Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Swingman
Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen
cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it,
stained, or otherwise finished it?
Any experience with this material welcome.
Thanks ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
dpb
> No conjecture, please.
>
> Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen
> cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it,
> stained, or otherwise finished it?
>
> Any experience with this material welcome.
Not any direct but there was a fairly extensive article/discussion on
the use advantages/disadvantages in FHB within the year that might be
informative...
--
Pat Barber
http://www.plyboo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=218
I didn't even know it existed....
Swingman
> No experience, but here is some info:
>
> http://www.plyboo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=218
>
> I didn't even know it existed....
Even Coonasses got links, cher! :)
No one I know has even touched or seen the stuff, and I was hoping to find
someone who had used it on a project. The client is very eco/conservation
minded and is adamant about using something "green" for the material in her
kitchen project.
One of the issues of likeminded folks with regard to interior materials
seems to be the formaldehyde used in the glue during the manufacturing
process. All data I've found thus far indicates that any exposure is only of
concern to the workers during the plywood manufacturing process, and that
very slight.
My initial point was that "plyboo", which is likely manufactured the same
way (especially in China where this stuff comes from), would have the same
risks, but that has now apparently been addressed with a product labeled
"plyboo pure".
While this would seem to be an ideal material for the required spec, I
can't, in good conscious, put my blessing on something without knowing how
well it may stand up to the intended task. The ads/info sheets, etc. all
have the blurb (regarding the glue used in manufacture) "no added
formaldehyde", which is like saying "no added sugar", which doesn't
necessarily mean there is none, or how much, of either.
Some are also touted as being "urea-formaldehyde free", but, from what I can
determine, all this stuff is "Made in China" and we've seen what that gets
you with regard to the veracity of ingredients.
In short, and needless to say, I'm skeptical of ANY new materials on $60K
projects with "something not added" to the glue that holds the damn material
together. :(
Even though there is obviously no "test of time" available with a relatively
new product, I was hoping some wrecker had firsthand experience/use with the
material, and that use/impression could provide some clues as to whether its
suitability is OK to assume in this particular case.
That said, I suppose my other option is just to tout the "green" aspects of
a good cabinet grade plywood. :)
... hell, I'm trying! :)
Lee Michaels
"Swingman" <k...@nospam.com> wrote
>
> That said, I suppose my other option is just to tout the "green" aspects
> of a good cabinet grade plywood. :)
>
The first is to put something together that indicates china produced
products are not all that green, regardless of what the marketing sheet say.
I have a hard trusting a system that allowed melamine to be added to milk.
The other is to use more "traditional" green products. Part of being green
is not using glues that outgas. Isn't applyply from Denmark? the gold
standard for an outgas free plywood?
Swingman
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0030fadb$0$23794$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
Thanks, all arguments above already craftily applied.
This attempt is to find someone who has used the stuff
Lew Hodgett
About 5-7 years ago here in SoCal, plywood from China was relatively
new and known for TWO(2) things:
1) Low Price
2) Problems
Maybe things have changed, but I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig in
Houston to verify that change.
YMMV
Lew
dpb
...
> This attempt is to find someone who has used the stuff
As noted, all I have is the experience/impressions recounted in FHB
article on using it. I wasn't muchly interested so remember little --
do recall it was used in the particular project for precisely the same
reason(s) but don't recall anything about the adhesive debate
specifically mentioned. AFAICR(emember), the guy liked the material
itself but don't the finishing used can't recall.
I asked one of the two locals here when I ran into him at the donut shop
a couple hours ago--he's not had any call for it, so no input there,
either, sorry.
--
Swingman
> I asked one of the two locals here when I ran into him at the donut shop a
> couple hours ago--he's not had any call for it, so no input there, either,
> sorry.
Thanks ... I do appreciate your effort. Mighty nice of you.
The saving grace ... One thing I've learned when dealing with customers and
green building materials the last few years is how you can gauge their
commitment to same by how long it takes them to utter the fatal, to the
concept, words:
"Can we find something a bit cheaper?"
:)
Just got off the phone with a supplier in CA who sells a urea-formaldehyde
free, bamboo plywood like the customer wants ... $290/sheet for 3/4" x 4' x
8', plus shipping, and it weighs in at +/- 85lb a sheet.
We'll see .... <eg>
Swingman
"Lew Hodgett" wrote
LOL ... what I been thinking. :)
dpb
...
> Thanks ... I do appreciate your effort. Mighty nice of you.
