Is it worth a career change?
Never Enough Money
of same for almost 30 years. I feel it's time for a change but still
have to pay a mortgage and 3 kids in college.
I'd love to open a Woodcrat store. Does anyone have any idea how much I
could take home? I know it depends on location, location, location, and
other things like the qulaity of help, etc. But are we talking $40K and
that's a struggle or $400K? What should be my expectations?
bf
I know someone who runs another woodworking store. He's been
established for quite some time. I don't know exactly what he makes,
but it's definitely not 400k.. He says he's "surviving". One
interesting thing he told me was that since most of the big machines
(tablesaws, etc) have gone to China, the margins have evaporated. Every
year, the cost of fuel and steel goes up, and they have less margin.
His store has the 10% of Jet/Delta/etc days once a year. He told me
that many customers are not impressed, making comments like "that
doesn't even cover tax".. but he told me that the only way they are
able to do those sales is by having Delta absorb 5% of the discount..
in other words, they don't even make a 10% margin on the machines.
He said they make a decent margin on accessories.
So basically, you definitely aren't going to get rich off it. If I was
you, I'd look around the other woodworking stores locally and see what
kind of volume they do (look to see how busy they are). Since so many
people buy woodworking stuff online now, I think it would be very
difficult to start a new store. My guess is it would take awhile to
build a customer base to be even just "ok" proftiable.
If any of the information I gave above is false, it's unintentional.
I'm just going by what my friend told me.
Art Greenberg
> I'd love to open a Woodcrat store. Does anyone have any idea how much I
> could take home? I know it depends on location, location, location, and
> other things like the qulaity of help, etc. But are we talking $40K and
> that's a struggle or $400K? What should be my expectations?
I considered that, too. I was serious enough about it that I went to
Parkersburg for a day for the official presentation for prospective
franchisees. Most of what I learned is restricted, so I can't share numbers
and such. But, if you're able to survive lean times while business ramps up,
which could take a few years, and you can come up with the capitol needed to
start up and carry you through that, the potential exists to earn a reasonable
income. You *will* have to work your a** off, I expect.
Your best source of information will be Woodcraft. Call Bill Caroll at
Woodcraft HQ (800-344-3348), and get the skinny from him. He's a really nice
guy, and he won't lead you astray.
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
Pop`
Wow. No offense, but the mere fact that you asked the question indicates
you have better not do it. It's going to take a substantial cash outlay to
get started and profits won't be realized as quickly as you need them, maybe
never. You can't just put up a sign and start making money - it doesn't
work that way.
Now, if you plan to keep your "day job", then it might be worth trying
out, just to see how it feels and what prospects, advertising, rent,
storage, insurance, fuel, taxes, etc etc etc look like. Believe me, being
your own boss is going to take a LOT more work than putting your
straight-40/week.
I'd save it for when the kids are thru college at least, and you have at
least three year's salary put away that you won't have to spend on the
business so you can be sure to survive until it'll support you, if it ever
does.
Also don't neglect your age; leaving now might make it hard to go back,
and even if you do, it won't likely be for your current wages since you'll
be starting all over again.
Pop
Pop1
Morris Dovey
1164995682.3...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com) said:
There used to be a Woodcraft store down a block and across the street.
I gather that the entry fee is much closer to the $400K number than
$40K - and that the franchisee has very little control over what or
how much is stocked. It sounded to me as if deep pockets were a
definite requirement.
Even so, about a year ago the store was closed because the owner's
pockets weren't deep enough. I've missed it - the prices weren't
fantastic; but the store was convenient and the staff was savvy and
always helpful. Enough so that I've made an effort to keep in touch
with them since.
On the other hand, if you use the time while the kids are in school to
plan the next phase of your life, then (graduation) might be a good
time to make a well-planned change and open your own woodcraft (lower
case intentional) store - but I wouldn't expect the entry fee to be
small nor the net ROI to be very high.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
Never Enough Money
listened to the video on the Woodcraft website regarding their
franchise - they say average investment is $500K with owner putting in
$150). I have two rental houses I'd have to sell to get that and would
have to pay some hefty tax on my profits. I certainly don't have years
to build a business, I darn well better be making money the very first
day.
Note to self: buy a powerball ticket tonight.
Todd the wood junkie
Save your money. Retail is a hard, hard way to make money. If you are
just looking for a change in what you do, try fine carpentry. Your
overhead is low, your rates are good, and your risk is substantially
less. If you have decent people skills, know who can afford your
rates, and know how to sell 'trust' then you will do ok.
After you have gained some experience, and possibly some associates,
take that down payment you were going to blow on a franchise, put it
down on an old house in a good area then flip it for profit. You won't
make a ton of money, but it's steady work, and you are in control.
My 2 pennies
marks...@yahoo.com
In my area its about 40 miles to a specialist store like woodcraft.
To get to it I pass close to a menards, Fleet Farm , Home Depot and a
Harbor Freight place.
That usually means its got to something really special for me to stop ,
and I shop online now for the best prices.
If your kids were out of college and you had a small pension fund and
your house was paid for , I would say go for a retail store , it could
take you to retirement .
Never Enough Money
forst month to pay expenses. Otherwise why even do a franchise?
