Toilets on Plane
Ryan B
"Anna" <wildfl...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:hg4q0v4f08lepoenr6gqpmlln0rq23mo1n@rcvns047...
> We travelled to India on Air India and the toilets on the plane were a
> disaster. There was water spilled everywhere and there was a horrible
> smell of shit that was very overpowering. This was both going and coming.
> We were perplexed. We asked several friends who have also been to India
> about this and they said it's because Indians don't wipe their butts with
> paper like we do but instead they use water. They just splash water with
> their hands up their butt crack over and over until they feel it's clean
> enough. Of course the result is disastrous. The water AND the feces gets
> everywhere! So if you're planning to go to India avoid Air India like the
> plague (and you could end up catching one, what with all the bacteria and
> diseases you can catch from fecal matter). Go on a western airline
> instead.
If your explanation for the filthy condition of the lavatories is accurate,
what difference would it make which airline you used?
Ryan
Ganesh
to clean their soiled ass with water. I have been to India 7 times and no
matter what airlines I go by, its the same problem with toilets. Get seats
far away from toilets.
Ganesh
mrtravel
Bibbo Smith
<mrtr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Do bigots know how stupid they sound?
Political correctness, and ignoring the issue, will not solve the problem,
make it go away nor make the environment for the traveller more pleasant.
Muslims cleanse themselves with water; I had no idea about Hindus. Aircraft
simply aren't designed to deal with that custom. It's fair -- in a travel
forum -- to warn Westerners about possible unpleasantness.
That said, while I have been told repeatedly about the issue, I haven't
noticed it. Perhaps I didn't use the toilets; perhaps I travel to and from
cities where the ethnic Indian travellers are all Western residents or
sophisticated in Western habits. Perhaps the cabin staff dealt with it.
A Google search turned up some stuff on the subject, some of it rude (lots
with the keyword "Muslim" included; only the following two with the keyword
"Hindu":
http://www.supersphere.com/Zinetropa/Article.html?ID=Angry_Thoreauan&NAME=sh
it
http://www.tolueislam.com/Wadud/AW_food_1.htm
("The strictest ritual demands that cleansing should take place under
running water. It fills a Muslim with disgust to plunge into a bathtub and
bathe in the dirt and pollution of his own body. After defecation and
urination, Muslims always use sufficient water to cleanse their persons. As
said already, cleansing with sand is the second alternative in case of the
non-availability of water. The use of toilet paper as a matter of routine
is also considered undesirable and must be followed by the use of water as
soon as available.")
But there is a wide-ranging study of Hindu toiletry (watch the spacing in
the filename):
http://www.worldtoilet.org/articles/wts2001/Our Toilets - Indian
Experience.pdf
Bibbo Smith
interesting article in today's Guardian:
http://society.guardian.co.uk/christmasappeal/story/0,11321,865042,00.html
Learning to love the latrine
The humble latrine is making Madagascar a safer place
Rory Carroll in Toamasina, Madagascar
Tuesday December 24, 2002
The Guardian
Two pits prepared as latrines by WaterAid in Salima, Malawi. Photo:
Alixandra Fenton
It was not quite the validation they expected, but the aid workers knew they
were doing something right when an armed gang stole their 146 toilets.
Once it would have been fanciful to imagine eight masked thieves breaking
into premises under cover of night, tying up guards and disappearing with a
job lot of sanitary ware, but it happened earlier this year in the port city
of Toamasina.
In the field of third world sanitation, you take few things for granted,
including demand for your services; but the robbery indicated that
Madagascar, a vast island in the Indian ocean off Mozambique, had at last
learned to love the latrine.
For generations of Madagascans, going to the toilet meant squatting on a
beach, riverside, road or bush.
No longer, at least for some communities which now see latrines as useful
and desirable - so much so that criminals are confident of being able to
sell them on.
"It was upsetting to be robbed, but I suppose it showed that our
sensitisation is working. People now want latrines," said Angele Rafarasoa,
a coordinator for Saint Gabriel, a Toamasina-based non-governmental
organisation funded by the charity WaterAid.
This least glamorous field of development work struggles for funding and
publicity. Donors prefer building wells or buying food, and newspapers
prefer any story to the management of faeces. Yet the humble pit latrine has
saved millions of lives, and could save even more.
The prominence of sanitation at the world development summit in Johannesburg
in August was a rare breakthrough, and raised hopes that hygiene promotion
will become - and remain - a priority. Simple things such as lining pits
with cement or providing soap can dramatically reduce the prevalence of
diseases such as cholera and diarrhoea.
But finding the resources to provide such things is only half the battle.
Persuading people to want them can be even tougher.
Madagascar is not alone in having cultural and economic objections to
latrines. They require money, time and labour to build - resources which
could otherwise be devoted to crops - but they can be washed away in the
rainy season.
There are also superstitions: that squatting over a pit can induce a
miscarriage; or that an angry visitor may place bad medicine in a pit to
bewitch a family.
For those embarrassed about defecation, the bush also provided a cover
story: swing a machete over your shoulder and you could be heading out to
gather wood. There can be no ambiguity about visiting a latrine.