>
> The saving grace ... One thing I've learned when dealing with customers and
> green building materials the last few years is how you can gauge their
> commitment to same by how long it takes them to utter the fatal, to the
> concept, words:
>
> "Can we find something a bit cheaper?"
>
> :)
>
> Just got off the phone with a supplier in CA who sells a urea-formaldehyde
> free, bamboo plywood like the customer wants ... $290/sheet for 3/4" x 4' x
> 8', plus shipping, and it weighs in at +/- 85lb a sheet.
>
> We'll see .... <eg>
Was no trouble and glad to do it...was curious (marginally :) ) about
the answer if he had had any experience. He just finished a contract
job for us on the church parsonage--nothing fancy there; we're about
broke and if had known what was coming in the markets would probably
have held off doing anything...
Fortunately, the green theeng hadn't yet risen it's head to any
significance before I quit the remodel/refurb stuff and what we were
doing (antebellum restorations from dilapidated rentals back to single
or at most two-family residentials) the work called almost exclusively
for traditional construction/styles. Not to the extent for most of
having to live up to National Register standards, but did a couple of
those too...
I don't think I'd have the patience for the current customer for the
most part...Despite grain markets' recent retrenchment, think I'm better
off back on the farm. :)
Good luck w/ it--be interesting to hear what you think if it were to go
that way.
--
Pat Barber
"It's hard being green" ???
From those numbers, it's a little pricey
being green.
Gerald Ross
> No experience, but here is some info:
>
> http://www.plyboo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=218
>
outlets in my kitchen were unsightly!.
> I didn't even know it existed....
>
> Swingman wrote:
>> No conjecture, please.
>>
>> Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen
>> cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it,
>> stained, or otherwise finished it?
>>
>> Any experience with this material welcome.
>>
>> Thanks ...
>>
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA
A Lot of people mistake their
imagination for their memory.
Upscale
"Gerald Ross" <gwa...@comsouth.net> wrote in message
> I wonder where the photo of the cabinets was made. And I thought the
> outlets in my kitchen were unsightly!.
What? You don't like the industrial look? :)
CW
sheets of plywood can you get in a shipping container? I would say shipping
is rather cheap. I'd also say that the importer is making a killing if this
stuff sells.
"Stuart" <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5003e4c6...@argonet.co.uk...
> In article <0030fadb$0$23794$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> Lee Michaels <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > The first is to put something together that indicates china produced
> > products are not all that green, regardless of what the marketing sheet
> > say.
>
> For a start there's the shipping. It's a lot of miles from China to The UK
> or the US.
>
> --
> Stuart Winsor
>
> Don't miss the Risc OS Christmas show
> http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/mug/show08/MUGshow.html
J T
thusly:
No conjecture, please.
Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen
cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it,
stained, or otherwise finished it?
Any experience with this material welcome.
Thanks ...
You'll never go wrong with painting them yellow. Unless if's after
Labor Day.
JOAT
Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise
violence.
- Mohandas Gandhi
Mark & Juanita
On the plus side, the more people go for this kind of stuff, the more real
wood it leaves for the rest of us. ;-)
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
Swingman
> Didn't Kermit the frog say something about
> "It's hard being green" ???
>
> From those numbers, it's a little pricey
> being green.
Here's something for Kermit to ponder ... apparently ALL of Columbia Forest
Products plywood, the supplier for Home Depot last I heard, is now
"formaldehyde free":
http://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/products/prodpb.aspx
I'm assuming they have a higher grade plywood than that sold in HD and have
a call into one of the three local suppliers to assess that (other than HD,
which may be able to order it).
If this is indeed the case, and since the client has subsequently advised
that they are most concerned about out gassing over sustainability, and
since they have bamboo, along with her fallback wood choices, we may be
looking at a fit somewhere.
... besides, it'd be a real hoot saying the plywood for this project "came
from HD." :)
Swingman
"J T"
(Swingman) doth query
> thusly:
> No conjecture, please.
> Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen
> cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it,
> stained, or otherwise finished it?
> Any experience with this material welcome.
> Thanks ...
>
> You'll never go wrong with painting them yellow. Unless if's after
> Labor Day.
LOL! ... hey, Bubba, that sure was a purty poem you posted over in ABPW!!
:)
LD
news:C8KdnZ4R6tK82LbU...@giganews.com...
> No conjecture, please.
>
> Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen
> cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it,
> stained, or otherwise finished it?
>
> Any experience with this material welcome.
>
> Thanks ...
>
The glue will be Cat Pee based. It will outgas for a thousand years. The
kitchen will be declared a Superfund Site and even escapees from FEMA
trailers will not enter it.
nailsh...@aol.com
> "Can we find something a bit cheaper?"