My brother is in the convenience store business and he makes money day
1 -- by that I mean, the income pays the rent, stock, loan payment, and
labor. There's a little left for him.
mjmwa...@gmail.com
Never Enough Money
> I'd love to open a Woodcrat store. Does anyone have any idea how much I
> could take home? I know it depends on location, location, location, and
> other things like the qulaity of help, etc. But are we talking $40K and
> that's a struggle or $400K? What should be my expectations?
I echo the other sentiments here. If you really want to do this, you
should
have a good plan. Speak with a financial advisor and look at what it
would take to get things rolling.
I had the opportunity to buy a local furniture store. Guy has had the
business
for close to 35 years and wanted to retire. His take home was under
$50k a year.
And that's working 5 days 10 hrs a week. I had to think about all sorts
of
bills - inventory, fixing the building up, etc. I ran the numbers and
figured I couldn't make it
work. Be 2 or 3 years before I saw anything coming back.
This is really got to burn a hole in your soul to get involved with a
francise. There's
going to be money going out the door and long days/nights before you
can
get settled.
It's attractive to think to be own your own (I've got the same
background you do).
Perhaps you should think of contracting work in the high tech area?
Still a lot out there.
MJ Wallace
B A R R Y
>
> I'd love to open a Woodcrat store.
We need a strong 3rd Political party in the US.
Imagine... Republicans, Democrats, and Woodcrats!
Sorry... <G>
> Does anyone have any idea how much I
> could take home?
If you're really serious about this, request the franchisee information
information via Woodcraft's web page. After you get and digest the
information, if you're still interested, you may be able to contact some
distant franchisees.
There should be CPA's and lawyers local to you who specialize in small
business matters, some with great experience working with franchises,
who can be money in the bank when researching the business. They can
help you formulate questions and possibly clarify data provided by
Woodcraft HQ. Good franchises can give you a great boost and take some
of the risk out of starting up, but you'll pay (possibly a lot) for the
service.
The most successful Woodcraft store in my area, Manchester, CT, is
attached to a well run woodworking school. Both the school and the
store have shown good signs of growth and development over the last 4-5
years they've been open, which is an excellent sign. The store occupies
an excellent, easy to find and travel to location.
One important point to remember is that in the end, Woodcraft is a
retail store. You'll be hiring, managing, and selling, not woodworking.
Retail is retail, regardless of what you're selling, and some
background in supervision, store management, customer service, and
merchandising will help a great deal toward your success.
Any retail store involves lots of menial labor like cleaning, dusting,
arranging items. Finding the right staff and keeping them excited and
engaged is very important, as store order and cleanliness and staff
attentiveness counts for so much in a walk-in retail operation. Nothing
eats profits like a dusty, messy store and rude, inattentive employees.
If you're not in retail now, remember that many of the important times
you should be in the store might be the same time that you now spend
with family. Some people LOVE running retail stores, others can't stand it.
I know some very successful retailers well, so if you honestly think
it's for you, go for it!
Good luck!
Never Enough Money
B A R R Y wrote:
> Never Enough Money wrote:
> >
> > I'd love to open a Woodcrat store.
>
> We need a strong 3rd Political party in the US.
>
> Imagine... Republicans, Democrats, and Woodcrats!
>
> Sorry... <G>
Yep, the Woodcrat party would be nice. Their platform could include:
Tools in every garage.
Encouraging splinter groups.
Board, not boring.
Go with the grain.
Use domestic hardwoods first, use foreign exotics only if they enter
legally.
Oil for tools.
Make the playing field level with a planer.
No Child left behind a table saw.
Tool stamps, instead of food stamps.
Mark Jerde
news:2Q%bh.13196$wP1....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
> Never Enough Money wrote:
>>
>> I'd love to open a Woodcrat store.
>
> We need a strong 3rd Political party in the US.
>
> Imagine... Republicans, Democrats, and Woodcrats!
>
> Sorry... <G>
What would the Woodcrat party's platform planks be?
-- Mark
J T
(Never Enough Money) doth mumble:
I'm in my early 50's <snip> I feel it's time for a change <snip> I'd
love to open a Woodcrat store. Does anyone have any idea how much I
My first thought was, why ask here? My second thought was, why ask
here?
If it was me, and I was serious, I'd start out by asking Woodcraft,
and any Woodcraft store owners I could track down. I'd probably try to
get a part-time job at one of the stores too. Then I'd start talking
with my bank. And, as distasteful as even the thought of it is, I'd
probably check with a lawyer somewhere along the line too. Before I did
ANY of this, if I was married, I'd talk with the wife, and get her
views. If I was serioud.
JOAT
I am, therefore I think.
Mark Jerde
news:1164995682.3...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
Interesting. My wife thinks I should do the same. But I keep hoping
to write the next PKZIP instead. ;-) Then I could buy a store & not
have to share it with anyone...
IIRC the Small Business Administration (SBA) has a program where
retired business execs talk to and perhaps mentor those wanting to
start a small business. I talked with a couple of them about 8 years
ago when I attempted a small business. I suggest you look them up
as a source of possible good advice.
Good Luck!
-- Mark
Mike
B A R R Y wrote:
> One important point to remember is that in the end, Woodcraft is a
> retail store. You'll be hiring, managing, and selling, not woodworking.
> Retail is retail, regardless of what you're selling
I'd ask myself this question: If I take woodworking out of the
equation, would I still be enthuastic about the idea of opening a
retail business?