Perhaps the most powerful deterrent is tradition. Your ancestors did not
bury excrement in the ground; why should you? For some communities in
Madagascar the earth is there to hold ancestors only, and bones are
regularly exhumed, washed, wrapped in new shrouds and re-buried.
"Many families think it is dirty and bad luck to bury such things in the
ground. It is taboo," said Mrs Rafarasoa.
Yet in Toamasina, Saint Gabriel and WaterAid have built 626 latrines and are
planning to build another 700, mostly in quarters inhabited by the families
of fishermen and rickshaw-pullers. As a consequence the Canal des Pangalanes
looks cleaner, and rates of cholera and diarrhoea have fallen.
Latrines became popular once the traditional leaders, the tangalamenas,
tried them out in their own yards and observed no ensuing maledictions. They
also noticed fewer flies and less stench - a common good which motivated
some wealthier families to fund neighbours' latrines.
"My ancestors didn't have one, but so what? This way is cleaner," said
Domeny, 42, as he watched workmen install a toilet under a jackfruit tree in
his yard.
Spreading the word
Families pay up to a quarter of the £85 cost. The rest is subsidised by
WaterAid and the British government's department for international
development.
In societies with few televisions and widespread illiteracy, different media
are used to promote sanitation. In Mozambique the job is done by a radio
show and touring theatre group.
In Madagascar there are puppets: seven youths employed by Saint Gabriel
perform plays they have written themselves.
On a hot afternoon in the village of Mangarivotra, a 300-strong crowd of
mostly children watched a series of domestic dramas: one puppet got
diarrhoea from contaminated water; another was berated by his wife for
defecating near the river; and a puppet couple was overjoyed by a new
latrine.
Ted Harrison
"mrtravel" <mrtr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:3E0D4A39...@sbcglobal.net...
> Do bigots know how stupid they sound?
Can't answer that.
But I know how stupid you sound in context.
It's clear you have never spent the entire leg of a flight on Air India with your feet on sodden
carpet and the toilets fenced off with tape like a bloody crime scene.
Let's hear how a polically correct, self-righteous wannabe defends that sort of corporate andf cultural
arrogance.
And did it escape you that the second poster had an Indian name?
Sjoerd
"Anna" <wildfl...@lycos.com> schreef in bericht
news:hg4q0v4f08lepoenr6gqpmlln0rq23mo1n@rcvns047...
> We travelled to India on Air India and the toilets on the plane were a
> disaster. There was water spilled everywhere and there was a horrible
> smell of shit that was very overpowering. This was both going and coming.
> We were perplexed. We asked several friends who have also been to India
> about this and they said it's because Indians don't wipe their butts with
> paper like we do but instead they use water. They just splash water with
> their hands up their butt crack over and over until they feel it's clean
> enough. Of course the result is disastrous. The water AND the feces gets
> everywhere! So if you're planning to go to India avoid Air India like the
> plague (and you could end up catching one, what with all the bacteria and
> diseases you can catch from fecal matter). Go on a western airline
> instead.
Having been to India twice (once a return on Air India and once on Biman
Bangladesh Airlines) I don't have any memories of the toilets being dirty.
Perhaps you have had bad luck.
Sjoerd
david_dance
I do not know Mr Travel. Do they?
I would say that Anna's post was fair comment. Do you not agree?
Dylan Patel
inconvenient to other passengers, but it has been proven that cleaning your
butt with water is more hygenic than using toilet paper. The water can get
everywhere and your hand can reach and clean all necessary areas. I know it
sounds sick, but it really isnt. It's just like using a beeday (i dunno who
how spell it!!!). You may say "But u get faeces on your hands" but you keep
washing until there is none left on your butt, so there will be none on your
hands at the end. All you have to do afterwards to be sure is wash your
hands with an antibacterial soap like Carex.
"Ganesh" <gan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aAaP9.488$zi2.6...@newshog.newsread.com...
briggl
"Anna" <wildfl...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:hg4q0v4f08lepoenr6gqpmlln0rq23mo1n@rcvns047...
> We travelled to India on Air India and the toilets on the plane were a
> disaster. There was water spilled everywhere and there was a horrible
> smell of shit that was very overpowering. This was both going and coming.
> We were perplexed. We asked several friends who have also been to India
> about this and they said it's because Indians don't wipe their butts with
> paper like we do but instead they use water. They just splash water with
> their hands up their butt crack over and over until they feel it's clean
> enough. Of course the result is disastrous. The water AND the feces gets
> everywhere! So if you're planning to go to India avoid Air India like the
> plague (and you could end up catching one, what with all the bacteria and
> diseases you can catch from fecal matter). Go on a western airline
> instead.
Yes, because as we all know, Indians only use Air India, never a "western"
airline.
And it's a good thing that India just became part of Europe, or this might
have been posted in the wrong group.
--
briggl
http://www.bestofitaly2001.com Italy Travelogue
Susan Cohen
back contaminated planes to the US?
"briggl" <bri...@nospam.snet.net> wrote in message
news:c%iP9.146$9N5....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Sjoerd
"Susan Cohen" <fla...@his.com> schreef in bericht
news:_3jP9.7037$hy5.177...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> There are no western airlines the fly to India. Would you want them
bringing
> back contaminated planes to the US?
