Everyone says they want more articulation.
Everyone prefers new molds to repaints.
Everyone likes more playability.
Everyone likes neat vehicles that do things.
Everyone wants even case assortments.
Everyone wants decent price points.
Nobody's talking about Jonny Quest.
I know all these are generalizations, but it seems to me that a lot of the
complaints about modern-day toys are being addressed by a line that is now
languishing in relative obscurity. It doesn't deserve to.
I first heard about the new Jonny figures when I won one in a contest. The
figures were neat, small, articulated, came with scads of accessories, and were
plagued by early production problems (loose joints, accessories falling apart,
etc. I decided to hold off on the toys until I saw the cartoon. I saw the
cartoon. I liked the cartoon. So I bought some more of the toys, and was blown
away. These are the coolest things to come down the pike in a while. Cooler than
Total Justice. Cooler than Sansker. Here's why:
1) Articulation. Playmates-style articulation at it's best, plus full hip
joints.
2) Molds - I picked up Deep Sea Race as part of a two pack, and examined the
Expedition Race from my brother's Quest Rover. Two completely different molds
for the same character. Head and body both different. This was cool.
3) Accessories - These come with LOTS of accessories. The Ezekiel Rage/Benton
Quest pack comes with a backpack, headset, two interchangable arms for Zeke, a
cape, a hat, a grappling hook gun, a skull staff, and a staff for Benton with a
concealed knife. Plus two figures. Eight bucks.
4) Play Value: I'm only gonna say this once. If you love toys as playthings, BUY
A QUEST ROVER. Fifteen bucks at Wal-Mart. It has a great feel to it, it does
tons of things, and it's got a great feel to it. The triggers for the action
features are incorporated into the steering wheel and gearshift. It doesn't get
much cooler than that. Heck, Race's backpack alone is almost worth the price of
admission.
Has -anyone- else gotten these yet? Did I mention the Questworld vehicles light
up with a brilliance that puts the X-Men's feeble weapons to shame? Did I
mention that the Questworld figures are translucent? Did I mention they've fixed
most of the problems that plagued my months-early free two-pack? Did I mention
that this is the first decent real "action figure" line from Galoob? Have I said
too much? I haven't said enough. I just wanna know why nobody cares about Jonny.
Bryan Lambert <bryan....@co.hennepin.mn.us -- Official Wuss of RATMM
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Brak Fact #2: Brak DOESN'T CRY ALL THAT MUCH!!
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<snip>
Your logic does fit, but you are forgetting a few key points that may
shift the balance over.
First: the licensed property. Some properties are going to sell better
than others by default. But what may be more important is how licensed
characters are handled when reproduced in toy form. In the case of
Quest, I looked at the figures, and while they may be an extremely
accurate version of the new animated series characters, they owe very
little to the comic images I recall from my youth. A license like Jonny
Quest is not as robust as say Batman where you may update the
look of a character without losing the feel of that character.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that these are well-articulated,
well-sculpted figures. But my only connection to these characters is
through the old series. The new series has not yet captured my fancy
(yes, I've seen it...but I didn't sit through an entire episode).
Second: Scale. The trend is obviously "bigger, Bigger, BIGGER." McToys
has shaken up the action figure market in some ways. Both Toy Biz and
Playmates seem to be following that lead (to some degree or another). I,
for one, am not a fan of 3 3/4" scale figures. But even so, there are
many collectors who would be willing to indulge a smaller line. However,
I think its absurd to believe that 3 3/4" Joe collectors were going to
immediately jump on this line as the substitute for their beloved (and
yet departed) 3 3/4" Joes. That rationale never made sense to me even
before I ever saw JQ. Perhaps they could pick up the JQ figures to
customize, but probably not just for interest in the figures
themselves.