If you answer yes to that, then you'd really have to ask: What kinds of
retail businesses are likely to be sucessful?
I imagine that there are _many_ types of businesses that would come
before a woodworking store on that list.
I know that I'd love to spend my 8hrs. a day in a woodworking store.
I'd really like working with the people that I'd be likely to meet. And
it would be great to be a part of one of those really cool stores. In
other words, there are many 'emotional' reasons to want to do it, but
how many 'good business decision' reasons are there?
Sorry to be a kill-joy - I've spent my fair share of time daydreaming
about similar things.
Mike
RicodJour
If you came up with those on short notice, I'd forget the woody store
and concentrate on the writing. You have a flair.
Or, run for office. If that's your platform, I'll vote for you - you
couldn't do much worse!
Career changes are based on three factors - money, quality of life and
satisfaction. Please note that they are as close to being mutually
exclusive as you want them to be.
R
Wilson
WL
"Never Enough Money" <empty...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164995682.3...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
CW
American life. Business is there no matter the economy and everyone eats. A
woodworking store, on the other hand, is a niche market that can take a
severe hit during an economic downturn.
"Never Enough Money" <empty...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1165000157.5...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Joe Bemier
Yeah, I too agree with the others - it would be tough!
But MJ has a point. Today I heard a piece on NPR where some IT
*expert* was talking about the huge money that will be involved in
data recovery, emails, etc.
It sounds like your jobs got you down so maybe a change -within your
area of expertise- would be more practical and have more potential.
Good Luck!
Mark Jerde
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 20:40:06 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
> <Mark...@nospam.nospam> wrote:
>
>>
>>IIRC the Small Business Administration (SBA) has a program where
>>retired business execs talk to and perhaps mentor those wanting to
>>start a small business. I talked with a couple of them about 8 years
>>ago when I attempted a small business. I suggest you look them up
>>as a source of possible good advice.
>
>
> If not, add them to the resource list.
Yup. SCORE one for B A R R Y !
-- Mark
Dave Hall
required for McDonalds to even consider a franchisee was $2.5 million.
I seriously doubt that any McDonalds has ever made money from day one
since it takes a few weeks of having employees in training programs
before you open and you better expect to grossly over staff for a
several more weeks while that green staff learns the ropes even a
little bit (not to mention the 50% turnover you will likely face from
a completely green minimum wage staff and all of the free food you
will be giving away to try to molify pissed off customers whose orders
were screwed up by that green staff). This all assumnes that you have
worked in and managed a McDonalds for several years because I
guarantee you that you don't just walk in and start running a complex
business like a McDonalds (or any other food service place shy of
"Mom's diner"). I expect that the time from quiting your current job,
though training, building a premanufactured store, equiping it,
staffing it and just getting it open is at least 6 months - with no
income and lotsa outgo. Major time is spent before that getting the
franchise, finding and buying (or leasing) real estate in a viable
market, etc. A short cut might be to purchase an operating store from
McDonalds or an existing franchisee (with McDonald's permission of
course) but they don't give away successful stores and who the hell
wants to start out in a store that failed for someone else. Franchises
are business opportunities designed to reduce the very high
probability of bankruptcy that any new business faces - they are not
viable get rich quick schemes.
Dave Hall
Dave Hall
wrote:
>On 1 Dec 2006 12:41:17 -0800, "Mike" <mws...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I know that I'd love to spend my 8hrs. a day in a woodworking store.
>
>Hee,hee...
>
>You said "8 hours" and "store", in the context of running a business,
>same sentence. <G>
>
>The co-owner of my airplane is the co-owner of a bicycle shop that's
>in the top 10 of the industry's "Top 100" bicycle shop list... 8 hour
>day... I'll tell him that! And he's got a partner and 16 full-time
>employees!
I thought the same thing. More likely you might get to spend 8 hours
a day NOT working at the store after a couple of years getting
everything in order and working smoothly ;-)
Dave Hall
John Grossbohlin
> I'm in my early 50's and have been a programmer, designer, and manger
> of same for almost 30 years. I feel it's time for a change but still
> have to pay a mortgage and 3 kids in college.
>
> I'd love to open a Woodcrat store. Does anyone have any idea how much I
> could take home? I know it depends on location, location, location, and
> other things like the qulaity of help, etc. But are we talking $40K and
> that's a struggle or $400K? What should be my expectations?
>
The Woodcraft store in Latham, NY only lasted a few years before folding...
The owner's cited being required to stock large quantities of slow moving
merchandise, carving chisels and hardware in particular, and that tied up
their cash. Another problem was that the slick, high profile location was
expensive. They bled cash until they couldn't bleed any more...
For me personally, their product mix didn't offer much of interest for a
walk in store--Woodworkers Warehouse was far more interesting. ;~)
Additionally, the things that did appeal to me tended to be very pricy
compared to other retailers prices. As a specialty mail order catalog
business Woodcraft looks just dandy but even in an area as big as
Albany/Schenectady/Troy, NY the store wasn't viable. It should be noted that
there are woodworkers in the area too... my woodworkers club alone has about
1,000 members and most of them are in that area of NY.
I'd due a LOT of due diligence before plunking down the bucks...
John
John Grossbohlin
taste. ;~) Doctored up text below!