So Northwest, KLM, Lufthansa, Air France, British Airways and many others
are not "Western airlines"?
Sjoerd
Christian Walther
"Susan Cohen" <fla...@his.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:_3jP9.7037$hy5.177...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> There are no western airlines the fly to India. Would you want them
bringing
> back contaminated planes to the US?
>
So Delta Airlines, Northwest, Lufthansa, British Airways, Air France, Swiss,
Alitalia (just to name a few that fly to BOM) are not considered western
airlines?
Chris
Rabbi Bernstein
appropriate for Israeli's and others to fly on.
Ed
Ed
"Rabbi Bernstein" <ra...@rabbi.israel> wrote in message
news:ahjP9.7044$iE5.178...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
scorpionic
> appropriate for Israeli's and others to fly on.
Thank you for your insight, you stinky cracker!!!
Regards, SCORP.
grey
wrote:
And what part of Europe is India in (this being rec.travel.europe)?
---------------------------
A truly cool book:
The World Is Already Yours
Conscious living in the real world
www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc...)
John Grove
plane broke down and had to land at Frankfurt. Air India got her and her
sister on to Lufthansa to continue their journey to Sydney.
On the way back from Sydney to Delhi there was only one toilet they
found fit to use. On transfer in Delhi they found an Indian clerk
writing the boarding cards by hand! When they got on the plane to go
from Delhi to LHR they found themselves back on the same plane with the
toilets in the same state. Not very far into the journey they found that
somebody had been sick in the sink of the one decent toilet. They spent
the next 8 hours not daring to drink anything for fear of having to go
to the toilet. There is no way she will ever fly Air India Again.
For those who suggest that it due to the Moslem practise of washing they
are wrong. Malaysian Air Services are clean as are toilets in factories
in Malaysia. It would seem to depend upon the airline.
Here are a few of my experiences with non western airlines. Egyptair
from Cairo to LHR are dirty but from LHR to Cairo they are clean.
Egyptian factory was also filthy where they had missed the flushing hole
in the ground, and no one cleaned up the mess. Royal Air Maroc are very
clean. Air China LHR to Beijing superb. Korean air lines very good.
--
John Grove
Polar
wrote:
Couldn't you tell the "rabbi" was a forger?
Real rabbis don't use the greengrocer's apostrophe,
plus they do not bum-rap other people and groups.
Jewish tradition is very strong on this.
--
Polar
Polar
Not very successful forgery.
--
Polar
Sridharan Sankaran
a situation.
It is probably your bad luck.
I have also travelled in many western airlines. As compared to the
artificial smiles and lipservice offered by western airlines staff, Air
India is much better. When you really need a help, you will get it, which I
never got with western airlines. Anyway, it is besides the point of
discussion.
kate
public air line no matter who it is flying about or where.. would make
customers respectly use tissue! lmao ..
"Dylan Patel" <johnly...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aukc76$76i$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
at...@are.xxxberkeley.edu
> I have been travelling regularly in Air India. I have never encoutered such
> a situation.
> It is probably your bad luck.
I too have traveled by Air India a few times and I have found them to
be about average, not significantly worse than most of them.
From time to time, one does come across pretty gross toilets but that
can happen in any airlines. I have noticed this on pretty much all
airlines I have flown, especially on flights that last 12 to 14 hours
and when the plane is totally full. A few months ago I was on a Cathay
Pacific flight that was nearly 15 hours long and by the time the flight
arrived, the toilets were not in the best of shape.
Atanu
--
http://are.berkeley.edu/~atanu
Ryan B
"kate" <kam...@wightman.ca> wrote in message
news:sCqP9.1651$XH5.5...@monger.newsread.com...
> that is the grossest thing i have ever read.. lol.. i would think that a
> public air line no matter who it is flying about or where.. would make
> customers respectly use tissue! lmao ..
Kate, I would very much like to hear how you would "make customers" use
tissue.
Ryan
David Horne
> Having been to India twice (once a return on Air India and once on Biman
> Bangladesh Airlines) I don't have any memories of the toilets being dirty.
> Perhaps you have had bad luck.
Having been to India only once, on Air India, I can confirm that the
toilets were filthy- both outward and return. That was in 1987, a long
time ago I concede- so on a stastical scale- as meaningless as your
memory. Frankly, I didn't think much of it anyway, because it was the
first time I'd ever been on a long-haul flight. However, my Indian
friends asked me about it, and it was a bit of a running joke, that any
flight to or from India, tended to get really messy after a while. Since
then, I've always rememered that, with a bit of humour. Makes me think
there was probably _something_ to it. Whether or not it _is_ the case,
or continues to be, I don't know.
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
Composer in Association- RLPO
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
Stan de SD
"grey" <n...@available.com> wrote in message
news:785s0vodiv9rdlvbb...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2002 04:05:04 +0100, Anna <wildfl...@lycos.com>
> wrote:
>
> And what part of Europe is India in (this being rec.travel.europe)?
Why, Birmingham, UK, of course... @:Oo
Jerry Hooper
The West doesn't begin and end in the US. You might want to take a
philosophy class one day!!!