Kinda where the rubber meets the road on any project, eh?
Robert
Leon
I understand that it grows rather quickly, perhaps you could garden some up
for the job and reeeeeely be green. ;~)
That aside, labor pricing should probably be higher to cover the added
expense of cutting plugs to cover screw holes etc. I doubt you would want
to putty bamboo and I have never seen remade bamboo plugs.
If you go that route, the bamboo, you will probably have an audience
including me.
charlie
> In article <D9-dnXRn-YW-ELHU...@earthlink.com>,
> CW <cma...@earthl.net> wrote:
>> It costs about $6000.00 to ship a container from China to the US. How
>> many sheets of plywood can you get in a shipping container? I would say
>> shipping is rather cheap. I'd also say that the importer is making a
>> killing if this stuff sells.
>
>
> How much fuel does your ship use - per container mile if you like.
> How much CO2 does that put into the atmosphere compared to using plywood
> made locally.
>
> --
> Stuart Winsor
how much plywood is made locally in the US?
Swingman
"charlie" <charlie...@nospam.stratus.com> wrote
> how much plywood is made locally in the US?
U.S. Forest Products
Annual Market Review and Prospects,
2005-2008
James L. Howard
Rebecca Westby
"Hardwood plywood production, including core material such as softwood
plywood and OSB,
was estimated at 1.6 million cubic meters in 2007, down from 2006
production. Hardwood
plywood imports increased 13.8% in 2007 rising to 4.8 million cubic meters
when compared
with 2006.
Softwood plywood production was 10.8 million cubic meters in 2007, according
to APA-The
Engineered Wood Association (2007). This level of production was 8.8% below
2006. The
volume of softwood plywood production fell throughout the 1990s, and the
decline has
continued through 2007. Softwood plywood production for the first 5 months
of 2008 decreased
by 14.7% compared with the first 5 months of 2007. The APA-The Engineered
Wood
Association's forecast that plywood production would decrease in 2008 is
supported by the
decline in production during the first 5 months of this year. Softwood
plywood imports
decreased in 2007 by 41% compared with 2006 data, while softwood plywood
exports increased
the first 5 months of 2008 by 40.3%. Plywood exports to Canada increased by
60% during the
first 5 months of 2008 compared to a year earlier, and plywood imports from
Canada decreased
35%. Apparent consumption of softwood plywood is expected to decrease in
2008."
charlie
thanks. looks like demand is way down.
however, the pertinent keyword is local. none of that is local to me, nor to
the OP who is in texas.
Pat Barber
http://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/products/prodbam.aspx
They want to start selling us grass disguised as hardwood
plywood.
I still want to see a sheet or two of this stuff. Might be
the new wave in building materials.
Lew Hodgett
> Living in the UK I have absolutly no idea but you appear to have
> plenty of
> timber.
Perhaps a few comparisons will help.
Population:
UK: 50-60 Million
US: 310+ Million
Canada: Approaching 30 million (90% live within 30 miles of US border)
Land Mass:
Don't have the numbers handy, but US operates daily across 3 time
zones not including Alaska, Hawaii,
Canada operates across 10-11 time zones. (Granted Canada's high
latitudes have something to do with this)
US plywood mfg source of lumber:
NorthWestern US and Western Canada which combined is probably at least
2-4 times the size of the UK as a guess, subject to confirmation.
Lew
FrozenNorth
> "Stuart" wrote:
>
>> Living in the UK I have absolutly no idea but you appear to have
>> plenty of
>> timber.
>
> Perhaps a few comparisons will help.
>
> Population:
>
> UK: 50-60 Million
> US: 310+ Million
> Canada: Approaching 30 million (90% live within 30 miles of US border)
>
Over 33 Million
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/ca.html
> Land Mass:
>
> Don't have the numbers handy, but US operates daily across 3 time
> zones not including Alaska, Hawaii,
Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, I count 4.
>
> Canada operates across 10-11 time zones. (Granted Canada's high
> latitudes have something to do with this)
>
6 time zones add Newfoundland and Atlantic, to the US list. Also latitude
has absolutely nothing to do with time zones, it is all based on longitude,
with local adjustments, provincial, state, country borders and the like.
> US plywood mfg source of lumber:
>
> NorthWestern US and Western Canada which combined is probably at least
> 2-4 times the size of the UK as a guess, subject to confirmation.
>
--
Froz...
2 feet longer than a d00tchie.
Lew Hodgett
> Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, I count 4.