"John Grossbohlin" <nos...@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:o15ch.6314$1s6....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Never Enough Money" <empty...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1164995682.3...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>> I'm in my early 50's and have been a programmer, designer, and manger
>> of same for almost 30 years. I feel it's time for a change but still
>> have to pay a mortgage and 3 kids in college.
>>
>> I'd love to open a Woodcrat store. Does anyone have any idea how much I
>> could take home? I know it depends on location, location, location, and
>> other things like the qulaity of help, etc. But are we talking $40K and
>> that's a struggle or $400K? What should be my expectations?
>>
>
> The Woodcraft store in Latham, NY only lasted a few years before
> folding... The owners cited being required to stock large quantities of
> slow moving merchandise, carving chisels and hardware in particular, and
> that tied up their cash. Another problem was that the slick, high profile
> location was expensive. They bled cash until they couldn't bleed any
> more...
>
> For me personally, their product mix didn't offer much of interest for a
> walk in store--Woodworkers Warehouse was far more interesting. ;~)
> Additionally, the things that did appeal to me tended to be very pricy
> compared to other retailer's prices. As a specialty mail order catalog
> business Woodcraft looks just dandy but even in an area as big as
> Albany/Schenectady/Troy, NY the store wasn't viable. It should be noted
> that there are woodworkers in the area too... my woodworkers club alone
> has about 1,000 members and most of them are in that area of NY.
>
> I'd do a LOT of due diligence before plunking down the bucks...
>
> John
>
Swingman
> What should be my expectations?
Resist ... brick and mortar in that line is fast becoming an anachronism.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06
Mark & Juanita
wrote:
... snip
>have to pay some hefty tax on my profits. I certainly don't have years
>to build a business, I darn well better be making money the very first
>day.
>
>Note to self: buy a powerball ticket tonight.
>
>
Let us know how that works out for you. ;-)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
nailsh...@aol.com
look at this very subject with the very company in question about 3
years ago. Here are the salient points I remember.
Don't think you will be your own boss if you own a Woodcraft or any
other successful franchise for that matter.
I have known the players here at our local Woodcraft for many years
now, and the amount of $$ is staggering to get in, certainly the
numbers floating around here at 400K level are correct. From what I
understood when the local joint went up for sale, WC has it all mapped
out for you.
This is what I got from some of the folks that looked into purchasing
our local franchise. I wasn't there, but these guys are pretty
straightforward individuals.
Price for the franchise and required store size are based on population
of the area where you want to start the business. Certain stock items
are mandatory and you will carry them at all times, even if they are
slow movers. This keeps a familiar appearance of a WC store, no matter
where it is located. Items that are purchased by the home office that
they feel should be in the store are purchased by them, sent to you,
and billed (they don't ask). Their sale and ad merchandise and timing
will be yours, too. Only a certain amount of "outside merchandise" is
allowed, so you shouldn't think it is your store to stock with the
items you find.
And apparently the folks at WC are upfront about the $$ requirements.
They told the guys that were looking at the franchise that they needed
enough additional income and savings to hold on for about 3 years or so
until it was up and running correctly. 3 years income!! Then they
could pay themselves a nominal salary. It seems the real income starts
when you open your second store (no kiddin').
And me speaking as an employer, if you haven't managed, hired, fired,
paid, scheduled, or trained employees, you are in for a real shock. In
your mind you are thinking you will find a retired craftsman, some old
German guy (OK, that's my dream) that would do the job for the love of
woodworking. Check out the feedback you get when you tell that cranky
old sombitch to do something he doesn't want to do. Or take a look at
the youngsters working in Home Depot... even the good ones are most
green as gourds. These will be your affordable labor to fit your
business model. Solving benefit disputes, working around sick time
off, personal time off, employee infighting, bad/childish behavior from
full grown men, overtime pay, meetings with your state unemployment
commission... if you haven't done these things you should really take a
crack at that first as a manager or asst. manager somewhere to get a
feel for it.
Our local store survives by hiring well meaning retirees that have at
least one income, and sometimes 3. We are in a military town that had
5 bases for 60 years, so we have a lot of retirees looking for
something to do that are more interested in keeping busy than making a
career mark after retirement. Perfect for WC. But I don't know what
the talent pool would be like where you are.
And I agree with Swingman on his keen observation.
I sent a buddy of mine opening a small custom shop over to WC to buy
his tools. Pricing wasn't that good, the people weren't that
knowledgeable at WC, they didn't have all the stuff he wanted. So, we
talked about it, and he went to Amazon where I thought he should have
gone in the first place. He bought his Jet cabinet saw, Jet 15" board
planer, Jet 6" jointer, Jet 16" bandsaw, Jet monster dust collector,
and a pile of accessories and he got some free promotional goodies from
them (a Bosch router and a router lift for one!). Shipping was free.
It was shipped to his door. He saved about $2600 at Amazon over WC.
WC was higher on all the tools, and he had to pay taxes on his purchase
locally. On top of that, WC charged for delivery of EACH tool, not
just a large truck and mover rental.
Needless to say he was thrilled things didn't work out for him at WC
since he saved a pile of money. The only reason he went there in the
first place was that he felt like he was supporting our local economy.
(A civic minded chap.)
I don't buy anything at WC anymore. I buy all the disposables and
tools I need on the net. Our local store is hurting for that very same
reason as I am certainly not alone. And it has not gone unnoticed by
me and many of my cohorts (including one that works there) that a lot
of the merchandise in WC is the same as in *gulp* Harbor Freight.