"Susan Cohen" <fla...@his.com> wrote in message
news:_3jP9.7037$hy5.177...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
WellWisher
country
"Jerry Hooper" <jwho...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3e0e6...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Stan de SD
"WellWisher" <WellW...@ASDF.COM> wrote in message
news:aulqs7$ot$1...@merki.connect.com.au...
> That is a problem with US folks. They think there is no world outside
their
> country
No, that's a problem with uneducated people. Your country has it's share of
misfits, too.
Descendents of convicts shouldn't be so quick to make blanket statements
about others... ;O)
Stan de SD
"Ryan B" <ryanbse...@cannet.com> wrote in message
news:aule03$re1$1...@plonk.apk.net...
Visual inspection? Or does she prefer a taste test? :Oo
Caryl Chessman
ozwP9.1044$134.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net, "Stan de SD"
<stan...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Your country has it's share of
> misfits, too.
And your country has its share of people who can't spell.
John L
descended from a herd of swine. Another blanket statement ,& about as
approiate as yours.
John L
texboy100
If Boeing/Airbus could find a way to squeeze in just one more row of
seats, they would spend millions in designing it. But little thought
seems to be given to life support systems such as fresh air, adequate
food in the long haul journeys and toilets - they seemed to be put
into place more as an after thought fashioned purely to western needs
only (since boeing and airbus are the only two manufacturers). Indians
aren't the only ones who wipe their ass with water (what did
westerners use before the invention of toilet paper?). Many japanese
and several other asian population do it too. It's a fact that
cleaning with water is more hygenic, but aircraft toilets just aren't
designed for squatting or having a plentyful supply of water. Even the
water flow in the wash basins is simply pathetic and I can never seem
to be fully satisfied that I have washed my hands and face adequately.
Of course, part of the problem arises from the large number of blue
collar workers that travel between the mideast countries and India.
Its not that they are not clean or don't want to be clean, but simply
that they have no idea of how to make use of the western toilet
contraptions to clean themselves up - thus leaving a mess behind. Some
times I have seen them emerge from the toilets with frowns and
embarrassment on their faces which gives me a hint that I should
probably avoid the toilets as much as I can. It's like that movie
'Demolishen man' where they grin at stallone for not knowing how to
use the toilet's "Sea shells".
Axqi Rqvst
ce277ffc.0212...@posting.google.com, "texboy100"
<ga...@surfbest.net> wrote:
> Its not that they are not clean or don't want to be clean, but simply
> that they have no idea of how to make use of the western toilet
> contraptions to clean themselves up - thus leaving a mess behind. Some
> times I have seen them emerge from the toilets with frowns and
> embarrassment on their faces which gives me a hint that I should
> probably avoid the toilets as much as I can.
Twenty-three years ago in Shiraz, Iran I met a US-trained scientist who'd
obtained his PhD in the USA and was about to emigrate there.
He said that when he had first travelled to the USA to take up his
scholarship, he'd never seen a flush toilet or any of the amenities one
takes for granted in the West. Indeed he landed in New York thinking he was
virtually next door to the university where he was to learn English and, in
due course, get his education: Kentucky.
He told the story with the embarrassment of a former country bumpkin who had
achieved the heights of professional respectability and sophistication.
Crocodile
castes are not allowed to clean feces (this job is reserved for the lowest
caste - or for one of the lowest). Now, neither FAs nor passengers do not
belong to that lowest caste of course.
crocodile
kate
kate
"Stan de SD" <stan...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:vAwP9.1045$134.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
kate
postings.. a bigot is a person who is against anothers religion.. if You
knew me.. You'd know that i live my life in much a to each His own world
etc.. but.. i am.. i suppose against those who seem to not care about the
respect of others .. i respect this way of life if someone chooses to wash
in that manner.. but not if it infringes on the health etc of another
person.. i would object to which that lady spoke of should i find myself ina
washroom covered in water and possibly feces.. how disgusting..
"mrtravel" <mrtr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3E0D4A39...@sbcglobal.net...
> Do bigots know how stupid they sound?
scorpionic
Sorry, I'm not too certain or I haven't caught on just yet, but I
will.
So, Polar, you cross-posted to air/aviation related groups, are you a
pilot or involved in aviation in anyway? If so, and if you are a
pilot, how about hooking me up with a jet job or something? I've got
my Canadian Commercial Pilot's License. Hours aren't really up there
though.
Regards, SCORP.
kate
kate
responses.. :)
"Axqi Rqvst" <akbar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BA34A237.11716%akbar...@hotmail.com...
Paul Repacholi
And since when has the UK considered it self part of Europe?
--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.
Galmpton
India has at least furthered my education!
Now I have just one question. What precautions do Moslems take not to spread
disease when using the Airport toilets, where they have to open the door
before they can get to the washbasins?
--Or am I better off not knowing?
Bernardo Craxi
<john_yat...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
Anyone who has ever lived in a Muslim country can tell you that the toilets
are horrendous. Hence the "Turkish toilet" -- a ceramic hole in the ground
that is easier to keep clean by hosing down the cubicle.
Bathrooms and toilets in Muslim countries will have a tap in the cubicle or
near the toilet.
How, exactly, they are put to use I cannot say. Instructions for personal
hygiene are in the Koran, which I have not read.
