Dutch hit new low

[jeremy...@yahoo.com]

Readers of this ng may have thought that Martin and I exaggerate when
talking about what a sick place NL is. Read this, and see if you still
think so ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm

B;

[David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)]

<jeremy...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I didn't even care. It's made by the same company that makes Big
Brother, which is popular in the various countries it's been exported
to. As well as several other mind-numbing programmes. So, I don't think
it's a Dutch thing per se.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007

[Geen Uitzending]

whats 4 dinner 2night :)

[Volker Hetzer]

jeremy...@yahoo.com schrieb:

I think it's a good thing.
People high-handedly demand ethics and such but doctors daily face
the reality of making such life-and-death decisions.
It's about time people /see/ the consequences of their doings
(or their non-doings in refusing to donate organs) instead of
outsourcing the difficult decisions to people who normally
can't talk about it.

I'm voting for a slaughterhouse reality show. Kids should know
that meat comes from killed animals. Anyone who then still eats
meat, thinking of the animal and maybe feeling a bit sorry for
it, is excused.

Lots of Greetings!
Volker
--
For email replies, please substitute the obvious.

[David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)]

Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 29 May 2007 15:35:30 +0100, d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> ><jeremy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Readers of this ng may have thought that Martin and I exaggerate when
> >> talking about what a sick place NL is. Read this, and see if you still
> >> think so ...
> >>
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm
> >
> >I didn't even care. It's made by the same company that makes Big
> >Brother, which is popular in the various countries it's been exported
> >to. As well as several other mind-numbing programmes. So, I don't think
> >it's a Dutch thing per se.
>

> Endemol is/was originally a Dutch company based in Aalsmeer. It's a Dutch
thing.

You're missing the point- the company is Dutch, but they have a
bewildering number of franchises of their various programmes all over
the world- Big Brother is only one of them. This kind of programme could
easily happen elsewhere- for all we know, there's already an export of
it planned...

[Volker Hetzer]

Mister Bartlett schrieb:

> Volker Hetzer <firstname...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>> jeremy...@yahoo.com schrieb:
>>> Readers of this ng may have thought that Martin and I exaggerate when
>>> talking about what a sick place NL is. Read this, and see if you still
>>> think so ...
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm
>> I think it's a good thing.
>> People high-handedly demand ethics and such but doctors daily face
>> the reality of making such life-and-death decisions.
>> It's about time people /see/ the consequences of their doings
>> (or their non-doings in refusing to donate organs) instead of
>> outsourcing the difficult decisions to people who normally
>> can't talk about it.
>

> Yeah - right - and the best way to do that is to have a TV game show
> about it.
A conventional documentary doesn't cut it. Everyone knows the reality
but a show is a much more immersive experience for people.
Everyone wants doctors to base their decisions on medical reasons
but I bet everyone watching the show will have his or her favourite,
based on what they tell and so on and so will the donor. There
everyone can experience the rift between what they do themselves
and what they expect others to do.
No documentary can match this.

(Btw, I don't have a TV so I can't later talk how it was.)

[David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)]

Volker Hetzer <firstname...@ieee.org> wrote:

I've been to a slaughterhouse. It was quite a ghastly experience,
actually, but I have no problem eating meat. More important than going
to the slaughterhouse, is going to the farm to see the conditions in
which the animals are kept.

[Geen Uitzending]

On 29 May, 17:37, Volker Hetzer <firstname.lastn...@ieee.org> wrote:
> jeremyrh....@yahoo.com schrieb:> Readers of this ng may have thought that Martin and I exaggerate when

.....an excellent idea.....

[David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)]

Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 29 May 2007 17:07:45 +0100, d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
[]

> >You're missing the point- the company is Dutch, but they have a
> >bewildering number of franchises of their various programmes all over
> >the world- Big Brother is only one of them. This kind of programme could
> >easily happen elsewhere- for all we know, there's already an export of
> >it planned...
>

> You miss the point that each of these programs originated in Aalsmeer.

I'm not missing the point- someone 'clever' thought of the ideas, and
then they were exported. That tells you about what people in those
countries will watch.

[David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)]

Mister Bartlett <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) <d4g...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 29 May 2007 15:35:30 +0100, d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
> > > chancellor (*)) wrote:
> > >
> > > ><jeremy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Readers of this ng may have thought that Martin and I exaggerate when
> > > >> talking about what a sick place NL is. Read this, and see if you still
> > > >> think so ...
> > > >>
> > > >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm
> > > >
> > > >I didn't even care. It's made by the same company that makes Big
> > > >Brother, which is popular in the various countries it's been exported
> > > >to. As well as several other mind-numbing programmes. So, I don't think
> > > >it's a Dutch thing per se.
> > >
> > > Endemol is/was originally a Dutch company based in Aalsmeer. It's a Dutch
> > thing.
> >
> > You're missing the point- the company is Dutch, but they have a
> > bewildering number of franchises of their various programmes all over
> > the world- Big Brother is only one of them. This kind of programme could
> > easily happen elsewhere- for all we know, there's already an export of
> > it planned...
>

> But it didn't, it happened in Holland.