Different packaging, but the same product.
If it were me, I would try something along the lines of developing a
new skill. While you have income, take some furniture making classes
and invest in some top notch tools. If you want to get into
woodworking as a profession, you need to learn how to do a lot of
different tasks very rapidly, and that takes practice. Do that while
you have income and no employees.
Whatever you do, good luck!
Robert
Lew Hodgett
>
> Don't think you will be your own boss if you own a Woodcraft or any
> other successful franchise for that matter.
A fraternity brother and I were having lunch one day, when he announced
he was going to fold up what had been a very successful consulting
engineering business that he started by taking out a $5K loan on his house.
When I asked him "why", he answered, "Because I'm getting tired of
having to hold a guy's swantz every time he has to go to the bathroom."
One of the reasons I run a one man band.
Lew
Dave Jackson
to draw my business. If the franchise is too $$$$ to startup, why not do
your own thing. --dave
"Never Enough Money" <empty...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164995682.3...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> I'm in my early 50's and have been a programmer, designer, and manger
> of same for almost 30 years. I feel it's time for a change but still
> have to pay a mortgage and 3 kids in college.
>
> I'd love to open a Woodcrat store. Does anyone have any idea how much I
> could take home? I know it depends on location, location, location, and
> other things like the qulaity of help, etc. But are we talking $40K and
> that's a struggle or $400K? What should be my expectations?
>
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
Phisherman
<empty...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I'm in my early 50's and have been a programmer, designer, and manger
>of same for almost 30 years. I feel it's time for a change but still
>have to pay a mortgage and 3 kids in college.
>
>I'd love to open a Woodcrat store. Does anyone have any idea how much I
>could take home? I know it depends on location, location, location, and
>other things like the qulaity of help, etc. But are we talking $40K and
>that's a struggle or $400K? What should be my expectations?
Without an excellent location you may be in serious trouble starting a
store. Plus, you will work 60+ hours a week. I'd definitely shop
more at the nearest Woodcraft store if it wasn't so far away. I buy
90% of my needs online, except for wood which I get free or make a
purchase twice a year. Gasoline costs are just too high to drive my
truck long distances and I don't expect that to change much.
Larry Blanchard
> Without an excellent location you may be in serious trouble starting a
> store. Plus, you will work 60+ hours a week. I'd definitely shop
> more at the nearest Woodcraft store if it wasn't so far away. I buy
> 90% of my needs online, except for wood which I get free or make a
> purchase twice a year. Gasoline costs are just too high to drive my
> truck long distances and I don't expect that to change much.
OTOH, I work at a Woodcraft store in Spokane and we get customers driving from
Idaho, Montana, and spots 100+ miles away in Washington just to come to our
store.
--
It's turtles, all the way down
Roy
The "Build Your Own" platform, of course.
"Sawdust in every pot"
Vote for Old Hickory
All problems are nails since everyone owns a hammer.
The official Party drink is the screwdriver.
That should get the thread started.......
Roy
>
> -- Mark
>
Bill in Detroit
> Interesting. My wife thinks I should do the same. But I keep hoping
> to write the next PKZIP instead. ;-) Then I could buy a store & not
> have to share it with anyone...
Mark ... move Quicken to Linux. I'll buy the first copy.
Bill
--
Never again clutter your days or nights with so many menial and
unimportant things that you have no time to accept a real challenge when
it comes along. This applies to play as well as work. A day merely
survived is no cause for celebration. You are not here to fritter away
your precious hours when you have the ability to accomplish so much by
making a slight change in your routine. No more busy work. No more
hiding from success. Leave time, leave space, to grow. Now. Now! Not
tomorrow!
Og Mandino
Bill in Detroit
>
>
> You said "8 hours" and "store", in the context of running a business,
> same sentence. <G>
>
I used to manage a Dominos Pizza store. The only day I actually spent 8
hours there was Christmas day ... when we were closed.
Bill
--
We should all be obliged to appear before a board every five years and
justify our existence...on pain of liquidation.
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)
Leon
"Never Enough Money" <empty...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164998114.6...@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I certainly don't have years
> to build a business, I darn well better be making money the very first
> day.
>
>
Well, I suggest that you continue doing what ever you are doing. It is rare
and very hard to for any new business to show a profit the "first" year.
Leuf
I'm only down a couple thou ;)
I'm sure it will all turn around in December though.
December 1st: 5 hr power outage
December 2nd: Hmm, what's that dark colored sawdust next to the bench?
Oh, it's wet. Hey, it's over at the other end of the wall too. Hmm,
and all the way down the other wall too...
Or, maybe not.
-Leuf
Prometheus
>If it were me, I would try something along the lines of developing a
>new skill. While you have income, take some furniture making classes
>and invest in some top notch tools. If you want to get into
>woodworking as a profession, you need to learn how to do a lot of
>different tasks very rapidly, and that takes practice. Do that while
>you have income and no employees.
Something in the same vein that I've seen working well for people is
cornering a niche market- a very clearly defined one. It's amazing
what people will pay to get one process done. A couple of examples-
Two retired guys used to run an outfit called "precision welding" that
did capacitor discharge welding only for the shop I work for. They
charged $2.65 per part to weld on six pieces of hardware. They've
since quit doing that, and now I have to do it- turns out, I can do
about 100 of those parts an hour- and I'm sure not making $265 an hour
to do it! If you're not familiar with what that is, it's sticking a
special screw in a thing that looks like a little pistol, pressing it
to metal, and pushing a button- takes less than a second per piece of
hardware.