Here, according to a German commentator, is what they do:
"Finally I even learned, why the Palestinians in the student homes store a
bottle of water in the bathrooms. For Muslims it is normal to wash after
using the toilet. In Germany there are usually no hand showers or the like
installed in the bathrooms as there are in Muslim countries. So a bottle of
water had to do. How ridiculous must it sound for those students, when a
famous German company advertises with the slogan: "Like freshly washed!" for
their wet towelsŠ "
http://www.geocities.com/anjasbuch/anja1e.html
You can do your own further Google search on "Koran toilet" and learn more
than you ever wanted to know.
kate
"Galmpton" <john_yat...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:3e0f...@212.67.96.135...
mrtravel
>
> "mrtravel" <mrtr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:3E0D4A39...@sbcglobal.net...
>
> > Do bigots know how stupid they sound?
>
>
> But I know how stupid you sound in context.
>
> It's clear you have never spent the entire leg of a flight on Air India with your feet on sodden
> carpet and the toilets fenced off with tape like a bloody crime scene.
>
> Let's hear how a polically correct, self-righteous wannabe defends that sort of corporate andf cultural
> arrogance.
The only arrogance I see belongs to you.
>
> And did it escape you that the second poster had an Indian name?
Right, like my name is really Mr. Travel.
mrtravel
>
> truely Sir.. this one is not a bigot.. if you were in fact referring to my
> postings.. a bigot is a person who is against anothers religion..
Are you REALLY this dumb? Do you think the only kind of bigotry is based
on religion?
at...@are.xxxberkeley.edu
It would appear that the answer to your first question is yes.
Atanu
--
http://are.berkeley.edu/~atanu
Polar
>now that comment is not necessary.. how rascist ..
Isn't it obvious that "rabbi" bernstein is a troll?
>"Rabbi Bernstein" <ra...@rabbi.israel> wrote in message
>news:ahjP9.7044$iE5.178...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
>> Indian's are very dirty and always stink. These types of planes are not
>> appropriate for Israeli's and others to fly on.
>>
>>
>
--
Polar
Polar
wrote:
OOPS - I saw this thread on <rec.travel.air> only. Should have
trimmed the other NGs. Mea culpa.
No, I'm just a civilian traveler who flies maybe 3 - 4 x a year.
Wish I could snap my fingers and get you a job. Good luck on your
search. With all the consolidations, looks like there will be fewer
jobs for pilots.
I did go to India with Air India quite some time ago,
and don't remember the conditions described in the thread.
If they had existed, I sure would have noticed!!
What I did notice is the Usual Suspects coming out
of the bushes with "racist" comments about Indians.
Too bad some people are unable to address *ideas*
rather than make *ad hominem* attacks on other people or groups.
--
Polar
matt weber
is more or less upon us. To avoid such surprised, in Malaysia,
Pilgrims are required to attend a 3 hour orientation before departure
so they actually know how aircraft lavs are to be used among other
things....
However the gist of the problem is correct. I've seen arrivals where
the duty staff had to show the laborers how to use a drinking
fountain....
kate
personna based..news:3E0F5F6B...@sbcglobal.net...
kate
<at...@are.XXXberkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:aunnmq$4sr$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...
kate
my first time among a news group of anykind.. thanks for pointing that out
though :)news:7gqu0v094e6vq7bir...@4ax.com...
townes d wombat
Get off home now petal, your village is missing it's idiot.
tdw
bentre
'downthere' after they use the toilet (#2)? Do they cup their hands and fill
it with water from the sink and throw it? That would leave a huge nasty mess
not only around the stall but also on themselves. What about drying off? Do
they then use toilet paper or paper towels to dry off or just sit/stand
there until they are dry? Just wondering how it works..
p.s. I also remember hearing that men in India aren't suppose to touch their
penis when they go to the bathroom. I think it was a religious thing but I
don't know for sure. Can someone elaborate?
John Fisher
Muslim’s toileting practices could be compounded into six areas—
entering, seclusion, the prohibition of facing the Qiblah (which is
the Ka’abah in Mecca), squatting, cleaning and stepping out.
The Qur’an states that one should enter the restroom with left foot
first while saying a prayer of protection. It is not permissible to
enter a restroom while carrying anything that bears the name of Allah,
such as the Qur’an, or any book with the name of Allah in it, or
jewelry such as bracelets and necklaces engraved with the name of
Allah. Muslims should keep silent when in the restroom. Thus, talking,
reading, greeting others and answering greetings are not to be done
inside the restroom except for risky situations, like guiding a
disabled person.
“When the Prophet felt the need of relieving himself, he went far off
where no one could see him”. It is implied that one should be out of
sight, thus doors of toilets should be securely closed. Privacy is
therefore a major requirement when providing restroom facilities for
Muslim users. Muslim women specifically have problems with
Western-style public restrooms because they find stalls with gaps
between the floor and wall too immodest. This makes installation of
floor-to-wall dividers and louvered doors a necessity.