You'll see lots of weird and sick TV programmes all over the world.

[Geen Uitzending]

On 29 May, 18:22, m...@privacy.net (Mister Bartlett) wrote:

> Volker Hetzer <firstname.lastn...@ieee.org> wrote:
> > Mister Bartlett schrieb:

> > > Volker Hetzer <firstname.lastn...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
> > >> jeremyrh....@yahoo.com schrieb:

> > >>> Readers of this ng may have thought that Martin and I exaggerate when
> > >>> talking about what a sick place NL is. Read this, and see if you still
> > >>> think so ...
>
> > >>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm
> > >> I think it's a good thing.
> > >> People high-handedly demand ethics and such but doctors daily face
> > >> the reality of making such life-and-death decisions.
> > >> It's about time people /see/ the consequences of their doings
> > >> (or their non-doings in refusing to donate organs) instead of
> > >> outsourcing the difficult decisions to people who normally
> > >> can't talk about it.
>
> > > Yeah - right - and the best way to do that is to have a TV game show
> > > about it.
> > A conventional documentary doesn't cut it. Everyone knows the reality
> > but a show is a much more immersive experience for people.
> > Everyone wants doctors to base their decisions on medical reasons
> > but I bet everyone watching the show will have his or her favourite,
> > based on what they tell and so on and so will the donor. There
> > everyone can experience the rift between what they do themselves
> > and what they expect others to do.
> > No documentary can match this.
>

> Tough shit for the people who actually had a better claim to the kidney
> than being telegenic, and can now just piss off and die, eh?
>
> B;
>
> --
> Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
> <http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG>

perhaps you should donate one of your kidneys :)

[Deeply Filled Mortician]

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 29 May 2007 17:37:00 +0200,
Volker Hetzer <firstname...@ieee.org> has scripted:

To quote GTA3:

Liberty City Survivor - A reality show with "20 recently paroled
guys...equipped with grenade launchers and flamethrowers". They have
to hunt each other down until only one man is left standing.

C'mon, that came out 6 years ago!!!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

[Volker Hetzer]

David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) schrieb:

> Volker Hetzer <firstname...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>> jeremy...@yahoo.com schrieb:
>>> Readers of this ng may have thought that Martin and I exaggerate when
>>> talking about what a sick place NL is. Read this, and see if you still
>>> think so ...
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm
>> I think it's a good thing.
>> People high-handedly demand ethics and such but doctors daily face
>> the reality of making such life-and-death decisions.
>> It's about time people /see/ the consequences of their doings
>> (or their non-doings in refusing to donate organs) instead of
>> outsourcing the difficult decisions to people who normally
>> can't talk about it.
>>
>> I'm voting for a slaughterhouse reality show. Kids should know
>> that meat comes from killed animals. Anyone who then still eats
>> meat, thinking of the animal and maybe feeling a bit sorry for
>> it, is excused.
>
> I've been to a slaughterhouse. It was quite a ghastly experience,
> actually, but I have no problem eating meat.

Same for me. Worked in one for a few weeks during my east german
army days. Took me three days until I could even /look/ at the station
where they cut out the eyes.
Still, it was hard work, and during meal times I was as hungry
as anyone. The meat still went down well.
It helped me a lot that I forced myself to think "meat" instead
of "animal". But still, watching one turning into the other with
all the stages in between was a strange and disturbing experience.

> More important than going
> to the slaughterhouse, is going to the farm to see the conditions in
> which the animals are kept.

I agree. Once the animal is dead, treatment of the body doesn't matter,
but while we keep it we should make sure it has a good time.

Lots of Greetingd!

[David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)]

Volker Hetzer <firstname...@ieee.org> wrote:

> David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) schrieb:

[]

> > More important than going
> > to the slaughterhouse, is going to the farm to see the conditions in
> > which the animals are kept.

> I agree. Once the animal is dead, treatment of the body doesn't matter,
> but while we keep it we should make sure it has a good time.

And it generally tastes better, of course!

[Volker Hetzer]

> Tough shit for the people who actually had a better claim to the kidney
> than being telegenic, and can now just piss off and die, eh?

We had a rich old guy (Turn & Taxis), clearly beyond the age where normal
people get considered for transplant reception, who, some years ago
received /two/ heart transplants in one week and others die because they
don't get one.
So the shit is there. This time it was about convincing, last time it
was about being rich. I want it brought out and dealt with.
THEN I'll think about filling out my donor card.