We've also got an outside vendor that makes one part. Just one, on an
old CNC mill. We give him pre-sheared blanks, he mills the outside
edge to shape, drills 20 holes and countersinks them. For that, he
gets better than $20 a part, and doesn't even deburr them. It's a
bargin for my bosses, because they are constantly on order, and the
guys I work with (myself included) hate large production runs.
Farming that stuff out not only keeps production levels in the shop
high, but it also helps to keep the employees from looking for greener
pastures- we're job shop guys, not factory workers.
There are plenty of others. I guess my point is that if you can
handle a little repetition or can lay out an investment for even one
top-notch industrial machine that will run itself, there are a lot of
bread-and-butter jobs that you could make a nice living from at home.
I'd bet that you could buy a nice panel saw, a crapload of MDF, and
cut shelving to standard widths all day long in your garage, and make
a killing at it. Or get a screw-making lathe with a bar feeder, and
let it run while you play around in your shop. Retail won't do that
for you unless you're amazingly gifted at it, and really, genuinely
like people.
Or, on a completely different track, I have observed (though never
really understood why this is the case) that a lot of engineers and
programmers take up plumbing when they change careers, and I've yet to
meet one that didn't appear to be estatically happy about the trade.
Myself, I hate plumbing- but there must be something about it that
appeals to technology workers, and it pays pretty good once you get
past the learning/apprenticeship stage.
Bruce Barnett
> For me personally, their product mix didn't offer much of interest for a
> walk in store--Woodworkers Warehouse was far more interesting. ;~)
Well, I was at both stores, and the Woodcraft store was 100 times
better than WoodWorker's Warehouse. I spend a lot of time and money at
Woodcraft, and every time I pass the empty store I get an empty
feeling in my gut.
Although - I was getting annoyed at some of Woodcraft's practices:
They would give you a 10% off coupon (on your birthday) but
you couldn't combine that with any other sale they offered. I
tried to mazimize my purchase value, but the best I could do
was get 10%.
They would have a sale each month, but often the retail price
of the sale item was raised right before the sale, so the
savings was imaginary. I shopped around a lot, and often the
Woodcraft sale price was higher than the normal price at
another store.
Some of the sale items were great, but they started importing
new items for the sole purpose of offering an item at a low
cost. Some of those items were equal to (or lower than) the
quality that Harbor Freight.
>The owner's cited being required to stock large quantities of slow moving
>merchandise, carving chisels and hardware in particular, and that tied up
>their cash. Another problem was that the slick, high profile location was
>expensive. They bled cash until they couldn't bleed any more...
In this Albany/Schenectady/Troy area there are a lot of places when
the rental property owners think they have a goldmine. I've seen
entire strip malls remain empty for years because they insist on high
rental prices, and small stores that try to survive keep failing.
I didn't know about those requirements for keeping carving chisels
etc. displayed. But that helps explain the problem. I always wondered
about the huge displays, and all that wasted space.
It's a shame that Woodcraft was so restrictive in their policies.
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
Bruce Barnett
> OTOH, I work at a Woodcraft store in Spokane and we get customers
> driving from Idaho, Montana, and spots 100+ miles away in Washington
> just to come to our store.
You can read all you want to on line, but it's nothing like
going to a store and seeing the tool in person.
I spent many many happy hours wandering in the Woodcraft store.
J. Clarke
The bothersome thing in those big displays is that there's usually a gap
or two where something was sold and not replaced. And that gap is
usually where whatever I need today would lie. On the other hand they
have a pallet full of their $20 clamp sets. But not a $69.99 Nova
Precision Midi in sight.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Rick
> On 1 Dec 2006 09:54:42 -0800, "Never Enough Money"
> <empty...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm in my early 50's and have been a programmer, designer, and manger
>> of same for almost 30 years. I feel it's time for a change but still
>> have to pay a mortgage and 3 kids in college.
>>
>> I'd love to open a Woodcrat store. Does anyone have any idea how much I
>> could take home? I know it depends on location, location, location, and
>> other things like the qulaity of help, etc. But are we talking $40K and
>> that's a struggle or $400K? What should be my expectations?
>
I spent over 20 years in retail, owning a bicycle store. AFter my
experience, I want to comment on two different points of view.
First, many people have pointed out the pitfalls of owning your own
store. Those pitfalls are real, not imagined. There are long hours, no
job security. The income stream is questionable and unknowable in
advance. Getting good employees is difficult (I had 11). Dealing with
bookkeeping issues,regulations, marketing decisions, banking options are
all difficult and each contains its own learning curve, As the owner of
a small business, it strongly behooves you to, if not master, then at
least have decent skills in all of those areas. It's the ultimate
"jack-of-all-trades" job -- owning a small business.
You need your eyes wide open regarding the downside of business
ownership. The downside buries more business entrepreneurs than enables
them.
On the upside however, business ownership is a complete rush. You are
master of your small universe. If you prove to have the entrepreneurial
skillsets necessary to succeed, then ownership is wonderful. If your
product is right, your location is right, you know and understand your
product, demonstrate good interpersonal customer skills, you can do very
well. Most don't. Some do. It's not easy, but you only live once and I
think people should follow their dreams if the opportunity presents
itself. This could be yours.