Islam prohibits facing the Qiblah while defecating. The Prophet said
“if you go to defecate, do not face the Qiblah nor turn your back
toward it. Instead, you should turn to your left side or your right
side”. Some scholars believe that this forbiddance only applies in
open areas. According to them, when in an enclosed area, or as long as
there is something shielding one’s body, there is no harm in facing
the Qiblah. Another more accepted opinion says that it is something
forbidden in both open and enclosed areas and it is best to refrain
from doing so as much as possible out of respect for the Qiblah.
Determining the Qiblah in an area designated to be the restroom and
working around it could therefore be considered a requirement when
designing toilets for Muslim users.
Muslims are encouraged to urinate while sitting or squatting and not
while standing since this was the usual practice of the Prophet.
Although standing is not forbidden as the Prophet is also reported to
have done so. Squatting or sitting is said to be better since it is
healthier for the body and there is less chance of urine splashing
onto one’s body or clothes. Islam strictly prohibits direct contact
with urine and feces as these are considered impure. The Prophet once
passed by two graves and and said “Both are being punished. They are
not being punished for major (sins). One did not shield himself from
urine and the other carried gossip.” This explains why squat-type
toilets are still popular in some areas— they are not being resistant
to progress as some would think, but are adhering to their beliefs.
After using the toilet, one should performs the Istinjaa (cleansing
with water). In Istinjaa, water is preferred for the purpose of
cleaning oneself. However, when water is not available, a material
that does not have a smooth surface, such as stone or wood can be
used. Tissue paper can be used as long as it does not absorb the feces
or urine and cause the hand to come into contact with it.
Qur’an forbids the use of the right hand in order to clean oneself
from the impurities of urine and feces. The Prophet said, “None of you
should touch his privates with his right hand whilst urinating nor
should he wipe off feces with his right”.
Muslims have a practice of leaving the toilet with right foot first as
this is the usual practice of the Prophet. They utter a prayer of
forgiveness as they leave the toilet.
Prayer uttered before entering the restroom with left foot: “O Allah,
I seek Your protection from the male and female devils”
Prayer uttered after leaving the restroom with the right foot: “ I
seek your pardon. Praise be to Allah who removed from me discomfort”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mrtravel
kate wrote:
>
> of course not... but in this case it certainly does seem to be religious or
> personna based..
That isn't what you said. You seemed to indicate it was limited to
religion.
kate
been annoyed witha posting i had made.. or someone else had made.. but name
calling or assumptions were made that i felt needed comment.. obviously my
comment brought upon some others.. all in all.. its text and what one reads
or assumes in text will always be open for comment or judgement.. good day..news:3E0FEBF4...@sbcglobal.net...
TMOliver
> actually .. i never considered that until i read the other
> responses.. it is my first time among a news group of
> anykind.. thanks for pointing that out though :)
A clewstick blow for the clueless.....
The tart rejoinders you received were in part due to your
"newbyness", apparent by a naive simplicity of one who had not
traveled far or often (or seen much).
Then there's the cross posting to a shit-pile of ngs, a lapse in
good sense which I've followed simply to make sure you see
this...
Last, but hardly least....
"i" is a lower case letter used within words. Alone, "I"
requires the use of the Shift Key, and your pernicious use of
the lower case is neither cute not attractive.
Read for a while before banging on your keyboard. Emulate style
(which may vary widely among deifferent ngs. Above all, leave
the "Smileys" at home.
TMO
TMO
texboy100
> Can someone explain to me how someone uses water to clean themselves
> 'downthere' after they use the toilet (#2)? Do they cup their hands and fill
> it with water from the sink and throw it? That would leave a huge nasty mess
> not only around the stall but also on themselves. What about drying off? Do
> they then use toilet paper or paper towels to dry off or just sit/stand
> there until they are dry? Just wondering how it works..
Yes, it would indeed leave a mess if you tried to use the water
technique in a western style toilet. That is the reason why most asian
country toilets are made in the squatting style (very uncomfortable
once you get used to the western style, but you get used to it within
a few days). The water washing method does not leave any mess in such
squat toilets (also, all toilets in asian countries will have
tiled/cemented floors for regular washing unlike here in the US).
Most people have to wash their hands with soap at least 3-4 times to
make sure the hands have become completely clean. Eventually, the
techniques to maintain cleanliness are passed down from generation to
generation and it becomes religiously ingrained into the psyche.
Hence, you will see a large number (not all) of Indians wash their
hands at least 3 times even after using western toilets simply because
that is the preprogramming they come with.
> p.s. I also remember hearing that men in India aren't suppose to touch their
> penis when they go to the bathroom. I think it was a religious thing but I
> don't know for sure. Can someone elaborate?
I haven't heard that one before, but I can't imagine why anyone would
want to touch any other part of their body with unclean fingers.
Joop
fairly representative of what most Europeans think about America(ns).
Americans are ignorant, superficial, stupid and are sure that the US are the
centre of the universe.
"WellWisher" <WellW...@ASDF.COM> schreef in bericht
news:aulqs7$ot$1...@merki.connect.com.au...
> That is a problem with US folks. They think there is no world outside
their
> country
>
> "Jerry Hooper" <jwho...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3e0e6...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> > Sorry Susan,
> >
> > The West doesn't begin and end in the US. You might want to take a
> > philosophy class one day!!!
> >
> >
> > "Susan Cohen" <fla...@his.com> wrote in message
> > news:_3jP9.7037$hy5.177...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com...