[Jacqueline]

On 29 May 2007 07:30:17 -0700, jeremy...@yahoo.com wrote:

>Readers of this ng may have thought that Martin and I exaggerate when
>talking about what a sick place NL is. Read this, and see if you still
>think so ...
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm
>

>B;

NL, Martin, a sick place.........the right
combination!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BINGO!!!!!!

[David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)]

Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:17:51 +0100, d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Volker Hetzer <firstname...@ieee.org> wrote:
> >
> >> David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) schrieb:
> >[]
> >> > More important than going
> >> > to the slaughterhouse, is going to the farm to see the conditions in
> >> > which the animals are kept.
> >
> >> I agree. Once the animal is dead, treatment of the body doesn't matter,
> >> but while we keep it we should make sure it has a good time.
> >
> >And it generally tastes better, of course!
>

> Dead?

I see lots of little happy lambs bounding around green fields in
gorgeous parts of Cheshire and Lancashire. I wouldn't mind slicing into
them! :)

[Hank Pfister]

On 31 May, 17:22, d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_ chancellor

(*)) wrote:
> Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
> > On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:17:51 +0100, d4g...@yahoo.co.uk (David Horne, _the_
> > chancellor (*)) wrote:
>

> > >Volker Hetzer <firstname.lastn...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
> > >> David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) schrieb:
> > >[]
> > >> > More important than going
> > >> > to the slaughterhouse, is going to the farm to see the conditions in
> > >> > which the animals are kept.
>
> > >> I agree. Once the animal is dead, treatment of the body doesn't matter,
> > >> but while we keep it we should make sure it has a good time.
>
> > >And it generally tastes better, of course!
>
> > Dead?
>
> I see lots of little happy lambs bounding around green fields in
> gorgeous parts of Cheshire and Lancashire. I wouldn't mind slicing into
> them! :)
>
> --

> (*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgatehttp://www.davidhorne.net- real address on website

> "Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
> Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007

theres a law against that....

[David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)]

<jeremy...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Readers of this ng may have thought that Martin and I exaggerate when
> talking about what a sick place NL is. Read this, and see if you still
> think so ...

You might want to read this now...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6714063.stm

"TV kidney competition was a hoax

A Dutch TV contest which purported to show a dying woman choose a
patient to receive her kidneys was a hoax.

The "donor" in the show was in fact an actress - though the three people
vying for an organ were real patients in need of a kidney transplant.

The three knew that The Big Donor Show, which aired on Friday, was not
real. The producers say it was made to highlight the shortage of Dutch
donors"

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate

http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website

[Erick T. Barkhuis]

David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*):

> The "donor" in the show was in fact an actress - though the three people
> vying for an organ were real patients in need of a kidney transplant.
>
> The three knew that The Big Donor Show, which aired on Friday, was not
> real. The producers say it was made to highlight the shortage of Dutch
> donors"

Would someone here consider the possibility that they made last minute
changes following the criticism world wide?

Did they plan to have a real donor, and train an actress just in case
they needed a backup plan, so they would be able to say: "See? We
_really_ wanted to get some attention to the problem at hand. We never
really wanted to complete the full plot and have a real donor choose his
favorite patient."

--
Erick

"Heck was created for those who refuse to believe in Gosh."

[David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)]

Erick T. Barkhuis <erick....@ardane.c-o-m> wrote:

> David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*):
>
> > The "donor" in the show was in fact an actress - though the three people
> > vying for an organ were real patients in need of a kidney transplant.
> >
> > The three knew that The Big Donor Show, which aired on Friday, was not
> > real. The producers say it was made to highlight the shortage of Dutch
> > donors"
>
> Would someone here consider the possibility that they made last minute
> changes following the criticism world wide?

I'm sure someone will. Do you? I don't know, personally- the original
idea didn't bother me much, frankly...

[Erick T. Barkhuis]

David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*):
> Erick T. Barkhuis <erick....@ardane.c-o-m> wrote:

> > Would someone here consider the possibility that they made last minute
> > changes following the criticism world wide?
>
> I'm sure someone will. Do you?

I think it's very possible, yes. The 'Endemols' aren't stupid.

> I don't know, personally- the original
> idea didn't bother me much, frankly...

Usually, a donor gets to appoint a patient to receive a kidney while he
(the donor) is still alive.
This TV show shows just that, only a lot more dramatised. It's the drama
that pisses people off, obviously.

[Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr]

On 29 May, 16:30, jeremyrh....@yahoo.com wrote:
> Readers of this ng may have thought that Martin and I exaggerate when
> talking about what a sick place NL is. Read this, and see if you still
> think so ...
>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm
>
> B;

seems like they also have a sense of humour......

[Mike O'Sullivan]

It was a hoax folks!