So, while they really did some nice things with JQ, I think there are a
few overriding trends that prevent JQ from becoming a real bonanza with
collectors. Kids are a different story though. If the cartoon catches
fire, these could be real popular with the elementary school set. That
could spark more collector interest (or perhaps speculator interest). Of
course, you'll probably have to hold on to these figures until these
current kids grow up and begin getting nostalgic. :)
But, in the immortal words of Michael Crawford, I could be wrong. :)
EGM
--
|\ The Raving Toy Maniac Page: Surf the World Wide Toybox! /|
| \ http://www.mdacc.tmc.edu/~neuro/eric/rtm/rtm.html / |
| \ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NEW URL ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ / |
|e...@worldnet.att.net / Eric G. Myers / emy...@utmdacc.mda.uth.tmc.edu|
Well, a very important factor you left off of your criteria above
is:
Everyone wants a toy from something they recognize. I buy most of
the Toy Biz marvel figures, even the ones that suck, because I love
the source material. Ditto the Star Wars line. Same thing for the
BTAS figures (and STAS in the future).
I DO NOT recognize this Johnny or Race or any of them (well, the dog
looks the same). I'm generally resistant to these "update" type of
figures. I really hate the new Flash Gordon stuff (I even traded away
my Dale Arden because the series sucks rocks). And I don't like this
new age Johnny Quest. So, I'm unlikely to buy any of these figures.
And that's what it boils down to. For me, I can forgive quality lapse
in the figures if I'm devoted to the source material. For whatever
reason I'm much less likely to buy good figures on source material I
dislike. Of course, everybody's different.
JD
>First: the licensed property. Some properties are going to sell better
>than others by default. But what may be more important is how licensed
>characters are handled when reproduced in toy form. In the case of
>Quest, I looked at the figures, and while they may be an extremely
>accurate version of the new animated series characters, they owe very
>little to the comic images I recall from my youth. A license like Jonny
>Quest is not as robust as say Batman where you may update the
>look of a character without losing the feel of that character.
That's fair. I'm actually -not- a fan of the original, but I'm enjoying the Real
Adventures a great deal. I kind of think of it as the Adam West Batman vs. BTAS
(MHO, of course).
>Second: Scale. The trend is obviously "bigger, Bigger, BIGGER." McToys
>has shaken up the action figure market in some ways. Both Toy Biz and
>Playmates seem to be following that lead (to some degree or another). I,
>for one, am not a fan of 3 3/4" scale figures. But even so, there are
>many collectors who would be willing to indulge a smaller line. However,
>I think its absurd to believe that 3 3/4" Joe collectors were going to
>immediately jump on this line as the substitute for their beloved (and
>yet departed) 3 3/4" Joes. That rationale never made sense to me even
>before I ever saw JQ. Perhaps they could pick up the JQ figures to
>customize, but probably not just for interest in the figures
>themselves.
Hm. I don't recall implying this, and if I did, I didn't mean to. I really
didn't get the feeling that Galoob was trying to appeal to the 3 3/4" Joe fans
any more than ExoSquad was; rather, the nature of the line and accessories
dictates the smaller scale for reasonable price points.
>So, while they really did some nice things with JQ, I think there are a
>few overriding trends that prevent JQ from becoming a real bonanza with
>collectors. Kids are a different story though. If the cartoon catches
>fire, these could be real popular with the elementary school set. That
>could spark more collector interest (or perhaps speculator interest). Of
>course, you'll probably have to hold on to these figures until these
>current kids grow up and begin getting nostalgic. :)
Hell no. My Porpoise is sitting proudly free on my shelf, and Benton's hanging
from his grappling hook above my desk at work.
I guess what I was really surprised by is that, in the whole of RTAF, Jonny's
not getting mentioned more often. I know I buy lots of Spawn toys without much
liking the comic, for example. And I wanted to say something, mainly because I'm
enjoying these things so much, and I didn't want people to pass it by just
because they've heard negative things about the show, or Galoob's previous
forays into figures, or whatever.