> > > There are no western airlines the fly to India. Would you want them
> > bringing
> > > back contaminated planes to the US?
>
>
>
Susan Cohen
Please note the the supposed "Susan Cohen" message to which he is replying has
the ID:
<_3jP9.7037$hy5.177...@newssvr10.news.prodigy.com>
This is, of course, a Prodigy server. I post from Heller Information Services.
Susan
Joop wrote:
> Ofcourse there are also US airlines that fly to India, for instance Delta
> airlines/NorthWest airlines etc. etc. also all well known European airlines
> fly to India KLM/AirFrance/Allitalia/Lufthansa etc. The only airline that I
> would not ever fly with is El AL.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Susan Cohen" <fla...@his.com>
> Newsgroups:
> rec.travel.asia,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.indian,rec.travel.air,alt.reli
> gion.hindu,alt.travel.uk.air,aus.aviation
> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 4:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Toilets on Plane
>
> > There are no western airlines the fly to India. Would you want them
> bringing
> > back contaminated planes to the US?
> >
> > "briggl" <bri...@nospam.snet.net> wrote in message
> > news:c%iP9.146$9N5....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > >
> > > "Anna" <wildfl...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> > > news:hg4q0v4f08lepoenr6gqpmlln0rq23mo1n@rcvns047...
> > > > We travelled to India on Air India and the toilets on the plane were a
> > > > disaster. There was water spilled everywhere and there was a horrible
> > > > smell of shit that was very overpowering. This was both going and
> > coming.
> > > > We were perplexed. We asked several friends who have also been to
> India
> > > > about this and they said it's because Indians don't wipe their butts
> > with
> > > > paper like we do but instead they use water. They just splash water
> > with
> > > > their hands up their butt crack over and over until they feel it's
> clean
> > > > enough. Of course the result is disastrous. The water AND the feces
> > gets
> > > > everywhere! So if you're planning to go to India avoid Air India like
> > the
> > > > plague (and you could end up catching one, what with all the bacteria
> > and
> > > > diseases you can catch from fecal matter). Go on a western airline
> > > > instead.
> > >
> > > Yes, because as we all know, Indians only use Air India, never a
> "western"
> > > airline.
> > >
> > > And it's a good thing that India just became part of Europe, or this
> might
> > > have been posted in the wrong group.
> > > --
> > > briggl
> > > http://www.bestofitaly2001.com Italy Travelogue
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
bentre
OMG! I don't think I could eat at another Indian restaurant again.
I'm also wondering about deodorant. The majority of Indians I know don't use
it and the smell gets pretty bad. I don't want to bring it up with them
because I'm sure they'll be emberraced. I'm sure some might be allergic but
not as many as I know.
"texboy100" <ga...@surfbest.net> wrote in message
news:ce277ffc.02123...@posting.google.com...
Andrew Weaks
I think what you say could be said about practically any large group of people. I hope you
don't come here, we don't need any assholes like you.
Jerry Hooper
> So wouldn't they still need toilet paper or paper towels to dry their
butts?
>
> OMG! I don't think I could eat at another Indian restaurant again.
>
> I'm also wondering about deodorant. The majority of Indians I know don't
use
> it and the smell gets pretty bad. I don't want to bring it up with them
> because I'm sure they'll be emberraced. I'm sure some might be allergic
but
> not as many as I know.
One thing I am sure of about most Indians, is that they can spell better,
and have more culture and civilisation in their little fingers than most
Americans.
Southern Flyer
Bullshit. A large number of Indian nationals I know are arrogant, prone to brag
and overstate, and are less competent than they pretend (although rarely caught).
While that may also sound like a yank there is only equality at best. Unless you
can read sanskrit (sp) how do you know they can really and truly spell?
Dave Proctor
<Southe...@cyberspace.com.au> wrote:
>Bullshit. A large number of Indian nationals I know are arrogant, prone to brag
>and overstate, and are less competent than they pretend (although rarely caught).
>While that may also sound like a yank there is only equality at best. Unless you
>can read sanskrit (sp) how do you know they can really and truly spell?
But they tne to be devotees of SRT.
=====
Dave
There are 10 types of people - those who understand binary and
those who don't.
WellWisher
> Bullshit. A large number of Indian nationals I know are arrogant, prone
to brag
> and overstate, and are less competent than they pretend (although rarely
caught).
> While that may also sound like a yank there is only equality at best.
Unless you
> can read sanskrit (sp) how do you know they can really and truly spell?
>
This is crazy generalisation. Appears to be a racial prejudice
tru...@oystermagix.com.sg
<ryanbse...@cannet.com> wrote:
>
>
>Kate, I would very much like to hear how you would "make customers" use
>tissue.
Employ a big black Dalit, trained in the art of toilet paper usage,
on toilet duty. It will be his job to wipe their asses since they
don't know how to do it. And if thery complain that toilet paper
doesn't clean well then perhaps sandpaper would be a better option.
SIAOGU
When a man opens the car door for his wife, either the wife is new or the car is new.
Cast pearls before swine to email.
Jade
"WellWisher" <WellW...@ASDF.COM> wrote in message
news:av3nu0$e6l$1...@merki.connect.com.au...