I sold my store when I was 44 years old and am glad I did. I was tired
of retail, and frankly wanted to spend all of my time with my son (then
7 yrs old) and in the shop making furniture.
Good luck with your decision.
Robatoy
On Dec 1, 7:28 pm, B A R R Y <beech23pi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I know someone else, [snip] We
> always kid him that the existence of the shop is simply to stop his
> well-employed wife from making him actually work!
My goodness, Barry.. that hit a little too close to home here..<G>.. at
least I that started out that way back in Sept 2003. But business has
not let up...and I am at a cross-roads whether to grow again or not...
(Of course it helps to have a mafia-like mentality with the market
sewn-up with the suppliers and rigid enforcers milking all the poor old
ladies in the area.
Bwhahahahahaha)
r
Mark & Juanita
<spamhater113+...@grymoire.com> wrote:
>"John Grossbohlin" <nos...@nospam.earthlink.net> writes:
>
>
>>The owner's cited being required to stock large quantities of slow moving
>>merchandise, carving chisels and hardware in particular, and that tied up
>>their cash. Another problem was that the slick, high profile location was
>>expensive. They bled cash until they couldn't bleed any more...
>
>In this Albany/Schenectady/Troy area there are a lot of places when
>the rental property owners think they have a goldmine. I've seen
>entire strip malls remain empty for years because they insist on high
>rental prices, and small stores that try to survive keep failing.
>
>I didn't know about those requirements for keeping carving chisels
>etc. displayed. But that helps explain the problem. I always wondered
>about the huge displays, and all that wasted space.
>
Kind of interesting. It looks like (based on this and the comments
regarding having 3 years worth of living expenses and then plan on a
"nominal salary") someone has figured out how to have employees that
furnish their own money for company expenses. Not a bad deal (for the
franchising party, not the franchisee). Unless something has been omitted
in all of the information, this sounds like a very one-sided deal with lots
of downside risk and very little, if any, upside advantages.
The OP may be better off putting together his own "mom & pop" style
woodworking shop. If he picks the right location and product mix, he has a
good chance of doing well.
Rick
> On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 10:32:48 -0600, Rick
> <ri...@thunderworksinc.nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> I sold my store when I was 44 years old and am glad I did. I was tired
>> of retail, and frankly wanted to spend all of my time with my son (then
>> 7 yrs old) and in the shop making furniture.
>>
>> Good luck with your decision.
>>
>> Rick
>> http://www.thunderworksinc.com
>
>
>
> Your story sounds strangely familiar.
No, I don't think so, but there was an article about me in CWB.
Rick
John Grossbohlin
"Bruce Barnett" <spamhater113+...@grymoire.com> wrote in message
news:yekejrh...@grymoire.com...
> "John Grossbohlin" <nos...@nospam.earthlink.net> writes:
>
>> For me personally, their product mix didn't offer much of interest for a
>> walk in store--Woodworkers Warehouse was far more interesting. ;~)
>
>
> Well, I was at both stores, and the Woodcraft store was 100 times
> better than WoodWorker's Warehouse. I spend a lot of time and money at
> Woodcraft, and every time I pass the empty store I get an empty
> feeling in my gut.
I'm down in Ulster county (work in Schenectady) and the Kingston
Woodworker's Warehouse was one of the best stores in the whole chain... they
actually made money in that store and the manager, Phil, was good about
getting things for me and making sure I got the best deal on things. I
regularly ran into the owners of local cabinet shops and contracting outfits
in the store because the store had the tools and supplies to keep those
businesses moving. The hobbyists benefited from the commercial business as
the store was well stocked with items that sold...
The Albany Woodcraft's business, on the other hand, struck me as doing
almost pure hobbyist business. While there is nothing wrong with hobbyists
how many sanders are they going to wear out in a lifetime? One small
commercial shop I know well of goes through a couple sanders per year,
looses and replaces dozens of screw drivers per year on job sites, and the
list of constant purchase items goes on...
Also, from what I'd heard the Albany WW was not of the same caliber as the
Kingston store which could explain our varying experiences with them. I
think that was due to the options available to contractors and cabinet shops
as well as management differences.
>>The owner's cited being required to stock large quantities of slow moving
>>merchandise, carving chisels and hardware in particular, and that tied up
>>their cash. Another problem was that the slick, high profile location was
>>expensive. They bled cash until they couldn't bleed any more...
>
> In this Albany/Schenectady/Troy area there are a lot of places when
> the rental property owners think they have a goldmine. I've seen
> entire strip malls remain empty for years because they insist on high
> rental prices, and small stores that try to survive keep failing.
I'm familiar with that mind-set... don't understand it but I suppose
corporate owners might have a portfolio of properties and not really know
what a particular location is realistically capable of generating. I recall
looking at an appraisal of a water driven grist mill property that was on
the market for $1 million. I thought they were nuts as this place was on a
dead end road in rural upstate NY and they were using the properties in
Merchant's Square in Colonial Williamsburg, VA as comps! CW was doing about
a million visitors per year, plus the College of William & Mary being across
the street, and other historic sites in the area to draw people to the
stores... If the Grist Mill was capable of pulling in 5,000 people per year
I'd be shocked. BTW, that property didn't sell for the million. The son took
it over and sold it some years later for, as I recall, $350,000. ;~)
> I didn't know about those requirements for keeping carving chisels
> etc. displayed. But that helps explain the problem. I always wondered
> about the huge displays, and all that wasted space.