This weekend, after picking up my Porpoise, Dr. Quest and Ezekial Rage, we were
doing the traditional post-run opening/putting together/messing with fest at my
parents' apartment. I hung Benton from a floor lamp, which caused my brother
(I'm 27, he's 24) to go grab his Quest Rover, and pretty soon we were zooming
the vehicles around on the carpet like it was December 26, 15 years ago. Sure, I
say I "play" with my toys, and I do, but nothing since Big Buzz Lightyear has
really gotten me to play with that degree of total abandonment. And that, to me,
is a big part of what this is all about. Going out, not finding a Luke Jedi,
coming home, and using Deep Dive Jonny as a ramp prop so the Quest Rover can
save Benton. :)
But I'm ranting again. That happens sometimes. But the Quest Rover is just so
cool...
Bryan Lambert <bryan....@co.hennepin.mn.us -- Official Wuss of RATMM
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Brak Fact #11: "brak" is also a common Polish word, apparently, which plays hell with Space Ghost-related Web searches.
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>I guess what I was really surprised by is that, in the whole of RTAF, Jonny's
>not getting mentioned more often. I know I buy lots of Spawn toys without much
>liking the comic, for example.
I buy a fair number of McFarlanes without having ever read the comics, but for
me, the difference is that--unlike Spawn--I'm very familiar with Johnny Quest.
And I say to the new figures (paraphrasing wildly), "you're no Johnny Quest."
Agreed that they appear to be good values for the money, and that they seem to
be well-made considering the small size, but they simply don't appeal to me,
not even as clearance bait. It's Turner's fault for not hewing a little more
closely to the original character designs and concepts in creating the
new animated series. Galoob's kinda stuck with what they've got to work with,
though why they haven't tried a "Classic JQ" sub-line for the collectors is
beyond me.
It sounds like you're having a lot of fun with the line, and that's what's
important, I think. Every line needs its defenders; why, I've waffled on
endlessly about the plusses of SUPERMAN: MAN OF STEEL...
David Thiel / Champaign, Illinois 1:1
E-mail: d-t...@uiuc.edu
WWW: http://www.prairienet.org/~drthiel/homepage.html
<snip>
> >I think its absurd to believe that 3 3/4" Joe collectors were going to
> >immediately jump on this line as the substitute for their beloved (and
> >yet departed) 3 3/4" Joes. That rationale never made sense to me even
> >before I ever saw JQ. Perhaps they could pick up the JQ figures to
> >customize, but probably not just for interest in the figures
> >themselves.
>
> Hm. I don't recall implying this, and if I did, I didn't mean to. I really
> didn't get the feeling that Galoob was trying to appeal to the 3 3/4" Joe fans
> any more than ExoSquad was; rather, the nature of the line and accessories
> dictates the smaller scale for reasonable price points.
Just to clarify, I din't mean to imply that you implied this point. :)
Its something that was mentioned frequently before the line actually hit
the market. I agree with you in the Exosquad bit too. And granted, you
do seem to get a lot for your buck in the JQ line.
And I'd also have to agree with what David said. You seem to be enjoying
it so have a blast. In fact, if it stays moderately popular (enough so
to continue) you might have a line of toys that you can actually get
anytime you want. Now that's something to be envious of. :)
Far be it from me to damn you for your collecting choices. I collect
X-men. Who am I to cast aspersions? :)
You go boy!
> I guess what I was really surprised by is that, in the whole of RTAF, Jonny's
> not getting mentioned more often. I know I buy lots of Spawn toys without much
> liking the comic, for example. And I wanted to say something, mainly because
> I'm enjoying these things so much, and I didn't want people to pass it by just
> because they've heard negative things about the show, or Galoob's previous
> forays into figures, or whatever.
I have one of the 2-packs. (I just *had* to have one of those Bandits.)
My reaction to the figures was "eh". I think I can relate some of my
reactions to these and why I do/don't like them.
First: there are no "canonical" versions of the characters. There is
nothing I can point to on the shelves and say "that's the new Jonny
Quest." What I can choose from is JQ in various (sometimes garish) garb.
Worse, it is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS that there isn't a simple Hadji figure
without his facial features obscured by some clothing or accessory or what
have you. Where the hell is the CHARACTER in these characters?