What proof do you have of this? It is a serious accusation to make.
Jade
>
>
WellWisher
against a particular community. Is there any statistical evience?
"Jade" <rba...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:B4mR9.236220$a8.1...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
kate
never flown on the air india flights.. but.. it was totally news to me about
this practice of washing.. but.. since flights do not have the necesary
accomodations for such practice.. then i would post messages of such ..
something like the ones used in our washrooms about please not putting
napkins in the toilets.. its more of a recommendation than a making so to
speak.. in hopes that while on flight.. those would .. and should they not
know.. perhaps some pictures.. lol look i'm not an expert in such things..
it was simply a comment.. but thats my answer.. and.. i surely would not
suggest sandpaper.. and i'm still amazed at the amount of postings in
regards to this topic.. ;)
<tru...@oystermagix.com.sg> wrote in message
news:3e13eace...@news.magix.com.sg...
Lionheart
phnom...@hotmail.com
thrieving discussion amid, and I could not retrieve it from the
beginning, but I would like to know if all this astonishment about
washing ourselves "there" is only related to air travel, or is a more
general conversation.
In the first case, yes, that would be technically quite difficult, and
I avoid it. But I nevertheless feel I am missing something.
If the question is more general and related to the matter in all
occasions, I do not think religion or whatsoever should be related to it,
but only hygiene should be taken into account.
In Italy, where I live, washing "there" is generally achieved by using
a special porcelain contraption which is fitted in each and every
bathroom of every home. Since we were kids we are taught to clean
ourselves thouroughlly with water using the contraption, and after that
to wash our hands at least a couple of times.
In Italy people tend to be mostly catholic, so it seems to me that
muslim or whatever influence tends to be rather poor and reasons must be
different and concerning more personal care than other factors.
That said, if in some countries baths are on average not cleaned well
(which unfortunately applies in many cases also to Italian public baths
where for the same hygiene reason there is no special contraption for
washing), that's another matter and causes should be found in respect for
the others (the ones coming after you), hygiene education etc.
Hence, I would not start a religion or racist riot even on this topic,
as I have seen in some subthreads of this thread. We have too many
religion and racist issues around to make another one here.
All the best to everyone (for Italian savvy speakers I recommend
listening to the "Inno del Corpo Sciolto" by Roberto Benigni, one of his
early works, much before "Life is Beautiful" movie)!
Phnom
veritas
and I don't go about raving and ranting like Muslims do! (for that
matter, I doubt if you do either)
I then suggest that, in this case, it *IS* religion related.
I can recall an incident when I was in the UK when Muslims demanded that
the local (low-cost) housing rental authorities re-position the toilets
(at tax-payers expense of course) of all Muslim rented/occupied homes
that faced Mecca because is was considered an insult.
Not religious bull-shit? Please think again!
I'm not solely anti-Muslim. I'm anti *ANY* over zealous religion or
religious person who expects me to line up behind them and follow the
beat of their drum. Islam is by far, the worst offender.
veritas
phnom...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Sorry if I my bit will sound partly out of context, but I caught this
> thrieving discussion..... <snip>
Mekon
<phnom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.188acf3f7...@powernews.libero.it...
> Sorry if I my bit will sound partly out of context, but I caught this
> thrieving discussion amid, and I could not retrieve it from the
> beginning, but I would like to know if all this astonishment about
> washing ourselves "there" is only related to air travel, or is a more
> general conversation.
>
> In the first case, yes, that would be technically quite difficult, and
> I avoid it. But I nevertheless feel I am missing something.
>
> If the question is more general and related to the matter in all
> occasions, I do not think religion or whatsoever should be related to it,
> but only hygiene should be taken into account.
> In Italy, where I live, washing "there" is generally achieved by using
> a special porcelain contraption which is fitted in each and every
> bathroom of every home.
(snip)
But not in any of the hotels I have staye in on four (each a month long)
trips (including B&Bs) nor on Al Italia
Curious. How I could be so unlucky.
Mekon
phnom...@hotmail.com
the lines), that the contraption I was referring to is actually a bidet.
You would find it in hotels also, strange you did not (@Mekon), maybe
you were going way too cheap. On Alitalia flights you would not find
it for the very same reason that you will not find in any public place,
since there it would be very anti-hygienic. And for Alitalia furthermore
it would be a loss of space as for all other air companies.
I insist that I do not know and never heard of anything strange about
Muslims cleaning themselves (maybe I am ignorant on this side), but I do
know that cleaning with water is not a bad habit on itself.
And no, we do not go around ranting, but is that such a terrible thing?
Would you kill them for this? I can give many more examples of this kind
of habits for other peoples I am sure you would not complain so much
about.
And do not tempt me on this way, though. I tried to stay ironic but
cold. I could tell of very civilised places where you will not find
anything like a bidet or whatever you would find strange in Muslims
countries (which I do not know why is strange, anyway. Ignorance again
maybe.), because apparently those civilised people do not even feel the
need to have a good cleaning "there".
So. let's stop rioting and putting strange divides between
civilisations, because this would make us see in the end that borders are
not were you expect them to be, if you only judge very superficially.
All the best,
Phnom