>
> It's a shame that Woodcraft was so restrictive in their policies.
Woodcraft is kind of like Subway sandwich shops... the company makes money
on everything but the owners of the franchises are often making trivial
wages for themselves. Some year ago there was a Wall St Journal article on
Subway that laid out how most of the franchises did poorly for the owners
but if they owned a bunch of them it was possible to make decent money.
About the same time the local paper interviewed the owner of the local
Subway and he figured he was making about minimum wage after all was said
and done.
John
Lew Hodgett
> I'm down in Ulster county (work in Schenectady) and the Kingston
> Woodworker's Warehouse was one of the best stores in the whole chain...
Since you work in Schenectady, does that mean you also have the monogram
tattooed on each cheek?
Lew
Puckdropper
news:h9i6n2130t2jm4s00...@4ax.com:
>
> His business is retail hobby store that is open from 1p-4p and 6p-8p
> weekdays, and is closed Saturday mornings and Sunday.
>
> Note that the shop is closed during lunch, PM drive time, and weekend
> times, where a hobbyist might actually drop by to buy something.
> <G>------
>
If the store wasn't open in the evening, I'd think it was located in Fort
Wayne, IN. Most of the places I want to go aren't open during the time
of day when I'm able to go anywhere, that is the evening.
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
Never Enough Money
was in Plano, Texas on a business trip last week (in fact I'll be in
Plano till Dec 22), so I went up to Curly Woods in McKinney
(http://www.curlywoods.com/) and man-oh-man was I impressed. That's the
kind of business I now want .... but I hung around on for about 45
minutes chatting with the owner on Saturday morning (a time I'd expect
to be busy) and there was only 2 customers that actually purchased
anything. One paid $47, the other I'm not sure but I'd guess $150. At
that rate I don't see how he pays the rent!
BTW, this place really has much better wood and more species than the
places I shop in Colorado: Diverse Hardwoods in Longmont, Paxton's in
Denver, and Sears Trostel in Fort Collins. I think Curly Woods really
specializes in extremely high end quality woods - of course the prices
reflect that.
John Grossbohlin
"Lew Hodgett" <lewho...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:SQLch.6209$sf5....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Nope... work in the big new (2-3 years old) building across the street from
the county building...
John
Mark Jerde
"Bill in Detroit" <re...@online.com> wrote in message
news:12n4mk3...@corp.supernews.com...
> Mark Jerde wrote:
>
>> Interesting. My wife thinks I should do the same. But I keep hoping
>> to write the next PKZIP instead. ;-) Then I could buy a store & not
>> have to share it with anyone...
>
> Mark ... move Quicken to Linux. I'll buy the first copy.
>
> Bill
Very interesting! I've been making notes about desireable features of a
"Financial Package" for 15 years or so. My wife and I have different ways
of looking at finances and a program that satisfied us both would be useable
by practically anyone. ;-) Maybe I should actually write some code...
-- Mark
Leon
"Never Enough Money" <empty...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1165243900.8...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Excellent responses folks. Thank you very much. On a related note, I
> was in Plano, Texas on a business trip last week (in fact I'll be in
> Plano till Dec 22), so I went up to Curly Woods in McKinney
> (http://www.curlywoods.com/) and man-oh-man was I impressed. That's the
> kind of business I now want .... but I hung around on for about 45
> minutes chatting with the owner on Saturday morning (a time I'd expect
> to be busy) and there was only 2 customers that actually purchased
> anything. One paid $47, the other I'm not sure but I'd guess $150. At
> that rate I don't see how he pays the rent!
I too have been to Curley Woods once, on a Saturday morning. Again 2
customers and I was one of them in 45 minutes. I don't see how he keeps the
doors open either. He does have a web site so I suspect internet sales
help.
>
> BTW, this place really has much better wood and more species than the
> places I shop in Colorado: Diverse Hardwoods in Longmont, Paxton's in
> Denver, and Sears Trostel in Fort Collins. I think Curly Woods really
> specializes in extremely high end quality woods - of course the prices
> reflect that.
If ever in Houston, look at Clarks/Hardwood Lumber. Probably 5 times more
variety and 50 times more quantity than Curley Woods. Really a cool place
that you could spend most of a day looking through the 3 large buildings.
Art Greenberg
> > Mark ... move Quicken to Linux. I'll buy the first copy.
> >
> > Bill
>
> Very interesting! I've been making notes about desireable features of a
> "Financial Package" for 15 years or so. My wife and I have different ways
> of looking at finances and a program that satisfied us both would be
> useable by practically anyone. ;-) Maybe I should actually write some
> code...
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
Scott Lurndal
I've found gnucash to be a useful (albeit less friendly) alternative to
Quicken. It is double-entry tho, which may seem odd to Joe Random Quicken user.
Quicken may also work under Crossover and/or wine.
scott
Scott Lurndal
Bill in Detroit
Art, thanks for the heads up. I had previously used an older version but
not been impressed ... it wasn't a drop-in and it didn't import very
well. I'll give this a try.
There's a new laptop in my not-too-distant future. Might as well get one
that's Penguin-friendly.
BTW ... bad link ... try this:
http://www.gnucash.org