Big mistake, IMO. I haven't seen the cartoon, and so I can't say whether
there even *exists* a canonical version of the characters (i.e. clothing
that they wear often, like Bart Simpson's shirt and shorts, or Worf's
uniform), but I can say that without that iconic quality to latch onto
these might as well be generic figures. Variations on a theme is one
thing, but the variations have to START with a standardized icon for them
to mean anything.
I like the Porpoise and the Rover but haven't bought them yet-- I'm
waiting for them to go on clearance, or at least to see if they will be
popular enough that clearance isn't likely, as I do for many vehicles and
accessories. They look really nice, much more so than all the QuestWorld
stuff. (Contrast with Star Wars, where I buy the accessories as soon as
they appear to guard against Kenner stupidity and collector hoarding.)
One thing about the QuestWorld stuff strikes me as incredibly stupid: WHY
ARE THE QUESTWORLD FIGURES IN A DIFFERENT SCALE?? They are a good half
inch or more taller. Can the figures be used interchangably with the
"real world" stuff? This feature boggles my mind.
As for online discussion, you have to keep in mind that Star Wars has
eclipsed a lot of the market. People jabber on about these online because
1. they're well-done, for what they are (in-action figures :-) ) and 2.
the supply is woefully inadequate for the demand-- hence lots of trade
posts, lots of reviews because people are hungry to read about things they
haven't seen yet, whereas anyone can go out and look at the Quest toys and
3. variations cause discussion and 4. the ability to combat international
terrorists is insignificant compared to the power of the Force. :-) (I'm
referring to Star Wars' HUUUGE mutli-generational market, of course.)
> This weekend, after picking up my Porpoise, Dr. Quest and Ezekial Rage,
> we were doing the traditional post-run opening/putting together/messing
> with fest at my parents' apartment. ... <snip great play scene!>
EXCELLENT! That's what makes for a great toy. Glad to hear you found it
in the JQ stuff, maybe I will too when I get around to buying more of it.
(Which reminds me: another reason you don't see a lot of attention here is
that there is so much Star Wars, Star Trek, and Spawn stuff that people
want to buy that many of us are putting off JQ purchases until the market
for these bigger-ticket lines has cooled a bit. [Say, in 1998. :-D ])
Kevin
>In article <5292eg$a...@news.co.hennepin.mn.us> bryan....@co.hennepin.mn.us (Bryan Lambert) writes:
>>I guess what I was really surprised by is that, in the whole of RTAF, Jonny's
>>not getting mentioned more often. I know I buy lots of Spawn toys without much
>>liking the comic, for example.
>I buy a fair number of McFarlanes without having ever read the comics, but for
>me, the difference is that--unlike Spawn--I'm very familiar with Johnny Quest.
>And I say to the new figures (paraphrasing wildly), "you're no Johnny Quest."
>Agreed that they appear to be good values for the money, and that they seem to
>be well-made considering the small size, but they simply don't appeal to me,
>not even as clearance bait. It's Turner's fault for not hewing a little more
>closely to the original character designs and concepts in creating the
>new animated series. Galoob's kinda stuck with what they've got to work with,
>though why they haven't tried a "Classic JQ" sub-line for the collectors is
>beyond me.
One thing also is that the style doesn't necessarily fit the line.
Many people have an animated "vision" of Jonny, and all the gear and
joints somehow make the figures seem too...techno to me, for lack of a
better word.
A good reverse example would be, would as many people like BTAS if
they were 3 3/4 inches and multi joined and looked hyper-detailed?
Jason
>Nobody's talking about Jonny Quest.
I'll say this for him--Johnny fits into my 1/18 scale diecast Viper RT!
> bryan....@co.hennepin.mn.us (Bryan Lambert) wrote in article
<5292eg$a...@news.co.hennepin.mn.us>...
> "Eric G. Myers" <e...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
I am amazed that someone had the exact same experience that I did. I went
out one Saturday morning looking for one thing and one thing only- Luke
Jedi. It was about three or four weeks ago, so of course I found nothing.
I didi however see the new JQ figures at every TRU and Wal-Mart I
visited. So I bought Quest Rover and Dr. Quest and Ezekial Rage 2-pack and
what can I say, I had a great time. These toys are terrific, mucho play
value. I didn't forget about Luke Jedi, but not finding him that day
didn't feel so bad after all.
