-
> called weapons program is no longer a reason for war. An estimate made
> by the US intelligence bureaus. So why would they go begging to have
> their country flattened?
> Always ask yourself "who will benefit?"
>
>
>
> > --John
> > to email, dial "usenet" and validate
>
> - Show quoted text -
I hope by now that you all have seen the video clips on CNN.com. I do
not care who is president, the fast boats involved were trying to
provoke a response. The radio chatter was designed to convince the
ship officers that an attack was underway. I try to be realistic,
rather than reactionary. I believe in this case our Navy folks were
much more restrained than I would have been.
I don't believe that the world is black and white. Not all Iranian
people are "towel headed" terrorists. I suspect that many of the
Iranian people feel the same affection for their president as you do
for yours. The difference is that you can actually say what you think.
In addition, while I have stopped being a Bush fan some time ago, I
don't for a second believe that he would deliberately escalate war for
no reason. Believe it or not, he is not a dictator. There are many
folks involved in the process and the needs of other countries in the
region are only part of the decision process.
Finally, (for now) the knee jerk reaction you used in your assumptions
is the same type of reaction that the radical terrorists use to
justify their idiocy. Get your facts straight before you pull the
trigger and shoot the hostage.
Mark & Juanita
> "Neil Larson" wrote \
>
>> and your responses, I have discovered that you are just an ignorant and
>> racial asshole with limited knowledge of of anything outside of the
>> United States.
>
> LOL ... _except_ for the fact that Rob's Dutch-Canadian, and residing in
> Canada, IIRC.
>
Yep, so he can't have any guns since it appears the Canadians (except for
their criminals) are deathly afraid of guns.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
Robatoy
> Swingman wrote:
> > "Neil Larson" wrote \
>
> >> and your responses, I have discovered that you are just an ignorant and
> >> racial asshole with limited knowledge of of anything outside of the
> >> United States.
>
> > LOL ... _except_ for the fact that Rob's Dutch-Canadian, and residing in
> > Canada, IIRC.
>
> Yep, so he can't have any guns since it appears the Canadians (except for
> their criminals) are deathly afraid of guns.
>
more guns.
The big difference might be that we kill mostly for food, but that is
also true for a lot of Americans who live in these latitudes.
Mark & Juanita
On a trip to Canada a number of years ago, when crossing the border, the
border guard must have asked me a dozen different ways whether I had any
guns or ammunition in the vehicle with which I was entering Canada (didn't
distinguish between handguns or long guns). Also saw a PSA while up there
informing Canadians of their duty to register their ammunition by some
certain date.
Robatoy
Yes, there is some sort of registry as there are in many states. Lots
of Americans come up here to hunt, well, they used to when the US
dollar was at pre-Bush levels.
The guys at the border just want the proper paperwork.
But, having said that, it is not a lot of trouble buying a piece on
the street if you know where to look. That is one big, long border.
Markem
<Counte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Yes, there is some sort of registry as there are in many states. Lots
>of Americans come up here to hunt, well, they used to when the US
>dollar was at pre-Bush levels.
>The guys at the border just want the proper paperwork.
>But, having said that, it is not a lot of trouble buying a piece on
>the street if you know where to look. That is one big, long border.
A friend visits Canada for the fishing, two years at the border one of
the party had a BB gun, he was not allowed to enter. The BB gun was
confiscated. It pays to know what is allowed eh?
Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618
woodstuff
"DGDevin" <dgd...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:13o90fj...@corp.supernews.com...
before, assuming that they were really woodworkers or at least wannabees. I
have chosen to stay on topic and not get into these arguments whether I
agreed or not. And I held back on suggesting the same for some of the
prolific posters, thinking it would be a wasted effort.
Although I am not an amateur at this, I read in this group to learn what I
can and it has been helpful at times. Sometimes I am able to help others.
I sometimes have asked about some products or methods and have been helped.
I have nothing to prove or nothing I need to express publicly about my
political or spiritual beliefs. The purpose of this forum is not to be used
like the trolls do.
woodstuff.