Brain fart on my end.
Don't do any business in Mountain zone.
> 6 time zones add Newfoundland and Atlantic, to the US list. Also
> latitude
> has absolutely nothing to do with time zones, it is all based on
> longitude,
> with local adjustments, provincial, state, country borders and the
> like.
Each time zone is 15 degrees of rotation.
Distance across the surface of the zone measured at equator is much
larger than at high latitudes.
Same number of square miles measured at equator requires fewer time
zones than when measured at higher latitudes.
Has nothing to do with the angular measurements of the time zones.
Lew
B A R R Y
>
> how much plywood is made locally in the US?
>
None near me, in the Northeast US.
All the plywood I can buy is either Chinese, from Chile, or from western
Canada.
How much plywood is made in the UK?
Martin H. Eastburn
the country is ideally suited to fast growing hybrid
pine trees used in modern operations.
OPEC owns the lumber and plywood operations.
Sold in Home Depot as I recall.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
Telephone poles and posts. The paper industry is all around us
as well. Power cost is the limiting factors.
Martin - in the piney woods of East Texas
Mike M
electrical primarily lighting. Customers come up with all kinds of
crazy products. I tell them I can install it but I have no
relationship with the suppliers so I can't guarantee it and they
might want to supply the materials themselves.
Mike M
J T
LOL! ... hey, Bubba, that sure was a purty poem you posted over in
ABPW!!
:)
Ummm, been smoking the sawdust again? I posted that in
rec.woodworking. Glad you liked it tho.
B A R R Y
> One of the issues is Chile is exporting plywood as
> the country is ideally suited to fast growing hybrid
> pine trees used in modern operations.
>
> OPEC owns the lumber and plywood operations.
>
> Sold in Home Depot as I recall.
All of my local sources have it, as well as lots of pine doors from Chile.
Swingman
> Ummm, been smoking the sawdust again?
Oh dear, my goodness gracious, I really must schedule some face time with my
dealer!
> I posted that in rec.woodworking.
Damn Windows Live Mail!
> Glad you liked it tho.
What can I say ... being the sentimental guy I am, it brought tears to my
eyes.
BTW, getting any more of them old cars out of your yard? :)
J T
<snip> BTW, getting any more of them old cars out of your yard? :)
Heh heh. Glad you asked. A couple anyway. But the important one
is out of my older son's backyard, where it's spent a few years. The
younger son is crew chief, and driver, on 3 mud bog teams. Their season
is now over, and he got it moved to the shop they use. This was last
weekend. He says it sould be ready for the road in about 2 weeks. He's
taking out the 350 crate engine, putting new seals and all in it. He
picked up the Lunati cam from the hous today, along with a transmission
cooler. He bought the cam for me several years ago, and it's been
sitting here since. For those who aren't in the know, even the Lunati
street cams are considered a bis radical by most builders. If I recall
right it's got a Q-jet on it too, my favorite carb, lve the soud of
those big secondaries kicking in. Apparently he plans on tuning it and
dialing it in with a laptop. AND, he plans n putting a 6 lug Izuzu
axle, with disc brakes, and around 4.70 gears under it, with a locker;
apparently he already has a line on one. Once it's all together he'll
truck it over to an exhaust shop, and then it's road time. Gas mileage
will suck, but it'll be worth it in fun value. The sucker was fast when
the older kid had it, with clapped out 350, it'll be wicked fast now.
If the Cazr Gods, Manny, Moe, and Jack, are smiling I'll have it in time
for my birthday next month. What a wonderful 68th birthday. Hehehe
That thing is going to be about a perfect sleeper. But I'm sure some
dip stick will call it a "rat rod". I'll try to get some pictures when
it's done. I hope to be hauling ash before the first of the year.
ra...@vt.edu
> In article <D9-dnXRn-YW-ELHU...@earthlink.com>,
> CW <cma...@earthl.net> wrote:
> > many sheets of plywood can you get in a shipping container? I would say
> > shipping is rather cheap. I'd also say that the importer is making a
> > killing if this stuff sells.
> We were discussing the enviromental cost!
> How much fuel does your ship use - per container mile if you like.
> How much CO2 does that put into the atmosphere compared to using plywood
> made locally.
This was being discussed recently on NPR. Seems that French wine imported
by ship has a lower carbon footprint than California wines shipped by truck
if you live anywhere east of Chicago. Ships are very efficient. The seemingly
obvious answer can be wrong. So it may depend on how far the truck has to
travel from port to jobsite vs. mill to jobsite.
Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.