Chris
>d-t...@uiuc.edu (David Thiel) was babbling like a fool about:
>>In article <5292eg$a...@news.co.hennepin.mn.us> bryan....@co.hennepin.mn.us (Bryan Lambert) writes:
>>>I guess what I was really surprised by is that, in the whole of RTAF, Jonny's
>>>not getting mentioned more often. I know I buy lots of Spawn toys without much
>>>liking the comic, for example.
>>Agreed that they appear to be good values for the money, and that they seem to
>>be well-made considering the small size, but they simply don't appeal to me,
>>not even as clearance bait. It's Turner's fault for not hewing a little more
>>closely to the original character designs and concepts in creating the
>>new animated series. Galoob's kinda stuck with what they've got to work with,
>>though why they haven't tried a "Classic JQ" sub-line for the collectors is
>>beyond me.
>One thing also is that the style doesn't necessarily fit the line.
>Many people have an animated "vision" of Jonny, and all the gear and
>joints somehow make the figures seem too...techno to me, for lack of a
>better word.
>A good reverse example would be, would as many people like BTAS if
>they were 3 3/4 inches and multi joined and looked hyper-detailed?
This is interesting. I really didn't think that "classic" Jonny had such a loyal
following. I think the new figures capture the style of the new series
effectively, with the possible exception of the Questworld stuff needing
somewhat cleaner lines and less gimmicks. The new series is very "techno"
compared to the old one, but I also think it's got a lot of good qualities.
Heck, I even like the new, Southern Race, odd phrases and all. And the new Hadji
is leaps and bounds over the old one. Jeremiah Surd's a nifty villian, and
Bandit is considerably less omnipotent and more dog-like.
And, except for the hyper-detail, I'd -love- BTAS figures with Jonny style
joints. even if they had to be in the smaller size. I long for the day when
Kenner discovers the elbow. Bring on Super Poseable Retro Batman!
Bryan Lambert <bryan....@co.hennepin.mn.us -- Official Wuss of RATMM
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Brak Fact #16: Few people know that Brak's planet is Polynesian.
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>First: there are no "canonical" versions of the characters. There is
>nothing I can point to on the shelves and say "that's the new Jonny
>Quest." What I can choose from is JQ in various (sometimes garish) garb.
>Worse, it is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS that there isn't a simple Hadji figure
>without his facial features obscured by some clothing or accessory or what
>have you. Where the hell is the CHARACTER in these characters?
A good point, although the Jonny from the Jonny/Jessie 2-Pack is as close to
"normal" as you can get, the Benton is in fairly typical Benton gear, and the
Race that comes with the Rover is fairly "canonical". A casual Jessie and Hadji
are definitely in order, although I do think the two Hadji outfits are pretty
slick.
>Big mistake, IMO. I haven't seen the cartoon, and so I can't say whether
>there even *exists* a canonical version of the characters (i.e. clothing
>that they wear often, like Bart Simpson's shirt and shorts, or Worf's
>uniform), but I can say that without that iconic quality to latch onto
>these might as well be generic figures. Variations on a theme is one
>thing, but the variations have to START with a standardized icon for them
>to mean anything.
Yeah, that's sort of in line with the show - they don't always wear the same
outfit. From the show standpoint, it's nice, because these are just two people
(Benton and Race) who are experts at investigating odd occurrences, plus their
very . . . advantaged offspring. Which is realistic, but doesn't make for easy
identification, especially in the 3 3/4" scale.
>I like the Porpoise and the Rover but haven't bought them yet-- I'm
>waiting for them to go on clearance, or at least to see if they will be
>popular enough that clearance isn't likely, as I do for many vehicles and
>accessories. They look really nice, much more so than all the QuestWorld
>stuff.
The Porpoise is good, but the Quest Rover has to be touched to be believed. I'm
a sucker for clear stuff and light-up stuff, so I like the Questworld items even
if they are a bit excessively designed.
>One thing about the QuestWorld stuff strikes me as incredibly stupid: WHY
>ARE THE QUESTWORLD FIGURES IN A DIFFERENT SCALE?? They are a good half
>inch or more taller. Can the figures be used interchangably with the
>"real world" stuff? This feature boggles my mind.
You know, I never noticed this. I only have the Questworld Cycle, because the
Suit and Trax aren't on shelves here yet, and I've yet to compare the figures.
>As for online discussion, you have to keep in mind that Star Wars has
>eclipsed a lot of the market. People jabber on about these online because
>1. they're well-done, for what they are (in-action figures :-) ) and 2.
>the supply is woefully inadequate for the demand--
Oh, I know. Starting a discussion was part of my diabolical plan when I posted.
Even if I have set myself up as rtaf's sole defender of the new show. <g>
Bryan Lambert <bryan....@co.hennepin.mn.us -- Official Wuss of RATMM
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Brak Fact #9: Brak knows what Brak likes to eat.
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I am enjoying the new Jonny Quest animated series, even though it owes
little more than name to the classic series of the 1960's which I also
enjoyed. It's still a good show, one that I was fully prepared to dislike
but by which I was pleasantly surprised. But I haven't picked up the toys.
Why not?
What's with all the da*n "specialties"!? Space Shuttle Jonny, Deep Sea
Race, Stealth Hadji -- come on, people! This is almost as bad as "Batman
Syndrome".
You want me to buy Jonny Quest figures? Then give me something
recognizable. Give me a Jonny in a black shirt and jeans. Give me a Race
in a red shirt. THOSE I'd buy, and I don't mean the Pizza Hut cheapies.
For the record, I think the toys look pretty good, but Galoob goofed
trying to compare them to G.I.Joe. They're not THAT good. I'd say they're
more comparable to Exo-Squad, an excellent line, by the way. That Joe
comparison and the final result might've been a bit of a letdown to some
collectors. The vehicles and the QuestWorld designs are excellent, but how
much of this stuff has actually been in the show? Some of it, yes, but
enough of it?
On the other hand, maybe what we have here is a toy line that actually
appeals more to KIDS than to COLLECTORS, which is why we're not hearing
about it in here. Golly, what a concept! In Tucson, at any rate, the toys
seem to be doing fairly well.
Ric -- who thinks the $7.99 price point is perfect for Christmas gifts for
extended family members (nieces, nephew and the like).
************************************************************************
Just when you think that you've been jipped,
The bearded lady comes and does a double back flip.
John Hiatt -- Buffalo River Home
Ric Atkinson Birde...@aol.com
************************************************************************
>>One thing about the QuestWorld stuff strikes me as incredibly stupid: WHY
>>ARE THE QUESTWORLD FIGURES IN A DIFFERENT SCALE?? They are a good half
>>inch or more taller. Can the figures be used interchangably with the
>>"real world" stuff? This feature boggles my mind.
>You know, I never noticed this. I only have the Questworld Cycle, because the
>Suit and Trax aren't on shelves here yet, and I've yet to compare the figures.
OK, I just checked this out, and on the height scale, all the figures I own
except my Desert Stealth Hadji (who I couldn't find this morning) stack up like
this in height, as measured in units of desktop calendar lines (DCL's). It looks
like a weird version of the lineup from The Usual Suspects. Anyway:
Questworld Jonny: 13 DCL's
Deep Sea Race: 12 DCL's
Dr. Benton Quest: 12 DCL's
Ezekiel Rage: 11.5 DCL's
Silent Storm Jessie: 11.5 DCL's
Jonny (2 RW versions): 11 DCL's
It's not a huge scale difference, but noticeable. I couldn't find my Porpoise
to see how QW Jonny fit in it.
I saw the Cyber Copter at TRU last night. Looks neat, but I didn't have the 26
bucks to spend on it just yet.
Bryan Lambert <bryan....@co.hennepin.mn.us -- Official Wuss of RATMM
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Brak Fact #13: Brak got a NEW DRAWING on 8/19/96! And ANOTHER the next day!
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